This is a video I wanted to make after Volume 8 but didn't get around to it by the time hiatus kicked in and I stopped pumping out videos. But now that RWBY is back, I figured I'd make this video now.
I remembered asking you this on twitter, but could you do a video of every time Vacuo was mentioned throughout RWBY (from Volumes 1-8, maybe even 9 as it may be mentioned again).
@@ImStrange_ Okay, thanks. I know that, like everyone, we're both waiting to finally see Vacuo after being told about it and hear it mentioned dozens of times!
Either is poetic or ironic, how Harriet's speech about duty is what awoke a new ability within Ren's Semblance. I like to think that her words triggered his anger because that how used to think and act, and that made him realize how ridiculous that sounded, because feelings is part of one self, and is important to aknowledging it, not surpressing it.
Though presented through a less militaristic lens, this is also the contrast between Qrow and Tyrian. Qrow started out undyingly loyal to Ozpin and has learned to question things, while Tyrian has only become more pathologically, unfalteringly loyal to Salem as time has gone on.
It can be. Ironwood let Fear cloud his judgement, same as she did, Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate, leads to Suffering. She let the fear of Salem cloud her judgement, she let her anger over Clovers Death consume her, she let the hate of Qrow, Ruby and the others turn her into something she wasn't. and when she finally realized what she was doing, she suffered not only losing Clover but Vine as well, her home, possibly her family, lashing out, hiding your feelings behind anger is much easier than facing your emotions. that's the lesson here.
Fives: Wait! This is wrong and we all know it! The general is making a mistake, and he needs to be called on it. No clone should have to go out this way! We're loyal soldiers! We follow orders, but we are not a bunch of unthinking droids! We are men! We must be trusted to make the right decisions! Especially when the orders we are given are wrong
Clover's death had a huge impact on Harriet, and she connected that to her sense of duty, thinking that anyone who questioned her or Ironwood was basically mocking Clover's death. She double-downed on her duty because she didn't see the rest of her team as friends even though she did care about them and didn't know how to properly process it. Winter is different because she not only has her sense of duty, she allows herself to feel and establish bonds with others, notably Penny and Weiss.
Personally I don't think Harriet wasn't hiding behind "Duty" I think by the time Clover Died, she was just utterly broken from his death, she was trying to hold her emotions in check but she was also scared out of her mind, you could see it on her face. And so she made the same Mistake as Ironwood, she allowed Fear to cloud her judgement. You can tell the moment she realized that when the other Ace Ops were trying to stop her, she realized she had been on the wrong side. I think inwardly, she is a good person, but she's been fighting for so long, watching friends and loved ones die, that she tried to stop feeling anything but Anger because lashing out is much easier then confronting your emotions. She almost said it well talking to Vine, "Clover was the Best of Us." And now she has a whole new reason to fight, a whole new reason to keep going, not just to honor the memory of her friends she's lost but to make amends for the awful things she did. Like Winter she realized she was wrong, and I think when she makes a reappearance she will be all the much more dedicated for it. and she'll come out of the Fall of Atlas a more mature person.
It's unfortunately another reason why Atlas is weaker than most modern militaries. Modern military you can question and refuse orders if they are immoral or illegal.
Technically there's no evidence that that's _not_ the case in Atlas, but I think when Ironwood started acting all nutso people were too scared of him to speak up. I mean, Marrow did and Ironwood was gonna shoot him in the fucking head
@@bigfatcarp93 Well Ironwood did snap and became full on dictator and we all know dictators don't allow people to question them. Ironwood was pretty resonable before he snapped though.
Plus, if you don't question an immoral order, you can eventually find yourself convicted of a war crime. Nuhremburg set the standard that just following orders isn't a valid defense.
I for one like to give the rank and file solders the benefit of the doubt. We the viewers see Ironwood going down hill since Volume 4 as a fly on the wall we have perspective they lack. Also while Ironwood made bad decisions with the embargo and closing of boarders there is still a plausible reasoning for a government to make those bad decisions. All of Ironwoods unforgivable actions happened over 2 days of Volume 8 during a kingdom wide crisis and Grimm invasion things happened so fast most people didn't have time to see how far gone ironwood was until his bomb threat and that's when we see his subordinates being tariffed of him.
oof! true yet different in the actions they do next. Harriet suppresses her emotions for the sake of the mission and to not view her friends as friends to ignore her pain. Ruby does it for the sake of her friends, to be a beacon of light and inspiration to them, be the embodiment of "Keep Moving Forward". Of course, Ruby's method of suppressing her emotions has it's own drawbacks and Vol 9 definitely seems like the Vol to focus on this for her.
Man Winter's scene against Ironwood really hit the part of my brain that can't help but view her as Doom Slayer during his early days as a Space Marine. CO gives order that involves civilians being killed, solider objects to order, fights CO, heavily injuring them and gaining a new power up later on. Of course played differently but similarly. Just that familiarity makes me like how Winter turned out during the end of Vol 8. kar en tuk until Team RWBY returns Winter.
When Clover died, everything changed. For Atlas, Ironwood, and the Ace Ops. Harriet, I believe, was afraid of feeling again in Volume 8. Thought that maybe caring for the team was a mistake. Then she… shut people out. Not allowing personal feelings to jeopardize anything ever again. “Mission comes first.” But that’s wrong, too. I think, that God Almighty, would allow us to feel for our friends. For our enemies. No matter what, no matter who or what we lose in the end. Without our humanity, without feelings, we lose everything. Feelings are not a factor for failure, but empower us to do the right thing.
You're right, soldiers are many things. But are not truly machines, soldiers may be trained to not let emotions get in the way of the mission, but not at the expense of their humanity.
What I find interesting is that in the opening of volume 8, we see Harriet and Qrow on the same "petal" of Clover's badge, and in the volume itself we see her demand that Qrow return it to her when she discovers he has it. and as this video shows, Harriet never questions clover's way of thinking even when Vine does. If you ask me, this sounds like very strong evidence that Harriet had some kind of connection with Clover that's somehow similar to the connection he had with Qrow.
The Volume 8 Opening has a few subtle references that only become fully clear later on in the volume. Another good example is the closeup on Nora's uncertain face as a lightning bolt cuts across, thereby foreshadowing Nora's character arc that volume.
I'm sorry but with Volume 10 not greenlit as of yet and confirmation that volume 9 is just the island we won't see them until possibly 2 years once again. But we will see Vacuo no doubt in the post credit
@@sonicspeedproductions2.04 was there a confirmation of just the island though? I think it was a confirmation that RWBY won't get out of the island until the Volume 9 ends, but it doesn't mean we don't get to see Vacuo. Plus I remember that two years ago Arryn(animator) posted a sneak peak of Volume 9 with Vacuo desert showing.
If you wanna follow orders without having to feel or doubt the order, might as well be a machine. This was the thought that kept going through my head about the Ace Ops and their decision to follow orders even after Ironwood shot a council member right in front of everyone. I get they don’t want to get shot but you have to question morale at this point.
So when the inevitable tribunal comes to pass and she has to answer for the thousands of lives she knowing killed. She'll simply give the excuse "I was just following orders. I was doing my duty."
Winter awknowledged her feelings and still used her critical thinking and ended up questioning if what she was doing was right, and she noticed that Ironwood was wrong Harriet, instead, just ignord her feelings and kept having a one-track mind. She didnt even process her feelings and realize that doing the right thing instead of following orders was more important until it was too late.
This was a disproportionate amount of importance placed in a job over the lives of people, her own friends, and her own personal feelings. If you are going to continue making an argument that this is somehow related to masculinity, then the examples shown in this video only demonstrate how toxic society can be by continuing to perpetuatie and enforce expectations placed on men. It doesn't help that men are being ridiculed and ostrasized when it comes to female-on-male domestic violence or abuse where male victims have to endure silently because there is almost no support system to turn to.
@@c6rn6g2k1d Yes, exactly. Harriet is displaying those toxic traits that are often expected of and enforced on men by society; repressed personal feelings, the importance of the job/career, the emotional distance from from one's own friends. I did not mean to ridicule men or make light of the issue, but it is an accurate comparison.
The Difference he's trying to make is Winter realized what she was doing was wrong much sooner, if Harriot had taken the time, let herself feel her emotions instead of trying to shove them into a box and just lashing out, she would have realized it much sooner.
lets be honest here....Winter is way more cuter and hotter than Harriet. Harriet follows orders, undying loyalty, while Winter also does the same, but with good emotion/intention :)
I would add, that Harriet also grieving. (I wouldn't be surprised if she had a crush on Clover and wasn't just her teammate) Harriet basically buries herself into work and duty so she doesn't have to deal with her emotions. Winter is older, so maybe the comparison is not totally fair to Harriet.
honestly alot of people bury themselves into work when grieving. I can't hate harriot because she was obviously grieving but atleast saw the light in the end.
This is a video I wanted to make after Volume 8 but didn't get around to it by the time hiatus kicked in and I stopped pumping out videos. But now that RWBY is back, I figured I'd make this video now.
@@stevenkurtz2730 We shall see!
I remembered asking you this on twitter, but could you do a video of every time Vacuo was mentioned throughout RWBY (from Volumes 1-8, maybe even 9 as it may be mentioned again).
@@turbobrony1472 I'll write that down and see if I get to it. If I do, it would be after V9.
@@ImStrange_ Okay, thanks. I know that, like everyone, we're both waiting to finally see Vacuo after being told about it and hear it mentioned dozens of times!
Either is poetic or ironic, how Harriet's speech about duty is what awoke a new ability within Ren's Semblance. I like to think that her words triggered his anger because that how used to think and act, and that made him realize how ridiculous that sounded, because feelings is part of one self, and is important to aknowledging it, not surpressing it.
A f**king men!
Damn straight!
It was something Ironwood taught them to get rid of.
I never liked Harriet much but I give her VA all the props because that scream when Vine is about to sacrifice himself is AMAZINGLY Good.
I love how winter doesn't believe a word she says. She knows she's wrong.
Harriet: who cares?
*record scratch*
What did you just say?
I am convinced that the differences between Winter and Harriet is why I like Winter more.
SAME LOL
Same
It’s almost as if rigidly and uncritically following insane orders is a really bad thing!
Though presented through a less militaristic lens, this is also the contrast between Qrow and Tyrian. Qrow started out undyingly loyal to Ozpin and has learned to question things, while Tyrian has only become more pathologically, unfalteringly loyal to Salem as time has gone on.
It can be. Ironwood let Fear cloud his judgement, same as she did, Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate, leads to Suffering. She let the fear of Salem cloud her judgement, she let her anger over Clovers Death consume her, she let the hate of Qrow, Ruby and the others turn her into something she wasn't. and when she finally realized what she was doing, she suffered not only losing Clover but Vine as well, her home, possibly her family, lashing out, hiding your feelings behind anger is much easier than facing your emotions. that's the lesson here.
“Good Soldiers follow orders”
@@ticcitobi4789 Good people question them.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why winter truly outranks harriet in every way.
Fives: Wait! This is wrong and we all know it! The general is making a mistake, and he needs to be called on it. No clone should have to go out this way! We're loyal soldiers! We follow orders, but we are not a bunch of unthinking droids! We are men! We must be trusted to make the right decisions! Especially when the orders we are given are wrong
I think the real difference between Harriet and Winter is the same as the HUGE difference between loyalty and just blind obedience.
Clover's death had a huge impact on Harriet, and she connected that to her sense of duty, thinking that anyone who questioned her or Ironwood was basically mocking Clover's death. She double-downed on her duty because she didn't see the rest of her team as friends even though she did care about them and didn't know how to properly process it. Winter is different because she not only has her sense of duty, she allows herself to feel and establish bonds with others, notably Penny and Weiss.
Personally I don't think Harriet wasn't hiding behind "Duty" I think by the time Clover Died, she was just utterly broken from his death, she was trying to hold her emotions in check but she was also scared out of her mind, you could see it on her face. And so she made the same Mistake as Ironwood, she allowed Fear to cloud her judgement. You can tell the moment she realized that when the other Ace Ops were trying to stop her, she realized she had been on the wrong side. I think inwardly, she is a good person, but she's been fighting for so long, watching friends and loved ones die, that she tried to stop feeling anything but Anger because lashing out is much easier then confronting your emotions. She almost said it well talking to Vine, "Clover was the Best of Us." And now she has a whole new reason to fight, a whole new reason to keep going, not just to honor the memory of her friends she's lost but to make amends for the awful things she did. Like Winter she realized she was wrong, and I think when she makes a reappearance she will be all the much more dedicated for it. and she'll come out of the Fall of Atlas a more mature person.
Harriet: Genocide is fine because I'm a good soldier that follows her orders.
Winter: The fuck is wrong with you?
Ah, Harriet, they hung better men than you for using that excuse...
I like how you contrast Winter and Harriet’s paths.
I gotta say, Harriet’s screams for Vine TEAR my goddamn heart out. Winter’s for Weiss was brutal but it doesn’t match Harriet’s raw agony.
It's unfortunately another reason why Atlas is weaker than most modern militaries. Modern military you can question and refuse orders if they are immoral or illegal.
Technically there's no evidence that that's _not_ the case in Atlas, but I think when Ironwood started acting all nutso people were too scared of him to speak up. I mean, Marrow did and Ironwood was gonna shoot him in the fucking head
@@bigfatcarp93 Well Ironwood did snap and became full on dictator and we all know dictators don't allow people to question them. Ironwood was pretty resonable before he snapped though.
Plus, if you don't question an immoral order, you can eventually find yourself convicted of a war crime. Nuhremburg set the standard that just following orders isn't a valid defense.
No you can't. Military prison is full of people who disobeyed genocidal or suicidal orders.
I for one like to give the rank and file solders the benefit of the doubt. We the viewers see Ironwood going down hill since Volume 4 as a fly on the wall we have perspective they lack. Also while Ironwood made bad decisions with the embargo and closing of boarders there is still a plausible reasoning for a government to make those bad decisions. All of Ironwoods unforgivable actions happened over 2 days of Volume 8 during a kingdom wide crisis and Grimm invasion things happened so fast most people didn't have time to see how far gone ironwood was until his bomb threat and that's when we see his subordinates being tariffed of him.
When you realize Harriet and Ruby are kinda doing the same thing with their feelings:💀💀💀☠️💀💀💀
oof! true yet different in the actions they do next. Harriet suppresses her emotions for the sake of the mission and to not view her friends as friends to ignore her pain. Ruby does it for the sake of her friends, to be a beacon of light and inspiration to them, be the embodiment of "Keep Moving Forward". Of course, Ruby's method of suppressing her emotions has it's own drawbacks and Vol 9 definitely seems like the Vol to focus on this for her.
@@razorswordninja12 Yep!
Winter is calm and collected while Harriet is impatient and hot-headed
Man Winter's scene against Ironwood really hit the part of my brain that can't help but view her as Doom Slayer during his early days as a Space Marine. CO gives order that involves civilians being killed, solider objects to order, fights CO, heavily injuring them and gaining a new power up later on. Of course played differently but similarly. Just that familiarity makes me like how Winter turned out during the end of Vol 8. kar en tuk until Team RWBY returns Winter.
When Clover died, everything changed. For Atlas, Ironwood, and the Ace Ops. Harriet, I believe, was afraid of feeling again in Volume 8. Thought that maybe caring for the team was a mistake. Then she… shut people out. Not allowing personal feelings to jeopardize anything ever again. “Mission comes first.”
But that’s wrong, too. I think, that God Almighty, would allow us to feel for our friends. For our enemies. No matter what, no matter who or what we lose in the end. Without our humanity, without feelings, we lose everything. Feelings are not a factor for failure, but empower us to do the right thing.
You're right, soldiers are many things. But are not truly machines, soldiers may be trained to not let emotions get in the way of the mission, but not at the expense of their humanity.
What I find interesting is that in the opening of volume 8, we see Harriet and Qrow on the same "petal" of Clover's badge, and in the volume itself we see her demand that Qrow return it to her when she discovers he has it. and as this video shows, Harriet never questions clover's way of thinking even when Vine does. If you ask me, this sounds like very strong evidence that Harriet had some kind of connection with Clover that's somehow similar to the connection he had with Qrow.
The Volume 8 Opening has a few subtle references that only become fully clear later on in the volume. Another good example is the closeup on Nora's uncertain face as a lightning bolt cuts across, thereby foreshadowing Nora's character arc that volume.
I hope we will see them in the further episodes of Volume 9.
I'm sorry but with Volume 10 not greenlit as of yet and confirmation that volume 9 is just the island we won't see them until possibly 2 years once again. But we will see Vacuo no doubt in the post credit
@@sonicspeedproductions2.04 Yeah and I think Team RWBY will see that Salem has already made her move on Vacuo.
@@sonicspeedproductions2.04 was there a confirmation of just the island though? I think it was a confirmation that RWBY won't get out of the island until the Volume 9 ends, but it doesn't mean we don't get to see Vacuo. Plus I remember that two years ago Arryn(animator) posted a sneak peak of Volume 9 with Vacuo desert showing.
@@sonianevermind9654 we will more than likely see Vacuo or Salem in the post credits but I'm leaning more towards seeing Vacuo's entrance.
If you wanna follow orders without having to feel or doubt the order, might as well be a machine. This was the thought that kept going through my head about the Ace Ops and their decision to follow orders even after Ironwood shot a council member right in front of everyone. I get they don’t want to get shot but you have to question morale at this point.
What an awesome video. I didn't know I wanted this comparison
So when the inevitable tribunal comes to pass and she has to answer for the thousands of lives she knowing killed. She'll simply give the excuse
"I was just following orders. I was doing my duty."
God, I hope not.
This is why we love Winter and Harriet bois, both keeping so much emotion inside, whether they like to admit it or not (Harriet)
0:52
*HARRIET!*
*WOMAN, IF I HAVE TOLD YOU ONCE, I'VE TOLD YOU A THOUSAND TIMES! STOP! PEGGING! KIDS!*
Hilarious
The fact she says pegged twice in this series is hilarious to me
@@Kazeryuun Three times, I think
@@bigfatcarp93 good lord
Soldier vs warrior
I hadn't noticed this until this video, but Watts remotely triggering the detonator on the bomb pisses me OFF. Holy shit that was so underhanded.
Awesome video for an awesome show!
I think about the parallels between them so much
As someone else said in the comments, this shows the difference between loyalty and blind obedience
In the end, Harriet lived up to her Aesop fable counterpart of origin.
I had you kids pegged right from the start…
Me: yup it’s been a nice journey everyone 😂imma head out
Harriet believes Nothing matters but the mission.
Winter believes that Everything matters including the mission.
Winter awknowledged her feelings and still used her critical thinking and ended up questioning if what she was doing was right, and she noticed that Ironwood was wrong
Harriet, instead, just ignord her feelings and kept having a one-track mind. She didnt even process her feelings and realize that doing the right thing instead of following orders was more important until it was too late.
Interesting
Habeces hay que romper alguna reglas por el bien de la mayoria
Ironically, Harriet has a real toxic masculinity problem.
This was a disproportionate amount of importance placed in a job over the lives of people, her own friends, and her own personal feelings. If you are going to continue making an argument that this is somehow related to masculinity, then the examples shown in this video only demonstrate how toxic society can be by continuing to perpetuatie and enforce expectations placed on men. It doesn't help that men are being ridiculed and ostrasized when it comes to female-on-male domestic violence or abuse where male victims have to endure silently because there is almost no support system to turn to.
@@c6rn6g2k1d Yes, exactly. Harriet is displaying those toxic traits that are often expected of and enforced on men by society; repressed personal feelings, the importance of the job/career, the emotional distance from from one's own friends.
I did not mean to ridicule men or make light of the issue, but it is an accurate comparison.
@@veggiesnake4430It helps that soldiery as a profession/occupation has been very masculine-coded for ages.
the main difference is snowbird
They are similar?
The Difference he's trying to make is Winter realized what she was doing was wrong much sooner, if Harriot had taken the time, let herself feel her emotions instead of trying to shove them into a box and just lashing out, she would have realized it much sooner.
@@KnightShadowsong now is too late?
@@matteomiriello1661 For Atlas? yes. For the rest of the world, not by a long shot.
lets be honest here....Winter is way more cuter and hotter than Harriet. Harriet follows orders, undying loyalty, while Winter also does the same, but with good emotion/intention :)
Very true
I would add, that Harriet also grieving. (I wouldn't be surprised if she had a crush on Clover and wasn't just her teammate) Harriet basically buries herself into work and duty so she doesn't have to deal with her emotions. Winter is older, so maybe the comparison is not totally fair to Harriet.
@@sqxbarto9229 oh I agree. Lol I just like Winter waaaay more lol
I highly dislike Harriet, so much.
Harriet is also just an annoying brown noser, she literally will do anything to win and doesn’t let herself care what that does to others.
honestly alot of people bury themselves into work when grieving. I can't hate harriot because she was obviously grieving but atleast saw the light in the end.