I have a suggestion. Can you make a video on if it would be better to leg meta the players using the best armor, or a lesser known one- armor destruction via volume of fire or just spamming shotguns? I just wanna know which is faster as someone who doesnt have access to most AP rounds.
Agreed. However, even the higher up rounds are acting like they’re supposed to. My feeling is 5.56 is actually bugged. I fought a guy in dorms and to be frank he should’ve killed me with his M995 rounds. We ended up voiping and laughing because it didn’t even 0 my level 5 played after several shots. We ended be friends over how bad 5.56 was.
@@robbytherobyou miss the point. Best point in time is when you had access to everything on the market ammo included like 2018-2019. Just let everyone have access to everything on the market once they hit lvl15. Makes the game so much more evenly matched and fun.
@@Qban_Guy I like this wholesome post. While I haven't made friends over this, I've definitely had funny voip interactions over it in the middle of gunfights.
SPEAR got added this wipe, devs always let you play with new toys for a while when they first come out. This coming wipe Hybrid will be quest locked if it’s on traders at all
55A1 vs sig hybrid is somewhat of an apples and oranges comparison just because the guns that use each caliber are so different. A better comparison would be 5.56 vs 7.62x39. When you account for weapon selection, they are balanced relative to each other, at least on paper. The real problem is 7.62x51 because it is far better than both. Sig hybrid is kind of its own thing because you can only use it in the spear, which is expensive and difficult to unlock.
There's a simple solution to armor/hp balance in stp realism mod. The damage multipliers. For example, a bullet hits the center of the thorax. It deals 100$ damage. If it hits the side area of the thorax, which isn't protected by the plate, but doesn't have important organs behind it, the bullet deals about 60-70% damage (i don't remember the exact number), bur it's still applied to the thorax
We still have huge problems with desync and bullet registration , so that idea should be last. They should either buff 556 and 545 or make it so high tier ammo for those two are on the traders
So that IS actually possible? I don't follow the modding scene I came to this idea myself, to lower the damage and pen of a bullet by half of it's degree-of-attack, since this system is already in the game to determine whether a shot to the head will ricochet or not. It would solve alot of issues, but the chest of our models needs to actually face forward towards where we are looking not off to the right exposing our left armpit and ribs like it did and still does now: It's not good from a game design standpoint AND from a realism standpoint.
I hate how it is a constant loop of crying, changes, crying, changes... Armor was good and you stood a chance up against chads? REEEEE, stupid armor hitboxes. Armor hitboxes changed? REEEEE, 5.56 dead. it's plain stupid.
@@powercore9277 Except its literally not. Armour was perfectly fine and for once acting like armour. Guess what? Armour only should cover exactly were the plates are and no more. People were cry babies because they don't realise how small armour plates actually are. Everyone had a fairer chance and all guns were pretty much viable again alongside different ammo types. This has nothing to do with balancing and all to do with cry babies not liking being able to tank everything except the top tier.
@@AcausalMonolith BSG was dumb making a realistic armor plate system on a very unrealistic HP pools system, they should have reworked the thorax a bit to launch the .14 patch, but the state it was at the beginning was clearly far better then the walking tank we have now. BSG just need to add vitals, buff Thorax hp by 10 or 15, and rollback the walking tank patch, it would be perfect
I will go to my grave saying that changing the armour system back to the old style and away from the physical plates being the hitbox was pure cowardice on the part of BSG and kowtowed to streamers mad they couldn't sweat to T6 armour and be invincible Wkey machines. Put it back and make thorax act more like the stomach whenit gets blacked out and add a new inner thorax "vitals" hitbox that gets covered by the avg plate size.
I would actually be so down for a "vitals" hitbox that has maybe 10hp and the outer thorax having 75 but the "vitals" always being covered by plates. So if you get pumped full of 9 mil PST the blunt damage still takes you out.
But a game like Tarkov can’t go the route you want it to you say bsg caters to streamers but the core way to play in Tarkov is leveling up getting better gear and ammo and using said gear to fight other players the problem with last armor change was too fast ttk which won’t work in a game like Tarkov idk you guys want the game to respect your time but them spout stuff like this and streamers rule the game but in reality you will lose to people who play this game a lot armor change or not the only thing that definitely needs reworking is the ammos pen and damage and the only armor change that would work would be maybe adding slight weak points in armor like armpit or neck or legs which would make it more possible for poor people to take out chads but your opinion of the old armor just won’t be a good thing in a game like Tarkov where if you die you lose everything Also making tier 6 plates fir only and maybe adding more spawns to maps like reserve or lighthouse would make the armor not feel as bad to lower tier bullets but would reward players who loot and extract
Armor update (ordinal plate) was ok itself, the health system needed adjustment. BSG decide do a hot fix that was just terrible. 7.62x39 guns are off the menu cuz you cant get enough BP's same with 5.56 and 5.45 guns. You pretty much forced to use 7.62x51 or SVDS
I loved this wipe, new armor system was great, early wipe felt amazing. The armor re-change more recently seems like such a silly step backwards, such a shame
It's a tricky balance. I think the new armor is 'better' because it's more consistent, and superior armor actually feels better, which it didn't before. So progression feels more meaningful now - but the new system is definitely more unfair between newer/less experienced players and the sweats. So it kinda depends where each person sits on the balance perspective - I personally feel that the new system can be OK so long as the meta stuff gets balanced out. Class 4-6 used to feel basically the same because everyone was in effect running class 3 due to the tiny plate size. More level playing field but progression felt pointless. I see both sides of the discussion tbh
Personally I’d rather have a more level playing field overall. That being said the only way this works well imo is if they had added another hitbox the actual plate covers
@@GigabeefNah the first system was great, what they should have done was rework the player hitboxes and hp pools because it doesn't make sense that a hit to the shoulder equals to one to the heart or lungs lol.
@@GigabeefI really believe they should have changed the damage model rather than the armor. IRL plates cover where they cover because that’s where the vital organs are located. A glancing thorax blow should not equal a direct hit. This would have made the new armor system feel much better imo.
I think that the previous armor hitbox for plates was nice and that they should have reiterated on it instead of scrapping it and make the plates just cover the whole thorso. Changing the thorax hitbox(inner lethal hitbox, outer non-lethal hitbox) would have been nicer than what we currently have. Currently, the armor system makes PMCs tankier than ever before(having to go through a layer of soft armor+a plate is 2 layers), while plates apparently are working at full effectiveness regardless of durability and high-pen ammo availability being the lowest it's ever been. If you add all these factors together we end up in a weird state where TTK is higher than even pre-plates system. Feels like this was a kneejerk reaction to the Unheard drama.
bro plates do not work at full effectiveness regardless of durability lol, went factory and shit on a guys armor with a rpd. literally 0'd his plate out. put his armor on without checking plate and walked upstairs to third floor cause i heard his boy up there. instantly got shredded first few bullets through the front of the armor, straight in the chest, no pen ammo LOL. I was so shocked, only knew what happened cause my boy took him out and checked the armor i was wearing after i was dead. + not looting for ammo does not mean its not available, every raid i spawn in the ammo boxes are always left unlooted. free m995, ssa ap, ppbs, etc. I don't mean running raids as pmc either, I can run scav raid and go afk until 8 min is left in raid and go loot ammo care free knowing barely anyone is left around
I've said it before but the hitbox changes were a performance optimisation not a gameplay motivated change. Obviously they have a gameplay impact, but reducing the number of calculations needed for the hitboxes is going to increase performance. IMO it was a poor change and should have been approached in a more constructive way but they went for the simplest change they could and this is what we got.
I find it works best when I look at 5.56 like a machine gun cartridge from war thunder. The tracers do no damage so an entire mag of M856A1 is useless. My custom preset for mag load is what I call the "Universal Belt". SSA AP, M995, M855A1, M856A1, and a Warmage at the end of every 5 round burst. It's important to only use full auto to maximize the effect. This method also increases the longevity of the found in raid ammo... the hurdle of this method is knowing and accepting that 1 or 2 out of 5 of the bullets fired aren't going to do anything against armor, but if hitting a face hit box directly with warmage it will 1 tap. It's a gamble.
The problem is that they moves m856 to LL4 for some reason. Bring it back to a Cult part 1 unlock and bring m855a1 to a LL4 and then 556 would actually make sense to use. Also removing high level ammo crafts from workbench L3 was a wild change because you have no access to 556 aside from FIR 995 and 55a1. It makes the whole round unusable and the armor changes didnt swap the meta at all and everyone runs around with a MDR with m62 at the minimum and there is very little room for anything other than that, the spear and a 556 with 995 in it.
BSG had to give damaged armor to Arena players because the undamaged ones were tanking way too many bullets, and there's absolutely no way to argue that the armor was too overpowered in Arena but not in Tarkov. If they aren't going to revert the armor changes, on the very least they need to reduce the maximum durability of armor or change the effective damage reduction formula that uses durability as one of its factors in order to let 5.56, 5.45 and SMG rounds actually have a fighting chance, otherwise the next wipe will only have players using 7.62 MDRs or Spears because they shoot higher caliber bullets that have both good penetration and good damage, unlike SSA AP which penetrates well but tickles the armor if it blocks the bullet. They also need to completely change the availability of ammo because back when 0.14 had just launched it came with a bunch of nerfs to bullets which only made sense with armor plates that were smaller, but now that they are bigger there was no reversion to the bullet nerfs that came with 0.14. If nothing is changed I'm seriously considering not to bother playing the next wipe because of how awful it will be to use early-wipe bullets against PMCs wearing T-90 tank armor around their torso.
The worst part is plates are so much better than old armor, but it was kinda balanced because they covered less area. Now they cover what old armor covered but are still way better. To make things more like how it was before they really do need to lower plate durability, or make only ceramic plates common and the rest fir only. Also arms are a big factor I think, 556 does 20-25 damage after hitting blacked out arms and 308 is still doing 40. Plus you can't pen arms without 50+ pen ammo now.
It's possible that M995s were removed from crafting to promote the arena, because for one Lega medal you can get Grumpy's hideout key, the room it opens spawns a lot of rare ammo. In five key openings, I collected a whole container of SSA AP and M995s.
rip nashi but facts, loot areas that are meant to spawn ammo. labs red keycard is expensive but always spawns ammo, ground zero has ammo spawns and is literally the *noob map*, you can go streets if you can run it, theres just so many options. I'm chilling rn with hundreds of the *unlootable* ammo, probably because nobody goes and loots for them
Most people don't pick up mag spawns on the maps either and they usually carry high tier ammo. It doesn't take long to unpack a mag so idk why people forget to check these either. I rarely have problems collecting high tier ammo, but I also mix mags with high tier and mid tier ammo since you rarely need more than a few shots of the good stuff to make your lower tier stuff effective.
Abismal that they basically make me play clash of clans with upgrading and crafting time in a game that already eats so much time. Crafting 120rnds to Potentially lose 90rnds instantly is wild. (I usually carry 3 mags or so full of it)
Learn to half pack mags man. Not too hard. You don't need 30 rounds of high tier bullets. 15 should be more than enough to shred armor, then high flesh damage bullets to clean up the kill. Then you lose 45 bullets instead of 90.
I would say among many others, this wipe was probably the best ever until they reverted to the old armor system, this alone says everything we need to know around balancing. Because balancing it's the key word here, it simply made it accessible to play even to less experienced players and many of them made a step towards being experienced thanks to this wipe and its plates system. Now it's all gone, lowering the percentage of survival if not "meta-geared" (or simply higher level) by a ridiculous ammount and making the game almost unplayable for those who have little time, and I am NOT one of them, but still, the key word its balancing. And that is why the super late wipe always felt stale after a while, with the plates system this was already been dealt with, allowing different gear loadout to face a wider gear loadout. If they really want to remain on this older armor system, they should rebalance almost every round in it's category for the next wipe.
Not gonna lie, I kiiiinda enjoy it that for once the M4 isn't THE meta gun in the latewipe. On the other hand tho what replaced it ( aka, Spear, SA-58, MDR, etc. ) is by far worse than that.
I'm probably in the minority, but I preferred the small plate hitboxes, this game is already a dice roll in most aspects, so giving lower skilled/ worse geared players a chance against more skilled/ richer opponents, I thought was totally fine. IRL if you take 2 buckshot's to the chest, unless you are wearing INSANE bodyarmor, you're probably going down.
I feel like BSG make changes but don't think of the knock on effect. They will need to make m855a1 buyable from PK 4, or/and craftable eariler doing the quest. Possibily allow M995 craftable from a quest somewhere in the mid 40s level. At the very least, the high fire rate and mods can help the 556 platforms perform decently as long as you have the high pen. The same cannot be said for 545 which is in a worse position than 556. All the AK platorms that use 545 have an RPM as slow or slower than the black MDR, using ammo that has no where near the damage needed with recoil that makes it harder to handle than even some of the 762x51 platforms. It will be hard for BSG to rebalance this.
I knew we were back in the old days when i was lying on the ground with an MP5 shooting shit rounds against a lad with level 5 who took an entire mag and didn't even flinch. so i also traveled back to the old days and put a mag into his legs and watched him drop. we truly are back.
BSG Please revert armor system: Early patch 0.14 was amazing! New recoil system, new content like the snow, new map, ... and of course the new plate system with a réalistic sized protection. This was awesome ! With these changes we could FINALLY play all calibers with different types of ammunition! Everyone was a real threat to everybody even the high end chad with best gear. This has changed the way of playing. rather than W key in the open field like a Juggernaut it was necessary to adopt a more tactical style. This was a good way to balance big armors (T5 and T6) and ammunitions. This allowed a wide range of equipment to be viable beyond early wipe. But since they have resized armors hitboxes a month or two ago, the balancing has disappeared and the old meta is back. Useless guns and ammos are now very common and only a sample of all available equipment is playable. Such a waste! I think late wipe is hated in part because of that. Everyone brings the same gear and those who fall outside the meta are at a disadvantage in PVP. This "NEW" armor system is a very bad move for balance, tactical gameplay and fun. I hope someday BSG will bring back realistic sized plates (with minor tweaks) for a REAL HARDCORE gameplay shooter expérience! TY :)
At the end of the day it pretty much always comes down to "What round has the best pen for full auto weapons that you can simply buy from traders or the market". High end find only ammo hardly gets used because you can never really stockpile it in ways that actually matter, and I get BSG probably wants you to mix high pen rounds with lower pen ones but it doesnt quite work in practice.
At 23:30, you can actually spot a dude upstairs who sees you and goes prone. I believe that was the guy that got you at the end - probably was up there the whole time!
Did they remove thunder and lightning from the game when it rains? I know the rain is super loud and often annoying but I always thought their thunder sounds were on another level
It's like they always do a complete 180... Armor too small? Now it is back to what it used to be where the size of the armor plate is completely disregarded and even completely covers your side, even though all there is in there is naked, unprotected torso... BSG throwing and it's not for content.
I preferred the last system, made big bulky armor feel like it had a purpose. Now its back to slick spam with Class 6 plates in it covering 90% of your torso. People say it messed with Balance but I think it was better because you still needed better aim. Yeah the size might be smaller but if you hit those slots you'd do substantially less damage so you NEEDED to hit those soft targets or use meta ammo. Now you NEED meta ammo and aiming is an afterthought.
I definitely think that there needs to be some ammo/gun availability changes that happen late into wipe, like 5 months into wipe mechanic will get a new quest anybody can accept that says kill 30 scavs or whatever, and you can craft ammo like ssa ap, ammo availability is one of the more interesting ways tarkov can be balanced.
If BSG changed at what angle the thorax faces when facing forward (it faces to the right exposing your left armpit and the side of your ribs that weren't protected by plates) we could have mitigated a good chunk of the 'growing pains' of the initial armour rework system. Alongside a far better (but not perfect: M62, Hybrid FMJ, CBJ etc.) ammo vs armour availability progression, and the recoil rework, pretty much everything was viable aslong as you had ok ammo. And as for dying to scavs, well, I think riloe said it best when he said 'scavs are the most immersion breaking feature in eft': Scavs are LONG in line for a complete overhaul that, we unfortunately will probably never get.
I've come back after a bit of time (basically since the armor changes). I've learned pretty quickly to just head hunt even more than normal. Not finding it too bad with 855 because the recoil is so bloody good now. God I hope they don't touch the recoil 😅
how did you clear the malfunction at 4:51 while still being able to ADS? Does the skill mastery of the weapon affect this aswell as reloading while ADSd?
I liked the new armor rework before they stepped back, it forced both new players and experienced players on the same level. forced both players to outplay/outsmart the other and keep their guard up until extract rather than brute forcing each other due to the reliance on gear. I used to bring smoke and flash nades to outplay them, now people just sit and take shots like good boys and girls because they're equipped to do so. I would yield a bit on the armor re-change, but not to the point where you are an armored cube or if they placed in a mechanic if you were to fall unconscious from taking too much blunt damage. Perhaps an ideal change would be rework the specific plate types and allow plates to be purchased from corresponding vendors (up to class 5. Class 6 must be found or bartered for rare items) after completing tasks.
It is a hard thing to balance rounds like 5.56 and 5.45 since they rely heavily on getting through armour and nothing else, the old armour system played into that making the rounds a bit more effective when they hit through the weak points of the different armours since they could do a bit more flesh damage, now after the armour buffs their is almost no reason to use them since better rounds in better calibers are available in mass quantity as well (not to say they weren't before). Making 5.56 and 5.45 crafts and traders purchases less restrictive might ease the blow of the armour buff but until either the armour gets adjusted a bit or ammo gets re-adjusted to fit with the new changes, 5.56 and all entry level and intermediate catridges are not going to be worth running at all now.
Yeah pvp is really great fights last a whole quarter of a second where one of the players clicks their full auto 7.67+ mm rifle over the shape of the enemy player 😑
I was thinking when they announced the recent armor changes they are too much and I still think its bad... I had plates tank over 10 m80s and bsg needs to either nerf plates or give us a chance to kill some1 by finding a gap in the armor again imo.
It feels like when something is ‘broken’ in Tarkov it exists in a loop of everything else in the game. Devs are somehow unable to fix things without ‘breaking’ something else
the problem is that high tier 556 is not easy to get and hard to find not like 545 that you could just go to woods and get a ton of ammo thats the main problem
My experience is 855a1 stacked on 856a1 in 40 rounders works well. I reload a lot and often use the AUG aiming for the head. It's a laser and good ergo with the Mini Monster. I also once dunped 17 6.8 hybrid round into a guy and he survived. I am probably using 5.56 tho more bc its fun and its the first wipe i got past level 15.
I think a big problem with 5.56 in the game is the gameification of the round. It may be smaller than 7.62x39, but it does more terminal damage with most loadings in real life. This extends to M855. It should do less damage than M855A1, but the pen should be about the same depending on the era of M855A1 we're talking about.
I was running m4s with 995 recently and it actually felt great, but very hard to sustain that ammo type at all. Even 55a1 is virtually impossible to keep up on.
If i could describe armor hitboxes before the change in 1 word it would be inconsistent, the anount of times random scavs killed me and 1 of my friends with thorax armpit is truely astounding, but my brother never died to an armpit shot before the armor was changed again
I died to armpit literally 4 times, same as majority people around me who play tarkov. I am more than convinced people who „constantly die to armpit hitbox“ are liars who justify their low skill by blaming armour changes
The top available pen rounds for any rifle have to reliably one shot any headset compatible / unblocked vision helmets. Right now the problem is probably a little bit the ammo and a little bit the armor with the Bastion being one of the more guilty offenders in the game. I just watched a Bastion yesterday tank roughly 5 semi-auto 7.62x39 PS rounds and even though that's "budget garbage ammo" it's still pretty unacceptable. As far as I'm concerned PP should probably one one shot any readily available helmet, PS maybe sacrifice the one shot and have a chance of two, and BP is not readily available and should be used to punch right through plates on the core armor or more exotic flea restricted helmets. I think something like this if we are talking about rifle rounds and ignoring things like the killa/altyn helmets: Late game armor plate > late game ammo > midgame armor plat > late game helmet = mid game ammo > early armor plate > midgame helmet = early game ammo > early helmet in terms of effectiveness. Obviously I do like the armor to fend off a couple rounds of equivalent ammo so that when everyone is running to top readily available gear they are still pushed toward headshots, but the head should be the equalizer for somebody not quite as progressed in terms of gear. Helmets that really tank should be heavily restricted and have downsides and ammo that beats these helmets should also be heavily restricted.
the old armor needed a rework and honestly the armor change is not the problem it’s the ammo So I suggest reworking every ammo caliber to have balanced ratios like the cheaper it is the more accessible and deals more damage than pen but expensive equals less damage but more pen This system is already in place but with the armor changes is extremely unbalanced which is why ammos like 556 545 919 918 and 762 need buffs or a whole new caliber to balance pen and damage price and availability also needs to be changed and ammo some ammo needs to be nerfed like 762 and sig hybrid thus brooding the spectrum of builds and guns They also need to increase the amount of ammo you can craft cause 90-120 bullets of mid ammo is not ideal for balancing calibers Also another thing they could do is make it easier to max hideout craft speeds not too much but if you’re crafting on the low witching 2 months or less you can max this Also maybe buffing some guns fire rate and availability will also help
this newest armor iteration is the biggest fuck up bsg has ever done imo. how did you fuck up what we had. this was regarded as one of the best wipes in all of tarkov, and they completely fucked it.
5.45 & 5.56 are claimed as weak due to all the cry babies constantly moaning about armor being either OP or shite. The devs have listened and acted now this is what you get.
Now we have old armor with the extra processing problem of the new armor hitboxes, all because people got shot in their side and died constantly because they opened their weakpoints to enemies because of old tarkov combat habits of running side to side. Couldnt be THEM that needs to change, it MUST be the armor or ammo
Armor was flat-out inconsistent prior to the latest change whether you gave side or front/back shots. There was a clear element of rng to fights wherein a player might get lucky with a burst that happens to armpit or completely dodge their opponent's plates altogether. A knowing player could even take advantage of the massive gaps in front and back plate coverage as long as they ran ammo capable of penning level 2 or 3 soft armor. If BSG's goal was to make armor a lot more relevant in their original pass, they failed-players were disproportionately biasing moderate pen ammo and cheap armor, since as Gigabeef said, high pen was unnecessary and (in my experience/opinion) the latter was just as effective as high end armor. The state of armor now is much more in alignment with the goal they outlined, and objectively better than it was before. They just need to make higher pen ammo more accessible. The sheer volume of decent ammo that is either FiR only or craftable at low turnaround rates post-quests ought to be revisited.
@@jsingle5 the whole game has been taken from a decent military sim style, to COD/battlefield which has borked all of it. The game mechanics are still majorly flawed, being able to perform 2 actions when only 1 physical is possible. The armour profiles and workings of it have been kled due to all the high speed cod /bf/rb6 muppets looking for a fast paced killing game with super fast run and gun accurately which is physically not possible, at high speed manouvers.
@@graemepennell realism isnt always fun, getting hit by 1 bullet and it luckily hitting you in an exposed area and the fight instantly being over is not fun. the updated armor system is amazing and allows for way better gunfights. having armor that works is too much for people but nobody ever talks about the fact that your leg can get blown off and you can sew it back on in 16-20 seconds.
@@jsingle5 Could it also be better to heavily restrict anything above level 4 armor? Otherwise you just go back to the same problem that we had at the beginning. Making 5 and 6 extremely rare, while also restricting the high pen ammo, at least makes it so the mid tier rounds and armor are useful throughout the wipe. Mid tier should be the normal tier
think the 20:03 guy got you from across the way, there's a room I've seen people snipe from in 2 story that has site on 3 story stairs. lol just unpaused and someone in chat basically said the same thing. it did seem like 2 of the shots came from 2 story because you were getting shot at when you weren't in the hallway but on stairs before you died.
I think BSG now needs to go through all the ammos and do a balance pass. I think the armor is fine. It helps to negate some of those s***** RNG deaths, but if you're going to make everybody a lot tankier, you need to go through and balance out your DPS now and not just have it. So that two or three ammos in the entire game are the only thing that are realistically viable to deal with that tankiness like imagine if you were in an RPG and the devs made a boss have three times as much health as it used to but then didn't implement anyway for your character to get stronger to fight against that. That's basically what we have here
I am honestly ok with 5.56 being kinda shit. It has stood the test of time as being the top choice for many wipes. It’s time to breathe anew and try other guns again. That’s when tarkov is the most fun, when everyone is trying to figure out the best ammo type to use when there’s a bit shakeup. When nothing is meta, everything is meta.
Velocity should affect pen they could just do a multiplier with velocity/barrel length increasing pen. 20in 556 55g m193 goes right through most plates at closer ranges
The armor system at the beginning of the wipe was better, but it didn't work well with the current health system. They should implement some kind of "vitals" hitbox for the thorax and then go back to the original armor rework.
This armor change was so dumb: BSG just going out of their way to keep the "BS" in their name. I literally just don't get why they would make such a global change that just completely ruins the game for the vast majority of players who don't spend their entire lives collecting class 6 plates. Just why? The "realistic" plate coverage system was perfect-- it made all kinds of ammo and playstyles viable at the "expense" of the top whatever-percent of players who can consistently get top-tier gear not being able to run around almost immune to damage. Those guys already have enough factors swaying the gameplay outcomes in their favor-- top-tier weapons and optics, top-shelf ammo, maxed out passive skills, drug pouches full of stims, etc (to say nothing of the value of exeperience / practice playing the game). In what universe do these players also need to be able to stack class 6 and class 4 armor on their heads so that the only way of killing them in a reasonable amount of time is to hit the "left eye" hitbox? It's absurd. It's also particularly toxic that the current system basically renders all the commonly-available rifles and bullets useless. Mid-tier 5.45, 5.56, and 7.62x39 weapons and rounds and class 4 armor are like the bread and butter of Tarkov-- the game should be balanced around these rounds and armors as a baseline, and then BSG can decide how they want outliers to fit into the system from there. We just don't need any gameplay systems that make M855 or 5.45 PS like a 20-hit-kill to the thorax (or four plus rounds to the head jesus christ). BSG need to go back to school on diminishing returns: high-end gear should be adding a small percentage to your lethality or survivability over what mid-tier gear gets you, not allowing you to just killdozer your way through swathes of average players because their bullets bounce off of you. BSG should just put the realistic plate hitboxes back, or even revert all the way back to the original armor system without the discrete plates. Even that was better than the current nonsense where there's full coverage and like zero chance to pen because of stacked armor layers. BSG always do this: one moment they make a change that opens gameplay up to average players, and then they invariably reneg on it and revert the game back to heavily favoring nolifers... it's so fucking dumb. Just let a guy who plays a few hours a week at least be able to pick up a gun that can actually kill other players FFS.
I think they should revert back to the plate actual size hit box and instead focus their efforts on adjusting the health system in general. Maybe organ system, I mean I’m spitballing but there needs to be a new approach other then buff or nerfing. This is always full circle. I personally think chest hit box getting hit twice is dumb and should be broken up maybe into more parts
They shouldn’t have just braindead extended the armor hitbox since the armor plate doesn’t work like the old days. They basically just made every armor even stronger than before armor plate update.
Personally, I feel like it's fine that 556 is less practical against armor since that's more realistic. I just think that it should be balanced in some other way, so that it is still useful.
People talk about realism but dont realize Ar500 steel plates will bounce 855 all day but a m193 "FMJ" round will zip right through it. Ceramic armor isn't good for multiple hits. And realistically no armor is repairable
Tbh I think the only way to fix 556 in the current meta is making 56a1 fleable/pk2 55a1 pk 4 and give it a small buff maybe 45/46 pen and bring 995 craft back
If you have enough money you can buy 762 PP and 300 cbj off the flea market and keep up with the high level players. I would use akm with the thread adapter for the better silencers or obviously the mcx which you can also get on the flea.
@@cazaconaire-supervivencia-396with the low recoil and slower rate of fire, it can still headtap. Along with not having great ammo for other calibers, smgs should be better for lower leveled players since its easier to use and cheper.
With SPT Realism mod, no more problems. With SAIN, no more problems. People who want an arcade game, you get what you wanted. For me, I have found the solution.
@@Globalnet626 a 97% or even 10% survival rate in SPT could be expected depending on what settings and mods are used. my bet would be that your friend is using some "dad gamer" mods and chose the easiest SAIN preset
I remember when this game was first released and nikita made a very blunt statement "THIS game is not for the filthy casuals" 😂 SPT IS BORING AS F IMAGINE BEING SO BAD AT PVP YOU WANT SINGLE PLAYER IN A EXTRACTION SHOOTER 😂 🤡
The problem is back then armors were buffed to compensate previous RNG hitboxes, now the hitboxes were changed back and armors were not. Nerf armors, especially durability.
For people arguing, Tarkov is a video game that doesn't preach realism on all levels for one. I'll use the argument a streamer made, (StankRat i think) "you can put on some lip balm to run on dead legs and reattach severed limbs". Also, the argument of time and resource investment into 556a1 particularly is fair. That lone ammo should get buffed in my opinion; and it's other caliber equivalents to varying degrees. Not saying everything should pen everything, but just enough to do a bit more damage
They should just uniformly buff all ammo so it's similar to where it was with the old armor. Not anything insane but buff it a little. All ammo you can buy from traders should be sellable on flea. I can easily get plates but nothing to counteract them unless I play "meta" calibers.
they are coping just get the good ammo *errm the damage is bad* you can literally penetrate level 6 plates with ssa ap lol, just loot for the ammo. You will find ssa ap, ppbs, etc. These all penetrate level 6 fairly quickly. Your gun shoots full auto, it's up to you to hit your shots. using good ammo and hitting your shots consistently means you will put people down within 2-7 seconds.
Wait, you mean when armor was working correctly ammo worked correctly? And now that BSG broke it again because players kept crying the ammo is broken? Wow!
I ran 55a1 in the labs event and it went pretty smooth, around 6 pmc per raid, but yeah, you need to craft it and it doesnt make any sense when you can buy m62 or hybrid from pk, its like they wanted to boost higher calibers this wipe, completely forgetting about 556 and 545, I still feel like the armor system is broken, there is a HUUUUGE gap between lvl6 and lvl5 armor, with lvl6 you are a walking tank, with lvl5 you cant even handle 1 bullet before getting red chest also they changed/removed the armpit and decided to put the throat, which is way worse imo
The “new” now old armor was the equalizer for old heads and newer players. Which was a desperately needed change. Don’t know what they were thinking by switching it back. Fools.
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Ok but what game is this
Escape from Tarkov!
I have a suggestion. Can you make a video on if it would be better to leg meta the players using the best armor, or a lesser known one- armor destruction via volume of fire or just spamming shotguns? I just wanna know which is faster as someone who doesnt have access to most AP rounds.
556 ammo has no business being this restrictive when you can buy box loads of M62 and sig hybrid directly from PK
Agreed. However, even the higher up rounds are acting like they’re supposed to. My feeling is 5.56 is actually bugged. I fought a guy in dorms and to be frank he should’ve killed me with his M995 rounds. We ended up voiping and laughing because it didn’t even 0 my level 5 played after several shots. We ended be friends over how bad 5.56 was.
Except M62 is used by guns with much higher recoil. You can have 40 recoil on an AUG…
@@robbytherobyou miss the point. Best point in time is when you had access to everything on the market ammo included like 2018-2019. Just let everyone have access to everything on the market once they hit lvl15. Makes the game so much more evenly matched and fun.
@@Qban_Guy I like this wholesome post. While I haven't made friends over this, I've definitely had funny voip interactions over it in the middle of gunfights.
Maybe they are idk testing the ammo
5.45 and 5.56 were hurt so bad by the changes
more like everything, especially the shotguns
@@progoku196Literally only see scavs and questers with shotties now, dead guns for sure
@@thisnameistemporary6434 BS is pretty good but hindered by guns having a low RoF and ppbs is pretty bad due to its low damage
@@progoku196magnum buck and legs brother 😂
545 sucked before the armor change.
I don't get the change of not being able to craft m995 and being able to buy 855A1. When SIG Hybrid is purchasable
fuck it let me buy m995
SPEAR got added this wipe, devs always let you play with new toys for a while when they first come out. This coming wipe Hybrid will be quest locked if it’s on traders at all
55A1 vs sig hybrid is somewhat of an apples and oranges comparison just because the guns that use each caliber are so different. A better comparison would be 5.56 vs 7.62x39. When you account for weapon selection, they are balanced relative to each other, at least on paper. The real problem is 7.62x51 because it is far better than both.
Sig hybrid is kind of its own thing because you can only use it in the spear, which is expensive and difficult to unlock.
@@MP5Kurzthey cucked the s2m smg ir whatever it’s called within a month of its release with the ammo
It's kinda like "why should i craft M855A1 when i can buy M80 at pk3 and M62 at pk4 which is whole lot more damage than anyway?"
Recoil?
Also you can buy 300blacjout off flea market which is like 45pen
There's a simple solution to armor/hp balance in stp realism mod. The damage multipliers. For example, a bullet hits the center of the thorax. It deals 100$ damage. If it hits the side area of the thorax, which isn't protected by the plate, but doesn't have important organs behind it, the bullet deals about 60-70% damage (i don't remember the exact number), bur it's still applied to the thorax
That could work but it'd make a whole bunch of extra hitboxes and make damage feel even weirder than it already feels.
We still have huge problems with desync and bullet registration , so that idea should be last. They should either buff 556 and 545 or make it so high tier ammo for those two are on the traders
So that IS actually possible? I don't follow the modding scene I came to this idea myself, to lower the damage and pen of a bullet by half of it's degree-of-attack, since this system is already in the game to determine whether a shot to the head will ricochet or not. It would solve alot of issues, but the chest of our models needs to actually face forward towards where we are looking not off to the right exposing our left armpit and ribs like it did and still does now: It's not good from a game design standpoint AND from a realism standpoint.
@@godskitten49 that has been done in realism mod about a year ago, and it works
@@generik7414 yeah, that's a "more hitboxes" solution, but one that puts the lowest stress to the server among all "more hitboxes" solutions
I hate how it is a constant loop of crying, changes, crying, changes... Armor was good and you stood a chance up against chads? REEEEE, stupid armor hitboxes. Armor hitboxes changed? REEEEE, 5.56 dead. it's plain stupid.
thats how balancing in a complex game works tho
@@powercore9277 Except its literally not. Armour was perfectly fine and for once acting like armour. Guess what? Armour only should cover exactly were the plates are and no more. People were cry babies because they don't realise how small armour plates actually are. Everyone had a fairer chance and all guns were pretty much viable again alongside different ammo types. This has nothing to do with balancing and all to do with cry babies not liking being able to tank everything except the top tier.
@@AcausalMonolith we get it you need a lucky hit to hit people
@@AcausalMonolithjust say you’re a shitter lol
@@AcausalMonolith BSG was dumb making a realistic armor plate system on a very unrealistic HP pools system, they should have reworked the thorax a bit to launch the .14 patch, but the state it was at the beginning was clearly far better then the walking tank we have now. BSG just need to add vitals, buff Thorax hp by 10 or 15, and rollback the walking tank patch, it would be perfect
I will go to my grave saying that changing the armour system back to the old style and away from the physical plates being the hitbox was pure cowardice on the part of BSG and kowtowed to streamers mad they couldn't sweat to T6 armour and be invincible Wkey machines. Put it back and make thorax act more like the stomach whenit gets blacked out and add a new inner thorax "vitals" hitbox that gets covered by the avg plate size.
Hopefully they are just reworking it behind the scenes.
I would actually be so down for a "vitals" hitbox that has maybe 10hp and the outer thorax having 75 but the "vitals" always being covered by plates. So if you get pumped full of 9 mil PST the blunt damage still takes you out.
@@Tyler-sl6vg they are definelty not lol. streamers happy = bsg happy.
But a game like Tarkov can’t go the route you want it to you say bsg caters to streamers but the core way to play in Tarkov is leveling up getting better gear and ammo and using said gear to fight other players the problem with last armor change was too fast ttk which won’t work in a game like Tarkov
idk you guys want the game to respect your time but them spout stuff like this and streamers rule the game but in reality you will lose to people who play this game a lot armor change or not the only thing that definitely needs reworking is the ammos pen and damage and the only armor change that would work would be maybe adding slight weak points in armor like armpit or neck or legs which would make it more possible for poor people to take out chads but your opinion of the old armor just won’t be a good thing in a game like Tarkov where if you die you lose everything
Also making tier 6 plates fir only and maybe adding more spawns to maps like reserve or lighthouse would make the armor not feel as bad to lower tier bullets but would reward players who loot and extract
So you want to introduce a system with RNG where only a select few armors are viable? Got it
Armor update (ordinal plate) was ok itself, the health system needed adjustment. BSG decide do a hot fix that was just terrible. 7.62x39 guns are off the menu cuz you cant get enough BP's same with 5.56 and 5.45 guns. You pretty much forced to use 7.62x51 or SVDS
BS in 5.45 still do the gob
@@cazaconaire-supervivencia-396 do you got them at traders? I don't think so
@@mn1907 I am a woods main, plenty of spaws there, 120 ammo pack mostly
I loved this wipe, new armor system was great, early wipe felt amazing. The armor re-change more recently seems like such a silly step backwards, such a shame
It's a tricky balance. I think the new armor is 'better' because it's more consistent, and superior armor actually feels better, which it didn't before. So progression feels more meaningful now - but the new system is definitely more unfair between newer/less experienced players and the sweats. So it kinda depends where each person sits on the balance perspective - I personally feel that the new system can be OK so long as the meta stuff gets balanced out. Class 4-6 used to feel basically the same because everyone was in effect running class 3 due to the tiny plate size. More level playing field but progression felt pointless.
I see both sides of the discussion tbh
Personally I’d rather have a more level playing field overall.
That being said the only way this works well imo is if they had added another hitbox the actual plate covers
@@GigabeefNah the first system was great, what they should have done was rework the player hitboxes and hp pools because it doesn't make sense that a hit to the shoulder equals to one to the heart or lungs lol.
@@vali69 The first system was just as bad stop lmao. Big ass bralo that did not protect shit .
@@GigabeefI really believe they should have changed the damage model rather than the armor. IRL plates cover where they cover because that’s where the vital organs are located. A glancing thorax blow should not equal a direct hit.
This would have made the new armor system feel much better imo.
I think that the previous armor hitbox for plates was nice and that they should have reiterated on it instead of scrapping it and make the plates just cover the whole thorso. Changing the thorax hitbox(inner lethal hitbox, outer non-lethal hitbox) would have been nicer than what we currently have.
Currently, the armor system makes PMCs tankier than ever before(having to go through a layer of soft armor+a plate is 2 layers), while plates apparently are working at full effectiveness regardless of durability and high-pen ammo availability being the lowest it's ever been. If you add all these factors together we end up in a weird state where TTK is higher than even pre-plates system.
Feels like this was a kneejerk reaction to the Unheard drama.
bro plates do not work at full effectiveness regardless of durability lol, went factory and shit on a guys armor with a rpd. literally 0'd his plate out. put his armor on without checking plate and walked upstairs to third floor cause i heard his boy up there. instantly got shredded first few bullets through the front of the armor, straight in the chest, no pen ammo LOL. I was so shocked, only knew what happened cause my boy took him out and checked the armor i was wearing after i was dead. + not looting for ammo does not mean its not available, every raid i spawn in the ammo boxes are always left unlooted. free m995, ssa ap, ppbs, etc. I don't mean running raids as pmc either, I can run scav raid and go afk until 8 min is left in raid and go loot ammo care free knowing barely anyone is left around
I've said it before but the hitbox changes were a performance optimisation not a gameplay motivated change. Obviously they have a gameplay impact, but reducing the number of calculations needed for the hitboxes is going to increase performance. IMO it was a poor change and should have been approached in a more constructive way but they went for the simplest change they could and this is what we got.
Na keep it as in please
I find it works best when I look at 5.56 like a machine gun cartridge from war thunder. The tracers do no damage so an entire mag of M856A1 is useless. My custom preset for mag load is what I call the "Universal Belt". SSA AP, M995, M855A1, M856A1, and a Warmage at the end of every 5 round burst. It's important to only use full auto to maximize the effect. This method also increases the longevity of the found in raid ammo... the hurdle of this method is knowing and accepting that 1 or 2 out of 5 of the bullets fired aren't going to do anything against armor, but if hitting a face hit box directly with warmage it will 1 tap. It's a gamble.
The problem is that they moves m856 to LL4 for some reason. Bring it back to a Cult part 1 unlock and bring m855a1 to a LL4 and then 556 would actually make sense to use. Also removing high level ammo crafts from workbench L3 was a wild change because you have no access to 556 aside from FIR 995 and 55a1. It makes the whole round unusable and the armor changes didnt swap the meta at all and everyone runs around with a MDR with m62 at the minimum and there is very little room for anything other than that, the spear and a 556 with 995 in it.
BSG had to give damaged armor to Arena players because the undamaged ones were tanking way too many bullets, and there's absolutely no way to argue that the armor was too overpowered in Arena but not in Tarkov. If they aren't going to revert the armor changes, on the very least they need to reduce the maximum durability of armor or change the effective damage reduction formula that uses durability as one of its factors in order to let 5.56, 5.45 and SMG rounds actually have a fighting chance, otherwise the next wipe will only have players using 7.62 MDRs or Spears because they shoot higher caliber bullets that have both good penetration and good damage, unlike SSA AP which penetrates well but tickles the armor if it blocks the bullet.
They also need to completely change the availability of ammo because back when 0.14 had just launched it came with a bunch of nerfs to bullets which only made sense with armor plates that were smaller, but now that they are bigger there was no reversion to the bullet nerfs that came with 0.14. If nothing is changed I'm seriously considering not to bother playing the next wipe because of how awful it will be to use early-wipe bullets against PMCs wearing T-90 tank armor around their torso.
The worst part is plates are so much better than old armor, but it was kinda balanced because they covered less area. Now they cover what old armor covered but are still way better. To make things more like how it was before they really do need to lower plate durability, or make only ceramic plates common and the rest fir only. Also arms are a big factor I think, 556 does 20-25 damage after hitting blacked out arms and 308 is still doing 40. Plus you can't pen arms without 50+ pen ammo now.
At this point, 5.56 is just dead in the water. If it could never pen armor, it had to literally has to hit flesh to deal its full POTENTIAL damage.
It's possible that M995s were removed from crafting to promote the arena, because for one Lega medal you can get Grumpy's hideout key, the room it opens spawns a lot of rare ammo. In five key openings, I collected a whole container of SSA AP and M995s.
And still I’ve only gotten one lega
rip nashi but facts, loot areas that are meant to spawn ammo. labs red keycard is expensive but always spawns ammo, ground zero has ammo spawns and is literally the *noob map*, you can go streets if you can run it, theres just so many options. I'm chilling rn with hundreds of the *unlootable* ammo, probably because nobody goes and loots for them
Most people don't pick up mag spawns on the maps either and they usually carry high tier ammo. It doesn't take long to unpack a mag so idk why people forget to check these either. I rarely have problems collecting high tier ammo, but I also mix mags with high tier and mid tier ammo since you rarely need more than a few shots of the good stuff to make your lower tier stuff effective.
Abismal that they basically make me play clash of clans with upgrading and crafting time in a game that already eats so much time.
Crafting 120rnds to Potentially lose 90rnds instantly is wild. (I usually carry 3 mags or so full of it)
Learn to half pack mags man. Not too hard. You don't need 30 rounds of high tier bullets. 15 should be more than enough to shred armor, then high flesh damage bullets to clean up the kill. Then you lose 45 bullets instead of 90.
I would say among many others, this wipe was probably the best ever until they reverted to the old armor system, this alone says everything we need to know around balancing. Because balancing it's the key word here, it simply made it accessible to play even to less experienced players and many of them made a step towards being experienced thanks to this wipe and its plates system. Now it's all gone, lowering the percentage of survival if not "meta-geared" (or simply higher level) by a ridiculous ammount and making the game almost unplayable for those who have little time, and I am NOT one of them, but still, the key word its balancing. And that is why the super late wipe always felt stale after a while, with the plates system this was already been dealt with, allowing different gear loadout to face a wider gear loadout. If they really want to remain on this older armor system, they should rebalance almost every round in it's category for the next wipe.
na current armor is good. hope they dont change a thing
Not gonna lie, I kiiiinda enjoy it that for once the M4 isn't THE meta gun in the latewipe. On the other hand tho what replaced it ( aka, Spear, SA-58, MDR, etc. ) is by far worse than that.
Almost every gun lost something and players became bullet sponges even against 7.62x51
To be fair the sa 58 being the meta gun is a throwback to when market was new meta
It actually feels like armor is armor again its crazy aye. Time to kill isnt a micro second
The streamers cried like babies until bsg made them back into Abrams tanks. Pathetic.
I'm probably in the minority, but I preferred the small plate hitboxes, this game is already a dice roll in most aspects, so giving lower skilled/ worse geared players a chance against more skilled/ richer opponents, I thought was totally fine. IRL if you take 2 buckshot's to the chest, unless you are wearing INSANE bodyarmor, you're probably going down.
I feel like BSG make changes but don't think of the knock on effect. They will need to make m855a1 buyable from PK 4, or/and craftable eariler doing the quest. Possibily allow M995 craftable from a quest somewhere in the mid 40s level.
At the very least, the high fire rate and mods can help the 556 platforms perform decently as long as you have the high pen. The same cannot be said for 545 which is in a worse position than 556. All the AK platorms that use 545 have an RPM as slow or slower than the black MDR, using ammo that has no where near the damage needed with recoil that makes it harder to handle than even some of the 762x51 platforms.
It will be hard for BSG to rebalance this.
I knew we were back in the old days when i was lying on the ground with an MP5 shooting shit rounds against a lad with level 5 who took an entire mag and didn't even flinch. so i also traveled back to the old days and put a mag into his legs and watched him drop. we truly are back.
BSG Please revert armor system:
Early patch 0.14 was amazing! New recoil system, new content like the snow, new map, ... and of course the new plate system with a réalistic sized protection.
This was awesome ! With these changes we could FINALLY play all calibers with different types of ammunition! Everyone was a real threat to everybody even the high end chad with best gear.
This has changed the way of playing. rather than W key in the open field like a Juggernaut it was necessary to adopt a more tactical style.
This was a good way to balance big armors (T5 and T6) and ammunitions. This allowed a wide range of equipment to be viable beyond early wipe.
But since they have resized armors hitboxes a month or two ago, the balancing has disappeared and the old meta is back.
Useless guns and ammos are now very common and only a sample of all available equipment is playable. Such a waste!
I think late wipe is hated in part because of that. Everyone brings the same gear and those who fall outside the meta are at a disadvantage in PVP.
This "NEW" armor system is a very bad move for balance, tactical gameplay and fun.
I hope someday BSG will bring back realistic sized plates (with minor tweaks) for a REAL HARDCORE gameplay shooter expérience!
TY :)
Yep, first plate system was amazing. =(
That's what I haven't stopped saying since the beginning of the change. Ever since Nikita showed us his tin box hitbox, I knew what to expect.
I really wish bsg did this, man I missed out on a few nice updates
Nope never change it again please.
At the end of the day it pretty much always comes down to "What round has the best pen for full auto weapons that you can simply buy from traders or the market". High end find only ammo hardly gets used because you can never really stockpile it in ways that actually matter, and I get BSG probably wants you to mix high pen rounds with lower pen ones but it doesnt quite work in practice.
They should increase ammo spawns of high tier ammo. Ive gotten 76 rounds of ssa ap during the entire wipe and im lvl 58
tarkov players when armor doesn’t work: 😡
tarkov players when armor does work:😡
Tarkov players when : 😠
Yeah people say the time to kill is too fast but then they make it longer and everyone is still pissed.
At 23:30, you can actually spot a dude upstairs who sees you and goes prone. I believe that was the guy that got you at the end - probably was up there the whole time!
Did they remove thunder and lightning from the game when it rains? I know the rain is super loud and often annoying but I always thought their thunder sounds were on another level
It's like they always do a complete 180... Armor too small? Now it is back to what it used to be where the size of the armor plate is completely disregarded and even completely covers your side, even though all there is in there is naked, unprotected torso...
BSG throwing and it's not for content.
I preferred the last system, made big bulky armor feel like it had a purpose. Now its back to slick spam with Class 6 plates in it covering 90% of your torso. People say it messed with Balance but I think it was better because you still needed better aim. Yeah the size might be smaller but if you hit those slots you'd do substantially less damage so you NEEDED to hit those soft targets or use meta ammo. Now you NEED meta ammo and aiming is an afterthought.
I definitely think that there needs to be some ammo/gun availability changes that happen late into wipe, like 5 months into wipe mechanic will get a new quest anybody can accept that says kill 30 scavs or whatever, and you can craft ammo like ssa ap, ammo availability is one of the more interesting ways tarkov can be balanced.
If BSG changed at what angle the thorax faces when facing forward (it faces to the right exposing your left armpit and the side of your ribs that weren't protected by plates) we could have mitigated a good chunk of the 'growing pains' of the initial armour rework system. Alongside a far better (but not perfect: M62, Hybrid FMJ, CBJ etc.) ammo vs armour availability progression, and the recoil rework, pretty much everything was viable aslong as you had ok ammo. And as for dying to scavs, well, I think riloe said it best when he said 'scavs are the most immersion breaking feature in eft': Scavs are LONG in line for a complete overhaul that, we unfortunately will probably never get.
The armor system just doesn’t work without another hitbox for heart/lungs that the plate covers
I've come back after a bit of time (basically since the armor changes). I've learned pretty quickly to just head hunt even more than normal. Not finding it too bad with 855 because the recoil is so bloody good now. God I hope they don't touch the recoil 😅
how did you clear the malfunction at 4:51 while still being able to ADS? Does the skill mastery of the weapon affect this aswell as reloading while ADSd?
I liked the new armor rework before they stepped back, it forced both new players and experienced players on the same level. forced both players to outplay/outsmart the other and keep their guard up until extract rather than brute forcing each other due to the reliance on gear. I used to bring smoke and flash nades to outplay them, now people just sit and take shots like good boys and girls because they're equipped to do so. I would yield a bit on the armor re-change, but not to the point where you are an armored cube or if they placed in a mechanic if you were to fall unconscious from taking too much blunt damage. Perhaps an ideal change would be rework the specific plate types and allow plates to be purchased from corresponding vendors (up to class 5. Class 6 must be found or bartered for rare items) after completing tasks.
The problem is people don't want to outsmart or outplay. They want to outgear and then claim it was all them.
It is a hard thing to balance rounds like 5.56 and 5.45 since they rely heavily on getting through armour and nothing else, the old armour system played into that making the rounds a bit more effective when they hit through the weak points of the different armours since they could do a bit more flesh damage, now after the armour buffs their is almost no reason to use them since better rounds in better calibers are available in mass quantity as well (not to say they weren't before).
Making 5.56 and 5.45 crafts and traders purchases less restrictive might ease the blow of the armour buff but until either the armour gets adjusted a bit or ammo gets re-adjusted to fit with the new changes, 5.56 and all entry level and intermediate catridges are not going to be worth running at all now.
Either rng deaths being able to use any guns/ammo. Or consistent deaths with only 4 guns to work
Good fight and thank you for the video. Now I understand the situation much better.
Shotguns 😢
new armor system is really great for pvp, but most ammo need rebalance for sure: especially shotgun ammo
Yeah pvp is really great fights last a whole quarter of a second where one of the players clicks their full auto 7.67+ mm rifle over the shape of the enemy player 😑
556 seems like they are pellets now
oh ive been shot nothing but the skin of my left side? I'm instantly dead heart stopped
I was thinking when they announced the recent armor changes they are too much and I still think its bad... I had plates tank over 10 m80s and bsg needs to either nerf plates or give us a chance to kill some1 by finding a gap in the armor again imo.
It feels like when something is ‘broken’ in Tarkov it exists in a loop of everything else in the game. Devs are somehow unable to fix things without ‘breaking’ something else
the problem is that high tier 556 is not easy to get and hard to find not like 545 that you could just go to woods and get a ton of ammo thats the main problem
My experience is 855a1 stacked on 856a1 in 40 rounders works well. I reload a lot and often use the AUG aiming for the head. It's a laser and good ergo with the Mini Monster. I also once dunped 17 6.8 hybrid round into a guy and he survived. I am probably using 5.56 tho more bc its fun and its the first wipe i got past level 15.
I'm curious why punching armor is always the priority when leg meta is pretty viable on its own
I think a big problem with 5.56 in the game is the gameification of the round. It may be smaller than 7.62x39, but it does more terminal damage with most loadings in real life. This extends to M855. It should do less damage than M855A1, but the pen should be about the same depending on the era of M855A1 we're talking about.
I was running m4s with 995 recently and it actually felt great, but very hard to sustain that ammo type at all. Even 55a1 is virtually impossible to keep up on.
If i could describe armor hitboxes before the change in 1 word it would be inconsistent, the anount of times random scavs killed me and 1 of my friends with thorax armpit is truely astounding, but my brother never died to an armpit shot before the armor was changed again
They removed the armpit hitbox, if i'm not mistaken.
I died to armpit literally 4 times, same as majority people around me who play tarkov. I am more than convinced people who „constantly die to armpit hitbox“ are liars who justify their low skill by blaming armour changes
I still run warmeggedon and 100 rounders for leg meta, works pretty decent for that
man is talking about pure facts out of my deepest part of my heart.
The top available pen rounds for any rifle have to reliably one shot any headset compatible / unblocked vision helmets. Right now the problem is probably a little bit the ammo and a little bit the armor with the Bastion being one of the more guilty offenders in the game.
I just watched a Bastion yesterday tank roughly 5 semi-auto 7.62x39 PS rounds and even though that's "budget garbage ammo" it's still pretty unacceptable. As far as I'm concerned PP should probably one one shot any readily available helmet, PS maybe sacrifice the one shot and have a chance of two, and BP is not readily available and should be used to punch right through plates on the core armor or more exotic flea restricted helmets.
I think something like this if we are talking about rifle rounds and ignoring things like the killa/altyn helmets:
Late game armor plate > late game ammo > midgame armor plat > late game helmet = mid game ammo > early armor plate > midgame helmet = early game ammo > early helmet in terms of effectiveness.
Obviously I do like the armor to fend off a couple rounds of equivalent ammo so that when everyone is running to top readily available gear they are still pushed toward headshots, but the head should be the equalizer for somebody not quite as progressed in terms of gear. Helmets that really tank should be heavily restricted and have downsides and ammo that beats these helmets should also be heavily restricted.
the old armor needed a rework and honestly the armor change is not the problem it’s the ammo
So I suggest reworking every ammo caliber to have balanced ratios like the cheaper it is the more accessible and deals more damage than pen but expensive equals less damage but more pen
This system is already in place but with the armor changes is extremely unbalanced which is why ammos like 556 545 919 918 and 762 need buffs or a whole new caliber to balance pen and damage
price and availability also needs to be changed and ammo some ammo needs to be nerfed like 762 and sig hybrid thus brooding the spectrum of builds and guns
They also need to increase the amount of ammo you can craft cause 90-120 bullets of mid ammo is not ideal for balancing calibers
Also another thing they could do is make it easier to max hideout craft speeds not too much but if you’re crafting on the low witching 2 months or less you can max this
Also maybe buffing some guns fire rate and availability will also help
this newest armor iteration is the biggest fuck up bsg has ever done imo. how did you fuck up what we had. this was regarded as one of the best wipes in all of tarkov, and they completely fucked it.
They should make basic 556 more powerful while keeping the M995 out of reach because that is legit OP
5.45 & 5.56 are claimed as weak due to all the cry babies constantly moaning about armor being either OP or shite. The devs have listened and acted now this is what you get.
Now we have old armor with the extra processing problem of the new armor hitboxes, all because people got shot in their side and died constantly because they opened their weakpoints to enemies because of old tarkov combat habits of running side to side.
Couldnt be THEM that needs to change, it MUST be the armor or ammo
Armor was flat-out inconsistent prior to the latest change whether you gave side or front/back shots. There was a clear element of rng to fights wherein a player might get lucky with a burst that happens to armpit or completely dodge their opponent's plates altogether. A knowing player could even take advantage of the massive gaps in front and back plate coverage as long as they ran ammo capable of penning level 2 or 3 soft armor. If BSG's goal was to make armor a lot more relevant in their original pass, they failed-players were disproportionately biasing moderate pen ammo and cheap armor, since as Gigabeef said, high pen was unnecessary and (in my experience/opinion) the latter was just as effective as high end armor. The state of armor now is much more in alignment with the goal they outlined, and objectively better than it was before.
They just need to make higher pen ammo more accessible. The sheer volume of decent ammo that is either FiR only or craftable at low turnaround rates post-quests ought to be revisited.
@@jsingle5 the whole game has been taken from a decent military sim style, to COD/battlefield which has borked all of it. The game mechanics are still majorly flawed, being able to perform 2 actions when only 1 physical is possible. The armour profiles and workings of it have been kled due to all the high speed cod /bf/rb6 muppets looking for a fast paced killing game with super fast run and gun accurately which is physically not possible, at high speed manouvers.
@@graemepennell realism isnt always fun, getting hit by 1 bullet and it luckily hitting you in an exposed area and the fight instantly being over is not fun. the updated armor system is amazing and allows for way better gunfights. having armor that works is too much for people but nobody ever talks about the fact that your leg can get blown off and you can sew it back on in 16-20 seconds.
@@jsingle5 Could it also be better to heavily restrict anything above level 4 armor? Otherwise you just go back to the same problem that we had at the beginning. Making 5 and 6 extremely rare, while also restricting the high pen ammo, at least makes it so the mid tier rounds and armor are useful throughout the wipe. Mid tier should be the normal tier
think the 20:03 guy got you from across the way, there's a room I've seen people snipe from in 2 story that has site on 3 story stairs. lol just unpaused and someone in chat basically said the same thing. it did seem like 2 of the shots came from 2 story because you were getting shot at when you weren't in the hallway but on stairs before you died.
The guy at 23:30 was up there forever just watching you until he finally took a shot lol.
Did you cancel door breach in dorms 2nd floor 214?? How ?
I think BSG now needs to go through all the ammos and do a balance pass. I think the armor is fine. It helps to negate some of those s***** RNG deaths, but if you're going to make everybody a lot tankier, you need to go through and balance out your DPS now and not just have it. So that two or three ammos in the entire game are the only thing that are realistically viable to deal with that tankiness like imagine if you were in an RPG and the devs made a boss have three times as much health as it used to but then didn't implement anyway for your character to get stronger to fight against that. That's basically what we have here
the patch 14 armor system was best tarkov experience, nowdays tarkov is just DUMB
I am honestly ok with 5.56 being kinda shit. It has stood the test of time as being the top choice for many wipes. It’s time to breathe anew and try other guns again. That’s when tarkov is the most fun, when everyone is trying to figure out the best ammo type to use when there’s a bit shakeup. When nothing is meta, everything is meta.
Velocity should affect pen they could just do a multiplier with velocity/barrel length increasing pen. 20in 556 55g m193 goes right through most plates at closer ranges
Nobody talk about how bad shotguns are coupled with the armor and recoil changes.
(in b4 just shoot legs)
yeah, I already do with 5.56 warmagedon
Sad wipe for the 3 shotgun mains out there
?? recoil change made shotguns better. but armour change made shotgun unusable.
bring back the old armor! It was a level playing field!
The armor system at the beginning of the wipe was better, but it didn't work well with the current health system. They should implement some kind of "vitals" hitbox for the thorax and then go back to the original armor rework.
This armor change was so dumb: BSG just going out of their way to keep the "BS" in their name. I literally just don't get why they would make such a global change that just completely ruins the game for the vast majority of players who don't spend their entire lives collecting class 6 plates. Just why?
The "realistic" plate coverage system was perfect-- it made all kinds of ammo and playstyles viable at the "expense" of the top whatever-percent of players who can consistently get top-tier gear not being able to run around almost immune to damage. Those guys already have enough factors swaying the gameplay outcomes in their favor-- top-tier weapons and optics, top-shelf ammo, maxed out passive skills, drug pouches full of stims, etc (to say nothing of the value of exeperience / practice playing the game). In what universe do these players also need to be able to stack class 6 and class 4 armor on their heads so that the only way of killing them in a reasonable amount of time is to hit the "left eye" hitbox? It's absurd.
It's also particularly toxic that the current system basically renders all the commonly-available rifles and bullets useless. Mid-tier 5.45, 5.56, and 7.62x39 weapons and rounds and class 4 armor are like the bread and butter of Tarkov-- the game should be balanced around these rounds and armors as a baseline, and then BSG can decide how they want outliers to fit into the system from there. We just don't need any gameplay systems that make M855 or 5.45 PS like a 20-hit-kill to the thorax (or four plus rounds to the head jesus christ). BSG need to go back to school on diminishing returns: high-end gear should be adding a small percentage to your lethality or survivability over what mid-tier gear gets you, not allowing you to just killdozer your way through swathes of average players because their bullets bounce off of you.
BSG should just put the realistic plate hitboxes back, or even revert all the way back to the original armor system without the discrete plates. Even that was better than the current nonsense where there's full coverage and like zero chance to pen because of stacked armor layers. BSG always do this: one moment they make a change that opens gameplay up to average players, and then they invariably reneg on it and revert the game back to heavily favoring nolifers... it's so fucking dumb. Just let a guy who plays a few hours a week at least be able to pick up a gun that can actually kill other players FFS.
no lifer streamer babies like tigz cried loud enough
I think they should revert back to the plate actual size hit box and instead focus their efforts on adjusting the health system in general. Maybe organ system, I mean I’m spitballing but there needs to be a new approach other then buff or nerfing. This is always full circle. I personally think chest hit box getting hit twice is dumb and should be broken up maybe into more parts
They shouldn’t have just braindead extended the armor hitbox since the armor plate doesn’t work like the old days. They basically just made every armor even stronger than before armor plate update.
I mean it is just extra spicy .22
Personally, I feel like it's fine that 556 is less practical against armor since that's more realistic. I just think that it should be balanced in some other way, so that it is still useful.
People talk about realism but dont realize Ar500 steel plates will bounce 855 all day but a m193 "FMJ" round will zip right through it.
Ceramic armor isn't good for multiple hits.
And realistically no armor is repairable
BSG forgot it's original mission for the game.
Why is your game so bright?
Tbh I think the only way to fix 556 in the current meta is making 56a1 fleable/pk2 55a1 pk 4 and give it a small buff maybe 45/46 pen and bring 995 craft back
What weapon
would you play with lvl 2 traders right now?
Ump-45 carries me to level three traders every time
@@williamwalsh4743 UMP now is terrible
If you have enough money you can buy 762 PP and 300 cbj off the flea market and keep up with the high level players. I would use akm with the thread adapter for the better silencers or obviously the mcx which you can also get on the flea.
@@cazaconaire-supervivencia-396with the low recoil and slower rate of fire, it can still headtap. Along with not having great ammo for other calibers, smgs should be better for lower leveled players since its easier to use and cheper.
@@honk3773 It was my favorite, but the changes to the armor left it very bad, better an AKS74U, lots of good ammunition can be found in woods
With SPT Realism mod, no more problems. With SAIN, no more problems. People who want an arcade game, you get what you wanted. For me, I have found the solution.
I've got a friend whose survival rating in PVE is 54% but with spt it's 97%.
@@Globalnet626 a 97% or even 10% survival rate in SPT could be expected depending on what settings and mods are used. my bet would be that your friend is using some "dad gamer" mods and chose the easiest SAIN preset
Boring
@@waltmansan520 Yes, impossible with normal mod with harder PMCs.
I remember when this game was first released and nikita made a very blunt statement
"THIS game is not for the filthy casuals" 😂
SPT IS BORING AS F IMAGINE BEING SO BAD AT PVP YOU WANT SINGLE PLAYER IN A EXTRACTION SHOOTER 😂 🤡
Everybody hates 5,56. 5,45 - hold my beet
The problem is back then armors were buffed to compensate previous RNG hitboxes, now the hitboxes were changed back and armors were not.
Nerf armors, especially durability.
Add recoil make good ammo easier to obtain boom balance
Immediately after the armor update I told everyone 556 nato is done, and tossed my nato guns
Last wipe 56a1 was at peacekeeper 2 now it’s at 4 with the strongest armor has ever been
For people arguing, Tarkov is a video game that doesn't preach realism on all levels for one. I'll use the argument a streamer made, (StankRat i think)
"you can put on some lip balm to run on dead legs and reattach severed limbs".
Also, the argument of time and resource investment into 556a1 particularly is fair. That lone ammo should get buffed in my opinion; and it's other caliber equivalents to varying degrees. Not saying everything should pen everything, but just enough to do a bit more damage
If you jump crouch in dorms you don't hit your head. You're welcome boys
Tldr: not enough pen for the fire rate
They should just uniformly buff all ammo so it's similar to where it was with the old armor. Not anything insane but buff it a little. All ammo you can buy from traders should be sellable on flea. I can easily get plates but nothing to counteract them unless I play "meta" calibers.
Should BSG bring back 856a1 at peacekeeper 2 for next wipe? Would like to see 556 be a good early game option again.
So how does EFT get their data from armor penetration? is this some what realistic compared to actual real world experiences?
That was the idea, but a bit of creative license is applied (best example is .366 AP-M which doesn't exist IRL)
yea make the plates big square, good idea trust me
I assume this is similar with 5.45 as well?
Oh yeah it’s dog water.
they are coping just get the good ammo
*errm the damage is bad*
you can literally penetrate level 6 plates with ssa ap lol, just loot for the ammo. You will find ssa ap, ppbs, etc. These all penetrate level 6 fairly quickly. Your gun shoots full auto, it's up to you to hit your shots. using good ammo and hitting your shots consistently means you will put people down within 2-7 seconds.
So people are complaining that armor is now doing what it was designed to do?
Aim for the legs. Rat attack
Oh, making your guy a solid block of armor was dumb? I saw that before they made the change
556 is the best caliber outside of the bas-b one for pve.
This game looks so much different without amands 😮
And all this math doesn't matter when I die in two shots to a cheater I never saw or heard....
Wait, you mean when armor was working correctly ammo worked correctly? And now that BSG broke it again because players kept crying the ammo is broken? Wow!
I ran 55a1 in the labs event and it went pretty smooth, around 6 pmc per raid, but yeah, you need to craft it and it doesnt make any sense when you can buy m62 or hybrid from pk, its like they wanted to boost higher calibers this wipe, completely forgetting about 556 and 545, I still feel like the armor system is broken, there is a HUUUUGE gap between lvl6 and lvl5 armor, with lvl6 you are a walking tank, with lvl5 you cant even handle 1 bullet before getting red chest
also
they changed/removed the armpit and decided to put the throat, which is way worse imo
The “new” now old armor was the equalizer for old heads and newer players. Which was a desperately needed change. Don’t know what they were thinking by switching it back. Fools.