Mauser's Gewehr 41(M) Semiauto Rifle
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2015
- / forgottenweapons
When the German military started looking for a self-loading rifle in the late 1930s, they had a pretty strict set of requirements. Most significantly, the rifles could not have gas ports or recoiling barrels, could not have moving parts on top of the action, and had to be capable of being operated manually with a bolt handle like a bolt action Mauser. Four companies tried to get into the resulting rifle trials, but only two were able to build good enough guns to get contracts for field trials. These were Walther and Mauser. Walther ended up winning the competition (largely because they ignored several of the RFP requirements) and their rifle became the Gewehr 43. Mauser stuck to the requirements with their Gewehr 41(M), and it cost them the competition.
So basically this rifle delivered exactly what the Germans wanted which is also why the Germans didn't choose it....
They were on lots of meth
Still typical of German management
As an engineer, I can assure that's how it goes with a lot of projects: the customer says they want something but actually they don't.
As a designer, I agree with the engineer ^
@@as4598 As a customer I agree with both of you hihi ^^
So Mauser followed the ordinance requirements seriously while Walther didn't yet Walther's system was adopted? Mauser must have been pissed...
Yeah, don't work on assault rifles, we need awesome machine pistols!
(Creates assault rifles under a machine pistol name)
Hitler lost that war. Thank goodness.
***** When the customer asks for something certifiably nonsensical, it is a legitimate option to show them what (you think) they should have wanted instead and bet on them realizing that it is better. It is a risk, but it may pay off.
K.C. Rigney And the reason for that were not the STG-44..
*****
Why waste extra time bringing this design to the level of the competition, when there's the competing design ready to go? They can't just waste time like that during wartime.
I'm not saying this design is unusable, just that it makes perfect sense to choose the competition.
*****
As far as I know, the Walther needed no such overhaul, it was just accepted.
It wasn't a great gun, but the Mauser would need an overhaul just to get to its level.
a perfect example of what happens when you give smart people dumb design requirements.
i believe it can be improved to a reliable rifle ...
It was
Toh Zikai It wasn’t...
Having a semi auto and bolt action combined is gonna give more issues that outweigh whatever benefits. Just imagine trying to maintain something like that
Georgi Shpagin guy who designed PPSh 41 said "To design something complicated is simple but to design something simple is really complicated.
Reload: bolt action
Using: striper clip
Fire type: semi
Hotel: Trivago
@@a.cunningham4974 imagine just imagine ..if you was funny ..well you cant cause ya fucking not
@@fritzdaddy-135mmgetstagger4 Imagine aaaallll the peeeeeople
@@fritzdaddy-135mmgetstagger4 Imagine being you.
Mauser really out did themselves. I believe when they were at their peak, if you gave them specifications written by a psychotic they would be able to engineer and make a functioning rifle.
Or at least a semi functioning one. Calling anything that uses the Bang system (epic name it must be said) a functioning anything, other than a doorstop, or a club, is being very generous indeed.
They demonstrably did
@@jacqirius Never claimed to be. But do name me one Bang system based firearm that ran reliably then..
They did
So you mean...this?
"Semi auto but can still be bolt action for you old school plebs"
Bolt actions are more powerful and more accurate, noobs like you need semi auto because you suck!
General liu rifle ftw
I just wanted to let you know that I think of your comment daily in my head.
More like " Bolt action, but it can still be semi-auto for you noobs".
@@ShooterQ living that rent free life
This is a really clever design, I can't believe they accomplished everything the German Government wanted in a gun. What a neat rifle
Ben and the chose the company that didn’t lol
I am actually impressed how well they worked around those ridiculous requirements. Those requirements really are ridiculous. Walther did the right thing by throwing those out the window.
German rifles are always fascinating, mechanically speaking.
Yup, the Germans had some pretty crazy requirements for the first semi auto rifle. Had to look/feel like a kar98k, had to use the same sights (these two aspects aid in transitioning soldiers from the bolt action to the G41 semi auto), had to be able to be manually operated, couldn't have any moving parts on the surface, and there couldn't be any holes bored into the barrel. I remember reading about it a few years ago and found it pretty ridiculous, but this is when the concept of semi auto rifles in the Military was still fairly new. Sure there was the Mondragon, and during WWII there was the Farquahill or whatever that British one was called, but bolt actions were by and large the standard rifle used in war.
The G41(W) did away with the manually operated bolt-action-style bolt and the 'no moving parts bit', ending up in a better rifle. When the superior Tokarev gas piston system was taken from the SVT40 to make the G43, it did away with the 'no holes in the barrel' rule, leading to an even better rifle. It was still heavier than the SVT40 as I recall, and the lack of compensator might mean more felt recoil, but still it was in the same league as the M1 Rifle along with said Tokarev rifle.
I remember talking to this one guy on Steam, claiming that the reason the SVT was taken out of service was because it was a bad design. This isn't true, not by a long shot. In fact it had many superior aspects to even the beloved M1 Rifle! Lighter, adjustable gas, fixed compensator, detachable mag (though I think most reloads was done with clips instead of mags, at best a soldier might have gotten a couple spare mags with half or most of his ammo in clips), and higher capacity by 2+1. The M1 Rifle can only take 8 rounds, I've tried to sneak a +1 on top of a loaded en bloc clip, but I don't think it can be done, so 7+1 is what the M1 is limited to, while the SVT can have 10+1.
That being said, the M1 is easier to maintain, it seems to be inherently more accurate due to the gas system which stretches to the end of the barrel, its sights are definitely better, and there's a compartment in the buttstock for a collapsible cleaning rod, oil bottle, and tools, so each has its benefits.
Anyways, about why the SVT-40 was taken from service; it was actually intended to become the standard issue rifle of the Red Army, with the goal of producing 2,000,000 per year by 1941 (or 1942, can't remember). Well, in Summer 1941, Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union. The first 6 months of the conflict went HORRIBLY for Russia. By December 1941, if memory serves, there were 6,000,000 Russian casualties, 2,000,000 Russian POWs, and over 20,000 tanks taken out of commission (Read about it in STALINGRAD: The Infernal Cauldron by Stephen Walsh).
Long story short, the need for rifles was urgent as many SVT40s were either being lost/destroyed as men were killed/wounded, and many were also being captured as land was quickly taken during Operation Barbarossa. The simple M91/30 bolt action could be made much more quickly and cheaply than the SVT40, so the SVT was cancelled; quantity vs quality. Sure the SVT seemed to have an inherent issue with accuracy which made the POI (Point of Impact) vary noticeably by windage (up and down) as you get out to longer ranges like 500m+, making scoped models of said Tokarev rifles not as useful as scoped models of Mosins or Mausers, but it was still a very effective and reliable design. The average combat distance in WWII was 100-300m, which was WELL within its effective range.
I can't help but wonder though... if the SVT40 can have 1-2 million produced each year... how many Mosins could be produced in a year? 3,000,000? 5,000,000? Millions of PPSh-41s were also produced between 1941-1945, so they were pumping out a cool 1,000,000 or so a year of those as well. The PPS-43 was even EASIER to produce! Russian firearms... absolutely fascinating, often diehard reliable, often very affordable, and often more accurate than people give credit for.
00
They weren't the only ones for most of the early twentieth century every military wanted a automatic rifle ,but it also had to be easily convertible into a straight pull if they so chose the main reason that most countries kept bolt action rifles until ww2 or after! As late as the 60s there were small countries using bolt action rifles as their main battle rifle .
That guy may have been mistaking the SVT-40 for the AVS-36. At least Simonov redeemed himself with the SKS-45.
Mosins have seen a part of 3 centuries of official military use, from the 1800s to the 2000s!
I remember seeing one of these in a gun shop as a kid, probably the only and last time I'll ever see one.
I guess sometimes it pays off to not follow instructions. Mauser did exactly what they were asked for, which is to make a terrible gun fulfilling the demands of a bunch of extremely conservative officers, and it turned out to be a piece of crap, meanwhile Walther ignored the dusty old generals and made a gun that wasn't so utterly bizarre.
Nukle0n Exactly. I'm sure the engineers at Walther said "Screw it. If it's good they won't care."
Yeah but the G41 was still a crap rifle.
It wasn't great but it was s step in the right direction, instead of trying to make a bad idea born of 19th century paradigms come to life.
Nukleon They shouldn't have been trying to make self-loading rifles in the first place with the state of german industry at the time.
@Carnivorus No, it was ridiculously over complex, fragile, and inferior in every way to the M1 and SVT-40 especially
I saw one of those about 12 years ago at Cabela's in Dundee Michigan. It was in like new condition. I was both amazed and horrified by it. I feel sorry for any soldier that had to deal with that. It had to have been problematic to keep running in actual combat conditions! Can only imagine that it was given to rear guards at warehouses and rail heads etc....
saw one for sale for $3,400, remembered I was completely broke.
still have suicidal thoughts
Missed out on 12 grand lol.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I paid that for my g43 lol. A 41 would be cool to have.
I would murder someone for a chance to get that deal
Krauts and their bloody space magic engineering. What were they thinking with this?
Benign Gamer same thing they were thinking when they made a railway gun that needed four tracks to even move. Although their space engineering came in real handy in the space race.
@@knots2524 They have builded that gun to tear down the Marginot line. But France was already defeated when it was ready.
I insist that you don`t use that shamefull Kraut therm.
Der Alman'ach we’ll stop using that term as soon as the rest of the world stops calling us Yankees. In the meantime, enjoy being offended.
@@DJSpike-ft9yw Silence !
This is an amazingly over engineered marvel. Really fascinating firearm.
The gunsmithing version of _be careful what you wish for._
It would've been cool to see a Walther design next to this one to see how Walther "cheated". Great video!
That video just dropped.
I actually saw a pair of G41s at a local gun shop once; one Walther and one Mauser. As I understand, they came from an estate sale. I was just kind of mystified, since I never expected to see either version in person.
Just like to say thank you Ian, for your excellent Forgotten Weapons channel which I have watched with much enthusiasm for many years now. Keep up the good work for many more years to come.
Came here after seeing the Walther video. I think it was good to see the successful product first and "what the customer ordered" as the second part. Great stuff, thanks!
Also came here ater the Wather video
Always a pleasure to watch you at work. Your delivery is top flight, manual dexterity frighteningly precise, and your ability to understand a system/action in short order impressive as heck.
straight-pull bolt pulled by gas system with bolt action simulator........
How marvelous but useless, unfortunately.
Thats basically how all gaspiston systwms operate. The piston just pushes the bolt directly insted of through a charging handle.
Forgotten Weapons
Thanks Ian. That is a lesson in engineering, right in your hands. I never realised that anyone would have actually tried to combine bolt and semi-auto loading before.
Very well described and explained. Thank you for the tour of this design.
Cheers,
Dean
I love history and your videos regarding all these historical guns are just so cool.
Fantastic video. Great technical description. Learned a lot. Great close up shots and explanations. Again strong work.
Love these videos. Full of technical history and it's fascinating seeing some rare firearms. I'm curious how often these less common weapons are found in fully working order?
Great video man, very detailed and informative..I've learned a lot from you videos and they help me get a better understanding of how things work together..keep up the great work man, you really should have your own tv show
Those poor soldiers that got issued this monstrosity must have been told it was a great honor to use this modern technical marvel. Think of how many mp-40's and 44's and ammo they could have made for the same cost as this thing that would actually work in the cold.
This might seem stupid, as does the Walther version because of the funky gas-trap system but if you think about why they did it that way, it certainly doesn't seem as terrible anymore.
Well technologically terrible at least, the morally terrible side is a completely different story.
They never got issued this monstrosity because this design lost. Did you even watch this vid and if you did how drunk were you? LOL you even got a bunch of thumbs up which means lots of people watch Ian DRUNK HAHAHA Epic!
@@ge0arc244 3:05
@@turczech You are right I am wrong, I must have been drunk. Hahaha
@@ge0arc244 No just annoying and self righteous.
Thank you for presenting this rifle. It would be a great piece for a collection. Not on my "bucket list" however.
Mauser : You want a bolt action rifle or a semi automatic rifle?
Waffenamt : Yes.
Really extraordinary and masterful description of weapons mechanics. Can really appreciate the individual genius of gun engineering. Thank you for your artful instruction.
the is quite an interesting gun, amazing the week that went into it, a shame that it was overly complex, but its complexity is part of its charm.
my favorite forgotten weapons videos are these prototype WW2 semi-auto rifles!! thank you
Anyone else sent back in time by Tom from Legacy in 2022? He's so right, Ian does a great job giving us a detailed look at these rifles, the history, the mechanical features, just fantastic. Thanks Ian and Tom 😁
thank you for another great, free video that was very informative
I cannot imagine how much this cost compared to the walther version. An incredible amount of 1 off machining processes.
Truly beautyfull machining the work of masters.
Really really cool design!! Wow.
is it just me or is the bolt handle on the 41M in the same place as the KP-31 machinegun?
+Catt Yeah, more or less. Also the MP-35.
Wow!! What an interesting rifle!!! I would love to see one shot!
Insane machining on this gun..!
Its a pleasure, to watch your Videos :)
Thank you for posting this. A friend's father had been issued a G41(M), when he was assigned to a Luftwaffe antiaircraft unit. His account was that it worked well when clean, and I can see why now.
I mean, the same applies to roller delayed blowback guns. We really don't criticize them enough for that.
Really enjoyed that!
The G41 was developed by Walther not by Mauser.
The Confusion may occur as Mauser delivered the stock in order to standardize the production - but in fact, the G41 and G43 are from Walther
Just when I thought my Mauser collection was complete...I see this video...thanks a lot.....
Holy crap, I didn't think there were any of these around
Definitely a bucket list rifle.
Wow, imagine the difficulty in clearing a jam where the bolt fails to go fully forward. Looks like the bolt being partly back would prevent you from being able to lift the bolt handle.
I had a G43 that was beautiful to fire, however the bolt locking lugs failed after the firing pin housing collapsed inward, causing the locking lugs to partially retract. I only got powder burns up the side of the face though. It appeared on examination the firing pin housing was what forced the locking lugs to engage in the receiver. When the housing collapsed (or broke) the lugs retracted too soon and the bolt tried extracting the cartridge prematurely pulling the cartridge back end off. Bloody shame, loved firing that rifle. Still have those locking lugs with the failure clearly seen on them. Possible the lugs failed and put too much pressure on the firing pin housing when they did.
This is a work of art.
Mud says Naah
you know its going to be a great day when ian says hes excited to show you something
The fitting and engineering on this is crazy
I wouldn't try to imagine how hard quality control would drop if it was really pressed into mass production because I think I know what shall happen.
Iv always thought this is an awsome way to meet all the requirements imposed on them
Not a big gun person but I love how explains the history behind the gun… very interesting
“It is a doozy”
-Gun Jesus
Holy cow, the price estimate.
I think I'll get a car instaed. Thank you sir.
GeFlixes Like I said, they are very scarce. IMO, that price estimate is, if anything, conservative for an example in such good condition.
Forgotten Weapons Condition can be the most important determining factor in many cases. Not always logical but the guy with fat wallet determines the worth very often.
Has to be one of my most favourite guns you've ever had on your channel. I don't know why I like it so much, though, because I know the Walther is a better rifle overall, but this one... This one is just so simply complex (if that's possible) that it gets me excited. VERY nice rifle, ahead of it's time (for at least 15 years haha).
Doubt you will ever read this, considering how old your comment is, but what did you mean by "ahead of it's time"? This rifle, while being very interesting as a design and certainly a big accomplishment for the engineers who managed to pull this off, it is certainly not ahead of it's time. It is not even behind, it is just one of those weird designs which resulted from poor understanding of what a self loading rifle should be. The Germans who decided on the requirements simply made bad choices which resulted in a rifle which was, while being a very interesting piece of engineering, just unnecessarily complex and extremely prone to malfunction. Clearly, they realised their mistake, since they adopted the Walther design, even though that was also prone to malfunction because of the gas-trap system.
Great channel
Can you find a Remington Rolling block to review? I have one myself and have been doing my best to research its model and date info but rather hard with difficult to read data stamps.
Worthy to note the importance of an upfront “design criteria“. Basically getting behind the technical specs and look at “what problem are you trying to solve by this technical spec?“. Seems like more often than not the technical spec doesn’t fully embrace the underlying (real or perceived) issue.
So that’s basically a straight pull rifle like the mannlicher m95 with added recoil spring and gas system. I don’t think they added something new or innovative but they did a great job combining everything together
Did so few G41(M) rifles survive that there are no shooting videos? I see Walthers and G43s, but no mausers.
As a kid and as a teen you have this pretty narrow perspective of the great wars. I just to have this concept of US Thompson M1911, Garand and Thompson smgs. German MP40, G43, C96. Russian PPSH 41, Mosin Nagant rifle etc. But the more you know you realize the amount and variety of different weapons, uniforms, vehicles etc. The Thompson SMG alone had many different variants, there where also many other smgs like the M3 Grease gun and the list goes on.
An interesting safety, but doesn't that mean that if you pull the trigger when that is engaged the safety becomes a trigger?
How does the trigger's sear work? Is it spring loaded, or does it have to be reset?
Mega Gaming it is machined so that the safety is perfectly in-line with the sear so that the sear has enough room to come back up
What do you think is the better rifle This one or the AG42B?
I like the video good stuff
Too much for my little brain. I prefer bolt action OR semi auto. This concoction is a disaster. It's too complicated for the simple minded infantry man. There's also the problem of jamming in trench/mud/field conditions. I would say this is a typical government decision
Interesting how the bolt locks in to a receiver, similar to a M16 style of lock up (as opposed to the much more common tilting bolt in the same era).
VERY INTERESTING gun, love it
Over the last five decades I've seen a handful of WWII photos of Nazi soldiers carrying these rifles but the captions to the photos never identified the weapon only the approximate date, location and occasionally the unit. Until this video I had no idea what I was looking at, rifle wise, and had assumed it was a limited or specialized run of Mauser rifles due to the bolt that I could see in the above mentioned photos. Thanks for this educational video.
Does anyone know if there is ANY footage available online of one of these being fired?
Thank you for the answer
Pretty slick for a design constraint that wasn't upheld.
So this is the famous Gewehr bolt semi-auto system. I always liked the Mauser, and the truth that this rifle always intrigued me. Ingineria interesting.
It would look so sweet next to my G-41 (W) and in my collection!
What does the tab at the back of the magazine do? It looks very similar to a magazine release but the G 41 doesn't have one
My friend had a G41 M he lost in a fire a couple years ago along with a 100 other WWII german guns
Thanks for finding one of these, I've always wanted to see the internals. For such a messed up gun, it sure does look nice. Did the gas trap at the end make it feel front-heavy?
***** Not really. I've done some shooting with my G41(W), and found it to actually be a slightly more pleasant gun to shoot than the G43.
Forgotten Weapons I'd imagine all the stamped part on the G43 make it lighter, and thusly less able to absorb the recoil.
Do you think you'll ever do another video on the G43?
I wonder if there is a way to attend to the bolt-action/semi-auto hybrid requirement in a way that it is very simplified and reliable. Taking the Kar98k's bolt action system and then mashing it up with the SVT's semi auto system somehow just to make an effective weapon with the classic feel of a bolt-action rifle in a way that it is incredibly accurate and reliable on the field. If there is a way of making it full-auto, like the Mp35 was with it's apparent bolt-action system just to chamber the weapon, it would surely be very interesting.
There would be an advantage: if the weapon jams, you would still be able to use it as the classic Kar98k. The disadvantage is that it was done in a quite horrific way, but imagine if it was simplified to the point it became something standart to all armies in the world.
Anyway, this entire unecessary text just to ask this: Is it possible to attend to this specific requirement while still making the weapon simple, reliable and function, on pair with the Gewehr 43?
If anyone can answer to this specific question, I would be glad to read it, I'm really curious to know how it could be done in a very effective way.
Does the charging handle function if the bolt is jammed half-open? Beautifully constructed Rube Goldberg committee design!
Ian, do you think you could find an example of a Beretta M12 to do a video on?
Wow. That's a lot of information to take in. I feel like I just got out of trigonometry class, entirely inconfident that I understand everything I've just been taught.
Just wondering, when on safe then press fire and then switch safe to fire. Will the bolt always stay in place? Because spring keeps pushing on holding pin from fire and setting safe mode followed by pressing fire could release it a bit.
Omg, I want that perfect condition sling! 😍... I want the gun too lol, but man that sling would look good on my minty G41w. K98 slings like that are nearly impossible to find these days 😭
Would the gas piston be powerful enough to kick the bolt handle in addition to the bolt backwards, if the recoil spring would not be engaged?
I would think some system would prevent this from happening, even if the handle was not turned to the side and locked into the stock. It seems the gun is fully in battery before the bolt handle is turned, but the handle itself is not yet locked. I'm assuming there is some sort of trigger safety preventing the fire pin extension from moving forward, unless the bolt handle is turned sideways?
Otherwise it would be a pretty bad face smasher, if someone in haste did not turn the bolt handle enough, the nub engaged the whole handle instead of the recoil spring system inside the handle and the whole handle comes backward from the receiver.
they are very rare, but you guys should try to get your hands on a AVT-40 soviet automatic rifle! i saw someone on youtube shoot one in very low quality, but they looked like a pig!
Tankie Frankie do you mean svt 40 because they are not rare at all. I found one in a local gun store for 1500 and he said it was the 3rd svt 40 to come through his store.
Catwithanm16 The AVT was a variant of the SVT that was capable of fully automatic fire. It was ultimately not successful. Forgotten Weapons actually has a Testing Report page from the AVT on their site (google "Forgotten Weapons AVT" and it's the first link).
Avengerr thanks.
Tankie Frankie An AVS-36 would be more interesting.
Catwithanm16 no i mean the automatic version called the AVT-40. there are a couple of videos of them on youtube, and they are in the video game red orchestra 2.
This would have been perfect for the roller delay system if it was around. Instead of the cocking tube in front, hook it around and bring it to the back to make a small bolt handle and would have been perfect
4:35 strictly speaking the hot, ever expanding gas is moving faster than the bullet ( or it would not be continuing to accelerate the bullet down the length of the barrel ). The gas passes the channels and vents through them before the bullet has even left the end of the muzzle. Obviously, after the bullet has left the muzzle does the excess gas comes out.
Imagine being one of the geniuses behind the design of this rifle. You made the best possible rifle based on the requirements, then some other company just ignores the rules and your work was for nothing because the conditions were kind of stupid to begin with.
Besides the Eastern Front, they were used in Northern Italy, 43-45, mostly by SS units, in scattered issue...looks like one per squad or section. ( from period photos)
DocAV
Mauser designers after reading the requirements: "We're gonna have to channel the Swiss spirits for this one"
Could you do a comparison of the Walther and Mauser models? To point out similarities and differences?
So awesome!!!!
What happened to doing videos in the underground bunker like with the EM-2?
Thank you so much for this! What a rifle!
How would you rate the quality of manufacturing?
Did I miss something? If one was to fire the rifle with the bolt up, not engaging the recoil spring, is there a safety to stop the bolt from hitting the firer in the face a la Ross?
I really wish I knew the history behind the contracting of the Walther version. God knows there were critical design reviews and government inspection into what Walther was doing, and it would have been very clear that they were disregarding customer requirements.
Methinks the ordinance board knew their requirements were bogus very early on, or decided to simply to a field test between designs to realize just how complex was too complex. Remember that it really was a trials phase in many, many ways.
What happens if you are firing on semiauto and the bolt fails to go into battery? It looks to me as if the stud on the bottom of the bolt would then be in the recoil spring channel in the charging handle (with the bolt action handle in the down and locked position) due to the bolt not being in the completely forward position. Would this prevent you from rotating the bolt action style charging handle up in order to pull it back and clear the rifle? It doesn't look as if there is anything to use as a "forward assist" to move the bolt forward and if you cant rotate the charging handle up, I don't see how you would retract the bolt.