Amazing stats, 2 years ago I'm not sure MEP wins 7 of 9 points at the net or 70% of second serve points. It's like when they taught Happy Gilmore how to putt.
I'm definitely not saying this to denigrate Joel, and it's also very hard to tell when someone's playing MEP (having to generate all your own power definitely changes the game), but I don't feel Joel would be playing anywhere near the 4.5 level if he were playing USTA. His serve is reliable but not a weapon and he has a very good topspin forehand, but in this match he looked more like a high 3.5/low 4.0 player. If Joel or Ian is reading this, what does he self-rate at, or what level would you consider him? Thanks for sharing, was definitely a fun match to watch!
@@user-be5qg7mr1s wasn’t talking about MEP. Throttle back chief. I also saw MEP get beat by a 4.0 from Milwaukee. Every cities ranking metrics are different if you don’t understand that then I can’t help you.
@@user-be5qg7mr1s I've seen all of MEP's UA-cam matches, and that's the comparison I'm making. Again, it could be specific to Joel's game, but comparing to both the Topher match on Essential Tennis (who I believe was competing at 4.0 at the time) and the majority of his matches on TennisTroll, this is definitely the most one-sided of MEP's matches I've seen, including against Acing Tennis who was 4.0 at the time. Just from this video, Joel seems to me like a player with 4.0+ strokes who's playing at 3.5 due to intangibles. I was just interested in seeing where Ian would rate him and where he would rate himself. Hopefully he played against some of the other TennisTroll guys to give further comparison. And yes, MEP would absolutely destroy me. I'm a low-4.0 player who struggles against skilled pushers.
@@HeavyTopspin I think you’re kinda right about Joel. He can hit an occasional good shot but almost every 3.5+ player can. I believe Acing tennis lost 3,3 to MEP. So, not too lopsided. Hoping he has more vids soon.
I don't think a slower serve is more effective than a fast serve. But I do think people don't vary the speed of their serves enough. Serving should be treated like pitching, but people for the most part only vary placement and spin. If you vary pace as well this is another variable the returner has to deal with.
Oh yes. If I need a quick and easy point in a pinch, I almost always throw in a super slow serve as a first resort. It certainly doesn't always work, especially if the opponent is super dialed in, but it works often enough that it's one of my first go-tos.
@@automaticsweetheart2009 I have a change-up serve, where I swing my arm just as hard or even harder, but I shift my feet in a way that takes my body out of the shot and it doesn't go as fast. It can be very effective when hit right at the opponent.
Actually the type of spin that is applied can affect the pace of the serve. The nature and high trajectory of a kick serve results in a slower serve compared to a slice serve. I was a baseball pitcher that relied on throwing breaking pitches so I easily adapted to hitting flat, slice, kick serves. Sometimes I will move my toss on the kick to get more spin and more net clearance kinda like a change up pitch. You got to know what bothers your opponent and keep him off balance.
I really enjoy these videos, keep them coming, one thing that Ben has that is not that common is a forehand slice that gets behind his opponent low and doesn't rise
TT taking it to another level. Loved the match with the legend that is MEP. Let's give Joel a hand for putting himself out there. Thank you TT for the upload! MM
Kudos to both guys getting out there and playing in front of the internet. Playing points is so much harder than hitting with a friend, then add the recording + internet viewers. Bravo!
Can someone explain this to me? When Joel played Karue, severa comments mention Joel is a 4.5 player. When Joel plays MEP, the MEP critics appear to view Joel as a 3.5. Funny part is Joel doesn’t have a USTA rating because he lives in Israel.
Great video. Glad to see Team E.T. facing Team Troll again. Ian, Joel is not lousy, he played MEP outdoor in ATL. Good on you to find sub since you’re injured. Great hosting of the match, looked like a perfect day outside.
Seeing how successful Ben’s style is I tried to emulate it in a match once. It’s not as easy as it looks. I got nowhere with it because I couldn’t be as consistent as him. He’s a one off for sure!
Because most people haven't spent enough time, esp. on the forehand, practicing a quick punch slice. It's easier to hit with more margin than a drop shot, and if you drag someone out wide, makes for a high percentage. Justine Henin used it as often as she used a drop shot back in the day.
MEP. US Tour. Exhibition matches. Pay to play the one and only! Okay that sounded feasible in my head, but gas prices are really high. Keep rocking the videos!
Ben is way more balanced in movement than Joel. Ben's split step and first movement toward the ball are better than Joel's. Joel needs to work on his split step timing.. or even don't even split-step.. just be balanced and move more efficiently at the ball... Finally, Joel needs to work on his volleys and overhead to have any chance.
I was mostly noticing how off balance he looked on some of the forehands. He’d lean to either side as I assume the balls spun away from him or he anticipated the spin and it wasn’t there and he’d get hand cuffed. Very tricky.
MEP doesn't split step at all. You do not need split step at armature level. The incoming ball is slow, with the time you split step, you'd better make your head stable and watch the incoming ball's direction and make faster judgement. Don't be misled by those "coaches". Those coaches won't teach you anything valuable, of course you don't pay those on youtube either.
First game Joel misses 4 of 5 returns - either shanks outside the court or directly into the net. Against >Ben's< serve. By the 3rd game it was just both of them pushing back and forth until Joel shanks it, nets it, or Ben passes him.
The lefty spin serve is not all that easy to return. The first priority for the 4.0 Joel is to reduce the unforced errors. Just too many UFE. Just get those back into play. The result may have been 6-2 loss instead of 6-0 loss, but it is the first starting step.
Joel’s Backhand stroke is like he is hitting a tennis ball with a baseball bat. That’s why he’s struggling with the incoming slice shots. Not much low to high at all. On the low balls, he ended up having to scoop it up (racket face opened) over the net with nothing on it.
You need a good slice backhand, volleys, and a solid overhead to win against MEP. He can't really hurt you on the serve return. Instead of going for angles hit the ball deep with topspin right to him to try and push him back. Doing that will leave him vulnerable to the short slice or drop shot. He prefers to run side to side. Use the low part of the net and go deep down the middle with your shots. Ian gave good advice about being able to sense when your shot hurts your opponent and then moving forward. That is exactly what Joel needs to work on.
I would have to disagree with Ian’s comment during this match. I think he said something like “Joel has the weapons to beat MEP”. He might have even said that Joel is the better player. I just don’t see that. Ben appears to me to be the better player. His movement around the court is far better than Joel’s. I don’t see Joel’s weapons to beat MEP. He’s got a good first serve and a descent forehand. Other than that, there isn’t much more weaponry that I see from this match. I’d prefer MEP’s weapons over Joel’s based on this small sample of play. Joel’s feet are so busy - I think he would be better if he didn’t take all those small choppy steps to try to get into perfect hitting position. His shoes are constantly making that rubber on concrete squeal. It seems pretty inefficient movement to me. But I appreciate the battle for sure.
Wannabe Pro and likely Ian were basing their early comments on what they saw when I was warming up Joel. I would have guess a much closer match score after warming up Joel.
Joel is an entertaining tennis player to watch because of the wide, wide range of playing ability he brings to the court. He combines amazing court coverage and creative return skills on balls not many players on any level of tennis would be capable of returning with ground strokes that vary from rocket-like topspin backhands to strangely fluttering duck forehands that fly 10 feet outside the lines. He does seems pretty consistent with his serves. The rest is a variety show, but one thing that Joel has in spades is hustle. Ian, other than the serve, I don't see much Essential Tennis showing up in Joel's game. Where are you man? I expected more dedication from you toward your book's co-author, editor, travel companion, agent, whatever Joel did on the book. Joel is a perfect opportunity to show how your coaching techniques, both in the book and on court, really work. There's your next UA-cam mini-series, "Joel Gets Game - - Tennis Game!" Joel has obvious athletic ability and desire. If he and you can put in the time for the work needed, the results would be very interesting to both your UA-cam subs and book buyers. 🙂
2:40 Joel camps out in NML for several shots. He does this repeatedly throughout the match. Had Ian advised him to do this? Does not seem like a good strategy. Better to come to net. Or just stay back.
At 17:35 MEP points out Joel’s unorthodox two handed backhand in the nicest most sugarcoated way possible. What he was really thinking was “Boy, and people say may backhand technique sucks? I’ve never seen such a bizarre backhand! Something to exploit!” This is another example of MEPs above average powers of observation. I’ll never be one to compliment any of MEPs technique. But he shows how much of a factor a active mind can be on the tennis court. He’s not shackled into playing ego ball. He pays attention to what’s actually happening on the court. He understands what he’s capable of doing and rarely tries to exceed his limits. The one part of his game that I do compliment him on is his superior stamina. Lose conditioning, lose mental focus. To Joel: In this age of video everywhere nobody can claim they don’t know what their strokes look like. Look at your backhand technique especially the unorthodox grips. How can you watch pros every week on tv and then try and hit a backhand that’s nothing like what any of them are doing? Get rid of that forehand grip on the right hand and actually swing your arms. A two handed backhand should be hit with the dominant hand holding a continental or a light eastern backhand grip. Your all wrist and little swing. MEP referred to “Krav Maga” the Israeli martial art when describing your backhand. That forehand grip is also weakening your one handed slice backhand by encouraging a severe chopping motion. The backhand volley also suffers as a result of this unorthodox grip. Ask Ian to be completely honest about what he thinks of your backhand technique. I think he’ll back me up. You seem like a smart guy. In a interview Jerry Seinfeld said that comedians are some of the most observant people he knows. Your a comedian. Use your observational power on the tennis court and reap the benefits. 🤔 maybe MEP is a comedian too! You’ve got reasonably good speed and most importantly you seem to love tennis you could be so much better.
It's quite baffling that so many commenters keep doubting MEP's level or that of his opponents after all this time. Guys, 1) the rating is official 2) you shouldn't base your opinion on what you see on footage. Most footage you see on screen is professional play and that doesn't compare 3) anyone who hasn't take an honest look at footage of themselves should think twice before dissing these players But still, it seems we all enjoy this type of tennis because we keep returning here.
Why is it so baffling? To MEP’s credit, he’s figured out a way to succeed up to a point with a very unorthodox style, but his skills/athleticism suggest 3.5 level, even though his skills are much higher than that. Seems only natural for many to question his 4.5 level as that’s a high level until they see more of him. And some of the questioning isn’t about being 4.5, but high level 4.5 which several seem to imply he is. Sure, the rating is official, but is it accurate? It’s a very flawed system. And based on games won/lost not on matches won/lost amongst many other variables. You’re maybe right about the footage for some. I base it on the 2 players playing, not the pros.
beautiful strokes don't win matches - balls hit with the right placement, speed and spin (no matter the technique) - that go over the net one more time than the opponent's ball - that's what wins matches
@@Michael-Boyer MEP is VERY athletic. I don't think there's any doubt about that. His strokes are unorthodox, no doubt either. What many don't see beyond the poor technique on the backhand ground stroke, or the non-existent forehand topspin is: 1) it actually requires a lot of skill to make slices go as low across the net as MEP does. Topspin allows for greater net coverage and speed, because of the ball dipping. MEP is working with opposite forces, still pulling off some fast ground strokes. 2) MEP's court awareness is better than most 4.5's I have seen. His footwork looks a little clumsy with that poor involvement of the upper body but he is ALWAYS well positioned to strike the ball 3) MEP not only brings the ball back into play but he's also very aware of where the opponent is and where to bring the ball back so as not to give too much of a positional advantage to the opponent MEP's precision, court awareness and shot selection are above par. As for whether it's "4.5", if you don't even trust the rating system itself, then what does 4.5 really mean? An undefined point of reference in your head? Then your evaluation is a truism.
Joel, I can feel your pain. Ben, your strong mental game never ceases to amaze me. I have never seen anyone maximize their tool box as much as you do. This match of mine with ONE of my local MEP's may come close. He paints the corners with his Ben-like shots and he crushes me. Of course, it is a highlight real, with our best points, but can you feel my frustration? These MEP's are a special breed of people who seem to have a 6th sense about where to move in anticipating their opponents next shot. Thanks All. Loved watching it. ua-cam.com/video/ug5QwDayJ0w/v-deo.html
Ben's forehand is just better than most other people's forehands...why can't they admit that? It's more consistent, he places it better, he changes direction of the ball better. he can hit it softly or hard (his hardest shots are as hard as his opponent's), and it's effective whether it goes short or deep. The forehand slice is a great weapon....why don't more pros teach it?
Well, I agree with 4 of the 5 points there. As a slice forehand, by virtue of a net existing, you can't hit it as hard, and it is the one drawback of the shot. Now admittedly you can hit it hard enough to elicit errors from the opponent, but it's poor at putaways, particularly from the middle of the court.
@@LowUTR You CAN hit a slice as hard as a topspin (at least I can, but I have an unusual way of doing it), but the margin of error is very small, so it's not worth it very often, and you are right, it's tougher to put the ball away at midcourt when compared to someone who has an excellent topspin forehand approach shot....and the volleys and overhead to back it up. But it's EASIER to hit a slice approach shot, and it's a tough shot to lob back.
@@joemarshall4226 Of course when I speak of putting the ball away I mean your typical situation. Of course a ball that sits up, close to the net, can be really driven down into the ground with great pace with a slice (with full shoulder rotation and priming the racket by pulling back on the throat and letting it pop). As soon as the ball is at net height or lower though the physics prohibit pace beyond a certain speed.
This is F-u-u-n-n-y! You guys have Ripped that dude Ben from the Get-go! Some of you, with Aaall your "game" and "skills" and Time-put-in, the disrespect just cuz he don't look/play like he "should". Ben just shows up, humble, and takes care of business, all the while Your mouths open looking Stunned because "He's Not supposed to win!". And what's with Ian @12:25 "Good point. Good point, Joel.....That's exactly the point. That's exactly the point." What Are you Talking About!? He had 3/4 of the court WIDE OPEN And he hit the ball Right Back to him!! wth Ether way, good presentation, TTC. 👍👍
I think Ian was trying to tell Joel he played the point correctly despite the outcome. Yes- he probably should have hit it to the open court…I think Joel was anticipating MEP to run towards open court. Joel had the opportunity to win the point and my guess is Ian wanted Joel to play more points like that which will lead to more opportunities to win points.
@@TennisTrollChannel Hey, man, there's No WAY that was even Slightly correct. Now that player's mind-set could be "Open court? Naw, I'll hit back to the player cuz that's what I was told." MUCH respect to Anyone putting it out there to be judged, including All of y'all. But you gotta start seein' "Unorthodox" players as people that you need to bring your A-game when matching up. They Really think Outside-the-box, doing shots "schooled" players don't. It's their bread-and-butter. Need I say Lefties? And btw, those slow-moving/Dead-balls, imo, They are the Hardest balls to hit! Where you're generating the Power, so Very easily to Over-hit. Need I say a certain Williams vs Vinci 2015 U.S. OPEN? Vinci was a 300 to 01 Underdog!
@@yassirr8538 agree- slow balls are annoying to hit as generating pace isn’t easy for many. Maybe Ian can share some insight if he sees your comment. I’m sure others have similar thoughts as you do.
Joel lost before it started. When I couldn't even tell which one was MEP, I knew Joel was playing right into MEP's hands. Joel wasn't playing like a 4.5. He was just smacking the ball around. Into the net. Out. Wherever. He needed to dictate the points better and be more aggressive. Defense cannot work against MEP.
I wonder what would happen if MEP played Krue? Do you think MEP style would match up against a professional tennis player? I mean anyone can play this type of tennis where you just push the ball over net! Jimmy Connors had a term for pushers, which I can’t write here.
One thing i notice is that, Joel tends to coming into the court, and MEP just hit the ball to joel's foot. Joel don't know what to do, he made many errors on backhand side.
It's hard to play against MEP's style. They don't give you free points and more important they don't give you motivation. For the former, you need to construct the point and have reliable weapons for finishing off. Unfortunately, most 3.5-4.0 (sorry but that how I would rate Joel based on the matches shown on ET channel) players do not have this skill set. Our rallies tend to end after a 2, 3 shots with one either made and error or hit a winner. So we are out off our comfort zone when the ball keeps coming back. Often overlooked, motivation is very important factor. Most of us play much better against a higher rank player. Fencing off fast attacks, running down angle shots, ... help to keep our mind focus. That didn't happen here. I'll bet there has never been a fist pump from any of MEP's opponents. It's just one wacko ball following another then ending in a silly mistake. Most of the time, Joel probably has depressing thoughts instead of focusing on the basics such as 'on your feet', 'eyes on ball', 'relax and follow through', ...
MEP is not hard to play against if you can play tennis. I'm not exactly pro but I would bagel the hell out of MEP. If you can't beat MEP, you are not a technically proficient tennis player.
@@Vishypoo The guy plays 4.5 level for years and has traceable records of wins/losses against his peers. I would say I'm 'technically proficient' but based on my records against a solid 4.5, I know my chance is very slim regardless of how solid my game plane to bagel the dude is. All talk here, but if you are 4.0 or below in Atlanta, Houston, LA, (places I'm kind of know) I'll be happy to bet 1:10 odd on MEP winning against you.
@Chu Bun I don't play in the US or that system, but I'd have to be a 5.0 or above then as I'm not dropping a single set in 100 games against a player like MEP. It is basic fundamental tennis that beats a guy like that. Bring him into the net and hit passing shots all day or put away all the short balls he feeds you.
@@Vishypoo If you are 5.0+ then of course you can beat MEP or 95% of the posters here. But saying it does take much for anybody who 'can play tennis' to bagel MEP is a bit much and does not bring any credibility to your arguments.
What they are talking at the end of the video is true The guy use both hands independently in his backhand When players do that they put the ball low on the net, but this guy does it every time and he domain that shot. Is like if he invented other way to play tennis. If he was better, I mean professional, he could change the technique of tennis
I love watching people underestimate MEP and then get frustrated after they start missing 'easy' shots. Playing MEP feels more like a mental challenge at times.
Exactly. And even more so overestimating their own game in. And then the idea of what a rating looks like. No one is just given a rating (let's not get into SRs) and good or bad, it is earned and reflective of their play.
Blue hat needs to take his effort down by 70%. Trying hard in the wrong way - like moving around for no reason especially into no-man’s land. Needs relaxation.
I love law depot, he makes the comments fun. He is the Howard Stern of the tennis UA-cam comments. Without him, no one posts what (at least some of) the viewers are really thinking.
Ben can pretty much put the ball anywhere he wants on the court. Seems like joels strokes were lacking that control and the confidence that goes with that.
This Joel character has T-Rex syndrome on da forehand. Open dat forehand up playah as well as yo stance. You are losing valuable time doing all of that turning. You started shortening your strokes dinking the ball and playing the other guys game. Keep executing your top spin ground strokes, at least you had him pinned to the back court. All that dinking had him lurking around the net allowing him to control the match.
@@LowUTR whoa! 😲 Do you mean Ian from essential tennis fame? I watched him play Kevin Garlington, he's supposed to be one of the upper crust of Internet teachers and a technomaniac. if he's a T-Rex we're going to have to pull his teaching credentials.😂
@@reuelray All my personal joking aside, he has a strong understanding of tennis. However, he has a rather difficult time applying his knowledge to his own game.
It seems MEP is guarded with his weak BH..1) he'd hit his BH back down line to force his opponent to his to his forehand. 2) drop shot from his BH 3) he'd be standing further to his right to bait a forehand for him. His forehand is very dangerous; controlling and consistent. Also, his FH has a wide weeping stretch since he uses an Eastern grip there. Essentially....i think he wins 80% or more from his forehand. I dont understand why righties don't see and pick that up and use it to their advantage. MED wants to play his FH games. 😅
The minimum requirement is you have to beat MEP to write a book? Nick Bollettieri wrote a few books, coach a few #1s and is in the Tennis Hall of Fame and I think he might have played high school tennis.
@@TennisTrollChannel YES. Exceptions aside, if you cant follow your own advice enough to beat MEP...its not good look for your coaching ability. ps I also wouldnt trust a dentist with numerous missing teeth :D
@@sam8922 There are many pros who have coaches that are not amazing tennis players. Being able to coach and connect with a player and being a player are two different skill sets in my opinion. I see your point. I think Joel being a rec player helps as he gives validity to what we all as rec players are trying to do.
Here's the final word on the effectivemess of Ben's style: ua-cam.com/video/NfPykDRu91g/v-deo.html Harmony Tan beats Serena on Center Court. Serena also lost badly to Karsten Brasch, who had a similar style, and Monica Nicolescu gave her a fit on hard courts. Santoro beat Sampras and Agassi three times each, and Federer twice. How many people learn this way of playing? Virtually no one. Yet several have made a name for themselves at the pro level. Tatianna Maria won her first tournament at 31 years old, after fifteen years on tour, by changing her style and hitting almost every single ground stroke with slice....think about that.
I don't get this constant praise for MEP and trashing of the people who lose to him. If someone loses, it's because his tennis is not consistently good enough. It's not because of his ego to show MEP how to play tennis. MEP's tennis looks trashy and ugly, yes, and just because you say that doesn't mean you have an ego. It's just an observation. Now ugly and trashy have nothing to do with winning. Brad Gilbert did coin the phrase winning ugly. MEP here is exhibit 1 of that, because Brad's game is prettier.
Not sure why this is confusing for people. Obviously, you can say whatever you want and you are entitled to an opinion. The fact and reality is, he is actually rated at 4.5, from winning against 4.5 players. He isn't making up his rating or just writing on videos like so many others online do. Ben has proven this over and over by posting public matches. Cheers.
@@BackoftheLineTennis he wasn’t talking about MEP. And as viewers we don’t know what’s happening in those other MEP matches, but he has 20-25+ vids posted now which is a large sample size now. I can see an argument for people to question his rating. What’s his best win posted? Whoever that might be, that player isn’t better than weak 4.5.
I'm amazed with everything on UA-cam that this and essential tennis don't have so much more subscribers. The insights and behind the scenes info from you guys is great. Keep it up. People who don't sub, sub now please.
Thank you UD Racing for the stats: www.tennisbull.com/match/454
Amazing stats, 2 years ago I'm not sure MEP wins 7 of 9 points at the net or 70% of second serve points. It's like when they taught Happy Gilmore how to putt.
Joel doesn't have proper weapons or consistency or movement to beat MEP. Another soul was harvested.
Joel is also lacking in directionals and tactics. Hopefully he learns from this.
I’m sure his coach will work on that with him, but for now he’s got a book to sell.
It was a win from the beginning for MEP. Joel is a 3.5 at best, my guess
Joel doesn't have a proper coach. He was led to the wrong way.
I'm definitely not saying this to denigrate Joel, and it's also very hard to tell when someone's playing MEP (having to generate all your own power definitely changes the game), but I don't feel Joel would be playing anywhere near the 4.5 level if he were playing USTA. His serve is reliable but not a weapon and he has a very good topspin forehand, but in this match he looked more like a high 3.5/low 4.0 player.
If Joel or Ian is reading this, what does he self-rate at, or what level would you consider him?
Thanks for sharing, was definitely a fun match to watch!
I totally agree. I feel like if Joel was playing in Nor Cal he would be closer to 3.5.
3.5?? Have you not seen the other players MEP has beaten at 4.5? He forces them into mistakes. You probably would get smoked and humbled by him
@@user-be5qg7mr1s wasn’t talking about MEP. Throttle back chief. I also saw MEP get beat by a 4.0 from Milwaukee. Every cities ranking metrics are different if you don’t understand that then I can’t help you.
@@user-be5qg7mr1s I've seen all of MEP's UA-cam matches, and that's the comparison I'm making. Again, it could be specific to Joel's game, but comparing to both the Topher match on Essential Tennis (who I believe was competing at 4.0 at the time) and the majority of his matches on TennisTroll, this is definitely the most one-sided of MEP's matches I've seen, including against Acing Tennis who was 4.0 at the time. Just from this video, Joel seems to me like a player with 4.0+ strokes who's playing at 3.5 due to intangibles. I was just interested in seeing where Ian would rate him and where he would rate himself. Hopefully he played against some of the other TennisTroll guys to give further comparison.
And yes, MEP would absolutely destroy me. I'm a low-4.0 player who struggles against skilled pushers.
@@HeavyTopspin I think you’re kinda right about Joel. He can hit an occasional good shot but almost every 3.5+ player can.
I believe Acing tennis lost 3,3 to MEP. So, not too lopsided. Hoping he has more vids soon.
the reaper of souls harvests another victim
I don't think a slower serve is more effective than a fast serve. But I do think people don't vary the speed of their serves enough. Serving should be treated like pitching, but people for the most part only vary placement and spin. If you vary pace as well this is another variable the returner has to deal with.
Oh yes. If I need a quick and easy point in a pinch, I almost always throw in a super slow serve as a first resort. It certainly doesn't always work, especially if the opponent is super dialed in, but it works often enough that it's one of my first go-tos.
@@automaticsweetheart2009 I have a change-up serve, where I swing my arm just as hard or even harder, but I shift my feet in a way that takes my body out of the shot and it doesn't go as fast. It can be very effective when hit right at the opponent.
Actually the type of spin that is applied can affect the pace of the serve. The nature and high trajectory of a kick serve results in a slower serve compared to a slice serve. I was a baseball pitcher that relied on throwing breaking pitches so I easily adapted to hitting flat, slice, kick serves. Sometimes I will move my toss on the kick to get more spin and more net clearance kinda like a change up pitch. You got to know what bothers your opponent and keep him off balance.
@@thomasmedeiros5722 Yeah the spin can affect the pace of the serve. But you can also hit say a kick serve at many different speeds as well.
@@joemarshall4226 Good idea!
I really enjoy these videos, keep them coming, one thing that Ben has that is not that common is a forehand slice that gets behind his opponent low and doesn't rise
It's too bad Ian was injured and unable to play. Everyone would have loved to see that rematch!
That's a lie. Playing outdoor, Ian may lost. Ian cannot afford losing because his business is at steak.
@@yili9725
Ian is a chef??!!
All the world is sad not having him in the court 😢😢😢😢
TT taking it to another level.
Loved the match with the legend that is MEP. Let's give Joel a hand for putting himself out there.
Thank you TT for the upload!
MM
Kudos to both guys getting out there and playing in front of the internet. Playing points is so much harder than hitting with a friend, then add the recording + internet viewers. Bravo!
Agree. This was Joel’s first match on UA-cam and playing MEP was an on court decision.
MEP knows who he is and does a great job of dictating points. He has a high tennis IQ as well. I also like his improved serve.
Dang the MEP serve at 6:24!
Also, Joel don't feel too bad. Most of us keyboard warriors would also lose to MEP.
His serve is dangerous now. Here's how he did it: ua-cam.com/video/jIP0U0OCANw/v-deo.html
Can someone explain this to me? When Joel played Karue, severa comments mention Joel is a 4.5 player. When Joel plays MEP, the MEP critics appear to view Joel as a 3.5. Funny part is Joel doesn’t have a USTA rating because he lives in Israel.
I am going to go watch the Karue video and I will be the ultimate arbitrator of this divergence of opinion.
Do you have a link for this video?
@@Michael-Boyer ua-cam.com/video/lAyFUnq-Bnw/v-deo.html&ab_channel=PowerFlail at 1 min 37 seconds
@@Michael-Boyer ua-cam.com/video/kB0rls_ndDg/v-deo.html
@@LowUTR We can always count on you : ]
Great video. Glad to see Team E.T. facing Team Troll again. Ian, Joel is not lousy, he played MEP outdoor in ATL. Good on you to find sub since you’re injured. Great hosting of the match, looked like a perfect day outside.
Thanks to Joel for playing MEP. It was an on- court decision after the book discussion.
Seeing how successful Ben’s style is I tried to emulate it in a match once. It’s not as easy as it looks. I got nowhere with it because I couldn’t be as consistent as him. He’s a one off for sure!
Because most people haven't spent enough time, esp. on the forehand, practicing a quick punch slice. It's easier to hit with more margin than a drop shot, and if you drag someone out wide, makes for a high percentage. Justine Henin used it as often as she used a drop shot back in the day.
MEP. US Tour. Exhibition matches. Pay to play the one and only! Okay that sounded feasible in my head, but gas prices are really high. Keep rocking the videos!
Ben is way more balanced in movement than Joel. Ben's split step and first movement toward the ball are better than Joel's. Joel needs to work on his split step timing.. or even don't even split-step.. just be balanced and move more efficiently at the ball... Finally, Joel needs to work on his volleys and overhead to have any chance.
I've seen 70-yr-old men move better on the court than Joel. Is he injured?
I was mostly noticing how off balance he looked on some of the forehands. He’d lean to either side as I assume the balls spun away from him or he anticipated the spin and it wasn’t there and he’d get hand cuffed. Very tricky.
MEP doesn't split step at all. You do not need split step at armature level. The incoming ball is slow, with the time you split step, you'd better make your head stable and watch the incoming ball's direction and make faster judgement. Don't be misled by those "coaches". Those coaches won't teach you anything valuable, of course you don't pay those on youtube either.
First game Joel misses 4 of 5 returns - either shanks outside the court or directly into the net. Against >Ben's< serve. By the 3rd game it was just both of them pushing back and forth until Joel shanks it, nets it, or Ben passes him.
The lefty spin serve is not all that easy to return. The first priority for the 4.0 Joel is to reduce the unforced errors. Just too many UFE. Just get those back into play. The result may have been 6-2 loss instead of 6-0 loss, but it is the first starting step.
Joel’s Backhand stroke is like he is hitting a tennis ball with a baseball bat. That’s why he’s struggling with the incoming slice shots. Not much low to high at all. On the low balls, he ended up having to scoop it up (racket face opened) over the net with nothing on it.
You need a good slice backhand, volleys, and a solid overhead to win against MEP. He can't really hurt you on the serve return. Instead of going for angles hit the ball deep with topspin right to him to try and push him back. Doing that will leave him vulnerable to the short slice or drop shot. He prefers to run side to side. Use the low part of the net and go deep down the middle with your shots. Ian gave good advice about being able to sense when your shot hurts your opponent and then moving forward. That is exactly what Joel needs to work on.
I would have to disagree with Ian’s comment during this match. I think he said something like “Joel has the weapons to beat MEP”. He might have even said that Joel is the better player.
I just don’t see that. Ben appears to me to be the better player. His movement around the court is far better than Joel’s. I don’t see Joel’s weapons to beat MEP. He’s got a good first serve and a descent forehand. Other than that, there isn’t much more weaponry that I see from this match. I’d prefer MEP’s weapons over Joel’s based on this small sample of play.
Joel’s feet are so busy - I think he would be better if he didn’t take all those small choppy steps to try to get into perfect hitting position. His shoes are constantly making that rubber on concrete squeal. It seems pretty inefficient movement to me.
But I appreciate the battle for sure.
Wannabe Pro and likely Ian were basing their early comments on what they saw when I was warming up Joel. I would have guess a much closer match score after warming up Joel.
Ian was encouraging Joel. Don't take that seriously :)
Think Joel relies way to much on his forehand grip to hit good topspin/a good forehand.
Joel is an entertaining tennis player to watch because of the wide, wide range of playing ability he brings to the court. He combines amazing court coverage and creative return skills on balls not many players on any level of tennis would be capable of returning with ground strokes that vary from rocket-like topspin backhands to strangely fluttering duck forehands that fly 10 feet outside the lines. He does seems pretty consistent with his serves. The rest is a variety show, but one thing that Joel has in spades is hustle. Ian, other than the serve, I don't see much Essential Tennis showing up in Joel's game. Where are you man? I expected more dedication from you toward your book's co-author, editor, travel companion, agent, whatever Joel did on the book. Joel is a perfect opportunity to show how your coaching techniques, both in the book and on court, really work. There's your next UA-cam mini-series, "Joel Gets Game - - Tennis Game!" Joel has obvious athletic ability and desire. If he and you can put in the time for the work needed, the results would be very interesting to both your UA-cam subs and book buyers. 🙂
Ian should absolutely do a series getting Joel's game in shape then a rematch with MEP.
@@joemtnclimber793 What that training looks like for shots and mental prep would actually be quite interesting!
2:40 Joel camps out in NML for several shots. He does this repeatedly throughout the match. Had Ian advised him to do this? Does not seem like a good strategy. Better to come to net. Or just stay back.
MEP is definitely serving with more pace! Great job!
At 17:35 MEP points out Joel’s unorthodox two handed backhand in the nicest most sugarcoated way possible. What he was really thinking was “Boy, and people say may backhand technique sucks? I’ve never seen such a bizarre backhand! Something to exploit!” This is another example of MEPs above average powers of observation. I’ll never be one to compliment any of MEPs technique. But he shows how much of a factor a active mind can be on the tennis court. He’s not shackled into playing ego ball. He pays attention to what’s actually happening on the court. He understands what he’s capable of doing and rarely tries to exceed his limits. The one part of his game that I do compliment him on is his superior stamina. Lose conditioning, lose mental focus.
To Joel: In this age of video everywhere nobody can claim they don’t know what their strokes look like. Look at your backhand technique especially the unorthodox grips. How can you watch pros every week on tv and then try and hit a backhand that’s nothing like what any of them are doing? Get rid of that forehand grip on the right hand and actually swing your arms. A two handed backhand should be hit with the dominant hand holding a continental or a light eastern backhand grip. Your all wrist and little swing. MEP referred to “Krav Maga” the Israeli martial art when describing your backhand. That forehand grip is also weakening your one handed slice backhand by encouraging a severe chopping motion. The backhand volley also suffers as a result of this unorthodox grip. Ask Ian to be completely honest about what he thinks of your backhand technique. I think he’ll back me up. You seem like a smart guy. In a interview Jerry Seinfeld said that comedians are some of the most observant people he knows. Your a comedian. Use your observational power on the tennis court and reap the benefits. 🤔 maybe MEP is a comedian too! You’ve got reasonably good speed and most importantly you seem to love tennis you could be so much better.
You mean he hits to his opponent's weaknesses? This is not some major feat of intellect.
It's quite baffling that so many commenters keep doubting MEP's level or that of his opponents after all this time.
Guys,
1) the rating is official
2) you shouldn't base your opinion on what you see on footage. Most footage you see on screen is professional play and that doesn't compare
3) anyone who hasn't take an honest look at footage of themselves should think twice before dissing these players
But still, it seems we all enjoy this type of tennis because we keep returning here.
Why is it so baffling? To MEP’s credit, he’s figured out a way to succeed up to a point with a very unorthodox style, but his skills/athleticism suggest 3.5 level, even though his skills are much higher than that. Seems only natural for many to question his 4.5 level as that’s a high level until they see more of him. And some of the questioning isn’t about being 4.5, but high level 4.5 which several seem to imply he is.
Sure, the rating is official, but is it accurate? It’s a very flawed system. And based on games won/lost not on matches won/lost amongst many other variables. You’re maybe right about the footage for some. I base it on the 2 players playing, not the pros.
beautiful strokes don't win matches - balls hit with the right placement, speed and spin (no matter the technique) - that go over the net one more time than the opponent's ball - that's what wins matches
💯agree with @Knotwilg. We enjoy it the same way we enjoy horror movies....
@@Michael-Boyer MEP is VERY athletic. I don't think there's any doubt about that. His strokes are unorthodox, no doubt either. What many don't see beyond the poor technique on the backhand ground stroke, or the non-existent forehand topspin is:
1) it actually requires a lot of skill to make slices go as low across the net as MEP does. Topspin allows for greater net coverage and speed, because of the ball dipping. MEP is working with opposite forces, still pulling off some fast ground strokes.
2) MEP's court awareness is better than most 4.5's I have seen. His footwork looks a little clumsy with that poor involvement of the upper body but he is ALWAYS well positioned to strike the ball
3) MEP not only brings the ball back into play but he's also very aware of where the opponent is and where to bring the ball back so as not to give too much of a positional advantage to the opponent
MEP's precision, court awareness and shot selection are above par. As for whether it's "4.5", if you don't even trust the rating system itself, then what does 4.5 really mean? An undefined point of reference in your head? Then your evaluation is a truism.
@@knotwilg3596 what makes you say his rating is official and not self rated?
Joel, I can feel your pain. Ben, your strong mental game never ceases to amaze me. I have never seen anyone maximize their tool box as much as you do. This match of mine with ONE of my local MEP's may come close. He paints the corners with his Ben-like shots and he crushes me. Of course, it is a highlight real, with our best points, but can you feel my frustration? These MEP's are a special breed of people who seem to have a 6th sense about where to move in anticipating their opponents next shot. Thanks All. Loved watching it. ua-cam.com/video/ug5QwDayJ0w/v-deo.html
Retarded physically, genius mentally? :D
Ben's forehand is just better than most other people's forehands...why can't they admit that? It's more consistent, he places it better, he changes direction of the ball better. he can hit it softly or hard (his hardest shots are as hard as his opponent's), and it's effective whether it goes short or deep. The forehand slice is a great weapon....why don't more pros teach it?
Well, I agree with 4 of the 5 points there. As a slice forehand, by virtue of a net existing, you can't hit it as hard, and it is the one drawback of the shot. Now admittedly you can hit it hard enough to elicit errors from the opponent, but it's poor at putaways, particularly from the middle of the court.
@@LowUTR You CAN hit a slice as hard as a topspin (at least I can, but I have an unusual way of doing it), but the margin of error is very small, so it's not worth it very often, and you are right, it's tougher to put the ball away at midcourt when compared to someone who has an excellent topspin forehand approach shot....and the volleys and overhead to back it up. But it's EASIER to hit a slice approach shot, and it's a tough shot to lob back.
@@joemarshall4226 Of course when I speak of putting the ball away I mean your typical situation. Of course a ball that sits up, close to the net, can be really driven down into the ground with great pace with a slice (with full shoulder rotation and priming the racket by pulling back on the throat and letting it pop). As soon as the ball is at net height or lower though the physics prohibit pace beyond a certain speed.
@@LowUTR That's where the drop shot comes in....
This is F-u-u-n-n-y! You guys have Ripped that dude Ben from the Get-go! Some of you, with Aaall your "game" and "skills" and Time-put-in, the disrespect just cuz he don't look/play like he "should". Ben just shows up, humble, and takes care of business, all the while Your mouths open looking Stunned because "He's Not supposed to win!".
And what's with Ian @12:25 "Good point. Good point, Joel.....That's exactly the point. That's exactly the point." What Are you Talking About!? He had 3/4 of the court WIDE OPEN And he hit the ball Right Back to him!! wth
Ether way, good presentation, TTC. 👍👍
I think Ian was trying to tell Joel he played the point correctly despite the outcome. Yes- he probably should have hit it to the open court…I think Joel was anticipating MEP to run towards open court. Joel had the opportunity to win the point and my guess is Ian wanted Joel to play more points like that which will lead to more opportunities to win points.
@@TennisTrollChannel Hey, man, there's No WAY that was even Slightly correct. Now that player's mind-set could be "Open court? Naw, I'll hit back to the player cuz that's what I was told."
MUCH respect to Anyone putting it out there to be judged, including All of y'all. But you gotta start seein' "Unorthodox" players as people that you need to bring your A-game when matching up. They Really think Outside-the-box, doing shots "schooled" players don't. It's their bread-and-butter. Need I say Lefties?
And btw, those slow-moving/Dead-balls, imo, They are the Hardest balls to hit! Where you're generating the Power, so Very easily to Over-hit. Need I say a certain Williams vs Vinci 2015 U.S. OPEN? Vinci was a 300 to 01 Underdog!
@@yassirr8538 agree- slow balls are annoying to hit as generating pace isn’t easy for many. Maybe Ian can share some insight if he sees your comment. I’m sure others have similar thoughts as you do.
MEP is emproving his pushing skills pretty well... GOAT !!!
I'm from a pool background so to hear Ben say he is already thinking defense when he is on offense is cool cause you look 2 shots ahead in nine ball.
Joel lost before it started. When I couldn't even tell which one was MEP, I knew Joel was playing right into MEP's hands. Joel wasn't playing like a 4.5. He was just smacking the ball around. Into the net. Out. Wherever. He needed to dictate the points better and be more aggressive. Defense cannot work against MEP.
I wonder what would happen if MEP played Krue? Do you think MEP style would match up against a professional tennis player? I mean anyone can play this type of tennis where you just push the ball over net! Jimmy Connors had a term for pushers, which I can’t write here.
A professional player who has a similar game as Krue would be competitive. An amateur against a pro would not be competitive.
0:12 Boss in the background taunting us with his Peachtree Roadrace shirt. 🏃🏻♂️
40-15…first game. That might be the first double fault I’ve ever seen from Ben.
MEP has a special set of skills…Skills that make him a nightmare for someone like Joel. 😉😂
One thing i notice is that, Joel tends to coming into the court, and MEP just hit the ball to joel's foot. Joel don't know what to do, he made many errors on backhand side.
MEP reminds me of "Good, better, best - never give the dog a rest - until good is better and better is best"
It's hard to play against MEP's style. They don't give you free points and more important they don't give you motivation. For the former, you need to construct the point and have reliable weapons for finishing off. Unfortunately, most 3.5-4.0 (sorry but that how I would rate Joel based on the matches shown on ET channel) players do not have this skill set. Our rallies tend to end after a 2, 3 shots with one either made and error or hit a winner. So we are out off our comfort zone when the ball keeps coming back. Often overlooked, motivation is very important factor. Most of us play much better against a higher rank player. Fencing off fast attacks, running down angle shots, ... help to keep our mind focus. That didn't happen here. I'll bet there has never been a fist pump from any of MEP's opponents. It's just one wacko ball following another then ending in a silly mistake. Most of the time, Joel probably has depressing thoughts instead of focusing on the basics such as 'on your feet', 'eyes on ball', 'relax and follow through', ...
MEP is not hard to play against if you can play tennis. I'm not exactly pro but I would bagel the hell out of MEP. If you can't beat MEP, you are not a technically proficient tennis player.
@@Vishypoo The guy plays 4.5 level for years and has traceable records of wins/losses against his peers. I would say I'm 'technically proficient' but based on my records against a solid 4.5, I know my chance is very slim regardless of how solid my game plane to bagel the dude is. All talk here, but if you are 4.0 or below in Atlanta, Houston, LA, (places I'm kind of know) I'll be happy to bet 1:10 odd on MEP winning against you.
@Chu Bun I don't play in the US or that system, but I'd have to be a 5.0 or above then as I'm not dropping a single set in 100 games against a player like MEP. It is basic fundamental tennis that beats a guy like that. Bring him into the net and hit passing shots all day or put away all the short balls he feeds you.
@@Vishypoo If you are 5.0+ then of course you can beat MEP or 95% of the posters here. But saying it does take much for anybody who 'can play tennis' to bagel MEP is a bit much and does not bring any credibility to your arguments.
What they are talking at the end of the video is true
The guy use both hands independently in his backhand
When players do that they put the ball low on the net, but this guy does it every time and he domain that shot. Is like if he invented other way to play tennis. If he was better, I mean professional, he could change the technique of tennis
I love watching people underestimate MEP and then get frustrated after they start missing 'easy' shots. Playing MEP feels more like a mental challenge at times.
Exactly. And even more so overestimating their own game in. And then the idea of what a rating looks like. No one is just given a rating (let's not get into SRs) and good or bad, it is earned and reflective of their play.
Blue hat needs to take his effort down by 70%. Trying hard in the wrong way - like moving around for no reason especially into no-man’s land. Needs relaxation.
The best 4.5 tennis players out there! Omg barf.
Oh it's you again. You must really enjoy this type of tennis to come always back and comment.
@@knotwilg3596 I actually do enjoy it, just not the announced level of said.
I love law depot, he makes the comments fun. He is the Howard Stern of the tennis UA-cam comments. Without him, no one posts what (at least some of) the viewers are really thinking.
this MEP weirdo is the tennis napolean dynamite
Ben can pretty much put the ball anywhere he wants on the court. Seems like joels strokes were lacking that control and the confidence that goes with that.
Seemed like joel was too focused on creating massive topspin on the slow balls to get his control and that led to a lot of errors
i play with and against players like Ben every week (doubles)
haha, MEP again, he's amazing. 🏆🏆🏆🏆 Why do they make Joel talk about the match, he feels bad enough.
We made him talk : ]
This Joel character has T-Rex syndrome on da forehand. Open dat forehand up playah as well as yo stance. You are losing valuable time doing all of that turning. You started shortening your strokes dinking the ball and playing the other guys game. Keep executing your top spin ground strokes, at least you had him pinned to the back court. All that dinking had him lurking around the net allowing him to control the match.
Ian is the king of T-Rex, there are numerous videos of other channels making fun of how he hits.
@@LowUTR Ian? I thought the guy playing M E P was Joel.
@@reuelray Yes, and Joel learned in part from Ian.
@@LowUTR whoa! 😲 Do you mean Ian from essential tennis fame? I watched him play Kevin Garlington, he's supposed to be one of the upper crust of Internet teachers and a technomaniac. if he's a T-Rex we're going to have to pull his teaching credentials.😂
@@reuelray All my personal joking aside, he has a strong understanding of tennis. However, he has a rather difficult time applying his knowledge to his own game.
It seems MEP is guarded with his weak BH..1) he'd hit his BH back down line to force his opponent to his to his forehand. 2) drop shot from his BH 3) he'd be standing further to his right to bait a forehand for him.
His forehand is very dangerous; controlling and consistent. Also, his FH has a wide weeping stretch since he uses an Eastern grip there. Essentially....i think he wins 80% or more from his forehand. I dont understand why righties don't see and pick that up and use it to their advantage. MED wants to play his FH games. 😅
Joel has no business co authoring a book about tennis if he gets spanked so bad by MEP....
The minimum requirement is you have to beat MEP to write a book? Nick Bollettieri wrote a few books, coach a few #1s and is in the Tennis Hall of Fame and I think he might have played high school tennis.
@@TennisTrollChannel YES. Exceptions aside, if you cant follow your own advice enough to beat MEP...its not good look for your coaching ability. ps I also wouldnt trust a dentist with numerous missing teeth :D
@@sam8922 There are many pros who have coaches that are not amazing tennis players. Being able to coach and connect with a player and being a player are two different skill sets in my opinion. I see your point. I think Joel being a rec player helps as he gives validity to what we all as rec players are trying to do.
Maybe he did the writing part and Ian did the tennis part.
Was Peter Bodo a champion player?
Joel is closer to a 4.0, maybe even 3.5.
General ratings don't tell you much about any given head-to-head matchup
Here's the final word on the effectivemess of Ben's style: ua-cam.com/video/NfPykDRu91g/v-deo.html Harmony Tan beats Serena on Center Court. Serena also lost badly to Karsten Brasch, who had a similar style, and Monica Nicolescu gave her a fit on hard courts. Santoro beat Sampras and Agassi three times each, and Federer twice. How many people learn this way of playing? Virtually no one. Yet several have made a name for themselves at the pro level. Tatianna Maria won her first tournament at 31 years old, after fifteen years on tour, by changing her style and hitting almost every single ground stroke with slice....think about that.
What a match 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Backhand slice into the net more times I can count…awful!
Don't think Joel ate his wheaties that day
Funny : ]
Why does MEP never play any legit 4.5s?
he’s only played about a dozen or so on this channel and another.
Tennis Joel needs experience.
No Consistency
Joel would lose 3.0 in Alberta
Cool story!
I don't get this constant praise for MEP and trashing of the people who lose to him. If someone loses, it's because his tennis is not consistently good enough. It's not because of his ego to show MEP how to play tennis. MEP's tennis looks trashy and ugly, yes, and just because you say that doesn't mean you have an ego. It's just an observation. Now ugly and trashy have nothing to do with winning. Brad Gilbert did coin the phrase winning ugly. MEP here is exhibit 1 of that, because Brad's game is prettier.
Mep I challenge you
Show up at Tolleson Park and ask for me.
Is the purpose of this tour to highlight Ian’s coaching capabilities? Joel is like 0-8 at this point.
Lol. Purpose was to let viewers know about their book.
Wow Joel is weak as
Boss vs. Ian, please.
That would be interesting. One day when the channel meet.
@@TennisTrollChannel oh heck yes… a channel cup event would be fantastic… Maybe even line up some sponsors to help make it happen!
Love MEP but stop gasing up the 3.5 player like he is a 4.5 in every vid...ir Will keep hım at 3.5
Not sure why this is confusing for people. Obviously, you can say whatever you want and you are entitled to an opinion. The fact and reality is, he is actually rated at 4.5, from winning against 4.5 players. He isn't making up his rating or just writing on videos like so many others online do. Ben has proven this over and over by posting public matches. Cheers.
@@BackoftheLineTennis he wasn’t talking about MEP. And as viewers we don’t know what’s happening in those other MEP matches, but he has 20-25+ vids posted now which is a large sample size now. I can see an argument for people to question his rating. What’s his best win posted? Whoever that might be, that player isn’t better than weak 4.5.
@@BackoftheLineTennis i dont care who he played to pad the stats to get 4.5.... those are not 4.5 strokes and wil and did get owned by real 4.5
@@BackoftheLineTennis im not talking about MEP.. THE other guy
@@BackoftheLineTennis We've asked multiple times to actually see his draws and UTR and we've been denied.
Juegan HORRIBLEEEE!!!
Excellente
I'm amazed with everything on UA-cam that this and essential tennis don't have so much more subscribers. The insights and behind the scenes info from you guys is great. Keep it up. People who don't sub, sub now please.