For my big saws ( 70cc and up ) I run a 35deg top angle and set the depth gauge at 30thousandths, and they don't dull any faster than my chains for my smaller saws. When you get too extreme with the side angle that is when you will notice your chain getting dull a lot faster.
Well explained Tinker ... I've gone down the square ground rabbit hole. To be honest you need to cut a lot of wood to get the time and effort back , if you cut 200+ cubes or are a logger yes it's worth it ..otherwise go Hexa. You'll probably benefit from a barker box and foam filter from West Coast saws and if you're a pro get your saw ported.
Archer semi chisel 3/8 inch 'out of the box', I've always been impressed with (and everyone I've listened to agrees with my estimation, that Archer chains tend to be hard metal chains, so one needs a hard round file or a grinding wheel to re-sharpen the chain to anything like it's condition 'out of the box'). I still don't think I have figure out how to get that semi chisel stock, to cut through wood as good as when that semi chisel is brand new. But I think I've improved somewhat, and learned how to narrow the gap in performance somewhat. Between semi chisel out of the box, versus re-sharpened. Which is the reason (and it's a bit like the argument for square ground chain), . . everyone talks about handing in chain loops to be square ground, or doing it for oneself, . . but if one could get a place to grind semi chisel chain well, and one had a half a dozen loops of semi chisel, and some mission-critical, or time delay sensitive work in sawing timber to do, . . semi chisel that is well re-touched or edged for you by an expert, would be a great asset. The reason I stopped handing in my semi chisel, is I went back to hand filing instead. And buying more round files in bulk packs. Why? The grinding service I used, just erased half the tooth when grinding the teeth, and even when doing so, the edge wasn't all that fantastic. I said, okay, for the cost of that (particularly in terms of my chains just getting worn down to zero in no time), paying to get a poor grinding job done, and chains not lasting me candle light. I just said, in the absence of a good grinding service, I might as well learn properly how to hand file semi chisel. And it's not easy, there's time that has to be put into practice. Now that grinding sharpening service I mentioned, that I wasn't satisfied with. Would have been fine for the guy who puts Aspen 2 into the saw tank, has one saw to run. And maybe runs the saw once a year. And may have zero time with family life and commitments to sharpen chain, . . even a bad chain grinding service and semi chisel could be good enough. It could be just fine. It's all horses for courses. When I have 'dangerous' timber or trees to fall, I don't take chances. Full chisel, properly prepared and a backup saw fully prepped in case I need it. And that full chisel chain will be hand filed properly, tested out first, and then hand filed again. Why? The less time on it's around a vertical tree which is half sawn through the less risk one is exposed to (granted experts all say not to overcut, by rushing the work and thus expose oneself to risk in that way either). And that's why fallers, loggers who work full time (are exposed to risks constantly at all times), the square ground technology is worth it, because it leads to lower risk exposure. If you're a good tree cutter, who knows what they are doing. And Hexa would be worth it too, for lots of tree workers also, of that variety. The rest of us, full chisel ain't bad if one takes care. Weekend warriors, once a year chainsaw users, maybe the grinding service shop that takes half of your semi chisel chain tooth away in one grind, is probably okay too. Horses for courses.
STIHL currently holds around 2,800 patents and patent applications worldwide. International production and distribution: STIHL manufactures in seven countries worldwide. Our close-knit sales network consists of 42 marketing and sales companies and around 120 importers who supply our worldwide dealer network.
@@ChainsawUsers ok. plz see the hexa patent. stihl doesn't say anything about higher or better cutting efficiency. it just says easier filing way improves inacurate filing
The absolute biggest difference is the person holding the file. If you give people a full and semi chisel chain, probably 80% are going to cut faster with a semi chisel after they have filed it just because the semi will tolerate sharpening errors better. This is Hexas biggest cut speed advantage and most people will get way more than 10% out of it purely because it is difficult to fuck up the sharpening process. You are missing a lot of patents. OMark / Oregon was obsessed for decades with trying to fix what they saw as the 2 biggest problems with chainsaws, It should be self tensioning It should be self sharpening They created some wild stuff. Oregon 80 Series 404 chain is the craziest looking chain I have ever seen that worked. It lives on till this day as a 3/8 LP called powersharp that is sharpened with a stone that goes onto the end of the bar. Oregon also sells an electric saw using this chain with the stone mounted in the clutch over. It looks insane but actually works. The 80 series was sold with all the same promises we get today - 20% faster, longer lasting, easier to sharpen and so on
Are you telling that hopless design self sharpening setup by Oregon has a patent. There are many patents that stop others working in the same area. Many chemical companies put patients out that just stop other manufacturers manufacturing similar products. Dow chemicals have many patents just to stop others from development work. So I can see Oregon did the same. What I said the last big patent in Chainsaw profiles was the semi chisel by Ray Carlton until Stihl released Patent for hexa. In most cases, a patent means you invented a unique product. Patents on improvements on a product that has an expired patent are hard to get granted.
Some interesting info on patents Samsung is the company with the most patents, holding the second position globally with 92,724 active patent families. In 2022, Samsung was granted 6,248 patents, which was more than any other company. Here are some other companies with notable patent counts:  IBM In 2023, IBM was granted 3,953 patents, making it the most-patented company in the United States. However, IBM's patent count has been declining, dropping from 8,681 in 2021 to 4,389 in 2022.  Toyota Motor Corp Toyota holds the most patents in the automotive sector, with 236,808 patents published between 2002 and 2022.  Tencent Tencent holds the most generative AI patents, with 2,074. Tencent plans to add generative AI capabilities to its products, including WeChat.
@ChainsawUsers There's a lot relating to it or other designs trying to achieve the same thing. A UA-cam channel called project of the day did a video on the power sharp stuff last week. I was going to buy a setup but he has shown it well. I passed on the chance to buy a roll of the 404 a few years back. It looks insane and has its own file guide setup. On the semis, I have a bunch of them here that I'll show at some stage. Basically semi's ain't semis. Lots of differences between designs and what they are good at. Some hold an edge forever, others cut fast. They are all walking the line balancing the 2 ideas
@SawChainTheories The more you research this subject, the more information you come across. My next video is chip evacuation. There will be some interesting comments on that subject, lol
For my big saws ( 70cc and up ) I run a 35deg top angle and set the depth gauge at 30thousandths, and they don't dull any faster than my chains for my smaller saws. When you get too extreme with the side angle that is when you will notice your chain getting dull a lot faster.
Well explained Tinker ... I've gone down the square ground rabbit hole. To be honest you need to cut a lot of wood to get the time and effort back , if you cut 200+ cubes or are a logger yes it's worth it ..otherwise go Hexa. You'll probably benefit from a barker box and foam filter from West Coast saws and if you're a pro get your saw ported.
Archer semi chisel 3/8 inch 'out of the box', I've always been impressed with (and everyone I've listened to agrees with my estimation, that Archer chains tend to be hard metal chains, so one needs a hard round file or a grinding wheel to re-sharpen the chain to anything like it's condition 'out of the box'). I still don't think I have figure out how to get that semi chisel stock, to cut through wood as good as when that semi chisel is brand new. But I think I've improved somewhat, and learned how to narrow the gap in performance somewhat. Between semi chisel out of the box, versus re-sharpened. Which is the reason (and it's a bit like the argument for square ground chain), . . everyone talks about handing in chain loops to be square ground, or doing it for oneself, . . but if one could get a place to grind semi chisel chain well, and one had a half a dozen loops of semi chisel, and some mission-critical, or time delay sensitive work in sawing timber to do, . . semi chisel that is well re-touched or edged for you by an expert, would be a great asset. The reason I stopped handing in my semi chisel, is I went back to hand filing instead. And buying more round files in bulk packs. Why? The grinding service I used, just erased half the tooth when grinding the teeth, and even when doing so, the edge wasn't all that fantastic. I said, okay, for the cost of that (particularly in terms of my chains just getting worn down to zero in no time), paying to get a poor grinding job done, and chains not lasting me candle light. I just said, in the absence of a good grinding service, I might as well learn properly how to hand file semi chisel. And it's not easy, there's time that has to be put into practice. Now that grinding sharpening service I mentioned, that I wasn't satisfied with. Would have been fine for the guy who puts Aspen 2 into the saw tank, has one saw to run. And maybe runs the saw once a year. And may have zero time with family life and commitments to sharpen chain, . . even a bad chain grinding service and semi chisel could be good enough. It could be just fine. It's all horses for courses. When I have 'dangerous' timber or trees to fall, I don't take chances. Full chisel, properly prepared and a backup saw fully prepped in case I need it. And that full chisel chain will be hand filed properly, tested out first, and then hand filed again. Why? The less time on it's around a vertical tree which is half sawn through the less risk one is exposed to (granted experts all say not to overcut, by rushing the work and thus expose oneself to risk in that way either). And that's why fallers, loggers who work full time (are exposed to risks constantly at all times), the square ground technology is worth it, because it leads to lower risk exposure. If you're a good tree cutter, who knows what they are doing. And Hexa would be worth it too, for lots of tree workers also, of that variety. The rest of us, full chisel ain't bad if one takes care. Weekend warriors, once a year chainsaw users, maybe the grinding service shop that takes half of your semi chisel chain tooth away in one grind, is probably okay too. Horses for courses.
Yes square ground is the best I had a go at and did ok but it took to long and was more fiddly.
So I went back to round ground.
5%? a worthy avenue to explore me thinks
When I have lots of time will chase these profiles that cut faster.
I reckon' the big innovations of modern chain design is safety - less of us are being mained and klilled. Oh sure the chain brake is awesome
Safety is the most important factor
STIHL currently holds around 2,800 patents and patent applications worldwide. International production and distribution: STIHL manufactures in seven countries worldwide. Our close-knit sales network consists of 42 marketing and sales companies and around 120 importers who supply our worldwide dealer network.
omg. hexa's 10% comes from narrow kerf
10% will come from hexagonal shape and narrow kerf.
Both these give Hexa the edge
@@ChainsawUsers you may know it but check the hexa patent in google patent. there is no mention about cutting efficiency
@@ChainsawUsers omg. i can't reply you by youtube
@hn20281 you just did
@@ChainsawUsers ok. plz see the hexa patent. stihl doesn't say anything about higher or better cutting efficiency. it just says easier filing way improves inacurate filing
The absolute biggest difference is the person holding the file. If you give people a full and semi chisel chain, probably 80% are going to cut faster with a semi chisel after they have filed it just because the semi will tolerate sharpening errors better.
This is Hexas biggest cut speed advantage and most people will get way more than 10% out of it purely because it is difficult to fuck up the sharpening process.
You are missing a lot of patents. OMark / Oregon was obsessed for decades with trying to fix what they saw as the 2 biggest problems with chainsaws,
It should be self tensioning
It should be self sharpening
They created some wild stuff. Oregon 80 Series 404 chain is the craziest looking chain I have ever seen that worked. It lives on till this day as a 3/8 LP called powersharp that is sharpened with a stone that goes onto the end of the bar. Oregon also sells an electric saw using this chain with the stone mounted in the clutch over. It looks insane but actually works.
The 80 series was sold with all the same promises we get today - 20% faster, longer lasting, easier to sharpen and so on
Are you telling that hopless design self sharpening setup by Oregon has a patent.
There are many patents that stop others working in the same area.
Many chemical companies put patients out that just stop other manufacturers manufacturing similar products.
Dow chemicals have many patents just to stop others from development work. So I can see Oregon did the same.
What I said the last big patent in Chainsaw profiles was the semi chisel by Ray Carlton until Stihl released Patent for hexa.
In most cases, a patent means you invented a unique product. Patents on improvements on a product that has an expired patent are hard to get granted.
Some interesting info on patents
Samsung is the company with the most patents, holding the second position globally with 92,724 active patent families. In 2022, Samsung was granted 6,248 patents, which was more than any other company.
Here are some other companies with notable patent counts:

IBM
In 2023, IBM was granted 3,953 patents, making it the most-patented company in the United States. However, IBM's patent count has been declining, dropping from 8,681 in 2021 to 4,389 in 2022.

Toyota Motor Corp
Toyota holds the most patents in the automotive sector, with 236,808 patents published between 2002 and 2022.

Tencent
Tencent holds the most generative AI patents, with 2,074. Tencent plans to add generative AI capabilities to its products, including WeChat.
@ChainsawUsers There's a lot relating to it or other designs trying to achieve the same thing.
A UA-cam channel called project of the day did a video on the power sharp stuff last week. I was going to buy a setup but he has shown it well. I passed on the chance to buy a roll of the 404 a few years back. It looks insane and has its own file guide setup.
On the semis, I have a bunch of them here that I'll show at some stage. Basically semi's ain't semis. Lots of differences between designs and what they are good at. Some hold an edge forever, others cut fast. They are all walking the line balancing the 2 ideas
@SawChainTheories The more you research this subject, the more information you come across.
My next video is chip evacuation. There will be some interesting comments on that subject, lol
@@ChainsawUsers I have tried videoing it at 1000fps. All I know is it's closer to an explosion than a controlled thing