It's really strange watching the big man work upside down. Another excellent video, and very relaxing to watch. Big Clive is the Bob Ross of electronics, happy little lights everywhere.
I'm still loving that etching system. In all the years I've been making PCBs, I never thought to use a plastic bag and clips to keep things neat and clean like that. Very cool! :) Big thanks for sharing your design files, as well.
you know I find his videos generally relaxing. especially compared to the aussie energy on eevblog. something about the accent and the complete lack of jump cuts :)
+killer1479 You're not the only one. And it's not at all because of boredom it's simply because it's always late when I'm watching them and he has a voice like warm honey that just lulls you into relaxation.
I had to laugh. As soon as I thought "Come for the electronics, stay for the enthralling handwork" you mentioned people complimenting your technique. Honestly, that's what made me subscribe. Just amazing.
Wanted to comment on your etching solution solution (hah! I sat on that pun for a while) earlier, but it wasn't relevant enough at the time, but I have a very similar setup at home. Also works with those tubes of vaccuum sealing plastic. The trick to not make the sealed end burst: Seal it, then turn the whole (now on one side closed) tube inside out, and duct(/duck)tape the sealed edge. It effectively doubles the maximum pressure the seal can handle. edit1: Ah! I have exactly the same soldering technique. It's super stable when applying solder! To be honest, I thought everyone did it like this. Cheers man, love the nixies! Awesome video!
+Noob Yeah. I would like to learn that. But in the meantime im using those two clamps with the heavy base(usually have a magnifying glass too). Its a lifesaver for beginners!
Why not make these etching bags (all heat sealed) and sell them as a little kit with the clips and a small amount of ferric chloride and some nice printed instructions?
Lovely. I played with neons quite a lot in the 1960s and 70s. Now I'm acquiring the parts to play some more and borrowing some ideas from you. Thank you. I should point out that you should use a 1N4007 in that application. If you design for worst case and assume just a simple halfwave rectifier and capacitor across the mains (no resistors), the capacitor will charge up to the peak mains voltage, or 240 x 1.414 = 339 volts on the positive half-cycle. The mains then swings to a peak negative voltage of 339 volts, subjecting the diode to a reverse voltage of 680 volts. In your circuit, the resistors and neons limit the voltage on the capacitor to a maximum of 100 volts, but the diode could still see a reverse voltage of 440 volts. Might as well use a 4007 and not tempt fate.
Bingo! I found the "magic" combination for 120 VAC 60 Hz U.S. power: Full wave rectification, so four 1N4007 diodes in a bridge configuration. Each flower is powered by a relaxation oscillator consisting of a 1 meg series resistor and 0.01 uF (10 nF) capacitor. I'm using polyester film caps but 10 nF 3kV ceramics also work fine. With this configuration, brand new six-petal flowers start right up with at least three lamps operating and the rest flickering faintly. Over time the flowers "bloom" into full operation. I found that the flowers "bloom" sooner if initially operated without a 1k current limiting resistor. As soon as full operation is achieved, the 1k resistor should be used with each flower as Clive recommends to prevent electrode sputtering and darkening of the glass envelopes after long-term operation. Some measurements: Average current drain of each flower circuit is 62 microamps or 7.44 milliwatts at 120 VAC. Electricity cost to run a "flower bed" of six flowers is 4.3 cents (U.S.) per year where I live in the U.S.
Your fascination towards shinning things is both amazing and slightly worrying. Would you do more of the simple guides to components or soldering videos please? Real helpful they are.
The Startrek TOS episode where Kirk is held captive on a prison planet, when they put him in the chair that erases your mind, it has that sort of special effect, only about 100 times brighter on the television. Looks WAY better now that we have color TV, although the new Plasma displays don't seem to improve the video stream much. Guess when it was filmed on 35mm film, you can't go back and enhance it for high def.
Looks like a nice fire simulator lamp. I just realised that Bigclive.com is the website i used to visit regularly 15 years ago. And even back then there were some neon projects on there. Nice!
18:30 - "It's a cinch" - The newest hit single by Talk Talk! Also, suppose you didn't trust the bag of neons to be quite as matched as they could be, like the bag I just so happen to have bought earlier on aliexpress, what test setup would you suggest to sort them by strike voltage, please? I've tried to put them all in parallel and pluck them out in the order they drag the voltage down by striking, but it seems to be rather unreliable, and also sorts them, not matches them.
I had a similar gadget, except the neons had their own resistor and capacitor so they would oscillate each at their own speed. I had it in an infinity mirror so each lamp had multiple reflections.
+Mike James - Search for the SENO GS System kit on eBay. At the moment there is one seller offering it. SENO is a registered trademark of a small German firm, Kepets GmbH & Co. KG, Systemtechnik, based in Schöffengrund, Hesse, Germany. It appears to be a side business, because I don't see it mentioned anywhere on the main Kepets Web site, www.kepets.com/, and what SENO documentation I've been able to find online doesn't mention a Web site URL. Kepets' main business is laser engraving equipment.
@5:30 Are you used to use inch? The soldering point, is that not a "drag tip" (or how it is called in English), mainly used for soldering fine-pitch ic's?
For what it's worth, I've got an HP printer, and if you choose to print in grayscale there is an option to use only black. I haven't looked at it with a magnifying glass, but it does appear to be just black (versus the "enhanced" grayscale)
I do the same thing while soldering (holding item and tining/joining with same hand), can't tell you how many times I've burned myself doing that though. Third hands are for the timid (or those who dislike the smell of melting flesh)
For an auto agitator have you ever thought of maybe having something like a small power plate (the exercise machine that vibrates) and just placing it on that?
+azoko100 One could make an agitator like they use in hospitals and laboratories for mixing solutions and blood bags. It only needs to rock back and forth. Or just do it by hand so you don't forget and remove all the copper. That might be a tad irritating. Although, I'm not 100% sure. Mike (o\!/o)
Always use 1 resistor per lamp and put them directly in ac but if you want dc just ad the diode first than resistors and then neon lamps just focus on line tester principle
I'm a electronics newbie really, done a few small projects yet you make everything look so easy.... I'm just wondering if these could be built without the circuit board, as I don't really have the room/ability to create my own boards...
@@bigclivedotcom Whooo I got a reply from BigClive, that's made my day :D - I'm working my way through your old vids, love em, and while I've tried to get into electronics a few times, you might finally make me take the 'deep dive' that is needed to really bed in and learn something. I'll see if the local hackerspace can provide circuits for a reasonable cost (I don't mind waiting a few months til they've got enough to make it worth while etc.). My aim now is to watch ALL your old vids :D
Nixies got their name from the Burroughs Numeric Indicator eXperimental No. 1. The name stuck and is applied to all similar devices with cathodes in the form of numbers or symbols within a single glass envelope. As this is not a numerical indicator, just a set of discrete neons, the term nixie does not really apply - they don't share the same gas and don't have shaped cathodes.
This is very relaxing to lay down to. Observation though, to cheaply automate the agitation. Could you not lay a cheap vibrator from poundland (hehe) under the baggie? Perhaps put it all on a bowl or towel to keep it from vibrating itself off the workbench. I know its been 2,5 years, but still.
Happy Easter my friend. Awesome project. Yup the spray from the rotary etcher we had was evil. So was the shock off a stack of 4ft x 4ft Copper Clad board. Battery or what. Do you have a link to those slide on clips. Had a look and can't find. Now where's my white stick and dark glasses.
+Raymond Earle I pulled a large stack of laminate apart and was surprised at the length of the spark that jumped across them. The bag clips can be found on ebay if you search for bag seal stick.
Oh yes. The sparks were amazing in the dark. We did a lot of work at night just to complete orders. You should have seen how we gold plated edge connectors. It looked like something Jules Vern would think up. Thanks for the info my friend. Found them. I hope Easter was good for you.
Two quick questions: What size (led count) was this kit on ebay? (nevermind, found it) What if you built a tray with an oscillating motor that would automatically slosh the bag back and forth for you? Ok, three questions - Did you remember what gauge the tubing was?
+Gadgetboy I'm not sure about that. For best results I think the UV tubes may be the best way to go. The four tube nail varnish curing units are a really cheap option.
+bigclivedotcom also worth noting, youtube channel NurdRage did a video on how to kick FeCl back into gear from its depleted CuCl state. Switching to cupric chloride means it can be rejuvenated many times with (I believe from memory) hydrogen peroxide and more HCl, commonly available, cheap, and slightly less environmentally horrific :)
+frollard Availability of acids on the Isle of Man is tricky due to extreme hazmat shipping costs. I can buy the dry ferric chloride and get it sent in a sealed bag at normal postal rates. I'd like to try the others. I did try a clear one in the past that had a very short tank life.
bigclivedotcom Fair enough! Just the HCl (hardware store muriatic acid) and peroxide (pharmacy) should be commonly available what seems like worldwide. Perhaps I'm over-estimating how 'local' is 'local' :)
Hydrogen Peroxide is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo verboten these days. Generally any relatively strong oxidisers are due to their lending themselves to creating explosives. At best, and without justification due to your own business , you will get H₂O₂ at absurd prices in tiny bottles of homeopathic strengths at the chemist's, and perhaps in home hair bleaching kits. Especially so in the United Nannydom of GB.
Can you try one where the neons are all linked in pairs, with a cap and 1k per pair? It irritates me that even after 2 days, some neons are noticeably hogging. I expect that would make it much more even yet still retain the random effect.
An excellent video!!! I really do enjoy the kit build ones as they are so instructive and hope you will do more in the future. However I must say I personally prefer the more modern way of making the PCB's--the water-spray film and nail-art UV bath and so on. I do not like those sealed bags at all. A couple of things strike me--when you say it needs to be on for days does that mean it needs to be switched on continuously for days? Also, what makes it more active at night-time? As a bonus, I guess this when coupled to a light-sensor array could be a very nuts-and-bolts way to make a true random number generator for cryptographic purposes--to produce bulk key material for a one-time pad based system for instance.
Clive I love your videos. They are both entertaining and informational. One question. What do you do with all this stuff after the videos. You've shown the inside of your house and it's not stacked to the ceiling so you obviously not like one of those hoarders.
Very good job Clive! May I ask where to get those neon lights. Also it would be amazing to see you build a nixie clock. Im quite facinated with nixie tubes!!
Arse for elbow...my colleagues will be scratching their heads for at least a hundred years or more. Thanks, Clive for giving me some ammunition for the next staff meeting!
BigClive like so many of yours this is a great project. You are a natural storyteller. Newbie question: what voltage rating neon lamps should I look for? You mention when the voltage gets to about 90 then a lamp will light so is that the limit I should look for? I am in the US so will be building the 110v version. Thanks much!
+jims408 That's the standard voltage area of this type of neon lamp. It's commonly used in switch indicators with the resistor value matched to the local mains voltage.
How to resonate with what lamps (noise) other (neighbor) (electricity, radio) devices? You might want to also measure the noise level of the current network and radio noise.
Smashing lamp clive :-) I used to use an ice cream tub to put my ferric chloride in, then the pcb plopped in, and the lifting of one side of the tub in a rocking way. For faster results i put the tub on top of the gas fire, it had a flat top so was ideal for the job ;-D. My pcbs were rough, i drilled them first, then linked the holes up with a pen, not pretty but it worked for what i wanted. The seno gs system was one that my mate had, very nice idea but expensive for someone like me :-(.
+zx8401ztv It's not too expensive by modern standards. The complete kit comes in at around £12 plus VAT from Rapid Electronics. But my improvised version is made entirely out of eBay stuff.
I really like your etching solution, I think I commented on that back when you made your version of it. Really nice! I've forgot about this, but now when you bring it up.. Do you know what does bag clips are called? Can't find them on eBay and never seen them here in Sweden. They seem really nice and much better than those that actually open and clip-close on a bag. I like these slide on, but cant find them. Also, do you think this solution would work for sodium persulfate and the developer sodium hydroxide? Maybe not the developer as it eats away the resist which is some sort of plastic? No idea! =D Your thoughts? Also, I love the lamp! So interesting and fun to watch these videos =D
One small question, Have you ever used Muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide to etch? I have and it works pretty good. Got to do in well ventilated area. love your vids. Thank you.
+Chance Davis This looks pretty close: www.sears.com/stalwart-9-in-1-precision-screwdriver-bit-set/p-00948706000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&gclid=CKTY78Kv5MsCFQFahgodgY0AUQ&gclsrc=aw.ds Has the knurled metal friction group and clip
Hi, although i have no clue what you are going on about in these videos I love them xD is there any chance you could give like a small explanation of what you are doing before the videos?
It seems to me that you could put the whole mess into an agitation tray like those "wave machines" that they sell in novelty shops that rock the base back and forth slowly.
+Markle2k They used to sell rocker trays for etching. But by doing it by hand you are less likely to forget that the PCB is etching. I've done that in the past with my older tank based system and removed every trace of copper from the board.
Oh man, I spent time in a semiconductor lab, we did silver microchip etching mainly. Potassium iodide was our etchant of choice and... Well, it's quite a process xD So much messier than that bag, you'd stain a pair of gloves in the dip tank after one use.
+Lori It starts looking like that as copper builds up in it. If you look up a channel called Nurdrage, that guy goes into various techniques to revivify ferric chloride etchant.
Hey Clive, I didn't know that etching a PCB takes so long. Watching you rock the bag back and forth reminded me of these devices they use when you donate blood. They put the blood bag into a rocking tray that mixes it, so that it won't solidify. Have you considered getting yourself one of those rocking trays or even making one yourself?
I hope you see this Clive. I have a question. I’m just starting to get into playing around with electronics and I have been watching a good bit of your videos and want to start playing around making stuff like this. If you was in my position what kinda stuff would you buy to make a proper supply kit? I’m not asking for lots of links or anything but just a idea of what would be a good place to start as far as buying components. I have a fair bit of tools already as a professional mechanic (good soldering iron, multiple sets of snips, screw drivers, etc) I just don’t know where to start as far as buying a kit of diodes, capacitors, resistors, etc. any help you may give me would be greatly appreciated. Also if it matters I am in the US
For professional grade components you can use US suppliers like Mouser and Digikey. But for fun stuff eBay is a good source of bulk general components or complete kits. I'd suggest buying some cheapo kits from China for some soldering practice. Try this search link and get a few, since they're only a dollar each shipped. www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=flashing+led+suite+kit&_sop=15
+Andreas Yufrizal Salida It's a hybrid material I get from a UK supplier called Mega Electronics. It has two outer layers of fibreglass for good copper adhesion and a bonded paper inner layer.
How are you actually supposed to dispose of the old ferric chloride? Pouring it down the drain wouldn't be the brightest idea considering it being etchant and all..
The official way is to add plaster so it forms a hard disposable lump. It can also be recycled. Many people just dilute it heavily and wash it down the drain.
The green capacitor looks like a run of the mill "PP Metallized Film" Capacitor. 'PP' is Polypropylene, it's not shabby stuff for many things. I usually just call them affectionately "Green dinner mints", lol.
A few questions, which exposure unit do you use and why are you unsing ferric chloride and not f.e. sodium persulfate? Just personal preference or do you get better results?
Can one still get old Soviet-era nixies on eBay? I got some c. 2009 and never got to do anything with them, then had to abandon where I was living... they might have been stolen (barely been back there in years).
In a word Yes. Watching Clive's neon videos got me interested in nixies so I ordered some from the Ukraine. All turned up fine and are working nicely. Lovely things to play with.
+IIGrayfoxII The purpose of two is to increase the voltage rating, typical 1/4w carbon film resistors are rated around 200ish volts. You would be far exceeding that for a 220v rectified mains supply, however many cheap commercial products get away with just one resistor. You could get away with one for 110v(some cheap crap for 220v also uses just one) but resistors are so cheap anyways, so why not just use two if the PCB has a spot for two.
I want to make some of these but I think for just this project buying the Ferric Chloride would be very expensive. So, could you recommend any cheap PCB manufacturer for less than 5 boards, and also could you provide a link where you bought the lamp housing or just the key words, because all I can find have a diffused dome :(
Many of the videos from BigClivedotcom do not have sound. If I download them, the downloaded video does have sound. Any ideas? Debug info says -----> video/mp4; codecs="avc1.4d401e"
+Robert Leifeld It's usually an issue with Dolby processing putting all the mono audio out through an imaginary middle speaker. You may be able to adjust your audio settings to stop that.
I've looked up the plastic tube stuff on ebay and found LDPE tube up to 150µ meant for packaging. do you know if LDPE is the correct stuff for FeCl etchant?
+gigabytex64 The PCB material and my exposure system came from Mega Electronics in the UK. You can rough something up with a UV tube nail varnish curer though.
+bigclivedotcom Thanks I am making light kits for rc cars, planes, trains and boats but by removing a resister it runs 12 or 24v but otherwise it runs on 9v. If one needs something get help and make it yourself, I think thats a good motto.
It's really strange watching the big man work upside down.
Another excellent video, and very relaxing to watch. Big Clive is the Bob Ross of electronics, happy little lights everywhere.
what I did was turned auto rotate off and turned my screen upside down.
Funny how my brain is expecting everything to slide "down" his table now
Very cool lamp! This makes me appreciate neons instead of taking them for granted.
I'm still loving that etching system. In all the years I've been making PCBs, I never thought to use a plastic bag and clips to keep things neat and clean like that. Very cool! :) Big thanks for sharing your design files, as well.
How about a workshop tour?
+Da Butze Yes please.
+Da Butze Great idea !
+Da Butze same here
+Da Butze +bigclivedotcom I was just thinking the same thing.
2020, still no tour.
Watching you develop the circuit is so relaxing xD
you know I find his videos generally relaxing. especially compared to the aussie energy on eevblog. something about the accent and the complete lack of jump cuts :)
+Bobby M I think Big Clive has more of a Bob Ross sort of feel. His videos are quite relaxing to watch.
+bdot02 "Let's put some happy little neons here." I know exactly what you mean :D
+Yankis that would be cool, i find most of clive's videos very asmr like :)
i have actually fallen asleep through a couple
+killer1479 You're not the only one. And it's not at all because of boredom it's simply because it's always late when I'm watching them and he has a voice like warm honey that just lulls you into relaxation.
The natural randomness in these lamps is kinda ingenious.
I had to laugh. As soon as I thought "Come for the electronics, stay for the enthralling handwork" you mentioned people complimenting your technique. Honestly, that's what made me subscribe. Just amazing.
Wanted to comment on your etching solution solution (hah! I sat on that pun for a while) earlier, but it wasn't relevant enough at the time, but I have a very similar setup at home. Also works with those tubes of vaccuum sealing plastic.
The trick to not make the sealed end burst: Seal it, then turn the whole (now on one side closed) tube inside out, and duct(/duck)tape the sealed edge. It effectively doubles the maximum pressure the seal can handle.
edit1: Ah! I have exactly the same soldering technique. It's super stable when applying solder! To be honest, I thought everyone did it like this.
Cheers man, love the nixies! Awesome video!
those soldering skills are pretty impressive, holding the board + iron + solder is quite a feat.
+Noob Yeah. I would like to learn that. But in the meantime im using those two clamps with the heavy base(usually have a magnifying glass too). Its a lifesaver for beginners!
+Divine Linker These are also called "helping hands", by the way
Why not make these etching bags (all heat sealed) and sell them as a little kit with the clips and a small amount of ferric chloride and some nice printed instructions?
Lovely. I played with neons quite a lot in the 1960s and 70s. Now I'm acquiring the parts to play some more and borrowing some ideas from you. Thank you.
I should point out that you should use a 1N4007 in that application. If you design for worst case and assume just a simple halfwave rectifier and capacitor across the mains (no resistors), the capacitor will charge up to the peak mains voltage, or 240 x 1.414 = 339 volts on the positive half-cycle. The mains then swings to a peak negative voltage of 339 volts, subjecting the diode to a reverse voltage of 680 volts. In your circuit, the resistors and neons limit the voltage on the capacitor to a maximum of 100 volts, but the diode could still see a reverse voltage of 440 volts. Might as well use a 4007 and not tempt fate.
Bingo! I found the "magic" combination for 120 VAC 60 Hz U.S. power:
Full wave rectification, so four 1N4007 diodes in a bridge configuration. Each flower is powered by a relaxation oscillator consisting of a 1 meg series resistor and 0.01 uF (10 nF) capacitor. I'm using polyester film caps but 10 nF 3kV ceramics also work fine.
With this configuration, brand new six-petal flowers start right up with at least three lamps operating and the rest flickering faintly. Over time the flowers "bloom" into full operation. I found that the flowers "bloom" sooner if initially operated without a 1k current limiting resistor. As soon as full operation is achieved, the 1k resistor should be used with each flower as Clive recommends to prevent electrode sputtering and darkening of the glass envelopes after long-term operation.
Some measurements: Average current drain of each flower circuit is 62 microamps or 7.44 milliwatts at 120 VAC. Electricity cost to run a "flower bed" of six flowers is 4.3 cents (U.S.) per year where I live in the U.S.
These neon lamps are beautiful, very much inspired to make one of my own.
Your fascination towards shinning things is both amazing and slightly worrying.
Would you do more of the simple guides to components or soldering videos please? Real helpful they are.
I should like to contribute by saying that at first I thought Clive had a plastic bag of strong tea on his bench. Thank you.
The Startrek TOS episode where Kirk is held captive on a prison planet, when they put him in the chair that erases your mind, it has that sort of special effect, only about 100 times brighter on the television. Looks WAY better now that we have color TV, although the new Plasma displays don't seem to improve the video stream much. Guess when it was filmed on 35mm film, you can't go back and enhance it for high def.
Looks like a nice fire simulator lamp.
I just realised that Bigclive.com is the website i used to visit regularly 15 years ago. And even back then there were some neon projects on there. Nice!
If you look at the video of the other one he made he put a diffused cap on. It did indeed look like fire.
18:30 - "It's a cinch" - The newest hit single by Talk Talk!
Also, suppose you didn't trust the bag of neons to be quite as matched as they could be, like the bag I just so happen to have bought earlier on aliexpress, what test setup would you suggest to sort them by strike voltage, please? I've tried to put them all in parallel and pluck them out in the order they drag the voltage down by striking, but it seems to be rather unreliable, and also sorts them, not matches them.
I like this upside camera view!!! I feel like I'm sitting across the table from you.
Clive your dialog managed to make the 10mins of what is (near enough) watching paint dry pass very quickly. :-)
"It's a..cluster of neons, I was gonna say a clusterfuck of neons" - BigClive 2016
haha best quote from this vid
I had a similar gadget, except the neons had their own resistor and capacitor so they would oscillate each at their own speed. I had it in an infinity mirror so each lamp had multiple reflections.
A lump of "blue tack" works well to hold little PCBs. Nice project.
i kinda like the flip, its like you are showing it to someone infront of you
Have you ever played with neon ring counters, nice simple circuit. And when are we going to see Big Clive's etching kits on Ebay.
Big Thumbs Up.
+Mike James - Search for the SENO GS System kit on eBay. At the moment there is one seller offering it. SENO is a registered trademark of a small German firm, Kepets GmbH & Co. KG, Systemtechnik, based in Schöffengrund, Hesse, Germany. It appears to be a side business, because I don't see it mentioned anywhere on the main Kepets Web site, www.kepets.com/, and what SENO documentation I've been able to find online doesn't mention a Web site URL. Kepets' main business is laser engraving equipment.
***** Thanks for the tip. I read German fluently, so using their under-construction site in German is no problem for me.
@5:30 Are you used to use inch?
The soldering point, is that not a "drag tip" (or how it is called in English), mainly used for soldering fine-pitch ic's?
For what it's worth, I've got an HP printer, and if you choose to print in grayscale there is an option to use only black. I haven't looked at it with a magnifying glass, but it does appear to be just black (versus the "enhanced" grayscale)
what does the diode do, apart from lighting one leg of the neons -
+voltare2amstereo Charges the capacitor by DC otherwise it will probably do horrible things.
EDIT: It's covered quite nicely in the description.
I do the same thing while soldering (holding item and tining/joining with same hand), can't tell you how many times I've burned myself doing that though.
Third hands are for the timid (or those who dislike the smell of melting flesh)
the final product looks really good!
Iove that he can make neon light bulbs
Could you make a UV exposure unit out of an old flatbed scanner?
+Slot1Gamer
yes
Loving all these random neon projects you come up with Clive. Do you have a link to the PCB material you use?
+Moonbrony It's an economy hybrid laminate from Mega Electronics in the UK. Fibreglass on the outside but resin bonded paper in the middle.
I must have watched a billion hours of your videos over and over again. lol The Bob Ross of electronics haha
Very nice layout ! BiG up!! Happy Easter!!!
i love watching your vids your relaxing and a great person to learn from ,
For an auto agitator have you ever thought of maybe having something like a small power plate (the exercise machine that vibrates) and just placing it on that?
+azoko100 One could make an agitator like they use in hospitals and laboratories for mixing solutions and blood bags. It only needs to rock back and forth. Or just do it by hand so you don't forget and remove all the copper. That might be a tad irritating. Although, I'm not 100% sure.
Mike (o\!/o)
if you ever sell these as a kit, I would love a few for around the house
I would love it if you could post a list of the components you use for making circuit boards. I like the white boards you use.
Always use 1 resistor per lamp and put them directly in ac but if you want dc just ad the diode first than resistors and then neon lamps just focus on line tester principle
I'm a electronics newbie really, done a few small projects yet you make everything look so easy.... I'm just wondering if these could be built without the circuit board, as I don't really have the room/ability to create my own boards...
As a mains voltage project I'd strongly recommend this one be made only with a PCB. But for low voltage projects hard wiring is a good option.
@@bigclivedotcom Whooo I got a reply from BigClive, that's made my day :D - I'm working my way through your old vids, love em, and while I've tried to get into electronics a few times, you might finally make me take the 'deep dive' that is needed to really bed in and learn something.
I'll see if the local hackerspace can provide circuits for a reasonable cost (I don't mind waiting a few months til they've got enough to make it worth while etc.).
My aim now is to watch ALL your old vids :D
Nixies got their name from the Burroughs Numeric Indicator eXperimental No. 1. The name stuck and is applied to all similar devices with cathodes in the form of numbers or symbols within a single glass envelope. As this is not a numerical indicator, just a set of discrete neons, the term nixie does not really apply - they don't share the same gas and don't have shaped cathodes.
I'm practicing your multi-finger soldering technique whenever I can, but man.. It's going to take some time getting used to :)
+pepzi Don't worry, it'll all just happen naturally the more you solder.
+bigclivedotcom or you could get the extra thumbs implanted
This is very relaxing to lay down to.
Observation though, to cheaply automate the agitation. Could you not lay a cheap vibrator from poundland (hehe) under the baggie? Perhaps put it all on a bowl or towel to keep it from vibrating itself off the workbench.
I know its been 2,5 years, but still.
Happy Easter my friend. Awesome project. Yup the spray from the rotary etcher we had was evil. So was the shock off a stack of 4ft x 4ft Copper Clad board. Battery or what. Do you have a link to those slide on clips. Had a look and can't find. Now where's my white stick and dark glasses.
+Raymond Earle I pulled a large stack of laminate apart and was surprised at the length of the spark that jumped across them. The bag clips can be found on ebay if you search for bag seal stick.
Oh yes. The sparks were amazing in the dark. We did a lot of work at night just to complete orders. You should have seen how we gold plated edge connectors. It looked like something Jules Vern would think up. Thanks for the info my friend. Found them. I hope Easter was good for you.
Two quick questions:
What size (led count) was this kit on ebay? (nevermind, found it)
What if you built a tray with an oscillating motor that would automatically slosh the bag back and forth for you?
Ok, three questions - Did you remember what gauge the tubing was?
+Gadgetboy 500 gauge 6 inch wide polythene tubing. There was a system that rocked an etching tray available in the past.
Would UV LED's be capable of exposing PCBs?
+Gadgetboy I'm not sure about that. For best results I think the UV tubes may be the best way to go. The four tube nail varnish curing units are a really cheap option.
It was just a thought, because I found a bag of 100 UV LEDs on eBay for 5$
How do you know when it's time to change the liquid in the bag?
+Gooberslot The etching takes longer and longer.
+bigclivedotcom also worth noting, youtube channel NurdRage did a video on how to kick FeCl back into gear from its depleted CuCl state. Switching to cupric chloride means it can be rejuvenated many times with (I believe from memory) hydrogen peroxide and more HCl, commonly available, cheap, and slightly less environmentally horrific :)
+frollard Availability of acids on the Isle of Man is tricky due to extreme hazmat shipping costs. I can buy the dry ferric chloride and get it sent in a sealed bag at normal postal rates. I'd like to try the others. I did try a clear one in the past that had a very short tank life.
bigclivedotcom Fair enough! Just the HCl (hardware store muriatic acid) and peroxide (pharmacy) should be commonly available what seems like worldwide. Perhaps I'm over-estimating how 'local' is 'local' :)
Hydrogen Peroxide is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo verboten these days. Generally any relatively strong oxidisers are due to their lending themselves to creating explosives. At best, and without justification due to your own business , you will get H₂O₂ at absurd prices in tiny bottles of homeopathic strengths at the chemist's, and perhaps in home hair bleaching kits. Especially so in the United Nannydom of GB.
Can you try one where the neons are all linked in pairs, with a cap and 1k per pair? It irritates me that even after 2 days, some neons are noticeably hogging. I expect that would make it much more even yet still retain the random effect.
Clive, can you post a link to where i can purchase that kind of white PCB-material? I'd like to try it out on our PCB-mill. I like the looks of it.
I think it's just FR-2 pcb, as opposed to the more common FR-4.
This etching system could do the kind of etched componants used is scale modelling couldn't it?
An excellent video!!! I really do enjoy the kit build ones as they are so instructive and hope you will do more in the future. However I must say I personally prefer the more modern way of making the PCB's--the water-spray film and nail-art UV bath and so on. I do not like those sealed bags at all.
A couple of things strike me--when you say it needs to be on for days does that mean it needs to be switched on continuously for days? Also, what makes it more active at night-time?
As a bonus, I guess this when coupled to a light-sensor array could be a very nuts-and-bolts way to make a true random number generator for cryptographic purposes--to produce bulk key material for a one-time pad based system for instance.
Clive I love your videos. They are both entertaining and informational. One question. What do you do with all this stuff after the videos. You've shown the inside of your house and it's not stacked to the ceiling so you obviously not like one of those hoarders.
+WVVan1 Not stacked to the ceiling YET. Give it time. All technical stuff though.
please teach us how to change the magnetic door chime sound
What sort of power draw does this have? I'm tempted to make a little project out of it.
+Prehistoricman Virtually zero. A fraction of a watt.
bigclivedotcom That's incredible.
+Prehistoricman It's not bright. It's just a decorative light.
Very good job Clive! May I ask where to get those neon lights. Also it would be amazing to see you build a nixie clock. Im quite facinated with nixie tubes!!
Arse for elbow...my colleagues will be scratching their heads for at least a hundred years or more. Thanks, Clive for giving me some ammunition for the next staff meeting!
Another great video Clive! - i must try to make one myself!!!
+Edward Bailey The PCB file and a link to the viewer and printer is here:
www.bigclive.com/freebies.htm
BigClive like so many of yours this is a great project. You are a natural storyteller. Newbie question: what voltage rating neon lamps should I look for? You mention when the voltage gets to about 90 then a lamp will light so is that the limit I should look for? I am in the US so will be building the 110v version. Thanks much!
+jims408 That's the standard voltage area of this type of neon lamp. It's commonly used in switch indicators with the resistor value matched to the local mains voltage.
+bigclivedotcom Thanks!
How to resonate with what lamps (noise) other (neighbor) (electricity, radio) devices? You might want to also measure the noise level of the current network and radio noise.
Very good Clive, very good
Clive, shouldn't you be using 240V not 230? Or does it just not matter?
Smashing lamp clive :-)
I used to use an ice cream tub to put my ferric chloride in, then the pcb plopped in, and the lifting of one side of the tub in a rocking way.
For faster results i put the tub on top of the gas fire, it had a flat top so was ideal for the job ;-D.
My pcbs were rough, i drilled them first, then linked the holes up with a pen, not pretty but it worked for what i wanted.
The seno gs system was one that my mate had, very nice idea but expensive for someone like me :-(.
+zx8401ztv It's not too expensive by modern standards. The complete kit comes in at around £12 plus VAT from Rapid Electronics. But my improvised version is made entirely out of eBay stuff.
I really like your etching solution, I think I commented on that back when you made your version of it. Really nice!
I've forgot about this, but now when you bring it up.. Do you know what does bag clips are called? Can't find them on eBay and never seen them here in Sweden. They seem really nice and much better than those that actually open and clip-close on a bag. I like these slide on, but cant find them.
Also, do you think this solution would work for sodium persulfate and the developer sodium hydroxide? Maybe not the developer as it eats away the resist which is some sort of plastic? No idea! =D
Your thoughts?
Also, I love the lamp! So interesting and fun to watch these videos =D
+Chris Fredriksson They seem to be called bag seal sticks.
One small question, Have you ever used Muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide to etch? I have and it works pretty good. Got to do in well ventilated area. love your vids. Thank you.
What kind of screwdriver do you have? it looks really nice and you use it in almost every video
+Chance Davis It's generically called a 9 in 1 driver.
Try poundland. They had some in the Tommy Walsh range for a quid. I picked up five the other week.
Great video as ever Clive.
bigclivedotcom Thanks! picked one up on eBay for just over a dollar
+Chance Davis This looks pretty close: www.sears.com/stalwart-9-in-1-precision-screwdriver-bit-set/p-00948706000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&gclid=CKTY78Kv5MsCFQFahgodgY0AUQ&gclsrc=aw.ds
Has the knurled metal friction group and clip
Hi, although i have no clue what you are going on about in these videos I love them xD is there any chance you could give like a small explanation of what you are doing before the videos?
Make a Nixie tube clock would love to see that
hello big clive have you seen the nixie watch
It seems to me that you could put the whole mess into an agitation tray like those "wave machines" that they sell in novelty shops that rock the base back and forth slowly.
+Markle2k They used to sell rocker trays for etching. But by doing it by hand you are less likely to forget that the PCB is etching. I've done that in the past with my older tank based system and removed every trace of copper from the board.
Oh man, I spent time in a semiconductor lab, we did silver microchip etching mainly. Potassium iodide was our etchant of choice and... Well, it's quite a process xD So much messier than that bag, you'd stain a pair of gloves in the dip tank after one use.
Hi there clive! I was just wondering... why does your ferric chloride solution look so milky/opaque? Used to seeing a *dark* transparent liquid.
+Lori It starts looking like that as copper builds up in it. If you look up a channel called Nurdrage, that guy goes into various techniques to revivify ferric chloride etchant.
Ahh! I figured that might be the case... but I figured I'd ask anyhow. :D
+Lori It's also fairly new and not all of it dissolved. I should add a bit more water.
nice three handed soldiering skills!
Hey Clive, I didn't know that etching a PCB takes so long. Watching you rock the bag back and forth reminded me of these devices they use when you donate blood. They put the blood bag into a rocking tray that mixes it, so that it won't solidify. Have you considered getting yourself one of those rocking trays or even making one yourself?
Other workshop? Why haven't seen this?
What was the power draw Clive?
Next to zero. It's just decorative so a tiny fraction of a watt.
I hope you see this Clive. I have a question. I’m just starting to get into playing around with electronics and I have been watching a good bit of your videos and want to start playing around making stuff like this. If you was in my position what kinda stuff would you buy to make a proper supply kit? I’m not asking for lots of links or anything but just a idea of what would be a good place to start as far as buying components. I have a fair bit of tools already as a professional mechanic (good soldering iron, multiple sets of snips, screw drivers, etc) I just don’t know where to start as far as buying a kit of diodes, capacitors, resistors, etc. any help you may give me would be greatly appreciated. Also if it matters I am in the US
For professional grade components you can use US suppliers like Mouser and Digikey. But for fun stuff eBay is a good source of bulk general components or complete kits. I'd suggest buying some cheapo kits from China for some soldering practice. Try this search link and get a few, since they're only a dollar each shipped.
www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=flashing+led+suite+kit&_sop=15
bigclivedotcom cool. Thank you sir.
nice white pcb. where can I buy it?
+Andreas Yufrizal Salida It's a hybrid material I get from a UK supplier called Mega Electronics. It has two outer layers of fibreglass for good copper adhesion and a bonded paper inner layer.
IS there a good economical place to order nixie digit tubes or a good LED remake?
How are you actually supposed to dispose of the old ferric chloride? Pouring it down the drain wouldn't be the brightest idea considering it being etchant and all..
The official way is to add plaster so it forms a hard disposable lump. It can also be recycled. Many people just dilute it heavily and wash it down the drain.
Question, do you sometimes use a lead former or always bend the leads by hand?
+Bigrignohio I use a lead forming tool, but only because I have one. Bending by hand is fine.
Is the light emiitted the same if the neon lamps are operating on ac or dc?
It's lower altogether in this design because of the high current limiting.
How do you know when the ferric chloride solution becomes saturated? Does it gradually lose etching power?
+trustnoone81 Yes, it takes longer and longer.
The green capacitor looks like a run of the mill "PP Metallized Film" Capacitor. 'PP' is Polypropylene, it's not shabby stuff for many things. I usually just call them affectionately "Green dinner mints", lol.
where can you buy the neon indicators? link from rapid?
+Bogdan Productions www.rapidonline.com/electronic-components/rvfm-ne-2h-6mm-miniature-neon-wire-ended-42-0300
+bigclivedotcom thanks
A few questions, which exposure unit do you use and why are you unsing ferric chloride and not f.e. sodium persulfate? Just personal preference or do you get better results?
+dream.Unskilled Habit and availability.
Can one still get old Soviet-era nixies on eBay? I got some c. 2009 and never got to do anything with them, then had to abandon where I was living... they might have been stolen (barely been back there in years).
In a word Yes. Watching Clive's neon videos got me interested in nixies so I ordered some from the Ukraine. All turned up fine and are working nicely. Lovely things to play with.
Could you use a 1 440K resistor for 240v and 1 96K for 120v rather than 2
+IIGrayfoxII The purpose of two is to increase the voltage rating, typical 1/4w carbon film resistors are rated around 200ish volts. You would be far exceeding that for a 220v rectified mains supply, however many cheap commercial products get away with just one resistor. You could get away with one for 110v(some cheap crap for 220v also uses just one) but resistors are so cheap anyways, so why not just use two if the PCB has a spot for two.
+IIGrayfoxII What Andrew said. But also, 440K and 96K are not standard values whereas 220K and 47K are.
i heard you say that you were putting the board on the net. where? id like to buy one :D lol
I want to make some of these but I think for just this project buying the Ferric Chloride would be very expensive.
So, could you recommend any cheap PCB manufacturer for less than 5 boards, and also could you provide a link where you bought the lamp housing or just the key words, because all I can find have a diffused dome :(
I use pcbway. they are the cheapest I can find.
P.s. I was on the skytrain the other day and saw someone who looked exactly like you, right down to the beard.
I actually like the image flip, makes it more face-to-face than your usual I-am-you view, if you get what i mean ;)
+Justin Koenig That's how I experienced it too.
The first thirteen minutes of this video gives me flashbacks to the three years I had a colostomy bag :(
+GameraTheBrave I loled. Sorry dude.
I love this idea!
I must build one!
what program do you design your p.c.b.s with
+Connorocker Gaming Sprint layout. You've just reminded me... I didn't put a link to the PCB file in the description.
How do you spell that? Ceno JS? GS?
+Daniel Heppner Seno GS . Looks like the SN3300 is the kit in question.
Rapid Electronics or EBay
Hi Clive would it be possible to get a link for the neon's you used please.
www.rapidonline.com/rvfm-ne-2h-6mm-miniature-neon-wire-ended-42-0300
Thats great thank you.
Many of the videos from BigClivedotcom do not have sound. If I download them, the downloaded video does have sound. Any ideas? Debug info says ----->
video/mp4; codecs="avc1.4d401e"
+Robert Leifeld It's usually an issue with Dolby processing putting all the mono audio out through an imaginary middle speaker. You may be able to adjust your audio settings to stop that.
just curious, but how random is the blinking?
+SirArghPirate very random. It's affected by ambient light and electrical fields.
I've looked up the plastic tube stuff on ebay and found LDPE tube up to 150µ meant for packaging. do you know if LDPE is the correct stuff for FeCl etchant?
do you have a link for the board and can you also do the same for the uv system for developing. please
+gigabytex64 The PCB material and my exposure system came from Mega Electronics in the UK. You can rough something up with a UV tube nail varnish curer though.
+bigclivedotcom Thanks I am making light kits for rc cars, planes, trains and boats but by removing a resister it runs 12 or 24v but otherwise it runs on 9v. If one needs something get help and make it yourself, I think thats a good motto.
Hello Clive, I can't get the name of the original board eatch system you copied, could you write the name?
+godzil42 Ok didn't saw that someone post a comment with the name (SENO GS) :D