New Theory on Meat Addiction
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2024
- Dr. Michael Klaper recently presented the idea of particular preformed compounds in meat leading to withdrawal symptoms when going vegan. Let's investigate and see what the research says about these compounds and meat addiction generally.
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Dr. Klaper on The Real Truth About Health:
• Can Everybody Be Vegan...
TMAO Citation:
www.ncbi.nlm.n...
Carnitine Basics: ods.od.nih.gov...
Myoglobin Citation:
my.clevelandcl...
"There is virtually no absorption of peptides longer than four amino acids." www.vivo.colost...
Carnitine Citation 2:
lpi.oregonstat...
RCT on Carnitine and Creatine at 3, 6 Months:
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
Creatine Brain Levels Vegetarians Equal: www.researchga...
Creatine Supplements Don't Raise Brain Levels:
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
Creatine Supplements Raise IGF-1:
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
Creatine Supplement Withdrawal Fatigue Claim:
www.livestrong...
Ceasing Creatine Lowered Muscle Endurance, Not Strength: pubmed.ncbi.nl...
Hypoxanthine Levels High in Meat, Low in Plants:
docsdrive.com/...
www.jstage.jst...
"...beef contained a high amount of inosine monophosphate, inosine, and hypoxanthine. 38" www.jstage.jst...
Hypoxanthine, Inosine Bind to Adenosine Receptor:
www.ncbi.nlm.n...
Hypoxanthine Crosses blood brain barrier:
pubmed.ncbi.nl...
Hypoxanthine Lowers in Addicts:
www.sciencedir...
Hypoxanthine Beef Patch Concept:
www.adcn.nl/ar....
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I think everyone is different in this way. I grew up eating meat but stopping meat was extremely easy for me! I never ever crave it, it's so much easier to stop eating meat compared to dairy products or sugar.
I agree. Dairy was so hard
I too had no problem cutting out meat when I went WFPB two years ago at the age of 67. Unlike many, I had no cravings for cheese or anything else either when I dropped them at the same time -- clearly, I was lucky. I had no particular likings for cheese and most meats, and ate them because I was told that they were important. I did like duck, pork and bacon but don't miss them.
Same! No problem stopping da flesh.
@@MictheVegan hi I'm Andrew, I'm 16 and I've been vegan for almost a year now. Would it be ok if I emailed you so I could tell you about some issues I've encountered and see if you can help me find a solution?
i had no problem to stop eating dairy products, was never addicted to cheese and i have lactose intolerance, was only addicted to those chocolate dairy products but when i discovered there are vegan chocolate products i had no problem to stop eating dairy and no longer having to suffer stomach cramps so it's a win-win
Just want to say thank you. I went vegan for the ethical side, but understanding the science behind so many more aspects from you has been so helpful over the years.
Same
It’s always reassuring to know the facts when someone feels the need to challenge our vegan choices.
Love you! I'm so grateful for the love you pour out on animals!!! 😇
If you haven't found them yet, Nutrition Made Simple and Plant Chompers are two other excellent PB UA-cam channels. Both are great on the science, and the second one gets more into the back story about how people have been fooled about nutrition.
I'm sorry, but you really need to understand that this guy does not provide the facts it's misinformation. if you can't pick up on this, have a look on UA-cam where some highly smart, experiencd, qualified individuals breakit all down for you.
I think the gut microbiome tend to crave what we have fed it, and it will take some time to build a new set of microbes. Cravings change a lot.
Absolutely. I personally got used to eating a lot of raw carrots throughout the week and when I don't eat them for about 2 days, I start craving carrots.
@@observingsystem Yes, my tastes and wants have changed a lot over the years. I don't even like vegan things that taste too much like how I remember meat tasting. But I remember when I stopped eating meat 53 years ago, that I really wanted meat balls in the start. Now they smell disgusting to me.
@@carinaekstrom1 Ah yes, I can really relate to that. I eat less meat substitutes these days (more seitan and lentils, almost never the burgers anymore) and I tried something a while ago that just was too much like real steak and it made me feel queezy a bit. It was not for me anymore, even though it was 100% plant based (I checked 5 times just in case). But yes, in the beginning it was different too for me for sure, very much the same experience that way.
@@carinaekstrom1 I wonder how much the digestive juices change? They've got to be stronger while eating a heavily meat diet, & take time to change. It was the same when Chinese restaurants or takeaways first started, all the meat eaters complained how they all felt hungry 30 minutes later.
@@jonahwhale9047 Yes, I haven't thought about that, but I think we have digestive juices that are always ready to adjust to the foods we eat. Also, people probably have different ideas of how they should feel after a meal. If you are used to feeling full for hours after eating, it may feel strange when everything normalizes after eating foods that are easier to digest. They might think they are "hungry" when they just don't feel stuffed for as long as they are used to.
The fact that many people use the same methods used to quit addictions to become vegan has always made me think that meat has similiar effects on people as drugs and aclohol. I mean, how many people have become vegan by ditching meat a little bit at a time, the same way drug users or alcoholics do to quit their addiction?
Psychological addiction is still a addiction. And withdrawal can still give serious effects.
So if you believe you need meat on some level and aren't getting it. You can experience withdrawal.
Good point. I also think of casomorphines in cheese, maybe there's something addictive in meat that they just haven't found yet. I heard somewhere, I don't know if it's true, that the stress hormones in meat are a trigger for certain neurotransmitters, maybe there's something to that, but I don't know about real research on this subject. Our bodies seem to have a knack for addicting us to things that aren't so great for us by the way, so there's that too.
Really? You place meat in the same tier as drugs or alcohol because...people struggle to transition after cutting the most nutrient-dense food item out of their diet?
Wouldn't it be more reasonable to assume these people had just not done enough research and were still struggling to figure out how to meet their unique nutritional requirements, or that their microbiome needed time to adjust to such an extreme change? Even carnivores taper off their vegetable intake over the course of weeks when transitioning. Literally anyone who goes from eating intuitively to eating in a way that is completely foreign will have a refractory period.
alcohol is also a drug
With rats and sugar if they are put on a high sugar diet and you cut the sugar to really low they will literally start starving themselves and take a few days to start eating normally again. Children whose parents give their kids junk food only create the same situation with their children, they literally won't eat normal food unless it's got plenty of sugar and or fried carbohydrates. For meat or in particular high protein concentrated food probably has the same effect. So feeding them pretend meat should satisfy them from an ability to easily eat because it's the same feeling essentially but probably not from a nutritional point of view.
My bf was a big meat eater for 48 years. He's vegan now, and doesn't miss meat at all. 🤷♀️
That’s awesome 👏. May i ask how did he decide to change?
Give him some time to burn through his reserves
@@kulata exactly, get a vegan drunk enough and offer them a Taco, its like they are having sex with the thing lol.
he is lying to you. he is most likely eating meat in secret.
I will say the first few months of being vegan I felt like i I wasn’t satisfied no matter how much I ate and even gained weight for a little while because of it. It certainly wasn’t a lack of calories and I was eating WFPB so tons of fiber and even tried concentrating more on protein so tons of beans, nuts and seeds. In the end it just took a few months for my body to adjust.
Nuts are fairly calorie heavy and not the most satiety inducing tbf
If you switch from a meat-heavy diet to whole food plant based, you'll end up decreasing the proportion of your calories that come from protein. That's not necessarily a bad thing in the long term but it can take a while for the body to adjust if you suddenly shift your macronutrients. Mock-meats and protein powder can help with the transition.
@@BulbasaurLeaves Mock meats are just that, a mockery. I love an Indian vegetarian curry, alongside a traditional or signature goat curry of course though, Muslim Indians see them as the spicy appetizer between the big chunks of meat and it works well.
Can't beat slow cooked meat with bones, slow cooked veges are just soggy
This is interesting because years ago I was vegetarian for about 3 years and I began to crave beef but most especially I craved fish. I caved one day and bought some sushi and the first thing I did was take the raw salmon off the top of the roll and devour it like a starving animal. I felt so good like having a cool beverage after being dehydrated all day. I went pescatarian and eventually went back to eating animals altogether. I have been trying to transition back into a fully vegan diet for quite a few months now. We will see how it goes.
sounds like Omega-3 deficiency. were you supplementing?
If you go vegan again you should keep track of what you eat for the nutrients. When I went vegan the only thing I still craved was yogurt and then I found out I wasn’t getting enough calcium.
the vast majority of commercial omega 3 supplements are usually garbage that will do more harm than good due to the aldehydes present. omega 3's from natural sources, especially fish, are nevertheless unrivaled.
You got this! Once you know what nutrients your regular meals are lacking, you'll know what you might need to supplement or add in to get everything!
You can do it! Maybe a focus on omega 3s would help?
Interesting video again, Mic. It made me think of dr. Greger's video "What not to eat for stroke prevention", in which he mentions the link between carnitine, choline and TMAO. I thought you might find this interesting, if you haven't seen that one already. I'd like to add that I've been vegan for almost 10 years and I was feeling better on a vegan diet already than on an omnivore or vegetarian one, but about 2 years ago I started talking creatine and I do find it useful, for me, because it seems to help me build muscles better and gives me the feeling I have more brainpower, but the latter could just be the placebo effect lol.
I started to take some moderate creatine too and felt that it helped me too to build muscle mass - difficult enough for past- menopausal woman - Uggh. It is a fine line I try to walk to not risk (cancer) cell growth but to help muscular function, stability etc.
@@Test-eb9bj I heard walking is the best exercise, even better than running
@@observingsystem Yes, the effect of consistent/every day (!) moderate & brisk walking is underrated. I have integrated that (15min Nordic walking) in my daily routine as a warm up for my strength training. I might amp that up with wearing a weight west to help bone density as I do not do any jumping/jogging/skipping Sports due to foot & knee problems. To care about „optimal health vs. „Just“ Performance in a single fields turns out to be quite time consuming and difficult to combine with work requirements and having a social life too. But I do my best and I try to improve.
9:33 well I wouldn't be surprised. When animals die on farms it's usually in horrifying situations. We release chemicals when we die so meat eaters are essentially eating those chemicals too.
I’ve been told by a farmer that an especially stressful death changes the flavor of the meat. Definitely makes you think…
@@PrecioustheMovie1 it's scary to think about
There are some places where they kill the animals while they are stressed to get a better quality flesh. :/
Forgot where.
Makes sense that the meat-eater would somehow be ingesting at least a little of that fight-or-flight adredaline which was flooding the animal's system at the time of their slaughter, and that that might give him a (very small but perceptible maybe?) adrenaline rush of his own?
Tell meat-eaters about a plant based lifestyle and you get: Anger - Excuses - Rationalizing - Blame - Avoidance - Lies - etc
Same as w drugs or other addictive habits (and now phone/social media joined the chat too)
@ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ ٴ You have an interesting theory that you can placate omnivores by
being logical and scientific. Have you tried this and is your name earthling ed?. I agree with Atlantic. All humans defend their choices and habits when given the opposite choices. If an omnivore starts telling me about the wonderful benefits of eating flesh, blood, and cheese--and how we have been doing that for thousands of years, , it would not convince me to consume it again. It is also true, everything in our life has some risk. Veganism is an opportunity for
change, but many ex-vegans make inadequate choices of foods and nutrition and are making the opportunity,
very risky. Cheers.
I think the dependence on meat is almost purely psychological.
Most dependence is, that doesn't really make it not real though
I felt kind of anxious when I first gave up meat, but that feeling eventually stopped although I can’t remember how long it took. I think that part of it is psychological because our society still views meat as essential, but the anxiousness also seemed biological, like withdrawal. Going vegan was a similar experience, but only a number of months later it felt normal and actually the thought of eating cheese and eggs now makes me want to vomit, and I think, “How did I eat that disgusting stuff?!”
People should be told that it may take a while for the body to adjust, but it will eventually adjust if their plant-based diet contains enough calories/nutrients.
Yes. I agree. It seems a lot of the cravings for animal flesh is psychological and social conditioning. People say that eating meat is satiating but I wonder if that is true why are so many meat eaters obese? Fast food has messed up our body clocks and that is another reason for constant meat cravings. I am glad that I am vegan and I wish there were more of us.🌱
Key word you said here, “Our society still views meat as essential” Our society yes, what about other societies that live in areas where fruits and vegetables don’t grown well like desert regions, cold mountain regions etc? Yeah we have places that in the U.S. but it’s a privilege to eat vegan in the U.S. Many countries that have large populations of people living in desert, mountains etc don’t eat much else besides meat, flour, grains. It’s honestly ignorant to think that people can actually eat vegan in these places. I was born in the Middle East and we have plenty of cultures that live off of goat meat, goat milk, cheese curds, and flour/grains. It’s a privilege to eat vegan.
@@ManUtd503 most food in desert areas is imported.
@@kathivy Correct, most food in desert areas are imported which means in poor countries that happen to be in desert regions, it’s very expensive for the locals to pay for imported goods. This is why in desert regions located in poor countries, people have animals. Animals like goats which produce milk which they then make yogurt and cheese Kurds which many rely on.
I understand that in desert regions in the U.S. people still have access to all types of foods but like I mentioned, we are privileged here. Eating vegan isn’t a privilege if your doing it from within the U.S but from the outside looking in, it’s absolutely a privilege but to be fair, eating expensive cuts of meat is also a privilege so it doesn’t just apply to vegans but understand most of the world, eats what they have available in their area, they don’t get to chose like we do.
@@ManUtd503 when most food is imported, that means that most food is not raised domestically, in other words, most people in desert regions are eating imported food not raising goats for milk or meat. Grains and beans are the cheapest food.
@Mic the Vegan , where is this guy getting that we former Omnis were fed meat three times a day, every day? My family was meat centred, and yet we had it no more than twice a day, sometimes only once. We were raised eating cold cereal or oatmeal for breakfast (with milk), and often ate p.b.&j. for lunch. Snacks were always fruit, like raisins, bananas, or (yuck) apples. Other days, we might have an egg and cheese sandwich for lunch, occasionally tuna salad. We did have meat for every dinner, but dad was heavily fruit and veg oriented, in spite of being a die hard (and he did) carnist. Up till adolescence, he made a tossed salad with almost every dinner, and gave us kids bread and butter (usually margarine) to hold us off while he and mom cooked dinner. He made home made pizza crust, and shredded cheese himself, because it used to be cheaper to buy it whole.
He once told me, "I know you and your sister mean well, but even if it takes a few years off my life, I'm going to eat what I like, and like what I eat." After his genetically induced liver failure and transplant, he lived 7 years, with Type II diabetes, dying at 57 of an intestinal rupture, resulting in septic shock. I'm 53, living with undetectable HIV for a quarter century now, because I take my meds, and my bloodwork looks like I'm in my 20s. He could have lived to see his other three grandkids, and see me performing on stage these days with the Knoxville Gay Men's Chorus.
I remember a stat from years ago that something like 3/4 of people eat meat three times and fast food twice a day. Sausage something or bacon for breakfast, meat sandwich or chicken on salad for lunch and some cut of meat for dinner. That was most of my friends diet everyday.
I think it's possible. It's not like the transition is easy for everyone. We shouldn't pretend that it's a walk in the park. There are challenges. Some of us are just willing to move past them and thrive as a vegan or vegetarian.
Dr. Gregor did mention in an interview with an English journalist while promoting 'Game Changers' that some people do experience some withdrawal type symptoms after stopping meat, and suggested eating a very small portion of meat as a supplement striving for longer and longer intervals between until the body adjusts. I personally have issues with dairy, if I miss it in an ingredient list I will be craving it for days after, and its not expectation because I have had at least one instance where I didn't realize what happened until 2 weeks later when I went to make the food again and only then noticed there was dairy in it. Now I know to be even more careful!
To answer your question: it's iodine.
From the iodine used to sanitize cow utters from the milking machines, gets in the milk.
When i went vegan i caved about 3 times in the first 3 months, every time with either highly nostalgic foods or novel items i had always wanted to try. Eventually because i was also working out for weight loss, i started tracking nutrition. That made it pretty obvious that I was simply deficient on calories AND fats. I added Omega 3, carnitine, and creatine supplements and i stopped noticing the cravings. Eventually i stopped taking most of the supplements ASI got better at incorporating whole foods, and the cravings didn't return.
My PSA is to track calories and macros, you need a certain amount of fat in the diet to synthesize testosterone, and cutting animal products can risk deficiencies in those factors.
Hormones are effective in tiny amounts compared to things like fat tho. Do you need say 20 grams of fat to synthesize a few milligrams of testosterone, I really don't think so. There's probably a low bar that you need to meet when it comes to fat.
The average American diet appears to be approx 70% plant-based (non animal foods/products).
Heavily processed foods, sugars refined grains are probably the main cause of poor health not animal products.
No. It's the seed oils and vegetable oils hidden on those carbs causing issues. Not sugar itself
Yes, processed foods are the #1 cause of health problems, but eating too many animal foods is the #2 cause.
Als an active guy I can say I felt like I had to supplement creatine to keep my level of athleticism.
Not a big deal though, tons of guy who eat meat supplement creatine as well, but I really did felt weaker without it.
@ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ ٴ Lol that’s the dumbest shit I‘ve heard in a while.
One keeps reading and hearing of people who say, sincerely, that they simply cannot be well without the meat they are used to, so this subject is worth studying. Maybe some hormones in meat have a stimulating effect... here in India millions of people, although not more than probably 30% of the population, go through life never having had any meat ever. It's a complicated world, lots to study. Some of those other things like sodium and calorie density which you mentioned could play a role.
I saw Dr. Klaper's video recently. Thanks for the response video, I think the point did deserve a video. 👍
Why do you think cardiovascular health of Indians is so bad considering the high intake of legumes and grains, low intake of saturated fat and low rates of smoking and drinking?
@@Mario-forall india is very complex, great diversity. Urban Indian people have a lot of processed food, fried food, commercial snack foods, sugar, dairy and of course the 70% or more majority has animal flesh and eggs too. The rural people especially the less wealthy have better health, as they have less refined food and less animal foods.
Urban Indians don't have low intake of saturated fat. Broadly speaking. The vegetarians and non vegetarians have a lot of dairy, milk, paneer, cheese, butter and ghee.
@@deepakhiranandani6488 I was talking about averages. As a country, on average India has lower intake of sugar, saturated fat, tobacco and alcohol than most European countries, however Indians' rate of heart disease is about double of Europeans'.
@@Mario-forall statistics, ways of collecting data, sampling... great diversity. But we are said to be genetically vulnerable, central obesity (bulging at waist) even without overall obesity is said to be more likely. For us cut off figures for BMI are 23 and 28 not 25 and 30. High salt diet too. But I still feel there's a marked difference in incidence in rural especially less wealthy rural as compared to urban dwellers.
@Han Boetes Thanks. I suppose... anyhow that's something to keep in mind.
So creatine supplementation made both groups' memories worse? But only slightly worse for vegs and very much worse for meat eaters
Yeah, I wondered about that too. I wonder why.
@@tnijoo5109 Me too, maybe too much creatine has toxic effects
Meat is packed with an essential nutrient called bro science, which is rather addictive. Source: _Trust Me Bro_
As a medical professional and you can ask any Dr or MD as to get other opinions besides my “UA-cam opinion” but liver is one of the most nutrient packed foods there is, that’s not bro science. Do I eat liver? No, I hate the taste of it but it’s a lot healthier then a kale salad. It’s also a privilege to eat vegan. If you get out of your 1st world bubble, many countries don’t have the climate, soil, or means to grow fruits and vegetables so they rely on raising animals for food.
My issue with American or European vegans is you guys act like anyone can just become vegan. Most of the world outside of here and Europe would laugh at this crap. I’m privileged to live in the U.S where I have thousands of options besides meat.
@@ManUtd503 every person in the world is an individual, make choises , according to watch they imagine to be correct, the fact that its harder in some parts of the world to be vegan , does not change the power to imagine and choose.
Eg , my example , I picked up a leaflet in a health food shop in UK.
It said ... 40 million turkeys will be killed for a peaceful Christmas peace, " I imagined , choose vegan .
In 1982 , it was going against the grain, but possible.
I've met woman vegan , now but they choose to not eat animals , when they they were 7 years old , it was difficult in there familys , but possible
Same I'm sur in so called poor third world country's, people choose not to eat meat, it comes from the individual, , first second third world make no difference, to me.
Even an Inuit could go against the grain and the traditions, more to a place to be vegan , or even travel to a super market if possible.
There are many so called tradition , that an individual can reject.
Although quite easy for me , that Christmas, we eat a vegan alternative.
Even then , family and friends though it odd to not eat turkey at christmas. But so what , change is needed!
I also feel like bacteria influences what you “feel” like eating, the more you eat something the more it creates specific bacteria and the more it wants to reproduce and creates the feeling of wanting that food potentially?
I have mostly cut meat out of my diet. I started to crave beef and I asked my doctor about it. She wasn’t a vegan by any means and told me to eat it and she felt sorry for me. So I did have some and then, sorry this might be TMI, I couldn’t poop for a few days. This was really disturbing. I went back to my no meat diet and felt much better. Over the years, every time I have a slip up and eat meat, the same thing happens. This often comes along with initially feeling good but then having my energy drop significantly. It has gotten to where my body says no to meat. I just can’t seem to process it. I also have the ethical concerns and feel ashamed of myself for my weakness. But lately, I can’t seem to tolerate anything that has been processed, anything in a box or a bag. I won’t go into what happens, but I’m basically forced to eat healthy, which is fine when I’m alone but comes with a lot of explaining when I’m with other people. Someone recently brought me birthday cupcakes and had to refuse them because I didn’t want to be tempted and I knew that the next 16 hours would be a nightmare of asking myself if I can get back my health or if this is the time to visit the emergency room. My whole life I have been very healthy. It’s only recently that my body has said a hard no to oil, dairy, and animal flesh. I’m ashamed that I didn’t make this choice myself. I’d like to believe it’s an addiction so I can feel less guilty. But it doesn’t matter now, because I definitely suffer if I don’t eat the right things.
did you eat exclusively meat in your attempts to reintroduce meat consumption?
@@v.a.n.e. It was just a one off. I had no intension of reintroducing meat on a regular basis. I just had a thin steak. I can’t remember what I had with it, probably green veggies. Just recently I have gone about 6 months without any meat and I had a thin steak as one meal and I ate it by itself. My other meals that day were mixtures of beans and kale, carrots, celery and nuts. I don’t remember exactly what I ate that day. The result always seems to be the same. I don’t think I’ll have meat again for a while after that last time
@@Hanna_Hoh
how do you know the meat was to blame for the issues you mentioned in your possibly TMI assertion?
Joanna, I think what vane is trying to say is that you should continue to make yourself sick by eating meat just so that we know for sure that it's the meat that makes you sick. Because, obviously, desperately trying to prove that you could eat meat is more important than not being sick. /s
In all seriousness though, don't mind vane, it's a troll that comments on everything here to try to get people to eat animals, don't pay attention to them. Stay healthy.
@@Ararita Thank you 😂
I wouldn't worry about IGF-1 if you are eating a WFPB diet.
Except when you're eating a lot of isolated protein, whether it's from soy or peas. Isolated proteins drive up IGF1 and mTor almost as much as meat does. But yeah, when you eat it as a treat once or twice a month, it's really not a big concern. 3x a day though, like some people eat their meats, no go! Nevermind, you said WFPB, haha, no burgers in those, but i cheat sometimes on the WFPB diet ;).
I recently tried to stop eating meat, and got extremely ill. I am trying to figure out WHY. When I built a strong spiritual connection through mediation and self reflection, my brain started telling me not to eat certain foods...
No proof, but when I started eating meat after 25 years of not eating it (naively succumbing to the "paleo diet" misinformation), a strange thing occurred. My desire to consume alcohol became a problem, one that I never had before. After one year of the "experiment" and noticing a dramatic rise in blood pressure, I went back to my whole food plant based diet. Blood pressure dropped and my desire for alcohol disappeared. Maybe there is some truth about the addictive properties of animal flesh?
Chuck Culp: that is very interesting. Maybe when you give in to one kind of food or a certain addiction, then the next desire will immediately follow. I had this with coffee. As long I restricted coffee to 1 cup a day, I had my diet under control. But when i srarted to allow myself coffee unlimited, my desires moved to food and I gained weight, not being able to stick to a regular dinner size. No, I always was tempted to visit the fridge late at night. As long as I watched my coffee intake, I would only sin there occasionally and be happy with an afternoon cup and need no more of anything else. What I hate about addiction is that one clings to a lie: i need this ! well i dont. How be totally free and honest if i cling to a lie?
No one will ever have an addiction to broccoli! 🤮
Making timestamps so I can refer back to this:
2:00 talks about how people can become dependent on meat, because their bodies have down-regulated the production of certain things.
3:10 although some people experience fatigue when they first cut out meat, most people get a surge of energy when they adopt a vegan diet.
4:03 Carnitine and Choline end up creating TMAO in the gut, which is associated with an atherogenic reaction / chronic inflammation.
4:59 For people who were physically dependent on meat, it can take as long as 6 months to a year to up-regulate the production of carnosine, and those outliers can feel tired until that point, but for most people upregulation is resolved within 3-6 months.
7:23 Brain levels of creatine are not lower in people who don't eat meat, though there may be deficits in other areas. When vegetarians were given a creatine supplement they seemed to have better memories than the meat eaters. (Vegan creatine supplements exist.)
8:47 There is an other substance in meat that has been newly discovered, relating to feeling energized. It's called hypoxanthine and it's similar to the drug caffeine, because it's a central nervous system stimulant. (Stimulants may make you feel good, but they are drugs not health foods. I looked into it myself, and the first article I found said "Accumulated hypoxanthine is a potential generator of oxygen free radicals" meaning that meat has a three-fold cause for cancer, in addition to being carcinogenic, and raising IGF-1 levels, it also seems to contribute to free-radicals, which is associated with damage caused by stress, damage to DNA, cause cell mutation/cancer, and other health conditions. )
The study referenced at 6:24 had the participants go on an ovo-lacto vegetarian diet which still included egg and dairy consumption. It would have been awkward to point that out in the same video where you also stated that eggs are high in carnatine, huh Mic??
Yeah, I think a lot of it is related to people making such a big change in their diet and not eating enough. Though I would love to see more on the gut bacteria shift after the change.
I never experienced cravings or sluggishness when I gave up animal products. Kinda sounds like a nocebo effect. You want to know what the cure is for "meat addiction"? Knowledge.
Great point about the nocebo! Wish I had that in the video.
Awesome stuff I had always suspected meat had dependent like qualities to it you should put your videos on tiktok
I have a tiktok account with several videos but still need to work tiktok creation into my flow more. Thanks
I really couldn't imagine "whole plant foods" being addictive.
Then you've never tried dates
Oh, yes, they can be. In a good way.
@@heretohavefun5646 people are scared dates are high in sugar, but they don't realize that a low fat diet increases insulin sensitivity and allows you to handle a lot of sugar with no issues.
You've also not tried homemade hummus made from sprouted chick peas either!
it is not human food, that is why
If you're taking PPI's such as omeprazole, you may have an increased need for carnitine. There is some physiology research that found that omeprazole binds the same receptors as carnitine and could potentially decrease kidney resorption. So if you are taking PPIs and go vegan you may want to take additional carnitine.
"If you're taking PPI's such as omeprazole, you may have an increased need for carnitine." If you switch to a whole food vegan diet, your acid reflux will likely disappear rapidly because you are eating less acidic foods, and you can get off of your PPIs. After ten years on Nexium, my reflux disappeared almost instantly after switching to a WFPB diet.
@@karlwheatley1244 I already have been on a whole foods vegan diet. I have exocrine pancreatic insufficiency and 44 food allergies which contribute to my acid.
@@SWilkin676 Sounds awful, but my point was that what your are describing--although interesting--doesn't apply to most people. Take care.
I think the saturated fat does it. Nobody craves skinless oven baked chicken breast without tons of salt. Most of it is the meat or egg dishes with the saturated fats
Fat is addictive, so is sugar. Your body becomes addicted to both because it needs a fuel source to survive. But you should never eat a high fat high carb diet because your body can't use both of them at the same time. So you end up with diabetes
Sugar is the most addicting substance known to man. Meat is proper nutrition.
Added sugar IS addictive, but fat is addictive too, and so is salt. People can be very healthy eating some meat on some days, but eating lots of it clearly ramps up rates of disease.
Sugars and carbs are more addictive than animal products
I'm addicted to the sound nutrition in meat.
I craved beef occasionally while I was transitioning, which is odd because I had been eating plant based for 3-4 years, with only fish once in a while that last year before going fully vegan. I would get a sample of soup at Whole Foods in those tiny paper cups. At some point the cravings went away and I stopped seeing meat as food. I think it's probably psychological, but the amino acid theory is interesting. I wonder if the meat-eating microbes in your gut release some chemicals to try to get you to eat meat. Like how some parasites change the behavior of the host animal. I know that short chain fatty acids created by your good gut bacteria (the plant eaters) can cross the blood-brain barrier, so maybe the bad bacteria do as well.
hmm good question, I notice a lot of vegans still miss meat and try to make their meals look as close to meat as possible.
Very interesting, thank you Mic!
Can you talk talk about impossible beef
Veggies, fruits, fat, legumes, grains. Water, tea, milks, herbs, spices, juice.
Higher volume needed to calorie match.
Know that stuff helped me
I agree with doctor klapper In the sense of my own experience . I definitely felt a time when when I was craving meat even blood which was kind of scary. I just ignored it And ate a bunch of tofu and beans and I got over it. I had a time where I felt a little weak and craved meat. But I fought through it. I think this would be a response to a dependency on molecules that I had always had assistance creating By being fed animal flesh my whole life. This made a lot of sense to me. It would also explain why a lot of people believe That they're not able to be vegan when they actually are.
I’m wary whenever the suggestion is made that food has addictive properties comparable to opioids, cocaine, or nicotine. I have heard some people, who grew up on a high meat diet and have since become vegetarian, say that they still miss meat or crave meat. However, I have a strong feeling that’s much more to do with childhood traditions and nostalgia. I think we all have a strong connection to the foods we grew up with. That’s very different from, say heroine, which does not require any childhood or even longterm exposure to form an addiction. A mature adult could try heroine for the first time in her life, and after using a few times, might form an addiction. Whereas, you’d be hard pressed to find the equivalent with any food. Imagine someone who’s been fully plant based for thirty years, and then one day decides to try steak. A few steaks later, he’s hooked and cannot kick the habit. It would be absurd!
Everything can be addictive, some ppl are addicted to washing their hands, social media addiction (utube is also social media) is the most common in 2022. The difference is OCD and a physical addiction, ppl withdrawing from heroine will experience many physical symptoms depending on how much they used and how long, vomiting, flu like symptoms, diarrhea etc. Ppl withdrawing from nicotine or weed will have unsteady hands, anxiety, heavy breathing from increased heart rate, these are physical addictions.
@@jayz8839 very true, addiction can be very psychological, certain fantasies or fixations you have could be almost as dopimanergic as a physical substance. It's probably also why people can even be "addicted" to certain states of mind, certain thought patterns they can't escape from, I'm just guessing.
@@Apodeipnon But none of those addictions are physically addictive, meaning you physically react without your brain controlling the physical actions. Shaking is the most common, I've seen an alcoholic so shakey he couldn't hold the beer and when it was opened for him he shook it all out, but he wanted that beer...
Would you mind covering this study “Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms”which low carb keto advocates claim prove that not only does fiber not aid in defecation, having no fiber at all actually cures constipation which means we really shouldn’t be eating it at all.
I will look into it! Thanks for the idea!
@@MictheVegan I also read this article on healthline which references the article above and also presents a relatively more nuanced view of the situation. “Does Fiber Relieve or Cause Constipation? A Critical Look”.
I just recently decided to reintroduce animal foods.
I was vegetarian for 3 years and vegan for one year, I very fast became whole-food plant based, I supplemented algae oil, b12, d3 and k2, in the end even iodine.
My energy levels did not rise, my muscle mass and strength did not increase, even though I was doing a lot of sports.
My skin is pretty bad and I was constantly hungry as I was trying to lose some weight (through some fasting - so the most sustainable and healthy way possible)
Now I‘ve come across these secondary things in animal foods, creatine up to 5mg per day helps, even carnitine helps and the in-vitro study about carnitine rising TMAO does not really convince me (if you consume higher carnitine, your bacteria in your gut even produce inhibiting enzymes for the synthesis of TMAO)
I am going to see where this takes me, I‘m just not sure that meat and red meat is bad, it’s all just based on some epidemiological studies. We probably just all need to eat whole-foods, we are omnivores and depriving ourself of a big category of food if we leave out all the animal products.
-given that they are ecological, as we want to be aware of our environmental impact and these are different products from the conventional meat
You're correct. Glad you added in meat. You need about 60% calories from it to be optimal. The rest can be potatoes and fruits!
Please...please look up more unbiased studies
Hi Fiedi. You might fare well to take a break from the plant based influencers. What you've explained is actually quite common and a direct result of being on this deficient diet. This guy is terrible, he consistently dishes out content his viewers lapup (including myself for sometime) and it's all rubbish for the most part. You will have been deficientt in some essential animal based nutrients, such as Taurine, heme iron and others. You actually might recover betterment by supplementing with taurine even though you are eating meat. But keep getting most of your calory intake from meat and the associated fat. I'd be interested to hear how you're getting. I used to think meat was bad and the high saturated fat. Once I learned the correct understanding of things like cholesterol actually function, it got easier to retrain my mind from the decades of meat being demonised and everyth else. Now, I can see everything for what is, there's no doubts that I have to eat meat to be the best, healthiest version of me. Anyhow, me rabblingbon on. Good luck and it's great to hear you're finding things that work for you.
please do a video for creatine
These are good points to consider. I def feel like I had an addiction, however you want to define that term, but thinking that it was more social and psychological than physical. But the more we know the better we can do! Great vid as always.
I think one reason so many people keep eating more and more meat is because they are not satiated. We are not meat eaters by design. From head to toe we have the anatomical features of a frugivore. A whole foods plant based diet is great. A diet with lots of colorful fruits is energizing as ****. Folks lacking in fruits and veggies are looking for something that can only be found by eating the rainbow.
What about just a cleansing from all the toxic chemicals from the meat? That could make people tired and "crave" the object they think they need.
This is hearsay, but I heard, that eating animal fats can give you a testosterone spike (and subsequent low). Maybe that can contribute to feeling "addicted"?
Can you make a video about the new discovery that exposure to sunlight or specifically near infrared light produces more melatonin than the pineal gland?
I take creatine, helps me get my pump on. Vevolife is pretty awesome! I add it to my huel.
If it is addictive then we should take plants and mushrooms which are known to chemically halt addictions : iboga, psilocybin mushrooms, ayahuasca mixtures...
It works on alcohol and cigarettes for people who want to quit or embrace mindfulness
Interesting! Not something that was on my radar because I haven’t craved a single meat or animal product since giving them up a little over 3 weeks ago. Dairy was always my downfall before but just prior to this I was in China for 3 weeks and there was no dairy to be had so really, it’s been 6 weeks without dairy!
Thanks Mic, so glad that you're doing the research on our behalf.
Have you addressed collagen and veganism ?
6 months of being vegan so far. Never had low energy or brain function (but I did periodically before going vegan). I ate quite a bit of meat, eggs, milk, cheese, etc. my whole life. I nearly immediately had more energy and better brain function. I've felt great the whole time. I haven't had any meat cravings either. I have had an occasional craving for cheese though. But plant-based cheese has helped with that.
I agree with the hypothesis as a possibility though I also agree that most people aren’t eating enough calories and they’re probably not eating “carbs” like potatoes and beans which are pretty vital to having energy. Just big salads and fruits and avocado toast likely won’t be good enough if you don’t add beans and starch
Great video thank you Mike 🙏😊
I hope this is relevant, but in college biology we did study that the absorption of proteins through the intestinal wall is a known process for decades. Here is a quote:
Journal: Advanced Drug Delivery Reviews, 3(1989)215-228
The acquisition of passive immunity after birth in some mammalian species de-
pends mainly or entirely on the uptake of maternal immunoglobulins in the small
intestine by an endocytotic mechanism. Because of its great importance for the
survival of the newborn, this macromolecular transport through the small intes-
tinal epithelium has received a great deal of attention [1-4]. On weaning, how-
ever, there is an abrupt change in the small intestinal epithelium, which, at least
according to the classical concept of nutrient assimilation, results in the cessation
of the absorption of intact macromolecules. However, there is now ample evi-
dence to show that macromolecules, including food proteins, can cross the intes-
tinal epithelium and get into the systemic circulation, albeit not in nutritionally
significant amounts.
I went vegan about a month ago. (Male, 40's)
I've dropped a lot of weight and I feel 1000% better.
Yeah, I did too, at first.
You lost weight and feel better? Shocker!
We have been eating meat for over 2 million years. Do with that what you will.
It's crazy the way people are addicted to oxygen and water also.
Yeah, other people are nothing but "bags of meat!"
I have to say, though: I had absolutely no cravings, pangs, or withdrawal from giving up meat; I found dairy much harder.
Up there with oxygen and water addiction.
How can you become addicted to something your body requires to function optimally. Honestly, the crap you all adore absorbing from people like this guy. Madness.
Great info, thank you for that citation list!
We are dependent on the plethora of bioavailable nutrients found in meat that you don't get from a vegan diet ...that's all ... just here to shake things up a bit :)
"We are dependent on the plethora of bioavailable nutrients found in meat that you don't get from a vegan diet" If that was true, then vegans would have more micronutrient deficiencies than do people who eat meat, but they don't on average, and in some studies, they have fewer deficiencies.
I'm addicted to drinking water guys, I can't stop :( Any advice? Should I just cold turkey switch to beer?
The only time i ever crave meat is if I'm extremely hungry, like if I somehow don't eat anything all day. I feel like that's psychological tho, we're inundated l with advertising from fast food and stuff like that that portray meat as the yummiest substance on the planet. I also just crave junk food when I'm really hungry, it's not really something that's particular to meat.
Hypoxanthine is definitely fascinating tho, hadn't heard of this before
Do the antibiotics that the majority of livestock are pumped full of end up in the "meat" which ends up causing damage to our gut microbiome?
I know for sure the glyphosate that's in the GMO feed these animals get to eat does damage our gut microbiome.
lol I feel this. And also when I do weed it's almost irresistible.
I don't keep my diet vegan all the time though, even best case scenario I eat it like once every two months or so.
Agreed on it being an acquired dependency, since there are children raised vegan & they don't get the urge
I feel sick eating meat like im about to have heart failure: i also dont eat any processed food but smoke
Mic did you ever do any videos about iodine deficiency? It seems like it's more difficult to supplement than the more famous vitamin B12 deficiency?
Really ? How so ? I just sprinkle a bit of kelp on my dinner once in a while.
Asians who regularly have seaweed soup: Huh?
We have a daily habit that is repeated for 20, 30, 40 years. We stop it and then think it is strange that we miss it
and crave it???. Yikes. I believe Dr. Klaper is on to something that makes a lot of sense, although it may not be 100% accurate.
Its' not only a physical, but also a societal habitual and emotional habit. Looking at it in a linear way always
missies a lot of factors, but 'science' tends to do that every time. In addition, the study would be better off looking
at the levels of creatine after 1 or 2 years, not simply after a few months!!. It also can take a while for omnivores, who
become 100% vegan, to show lowered B12 levels. Why expect B12 levels to lower after just a few months after YEARS of eating
animals?. Just my 2 cents as a 20+ year vegan......
I'm in my master program, I might study this, thanks for a thesis idea 🥰......also I was the 1000th like 👍
Dr. Klaper's theory makes sense. Sorta like male bodybuilders getting testicular atrophy when they use anabolic steroids. "Use it or lose it" in action.
I have to take a low dose of creatine every day because of my past meat eating. My body apparently no longer makes the right amount because it did not need to when I ate meet.
How do you know that? And have you tried tapering down to nothing over a long period?
@@reaperkollyns6495 well I am taking it because my homocysteine levels are too high and that is part of the cycle to lower it. That being said I just got tested again and it is not being affected by it. So I am either not doing any good or I need to come at it from another angle. Unfortunately most of the things suggested on line are like eat more dairy and meat and I am like fuck that. Lol
It's not the dependency it's the Comedown. With the body inconvenience and also the mental confusion so they get desperate just like addicts and stuff more blood in their mouth.
There are people so weak that they can't even hear facts or listen to a conversation that they started.... but knowledge is power so that will help 3% of the people become aware and make the switch!
Your skits are GOLD! BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Idk about ADDICTION but sugar, cheese, fast food, crispy fried snacks, and cured pork products
I ate 3 KrispyKreme glazed last njght 😮
People need to consume meat, especially raw meat to feel the euphoric embrace of the great spirit.
7 years ago Greger md said, leucine methionine restriction activate autophagy just like Calorie restriction or fasting. Could you make video about it, thanks. Any update?
Hey Mic, can you please make it more clear for me. Should I add creatine to my supplements? I have fibromyalgia and suffer from brain fog/fatigue, I'm wondering if creatine would help me or if I need to wait for my body to catch up?
just eat meat
Whether it is a legit pathological addiction or not, I have witnessed people being utterly obsessed with meat on an extreme level. My best friend's husband literally says he'd much rather give up sex than meat...
I have no problem giving up sex.
Thank you for all of these studies they are so important
Hypoxanthine. Wow. When that mechanism is proven some day, I sure hope you get some credit for helping connect the dots with it! 🙂
Thanks as always for your incredibly informative, encouraging videos! 🌞
Absolutely I think animal products have associated addictions. I witness them in others, and looking back, I can recognize them in myself in the past. But glad to know the info on the particular physiological deficiencies that have been ruled out. I suspect that it comes down to the effect of mental habits mixed with emotional associations with certain foods. Primarily psychological addiction, though perhaps intensified by some physiological effects that aren't yet ruled out.
Happy Mother Earth Day peeps! You to Mic!☮️❤️
Mic the vegan can you make video about Night Shades are they bad for you or not
He won't ever say bad things about plant foods.
Sound like the ingredients listed in protein shakes powders.
I don't miss meat at all, but I do miss the flexibility of dining out with friends. Pretty sure I'm the only senior vegan in this Texas town. And let me tell ya, it gets... lonely. 🌱
Lonely, I'm sure, but I'm glad you stick with it! I live in cattle country in AZ so I can relate. But I stick with it, too.
@@iamdebmiller hi Deb! Thx for your encouragement, and same back to you! It will be 5 years this fall since I went WFPB, and I'm never looking back It's really a crazy world where eating healthy, doing the right thing by the planet and other sentient beings, sets us apart from society in general, friends and family in particular. 😊
@@laurieparis2203 I understand. I've experienced what you wrote, but it's been 9 years for me, and I'm never looking back either. I'm a senior too, 62 now. But I'm healthier and feel better now than I did in my 40s due to eating this way. I feel better in my conscience, too.
@@iamdebmiller That's wonderful! It's a good feeling when your actions align with your beliefs. Especially when they lead to health benefits. Aging is not for sissies! 🌱
So, you never go out to eat with your friends? I've never yet been to a restaurant where something wasn't modifiable to be vegan. Almost every restaurant carries either chips, potatoes or pasta.
I'm pretty sure food as drugs is the shortest way to conceptualize why people eat what they eat and why they get what they get xd
Also opioid-like molecules are found in animal cheeses maybe meats similar!?
Every food has an opiod effect, even fruits, fructose makes you crave more fructose. Starchy carbs are a sedative because of the insulin and help you fall asleep, so you wanna keep eating more carbs to feel more tired, meat is a stimulant because of all the amino acids.
Please could you do a video on coffee?
I think when transitioning to a vegan diet, some people can feel tired because they might initially not be efficient at digesting the new foods. It can take a while to build up the gut health that would allow you not to feel sluggish and bloated.
I've been vegan for less than a year and I already figured out energy
Eat enough calories, get good sleep, eat as many whole food carbs as you can without getting too little protein or fat
What I haven't yet is sometimes my brain has many bad days still
Make sure you get your iodine, d-vit and maybe even algae omega 3s. Obviously B12, too. After going vegan my brain worked as well, or even better than before. Did my university degree and started to read philsophy more serously. Also have high energy.
My diet is based around grains (pasta, rice, bread) + legumes (tofu, soy mince, beans lentils) + fresh veggies + seeds/nuts, topped with wonderful spices, sauses, miso etc.
That's how I structure most of my meals. Or I just have some vegan yoghurt, oatmeal or whatever kind og snack. This seems to work wonderfully for me, and has for many years :)
Sort of ironic that the meat males feel they HAVE to eat will greatly affect their own m. Easter is here, new beginning, no more killing, or using animals.Take care all.