@@jns08dTimmy said it himself he’s good enough to compete against them That’s why it’s loud because these pro players had the skills to compete against them. That’s why you can’t compare a ranked player who gets shit on my controller vs a pro player they are in two different realms
Controller is broken for the average player too. The AA works through the flinch, that applies to all people using a controller not just the top 1% of players and that's the real issue.
true i can one clip players close range only after a few hours of trying controler on pc the only thing i find difficult is tracking long range but that will come with time
@@garrymiller3171this is true. But when skill is elevated to the highest level and is even more or less.. AA tends to be a much larger advantage for that end of the scale. That's why inputs "should" be split for competition sake.
Kinda sad to see so many talented mnk players consider making this change simply because of aim assist. Only thing id like to add is that I dont think the disparity is much better when you talk about the rest of the apex community. If you aren’t spending time refining your skills on mnk by spending hours on the game, in the range or on aim trainers you’re gonna have a hard time.
The first fully fledged fps games were not created to be played using anything other than PC/MnK. The stuff that came before that on the arcades was not really fps games - they don't qualify in a number of fundamental parameters. The controller is an import from the aforementioned arcades and it's an input that works perfectly well for many other game types like sports games, driving games, fighting games (eg. Streetfighter) etc. But to make it function for fps games they have to give you cheats otherwise of course it's impossible to play. And frankly, even if you don't know any of the history, that fact alone (the need for the AA) tells you all you need to know, i.e. fps games are not natively designed to be played on the controller. Thus it's pretty obvious that the only reason we are having crossplay showed down our throats by game developers is money. Plain and simple. They make a lot more money if they force the high skill MnK player base to play against controller noob trash. There's a lot more of the noobs and they will not pay Respawn for their silly skins and such unless they are entertained by the MnK players. So they hang them on our backs and make a bundle on us. And for all the low skilled controller degenerates who will undoubtedly jump on my comment using a number of BS arguments (because I guess it hits way too close to home;), please noobs tell me one thing: why should I be forced to play with you???? To put it another way, even if the BS about long waits (or whatever other nonsense they can come up with) was actually true, I (and every other MnK player I have ever known) will take that any day, all day vs playing against aimbot. So why are we not allowed to have a toggle in game letting us chose to cue in MnK only lobbies????
I'm a controller player, have been playing on console my whole life, swapped to PC 2 years ago as far as my background goes. As a viewer in any esport, controller is the most boring and least expressive showing of skill to watch especially in Apex. I used to watch CoD League but that shit was so boring and when Apex finally came out, it was a breath of fresh air from a viewer standpoint when it was still full mnk teams. You can literally name all the mnk players in PL on both hands cause no new MNK talent is popping up due to how oppressive roller is. Controller should've never been allowed in Apex comp, period.
I not too long ago found out that pros use rollers with paddles and it blew my mind. I’m a console player and play on classic. I’ve adjusted my settings so I can play with comfort but don’t use paddles. Yes, I agree now that AA is broken and to make things fair, for pro gaming should be limited. Linear with a controller with paddles is super op. It’s a lot harder using no paddles on classic and can now see the advantage most players have on me.
There should be input based matchmaking which can be toggled on or off, the fact that majority of the games at this current time don't have it is a weird.
First major problem with splitting it is, already in ranked theyre having trouble with queue times, so it would have to still be crossplay in ranked, even if it wasnt necessary for pubs. And it's just that much more of a problem in tourneys too. Some would be crossplay, some would have to be mnk/roller only. We all know we don't want twice the queue times.
I think that the only problem is 4-3 Linear is has stronger aim assist than ALCs. If they can lower 4-3 Linear’s Aim assist, and keep ALCs the same, that’ll work out better
Brother the aim assist value is the same linear is a response curve. ALC is better because you can edit your response curve to your liking along with your sensitivity lol.
one of the biggest complaints i've always had is just the clutter in this game and how hard it is to aim on mnk with clutter, iron sights, aim punch etc.
That’d kill one input immediately meaning losing a lot of our best pro players cause a lot of them can’t learn a different input and be equally as good as before, they’d move on to different games, the quality of the remaining players would drastically drop, allowing worse players to participate in ALGS, viewership would drop and at the end it’d kill the game, leaving room a new game to takeover that has both inputs for their pro players mixed.
If you split the ALGS in 2 to do this it would be ridiculous. People would still want to know who the “best” team is between the MnK and Controller ALGS circuits. Leading to mixed lobbies anyway when they play a “finals” between the 2 circuits.
algs will never do that, they even have a controller sponsor, they are making money off of controllers, respawn said they would nerf controllers years ago and never touched it
I would play apex SO MUCH more if my queue times increased by 4 times the length, but i ALWAYS played against MnK and i NEVER played against controller players again. but if i get on the game right now. within 5 games ill die to a controller player melee range and they won't miss a single shot which just ruins the whole experience.
I think it all balances out to be honest. I main both inputs and they both have their advantages and disadvantages. Like AA is way stronger in close range gunfights, MnK is better for long range, AA is better with SMG's, MnK is better at looting and movement, etc...
I see two options either Respawn gives us option to split inputs. Or they implement gyroaiming on PC, remove AA from PC altogether and buff roller movement. But in reality they will do nothing bc they only care about the money and casuals, which is sad.
I mean honestly it doesn't really mean anything for the casual player base. It's moreso a problem for the highest level players and talent. On a competitive standpoint
So it's sad they want the majority of the player base to enjoy the game. They will never advocate for the 1% when it comes to aim assist. The amount of money respawn would lose from that would be astromonical.
While I agree with Timmy on a lot of this, he is 100% wrong on casual players. As someone with 8k hours over the years, my movement means nothing against aim assist. I consistently lose to level 50 players, even with a wall jump tap strafe. Let alone being caught in the open against a team of controller players. With casual gameplay, there is typically ONE player on MnK outside of me in the lobby. Everyone says get good, but doing insane movement no longer is viable with the aim assist meta. With this said, I love Apex and will never leave, but addressing it how Timmy did is really invalid in my opinion as a casual player. My fix, give us Trios, Duos, Solos and ranked options without aim assist. Those lobbies would be fun to play and even more fun to watch, nothing but movement and skill, just my opinion.
I agree, the thing is he is good enough to overcome the aim assist up to on non pro players. I have 1.5k hours on apex on mnk, and literally yesterday I tried controller for the first time on it, I haven't played controller regularly in many years, and I was shocked. I literally tied my kill record for this season in solo's the first day. I didn't even expect to be competitive with it and I ended up doing that, I couldn't believe it, it has changed how I look at the game. Aim assist is so incredibly overpowered, more than I thought, and to be a pro mnk player in this game is that much more impressive to me because they are at such a bigger disadvantage than I realized.
Agreed, I see this take a lot but what many of these high level mnk players dont understand is the disparity is even worse for the casual community. Itll take an mnk player far more hours of gameplay/aim training just to compete with an average roller player who doesnt even main apex.
I guess the issue they have is if they split how much it will impact the game, some weapons will be more viable on the controller and not on mnk (and visversa) and then the patches will need to be more split maybe ... and eventually, the request of players will be depending if you are on mnk or controler lobbies.
I think it would be awesome to have two tournaments a year where its swapping between roller tournaments and MnK tournaments. It would be a lot harder to do it seeing as they would probably want to double ALGS but think it would be better to have a whole seperate series for whatever input ALGS isn't on.
this is why cross play was not really a thing until newer games. the few fps games i remember that first tried crossplay were unreal tournament '99 and Quake 3 both on dreamcast and PC in the early 2000's. controller players just got annihilated cause aim assist wasnt a thing. Crossplay is just a failed idea that needs to go away again for fps games.
@@miclwastaken ye his point is bullshit like why give players a more limited sense so they cant aim as nicely lol just nerf aimassist so it only works to hel correct inputs but not fight completely wrong inputs
Unfortunately, splitting the player base is a risk EA will never take. And, especially with the decline in interest of Apex, it's probably hard for a company to justify taking such a risk too. I do feel for a lot of Mnk players coz it must be so annoying dying to aim assist.
Not necessarily. Claw or paddles is definitely helps you improve as you don’t have to leave the analogs to press other buttons but I’m sure you could keep up playing default if that was most comfortable to you.
Playing claw on controller in the long run is very detrimental to your hand and wrist health, I have to do hand stetches everyday cause of how fatigued my hands are now after playing claw. Rollers with paddles or extra buttons on the back are infinitely better to learn which is what I've been doing myself recently.
I been on roller fully time for 3 days and its busted it deff needs a nerf but they wont do it shits annoying cuz i think mnk is more fun but when i play mnk i feel lik i have to try my dick off every game
Crazy thing is, CODs aim assist is like 5x better & mnk players don’t say a word. It’d be stupid to say “controller is broken”, when playing games that were based on controller input to begin with. So who’s fault is it when you chose to play mnk on a controller game & then complain about controllers? It seems so redundant, & if you’re good enough to play mnk then great, but don’t make aim assist out to be like it Can make anyone competitive
This isn't a hot take. When i grew up on gears of war 1, 2 and 3. There was no fucking aim assist. I hit my headshots on the sticks NO AIM ASSIST. So seeing legit .4 aimbot being not only legal but encouraged by dev's is just fucking stupid in my opinion. Sure i get you want certain players to feel better then they really are so they play more. But the players with brains who understand they just died to legal aim bot don't wanna keep playing the game unless your itztimmy because its my income, i get fame, i get money, i can compete in tournaments etc. Me as a casual on MnK i just simply won't sign into the game anymore. i have 2k + hours and don't get me wrong its a great game. But you die only so many times to a guy who can't hit a single shot over 50 meters, but doesn't miss a single fucking shot within 50 meters so many times before you just don't care about the game anymore. Apex to me used to be the greatest shooter because "if your good enough you'll just win". Was when i started. Now it just feels like if you didn't buy a chronus, xen, controller, or cheat. you really are not even playing the game your just getting bullied.
Ofc it matters in the actual game as well lmao game is dying because of it. the game isn't only about pro scene. It should be same input matches in normal ranked as well. I'd go as far as giving us the option to queue for same input in all modes.
looking for all the roller bots in the comments. where ya at? cmon, call timmy bad cause he said roller is better lmao he has his whole arm to aim too!
Controller players still in denial and say its skill lmao ... as daddy shrpud god of aim said .... "aim assist is cheating" A rated R version of aimbot ....
I think the easiest point to understand from all of this is: "Imperialhal the player who has won the most tournaments in ALGS has switched to controller because he says it's fucking broken, wouldn't you take the best player in the world's word on it?" Arguing with the logic of someone who has the experience and has won it all is blatantly a telltale sign of you don't know what you're talking about. Something no one points out that can also be done to balance mnk and controller is adding aim assist to mnk, you can add a 10%-20% value of aim assist and keep controller at 40% it would be a good test to see how a slightly assisted mnk player can now compete with a full throttled aim assist player
wait let me understand this correctly, aim assist is aimbot, effectively, and so therefore give everybody aimbot would that not defeat the premise of the original argument that it takes no skill using aimbot, because I've played both mnk and roller, if you give me 10-20% aim assist not only will roller with 80% aim assist not compete with me, I would be only defeated by actual aim bots. I can't believe you unironically think giving people a xim level experience is what will fix rollers, instead of just uninstalling a controller game for a game where aim assist doesn't exist, like literally there's dozens of pc games you I guess just are bronze at where mnk aim is the only thing that matters and that's where the best mnk players in the world are, not on apex lmao
Let me clarify so you can understand it correctly; if you crank aim assist up to 100% it becomes aim bot, truly not a hard concept to grasp. Also since your last few brain cells can't comprehend that apex was originally launched to target the console audience they will never remove controller or aim assist. So if you can understand that which truthfully it's not a hard concept, there's no such thing as "balancing" controller because having aim assist at all is broken its a coded script doing partial of the aiming/tracking for you. So maybe if you can understand both the fact that the large demographic for apex is controller players and that there's no such thing as "balancing" controller then you can understand why an argument to give mouse and keyboard 10-20% aim assist can be made and since there's no fixing rollers the only option left is to even the playing field. The top players of ALGS are all controllers there's no MnK for a good reason. Also to note your last comment you're far from even being the top 10 player in the world my guy even if you had 10-20% aim assist on mouse/keyboard you're not beating the majority of pros/high level players especially if you were to give them 80% aim assist. That was by far one of the stupidest comments I've ever read, how braindead are you and how big is your ego to think you're gonna start competing in ALGS just bc they gave you 10% aim assist on mouse and key 😂 the majority of pros, highest ranked players will stomp you over and over even if you had 10% aim assist on mouse and key. It's not going to take players like timmy or hal 80% aimassist to stomp you just because you have 10% aim assist on a mouse. Absolutely 9000 IQ comment you've made legend.
@@billybob-fw3vr can’t bro cuz it’s flat out not true. It’s the same for mnk and roller. The values are the same. I run my shit on performance mode. I’m not one of those wierd 244 computer fps players like the game was made to run on that. But complain about things being overpowered.
That means we can all blame Nicewigg for it, since he was one of the first Pro rollers players. same with CLG blame them too. leave snipedown alone, he's one of the goats
@@lenk1432 your the dork who wants the advantage of an arm over a thumb. So you’re really just crying cus you don’t have the advantage you normally have. Pathetic if you ask me
wouldn't splitting controller and mnk in competitive destroy ~90% of teams right now? Like how many teams are triple mnk and how many are triple controller? not the majority thats for sure. as for the majority, how would splitting them up completely work? how many players are under different length contracts right now? how many teams are built under the synergy of an mnk being an igl and the controllers fraggers and anchors, and the opposite? how many teams have 2 or more players that have years of synergy which is what makes them good in the first place and would be split apart if they're not both on the same input? it's not as simple as "just split them by input all the games do it"
I really do wonder what the future of controllers looks like. I like the idea of a delay being added to aim assist, like 100ms(still faster than average human reaction), so that it mimics the reaction time needed for an MNK player to react to direction changes rather than aim assist acting in 0ms like it currently does. Though I could see it going the other way with how widely it seemed controller players adopted cfgs and cronus devices I could see it just becoming some absolute brainrot controller peripheral warfare - afterall there's a lot of money to be made in selling that junk.
There's no "fix" to aim assist though 'cause it's artificial. It's not based on skill. Sure, controllers are a worse input for FPS so they need some assistance to get the control fine enough to compete with M&K, but then why are they using a controller to play FPS? Stupidity shouldn't be subsidised. Where's my aim assist with the Guitar Hero II controller? What about my Dreamcast fishing rod? No aim assist on my Logitech racing wheel?
Trust us. Controller players also don’t want to play against MNK players. We think you have too many advantages, and you think we have the advantage. Input based matchmaking should be the norm to shut both sides up.
PC roller players don't care about fighting mnk players, they generally can't outaim us and the slight advantages you get on mnk don't outweigh free 1 clips. I say this as a PC roller player.
I like Timmy as a person, but there is zero logic here. I get it's his "perspective", but he didn't make a logical argument. You have the choice to switch to controller if you feel it's not fair. Nobody is forcing you to play mouse and key. The only group of people a mouse and key only league would benefit is mouse and key players. Everyone else including the fans lose. So again, if you are playing mouse and key by choice, there is no point in separating the leagues. You have the option to switch if you want to.
yeah but who wants to watch 4-3 linear turrets who are all carbon copies of each other? Big difference. Without a cam, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between players like Gild, Koy, Verhulst, Genburten. Yet on MNK you would be able to tell the difference between players like Sweet, zer0, Reps, etc because the skill expression is there. Controller does not have that.
MnK made this game, like it or not. But hey "jUsT gEt BeTtEr BrO" according to every other roller bot. It has always been said both inputs should be split up, is literally a no brainer.
Timmy's so close, but he's lost sight of what it's like to be a noob. Aim assist is broken at pro levels, but the average controller player is also better (by the numbers) than the average M&K player. It's two different distributions, one shifted higher than the other. Think about it in terms of men and women and body strength. Men are on average stronger than women, this is biological fact. This means at the top end ("pro level"), there are no women. It's the world's strongest MAN competition, because women literally cannot compete. This does NOT mean ALL men are stronger than ALL women. But it does mean that if a man and a woman are equally matched in terms of strength, it's highly likely that the man didn't have to work as hard to train to get to that point. Aim assist makes worse players better. If I'm evenly matched in a fight with someone on the sticks, I have better game sense, movement, cover usage, exploitation of advantage, comms (if applicable), and I'm more handsome, but they have an artificial buffer to their mechanics. They haven't had to spend as long getting better at their aim as I have, which means the rest of their skills are way worse, because they've had less practice. This doesn't mean I can't beat controller players, that's not the issue. The issue is when I fight a controller player, I'm not fighting an interesting battle. They can do something completely stupid and aim assist their way out of it.
if timmy provided the controller and a clean setup for controller players to try and 1v1 him i bet he would roast them, aim assist scripts make controller supe op
so, ideally, each region has 2 algs divisions, based on input? side note: aim assist literally can't track tap strafing, unless the enemy is so far away that tap strafing would be useless anyways
Proceeds to say he wants to split the player base off of input. And then proceeds to say he can "compete" with controller players. And then complains about how we cant loot boxes if he cant beat a controller player... bros all over the place. Big L Timmy.
timmy complains about it but Reject won the last lan. All of them are mnk. They had a 1 v 1 tournament and a Mnk player won. They cry about Aim Assist all the time. They can be all mnk and they would find something to complain about. man up and stop crying. 🤷🏻♂️
@@Kino-yy8ou That's the thing, the game isn't. Overdramatizing aim assist in a way where you're all telling yourselves it's "aimbot" is ignorant and stupid.
@@timothywaddell8566 Get in any game mode with a kill cam. You can actively see the game tracking for people. Roller players aren't trying to aim, they just swipe till slow down kicks in and then just use the left stick to get the free kill. Very few roller players are actually aiming
I agree roller is the better input but im just really sick of mnk people exaggerating what aim assist does. Aim assist will just track someone tap strafing? No it wont. It might slightly pull towards them but thats about it. If aa was as strong as mnk players describe it, every player would be as good as genburten. If you think the roller is easy, go try it and win algs. Hey Hal did it so everyone should be able to do it right?
2.5k hour mnk player here…No one is disputing that their is a skill gap on roller. The issue is that it takes many hours on mnk to even come close to what a roller player is able to do in a fraction of the time bc of aim assist. Even then no matter how many hours you put on the game perfecting your tracking etc most of the time it wont matter because you will get aim assist beamed through visual clutter or get effortlessly one clipped by someone who plays apex only when they’re buddies are online. Ive hopped on roller for the first time in close to a decade and was immediately able to do things/ hit shots I probably wouldnt on my native input. Barely able to remember what buttons to hit, movement clunky as hell….but still one clipping people in the same lobbies. There is something seriously wrong with that.
No one is saying AA is aiming for you but you're coping if you think its not winning you fights vs MnK players. This sarcastic argument that switching to controller should win me ALGS is literally what I would expect to hear from a 9 year old.
@@nojithan "No one is saying AA is aiming for you" Yes they are. I'm constantly hearing people say it's literal aimbot and the other day Deigo was saying that AA completely eliminates recoil from all guns..."you're coping if you think it's not winning you fights vs MnK players" - I can't find where I said that at all...maybe you're responding to the wrong post.
Comparing Region splitting to Input splitting for comp is crazy lol I understand where you're coming from but TRIPLE MNK JUST WON PLAYOFFS.... Please stop the game is fine.
Controller is nauseating to watch and boring af to play. Stop hyping up an input so dogshit that it needs in game help. The game is literally gifting them most of their kills
Controller is not more fun to watch LOL. Why would I want to watch someone with soft aim bot? Up close on controller you don’t even have to try, controller does all the work for me
@@billybob-fw3vr i just disagree. Tbh is live the current way things are. Apex is a console game mostly and should cater toward controller players. Most people play on controller so if mnk is better its not fair to the majority of players
controller isnt fun to watch, the aim assist is doing all the work and the player just holds the stick down to counter recoil, then after the fight they stand still for a minute to loot. sometimes they dont even ads cuz aim assist will just do the work for them, cope more
@@lenk1432 is hal not fun to watch? Is verhulst not fun to watch? The only people that are upset are entitled mnk players that just want to crush controller players
They could just add aim assist to mouse...Halo literally did it like a year ago and it works...But also, they could easily just nerf aim assist in like 3 dozen different ways...But they just don't care..
The movement argument is ridiculous. You’re not tap strafing every situation, it rarely helps in fights and is really an escape mechanic, but aim assist is AWAYS turned on in every situation 100% of the time every bullet you fire.
@@duanelondon6152 yeah, but you could never tell, if an enemy moves infront of your mouse, your player doesnt track them for you, if a player moves infront of a controller the whole screen tracks them
@@lenk1432 so that’s the small difference that’s what got mnk players butthurt about? Cuz I’d rather my controller not to do that tbh. It causes issues for us on that front to. Cuz that makes it so anytime you’re fighting more than one player annoying. I’ll beam one and the other walks right in the middle then game over
How is that a hot take. It's just the plain truth. Aim Assist via no Aim Assist should never be mixed in a competitive environment!
It is because common sense is, unironically, not that common.
Yup, competition should always be on a level playing field, period
@@jns08d nothing about a br is ever a level playing field… it’s all rng lmfao, if you want a level playing field go play csgo…
@@Rainmaker_ES look at my comment above “common sense isn’t so common” fuckin dumb ass lmfao
@@jns08dTimmy said it himself he’s good enough to compete against them That’s why it’s loud because these pro players had the skills to compete against them. That’s why you can’t compare a ranked player who gets shit on my controller vs a pro player they are in two different realms
Shroud said the same thing like a year ago
Shroud been saying this for many years lol
He’s right
When mnk players started switching to controller, it's obviously broken. What a ridiculous state of the game.
Controller is broken for the average player too. The AA works through the flinch, that applies to all people using a controller not just the top 1% of players and that's the real issue.
true i can one clip players close range only after a few hours of trying controler on pc the only thing i find difficult is tracking long range but that will come with time
The average player sucks even with aim assist
@@garrymiller3171this is true. But when skill is elevated to the highest level and is even more or less.. AA tends to be a much larger advantage for that end of the scale.
That's why inputs "should" be split for competition sake.
@@garrymiller3171true it took me a year to even play ranked without getting pooped on
And I use 4.3 lin
Kinda sad to see so many talented mnk players consider making this change simply because of aim assist. Only thing id like to add is that I dont think the disparity is much better when you talk about the rest of the apex community. If you aren’t spending time refining your skills on mnk by spending hours on the game, in the range or on aim trainers you’re gonna have a hard time.
The first fully fledged fps games were not created to be played using anything other than PC/MnK. The stuff that came before that on the arcades was not really fps games - they don't qualify in a number of fundamental parameters.
The controller is an import from the aforementioned arcades and it's an input that works perfectly well for many other game types like sports games, driving games, fighting games (eg. Streetfighter) etc. But to make it function for fps games they have to give you cheats otherwise of course it's impossible to play. And frankly, even if you don't know any of the history, that fact alone (the need for the AA) tells you all you need to know, i.e. fps games are not natively designed to be played on the controller.
Thus it's pretty obvious that the only reason we are having crossplay showed down our throats by game developers is money. Plain and simple. They make a lot more money if they force the high skill MnK player base to play against controller noob trash. There's a lot more of the noobs and they will not pay Respawn for their silly skins and such unless they are entertained by the MnK players. So they hang them on our backs and make a bundle on us.
And for all the low skilled controller degenerates who will undoubtedly jump on my comment using a number of BS arguments (because I guess it hits way too close to home;), please noobs tell me one thing: why should I be forced to play with you????
To put it another way, even if the BS about long waits (or whatever other nonsense they can come up with) was actually true, I (and every other MnK player I have ever known) will take that any day, all day vs playing against aimbot. So why are we not allowed to have a toggle in game letting us chose to cue in MnK only lobbies????
W take from timmy, the 2 inputs were never supposed to be competitively balanced with each other
Yh i don't think competitive roller gameplay would be big too the input has in a way forced its way in competitive apex
@@steezyhaha1163 100% agree, COD has comp with controllers and its viewership numbers are laughable, no one watches it
I'm a controller player, have been playing on console my whole life, swapped to PC 2 years ago as far as my background goes.
As a viewer in any esport, controller is the most boring and least expressive showing of skill to watch especially in Apex.
I used to watch CoD League but that shit was so boring and when Apex finally came out, it was a breath of fresh air from a viewer standpoint when it was still full mnk teams. You can literally name all the mnk players in PL on both hands cause no new MNK talent is popping up due to how oppressive roller is.
Controller should've never been allowed in Apex comp, period.
100% well said 👏
I not too long ago found out that pros use rollers with paddles and it blew my mind. I’m a console player and play on classic. I’ve adjusted my settings so I can play with comfort but don’t use paddles. Yes, I agree now that AA is broken and to make things fair, for pro gaming should be limited. Linear with a controller with paddles is super op. It’s a lot harder using no paddles on classic and can now see the advantage most players have on me.
There should be input based matchmaking which can be toggled on or off, the fact that majority of the games at this current time don't have it is a weird.
Played lots of solos this season and I’m dying a lot to so many bad players with soft aimbot on controller
See it all the time in the kill cams
First major problem with splitting it is, already in ranked theyre having trouble with queue times, so it would have to still be crossplay in ranked, even if it wasnt necessary for pubs. And it's just that much more of a problem in tourneys too. Some would be crossplay, some would have to be mnk/roller only. We all know we don't want twice the queue times.
Those who play with a Gyroscope, they can MOVE WHEN THEY ARE MESSING AROUND
I think that the only problem is 4-3 Linear is has stronger aim assist than ALCs. If they can lower 4-3 Linear’s Aim assist, and keep ALCs the same, that’ll work out better
Brother the aim assist value is the same linear is a response curve. ALC is better because you can edit your response curve to your liking along with your sensitivity lol.
one of the biggest complaints i've always had is just the clutter in this game and how hard it is to aim on mnk with clutter, iron sights, aim punch etc.
aim punch= flinch. it's always been called flinch, please stop saying aim punch
@@theBROWNbanditP thank you, you’ve revolutionized the game with this simple change, my eyes are open now
So true aim punch sucks
wow it's almost like we've been saying the same things since 2019, no change
That’d kill one input immediately meaning losing a lot of our best pro players cause a lot of them can’t learn a different input and be equally as good as before, they’d move on to different games, the quality of the remaining players would drastically drop, allowing worse players to participate in ALGS, viewership would drop and at the end it’d kill the game, leaving room a new game to takeover that has both inputs for their pro players mixed.
I'm a controller player and this is the best and most fair take I've ever heard
If you split the ALGS in 2 to do this it would be ridiculous. People would still want to know who the “best” team is between the MnK and Controller ALGS circuits. Leading to mixed lobbies anyway when they play a “finals” between the 2 circuits.
It's not a hot take, AA should not been in comp.
So no controllers or controllers but no aa
@@revenant5513 huh? 🤔
@@Il_Cowboy I’m asking if you were saying to take out as completely or just the controller players
@@revenant5513 I think roller shoud not be in comp and on PC they shoud only play vs other roller players and consolle (so different lobbys)
Will he fix the title of this video??
algs will never do that, they even have a controller sponsor, they are making money off of controllers, respawn said they would nerf controllers years ago and never touched it
I wish I could queue in mnk only lobbies, even if it took longer to queue.
Ikr ...
I would play apex SO MUCH more if my queue times increased by 4 times the length, but i ALWAYS played against MnK and i NEVER played against controller players again. but if i get on the game right now. within 5 games ill die to a controller player melee range and they won't miss a single shot which just ruins the whole experience.
mnk only lobbies when
apex should just have input based matchmaking, controller is literally an acessibility option
Timmy made solid points. Controllers should not be allowed in competition
That's why I switched to Xdefiant
I think it all balances out to be honest. I main both inputs and they both have their advantages and disadvantages. Like AA is way stronger in close range gunfights, MnK is better for long range, AA is better with SMG's, MnK is better at looting and movement, etc...
Clearly we're not playing the same game because these roller players had no disadvantages at long range lol
yeah mnk has an advantage for 5 minutes then the ring closes and you have to cqc
I see two options either Respawn gives us option to split inputs. Or they implement gyroaiming on PC, remove AA from PC altogether and buff roller movement. But in reality they will do nothing bc they only care about the money and casuals, which is sad.
I mean honestly it doesn't really mean anything for the casual player base. It's moreso a problem for the highest level players and talent. On a competitive standpoint
So it's sad they want the majority of the player base to enjoy the game. They will never advocate for the 1% when it comes to aim assist. The amount of money respawn would lose from that would be astromonical.
Classic has more AA than linear 😂😭 it's just WAAAY less responsive. Thats literally why we switch to linear, we trade AA for responsiveness
While I agree with Timmy on a lot of this, he is 100% wrong on casual players. As someone with 8k hours over the years, my movement means nothing against aim assist. I consistently lose to level 50 players, even with a wall jump tap strafe. Let alone being caught in the open against a team of controller players. With casual gameplay, there is typically ONE player on MnK outside of me in the lobby. Everyone says get good, but doing insane movement no longer is viable with the aim assist meta. With this said, I love Apex and will never leave, but addressing it how Timmy did is really invalid in my opinion as a casual player. My fix, give us Trios, Duos, Solos and ranked options without aim assist. Those lobbies would be fun to play and even more fun to watch, nothing but movement and skill, just my opinion.
I agree, the thing is he is good enough to overcome the aim assist up to on non pro players. I have 1.5k hours on apex on mnk, and literally yesterday I tried controller for the first time on it, I haven't played controller regularly in many years, and I was shocked. I literally tied my kill record for this season in solo's the first day. I didn't even expect to be competitive with it and I ended up doing that, I couldn't believe it, it has changed how I look at the game. Aim assist is so incredibly overpowered, more than I thought, and to be a pro mnk player in this game is that much more impressive to me because they are at such a bigger disadvantage than I realized.
agree 100%
Agreed, I see this take a lot but what many of these high level mnk players dont understand is the disparity is even worse for the casual community.
Itll take an mnk player far more hours of gameplay/aim training just to compete with an average roller player who doesnt even main apex.
I guess the issue they have is if they split how much it will impact the game, some weapons will be more viable on the controller and not on mnk (and visversa) and then the patches will need to be more split maybe ... and eventually, the request of players will be depending if you are on mnk or controler lobbies.
@@Cold84ye but aim assist is only
Good up close people make out I get aimbot from far
Top 10,000 R5RPlayers by Playtime From 2/22/24 to 6/22/
Average Accuracy By Input
Controller: 33.57%
MnK: 25.72%
Controller players avg accuracy is 30.5% higher.
1/4 roller players have higher accuracy than 99.93% of MnK p
Top 3 Controller Accuracy
Evolved Xander: 51.10% (Overall Accuracy Rank #1)
SSG_Koy: 47.71% (Overall Accuracy Rank #2)
WINTERKMINJEON: 47.02% (Overall Accuracy Rank #3)
Top 3 MnK Accuracy
KAZUMAwantan: 38.9% (Overall Accuracy Rank #391)
kokinz: 37.7% (Overall Accuracy Rank #619)
UnstableArmor: 36.73% (Overall Accuracy Rank #902)
Average KD By Input
Controller: 1.15
MnK:.87
Controller players avg KD is 31.5% higher.
I think it would be awesome to have two tournaments a year where its swapping between roller tournaments and MnK tournaments. It would be a lot harder to do it seeing as they would probably want to double ALGS but think it would be better to have a whole seperate series for whatever input ALGS isn't on.
this is why cross play was not really a thing until newer games. the few fps games i remember that first tried crossplay were unreal tournament '99 and Quake 3 both on dreamcast and PC in the early 2000's. controller players just got annihilated cause aim assist wasnt a thing. Crossplay is just a failed idea that needs to go away again for fps games.
does timmy think there's no rotational on classic??? what is he talking about
He never said that
@@evo4gplus watch the video again
@@miclwastaken he literally said classic has rotational aim assist but little bit less compared to linear
@@evo4gplus which is laughable, classic is worse because you need to move your thumb way further to initiate a directional change
@@miclwastaken ye his point is bullshit like why give players a more limited sense so they cant aim as nicely lol
just nerf aimassist so it only works to hel correct inputs but not fight completely wrong inputs
Unfortunately, splitting the player base is a risk EA will never take.
And, especially with the decline in interest of Apex, it's probably hard for a company to justify taking such a risk too.
I do feel for a lot of Mnk players coz it must be so annoying dying to aim assist.
Is playing claw like the first step to being a great controller player?
Not necessarily. Claw or paddles is definitely helps you improve as you don’t have to leave the analogs to press other buttons but I’m sure you could keep up playing default if that was most comfortable to you.
Playing claw on controller in the long run is very detrimental to your hand and wrist health, I have to do hand stetches everyday cause of how fatigued my hands are now after playing claw. Rollers with paddles or extra buttons on the back are infinitely better to learn which is what I've been doing myself recently.
I been on roller fully time for 3 days and its busted it deff needs a nerf but they wont do it shits annoying cuz i think mnk is more fun but when i play mnk i feel lik i have to try my dick off every game
I wish they would stop cross play with pc and console. It was the dumbest idea ever.
Controller player still argue down there
aim assist on MnK is considered hacking
The team Who Win algs dont have controler player, they all mnk
Roller is better no matter what
Aim assist is better*
Roller is dogshit
only because of aim assist. Meanwhile if I get aim assist on MnK its cheating/hacking.
I love your video "What a gold player looks like in ranked" where you sit down in a corner for minutes with a r99 and a shotgun, what a crazy player
Then if they do that if they want console players playing cc on console
Crazy thing is, CODs aim assist is like 5x better & mnk players don’t say a word. It’d be stupid to say “controller is broken”, when playing games that were based on controller input to begin with. So who’s fault is it when you chose to play mnk on a controller game & then complain about controllers? It seems so redundant, & if you’re good enough to play mnk then great, but don’t make aim assist out to be like it Can make anyone competitive
This isn't a hot take. When i grew up on gears of war 1, 2 and 3. There was no fucking aim assist. I hit my headshots on the sticks NO AIM ASSIST. So seeing legit .4 aimbot being not only legal but encouraged by dev's is just fucking stupid in my opinion. Sure i get you want certain players to feel better then they really are so they play more. But the players with brains who understand they just died to legal aim bot don't wanna keep playing the game unless your itztimmy because its my income, i get fame, i get money, i can compete in tournaments etc. Me as a casual on MnK i just simply won't sign into the game anymore. i have 2k + hours and don't get me wrong its a great game. But you die only so many times to a guy who can't hit a single shot over 50 meters, but doesn't miss a single fucking shot within 50 meters so many times before you just don't care about the game anymore.
Apex to me used to be the greatest shooter because "if your good enough you'll just win". Was when i started. Now it just feels like if you didn't buy a chronus, xen, controller, or cheat. you really are not even playing the game your just getting bullied.
imagine how bad the prize pools would be if they seperate inputs
I pretty sure everyone agrees with this, Respawn/EA for some reason can't make it happen lmao
Ofc it matters in the actual game as well lmao game is dying because of it. the game isn't only about pro scene. It should be same input matches in normal ranked as well. I'd go as far as giving us the option to queue for same input in all modes.
Timmy was absolutely right
Since when is that a hot take?
looking for all the roller bots in the comments. where ya at? cmon, call timmy bad cause he said roller is better lmao he has his whole arm to aim too!
Controller players still in denial and say its skill lmao ... as daddy shrpud god of aim said .... "aim assist is cheating" A rated R version of aimbot ....
rotational aim assist is the problem
The best team in the world currently is all mnk. Just play better
Not a hot take at all. He's just plain right.
Like if they split the lobbies into roller or mnk the game would be great but sadly the roller players are keeping the game alive.
Killing it in the long run
Dude needs to go to the gym every now and then... He has hot girl arms. 😬
Yeah the no deadzone aim assist is broken, its literal aimbot. - 6000 hours roller player
Ignorant. You clearly have never experienced actual aimbot lmao
@@timothywaddell8566he’s got soft aim bot on controller so he knows what he’s talking about
or stay crossplay and just turn off aim assist in pro play
yeah who cares about the casuals right
lol then watch the game die even faster. Hahahaha
I think the easiest point to understand from all of this is:
"Imperialhal the player who has won the most tournaments in ALGS has switched to controller because he says it's fucking broken, wouldn't you take the best player in the world's word on it?"
Arguing with the logic of someone who has the experience and has won it all is blatantly a telltale sign of you don't know what you're talking about.
Something no one points out that can also be done to balance mnk and controller is adding aim assist to mnk, you can add a 10%-20% value of aim assist and keep controller at 40% it would be a good test to see how a slightly assisted mnk player can now compete with a full throttled aim assist player
wait let me understand this correctly, aim assist is aimbot, effectively, and so therefore give everybody aimbot
would that not defeat the premise of the original argument that it takes no skill using aimbot, because I've played both mnk and roller, if you give me 10-20% aim assist not only will roller with 80% aim assist not compete with me, I would be only defeated by actual aim bots.
I can't believe you unironically think giving people a xim level experience is what will fix rollers, instead of just uninstalling a controller game for a game where aim assist doesn't exist, like literally there's dozens of pc games you I guess just are bronze at where mnk aim is the only thing that matters and that's where the best mnk players in the world are, not on apex lmao
Let me clarify so you can understand it correctly; if you crank aim assist up to 100% it becomes aim bot, truly not a hard concept to grasp.
Also since your last few brain cells can't comprehend that apex was originally launched to target the console audience they will never remove controller or aim assist. So if you can understand that which truthfully it's not a hard concept, there's no such thing as "balancing" controller because having aim assist at all is broken its a coded script doing partial of the aiming/tracking for you. So maybe if you can understand both the fact that the large demographic for apex is controller players and that there's no such thing as "balancing" controller then you can understand why an argument to give mouse and keyboard 10-20% aim assist can be made and since there's no fixing rollers the only option left is to even the playing field. The top players of ALGS are all controllers there's no MnK for a good reason.
Also to note your last comment you're far from even being the top 10 player in the world my guy even if you had 10-20% aim assist on mouse/keyboard you're not beating the majority of pros/high level players especially if you were to give them 80% aim assist. That was by far one of the stupidest comments I've ever read, how braindead are you and how big is your ego to think you're gonna start competing in ALGS just bc they gave you 10% aim assist on mouse and key 😂 the majority of pros, highest ranked players will stomp you over and over even if you had 10% aim assist on mouse and key. It's not going to take players like timmy or hal 80% aimassist to stomp you just because you have 10% aim assist on a mouse. Absolutely 9000 IQ comment you've made legend.
Hal said something very similiar as well... controller is broken OP.
up close on controller you don’t even have to try, it does all the work for you.
Dude wants to win that bad
up close on controller you don’t even have to try.
@@billybob-fw3vrnot true. Not in the least. Gotta be one of them mnk trollers
@@duanelondon6152 I know this because I used controller all my life
@@billybob-fw3vr can’t bro cuz it’s flat out not true. It’s the same for mnk and roller. The values are the same. I run my shit on performance mode. I’m not one of those wierd 244 computer fps players like the game was made to run on that. But complain about things being overpowered.
@@duanelondon6152 Aim assist up close is ridiculous overpowered
That means we can all blame Nicewigg for it, since he was one of the first Pro rollers players. same with CLG blame them too.
leave snipedown alone, he's one of the goats
Then again the team who won the last lan are all on MnK so 🤷♂️
Japanese MnK. so.... Also they did well getting god spot rather than winning fights during a rotate
So arm vs thumb is fair
found the loser who crutches controller
@@lenk1432 your the dork who wants the advantage of an arm over a thumb. So you’re really just crying cus you don’t have the advantage you normally have. Pathetic if you ask me
Aim assist is not all dat, it is an advantage for some but crappy to others
wouldn't splitting controller and mnk in competitive destroy ~90% of teams right now? Like how many teams are triple mnk and how many are triple controller? not the majority thats for sure. as for the majority, how would splitting them up completely work? how many players are under different length contracts right now? how many teams are built under the synergy of an mnk being an igl and the controllers fraggers and anchors, and the opposite? how many teams have 2 or more players that have years of synergy which is what makes them good in the first place and would be split apart if they're not both on the same input? it's not as simple as "just split them by input all the games do it"
Crossplay was a mistake. Casual apex controller players are clueless asf.
Triple MnK just won LAN - just saying
yeah by playing smart, not by winning team fights get your head out of your ass
because of MNK or despite it?
The fact that it's that memorable is exactly the point.
That's the reason why they always look for two MnK players in every other pro team..oh wait that's not true
@@bdubs85”memorable “ it happened a month ago ago. 😂
I really do wonder what the future of controllers looks like. I like the idea of a delay being added to aim assist, like 100ms(still faster than average human reaction), so that it mimics the reaction time needed for an MNK player to react to direction changes rather than aim assist acting in 0ms like it currently does. Though I could see it going the other way with how widely it seemed controller players adopted cfgs and cronus devices I could see it just becoming some absolute brainrot controller peripheral warfare - afterall there's a lot of money to be made in selling that junk.
There's no "fix" to aim assist though 'cause it's artificial. It's not based on skill.
Sure, controllers are a worse input for FPS so they need some assistance to get the control fine enough to compete with M&K, but then why are they using a controller to play FPS? Stupidity shouldn't be subsidised.
Where's my aim assist with the Guitar Hero II controller? What about my Dreamcast fishing rod? No aim assist on my Logitech racing wheel?
Reject won and they all MNK
Trust us. Controller players also don’t want to play against MNK players. We think you have too many advantages, and you think we have the advantage. Input based matchmaking should be the norm to shut both sides up.
i dont give a f about controller vs mnk in pubs/ranked. Professional/competitive should never have been mixed, but now its too late
PC roller players don't care about fighting mnk players, they generally can't outaim us and the slight advantages you get on mnk don't outweigh free 1 clips.
I say this as a PC roller player.
I like Timmy as a person, but there is zero logic here. I get it's his "perspective", but he didn't make a logical argument. You have the choice to switch to controller if you feel it's not fair. Nobody is forcing you to play mouse and key. The only group of people a mouse and key only league would benefit is mouse and key players. Everyone else including the fans lose. So again, if you are playing mouse and key by choice, there is no point in separating the leagues. You have the option to switch if you want to.
Trust me man, mnk apex would be peak skill vs skill. Rn it’s just assisted pros dominating. They’re not even real pros in most people’s eyes
yeah but who wants to watch 4-3 linear turrets who are all carbon copies of each other? Big difference. Without a cam, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between players like Gild, Koy, Verhulst, Genburten. Yet on MNK you would be able to tell the difference between players like Sweet, zer0, Reps, etc because the skill expression is there. Controller does not have that.
MnK made this game, like it or not. But hey "jUsT gEt BeTtEr BrO" according to every other roller bot. It has always been said both inputs should be split up, is literally a no brainer.
Timmy's so close, but he's lost sight of what it's like to be a noob.
Aim assist is broken at pro levels, but the average controller player is also better (by the numbers) than the average M&K player. It's two different distributions, one shifted higher than the other.
Think about it in terms of men and women and body strength. Men are on average stronger than women, this is biological fact. This means at the top end ("pro level"), there are no women. It's the world's strongest MAN competition, because women literally cannot compete. This does NOT mean ALL men are stronger than ALL women.
But it does mean that if a man and a woman are equally matched in terms of strength, it's highly likely that the man didn't have to work as hard to train to get to that point.
Aim assist makes worse players better. If I'm evenly matched in a fight with someone on the sticks, I have better game sense, movement, cover usage, exploitation of advantage, comms (if applicable), and I'm more handsome, but they have an artificial buffer to their mechanics. They haven't had to spend as long getting better at their aim as I have, which means the rest of their skills are way worse, because they've had less practice.
This doesn't mean I can't beat controller players, that's not the issue. The issue is when I fight a controller player, I'm not fighting an interesting battle. They can do something completely stupid and aim assist their way out of it.
if timmy provided the controller and a clean setup for controller players to try and 1v1 him i bet he would roast them, aim assist scripts make controller supe op
get better.
wow its almost like he answered his own thought.. just be good at your input u like and it doesn't matter.. So... get better or swap. ggs
Couldn’t agree more
so, ideally, each region has 2 algs divisions, based on input?
side note: aim assist literally can't track tap strafing, unless the enemy is so far away that tap strafing would be useless anyways
Proceeds to say he wants to split the player base off of input. And then proceeds to say he can "compete" with controller players. And then complains about how we cant loot boxes if he cant beat a controller player... bros all over the place. Big L Timmy.
timmy complains about it but Reject won the last lan. All of them are mnk. They had a 1 v 1 tournament and a Mnk player won. They cry about Aim Assist all the time. They can be all mnk and they would find something to complain about. man up and stop crying. 🤷🏻♂️
lol all the mnk exploits but complain about aim assist. It’s so cringingly funny.
The MnK league would be so bad controller is like 90% of the userbase
Are we all forgetting the team that won lan was triple mnk lmao aim assist op
Japanese MnK. so.... Also they did well getting god spot rather than winning fights during a rotate
Yeah and they turn super fucking slow... Utilize this with movement
mf not heard of gyro.
Aim assist track tap strafing? Wut?!? That's just wrong.
caustic gas a couple other things.
Reject Winnity all MNK..
Mouse and key is for emails, controllers are for video games.
Then why does the game need to aim for you on the input “made for gaming”
@@Kino-yy8ou Do you really need a lesson in aiming with your thumbs vs point and click aim?
@@timothywaddell8566 Nope, aiming with your thumb is hard...but when the games doing it for you, then it's pretty easy.
@@Kino-yy8ou That's the thing, the game isn't. Overdramatizing aim assist in a way where you're all telling yourselves it's "aimbot" is ignorant and stupid.
@@timothywaddell8566 Get in any game mode with a kill cam. You can actively see the game tracking for people. Roller players aren't trying to aim, they just swipe till slow down kicks in and then just use the left stick to get the free kill. Very few roller players are actually aiming
I agree roller is the better input but im just really sick of mnk people exaggerating what aim assist does. Aim assist will just track someone tap strafing? No it wont. It might slightly pull towards them but thats about it. If aa was as strong as mnk players describe it, every player would be as good as genburten. If you think the roller is easy, go try it and win algs. Hey Hal did it so everyone should be able to do it right?
2.5k hour mnk player here…No one is disputing that their is a skill gap on roller. The issue is that it takes many hours on mnk to even come close to what a roller player is able to do in a fraction of the time bc of aim assist. Even then no matter how many hours you put on the game perfecting your tracking etc most of the time it wont matter because you will get aim assist beamed through visual clutter or get effortlessly one clipped by someone who plays apex only when they’re buddies are online.
Ive hopped on roller for the first time in close to a decade and was immediately able to do things/ hit shots I probably wouldnt on my native input. Barely able to remember what buttons to hit, movement clunky as hell….but still one clipping people in the same lobbies. There is something seriously wrong with that.
No one is saying AA is aiming for you but you're coping if you think its not winning you fights vs MnK players. This sarcastic argument that switching to controller should win me ALGS is literally what I would expect to hear from a 9 year old.
@@nojithan "No one is saying AA is aiming for you" Yes they are. I'm constantly hearing people say it's literal aimbot and the other day Deigo was saying that AA completely eliminates recoil from all guns..."you're coping if you think it's not winning you fights vs MnK players" - I can't find where I said that at all...maybe you're responding to the wrong post.
@@nojithanit’s cuz he is a 9 year old. Don’t talk to these fools. Look at his response it reads like a middle schooler😂
yeah it does
Comparing Region splitting to Input splitting for comp is crazy lol I understand where you're coming from but TRIPLE MNK JUST WON PLAYOFFS.... Please stop the game is fine.
Hot take. Controller is more fun to watch and to play with so if we separate the inputs algs will be all controller
Controller is nauseating to watch and boring af to play. Stop hyping up an input so dogshit that it needs in game help. The game is literally gifting them most of their kills
Controller is not more fun to watch LOL. Why would I want to watch someone with soft aim bot? Up close on controller you don’t even have to try, controller does all the work for me
@@billybob-fw3vr i just disagree. Tbh is live the current way things are. Apex is a console game mostly and should cater toward controller players. Most people play on controller so if mnk is better its not fair to the majority of players
controller isnt fun to watch, the aim assist is doing all the work and the player just holds the stick down to counter recoil, then after the fight they stand still for a minute to loot. sometimes they dont even ads cuz aim assist will just do the work for them, cope more
@@lenk1432 is hal not fun to watch? Is verhulst not fun to watch? The only people that are upset are entitled mnk players that just want to crush controller players
They could just add aim assist to mouse...Halo literally did it like a year ago and it works...But also, they could easily just nerf aim assist in like 3 dozen different ways...But they just don't care..
Fucking no thank you, if I get aim assist I'm quitting. Might as well play cookie clicker.
The movement argument is ridiculous. You’re not tap strafing every situation, it rarely helps in fights and is really an escape mechanic, but aim assist is AWAYS turned on in every situation 100% of the time every bullet you fire.
Mnk got aim assist to tho
@@duanelondon6152 yeah, but you could never tell, if an enemy moves infront of your mouse, your player doesnt track them for you, if a player moves infront of a controller the whole screen tracks them
@@lenk1432 so that’s the small difference that’s what got mnk players butthurt about? Cuz I’d rather my controller not to do that tbh. It causes issues for us on that front to. Cuz that makes it so anytime you’re fighting more than one player annoying. I’ll beam one and the other walks right in the middle then game over
The game is dead. It can't afford to cut the player base in half for the comp scene. Yay xdefiant
Too late to do this! Stop crying!
Stop being put in the open and maybe you won't die to aim assist
Timmy just do the swap and stop being on inferior input