Until a few years ago Seiko was the go-to brand for affordable mechanical watches, but then Chinese watches came along offering value that Seiko couldn't compete with. Chinese movements didn't have a very good reputation so Seiko still had an advantage there, but they were improving and I think the writing was on the wall. So rather than trying to compete with them, Seiko settled for providing movements to them. Chinese watchmakers could offer watches with trusted Seiko movements inside, and Seiko gets a piece of each sale. So now Chinese watchmakers are effectively the budget end of the Seiko range. But compared to selling budget watches, Seiko can sell a huge number of movements with minimal distribution costs, no advertising, and virtually no after sale expenses.
I totally agree! That’s why I made a video on San Martin and why these cheaper but higher finished aliexpress and Chinese watches are the best value for money, and that if you’re looking for specs then they’re your go to!
Ew brotha ew. Watch collecting us illogical and romantic. Fakes, homages, clones, copies and all that junk is just tacky mass consumerism aka the opposite of watch collecting.
Also those watches are made by basically slave labor. Seiko is fully in house ourside of them doing that you'll need to go to rolex who are also fully intergrated or Glashutte original who are 95% in house
I think every collector should have a Seiko in their collection. If not a new one then a second hand one that appeals to you. I haven't bought a new Seiko in three years and the experience was not too great and then I moved to Citizen. That being said there is a lot of heritage and originality to be had within the brand. I agree with you that vintage is awesome! I also think that if you can find a lightly used Seiko for a good price go for it! Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Have a great day man!!!
@@johanvandersandt8904 and you my man! Feels amazing to see you comments on every vid soon after they come out, you’re a proper nice bloke, glad to have ya watching me! Next Saturday is the next video, also if you could tell I’m mostly not using scripts now and talking from my knowledge and heart, being less formal and a bit more laid back and chill, plus a bit more happy with a more comfortable background and such, was trying too hard to be professional, forgot I do this because I love it!
@@WatchConnoisseurClub Thank you for the compliments man! You are growing as a creator and a collector and it shows! The studio looks awesome man! I think being more natural and honest works. That way it feels like a conversation between the listener and the yourself instead of presentation. Looking forward to the next video! Take care bro!
Seiko is a fully intergrated manufacturer aka fully in house. Any Chinese or other aliexpress junk watch that is sourced from possibly unclean materials and made by slave labor is not comparable even if a spec sheet could say so. I don't understand how anyone would support some junk brand like that over seiko who is one of the, production wise, most impressive companies in the industry and workd for that matter. Basically, only rolex operates at their level in terms of intergrated manufacturing and even Rolex bought up a bunch of companies for manufacturing unlike seiko who created new wings and branches in their own company to coninue their development. A JDM seiko may be a tad more expensive than a sourced together watch like say most 1000 dollar watches or slave made junk from china but you're paying for not just the brand but the very underrated level of efficency in one company to make such watches possible at as low of prices as they are. A seiko also carries the name that is arguably the most important name in watchmaking history tied with Rolex. Argaubly the most important even as they never needed any level of clever marketing even near the likes of rolex to be on the wrists of everything from astronauts to military men also without even being issued most of the time. Hence why seiko is still the best. It's like comparing a hugo boss suit sewn together by a slave or machine somewhere in who knows where to a maybe not handmade suit but a suit from a company that makes every last bit of their product from growing their own wool and up. The latter is infinitely more impressive.
I fully agree! I personally wouldn’t buy any of these aliexpress watches but it depends on morals and arguments. It’s not a proven fact it’s made by slave labour, and it’s not just china that does it in fact avoiding them because of ccp forced labour is a moot point when factories in italy got caught using slave labour for designer handbags But yes, I personally buy for brand and design over specifications, and would argue seiko being one of the most impressive and highly regarded brands for me, can’t go wrong with a seiko!
@WatchConnoisseurClub yes and for the price they are. Temu, aliexpress and all of those brands are likley using what may legally in country not qualify as slavery but to anyone else's standards it absolutely does. Plus their own designs suck and their other watches are in the knockoff, fake, clone and so on tier.
You’ve returned! As I did, except not in a black poorly made metallic suit that gives me extreme pain to ensure I’m always angry but not strong enough to kill my master
Seikos are lovely. I paid RRP for mine not because it was perfect, but because it was (and still is) so lovely. I also like that warranty and customer support.
@@WatchConnoisseurClub More like - they're a big brand with an extensive dealer and service network. Which is expensive, which makes the watches expensive.
Well the more entry range for most microbrands and also their own stuff, anything under 300 that’s a microbrand most likely has an nh35 or some variation of it lol!
Hello, you quickly mention Grand Seiko without detailing it too much. What do you think of Grand Seiko and of the Spring Drive movement that powers some of them ? How do you think that they fare compared to similarly priced Rolex or Omega ?
Just depends on what sort of collector you are, Rolex is more reliable and has the best finishing of the three, omega is more complicated and probably the best value of the three, grand seiko is more accurate and has the best dials out of the three All good choices!
Seiko quality is go down those last years If you want a good Seko quality ... go to the old series from 1970 to 1990 ... and their quartz models had stunning accuracy (I think at grand quartz ... twice quartz series and also the Dolce and more expensive old Credor models ) ... contrary as those days !! And indeed the dials are fantastic even in their low price series Or you must go to the expensive side of Seiko .... the Grand Seiko serie ........
I agree! Any 8J or the quartz superior and such are incredible watches, as stated in the video I’m a vintage collector mainly, so I love me anything vintage!
Seiko have moved from the "entry watch" space to a more premium space. QC issues, cheap bracelets, and the inconsistent 6R35 movement be damned, Seiko are a bit lost now. The old industry is being overtaken by microbrands down low, so they're vomiting mew designs and limited editions hoping something sticks. They're like Omega. If they consolidated their portfolio, only made the "greatest hits" in a few popular colours (like Rolex do), they could bring prices down or quality up.
You’re very knowledgable and well acquainted with the industry I see, most people who comment have no idea what they’re talking about so it’s nice to see! And I agree, after the SKX was discontinued they’ve been less and less entry level as well as having more QC issues but I suppose with competition, mass production, the global rise in the cost of literally everything and greedy people at the top us collectors can’t really do anything about it but sit back and cry xD
@@WatchConnoisseurClub You flatter me, I'm just trying to find answers to seemingly difficult quesitons, like why Seiko stopped being the value king (it never was, the grey market was just rampant 20 years ago), why they're putting out so many limited and unlimited editions and so on. I haven't found alll yet, I just comb UA-cam and Perezcope like everybody else. In other words, if you want a value option, pick Orient or Citizen.
Please, stop blaming the Japanese for leaving conservative Swiss cartels in the dust. The Swiss stagnated through the 60's already. Post-war, they had the market fixed in their advantage and they didn't innovate enough in any area (not just quartz, also production chains in general), so they were shafted. Now there's the smart watch revolution and every rigid non-luxury brand struggles. It's the same story all over again.
That a fair point but to make it more simple and not as long winded and complicated, plus trying not to make my videos movies I had to abbreviate a bit! In due time I’ll do a deep dive on specifics such as the quartz crisis if you’d like mate!
@@WatchConnoisseurClub Please do! It's a very interesting subject. I don't mind simplifications, but you straight out said that the Seiko Astron was cheap, which it wasn't. It was a luxury piece with a cutting-edge technology, which wasn't fully mature yet. So what you said wasn't just inaccurate, it was incorrect. Saying that the Astron paved the way for incredibly cheap watches would be true and simple.
Until a few years ago Seiko was the go-to brand for affordable mechanical watches, but then Chinese watches came along offering value that Seiko couldn't compete with. Chinese movements didn't have a very good reputation so Seiko still had an advantage there, but they were improving and I think the writing was on the wall. So rather than trying to compete with them, Seiko settled for providing movements to them. Chinese watchmakers could offer watches with trusted Seiko movements inside, and Seiko gets a piece of each sale. So now Chinese watchmakers are effectively the budget end of the Seiko range. But compared to selling budget watches, Seiko can sell a huge number of movements with minimal distribution costs, no advertising, and virtually no after sale expenses.
I totally agree! That’s why I made a video on San Martin and why these cheaper but higher finished aliexpress and Chinese watches are the best value for money, and that if you’re looking for specs then they’re your go to!
Ew brotha ew. Watch collecting us illogical and romantic. Fakes, homages, clones, copies and all that junk is just tacky mass consumerism aka the opposite of watch collecting.
Also those watches are made by basically slave labor. Seiko is fully in house ourside of them doing that you'll need to go to rolex who are also fully intergrated or Glashutte original who are 95% in house
I think every collector should have a Seiko in their collection. If not a new one then a second hand one that appeals to you. I haven't bought a new Seiko in three years and the experience was not too great and then I moved to Citizen. That being said there is a lot of heritage and originality to be had within the brand. I agree with you that vintage is awesome! I also think that if you can find a lightly used Seiko for a good price go for it! Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Have a great day man!!!
@@johanvandersandt8904 and you my man! Feels amazing to see you comments on every vid soon after they come out, you’re a proper nice bloke, glad to have ya watching me!
Next Saturday is the next video, also if you could tell I’m mostly not using scripts now and talking from my knowledge and heart, being less formal and a bit more laid back and chill, plus a bit more happy with a more comfortable background and such, was trying too hard to be professional, forgot I do this because I love it!
@@WatchConnoisseurClub Thank you for the compliments man! You are growing as a creator and a collector and it shows! The studio looks awesome man! I think being more natural and honest works. That way it feels like a conversation between the listener and the yourself instead of presentation. Looking forward to the next video! Take care bro!
@@johanvandersandt8904 many thanks mate!
Seiko is a fully intergrated manufacturer aka fully in house.
Any Chinese or other aliexpress junk watch that is sourced from possibly unclean materials and made by slave labor is not comparable even if a spec sheet could say so. I don't understand how anyone would support some junk brand like that over seiko who is one of the, production wise, most impressive companies in the industry and workd for that matter. Basically, only rolex operates at their level in terms of intergrated manufacturing and even Rolex bought up a bunch of companies for manufacturing unlike seiko who created new wings and branches in their own company to coninue their development.
A JDM seiko may be a tad more expensive than a sourced together watch like say most 1000 dollar watches or slave made junk from china but you're paying for not just the brand but the very underrated level of efficency in one company to make such watches possible at as low of prices as they are.
A seiko also carries the name that is arguably the most important name in watchmaking history tied with Rolex. Argaubly the most important even as they never needed any level of clever marketing even near the likes of rolex to be on the wrists of everything from astronauts to military men also without even being issued most of the time.
Hence why seiko is still the best. It's like comparing a hugo boss suit sewn together by a slave or machine somewhere in who knows where to a maybe not handmade suit but a suit from a company that makes every last bit of their product from growing their own wool and up. The latter is infinitely more impressive.
I fully agree! I personally wouldn’t buy any of these aliexpress watches but it depends on morals and arguments. It’s not a proven fact it’s made by slave labour, and it’s not just china that does it in fact avoiding them because of ccp forced labour is a moot point when factories in italy got caught using slave labour for designer handbags
But yes, I personally buy for brand and design over specifications, and would argue seiko being one of the most impressive and highly regarded brands for me, can’t go wrong with a seiko!
@WatchConnoisseurClub yes and for the price they are. Temu, aliexpress and all of those brands are likley using what may legally in country not qualify as slavery but to anyone else's standards it absolutely does.
Plus their own designs suck and their other watches are in the knockoff, fake, clone and so on tier.
You’ve returned! As I did, except not in a black poorly made metallic suit that gives me extreme pain to ensure I’m always angry but not strong enough to kill my master
Dude really likes Star Wars lol, but yes I hath returned hopefully forever! Another vid this weekend :)
Seikos are lovely. I paid RRP for mine not because it was perfect, but because it was (and still is) so lovely. I also like that warranty and customer support.
Yeah since they’re a big name and respected you won’t have issues with customer support or warranty which is great!
@@WatchConnoisseurClub More like - they're a big brand with an extensive dealer and service network. Which is expensive, which makes the watches expensive.
Without SEIKO all these UA-cam videos wouldn’t be here.😮 Seiko movements power the world
Well the more entry range for most microbrands and also their own stuff, anything under 300 that’s a microbrand most likely has an nh35 or some variation of it lol!
Hello, you quickly mention Grand Seiko without detailing it too much. What do you think of Grand Seiko and of the Spring Drive movement that powers some of them ?
How do you think that they fare compared to similarly priced Rolex or Omega ?
Just depends on what sort of collector you are, Rolex is more reliable and has the best finishing of the three, omega is more complicated and probably the best value of the three, grand seiko is more accurate and has the best dials out of the three
All good choices!
Seiko quality is go down those last years
If you want a good Seko quality ... go to the old series from 1970 to 1990 ... and their quartz models had stunning accuracy (I think at grand quartz ... twice quartz series and also the Dolce and more expensive old Credor models ) ... contrary as those days !!
And indeed the dials are fantastic even in their low price series
Or you must go to the expensive side of Seiko .... the Grand Seiko serie ........
I agree! Any 8J or the quartz superior and such are incredible watches, as stated in the video I’m a vintage collector mainly, so I love me anything vintage!
Seiko is the best of the best when considering price/quality, while Swiss made watches are all overvalued insanely.
Yeah other big name brands like tissot for example cost more for less product
I could say that I m fun seiko 🥰
Cheers man..
You’re welcome? xD
What’s the cheers for mate?
@@WatchConnoisseurClub For working in a harsh environment.. XD
Lmao that’s a top tier comment
What is the Seiko reference in the thumbnail?
The SPB463J1 “Shiro-iro” presage!
@@WatchConnoisseurClub thanks!
Seiko have moved from the "entry watch" space to a more premium space. QC issues, cheap bracelets, and the inconsistent 6R35 movement be damned,
Seiko are a bit lost now. The old industry is being overtaken by microbrands down low, so they're vomiting mew designs and limited editions hoping something sticks. They're like Omega. If they consolidated their portfolio, only made the "greatest hits" in a few popular colours (like Rolex do), they could bring prices down or quality up.
You’re very knowledgable and well acquainted with the industry I see, most people who comment have no idea what they’re talking about so it’s nice to see!
And I agree, after the SKX was discontinued they’ve been less and less entry level as well as having more QC issues but I suppose with competition, mass production, the global rise in the cost of literally everything and greedy people at the top us collectors can’t really do anything about it but sit back and cry xD
@@WatchConnoisseurClub You flatter me, I'm just trying to find answers to seemingly difficult quesitons, like why Seiko stopped being the value king (it never was, the grey market was just rampant 20 years ago), why they're putting out so many limited and unlimited editions and so on. I haven't found alll yet, I just comb UA-cam and Perezcope like everybody else.
In other words, if you want a value option, pick Orient or Citizen.
Please, stop blaming the Japanese for leaving conservative Swiss cartels in the dust. The Swiss stagnated through the 60's already. Post-war, they had the market fixed in their advantage and they didn't innovate enough in any area (not just quartz, also production chains in general), so they were shafted.
Now there's the smart watch revolution and every rigid non-luxury brand struggles. It's the same story all over again.
That a fair point but to make it more simple and not as long winded and complicated, plus trying not to make my videos movies I had to abbreviate a bit!
In due time I’ll do a deep dive on specifics such as the quartz crisis if you’d like mate!
@@WatchConnoisseurClub Please do! It's a very interesting subject.
I don't mind simplifications, but you straight out said that the Seiko Astron was cheap, which it wasn't. It was a luxury piece with a cutting-edge technology, which wasn't fully mature yet. So what you said wasn't just inaccurate, it was incorrect.
Saying that the Astron paved the way for incredibly cheap watches would be true and simple.
Never buy Seiko. Just not worth it.
Spec wise? Nah
At full RRP? Nah
On a sale? Yeah it’s not too bad
Vintage too, vintage seiko is great value for money