Jouplast 80 140 Pedestal Review and Installation Using 20mm Porcelain Tiles
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- This is a short review outlining the use of the Jouplast adjustable, fixed head pedestal and vibration buffer plates, purchased from ManoMano: www.manomano.c...
The 20mm dark grey Stargres Star 2.0 porcelain tiles were a special from MKM
Clear and to the point. Thanks very much f the video. In a few months I will be building a similar patio.
@@Meritumas thank you for the comment. Just be sure to add a central pedestal if using porcelain slabs. I've explained in previous comments but one on each corner was not enough support.
Thanks for a great video and your comprehensive replies. I intend laying a large wooden floor in a barn conversion using suitable Jouplast pedestals.
Hi. I think they offer a very good, cost effective way of isolating any timbers or metal from ground contact. I would definitely consider using them for a decking or shed project.
Thank you so much for the video! Very informative. Been hard trying to find a video thats not from the manufacturers/sellers of the pedestals.
That's one of the reasons I filmed it Nazneen. I hope it helped you.
Thanks, Ben. Bought a bunch of these without really knowing where to start. You fixed that!
I'm glad the video helped you. Good luck with the project.
This system looks like you could have issues with tiles cracking due to it being hollow underneath !! 20mm porcelain tiles are strong but any excess pressure I.e kids/adults jumping or dropping heavy items they will crack if not fully supported underneath.
You aren't wrong. I had to add an additional support to the centre of each tile after putting my foot through one when I stepped down off of a ladder?
I think they work well in areas where maximum drainage is required though. Like a row close to the house for example?
Excellent review. Thanks for putting in the time for all of us poor souls trying to figure it out. I found your review very relaxing as well. I’m hoping you have some other how to videos. I’d watch you change a tire or clean the sink.
Thank you Andrew. That's very kind of you and a massive compliment. I feel encouraged to do some more reviews or 'how tos' as and when they crop up. Cheers!
Informative video mate, I'm just looking at pedestals now, thanks for explaining
Thanks for the video. It's by far the most useful and practical one I've found! I've had a bad run with hiring in "experts" so I wanted to cover a cement stained patio myself without ripping it out. Hoping this will be ok on riven slabs with the help of a bit of sand in the holes...we shall see!
Thanks Eleanor. Just be aware that 20mm porcelain is an absolute minimum spec. I have added a pedestal to the centre of each of my 600 x 600mm tiles since the video. Good luck!
Worked out great! I put one in the middle of each for strength. Bit clacky to begin with, but just a bit of adjustment and it's fine.
very good review! Thank you!
Very good instruction video, Ben. Well done.
I’m a novice, so this was great, thanks
Good morning. Thank you for your reply. We have had the patio in place for over two years now and after adding an additional pedestal to the centre of each tile we have had no further issues.
I'm considering using this system for our patio. Is it only for porcelain tiles and What issues could there be when it rains and then freezes underneath the patio? Is their a risk of the pedestals shifting?
Cheers
How much weight can the tiles take if they are only supported in the corners? And what does the price compare to building it up and laying it on the ground? Thanks
Hi Ben. Thanks a lot for your video. I haven't been able to see anybody else reviewing/installing/talking through their experience with pedestals. So it has been really useful to see your video, a first hand reference about pedestals. Your video is from about one month ago. Would you mind to describe how has been your experience with it? Does it feel exactly the same as if you walk on a patio laid out the traditional way on mortar? Do you feel any movement or vibration when you walk or someone else walks/falls/sits on the tiles with the pedestal system? have you had to re-adjust any of the pedestals? If you were able to comment on my questions as soon as you can it would be greatly appreciated since we have already our builder on site and we might change our idea of the paving part of the garden project. Thanks a lot!
Hi Miguel. Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I've not had any notifications before today?
I have since had to add an extra pedestal to the centre of each 600 x 600 x 20mm porcelain tile as I cracked one! Tiles will vary in strength from manufacturer to manufacturer but I wouldn't rely on supporting by the corners alone. I have also added spacers to the perimeter where the tiles meet the walls to stop shift. They do shift if you don't. The overall feel is ok now. They sound very different under foot when compared to mortar bedded slabs though. If I was to do this over again I would probably raise the floor level to bed the tiles on mortar and only use the pedestals over drain covers and close to the house wall to create a drainage area.
Hi Ben, Great video. I'm a level zero when it comes to DIY, but only exploring such videos because Ive been quoted £4000 to lay a patio, and I'm researching how to get the price down. This method looks cheaper than the traditional method, but I have a few Qs:
1/ if there's a huge gap between the ground and the tiles, how do you prevent vermin from nesting there?
2/ how do you prevent weeds from growing there as I didnt see a weed suppressing membrane?
3/ The porcelain tiles I'm interested in buying are only 9.2mm thick (from B&Q); should I steer clear? Are they going to give me grief later on?
4/ The landscapers who have quoted for my patio so far have said that they wouldnt want to raise the patio up to the level of the kitchen floor (to make a seamless flow from house to garden) because of the damp course; how close in height can a patio get to the damp course if laid in this way, and if laid in a more traditional way?
5/ Does there need to be a gap filled with pebbles/stones between patio and house?
6/ I didnt understand what you meant about the manhole covers -- were you saying you'd just lift up the entire tile (and create a gap in the patio) if you needed to access the manholes? How would you even remember where the manholes are if you cant see them and havent got them marked out?
Very sorry for the dumb Qs! Like I said, I'm a complete newbie.
Hi Safi456.
1. I built a block wall around the perimeter and used anthracite fascia board to fill the gap/step down that leads to a side path so there are no gaps.
2. I laid a heavy duty permeable membrane BENEATH the 100mm of type 1 hardcore. Not much daylight reaches the hardcore, not much will grow in hardcore and anything that does grow would pull out easily enough.
3. 20mm porcelain tiles are an absolute minimum with this type of system. I ended up adding centre supports after cracking one.
4. Each case differs but as a general rule the GROUND level should be 150mm below damp course. Porcelain absorbs very little moisture so does not grow moss and create a green band up your walls as stone or concrete paving slabs would. As long as you have spacers to keep the slabs away from your house wall a few millimetres and there is adequate drainage to prevent any chance of water rising above DPC, in theory you could bring the patio level up to where you need it with a pedestal system.
5. Only if you need to create drainage when building a more traditional patio close (but not above) DPC.
6. How often do you lift manhole covers? I know where mine are but you could draw a simple map and keep it in a drawer. These lift up with a sucker pad or tile lifter or even a bent Alan key so not too much bother.
Hope this answers your questions but please understand these are only my opinions. A good builder, landscaper would be able to advise you in your particular circumstance.
2yrs is there anything that you would change on the install?
Thank you for asking. I would bond tiles around the edge instead of using gravel that's all. The gravel tends to attract weeds and also gets kicked up by creatures and the mower.
Thanks Ben
Looking at this a few years late, but so helpful. Thank you! Can I ask where you put your French drain and why you needed it?
Hi. Thank you for your comment. First and foremost I didn't wish to step out and 'down' but wanted to keep the level of the patio as level with the inside as possible. According to building regs you should have 150mm (minimum) below the DPM so you can either build a step locally to the french doors and then step down or build your patio with a 200mm trough close to the house 😬. Then this product popped up and I had a eureca moment. In answer to your question; the garden slopes towards the back of the house so in the event of extreme wet weather I wanted to make sure the water was channeled away as quickly as possible. I figured the patio could sink in places if it stayed waterlogged too.
Great video thank you
is been 3 years , how dose it handle is still any good ?
Yes, with the addition of a centre pedestal on each tile, it's been absolutely great. 👍🏻
do you know the manufacture of porcelain tiles? can you even share pls? Im going to use mot type 1 but there are big stones in it? does type 1 comes in variuos sizes?
Hi Ali. Type 1 can vary in size with stones vastly bigger than the 28mm stated. I had to remove some of the really large stones and added a few bags of course sand as a means of filling. I found that dampening down the area while machine compacting helped to keep dust levels down and also brought the finer stuff to the surface.
The tiles brand are Stargres but there are many other manufacturers. 20mm is the minimum recommendation but check with the manufacturer if possible. I cracked a tile stepping down off of a stepladder so have since added an extra pedestal to the centre of each tile.
Hi Ben
Good informative video on using the Pedestals and that size Patio will compliment your Garden and Home. Have you any idea what bearing weight the Ceramic Slabs will take, as I was going to use Concrete Slabs but harder to handle.
The manufacturer states that the pedestals should take 800kg each but your tiles will dictate the bearing weight? I would use 5 pedestals per tile to be safe as I cracked one stepping down off of a ladder!
You video inspired me as we have drainage challenge so we eventually started the project. I may send you pics when completed
Few more questions:
#1 How do you protect edges? - Do you put anything from patio to step into garden as like you my patio will have a step into garden.
#2 Should I glue base of risers in far ends. I did j
#3 So far experience is good we are only half done - However, there is very minor moment (very minor) when we step into patio - Is it due to rubber. Slabs are placed solid though.
#4 My type 1 is well compacted - however, it is not leveled 100%. Any tips to do minor adjustments ?
Hi. I would build a perimeter wall once you have finished and bond a thin boarder of tiles to finish level with the patio. I bonded aluminium angle to my perimeter wall, to stop tile shift, and filled it with white gravel but the squirrels keep digging it up and it spills onto our lawn.
I added dry course sand mixed with a little cement to bind it to level some areas.
I have added a short finished video 👍.
does it not sound hollow when you walk on it?
A little, yes, but you don't notice it after a while. In all honesty I think this product works best where you want to hide drain covers and/or maximize drainage. I had to add a fifth pedestal to each tile for more strength so if I had to do it again I would have only used them over drain covers and for a row close to the house to cover the french drain. On the negative side, that would have been more costly and would have required very precise retaining wall positioning for each section of back fill.
Any issue with bugs or rodents nesting/ dying under the tiles?
No. I've made sure all the gaps are too small and the edges are made up of concrete blocks.
Is it by using this kind of system , I don’t need / cannot do grouting between two porcelain gap?
Grout would just fall out. There is no need anyway. It is designed to drain away so no water collects.
Im bit confiused if go for fixed head or self leveling - There is massive differnence in price. I will be using type 1 though.
If you can get the ground level, fixed head pedestals work fine. A bit of extra work but saves a lot of money. If the ground needs to slope for drainage you will need to use the self leveling ones.
What is the need for this system when compared to just using mortar to fix the tiles on to the ground ?
As explained in my video:
1. The system allows manhole covers to be completely hidden.
2. It allows for bringing the patio level up to DPC (building regulations strongly advise ground level to be 150mm below as a minimum). This can become an issue if pinpointed by a future buyers surveyor.
3. Great at managing excessive rainwater if used in conjunction with hidden perforated pipe/french drain.
Also:
4. Tiles can be lifted (without causing damage) to rectify any unforseen issues like tree roots effecting ground level or burst water pipes for example.
5. Power cables for garden lighting or irrigation systems can be run out of sight.
6. This system is easy enough to lay as a DIY project and also requires less ground preparation, less spoil removal and less materials, so saves time and allot of money.
I'll agree, It's not ideal for every situatIon.
A pedestal system is not suitable if the patio needs to bare the weight of a vehicle or a hot tub.
Just finished my one - There is slight moment at one side to my boarder? do you think pic angle will stop tile shifting ? how you bound pls angle with concrete block and tile? thanks
I would use a minimum 1.5mm thick Aluminium angle as my plastic angle at the sides does flex and make noise if grit gets behind it. An MS (modified silicone) polymer adhesive works well. Still flexible but has a higher bonding strength. Good luck and Happy Christmas!
Thank you for the video, what is the material under the pedestals ? No concrete ?
Hi DiY Dof.
It's 100mm of machine compacted type 1 hardcore on top of a heavy duty permeable sheet, on top of clay dense soil with a few bags of course sand thrown in for final levelling.
Can these also be used as decking riser for a wooden platform for composite decking?
Yes but there is a difference head for that purpose. www.wickes.co.uk/Jouplast-Plastic-Adjustable-Decking-Risers---80mm-to-140mm---Pack-of-6/p/207743?scid=scplp207743&sc_intid=207743&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=CjwKCAjwlYCHBhAQEiwA4K21mweGHWW8SGSKgvTxWCZWJmAWNw8vCKEUY0Z7p0Tvnqu3HrNX_QXaRxoC4KMQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Can this be used on level soil? Need to lay a temp patio for a year.
I wouldn't like to say. It would depend on the soil density, how compacted it is, how flat it is and how much foot traffic. In theory if its only short term light use you could compact it flat and put a membrane down to stop soil being washed away?
@@benjamog1710 I decided against using these. Im a little concerned, even for short term use, of their safety. It's so easy to break a concrete slab. I can just imagine the mother in law snapping her leg on my diy job.
Hi Ben, I'm wondering how much water will pool on the tile if the deck is completely level?
If only I could add an image to this chat? Not that much more than on a slight tilt I imagine? Once the water tension has broken on the edges it poors away.
Hi..can you tell me where I can get that system in Colombia
Sorry if I gave you the impression that I am a sales representative for this system. I am not. Nor have I ever been to Colombia. 🤷
Try MRP Support pedestals best on market eterno self leveling head
Hi Ben, useful video, how did you cut your porcelain tiles? And did you get a clean cut, thanks, Paul
Hi Paul. I only had to cut around the down pipes so used a 75mm RUBI diamond hole saw (from Tops Tilesh with a 'v' piece of wood clamped to the tile to stop it skidding around.
thanks for video - do you think outdoor porcelain could chip easily using this system?
The potential is there to crack or chip a tile for sure. You wouldn't want to drop a heavy object on a hollow patio and as I have previously mentioned, I had to add an additional pedestal to the centre of each 600 x 600mm tile for piece of mind after cracking one. If you are relatively careful you should have no issues but I would still keep at least a couple of tiles spare.
We're thinking of doing this up bi-fold doors so it's flush with the house. Do you know of any issues butting up to a door frame?
Where this system works really well is providing plenty of drainage but you should be aware that the tiles do shift if they are not packed off of a perimeter of some description i.e. a wall or border. They also have a different sound under foot.
You may wish considering just using pedestals for a row or two close to the house wall for drainage and using a more traditional cement bed for the rest? The pedestal manufacturers warn against having hot tubs and other heavy objects placed on the system so there are limitations you should be aware of.
Hi, what would be the maximum size 20mm tile which you would use, that would not require a middle support pedestal?
400 x 400mm? I added a centre pedestal to my 600 x 600 x 20mm tiles after breaking one. No issues since.
@@benjamog1710 Thanks for taking the time to get back to me - I was thinking the same 400 x 400 - Very informative video - Thunbs up from me
Hi Ben, im going for the same tile 20mm, was thinking of bedding them in until i saw your video. You think this system would cope as a drive? Given the weight of a car...
Hi Sunny Cho. This system is absolutely not suitable for supporting a car, hot tub or anything else heavy!
A 20mm tile will only take approx 200kg. I added another pedestal to the centre of each tile after cracking one stepping down hard off of a ladder.
A driveway would need much thicker tiles AND fully supported by a decent sub base.
@@benjamog1710 Thanks Ben!
have you experienced type 1 wash away and you have re-adjust the pavers?
Not yet. Very little movement.
I laid a heavy-duty membrane beneath the hardcore so not really anywhere for it to go?
Can I jump on these? I like to do plyometrics on my patio will they crack?
Hi Boris. The pedestals themselves will take around 800kg but they say to use 20mm porcelain tiles as a MINIMUM. I actually cracked one stepping down off of a ladder so have since added a centre supporting pedestal to each 600 x 600 x 20mm tile! 🙄
@@benjamog1710 Hey thanks for the reply really appreciate it, I realise most people probably don't exercise on their patio so it's an uncommon question. I did see on another install video they used 5, so effectively works like a 5 dot dab method by the looks of it. I did think though the plastic would absorb some energy from anything dropped on it.
how solid does it feel ?
Hi Avi. With the addition of a centre supports to each tile they feel solid enough but I would fix them at the perimeters to stop shift.
Great video 👍🏼 I find my 60 x 60cm porcelain tiles move very slightly on these supports and make a slight sound when walked on. Very annoying. Supports are on a solid concrete base. I’ve even tried using a grout between the tiles which stopped the sound for a few weeks but the movement has led to the grout falling out. Any advice please?
Hi Honest Al. I have noticed my tiles shifting a few millimetres since installation too. Some have even started to rock a little in places where there isn't even any foot traffic but ground moves no matter what you do (look at any traditionally installed patio or driveway after 10 years)? I'm happy to have something that is adjustable. The movement is slight and easy enough to rectify.
I wouldn't grout it. I have seen some systems that have a supportive framework and a push in foam rubber bead to look like grout but this is an expensive option and kind of defeats the object of having a self draining patio IMHO. All I can suggest is having a fixed boarder by building something around the edge so the tiles cannot drift?
Ben Moggeridge thank you for your reply. Really appreciate it. Good to hear your experiences and suggestions.
@@benjamog1710 it’s now been about a year since I’ve had mine down. A couple more tiles have started to rock, two by quite a bit. I’ve contacted the pedestal manufacturer and they advised using a padded rubber collar which sits between the support and porcelain tile. They say this helps dampen movement and also stops and tile noise due to movement. They’ve arrived today from Amazon so will lift out the affected tiles and let you know how I got on. At some point I’m going to make a video of my experience for my UA-cam channel. By the way, I’ve just subscribed to your channel. Keep up the good work 👍🏼
@@Thereviewerman5 Thank you. Can I ask, did you use a powered wacker plate to compact the ground? I've not seen any worsening with our patio so far. I hope you manage to resolve your issue. Stay in touch. 👍
@@benjamog1710 I went directly over an existing patio. However, I didn’t build a solid surround like you. Perhaps that’s why I’ve had movement.
Am I missing the point here but why not bed these on sand/cement mix🤔
Excellent drainage, bringing up level of patio as close to DPC as possible and hiding drain inspection covers?
How's your patio doing now?
Hi Chris. The patio is doing great thank you. No issues following adding a central pedestal to each tile. I may do a follow up video as a few people have asked about the long term durability.
@@benjamog1710 thanks mate, how important is the centre Pedestal because I'm thinking of skipping it out to save £££
@@Chris-jl6vk It depends on your tile/slab size, thickness and strength. My tiles are 20mm porcelain at 600 x 600mm and I broke one stepping down off of a step ladder so I added another pedestal to the centre of each tile.
I would assume smaller or thicker tiles would be OK but i would contact the tile/slab supplier if possible? I certainly wouldn't risk only supporting the corners using 20mm porcelain.
@@benjamog1710 oh sh*t that's exactly what I have 600 x 600. I already spent £900 on the Pedestals. Mine are £4.50 each Wallbarn ones. I think I will wait for one to crack and then do them
@@Chris-jl6vk Did you check with the supplier for suitability?
You forgot about securing pedestals LOL
To what? Type 1 hardcore? You know That's like bonding to sand right? The bases are smooth on the bottom so not designed to be bonded to anything.
U kidding mate aren’t ya 😂😂 I know porcelain is strong but I wouldn’t recommend that just get some old good sand cement underneath it thars like walking on glass
Eso para suelo exterior no vale
Este sistema se comercializa para balcones exteriores, tarimas y zonas húmedas alrededor de piscinas.
Never going to be as good as a full bed of mortar and primer on the back of the tile. Don’t waste your money doing the job twice
I appreciate your opinion James. I agree that this wouldn't be right for every situation but if ones garden slopes towards the house, there are multiple manhole covers and one would like to bring the level of the patio/terrace up close to DPC, the pedestal method could prove to be a very safe and practical option. I won't be doing it twice. I am very happy with the result and performance, but then again I made sure I did everything possible to eliminate future issues i.e. building a perimeter retainer, installing a perforated pipe french drain and adding a fifth pedestal to each tile.
These are a joke drop anything they will crack. How can u joint them the jointing compound will fall out to the bottom after a little bit off foot traffick. Should be full bed n slurry on the back of tile aswel. Tut tut
Hi Steve M. As explained in the video, no jointing compound is used. The idea is for the rain to run through the 3mm gaps. This system was originally designed to be usually used on roof terraces where bonding to a flat roof is not suitable and drainage is to be maintained. It has gained momentum in other areas recently due to the practicality of being free draining. This system has been used around outdoor swimming pools and is used in public areas as a practical means of being able to run services beneath while maintaining access. This system is not suitable for every situation, agreed, but for some (as in my case) it could prove to be a very practical and effective option.
🤣🤣🤣 what a joke , only 1 way to lay porcelain and this ain't it🤣
Enlighten me because I couldn't find a single definitive way that was void of potential future problems?
You always have haters, good review Ben!
@@MBtrue Thank you for your support. I'm very happy with the patio and have no regrets. We've had some torrential rain in Dorset over the last few days and while everyone around me has had their garden turned into a swamp and even had water come up in the house we've been absolutely unaffected.