This is why i still have my library of records. And will never get rid or sell them. And I'll always collect more records. But im still in the game of this future Dj life. I just won't depend on just computers to store all my music. Technic 1200 till I die.💯🤘
I agree with you. I have been in the dj game for over 30 years and have never used anything but vinyl and I love my second pair of 1200's I have had for 26 years.
For now, I'm done with mixers altogether. I haven't had a situation where I need a mixer in a long time, so a controller does everything I need it to do, and so much I like having access to. I could see one day getting a mixer and cdj (or turntable) setup, just to feel the nostalgia flow through me and blow some cash, but it's definitely not anything I'm looking into anytime soon
100% truth. It's actually really bad business for any company to stop supporting hardware they sold to the public and are just playing selling tactics to force customers to upgrade to their latest and greatest. It's like if I buy a tool for my shop and the motor is pre-programmed to stop working after so many hours, just because Dewalt did this on purpose so that I would have to buy their latest tool would be a horrible business practice. What these DJ companies are doing is no different than that analogy. It's shady as hell. If you sell something to the public, then it should be supported for as long as it's physically capable.
Great topic! The companies that manufacture the hardware know exactly what they are doing.. it's being done on purpose. They are greedy and forcing our hands as dj's to constantly buy new hardware and upgrade. Case in point... Pioneer DJ when they came out with Rekordbox. All of the "nicer" and "premium" pioneer dj controllers were only for Recordbox. Serato dj users were cast on the side until recently when they threw us a bone in the form of the DDJ-1000 SRT...which by the way STILL does not have all of the bells and whistles of the original DDJ-1000 for Recordbox. Greed! Greed! Greed! That's the bottom line. Great video as always Cleveland!
Dam right!!!! I remember having analog mixers/turntables ect for 10-20 years. I am just a bedroom Dj now (retired from mobile djing and recording/engineering in 2003) so I don’t buy equipment often. I can go with the same controller/mixer for at least 15 years! I still have a 2011 MacBook Pro and I ain’t buying another one until it ceases to function. I hope that my Tractor Kontrol S4 is compliant!!! That &)!@! Cost me over $900!!!! My MPC Studio Silver Better work for 15 more years tooo!!! I still own a JVC double cassette deck and it still works! Mess around and I’ll go back to ADAT and cutting /splicing Tape!!! They do the same thing with cellphones!! I gotta buy a new phone every 3 yrs. I still have my old Razors in a drawer and my blackberrys too. My mother-in-law had an iPhone 4 that could no longer be upgraded. I still have my old itouch with over 5k songs on it. It won’t hold a charge after one hour. Analog lasted longer!
Been using my 20 year old Vestax PMC-07 Pro with a Rane SL2 box and Serato DJ Pro on Mac Big Sur (and classic vinyl records). Unfortunately, can't get Serato Video to work with my set up (needs MIDI capabilities) so looking for a new mixer. This video makes me want to just stick to my set up!
i agree with u, non class compliant hardware is ridiculous. in this day even a mixer from 10 years ago should still work. the USB interfaces have not changed and the software has only improved. i bet u can take a old MP3 player from 2003 and plug it and it will still work. I know on the mac apple uses specific drivers to make most USB devices just plug and play. the fact that a manufacturer would go out of their way to restrict flexibility or just neglect its user base is absurd. i commend virtual dj for having a team constantly keeping old devices supported its not easy but they still do it. i currently have a SZ (1) and still wonder why pioneer never gave a firmware update since 2017. companies should be held accountable for having their devices work. when they charge $2000 for a product it should not only be valued for 2 years.
I totally agree and am sick of perfectly good Equiptment becoming non usable " it's definitely a money grab" and ultimately top on my list when spending my money. I won't ever buy a non class compliant piece of gear ever again. and fyi I made this decision before I saw this video but props to Cleveland Terry for talking about what were all thinking.
I still use serato scratch live 😂😂😂, I just got the rane 62 for $500!! I’m also still running snow leopard in my 2008 MacBook Pro. If it’s not broke don’t fix it!
Thanks Terry I really appreciate this video. I've been experiencing so many issues with my 62. This explains everything. Now it's time for an upgrade. I really like the 62 and I agree with a lot of your point. Well balanced arguments. Keep it up bro I enjoy all your videos
Very informative video sir. This lockdown has had me troubleshooting, brainstorming and testing all sorts of setups for online video. You vids have been particularly helpful, and this specific video made me realise the reason my audio interface seems to be broken is because it isn't class compliant. Going forward I will never again purchase a usb device that doesn't meet that criteria.
Great video. I still believe in analog mixers with no digital or software interface. I can't comprehend buying a mixer that has a shelf life, or count down to being obsolete. I'm still using my 4 channel Denon X1600. it's never let me down and handles small to large jobs.
I agree completely. I have a few midi mixers but my favorite mixer at the moment is a mint condition Tascam X-8 that's analog. It was made in Spain by Ecler and sounds terrific. I use it more than my other more modern boards at home just for the sound quality.
Very insightful, thank you. I don't think I can say I'd ever do AWAY with a mixer because that's just what learned from but in these times and for the small things controllers are great! Very good question, I will have to ponder on that thought. I go back and forth all the time, mainly because of my vinyl usage. Thanks again.
I was looking into buying a new mixer but my 57 SL still functions fine (always well looked after) travelled with me to so many gigs for over 10 yrs now. I chose to buy a Denon DS1 serato box and an effects unit for about a third price of a new DJM S9 or Rane 72 or 70. Now using my 57 SL with serato DJ pro with access to all features and its great.
Same here, 57SL with SL3 and SP1. The 57 is still an awesome mixer and will probably out last these new mixers. Too much technology in these mixers, somethings bound yo go wrong.
Im glad ur teling us this a little just a little late, not to late for some but it really helps im not gonna get no new/used mixers.. since they are not complient, im good....
Thank you for taking time to break class Compliant devices for us. What are your thoughts or RANE 64 is it still usable with a new(er) laptop using an older version of Serato? Thanks 🙏🏻
I’m an IT Pro/DJ and when DJs or clients would ask why I was using a PC, I would just say because the drivers don’t work on my Mac. I started to notice not having the Mac logo on the back of my computer started hurting my perceived value so I just gave in and upgraded my controller. But everything was running just fine. Go figure.
You hit the nail on the head in a more politically correct way, C.T. It's plain old-fashioned greed. I'm going to assume that most of their customer base are loyalists. So that's who's wallets they are salivating over. Forced the loyaltist to constantly upgrade, and guarantees your next round of profits to the shareholders/stakeholders.
The why answer to your question is because people do not work together towards a common goal. While there is people with money to spend and to say they are the first to have the latest gadget they will give company reason to do what they one buy buying the new product. By the way when is Pioneer getting a new mixer or making needed changes to the S9.
The thing you've said during the 7th minute of the video is the developers perspective... not everybody has a laptop JUST FOR SERATO... Sometimes you have to upgrade bc of another programm or new hardware you bought (which sometimes only works with the newest version of mac os at the time it has come out) I mean I have multiple computers. One I use for work and university and another I use for djing and my imac I mainly use for video editing and beatmaking with maschine and ableton... It gets freaking complicated if companies really think that everybody has a laptop for every programm or every piece of hardware. A few months ago I had to make the decision if I want to upgrade my operating system and serato to the newest version OR if I want to still be able to use my maschine mk3 with my newer laptop. The funny thing is I still use serato scratch live on my 57 with my 11 year old macbook. Still works but I fucked up my itunes integration by upgrading itunes on that maschine^^
What some of us DJ's don't understand is a lot of these DJ companies if not all, are under the same umbrella, so in reality, they have the means to adjust noncompliant to a complaint; it's all about the money
I know it has been a while, but I am at the point of replacing my beloved 62 mixer. I'm on Big Sur with Serato 2.5.5 and it works great but I'm missing out on all the new features in 3.1.1 Just checking to see if my baby is fully obsolete or is there a workaround. Great channel!
The only real work-a-round is to buy either a Reloop Flux or Denon DS-1 box and not using the onboard sound card. I’ve been using the DS-1 with an old TTM-57 SL and it works great.
I bwt very few people know what class compliancy is. I didn't until this video, thanks. If I had know the s9 wasn't class compliant, it would still be sitting on my table. Until one gets burned, one still plays with with torches.
I still have my old gemini mixer that it analog and that thing is over 20 years old and it still works. For me personally I'm going to stick with a controller for now to get back into practice and hopefully soon upgrade to a XDJ-RX2 since I do not want to be tied to a computer if I do not have to. (Just need to rebuild my music library)
I've been systematically commenting, pointing out and challenging manufacturers in social networks, forums and UA-cam on their incoherence of this "proprietary driver" spec. in their products. I believe it's good that Cleveland, and hopefully the rest of the vlog/review community is putting the topic on focus. To go deeper in the reasons to only invest on Class Compliant products : - There is nothing that technically limits a Audio/MIDI class compliant product Vs a proprietary driver one - As Cleveland suggests, a proprietary driver product is way more likely to bring you into temporary or definitive compatibility issues, making your system unstable and your product obsolete a few years after purchase - Previous point will reduce the resale value of your product to close to 0 at the occasion -iOS/iPadOS works only with class compliant products and when you check out the latest iPadOS and iPad Pro, you probably don't want to miss the option to replace your laptop with it for DJing or music making in the future. In the DJ/Music gear industry, those who mainly use proprietary drivers are : - Pioneer DJ (except on lowest end controllers/mixers), - Native Instruments (they kinda are but it's enabled by Controller Editor software which is proprietary), - Roland (except for some products with generic mode), - Electron. Most others use class compliant interfaces, to mention a few : Allen & Heath, Denon, Rane (since a few years), Numark, Reloop, Akai Pro (on DJ products), Mixars, Arturia, Yamaha, Zoom (through generic mode option), Tascam, Novation. They all make their products Audio/MIDI class compliant or provide a mode in their settings for that. Apple has been pushing forward standard drivers and for Audio/MIDI class compliant interfaces because they have suffered in the past from low hardware compatibility in their platform when the Mac had low marketshare. And though it now has great marketshare, they continue to push for that because it also happens to bring OS stability by removing the interoperability issue proprietary drivers typically suffer from (blue screen of death anyone ? :)) Notice Apple is now even informing its developers of forthcoming depreciation of kernel extensions on macOS. They probably want macOS to work like iOS/iPadOS and support only standard driver designed hardware. This could eventually put pressure on hardware makers to create products with class compliant Audio/MIDI interfaces or generic type drivers for non music products (they have the same strategy for pointer devices, network adapters, printers etc).
@Clevland Terry, I was always told that no question is a stupid question so here it is: What specs would you look for/not look for if something is class compliant or not? Thanks for this video by the way!
Terry, I have a Rane 62 as a back up and I’m kind of ghetto my newest Mac is a 2015 13 inch (I have also 2 2010 MacBook Pro and White MacBook(13 & 17 inch with has El Capitan) you can use Serato Scratch Live, Serato dj and dj Pro.
I am strictly turntables.....now..... i sold my ddj1000 back to guitar Center...... and Sticking to the topic....Terry my friend....You brings up heckuva topics....👍😲, Bravo.....i owns MDJS9 mixer.....and thinking about Rane 70 mixer.....Soon???????.... after all this Corona Drama....😳🤯🤧🥶, allah help the world.....Terry .....Salute u bro....and your discussions.....i enjoys it.....
Honestly i' d happily pay hundreds of dollars just to get serato dj working on my rane 62 with a new laptop in 2022!!! This is the best mixer ever IMAO. Love the simplicity of it and the Filter FX is so dope on my old tropical records! it adds something really special to my mixes and is absent from all new mixers!! Can t see myself working without it now.. Lately i' ve been investing in vinyls heavyly. Just spent 3 month ripping them 24/7 on my old macboook to realise there are often glitches in the sound and many tracks are unusable. Next my macbook dies and now i m stuck with no laptop an obsolete mixer in perfect condition and no good solution in sight.. Makes me want to kill myself seriously.. I personally don t need all the pads and blings of the rane seventy, 72, djms9.. Also i need to do alot EQ's and i hate that they increased the lenght of the new mixers, pushing the eq section further to the very top, wich will force me to bend my back even more to reach them.. I ve always loved Rane products for the superior sound quality and built of their gear. I also still own my now obsolete SL3 that i started DJing with when it came out. Please Rane help us Old Chool Dj's!! A pay for update or a new simple class-compliant 2 chanel mixer with the Filter fx would save it!! Please! Please! Please! I really need this! Been slowly working my way up to the craziest eclectical DJ set, practicing my technics and selections for 15 years, mixing all genres of music with a special love for funky tropical grooves and oldschool Hip hop. Ground breaking stuff for real!! Now I'm stuck and don t now what to do... Help!!!!!
I think you said it yourself: "we gave these people this dirvers in the operating system seven months ago so..." That has always been the case for developers to have early access to Apples Operating systems a half a year or longer to begin working on bugs. If said vendors choose to be non-class compliant then I really feel like the burden should then be on them to ensure that they stuff works prior to release. If "they don't have enough resources" or whatever other excuse is offered then they really have no reason to not be class compliant. I know this is a Serato focused video, but you know the funny thing: The Native Instruments Z2 mixer is so long in the tooth at this point (10/5/2012 > 7 years old at this point) and since it is a class compliant device it still works to this day! The funny thing is a lot of DJs will turn their nose up at that mixer saying "oh that's old, that's out of date, you're still rockin' that?, etc..." To me it seems like Pioneer and Serato are battling to be the "Apple of the DJ world": Planned obsolesce and producers of fine "status symbol" / "envy producing" gear that is not necessarily better (only better by "brand" and "how cool one is" for owning said product). Oh well, rant over. Either way, myself and another viewer were shouting you out on @John Simmons live stream last night (with @DJBARRNJ, DJ Rick Webb, etc...) in the hopes they will include you in a future one!
Really starting to hate Rane right now. I haven't updated to Catalina because of the issues that can plague me and my 62. Thanks for the informative video.
I've never had a serato mixer. After the Rane 2 Serato box with a analog mixer I went straight to entry level controllers which worked great for DJing for my artist' shows. Never a problem. Now that I'm doing more birthdays and weddings, I got an upgrade. But now, you had to say something about the SX3, which has me nervous! My SX3 works fine with Catalina at this moment. Are you expecting a problem on the next OS?
This is such a great video. I bought a 62 second hand. Tested it on site, and have not been able to get it to work with Serato. It feels like a puzzle of trying to line up the correct firmware, audio driver, mac/pc, operating system version, & Serato software version. I've got it to work in some cases, but then it will play a horrible loud distortion noise a radnom intervals that is defening (litterally dangerous for a live preformance). Or the sofware will just strait up not recognize the the audio cards. I love the fader, and feel of the mixer. It's solid hardware. But on it's software end, it's abandoned and left dying in a ditch. It's a shame really, as it such a dope mixer. Still works great with my legit vinyle though.
Once I got my laptop, NS7iii and SDJ Pro working. I haven’t updated in years. I was terrified to even update when Serato came out with a new one 😂😂 I’m still on Yosemite or El Captain I think. It’s been since 2015ish.. I’d still be using my old Mac, (which still works) just not with Serato..
My NS7II and my particular MacBook Pro is are a pain. I want to upgrade but I feel like all they are going to do is upgrade and have the same situation over again.
Good point. On top of that I would like to be able to use any mixer with any software. As a Traktor user I can never use the full potential of the new Serato mixers.
Yes I know this is an old video but the topic is still valid today, I feel that anything over $700 should be class compliant and should work forever! I mean it's only audio routing standards and midi channel assignments, if a device follows those 2 standards than the only reason to upgrade would be for added functions/features or better actual hardware, NOT cause it was just written out of the software for no reason!
It's 2023 and I'm watching this... My Rane 68 was very expensive when I first got it. Now it's just a regular mixer, I can't reassign midi control buttons etc with new Reloop FLUX hardware connected. It's truly a a regular mixer/paperweight now. My Behringer DDM4000 is class compliant but is a nightmare to setup with the memorization of buttons so I'm forced to return my NEW ReLoop FLUX Serato box and swap it for a Numark Scratch Mixer. Go figure!
One of the nice things about class compliant gear is that mobile devices can make use of them as well. I can use an old Behringer U-Control 202 with my iPhone for streaming and it works great (so long as you follow the order of operations).
TL;DR watch out for Macs with a T2 chip: USB audio interfaces will “skip” and those interfaces aren’t stable especially on macOS Catalina. Great video! That’s why I generally like class-compliant devices and also like having my DVS device separate (like the Denon DS-1) from my mixer. However, the newer Macs with a T2 chip process audio through the T2. Even with class compliance, there is a bug somewhere (AppleUSBAudio, Core Audio, AVFoundation framework) that causes audio to “skip.” The audio engine “pauses” because of “overload.” Anyone with a Rane 70 or a Reloop Elite and a MacBook with T2 having “skipping” issues?
It's a crazy thing... This thing called obsolescence.... Up until week ago, here now 4 months into 2021 - I was trying to find a way make sense of buying an Allen and Heath Xone 92 an analog mixer ...just many for being known for a club standard back in the day but if I want to do DVS? I need the SL3 or SL5 serato box...but man...it scared me that those devices are old too...I didn't want to go too deep with old hardware and end of with obsolescence. All DJ things going the way of Apple, and it is not cool!
I use my 57 when i spin vinyl, also i still have one laptop that still has osx 10.10 & scratch live 2.5 on it. I have not brought another serato mixer since. They are just too much money. I just bought 2 controllers for the price of 1 of the mixers
feeling very out of date with my ttm56s but also I never had to think about anything. Put on a 12" and it works. Now I'm afraid to buy anything new... ALSO DAMN ARE THESE THINGS EXPENSIVE!!!
Hey so , I’m looking to buy a mixer where I can use both serato and vinyl and still use the sound effects from the mixer to use with vinyl . But also just for bedroom use or mobile use or small bars . I always loved the s9 but brand new is still to expensive. My budget is between $500 - 900. I found a couple of used rane 62 for 600 or 700 bucks but I also found a used S9 for 900 bucks . I use serato but only use serato lite , my Mac book needs to be updated to use pro . But I wana use it right now for mostly vinyl . What do you guys recommended?
Man, good video. I truthfully hadn't even considered this as an issue but now it makes me think. For example the youngest midi mixer I own is the Mixers duo 2 and my others are a pioneer djm t-1 and Traktor Z2. Both relatively old by today's standards. All of these I'm assuming are not class compliant as they need updated drivers. I'm an admitted gear hoarder and hate selling equipment but maybe I should sell these off before they're no longer usable as software advances...
You can find a DJM-850 for $700 or a DJM-900NXS in good condition for $900. They both work with Serato with no drivers. The 900 isn't the cheapest thing ever, but it's something to keep in mind before you get something with major drawbacks. They're always available on eBay. It still gets updates, I still see them in clubs, it has LAN if you ever get CDJs, and it has working drivers to send the 24-bit USB digital audio output straight into Audacity or OBS or whatever. They last forever. I don't even think the NXS2 is a real improvement. If I ever sold mine it would probably be to get a V10, and that's not happening anytime soon.
I have a Rane Sixty Two and I love this mixer. Works very well with my older 2009 Macbook Pro. Hopefully I wont have to upgrade to the Rane Seventy or the Seventy Two
I’ve actually got the rane 57sl and my MacBook Pro 2010 model upgraded to Sierra(highest it can go) and BOOM, 57sl stopped working.. had to play with it a LOT it works only when I power down and restart the computer.. thinking about grabbing a sixty two, with a denon ds1 and pioneer xp2 just to upgrade the whole thing for a while.. and that would still be cheaper than getting a 72
I just recently discovered this issue, wanted to use a new win 10 laptop with my 62 and rane can't give us a working driver, they only have a beta driver, whole bunch of pissed off people in the rane forum about this. I still use my win 7 laptop with my 62 and it works fine. I'm now looking into getting a 70, but i'm just cheap.
HI! How can we identify if a mixer is class compliant or not? I use Windows 10 and I'm interested in either a Reloop Elite or a Mixars Duo MK2! Thanks :))
So class compliance does eliminate breakages between OS updates, and yes non class compliance can be used to force obsolescence. However, there is an argument for developing ur own driver - if the OS update breaks anything in the OS audio driver, now the hardware manufacturer has to work with the OS developers to solve the problem. You might think never happens but it does. The Traktor Kontrol Z2 is class compliant... but a few years ago, I used to experience audio dropouts on MacOS. As it turns out, Native Instruments claimed the bug was in the OS itself...i.e. coreaudio driver. It took at least a year for this to be fixed. When you have ur own driver, u have more control of such issues. The truth is the decision u make for driving the hardware can introduce dependence or reduce it, at the expense of convenience, it's not only the money making aspect that is in play here.
Even thou it limits my options... for the past three years i have ONLY purchased hardware that was class complient. And my life has been so much easier. That last case was a Reloop Elite. My reason? Good DJ hardware is expensive, i dont buy it for a year or two i buy them for a long timeeeeee. Plus It wouldnt the first time a controller that needed a driver has... done something funny during a session... With a class complient hardware that is sooo much harder.
I still remember when i bought my TT57SL and it was sold as being future proof, robust, long lasting it was out of date within a few years was so disappointed
denon dj product 10 years old are great but give problems with the newest wasapi drivers.....why? the old asio drivers where fine but they are not supported anymore
I literally just picked up a 62 second had last week unaware of the Catalina issue. Driver updated when I plugged it in but can't access the audio control panel to update mixer firmware and adjust additional settings. Kinda frustrating. Program seems to work fine otherwise.
On the Windows side the driver issue is not as serious, now on a Mac OMFG! I've come to terms that my "Live performing" Mac I just have to run older versions of MacOS and it's actually ok since that particular laptop is strictly for Live mixing so as long as Serato DJ itself runs I'm cool
I grew up DJing since 1994. When I first got my hands on the raneTTM 57SL I was in heaven with my new MacBook 13 inch. The day I was informed that there would no longer be support for my mixer I vowed never to buy another piece of DJ equipment that was combined with a company such as serato. Since then I have seen a tremendous amount of equipment come in carrying the Serato name that is outdated. I have Family that have used turntables since before I was born and still use to this day with absolutely no issues and no computers. The next piece of hardware I will buy will be the prime 2 or prime 4. Standalone, USB ports to access my music, I can take the damn thing anywhere I want and plug it in and it will play. It makes no sense to have to buy a computer to play music. Do you need a computer for your guitar, saxophone, drum set? These companies should be providing quality, not junk.
Now, this convinced me that stand alone's have their place. Well, not for me; I'm still happy with Win7, Dell Lap's, VDJ, all day and, I own TT-les and CTRL-ers that all work in the latest VDJ. For me the most important is WHAT SHE SAID! ua-cam.com/video/yd8jh9QYfEs/v-deo.html
Update to my last reply: After going through three (3) broken Prime 4’s with a 4th replacement in transit I’m done with Denon. Back to my trusty pre-InMusic TTM57 sl with SL3 and 1200s that have never failed. Yes it’s old but again it’s never failed opposed to three (3) broken prime 4’s with under 30 days of ownership.
Pisses me off my Rane 64 is upgraded for Mojave but not sure on catalina. Worse thing is ai have a imac pro 2019 $6k and I haven’t updated yet from Mojave... Rane i been with for over 20 years 8 mixers all that $$$ and why they don’t update. I know that there is a way to correct the Rane preference pane. But with Catalina would it work as well.
Yes you should anything else will have support droped sooner or later. Vestax controllers are still working with most recent serato but decade old mixer somehow is "too old". Also 1 out of 2 mixers released same day still works with recent serato. The other one has 2 never updated models from range so go and figure it out. They could do a driver for each and every one of these mixers as long as they are usb 2 compatible. But they won't to make you buy new one
remember when the most you had to worry about was decent needles and clean faders.Some djs would have two or three mixers and maybe four Technics if they were doing well and may have had that their whole career .They didnt need to be programmers to do a gig and they relied on machines built for the job they did.Lets face it few computers are really up to the job of modern djing and unlike Technics and certain mixers they will only last about three to four years if your lucky and will go full tilt for two and a half again if your lucky.Modern mixers and controllers had the issue that eventually they were obsolete because computers constantly upgrade as does the software.Though its heavy and it has limitations .Vinyl does not crash .Your vinyl wont up and vanish from your crate like it has done on on a hard drive and as long as you are using good needles and you look after your vinyl it wont suddenly decide not to play.I use Serato with time coded cds or vinyl but i always wonder if tonight is going to be the night when nothing works even though i have a new high end Mac book pro but also to make sure i can do things how i want i have to buy a very expensive computer that will never last as long as my vinyl collection and a couple of decks and analogue mixer back in the day that would not leave me broke.I cant continue to spend two grand on a machine that has such a short lifespan and that would make mixers last less long then that because of software upgrades .I know we cant go back but it all seems a bit wasteful .I like what the new technology has done for djing with video mixing easier access to production and more creative mixing possibilities but i hope there will be regulations to ensure that one can still open up computers and get them fixed by people other than the makers so that there is not so much waste of material.Sorry i went on an old dj rant.
You are 100% correct. To this day I don't do a gig even if its a wedding or house party without at least a solid hour or two backup on vinyl. The number of times I've had to pull out a quick impromptu vinyl set cos the other DJ computer has crashed/ Serato crashed/ hard drive not working etc... An yea I'm one of those cats that has four 1200s and I bought em cos I know that it covers me for the whole career.
I have a Denon DN-X1600 that I love so much and it is a class compliant mixer. Despite of that fact, the soundcard is practically useless now from Mac OS Sierra and above. I am really disappointed with all these tech around and not supporting perfectly operational legacy equipment. Back in the days, you would look forward to an update with your OS because it would improve the usability of your hardware. Now it’s completely the opposite. ☹️
This is why i still have my library of records. And will never get rid or sell them. And I'll always collect more records. But im still in the game of this future Dj life. I just won't depend on just computers to store all my music. Technic 1200 till I die.💯🤘
I agree with you. I have been in the dj game for over 30 years and have never used anything but vinyl and I love my second pair of 1200's I have had for 26 years.
I am old school to . I was around when DJ was still using vinyl, then cd came. I am same way cd.
Same here bro
For now, I'm done with mixers altogether. I haven't had a situation where I need a mixer in a long time, so a controller does everything I need it to do, and so much I like having access to.
I could see one day getting a mixer and cdj (or turntable) setup, just to feel the nostalgia flow through me and blow some cash, but it's definitely not anything I'm looking into anytime soon
This dude knows what he’s talking about. He’s literally telling you what the consumer don’t want you to know.
100% truth. It's actually really bad business for any company to stop supporting hardware they sold to the public and are just playing selling tactics to force customers to upgrade to their latest and greatest. It's like if I buy a tool for my shop and the motor is pre-programmed to stop working after so many hours, just because Dewalt did this on purpose so that I would have to buy their latest tool would be a horrible business practice. What these DJ companies are doing is no different than that analogy. It's shady as hell. If you sell something to the public, then it should be supported for as long as it's physically capable.
Brandon Unger Exactly
Great topic! The companies that manufacture the hardware know exactly what they are doing.. it's being done on purpose. They are greedy and forcing our hands as dj's to constantly buy new hardware and upgrade. Case in point... Pioneer DJ when they came out with Rekordbox. All of the "nicer" and "premium" pioneer dj controllers were only for Recordbox. Serato dj users were cast on the side until recently when they threw us a bone in the form of the DDJ-1000 SRT...which by the way STILL does not have all of the bells and whistles of the original DDJ-1000 for Recordbox. Greed! Greed! Greed! That's the bottom line. Great video as always Cleveland!
Dam right!!!! I remember having analog mixers/turntables ect for 10-20 years. I am just a bedroom Dj now (retired from mobile djing and recording/engineering in 2003) so I don’t buy equipment often. I can go with the same controller/mixer for at least 15 years! I still have a 2011 MacBook Pro and I ain’t buying another one until it ceases to function. I hope that my Tractor Kontrol S4 is compliant!!! That &)!@! Cost me over $900!!!! My MPC Studio Silver Better work for 15 more years tooo!!! I still own a JVC double cassette deck and it still works! Mess around and I’ll go back to ADAT and cutting /splicing Tape!!!
They do the same thing with cellphones!! I gotta buy a new phone every 3 yrs. I still have my old Razors in a drawer and my blackberrys too.
My mother-in-law had an iPhone 4 that could no longer be upgraded. I still have my old itouch with over 5k songs on it. It won’t hold a charge after one hour. Analog lasted longer!
Been using my 20 year old Vestax PMC-07 Pro with a Rane SL2 box and Serato DJ Pro on Mac Big Sur (and classic vinyl records). Unfortunately, can't get Serato Video to work with my set up (needs MIDI capabilities) so looking for a new mixer. This video makes me want to just stick to my set up!
i agree with u, non class compliant hardware is ridiculous. in this day even a mixer from 10 years ago should still work. the USB interfaces have not changed and the software has only improved. i bet u can take a old MP3 player from 2003 and plug it and it will still work. I know on the mac apple uses specific drivers to make most USB devices just plug and play. the fact that a manufacturer would go out of their way to restrict flexibility or just neglect its user base is absurd.
i commend virtual dj for having a team constantly keeping old devices supported its not easy but they still do it. i currently have a SZ (1) and still wonder why pioneer never gave a firmware update since 2017. companies should be held accountable for having their devices work. when they charge $2000 for a product it should not only be valued for 2 years.
Interesting- first time hearing about class compliant mixers. Something I will definitely check before buying my next mixer- Pioneer S10?
I totally agree and am sick of perfectly good Equiptment becoming non usable " it's definitely a money grab" and ultimately top on my list when spending my money. I won't ever buy a non class compliant piece of gear ever again. and fyi I made this decision before I saw this video but props to Cleveland Terry for talking about what were all thinking.
I still use serato scratch live 😂😂😂, I just got the rane 62 for $500!! I’m also still running snow leopard in my 2008 MacBook Pro. If it’s not broke don’t fix it!
JJ 2020 yea but you can’t rely on computers
Vladimir Abreu yeah your 💯 right, I do carry a back up with me tho.
JJ 2020 I still use Scratch Live also. Does the 62 work with Scratch Live??
djdeuce1200 it sure does, I believe it was the last rane mixer to work with SSL. It works with serato dj as well.
JJ 2020 cool...I’m thinking about getting one. Thanks for the info.
Thanks Terry I really appreciate this video. I've been experiencing so many issues with my 62. This explains everything. Now it's time for an upgrade. I really like the 62 and I agree with a lot of your point. Well balanced arguments. Keep it up bro I enjoy all your videos
Very informative video sir. This lockdown has had me troubleshooting, brainstorming and testing all sorts of setups for online video. You vids have been particularly helpful, and this specific video made me realise the reason my audio interface seems to be broken is because it isn't class compliant. Going forward I will never again purchase a usb device that doesn't meet that criteria.
Great video. I still believe in analog mixers with no digital or software interface. I can't comprehend buying a mixer that has a shelf life, or count down to being obsolete. I'm still using my 4 channel Denon X1600. it's never let me down and handles small to large jobs.
I agree completely. I have a few midi mixers but my favorite mixer at the moment is a mint condition Tascam X-8 that's analog. It was made in Spain by Ecler and sounds terrific. I use it more than my other more modern boards at home just for the sound quality.
You don’t have to use these mixers with DJ software. They still function as traditional analog battle mixers...
AMEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNN, JESUS CHRIST, IVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR YEARS. HAVE MERCY!!!!!!
Wow you brought up a point I never even realized was a thing I should know about. Thank you for keeping us informed!
Very insightful, thank you. I don't think I can say I'd ever do AWAY with a mixer because that's just what learned from but in these times and for the small things controllers are great! Very good question, I will have to ponder on that thought. I go back and forth all the time, mainly because of my vinyl usage. Thanks again.
@Cleveland Terry Thanks for the great videos and information. Question are the Rane 12 Mk2 class compliant system? Thanks..
I was looking into buying a new mixer but my 57 SL still functions fine (always well looked after) travelled with me to so many gigs for over 10 yrs now.
I chose to buy a Denon DS1 serato box and an effects unit for about a third price of a new DJM S9 or Rane 72 or 70.
Now using my 57 SL with serato DJ pro with access to all features and its great.
Same here, 57SL with SL3 and SP1. The 57 is still an awesome mixer and will probably out last these new mixers. Too much technology in these mixers, somethings bound yo go wrong.
Im glad ur teling us this a little just a little late, not to late for some but it really helps im not gonna get no new/used mixers.. since they are not complient, im good....
Thank you for taking time to break class
Compliant devices for us. What are your thoughts or RANE 64 is it still usable with a new(er) laptop using an older version of Serato? Thanks 🙏🏻
Great video! Very informative, im actually thinking of buying an S9. I guess it's not recommended? Since it isn't class compliant?
I’m an IT Pro/DJ and when DJs or clients would ask why I was using a PC, I would just say because the drivers don’t work on my Mac. I started to notice not having the Mac logo on the back of my computer started hurting my perceived value so I just gave in and upgraded my controller. But everything was running just fine. Go figure.
Rane 62 works perfect with Virtual DJ 2021 very good on Catalina on Macbook Pro
You hit the nail on the head in a more politically correct way, C.T. It's plain old-fashioned greed. I'm going to assume that most of their customer base are loyalists. So that's who's wallets they are salivating over. Forced the loyaltist to constantly upgrade, and guarantees your next round of profits to the shareholders/stakeholders.
My thoughts exactly!.. I’m also glad I held on to the Rane 56s.. great Video👍🏾
The why answer to your question is because people do not work together towards a common goal. While there is people with money to spend and to say they are the first to have the latest gadget they will give company reason to do what they one buy buying the new product. By the way when is Pioneer getting a new mixer or making needed changes to the S9.
The thing you've said during the 7th minute of the video is the developers perspective... not everybody has a laptop JUST FOR SERATO...
Sometimes you have to upgrade bc of another programm or new hardware you bought (which sometimes only works with the newest version of mac os at the time it has come out)
I mean I have multiple computers. One I use for work and university and another I use for djing and my imac I mainly use for video editing and beatmaking with maschine and ableton...
It gets freaking complicated if companies really think that everybody has a laptop for every programm or every piece of hardware.
A few months ago I had to make the decision if I want to upgrade my operating system and serato to the newest version OR if I want to still be able to use my maschine mk3 with my newer laptop.
The funny thing is I still use serato scratch live on my 57 with my 11 year old macbook. Still works but I fucked up my itunes integration by upgrading itunes on that maschine^^
What some of us DJ's don't understand is a lot of these DJ companies if not all, are under the same umbrella, so in reality, they have the means to adjust noncompliant to a complaint; it's all about the money
I know it has been a while, but I am at the point of replacing my beloved 62 mixer. I'm on Big Sur with Serato 2.5.5 and it works great but I'm missing out on all the new features in 3.1.1 Just checking to see if my baby is fully obsolete or is there a workaround. Great channel!
The only real work-a-round is to buy either a Reloop Flux or Denon DS-1 box and not using the onboard sound card. I’ve been using the DS-1 with an old TTM-57 SL and it works great.
I bwt very few people know what class compliancy is. I didn't until this video, thanks. If I had know the s9 wasn't class compliant, it would still be sitting on my table. Until one gets burned, one still plays with with torches.
I still have my old gemini mixer that it analog and that thing is over 20 years old and it still works. For me personally I'm going to stick with a controller for now to get back into practice and hopefully soon upgrade to a XDJ-RX2 since I do not want to be tied to a computer if I do not have to. (Just need to rebuild my music library)
I've been systematically commenting, pointing out and challenging manufacturers in social networks, forums and UA-cam on their incoherence of this "proprietary driver" spec. in their products.
I believe it's good that Cleveland, and hopefully the rest of the vlog/review community is putting the topic on focus.
To go deeper in the reasons to only invest on Class Compliant products :
- There is nothing that technically limits a Audio/MIDI class compliant product Vs a proprietary driver one
- As Cleveland suggests, a proprietary driver product is way more likely to bring you into temporary or definitive compatibility issues, making your system unstable and your product obsolete a few years after purchase
- Previous point will reduce the resale value of your product to close to 0 at the occasion
-iOS/iPadOS works only with class compliant products and when you check out the latest iPadOS and iPad Pro, you probably don't want to miss the option to replace your laptop with it for DJing or music making in the future.
In the DJ/Music gear industry, those who mainly use proprietary drivers are :
- Pioneer DJ (except on lowest end controllers/mixers),
- Native Instruments (they kinda are but it's enabled by Controller Editor software which is proprietary),
- Roland (except for some products with generic mode),
- Electron.
Most others use class compliant interfaces, to mention a few : Allen & Heath, Denon, Rane (since a few years), Numark, Reloop, Akai Pro (on DJ products), Mixars, Arturia, Yamaha, Zoom (through generic mode option), Tascam, Novation. They all make their products Audio/MIDI class compliant or provide a mode in their settings for that.
Apple has been pushing forward standard drivers and for Audio/MIDI class compliant interfaces because they have suffered in the past from low hardware compatibility in their platform when the Mac had low marketshare. And though it now has great marketshare, they continue to push for that because it also happens to bring OS stability by removing the interoperability issue proprietary drivers typically suffer from (blue screen of death anyone ? :))
Notice Apple is now even informing its developers of forthcoming depreciation of kernel extensions on macOS. They probably want macOS to work like iOS/iPadOS and support only standard driver designed hardware. This could eventually put pressure on hardware makers to create products with class compliant Audio/MIDI interfaces or generic type drivers for non music products (they have the same strategy for pointer devices, network adapters, printers etc).
Jay Neural great post!!!
@Clevland Terry,
I was always told that no question is a stupid question so here it is:
What specs would you look for/not look for if something is class compliant or not?
Thanks for this video by the way!
Terry, I have a Rane 62 as a back up and I’m kind of ghetto my newest Mac is a 2015 13 inch (I have also 2 2010 MacBook Pro and White MacBook(13 & 17 inch with has El Capitan) you can use Serato Scratch Live, Serato dj and dj Pro.
I am strictly turntables.....now..... i sold my ddj1000 back to guitar Center...... and Sticking to the topic....Terry my friend....You brings up heckuva topics....👍😲, Bravo.....i owns MDJS9 mixer.....and thinking about Rane 70 mixer.....Soon???????.... after all this Corona Drama....😳🤯🤧🥶, allah help the world.....Terry .....Salute u bro....and your discussions.....i enjoys it.....
Honestly i' d happily pay hundreds of dollars just to get serato dj working on my rane 62 with a new laptop in 2022!!!
This is the best mixer ever IMAO.
Love the simplicity of it and the Filter FX is so dope on my old tropical records! it adds something really special to my mixes and is absent from all new mixers!! Can t see myself working without it now..
Lately i' ve been investing in vinyls heavyly. Just spent 3 month ripping them 24/7 on my old macboook to realise there are often glitches in the sound and many tracks are unusable. Next my macbook dies and now i m stuck with no laptop an obsolete mixer in perfect condition and no good solution in sight.. Makes me want to kill myself seriously.. I personally don t need all the pads and blings of the rane seventy, 72, djms9.. Also i need to do alot EQ's and i hate that they increased the lenght of the new mixers, pushing the eq section further to the very top, wich will force me to bend my back even more to reach them.. I ve always loved Rane products for the superior sound quality and built of their gear. I also still own my now obsolete SL3 that i started DJing with when it came out. Please Rane help us Old Chool Dj's!! A pay for update or a new simple class-compliant 2 chanel mixer with the Filter fx would save it!!
Please! Please! Please! I really need this!
Been slowly working my way up to the craziest eclectical DJ set, practicing my technics and selections for 15 years, mixing all genres of music with a special love for funky tropical grooves and oldschool Hip hop. Ground breaking stuff for real!!
Now I'm stuck and don t now what to do... Help!!!!!
I think you said it yourself: "we gave these people this dirvers in the operating system seven months ago so..." That has always been the case for developers to have early access to Apples Operating systems a half a year or longer to begin working on bugs. If said vendors choose to be non-class compliant then I really feel like the burden should then be on them to ensure that they stuff works prior to release. If "they don't have enough resources" or whatever other excuse is offered then they really have no reason to not be class compliant.
I know this is a Serato focused video, but you know the funny thing: The Native Instruments Z2 mixer is so long in the tooth at this point (10/5/2012 > 7 years old at this point) and since it is a class compliant device it still works to this day! The funny thing is a lot of DJs will turn their nose up at that mixer saying "oh that's old, that's out of date, you're still rockin' that?, etc..."
To me it seems like Pioneer and Serato are battling to be the "Apple of the DJ world": Planned obsolesce and producers of fine "status symbol" / "envy producing" gear that is not necessarily better (only better by "brand" and "how cool one is" for owning said product).
Oh well, rant over. Either way, myself and another viewer were shouting you out on @John Simmons live stream last night (with @DJBARRNJ, DJ Rick Webb, etc...) in the hopes they will include you in a future one!
Thanks man. I just noticed that video today. 😂
Really starting to hate Rane right now. I haven't updated to Catalina because of the issues that can plague me and my 62. Thanks for the informative video.
Unfortunately I don’t think the 62 will not be supported by Rane. They are moving on.
I've never had a serato mixer. After the Rane 2 Serato box with a analog mixer I went straight to entry level controllers which worked great for DJing for my artist' shows. Never a problem. Now that I'm doing more birthdays and weddings, I got an upgrade. But now, you had to say something about the SX3, which has me nervous! My SX3 works fine with Catalina at this moment. Are you expecting a problem on the next OS?
I love your videos, man. Great job 👏
This is such a great video. I bought a 62 second hand. Tested it on site, and have not been able to get it to work with Serato. It feels like a puzzle of trying to line up the correct firmware, audio driver, mac/pc, operating system version, & Serato software version. I've got it to work in some cases, but then it will play a horrible loud distortion noise a radnom intervals that is defening (litterally dangerous for a live preformance). Or the sofware will just strait up not recognize the the audio cards.
I love the fader, and feel of the mixer. It's solid hardware. But on it's software end, it's abandoned and left dying in a ditch.
It's a shame really, as it such a dope mixer. Still works great with my legit vinyle though.
What version are you using ! 2.5& ‘down it should work
I will say, every OS X was a nightmare with the 62. I got to the point I couldn’t use the 62 anymore with SDJ even with an updated driver.
Pri yon Joni yeah, even when it works, it barely works and yes, 64 and 68 suffer from the same issue.
I would guess the 68 and 64 had the same limitation?
Once I got my laptop, NS7iii and SDJ Pro working. I haven’t updated in years.
I was terrified to even update when Serato came out with a new one 😂😂
I’m still on Yosemite or El Captain I think. It’s been since 2015ish..
I’d still be using my old Mac, (which still works) just not with Serato..
Yea Im still on el capitan.. Scared my main apps/programs not playing nice with updates
My NS7II and my particular MacBook Pro is are a pain. I want to upgrade but I feel like all they are going to do is upgrade and have the same situation over again.
It took me 10 minutes but now its working . ( Catalina+ Serato DJ Pro 2.4.1+ Rane 62 latest firmware for the core audio )
Hey, super-topic, DJ T!
Totally agree. It's a topic that we never think about it but it's 100% on point. C-Terry is spot on
Good point. On top of that I would like to be able to use any mixer with any software. As a Traktor user I can never use the full potential of the new Serato mixers.
They force us to update and it's not fear to us as Dee Jay's why should we to keep updating our laptops to the latest updates
Denon 6000 MK!! it's the first class compliant I believe. The MkI wasn't. It's on YT somewhere.
I update my firmware on my Rane 72, Mac OS. Catalina, The Mixer Kept Switching Off, Like It Was Restarting Ever After 20 Mins
Yes I know this is an old video but the topic is still valid today, I feel that anything over $700 should be class compliant and should work forever! I mean it's only audio routing standards and midi channel assignments, if a device follows those 2 standards than the only reason to upgrade would be for added functions/features or better actual hardware, NOT cause it was just written out of the software for no reason!
1 Realistic mixer please....2 faders,crossfader...lets go!👍
It's 2023 and I'm watching this... My Rane 68 was very expensive when I first got it. Now it's just a regular mixer, I can't reassign midi control buttons etc with new Reloop FLUX hardware connected. It's truly a a regular mixer/paperweight now. My Behringer DDM4000 is class compliant but is a nightmare to setup with the memorization of buttons so I'm forced to return my NEW ReLoop FLUX Serato box and swap it for a Numark Scratch Mixer. Go figure!
Good to know.
One of the nice things about class compliant gear is that mobile devices can make use of them as well. I can use an old Behringer U-Control 202 with my iPhone for streaming and it works great (so long as you follow the order of operations).
Very true
@Cleveland Terry thank you for doing this video. Where is the best place to check to ensure hardware is class compliant?
TL;DR watch out for Macs with a T2 chip: USB audio interfaces will “skip” and those interfaces aren’t stable especially on macOS Catalina.
Great video! That’s why I generally like class-compliant devices and also like having my DVS device separate (like the Denon DS-1) from my mixer. However, the newer Macs with a T2 chip process audio through the T2. Even with class compliance, there is a bug somewhere (AppleUSBAudio, Core Audio, AVFoundation framework) that causes audio to “skip.” The audio engine “pauses” because of “overload.”
Anyone with a Rane 70 or a Reloop Elite and a MacBook with T2 having “skipping” issues?
Great point, thank you for sharing I appreciate 🙏 that happened to me with the 57sl.
Do you know if the Ddj sz2 is class compliant?
@clevelandterry Quick question? Do you know is the DDJ-SZ2 class compliant?
It's a crazy thing... This thing called obsolescence.... Up until week ago, here now 4 months into 2021 - I was trying to find a way make sense of buying an Allen and Heath Xone 92 an analog mixer ...just many for being known for a club standard back in the day but if I want to do DVS? I need the SL3 or SL5 serato box...but man...it scared me that those devices are old too...I didn't want to go too deep with old hardware and end of with obsolescence. All DJ things going the way of Apple, and it is not cool!
I use my 57 when i spin vinyl, also i still have one laptop that still has osx 10.10 & scratch live 2.5 on it. I have not brought another serato mixer since. They are just too much money. I just bought 2 controllers for the price of 1 of the mixers
real talk its the beauty of you not being sponsored by this dj companies
feeling very out of date with my ttm56s but also I never had to think about anything. Put on a 12" and it works. Now I'm afraid to buy anything new... ALSO DAMN ARE THESE THINGS EXPENSIVE!!!
Hey so , I’m looking to buy a mixer where I can use both serato and vinyl and still use the sound effects from the mixer to use with vinyl . But also just for bedroom use or mobile use or small bars . I always loved the s9 but brand new is still to expensive. My budget is between $500 - 900. I found a couple of used rane 62 for 600 or 700 bucks but I also found a used S9 for 900 bucks . I use serato but only use serato lite , my Mac book needs to be updated to use pro . But I wana use it right now for mostly vinyl . What do you guys recommended?
Excellent video, I had no idea about all of this stuff!
Man, good video. I truthfully hadn't even considered this as an issue but now it makes me think. For example the youngest midi mixer I own is the Mixers duo 2 and my others are a pioneer djm t-1 and Traktor Z2. Both relatively old by today's standards. All of these I'm assuming are not class compliant as they need updated drivers. I'm an admitted gear hoarder and hate selling equipment but maybe I should sell these off before they're no longer usable as software advances...
Thanks a lot man! I’m think about getting the Reloop elite setup? but I would really want to know you opinion. Thanks.
DJ Dern reloop is class compliant
You can find a DJM-850 for $700 or a DJM-900NXS in good condition for $900. They both work with Serato with no drivers. The 900 isn't the cheapest thing ever, but it's something to keep in mind before you get something with major drawbacks. They're always available on eBay. It still gets updates, I still see them in clubs, it has LAN if you ever get CDJs, and it has working drivers to send the 24-bit USB digital audio output straight into Audacity or OBS or whatever. They last forever. I don't even think the NXS2 is a real improvement. If I ever sold mine it would probably be to get a V10, and that's not happening anytime soon.
I have a Rane Sixty Two and I love this mixer. Works very well with my older 2009 Macbook Pro. Hopefully I wont have to upgrade to the Rane Seventy or the Seventy Two
I’ve actually got the rane 57sl and my MacBook Pro 2010 model upgraded to Sierra(highest it can go) and BOOM, 57sl stopped working.. had to play with it a LOT it works only when I power down and restart the computer.. thinking about grabbing a sixty two, with a denon ds1 and pioneer xp2 just to upgrade the whole thing for a while.. and that would still be cheaper than getting a 72
I just recently discovered this issue, wanted to use a new win 10 laptop with my 62 and rane can't give us a working driver, they only have a beta driver, whole bunch of pissed off people in the rane forum about this. I still use my win 7 laptop with my 62 and it works fine. I'm now looking into getting a 70, but i'm just cheap.
HI! How can we identify if a mixer is class compliant or not? I use Windows 10 and I'm interested in either a Reloop Elite or a Mixars Duo MK2! Thanks :))
Hey Terry, I just got a numark scratch for light weight and portable used. What do you think about those type of mixers
louie aranda I haven’t used ire yet but it looks great.
Numark Scratch is class compliant for Mac
So class compliance does eliminate breakages between OS updates, and yes non class compliance can be used to force obsolescence. However, there is an argument for developing ur own driver - if the OS update breaks anything in the OS audio driver, now the hardware manufacturer has to work with the OS developers to solve the problem. You might think never happens but it does. The Traktor Kontrol Z2 is class compliant... but a few years ago, I used to experience audio dropouts on MacOS. As it turns out, Native Instruments claimed the bug was in the OS itself...i.e. coreaudio driver. It took at least a year for this to be fixed. When you have ur own driver, u have more control of such issues. The truth is the decision u make for driving the hardware can introduce dependence or reduce it, at the expense of convenience, it's not only the money making aspect that is in play here.
thats the same problem I have on Traktor s4 mk1 when I switch from win 7 to win 10 . Starts to have crossfader and no cue volume issues. Very sad 😞
Will the rane 62 & rane twelve work with a Mac air running the Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5 & Scratch Live ?
This is some real talk.
Even thou it limits my options... for the past three years i have ONLY purchased hardware that was class complient. And my life has been so much easier. That last case was a Reloop Elite. My reason? Good DJ hardware is expensive, i dont buy it for a year or two i buy them for a long timeeeeee. Plus It wouldnt the first time a controller that needed a driver has... done something funny during a session... With a class complient hardware that is sooo much harder.
I still remember when i bought my TT57SL and it was sold as being future proof, robust, long lasting it was out of date within a few years was so disappointed
Did you hear the Pioneer factory burned down?
denon dj product 10 years old are great but give problems with the newest wasapi drivers.....why? the old asio drivers where fine but they are not supported anymore
I literally just picked up a 62 second had last week unaware of the Catalina issue. Driver updated when I plugged it in but can't access the audio control panel to update mixer firmware and adjust additional settings. Kinda frustrating. Program seems to work fine otherwise.
Yup, the control panel issue is the “To a point” statement that I made.
Thanks for the great vid!!! I'm keeping minds for a piece of Art!!! lol!
On the Windows side the driver issue is not as serious, now on a Mac OMFG! I've come to terms that my "Live performing" Mac I just have to run older versions of MacOS and it's actually ok since that particular laptop is strictly for Live mixing so as long as Serato DJ itself runs I'm cool
So if I were to buy a used Rane Sixtytwo. What laptop would I need to get for it to work?
Please don’t buy a sixty two. It’s not supported anymore.
I grew up DJing since 1994. When I first got my hands on the raneTTM 57SL I was in heaven with my new MacBook 13 inch. The day I was informed that there would no longer be support for my mixer I vowed never to buy another piece of DJ equipment that was combined with a company such as serato. Since then I have seen a tremendous amount of equipment come in carrying the Serato name that is outdated. I have Family that have used turntables since before I was born and still use to this day with absolutely no issues and no computers. The next piece of hardware I will buy will be the prime 2 or prime 4. Standalone, USB ports to access my music, I can take the damn thing anywhere I want and plug it in and it will play. It makes no sense to have to buy a computer to play music. Do you need a computer for your guitar, saxophone, drum set? These companies should be providing quality, not junk.
Unkle D excellent point pal!
Now, this convinced me that stand alone's have their place. Well, not for me; I'm still happy with Win7, Dell Lap's, VDJ, all day and, I own TT-les and CTRL-ers that all work in the latest VDJ. For me the most important is WHAT SHE SAID!
ua-cam.com/video/yd8jh9QYfEs/v-deo.html
so what would be your suggestion for some one who is in the market for a mixer?
More DJs are going to move towards stand alone systems...
djseasickbaby bruh yea, no need to use computers
That’s why I just went the Prime 4 route..... Class Compliant and no need for anymore laptops. FUTURE PROOF!!!!!
Well it’s future resistant. Nothing is future proof.
Cleveland Terry Your right.... it’s future resistant, nothing is future proof.
Update to my last reply: After going through three (3) broken Prime 4’s with a 4th replacement in transit I’m done with Denon. Back to my trusty pre-InMusic TTM57 sl with SL3 and 1200s that have never failed. Yes it’s old but again it’s never failed opposed to three (3) broken prime 4’s with under 30 days of ownership.
Pisses me off my Rane 64 is upgraded for Mojave but not sure on catalina. Worse thing is ai have a imac pro 2019 $6k and I haven’t updated yet from Mojave... Rane i been with for over 20 years 8 mixers all that $$$ and why they don’t update. I know that there is a way to correct the Rane preference pane. But with Catalina would it work as well.
Im seeing so clearly now 👍
So is this only a Mac thing? Thank God I left Mac years ago for windows. I can still use 10 year old perfectly good hardware on my windows laptops.
Since the Rane 70/72 are class compliant, does that mean they will be good forever technically?
Technically yes
Wow always blessing us tru facts iam listening taking notes make conqence decision of gear for now and down the road.👏🙏🙌👈👉👍👊✌
Numark Scratch...?? Your thoughts....??
illamax This is one I want to know about as well. Is the numark scratch class compliant?
Yes you should anything else will have support droped sooner or later. Vestax controllers are still working with most recent serato but decade old mixer somehow is "too old". Also 1 out of 2 mixers released same day still works with recent serato. The other one has 2 never updated models from range so go and figure it out. They could do a driver for each and every one of these mixers as long as they are usb 2 compatible. But they won't to make you buy new one
Are you answering the question before watching the video? 😂
@@ClevelandTerry yes but I'm watching to the end. Nice work brother
remember when the most you had to worry about was decent needles and clean faders.Some djs would have two or three mixers and maybe four Technics if they were doing well and may have had that their whole career .They didnt need to be programmers to do a gig and they relied on machines built for the job they did.Lets face it few computers are really up to the job of modern djing and unlike Technics and certain mixers they will only last about three to four years if your lucky and will go full tilt for two and a half again if your lucky.Modern mixers and controllers had the issue that eventually they were obsolete because computers constantly upgrade as does the software.Though its heavy and it has limitations .Vinyl does not crash .Your vinyl wont up and vanish from your crate like it has done on on a hard drive and as long as you are using good needles and you look after your vinyl it wont suddenly decide not to play.I use Serato with time coded cds or vinyl but i always wonder if tonight is going to be the night when nothing works even though i have a new high end Mac book pro but also to make sure i can do things how i want i have to buy a very expensive computer that will never last as long as my vinyl collection and a couple of decks and analogue mixer back in the day that would not leave me broke.I cant continue to spend two grand on a machine that has such a short lifespan and that would make mixers last less long then that because of software upgrades .I know we cant go back but it all seems a bit wasteful .I like what the new technology has done for djing with video mixing easier access to production and more creative mixing possibilities but i hope there will be regulations to ensure that one can still open up computers and get them fixed by people other than the makers so that there is not so much waste of material.Sorry i went on an old dj rant.
You are 100% correct. To this day I don't do a gig even if its a wedding or house party without at least a solid hour or two backup on vinyl. The number of times I've had to pull out a quick impromptu vinyl set cos the other DJ computer has crashed/ Serato crashed/ hard drive not working etc...
An yea I'm one of those cats that has four 1200s and I bought em cos I know that it covers me for the whole career.
So true
you hit the nail on the head, it's called designed obsolence and all manufacturers do it...all!
I have a Denon DN-X1600 that I love so much and it is a class compliant mixer. Despite of that fact, the soundcard is practically useless now from Mac OS Sierra and above. I am really disappointed with all these tech around and not supporting perfectly operational legacy equipment. Back in the days, you would look forward to an update with your OS because it would improve the usability of your hardware. Now it’s completely the opposite. ☹️
Agreed.
Is the rane sixty eight mixer a class compliant
It's 2020 shelter in place and I'm still on my Rane62
Nothing wrong with that.
Does Rane 62 work on Windows 10? Thanks