Is the Navy Requiring the Battleship To Be Drydocked So It Can Be Reactivated?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- In the second episode of our series on drydocking Battleship New Jersey, we're answering the question as to why the ship has to go to drydock.
For the playlist of other videos in this series:
• Drydocking New Jersey
To support the battleship's efforts to drydock, go to:
63691.blackbau...
For the most recent updates to the project, go to:
www.battleship...
During my US Navy service, I was crew while mothballing two ships. It's a several month long process. There's so many little things that have to be done to preserve the ship while she's not crewed. Everything not bolted down gets catalogued and stowed- either on the ship or elsewhere. Everything gets painted. All of the pipes and penetration points in the decks and bulkheads are sealed. All of the ships systems are systematically and carefully shut down and then also sealed and preserved. In my own experience, how a ship is mothballed is the same regardless of the ship's eventual fate. My first one, USS Henry B, Wilson DDG 7, ended up as a target ship while the second, USS Barbey FF1088, was sold to Taiwan. Both got the same treatment.
A good book to read would be Six Frigates, the process is the same to preserve a warship or in that case, the fleet. As I understand it...yeah... the mothballs can be called out but need major retrofits. The BBs, that would be a several year project. It would be cheaper to rebuild one.
That being said, quite a few times, I parked my van near Intrepid and Kitty hawk, drinking and thinking to myself, man...these are cool warships. They are quite massive.
@VintageCarHistory - Interesting comments. I was on the BARBEY from 1979-81. Was on her in 1980 when she went to I.O. during Desert One.
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist9
what the heck does that have to do with dry docking a ship?
I personally am not interested in anyone's religious beliefs.
@@paulacornelison243 Well, sailors do the drydocking, and we're known to be a bit foul-mouthed. Maybe that's where he was going with this?
@@paulacornelison243 That one has been copy/pasted
all over the comment-section of this vid.
Already reported 2-3 as spam.
They expect you to take care of them so they don't have to step in and scrap them. So in that way i guess its a soft yes.
more to it than that, like he said
@@ryder6070 I haven't watched it yet
It would be a tragedy to scrap New Jersey. She’s a magnificent old warrior of the type that they literally do not make anymore. She deserves a dignified retirement with the option of someday answering the call if she’s needed again. Just because she’s old doesn’t mean she’s weak.
@@AnIdiotsLantern
Yep.
And all that pre isotope steel would be worth a fortune on today's market.
@@dukecraig2402 and the people who would buy the scrapped steel don’t want to pay that much!
The Black Dragon’s armored scales protect her even now.
I wonder if the near disasters with Texas and The Sullivans has given the public at large some exposure to the maintenance needs of museum ships (including the need for dry docking)and facilitated some of the funding for New Jersey to get her dry docking?
@repentandbelieveinJesusChrist9 Boy, You sure get a lot of mileage
out of Copy/pasting that one into every comment here.
Bad news - You're not bringing anyone to Jebus with that stuff.
All you do is create ill-will towards other Christians.
Yeah, those should be prime examples of why a museum ship needs to be drydocked periodically.
while it is tragic what happened with Texas to get her in the state pre-drydock but to be fair she was turned a museum just after the war and back then nobody knew or expected the extent needed to keep her shiny and the public wasnt all that into it afaik. That only started gettin traction in the early 60s, which is why its sad that Big E just barely missed the start..
Intrepid too. Remember, it was a whole big to-do to get her unstuck from her old silted up berth.
@@HauntedXXXPancakeexactly
It would be cool to see a video on what youd need to do to prep the ship for tow but from a museum/artifacts standpoint. Ie what happens to the exhibits, all the stuff youve found.. does it stay on the ship packed up or are you going to offload it?
My guess is that the vast majority of the displays will stay in place. Maybe the rooms holding the educational displays might be hermetically sealed to keep out dust and paint mist while in drydock.
I would second that motion. Also what they would need to do once New Jersey comes home again.
Generally items that are on the ship at the time of turnover do remain on the ship, as anything of real value has probably already been removed by the navy as part of the deactivation process. A side point: As the ships remain the property of the navy, they have the option of coming on board and removing an item that may be required for service elsewhere in the fleet. Some items are ageless and the exact same model and style may still be in use on a recently commissioned ship. For example, I remember on the Midway right after it reached San Diego back in 2004, that the navy recovered a critical valve part for use on the USS Reagan.
@@olgringo-421 I was talking about the exhibits and other things the museum has put on the ship and what has to happen before they can tow her for drydock... not what the Navy removes before she became a museum.
@@PixelmechanicYYZ They might want to look into renting a warehouse or similar space near by, to setup a temporary museum/exhibit of some sort while the ship itself isn't avalible.
Suggestion for the museum store: Take some of that teak and have Battleship New Jersey commemorative grip scales made for 1911 type pistols and sell them in the store for a fair price. Battleship Texas just did that and sold out of them in a day. I would buy a set or two....or more.
I'm amazed they don't sell ball caps at the New Jersey store.
Those are very popular! I would get one. I have a few for aircraft carriers and plan on getting more for a few museum ships and ships that have been scrapped. I got a cap for Kitty Hawk and that ship is over half-scrapped now...
There's huge difference in gun culture between Texas and New Jersey.
@@michaelsommers2356it’s a giant battleship strapped with guns, I’m sure a lot of the people that would go see the ship might be interested in pistol grips lmao
Id totally buy teak grips for my 1911
@@TheSuperDerpas a new jerseyian I can confirm that this state sucks but many still carry here.
Is there anyway to get a tour of the underbelly while it's in dry dock? I think that would be super cool to see the hull and props, and underwater equipment.
I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to bet that the bronze screws were removed before New Jersey was handed over. Those things are just too valuable to be allowed to decay under water where almost no one would see them.
I could be wrong and New Jersey may still have her screws, but I'd be surprised.
@@oldsguy354doubt the screws are there, if they are, someoune forgot to remove them.
@@oldsguy354 yeah they were removed, I went back and watched a video about the shafts and he said in that video they were removed before being turned over.
@@oldsguy354he said in a video last May that all 4 Iowa class battleships including New Jersey still have there screws installed
@@oldsguy354 Those are AL Bronze. They don't decay under water, nor will barnacles or algae grow on them.
While it is silly that people think that the battleships are being returned to active service, it is also really telling on how much the public loves these ships. The idea of New Jersey returning to active duty is a romantic fantasy, a declaration that we don't want the history of these ships to be yet over, that we want to live in a world where they still an active and important part of our National Culture. It is kind of like wanting to see a star athlete come out of retirement one last time, for one last winning game.
Though we should probably remind ourselves that if the New Jersey returns to service, it means that things have gone so sideways, that there might not be an America left to defend for very much longer.
You don't need battleships in active service, supercarriers in 2020s are what battleships were in 1940s: expensive anachronism that's going to get a lot of people killed in the next war.
You can tell the drydocking isn't for reactivation because it's $10M not $10B.
Your vid provides a clear and compelling explanation of and rationale for the importance of museum battleships in recruitment and military support. You serve as an excellent Ambassador - THANK YOU ‼️
Thank you for diving head-first into making these videos and sharing your museum and your passion! I've loved watching you and your entire media get better and better every year.
One detail that's come up in a number of videos, most recently the review of the engineering spaces, has been the sea chests. I'm hoping while in dry-dock you can take us around her hull and show us how the different sizes and types of sea chests are laid out, protected, and utilized.
Agreed !:-)
At the moment, with 168K subs, if each one donated $30 you would have your money.
I could see how the conspiracy theory would arise that the ship was going to drydock for reactivation by the Navy. The navy has a ship shortage and the last time she was reactivated was because of a ship shortage.
on the one hand, sure, on the other hand, it aint exactly a modern ship, even with the 80s retrofits. nearly useless in war in 2023.
@@UnshavenStatue Probably not totally useless now the DDG1000s don't have ammo.
If you thought you needed naval gunfire support - e.g. for a was in the Pacific around island chains.Not sure of the state of ammo stores.
Ryan sitting in his office still being the curator of the ship while she is underway and lobbing shells at an enemy island. “This week on the New Jersey, we are earning another Battle Star!”
@@UnshavenStatue Never say useless. Many weapon systems in the military have been dubbed obsolete over the years only to make a comeback when a need would arise where they would be of use. The A-10 Warthog, the Iowas, the Sheridan Tank, M72A2 LAW rocket system, etc.
@@kman-mi7su even the Maxim is still in use lol
The only thing(s) that are REQUIRED to be removed from a Navy vessel when going into drydock are fuel (to a lighter) and ammunition (to a Naval Magazine for security.) Was on a DER in New Zealand (Operation Deepfreeze 1968)when we cracked a fuel tank. Had no place to store fuel and ammo, so went on the blocks in Port Chalmers with fuel and ammo. Had to get permission from Washington to do it. Smoking lamp was out 24/7 until we undocked. Had to go off the ship to smoke.
Interestingly, a lot of ships still have fuel on them. And finding amount on board is more common than you'd think. We're lucky to not have either. But it's not standard.
Stuck in Port Chalmers in the 60s would have been pretty dire. It's not exactly know for its bustling social scene, even today. At least the six o'clock swill had ended the previous year, though. I hope you were able to get a few bus rides into Dunedin.
@@BattleshipNewJersey would it be partly because the fuel acts as a preservative, since it is a petroleum product? Better to not have the tank rust from the inside out after all.
@@hummerskickass I believe that was tried with the Texas but it actually made things worse from what I recall
Wouldn't it be wonderful if museum ships could be classified as national historic landmarks like buildings and battlefields and other places important to our country's history? Then the national Park service or another organization of the government could step in and with federal funding help preserve these ships. The public donations and volunteers do a wonderful job but if the government would recognize that these are artifacts and battlefields and historic scenes of our history, they could be preserved better!
Man, I can remember when it was docked across the river prior to the berthing now. I was driving 18 wheelers at the time and was in Philly 2xs a week. I’m lucky to live in NC and have the North Carolina only 2 hours away. Much love and hoping you guys can get her a slot soon. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🤙🤙
Actually that's a simple question to answer. Navy regulations state that even if the ship has been decommissioned and stricken from a register if it is turned into a museum ship and must be kept up into proper condition first safety standards and preservation........
If the minimum regulations are not met on a decommissioned museum vessel the Navy has the right to take the vessel back and either scrap our sink it as a reef..........
If it rains while you are DRY dock do you get a discount or extra warranty?
They get a free bilge leak test.....by filling up the bilge with said rainwater 😂😂😂
This Ol' girl made it all the way, she dodged the scrap yard and the target line. She deserves a little sprucing up and a nice retirement as a museum ship that we can all enjoy and be proud of.
I wish somebody had thought that way when the USS Enterprise and the USS Nevada were being "disposed of" after serving so gallantly during WWII. Instead, we get a ship that had NO history with Pearl Harbor sitting at a berth there that SHOULD have gone to one of those historic ships and THAT ship used for target practice or scrapped!
@@richardcline1337 You do realize why Missouri is there, right? It did serve a role coming full circle from Pearl Harbor.
@@glennac, NOTHING can ever justify, to me, the placing of the Missouri in a berth that SHOULD HAVE gone to two ships that deserved that berth but got a crappy end from the Navy that they served so diligently. The Missouri should have been berthed somewhere else if they wanted to keep it, but NOT at Pearl Harbor.
@@glennacThe significance of Missouri standing guard over Arizona is lost on this rube. Beginning and End, and all that. He doesn't get it.
The fact that anyone would believe that a 81yr old ship would be brought back into service is beyond me. It would cost more to refit it than to build a new modern ship
If there was any logical reason or need for a battleship, it would actually be faster and cheaper to bring an Iowa back to service than to build a new ship that matches or exceeds it's capabilities. The 81 year old ship is the newest of it's type and they would have to start from scratch designing a ship. I would expect it to take a good 10 years or more from the time the Navy decided it needed a battle ship until it had a new one. It would likely be more cost effective and a better use of time to reactivate at least one of the old battleships in order to start training personal while a new ship was being constructed as well. Best I can estimate, adjusting for inflation, it would cost about a billion dollars to reactivate NJ, and about 3 billion to build a new battleship... Plus the cost of actually designing it and building facilities to make the armor. Figure another 3-5 billion. Unless it gets clusterfucked like the F35, then it could cost 50 billion easy and take 30 years to build :P.
All that said, barring some alien attack that wipes out all modern ships or some new super weapon that armor actually becomes useful against, there is no reason that actually makes sense as to why we would need a battle ship when mass produced guided missiles can do the same job, better and cheaper, if we needed that kind of firepower.
Ukraine show that the future of naval battle is the opposite of large battleships: small drone boats.
You could return all the remaining Iowa's for less than 1 Gerald Ford class carrier costs us. That's without their air wing, fuel&ordnance, staffing costs, escort vessels etc. Nothing shows the flag like a BB and nothing would remind America's enemies more than the U.S. refitting and commissioning the Iowa's again into active duty service. Afterall Japan surrendered on the decks of the mighty mo. 👍🏻😎
It may be costly for refitting but faster in battle readiness than building a new ship if there’s an epic war
@@tellyboy17Ukraine isn't on the ocean though.
I saw that the manual cited was a department of the interior publication. Just so I understand, while the ship ultimately remains the property of the DOD / Navy, as a museum, does care and maintenance guidelines fall to the DOI?
Interesting if so. I’d have thought the DOD / Navy would have the best knowledge of naval vessel preservation.
Ryan, you and the museum are doing a great job. I’ve been to the uss Iowa here in California. When I can get back in your area, I am looking forward to seeing your ship.
She's on the National Register of Historic Places, which is maintained by NPS, which is under the Department of the Interior, and there are regs that have to be followed when changing boundaries to or moving places on the Register. Since she's going into drydock, she'll be moving, so there's paperwork involved in ensuring that the appropriate authorities are aware and approve.
@@erikawhelan4673 thank you Erika. That makes sense.
Your channel has a wide reach, as a Canadian even I am donating to your dry dock fund as these Battleships are an amazing part of history. I have to say one of the highlights of my life was meeting members of the Pearl Harbour Survivors Group back in 1992 when they were doing a road trip to Alaska to celebrate the 50th Anniversary of the WW2 constructed Alcan highway.
I was in Port Weller dry dock when HMCS Haida was brought in. Some of the plates were so thin it’s a wonder that she made it across Lake Ontario without sinking.
@@Sherwoody Back when kids still read books I read the paperback about HMCS Haida but have never seen the ship in person. Touring the Sackville a few years ago was a pretty amazing experience however.
@@squangan I’ve been aboard her when she was moored in Toronto and in dry dock. I actually went under her and saw the repairs being made to the hull. What was interesting was that HMCS Halifax (FFH 330) was also there and it was nice to compare the difference of a half a century in a warship.
So they cannot be commandeered in case of an Alien Invastion.
What are you planning on focusing on when the ship is in dry dock?
Is there going to be a tour of the ship when it is in dry dock. Like the Battleship Texas BB-35?
Are you going to take things off the ship like some of the guns, that will make it lighter?
As much waste/graft there is in the federal budget, $5 to 10 million to preserve such important artifacts from our history is a tiny drop in the bucket.
The Navy maintains a mothball fleet at all times. When I was in A school at Philly in '86 my buddy and I walked down to the ships in that area. At that time the New Jersey was one of the many ships there mothballed. As I recall at that time the US had the largest Navy in the world and it also boasted the world's 3rd largest Navy being our mothball fleet in and of itself. Good Times with Ronald.
I would guess the Navy wants it drydocked to ensure t is cared for and doesn't sink. It would be a sad legacy to have these great warships sitting sunk at the pier. It would look like the Russian Great Northern Fleet. WIth is a visual display of the the not-greatness of the Soviet Union...
You have to assume that if the Navy ever _did_ reactivate one of these ships, the first thing they would have to do is throw her into drydock _anyway_ to do the ginormous amount of work required to make her actually... well... _work_ again, just like they had to do all the _other_ times they reactivated them. Making the museum organization do it with their own money beforehand seems like a skinflint move even by modern government standards. :)
Also, does that table Ryan is sitting at have a backgammon board printed on it?
Absolutely does...and that makes me miss my Navy wife, who almost always beat me soundly at backgammon...
...I miss her more because she also taught me cribbage well enough to (eventually) beat her almost as often as she beat me...
The Iowa class would be a major Deterrent to all the close ship ramming we see these days. Bring them back! would you ram a Iowa Class Battleship naww man you sure would not!
Something that I find interesting is the type of paint used on naval vessels. More toxic paints bond better, and inhibit marine growth. But release lead or arsenic into the water. So paints using less of these materials will last shorter but are better for the ocean around them.
I believe some organic zinc based paints are a mix of these properties and are some of the best of both, but hopefully some new paints will come out in the near future that will allow for minimum corrosion and environmental hazards.
Don't believe all you hear in that regard. As a Marine Ecologist I can categorically tell you that some of the modern paints used on ships are not much better than the old toxic paints. The problem is not just in what those paints contain, but how they work. Most work by shedding, that shedding removes any nascent marine growth. Problem is that now means you have a whole bunch of new particulates in the water column, many of which have proven to be highly damaging to marine life even if they are not strictly speaking toxic....
While some more modern paints are better, they are also expensive, so most people do not use them.
@@alganhar1 I figured they are still used, but I thought the US/Canada and most European countries don’t use them anymore. If they do, that would be worse than the old lead paints, at least those don’t leach lead into the water column and keep it on the boat
@@alganhar1me and my bussiness partner invented a paint that only sheds pure fish food and candy cane. It could have solve all pollution problems however big paint killed my bussiness partner with a helicopter sabotage and I'm in hiding because they need to keep the money train going. It's truly tragic.
Initial thoughts: “No, that’s a bit silly, but I’d watch a 2hr video talking about it!”
Hope the USS NJ is in better shape than the Scan, Pride & Luce (think I remember the names) were back in 1990-91. These 3 were reserve fleet cargo ships which were supposed to be ready for service after a 30 day service at a shipyard. One or more of these went to the Philly Naval Shipyard (PNSY). Problem 1 was the engine rooms and piping were just covered with asbestos. Well if I remember correctly (I was there) PNSY eventually got them ready but long after they were needed for the 1990-91 Gulf War.
If the other three Iowas get called into drydock, then I will really begin to wonder what's up. :)
So it doesn't sink at the mooring site.
That doesn't explain The Sullivans.
If it were actually a contract requirement shouldn't Texas have been required to go into drydock years ago?
@@ghost307Im sure the staff with the Texas would’ve loved to dry dock her years ago, but they didn’t have the funds. Also, since she was donated shortly after the war and one of the first donated museum ships, her contract with the navy is bare bones compared to the Iowas. The Home Port Alliances’s contract with the Navy says they are to “Maintain the Vessel in a condition satisfactory to the Secretary of the Navy in such a manner that it will not cast discredit upon the Navy or upon the proud tradition of the Vessel, and will not allow the vessel to become a menace to navigation. public health or satety.”[2(e)] and “At its own expense, without reimbursement or contribution by the Govemment, protect, preserve and maintain the Vessel, including the hull, machinery, and appurtenances in a good state of repair and preservation in accordance with sound marine maintenance practice. The Donee shall acquire. maintain, and use cathodic protection and dehumidification systems aboard
the vessel”[2(f)]. You can read it here drive.google.com/file/d/1vGqN-jlhcmPtYTR09_ihBHJ-FeZWL3ak/view
Yay! New Jersey all the way! Everyone dig deep and donate as much and as often as you can 😃😃😃
awesome.. we would train, on ships in the moth ball fleet in Virginai, for ship boarding and take down etc.. those ships serve as huge training platforms, especially for non live fire , shipbaord recovery procedures , that as Marines, we had to train for in the 90s. keep those ships alive, a wonderful part of our history, I love to see you making these videos..I wish you success!!
I appreciate these videos. I have a question. When a crew on a ship like NJ is ordered to “battle stations” does the entire crew respond at the same time? In other words, if there are 2000 crewmen, does each crewman have a unique battle station to report to? Or are battle stations maned in rotations? What’s happening during such times? Thanks
don't know for sure if it's mandatory to report to station , but who is going to lay in the bunk if being attacked?
battle stations means everyone on board goes to work, I don't think large battleships are any different but I imagine it would be hard to take a rest while the ship is being shelled lol
And what exactly is a ship cooks battle station? Probably to continue duties as usual? Battles can last a long time so you have to make sure there's food.
Yes they do. It could be in the Goat’s den to be a dressing station.but the biggest thing when it comes to battleships or vessels that their primary armament is large naval artillery the primary battle station will be feeding, aiming, & firing the guns. Along with keeping the ship afloat
Yes.
Not returning to service? I am shocked the Navy is passing on a mind bogglingly expensive project that would result in a high maintenance vessel that does meet their current needs. Did they actually learn from the Littoral Combat Ship disaster?
If the ships are so important to the navy, the navy should help pay for them. Even with partial state funding it’s still a lot of money that you’re expected to find otherwise.
With a budget in the trillions funding all kinds of nonsense, you'd think Congress could throw a billion at the museum ships now and then. But that doesn't provide them with any opportunities for kickbacks and insider trading, so it won't happen.
@@zeedub8560 Kick backs and insider trading....in our Congress? Certainly you jest....
just a thought just flashed through my mind.... imagine, when she's underway heading for dry dock, with Ryan on the bridge as Acting CO of the battleship!
Thank you for your hard work Ryan.
I hope there are plenty of 4k 60fps cameras set up to catch New Jersey "moving" under tow.
I still would like to see the boilers and steam systems refit so they could be reactivated and used, but I know the Navy says no and it would be *massively* expensive to do so (personnel, maintenance, safety, etc...)
I wonder if the fuel oil burners could be removed and replaced with modern marine Diesel engines while preserving the steam system and turbines
@@shockwave6213it could be done during a dry docking, would have to cut into the hull from the top, and replace everything
Not to mention boilers can become bombs if they are not properly respected and understood.
Ever seen the pictures of steam train engines blown out? That shit's crazy
@@shockwave6213Then factor in the staggering pressures used in an Iowa-class powerplant being more than twice what you'd find on a railway locomotive, and multiply that by trying to confine that incomprehensible amount of force in what's essentially a giant armored box.
I just wanna if she'll visible from the i95 bridge right there behind the shop yard i deliver to southeast Philly often.
Let me guess people are still dreaming that these ships are actually going to be used again?
I hear they keep just enough fuel and ammo on board to be able to defeat a small alien invasion. Or North Korea, whichever need may arise.
I wish but unfortunately it’s obsolete and so old that a full restoration to a combat-ready state would cost just as much as building a new ship
I feel like if the navy wanted the firepower of a battleship, they would use the British WW2 style monitors.
That would be great for a nostalgic cruises, and maybe have the guns prepared to fire blanks, as everyone says. Their range is totally inadequate compared to today's weapons.
That just my thoughts
that was the same thing that was said about Union Pacific's steam locomotive 4014 today it is in pristine operating condition and roams the rails. never say never.
Take care of her Symanski.....they’re coming back for her!
Are you planning on doing any videos of the renovations. Like new decking installation? Would be incredibly interesting.
Out of curiosity would the US navy allow a private US citizen to buy an Iowa? Would the Navy allow the private owner, at their own expensive, to refit and modernize the ship?
I've wondered this exact thing? We have 6 us billionaires who combined have a net worth nearing $1,000,000,000,000
Could we convince Elon to pick up the tab on one then gates, bezos, and maybe Buffett?
Once that's done we get other billionaires to fund bringing back the other smaller BB's like bama tx and showboat. 👍🏻😀
I know you have visited the USS Texas while she is currently in dry dock. I believe it has been 35 years since she was last dry docked. Was there anything that you found while visiting her that has helped your plan? I know part of her issues were related to the lack of preparation by the Navy when she was donated to the State of Texas in 1948 but had not been prepared for preservation like some of the more modern preparations the Navy does for inactive ships.
"making ships from Steel is a wild idea, but somehow we make it work"
Uuuuhmmm Ryan.. Have you not heard of- MAKING SHIPS OF WOOD? Talk about wild ideas.
Here's a thought: There is practically no way that that the Navy would recommission the Iowas, mostly because of the old propulsion systems. But would they have a need for something else: the 16 inch gun batteries. During World War I, the British took extra large caliber gun turrets and made them into monitors. It was a fairly quick solution. Although there still are major questions about ship construction facilities in?the US. You don't need great slips for ships less than 500 feet long.
Let’s not forget you could crew 5-6 Burkes for the same compliment needed to fully crew New Jersey…. Don’t know about you but as cool as NJ is I’d rather have 6 Burkes in a shooting war.
Agreed. There is absolutely nothing of spare parts, all the powder , shells, ect. has been demobbed, and I doubt we have the manufacturing capacity for 16in shells anymore
Remember those monitors, and ours, were coastal ships and never meant for the open ocean.
@@jllucci We definitely have the capacity to make ammunition for the ship, but the question is how insane much of a sunk cost will it be. Like we could make new F1 engines from the Saturn V realistically, but it wouldn't really be worth while. Ultimately being held to NavSea's contract for the ship to be able to be reactivated does good in keeping the ship in the most reasonable shape for display
It’s much cheaper and quicker to dry dock these ships, could be for museum purposes. Could be to prep for combat. We’re about to enter a war… we need all the ships we can get.
OMG! Ryan is right. So many armchair admirals in the comments. 😅
For all the funding it would require to upgrade the BBs the Navy could build two destroyers each with more firepower than any BB ever had. Reality check folks. Todays Congress would never approve such an expenditure. 🙄
This makes me wonder if maybe I should reach out to our local museum ship, the USS Turner Joy, and see what'd be required for volunteering to dive on the ship for cleaning the hull. Seems like something our local scuba club would love to do.
Wow, the Tin Hat Brigade get their knickers in twist over every slight thing!! Why does the Navy require museum ships to be regularly drydocked? Exhibit A: USS Texas and the mass of rust and corrosion that were her torpedo bulges...
Museum ships need to be dry-docked, and maintained in general so these issues can be dealt with and these historical artefacts can continue to be preserved as memorials to those who gave their lives to protect their country!
Why does a car need regular maintenance? Why does a domestic boiler need regular inspections? Why do active ships need regular dry-docking? Because wear and tear due to use AND elements is a thing!!
Hey, me and my 8 year old boy are big fans of your channel. He was asking WHY the navy wouldn't want to reactivate a battleship, and I tried to explain that it's not really fit for fighting a modern war. The only thing I could see a battleship being used for in a modern war would be shore bombardment once air superiority was achieved. This led to the conversation of cost of cruise missile, smart bombs, dumb bombs, ect verses the cost of high explosive shells fired from the 16" guns. In that vein, my question is just how much would a HE round and the powder cost per shot? Apologies if this has been covered.
The power and ammo would be pretty much free. They are left over from WWII. They could create more advanced shells. Why not reactivate it.
1. The cost of refurbishing the equipment and powerplant would cost a fortune.
2. Cost of training. I doubt that anyone still on active duty knows how the steam plant and weapons are on the Iowas.
3. Lack of aviation spaces, lack of air defenses, and so on.
4. Lack of manpower. The military is short of people and the BBs take a lot of people to run.
The only thing that a BB would be good for is as you said shore bombardment. Maybe in the future when Hypersonics are going into service something like BB would make sense.. But only maybe.
There is nothing smart about giving away the American taxpayer's weapons to corrupt ukraine. America First!
@@DavidSiebert a number of those things are easier to rectify that you might think. New Jersey’s powerplant is in pretty good shape for what it is and is currently operational, but would require some maintenance before lighting it off again. Lack of air defenses can be rectified by adding more air defense, that’s the advantage of massive platforms like the Iowa. They have a lot of physical space to add new weapon systems, they already had four CWIS. You can get them operational, or replace them with rolling airframe launchers, and swap out some of the 5 inch mounts for additional antiaircraft capability. During the last reactivation of the Iowa’s the Navy saw a massive interest in people wanting to serve a board them. The chance to serve on a Battleship it’s self has the potential to act as a recruitment drive. I don’t think training would be that big of a problem since there are still quite a few veterans around who served on these ships and the information has been physically recorded(it’s not just knowledge kept by word of mouth). The time it spends in dry dock during the reactivation process can be used to train a lot the new crew so you don’t waste time.
I know the likelihood of the I was being reactivated is quite slim and China would have to do something incredibly stupid to have 16in guns turned on them, but it is still a possibility and not as insurmountable as many people might think.
@@hummerskickassThe big problem with those air defenses is a lack of a radar that's both powerful enough to be relevant in a modern conflict and shock-resistant enough to survive the concussion of a full 16-inch broadside. Remember, the Navy wanted to throw Sea Sparrows on the Iowas, but rather quickly discovered that they simply couldn't withstand the blast and vibration of the main battery. There's also the cost of manufacturing a whole new supply of shells, likely including guided and rocket-assisted variants, inspecting and potentially rebuilding the guns, and the single largest obstacle, crewing the ship. There's enough crew on a single Iowa to crew 5 or 6 Arleigh-Burkes, and I guarantee those Burkes will be a lot more valuable in a serious conflict.
Grrrr. Britain has the Victory (even if it has truncated masts) and Britain generally has a poor record of preserving great vessels. And of course there is the USS Constitution. I wonder what the average taxpayer/voter would say if the Constitution was poorly treated. All things considered, the costs are modest compared to losing part of a great legacy. The New Jersey and her sailors went through a thing called WWII. For goodness sake, she deserves more than speculations.
Tell us what you learned about dry docking a battleship after visiting the Battleship Texas in dry dock and how you will apply those lessons to the dry docking of the New Jersey. I know the Texas set the standard for pretty much everything since it was the first museum battleship.
Hi Ryan is there a minimum donation. I'm in the UK with terminal cancer. So obviously not loads of money flying around. But I would love to donate. I was army not navy but NJ is a link too when the UK an the US stood side by side against a huge evil. When we were Great Britain not so so Britain or the UK as we are now. There is only you guys left now really. But anyway if there is no minimum I will happily donate. I'd love to save enough to visit before my time is up. You are on my bucket list. Thanks for the fantastic work you do. If I'd joined the navy instead I'd not have taken the ied an probably not have this cancer now lol. 🤔
The Iowas are still highly effective military tools of recruitment even if they are not in the military anymore, preserving them as a symbol of power is important to the Navy.
Especially ships like Iowa, or even New Jersey which are located in areas without a significant Navy or military presence.
Can you make your content inclusive by formatting the auto captioning into closed captioning please? it is extremely hard to watch it relying only on the auto captioning sadly (I'm Profoundly Deaf)
Are there any plans for the museum’s pier side facility while New Jersey is in dry dock?
There are three sources for inaccurate information, weathermen, social media, and newsmen. Weathermen are the most accurate!
Ryan, the tin hatters will take any story and get it wrong.
Granted, it would be nice to see the Iowas back in service. Those 16 inch guns are weapons there is no defense for. Sadly, the day of the big gun seems to be over. If the weapon isn't stuffed full of all sorts of technology, the brass isn't interested. Smarter isn't always better. The brass needs to remember KISS. Keep It Simple Sailor!
The USS KIDD in Baton Rouge just announced that they too will be dry docking in New Orleans soon. They intend to keep the museum open as well. You should compare notes with your counterpart for the KIDD. Maybe the mutual exchange of information and ideas can benefit BOTH museums. Its a win-win!👍
Would there be dry dock tours of the ship?
TBH, an Iowa class is probably the only ship in existence that could withstand repeated hits from modern weapons minus a Nimitz or Ford. An Iowa could probably still keep up with a carrier group if it were mechanically sound. Yes, these ships are AARP members now, but I can dream.
It might survive a hit from a modern heavyweight ASM, but it would almost certainly be mission-killed and forced back to drydock anyway.
Yeah, as morbid as the topic is, it's still fascinating. You really think it would only take one hit to make it a mission kill?
@@Tankerpaul223 A P-700 Granit anti-ship missile carries a 1,700lbs warhead, plus whatever fuel is left when it hits at several times the speed of sound. If it hits the hull, it's going to cause structural damage similar to a torpedo hit, if not worse. If it hits the superstructure, you lose most, if not all of your sensors and fire control.
@@griffinfaulkner3514 so it wouldn't even have the same impact as the yamatos main 18" guns then per hit. 😀
Gee I wonder what the Iowa's we're designed to survive being hit by repeatedly? Oh yes that would be enemy 2,000# armor piercing&he shells traveling at 2-3,000fps. All while belting out her own 18,000#+broadside response of fury&steel through 9-16" 50cals.🤔
@@4literv6 The bursting charge on the Yamato's 460cm guns is 73lbs for the AP shell, 136 for HE. That's less than a _twentieth_ of the explosive mass of a Granit's warhead, and even the total weight of an AP shell is just under a fifth of the Granit. The impact of one of these missiles is closer to that of a torpedo strike against a ship that has no torpedo defense system. The only way to mitigate damage from one is to prevent the hit entirely. And no, a few Phalanx CIWS mounts are not enough to stop a hit, gun-based systems like that are always a last ditch, Hail Mary effort. They're nice to have, and in the Phalanx's case small and light enough to not compromise other systems, but the best defense is a fully integrated AA system like Aegis, with VLS-launched supersonic interceptors like the ESSM and Standard missile series.
A battleships job is to project power and work as artillery. Both jobs are taken by U.S carrier groups along with that age of ships make it hard to "retrofit" for modern combat and a more modern design built from the ground up will be more effective and cost efficient and wore more the investment long term. Not saying it wouldn't be cool but i doubt reactivation for any serious role, morale booster maybe. If at all
I was very fortunate I missed the draft by about 6 months I was in my senior in high school had register for the draft . I got called down to the counselor's office and told that they had ended the draft and that I could decide to a civilian or I can continue on my path going into the Air Force, and I did just that I spent four years happily in the Air Force in a Strategic Air Command which was the nuclear fighting arm Air force during the Cold War. Let's hope that you are able to get all the funding done asap. so the New Jersey can get the work done she needs sooner than later......
If the Navy wants to make sure that these ships reflect well on THEM, then THEY should contribute funding to major items like dry docking. Otherwise it’s just an unfunded mandate.
The answer to this question I bet will be a, Yes but actually no
And side note but the crew & Ryan at New Jersey, does anyone really know the damage done to iowas center gun???
Yes - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion#Explosion
Not just the center gun of Turret 2, the equipment from the gunhouse to the first projectile deck was pretty much trashed by the open breech explosion, subsequent fires, and subsequent explosions of propellant bags that were stacked up in violation of all the safety rules.
I was hoping more for the damages that happened, looking at pictures of the center gun form August 1995, it looks fine for the most part.
@@vixenraider1307 Well the gun is designed to withstand the propellant burning and the chamber pressures of pooping out a 2,700 lb projectile, so it would be hard to damage the gun to the point where it was obvious to the naked eye. There is a lot of equipment in a gun turret (I was in New Jersey's Turret 2 today as a matter of fact) that would not stand up to such an explosion. The bulkheads that separate the individual gunrooms were bulged, the rammer and feed tray were destroyed, most of the wiring, signaling, and switchgear would have been crisped, the hydraulics and electric deck would have been damaged by the explosion, then caught fire, and then contaminated with the seawater they used to fight the fires. And let's not forget the 47 souls.
The Iowa's youtube channel shows how it sits today. Half rebuilt when they stopped work.
How to preserve a battleship. Cosmoline. Lots and lots of cosmoline.
It's so sad to see condition of the Lightship Barnegat. If I had the means I'd buy her and do a total restoration. 😥
Right? Maybe there is a little bit of extra room in Philly Drydock 3 to squeeze her in at the same time. She is like a mile up river from USS NJ
@@kolt4d559 I grew up on Long Beach Island, and spent many Summer mornings heading out Barnegat Inlet with my father on his boat to go fishing. I never saw the lightship in service, she was long since retired, but I've seen photos. Her current state of disrepair is hard to look at. Wish we could do something to fix her up.
Hey thanks for 15mins of peace , it is rare to have a channel filled with info that isn't rudely interrupted every couple of minutes with senseless bombardment of advertising.
All Navy ships that are acting as museum ships, are largely still legally owned by the US Navy and since they are on loan by the Navy to a community for museum purposes it has to have maintenance done to maintain watertightness. If we end up in a serious world war, the idea is those museum ships could be recalled to active service. Thats the idea, the reality is if we need them on the front line you would need 24/7 full load of artificers to bring the ship to life again and it would still take 2-3 years to bring it to the line. So, after that... keeping it afloat so you don't embarrass the US Navy with it sinking. Those ships do represent the US Navy, letting it sink is not an option.
Great commentary. Our friends at the Academy and NAVSYSCOm have a full listing of what each ship needs. There still is over 300 16" rifles left over with a lot of rounds and gun powder. I'm retired Navy with good information. ONI always has direct data on all these ships. Remember, the old can become the new!
Press: *Announces drydock date in 2023*
Ryan: Yeah. I wish.
My daughter and I toured the Slater two weeks ago. She enjoyed getting up on the guns and cranking all the different cranks to see what parts moved. I enjoyed it too and I'm glad we went.
Slater is a good time. The volunteers are really into the ship.
Times and technology have changed, people.
Yes, the Iowas were reactivated several times. I served in the late 80s and early 90s, and Iowa and Wisconsin were homeported with us in Norfolk during my service. But the last time they reactivated them, what they wound up doing was making those big 16 inch guns secondary weapons. They were refitted with VLS Tomahawk missiles as their primary weapons.
Well guess what. I was on a Destroyer, and were were refitted with the SAME VLS system. The newer class of Destroyers, the Burkes, were built with that system. Technology changed to the point where there is just no gain in having huge battleships in order to house the most relevant weapons. The newer weapons are smaller, and more powerful than those big 16 inchers that gave the Battleships their place in the fleet.
While we all love them, for their history, heritage and awesome appearance, the modern Navy just has nothing to gain by bringing them back again.
Further, all of the other times they were brought back, they came back from the mothball fleet. Never before did they spend the incredible amount of money it takes to convert them into Museums, and do never before would the cost of converting them back be so high as it would from this configuration.
I am just an old Sailor. Nobody calls me to consult on such decisions. None the less, I promise you, the Iowas are not coming back to active service.
THOUGHT EXPERIMENT: If the Navy were requiring museum ships to be dry docked in order to help prevent dry docks from going out of business during a time when the U.S. has ceded substantially all maritime shipping to other nations, would it act any differently than it is currently acting? 'cuz the military has done things in the past between wars to keep necessary industries afloat, pun intended.
Ships rust period ! Museum ships while in the water will rust and corrode even if they have cathodic protection. So periodiclly they have to be hauled out to get sandblasted , painted and new anodes if the is not the corrosion will lead to leaks. Better invest in maintenance than Salvage. Greetings from Panama
I did have an idea for NEXT april 1st on the Big J. (If you're somehow in drydock by then, if not the idea still works). The idea being that you could SAY you spoke with the US Navy and that they, reluctantly, gave the green light to pull a "Mighty Mo" (pull her out into the Atlantic) and gave you permission to reactivate ONE of the 16 inch guns (One barrel or turret, your choice) so that we can FINALLY hear the mighty ring of freedom once more in the modern day. (I just thought it might be funny for an April fools thing)
One of the other Iowas, they managed to get one of the turrets working enough to slew it from side to side.
@@BlackEpyon Yeah USS Iowa, That's what made me think of it.
Currently 6 years between drydocking per the recent guidance from NAVSEA
All the taxpayers wasted on basically nothing, there should be plenty of funds for preservation of our historical items
There is no way that anyone has posed that question of why because the ship is no longer in service. Ummm. The boat is still floating in water.. which is why it needs periodic dry docking. Regardless of active or not. If it floats, it will need dry docking
FYI, your audio levels are low.
The Iowas will never be reactivated.
Their propulsion plants are ancient history and would alone cost millions to restore.
More importantly the spare 16" gun liners were all scrapped in recent years so there are no liners to refurbish the guns. These liners only last a few hundred rounds.
Anyone who thinks a 16 inch gun from 1944 or 9 of them has any use in modern warfare is prolly as old as my grandpa. So many geniuses on here who think they alone know it all
It's not so much the Navy demanding you do maintenance on the ship so much as the desire to not be a scuba adventure that demands the drydock.
I bet the rumor of the ship being returned to active service is from the old April fools video where Ryan joked about that. I bet someone forgot to check the date and ran with it as fact.
What set of coats/paints will the ship receive below the waterline? Is the paint going to be chosen on the basis of its effectiveness or on its historical accuracy? If it’s the latter, will it be wwII era paint or paint from the Vietnam era? How many layers are there? Did the ship ever have infrared-shielding paint in active service?
Thats sad that the federal government doesn't give any funding to the museum ships you'd think with the money they have a couple thousand every year wouldn't hurt
I have always wondered about the paint used on steel naval vessels. I don't think Rustoleum is up to the task. Commercially, paints that harden in the presence of moisture are available from POR-15 and KBS Coatings but they are susceptible to UV light and must be top coated. Is the paint for a preservation ship the same as the U.S. Navy uses? How is it acquired and I wonder what a gallon costs, not that I have my own ship, just curious. Does regular paint thinner dilute it for clean up. Auto restorers tend to use an epoxy primer, is this used on ships? There are so many topics about a battleship, still this may be fodder for a future video. I am sure there is a lot that goes into painting a ship.
Really wish we could have kept some of the German surface ships that weren’t sunk from ww2
Was recently out for my second visit at BS:NJ!
Here are some cool questions hopefully...
What will day one look like for NJ when she's finally in dry dock?
What is best case for you all after she's up in the air? Worst case?
If repairs exceed your budget what happens next? Grassroots style campaign to raise capital? I'm sure you guys know what the condition is from dives but just interesting thought experiment.
Will the navy be involved in any capacity when she's moved? Or just local tugs?
What systems if any will need to be brought online to drydock her. Or will she move in her current capacity to drydock.
Thanks all for what you do! Excited to keep up and try to get back out again one day.
How do you service the areas under the blocks. Do they get moved periodically?
Somebody has been watching clips from the Battleship movie.
Even if they wanted to reactivated they wouldn't have a crew, nobody is enlisting 😂
The USS Ling is a poor example of what you speak. Go New Jersey
Heard it was donated to Ukraine.
Its because the new ships are trash and they gonna NEED battleships for china lol
If that conspiracy were true I guess the Texas is also being reactivated.
USS Kidd in Baton Rouge has to be drydocked for maintenance due to the Mississippi being lower than normal as well as repairing the mooring it sits on while on display. They have to bring it down river to New Orleans for drydocking.
I believe the ship that is in the most dire need for dry docking is the Olympia! #myship
It's as likely that the Navy will reactivate USS Constitution.