Flamethrower is absolute OP thing when it comes to high difficulty, because it unlock it with blue science and it can be used up to green biters without any upgrades, because not only DPS is insane it's also doing splash damage It's literally your only savior against blue biters that appeared too early, because red-ammo turrets and lazers without damage upgrade are very weak against blue biters So if you're playing on a deathworld - even one flamethrower in addition to your normal lazer turret spam will increase your defense capabilities in multiple times
Yeah. 100% agree. Been in multiple deathworlds. Flamethrower leaves fire the damages further biters, uses shockingly little fuel and is the most effective turret on Nauvis. Even late game a wall of fire is still a wall of fire they have to stand in while your other turrets do their work.
I was gonna say the same thing. No way you rank the cheapest turret type that will deal with anything on Nauvis without upgrades below S tier. The ammo for them is even more 'free' than electricity as one pump with some storage will easily keep up for eternity for a whole wall section of them.
Even on normal worlds, I always have 1 flamer for every 4 guns. They significantly reduce ammo usage for the small cost of a bit of oil and a pipeline.
"You can use them all based on your playstyle." I see this man has never tried to use laser turrets on Gleba. Not putting flamethrowers in S tier is crazy. It's dramatically easier to run a bunch of pipes for oil than it is to run ammo belts for gun turrets. A single flamethrower and a single layer of wall can deal with most attacks and even behemoth expansion parties. Go watch some Dosh deathworld videos for an example of how flamethrowers are the only turret in the vanilla game capable of handling the higher difficulties. Watch that one Michael Hendriks video where he supplies his entire endgame deathworld base from a single pumpjack, where flamethrowers are his only defense. The oil consumption is negligible, for a turret that can single handedly take care of all of Nauvis, which is 50% of the base defense you need in the game. Deathworld is basically a rush to get flamethrowers as fast as possible. So much so that a 1000x science playthrough I saw was getting close to skipping unlocking splitters to rush flamethrowers even faster. Seriously, they're the best turret on Nauvis by a huge margin. Nothing even comes close for a turret that only needs red/green science and ~50 military science that you can just craft by hand while you're building the rest of your base. As for rating turrets based on their use in space platforms, that's a bit silly. The space platforms don't function like regular base defenses. There's a clear and obvious progression required for space platforms. One a single type of turret can take care of each type of asteroid, so there's not much use in considering the use on space platforms, because it's a lock and key puzzle. Use gun turrets for the small asteroids, or die. Use rockets for the large asteroids, or die. Use railguns for the massive asteroids, or die. There's not really any choice, so rating them just doesn't make sense. If you want to play Space Age, you are forced to use the turrets the developers intended. Which brings a lot more logic to putting railguns at F tier. They're only used on space platforms, and they destroy your own walls and any other turrets in front. Which makes them useless for anything other than killing demolishers or massive asteroids. It probably makes more sense to rate base defense with two separate tier lists, one for Nauvis, and another for Gleba. Based on that, flamethrowers and lasers are high tier on Nauvis, and the rocket turrets and tesla turrets are high tier on Gleba. Seriously though, if you don't think flamethrowers are S tier, just try playing a deathworld game without them. Gun turrets consume way too much iron to deal with the biters, so the pollution from producing ammo can trigger more attacks than you can kill with that ammo. Relying on gun turrets is a slow death spiral. Meanwhile, lasers almost require nuclear before you can sustain base defense with them, because boilers produce a ton of pollution which leads to the same problem as gun turrets, and solar demands room and steel you simply don't have. With just laser shooting speed 3, each laser can consume ~3MW of power just to fire for a second. That's 100k of iron just for enough solar and accumulators to fire a single turret constantly. Plus, the passive power drain of lasers creates a ton of pollution surprisingly quickly. You're looking at trying to kill waves of big biters with regular gun turrets before you can get nuclear set up to power your lasers. Good luck. Lasers are substantially more expensive at a critical time during biter evolution. Flamethrowers are the back of any good Nauvis standing defense. If you don't think so, you haven't been playing on higher difficulties that show the weakness of the other turrets. With even just a small bit more difficulty, flamethrowers quickly come out on top as the most powerful turret on Nauvis. And if you're not playing on higher difficulties, then base defense on Nauvis barely matters, because the biters aren't a serious threat.
I use lasers on space platforms to handle asteroids ambling in from the sides or behind. They're terrible, but for slow moving medium or small asteroids, they're good enough.
Railgun turrets are also useless against demolishers. Just use the weapon version instead. Why go through the hassle of getting electricity setup for a weapon that only fires in a narrow cone, when you can carry a similar weapon on your character. But yeah flamethrower turrets are so far above all other turret types, except maybe artillery, that it's not even close.
It actually more impressive when you consider he made up downsides for it like "Requires oil" and "Mini range" when everyone knows that a line of walls and a SINGLE pumpjack means you won the early mid and even part of the late game deffense. So you know... even with made up bs C tier is impressive i guess.
Yeah the inexpensive splash damage is pivotal in defending larger biter rushes on Nauvis at insignificant cost, and I would argue that piping oil is as easy, if not easier, than supplying ammo to gun turrets.
Few things you missed: - Resource efficiency! Specifically in the early game. Gun turrets consume ammo, which costs resources to make. On higher difficulties, you can even get into a situation where the ammo required to kill a single biter creates more pollution to make than that biter cost to spawn, resulting in a death spiral. Flamethrower turrets, on the other hand, require only a *tiny* amount of oil per shot, and are available much, much sooner than laser turrets. Many Deathworld runs come down to 'can I get oil and flamethrowers working before the bugs kill me?'. - On Gleba, while your primary defenses will be tesla and/or rocket turrets, you still want some gun or laser turrets backing them up. The strafer pentapod's projectile spawns a wriggler when it hits, and having a line of gun or laser turrets to take those out means the tesla and rocket turrets, both of which are rather slow-firing, don't have to waste time doing so. (It's especially important with rocket turrets, which have a minimum range and, if using explosive rockets, will cause friendly fire.) - Land mines have a niche use: biter eggs and pentapod eggs. Both of these spoil into their respective enemy after a certain period. Worse, because all items in a stack share the same spoil timer, if you have a full stack of them spoil, you suddenly have _50_ biters or pentapods spawning at once in the middle of your base! However, if you surround the chest where the eggs are stored with a few land mines, then the moment the enemies spawn, they set off the mines, which do area damage, thus killing them all at once. (The explosion usually also destroys the chest, which is actually a good thing, since destroying a chest destroys all the items in the chest, meaning if you has any additional stacks of eggs in there that were just about to spoil, they are no longer a problem.) - Railguns cannot fire over walls; their projectile will damage anything friend or foe, that's in its path when it fires. This makes them a lot less useful on Nauvis, where walls are standard, but is less of a problem on Gleba, where many enemies can just walk right over walls anyway. - Railguns can be useful on Gleba, where even the smallest stompers have more HP than behemoth biters on Nauvis. - Railguns and artillery are both useful for killing demolishers on Vulcanus. Though technically that's not them being *defenses* but *offenses~*
Railgun is also very restricted in terms of placement because you essentially need to keep their front unblocked because they'll punch through your walls and destroy them when they fire, which is another contributor towards their heavily restricted placement. They have exactly one use outside of the trip to the shattered planet, and that's oneshotting demolishers. That's all they're good for.
Artillery does not negate the need for defense... What are you going to do when the biters from the nest you just destroyed walk up to your base? Gotta deal with them!
Flames done dirty here! Pipes are pretty easy to connect, the amount of oil they actually use is insanely low, and oil sources are infinite. Artillery is great but overrated here. you've already had to secure nauvis before you left. It's pretty good for proactive defence on Gleba Glad to see railguns this low. Friendly firing in front of them, only used because the game railroads you into using them with huge asteroids Bots carry ammo, what? That seems so wasteful. Your wall has a perimeter, use a belt loop and supply them all Missing pipe walls, which are a decent bridge to real walls. Great list, enjoyed the vid
flamethrowers are straight up op especially with light oil, if you are willing to work a little (make a pipeline and a tiny refinery site for light oil) they will clear anything you need without having to worry about setting up a nuclear or mass solar or have to upkeep ammo. i used flamethrowers only for my largest base that did around 1.5k spm (only have 700 hours don't hound me) and i never got a single building destroyed alert in the entire 140 hour run Probably should've mentioned this only counts for nauvis in the beginning but alas
Does light oil make that much of a difference? I use it, because it is the most convenient fuel most of the time, since it is used to make train fuel. But oil fields are defended with crude oil.
@schwarzerritter5724 with the damage upgrades they deal with behemoths better than crude, you can probably still manage with only crude oil but it's personal preference at that point though expect the occasional alert if you just let the biters do as they please and you only have crude oil
You are getting the landmines notification because for a few seconds they are vulnerable to biter attack and aren't armed yet. If you wait a bit, they will arm themselves and wont be vulnerable anymore
Tesla turrets have an insane standby power of 1 MW each, making them the biggest consumer on Gleba. Tho it isn't like Gleba uses much power aside from that.... Landmines are also useless/bugged on Gleba: Stompers tend to stomp on them and not take damage.
Stompers definitely aren't immune to landmines, since I've used mines as my primary defence on Gleba. The issue with stompers is that their "stomp attack" has an AoE, which means they destroy any mines they stomp near. This gives you the alert noise for coming under attack, but does still deal the mines damage to the stomper. The drawback of this is that it doesn't seem to trigger the mines stun effect on the enemy. Small stompers tend to trigger them normally due to having a smaller "stomp" area, getting stunned and dying in just a few mines. The medium and large ones are more likely to detonate the mines early and run through the mines, but they'll still take huge damage as they charge through. The mines also stop the other pentapod types with incredible ease. Based on my experience with them, I'd actually highly recommend mines on Gleba. You can get them set up faster than rocket turrets, and they're insanely cheap to produce, much cheaper than rockets whilst dealing more damage. By the time the large stompers start showing up and hitting the HP threshold to clear the mines, you'll be ready to back them up with some rocket turrets behind them, or will have the energy infrastructure set up to sustainably power tesla turrets.
Landmines being D tier is criminal, they replace every other type of defence as long as you have bots. Landmines are - Cheap, autonomous (They are great for anti-expansion walls), quick to build, have insane damage, serve as an offensive tool. Annoyance is a very stupid thing to judge the mines for. Also you can often make bugs ignore mines if you place an empty turret to lure the bugs to Also gun turrets suck ass with the expenses of ammunition and their logistics.
even better: landmines have an initial timer during which they are vulnerable to biters and will get destroyes by them without killing them. That's why you get pings. After the timer is up, the landmine activates and can't be destroyed
flame turrets are easily the best on nauvis, needing only a single pumpjack to supply an entire perimeter defense. gun and laser turrets can largely be skipped over for this reason, but they are helpful for support and special tasks. tesla turret is extremely helpful on gleba and great for support even on nauvis. rocket and railgun turrets force the player to use them.
@@MK_MitKitI mostly agree, but I tend to use only lasers on Nauvis. They are very comfortable and easy to reinforce if needed. I just automate them alongside solar early, they are infinitely more convenient than gun turrets. I also use lasers offensively, they used to be quite convenient for that, but now that I learned you can just include ammo in blueprints, they may have lost their edge there. I still think lasers are on par with teslas in overall usefulness, mainly because by the time you unlock teslas, they have kinda lost their relevance, thanks to artilery. If you just outpace your pollution with your artilery range, suddenly defense becomes no longer relevant, because you will have no biter bases in generated chunks, meaning you have achieved world peace. This is way easier to do than I used to believe.
Generally agree to most of your statements. I was missing some stuff though -Mentioning demolishers and what turrets are useful would have been nice -Artillery has Trains making them the only mobile turret - Walls have special designs (dragon teeth) that help rendering enmies a non thread (only navius) -Tesla turrents have an Insane base Drain so if you have a small gleba base it should be considered -Flame turrets are basically free as well since even 1 drained oil field can keep your defence alive, but they are a bit harder to scale since there is a maxium pipe length since 2.0 (I know pumps fix it with limited flow rate but still more work and harder to use on tileable BP) -Railgun turret destroys everything in front of it, was show in the video but never mentioned I think deffo a downside Honorable Mention: -Spidertron, not fully automated but a really strong option for defence and basically a remote controlled player -Tanks same as spiderton although not as usefull, but they can be used as a wall now, they have a inventory grid so you can have them self repair, add armor or even personal laser defence and get a spikey wall :) -Train saw... -Pipes (the wall bevor you have walls) -Lastly captive biter spawner makes rocket trurrets a failsave and also are not attackable by biters so and immortal wall in case you have the bioflux Anyways great video Idea gonna add my like now :)
1 drained oil field? Hell, a pretty sizeable Nauvisian defence can be set up from just 1 pumpjack. A typical attack on a typical defence with a reasonable amount of refined flammables research will consume no more than 100 oi.. This means a pumpjack producing 1 crude oil per second will be able to comfortably fend off 1 attack every 2 minutes, which is less than what most midgame bases will experience. Flamethrowers are laughably cheap.
honestly i disagree flamethrower turrets are hare to set up, either way you have to move some kind of ammo and atleast for fluids you dont need inserters
... did he just call the flamethrower turret one of the "most unused" turrets? The popularity of flame turrets is so high that it's kinda obnoxious. ... Now I'm wondering if he deliberately put flamethrowers low to drive "engagement". You know, as flame bait.
If gun turrets are going to be S tier because of cheap construction costs and early Nauvis usage despite their flaws, then flamethrower turrets should get a lot of points too. They're nearly as simple to make and even easier to supply. Just divert a couple engines you're already making for blue science, and run a pipeline or train like you would belt ammo. Flamethrower turrets obliterate groups. The gun and laser turrets are single target. Flamethrower turrets' main downside is that the fast front runners can slip through if they're your only defense, so it's still a good idea to throw a couple gun and later laser turrets near them to cull the front.
Mines and Flamethrowers have great synergy, as the Mines stun attack groups which allows the Flamethrowers to deal full damage to stationary groups instead of trailing behind enemies.
laser turrets are pretty nice on big ships when destroying small asteroids as they have bad laser resistance and that way you don't need ammo turrets to retarget. If you just set targetting for normal turrets to medium asteroids and laser to small you will save a decent bit of ammo and not use that much power. Furthermore, laser turrets are also handy on space ships on remote locations on the ship where u can't really bring ammo to.
stone walls cost approx. 4 times as much to cover a given length, while also requiring additional research and decent automation to make enough of them it's especially cheap since a lot of players spend the early game by collecting rocks, which provides a surplus of stone to make a ton of furnace walls with if you're putting turrets in A because of their usefulness in the early game, even though they're basically suckass once biter evolution kicks in, then idk why stone furnaces don't get the same treatment
My base uses mines and flamers, and so far, even at the highest evolution factor with tons of biters, I have not seen so much as a damaged wall. Just because of the little stun they have.
Landfill is A tier. You can section off all of your energy infrastructure (or other things) across bodies of water to isolate them completely (on Nauvis?)
interesting, on my Gleba planets I exclusively use gun turrets with red ammo + bots and 2 of those planets are quite big, though not megabase yet, around 40k~ fruits a min. You just have to make sure there are enough gun Turrets in one spot to shred stompers as they are in my opinion the only threat on Gleba actually. Oh on my most recent Gleba planet I just made a Roboport grid that extended quite a bit beyond my spore coverage at max production as Gleba Enemies won't attack it, it's kinda funny seeing Roboports hugging large rafts and the enemies just chilling next to them as the bots expand :P. after cleaning up the rafts inside the Robo area I am done with the defence for Gleba, as Pentapots can't expand into Robo covered land :)
Tesla turret should be A because it's the most universal defense you can get. You need only energy and it's good for every type of enemy on Nauvis and Gleba. Single target? Stunned and killed. Multi target? Killed with chain attack. Also it has the biggest range after Artillery (not really a defense but offense) and Railgun (only useful against asteroids and vulcanus worms), means that most of the enemies will die before even getting close. So it's your ultimate solution for any enemy that wasn't killed by Artilllery. Like Rocket turret is harder to get and it's way weaker than Tesla turrets, so I see only it's being used in Space. Maybe it's useful when you've gone to Gleba before Fulgora.
Personally I'd move gun turrets to C and flamethrowers to S. But this from the perspective of playing deathworld though. The gun turrets are simply too expensive to supply, and have rather low health so they easily get destroyed by spitters. Meanwhile the flame turrets are extremly cheap to supply, quite tanky, and deal extremely high damage and you don't need a lot of them. Once I unlock the flamers it's really the only turret I use on Nauvis. A double wall with flamers spaced by the maximum underground pipe length and bots is basically all you need to make your base impenetrable even on deathworld(unless you start shooting a bunch of very big nests with artillery I guess) Oh, and do make some generous spacing between the flamers and the wall so the spitters go along with the biters up close to the wall.
Good rarity scaling? They only get range. Tech is really good because it upgrades both the turret damage bonus and munitions damage. With the flame turrets you can set target priorities to focus on the range biters first. With the artillery you still need other turrets in the short term, because destroying the bases provokes biter attacks.
HAAARD disagree on landmines. they are singlehandedly the most overpowered thing in this game. no, you dont need to pair them with bots and in fact they are probably better without them because bots like to just endlessly place them infront of spitters. im 200 hrs into my current save and my evolution is at .97 which is about as high as you will ever see. i dont have a single wall or turret placed on nauvis. just landmines. yes i do have to spend about 10 minutes running my tank/spider around replacing them with bots....every 6-12 IRL hours. its so ridiculously easy to upkeep. i urge anyone reading this to try it out. just drag rows and rows of them. make the landmines thick and dense. spam them as tightly pack and chaotic as you can. its literally 0 effort needed. also using them without bots does NOT result in the beeping noise because biters dont attack them.
Other turrets can't shoot things that have a rocket flying at them, if that rocket will kill the thing. So rocket turrets are pretty bad against fast moving targets
flamethrowers are so god damn overpowered, it shloud be in S tier. Also where is locomotive chainsaw? Where are pipes as walls? (ik stupid idea, but i do use pipes as walls in the absolute early-game)
Well, rainguns is really not for defense. Look, devs decided that you should get content after end of the game. And for it they added two mechanics - quality and shattered planet. You unlock them really only st the end(legendary quality and prometheum packs). And to maintain shattered planet way, you should probably use railguns, coz big asteroids just too hard for even rockets!
I'd rank the tesla turrets lower. They require a constant 1MW upkeep. If you want a perimeter in sufficient density (anywhere, especially Gleba) they need several heating towers in constant operation. That is equal to 40 laser turrets. 1 active shooting tesla turet equals 6 active laser turets. That's some overglorified sparcle!
I brought a 1 gigawatt smart nuclear setup to gleba. Makes any energy worries nonexistent. I don't understand why people don't export nuclear to gleba and fulgora then always complain about power issues.
Did you never try out that rocket fuel recipe on Gleba? It's far better than importing nuclear. I have more rocket fuel than I know what to do with on Gleba, and it makes so much energy that half my heating towers aren't even connected to anything because I just don't need that much power.
Railguns being essential for progression does not make them useful defenses. They have exactly one good use case outside of protecting your space platform from huge asteroids, and that's destroying demolishers. They do nothing else useful enough compared to its contemporaries anywhere else.
Giving them a good rating against demolishers is generous. They need power connected and only do well if the damage hits a lot of segments. Made much harder with how wide they are The handheld railgun obsoletes them here. It's easy to run behind a demolisher and 1-3 shot them. And you don't need a turret because that area is now permanently yours
Flamethrower is absolute OP thing when it comes to high difficulty, because it unlock it with blue science and it can be used up to green biters without any upgrades, because not only DPS is insane it's also doing splash damage
It's literally your only savior against blue biters that appeared too early, because red-ammo turrets and lazers without damage upgrade are very weak against blue biters
So if you're playing on a deathworld - even one flamethrower in addition to your normal lazer turret spam will increase your defense capabilities in multiple times
Yeah. 100% agree.
Been in multiple deathworlds. Flamethrower leaves fire the damages further biters, uses shockingly little fuel and is the most effective turret on Nauvis. Even late game a wall of fire is still a wall of fire they have to stand in while your other turrets do their work.
I was gonna say the same thing. No way you rank the cheapest turret type that will deal with anything on Nauvis without upgrades below S tier. The ammo for them is even more 'free' than electricity as one pump with some storage will easily keep up for eternity for a whole wall section of them.
Where is the Locomotive Chainsaw?
Trainsaw*
Its like a tonn of trains mowing around ur base that is allmost fully cover perimeter of ur base like all track is filled and theres one train missing
@@Богдан-г6ы6ч D tier.
flamers got absolutely shafted. anyone thats played a deathworld or rampant knows theyre absolutely invaluable
Even on normal worlds, I always have 1 flamer for every 4 guns. They significantly reduce ammo usage for the small cost of a bit of oil and a pipeline.
"You can use them all based on your playstyle." I see this man has never tried to use laser turrets on Gleba.
Not putting flamethrowers in S tier is crazy. It's dramatically easier to run a bunch of pipes for oil than it is to run ammo belts for gun turrets. A single flamethrower and a single layer of wall can deal with most attacks and even behemoth expansion parties. Go watch some Dosh deathworld videos for an example of how flamethrowers are the only turret in the vanilla game capable of handling the higher difficulties. Watch that one Michael Hendriks video where he supplies his entire endgame deathworld base from a single pumpjack, where flamethrowers are his only defense. The oil consumption is negligible, for a turret that can single handedly take care of all of Nauvis, which is 50% of the base defense you need in the game. Deathworld is basically a rush to get flamethrowers as fast as possible. So much so that a 1000x science playthrough I saw was getting close to skipping unlocking splitters to rush flamethrowers even faster. Seriously, they're the best turret on Nauvis by a huge margin. Nothing even comes close for a turret that only needs red/green science and ~50 military science that you can just craft by hand while you're building the rest of your base.
As for rating turrets based on their use in space platforms, that's a bit silly. The space platforms don't function like regular base defenses. There's a clear and obvious progression required for space platforms. One a single type of turret can take care of each type of asteroid, so there's not much use in considering the use on space platforms, because it's a lock and key puzzle. Use gun turrets for the small asteroids, or die. Use rockets for the large asteroids, or die. Use railguns for the massive asteroids, or die. There's not really any choice, so rating them just doesn't make sense. If you want to play Space Age, you are forced to use the turrets the developers intended. Which brings a lot more logic to putting railguns at F tier. They're only used on space platforms, and they destroy your own walls and any other turrets in front. Which makes them useless for anything other than killing demolishers or massive asteroids.
It probably makes more sense to rate base defense with two separate tier lists, one for Nauvis, and another for Gleba. Based on that, flamethrowers and lasers are high tier on Nauvis, and the rocket turrets and tesla turrets are high tier on Gleba.
Seriously though, if you don't think flamethrowers are S tier, just try playing a deathworld game without them. Gun turrets consume way too much iron to deal with the biters, so the pollution from producing ammo can trigger more attacks than you can kill with that ammo. Relying on gun turrets is a slow death spiral. Meanwhile, lasers almost require nuclear before you can sustain base defense with them, because boilers produce a ton of pollution which leads to the same problem as gun turrets, and solar demands room and steel you simply don't have. With just laser shooting speed 3, each laser can consume ~3MW of power just to fire for a second. That's 100k of iron just for enough solar and accumulators to fire a single turret constantly. Plus, the passive power drain of lasers creates a ton of pollution surprisingly quickly. You're looking at trying to kill waves of big biters with regular gun turrets before you can get nuclear set up to power your lasers. Good luck. Lasers are substantially more expensive at a critical time during biter evolution. Flamethrowers are the back of any good Nauvis standing defense. If you don't think so, you haven't been playing on higher difficulties that show the weakness of the other turrets. With even just a small bit more difficulty, flamethrowers quickly come out on top as the most powerful turret on Nauvis. And if you're not playing on higher difficulties, then base defense on Nauvis barely matters, because the biters aren't a serious threat.
Whats wrong with laser on Gleba?
I use lasers on space platforms to handle asteroids ambling in from the sides or behind. They're terrible, but for slow moving medium or small asteroids, they're good enough.
Railgun turrets are also useless against demolishers. Just use the weapon version instead. Why go through the hassle of getting electricity setup for a weapon that only fires in a narrow cone, when you can carry a similar weapon on your character.
But yeah flamethrower turrets are so far above all other turret types, except maybe artillery, that it's not even close.
The most overpowered turret, used by anyone who is proficient in the game mechanics: C tier
Y try rampant without ^^
It actually more impressive when you consider he made up downsides for it like "Requires oil" and "Mini range" when everyone knows that a line of walls and a SINGLE pumpjack means you won the early mid and even part of the late game deffense.
So you know... even with made up bs C tier is impressive i guess.
Flamethrower on Nauvis is definitely at least B tier
Yeah the inexpensive splash damage is pivotal in defending larger biter rushes on Nauvis at insignificant cost, and I would argue that piping oil is as easy, if not easier, than supplying ammo to gun turrets.
Flamethrower on Nauvis is S tier.
S++
No they're easily s tier, I only use flamethrowers on nauvis
flamethrowers are god tier defensives
Few things you missed:
- Resource efficiency! Specifically in the early game. Gun turrets consume ammo, which costs resources to make. On higher difficulties, you can even get into a situation where the ammo required to kill a single biter creates more pollution to make than that biter cost to spawn, resulting in a death spiral. Flamethrower turrets, on the other hand, require only a *tiny* amount of oil per shot, and are available much, much sooner than laser turrets. Many Deathworld runs come down to 'can I get oil and flamethrowers working before the bugs kill me?'.
- On Gleba, while your primary defenses will be tesla and/or rocket turrets, you still want some gun or laser turrets backing them up. The strafer pentapod's projectile spawns a wriggler when it hits, and having a line of gun or laser turrets to take those out means the tesla and rocket turrets, both of which are rather slow-firing, don't have to waste time doing so. (It's especially important with rocket turrets, which have a minimum range and, if using explosive rockets, will cause friendly fire.)
- Land mines have a niche use: biter eggs and pentapod eggs. Both of these spoil into their respective enemy after a certain period. Worse, because all items in a stack share the same spoil timer, if you have a full stack of them spoil, you suddenly have _50_ biters or pentapods spawning at once in the middle of your base! However, if you surround the chest where the eggs are stored with a few land mines, then the moment the enemies spawn, they set off the mines, which do area damage, thus killing them all at once. (The explosion usually also destroys the chest, which is actually a good thing, since destroying a chest destroys all the items in the chest, meaning if you has any additional stacks of eggs in there that were just about to spoil, they are no longer a problem.)
- Railguns cannot fire over walls; their projectile will damage anything friend or foe, that's in its path when it fires. This makes them a lot less useful on Nauvis, where walls are standard, but is less of a problem on Gleba, where many enemies can just walk right over walls anyway.
- Railguns can be useful on Gleba, where even the smallest stompers have more HP than behemoth biters on Nauvis.
- Railguns and artillery are both useful for killing demolishers on Vulcanus. Though technically that's not them being *defenses* but *offenses~*
hope you were joking when you said people don't use the flamer
Bruh is your pfp cropped 34?
Railgun is also very restricted in terms of placement because you essentially need to keep their front unblocked because they'll punch through your walls and destroy them when they fire, which is another contributor towards their heavily restricted placement.
They have exactly one use outside of the trip to the shattered planet, and that's oneshotting demolishers. That's all they're good for.
They don't, however, destroy cliffs. So if you build on a cliff, they are excellent.
Artillery does not negate the need for defense... What are you going to do when the biters from the nest you just destroyed walk up to your base? Gotta deal with them!
Flames done dirty here! Pipes are pretty easy to connect, the amount of oil they actually use is insanely low, and oil sources are infinite.
Artillery is great but overrated here. you've already had to secure nauvis before you left. It's pretty good for proactive defence on Gleba
Glad to see railguns this low. Friendly firing in front of them, only used because the game railroads you into using them with huge asteroids
Bots carry ammo, what? That seems so wasteful. Your wall has a perimeter, use a belt loop and supply them all
Missing pipe walls, which are a decent bridge to real walls.
Great list, enjoyed the vid
flamethrowers are straight up op especially with light oil, if you are willing to work a little (make a pipeline and a tiny refinery site for light oil) they will clear anything you need without having to worry about setting up a nuclear or mass solar or have to upkeep ammo. i used flamethrowers only for my largest base that did around 1.5k spm (only have 700 hours don't hound me) and i never got a single building destroyed alert in the entire 140 hour run
Probably should've mentioned this only counts for nauvis in the beginning but alas
Does light oil make that much of a difference?
I use it, because it is the most convenient fuel most of the time, since it is used to make train fuel. But oil fields are defended with crude oil.
@@schwarzerritter5724 light oil does 10% more damage than crude and 5% more than heavy
@@theenigma8494 Heavy oil is definitely the least convenient, since you are processing it into lubricant or light oil right next to the refinery.
@schwarzerritter5724 with the damage upgrades they deal with behemoths better than crude, you can probably still manage with only crude oil but it's personal preference at that point though expect the occasional alert if you just let the biters do as they please and you only have crude oil
You are getting the landmines notification because for a few seconds they are vulnerable to biter attack and aren't armed yet. If you wait a bit, they will arm themselves and wont be vulnerable anymore
You have got to be out of your crack-smoking mind if you put THE undisputed s-tier flame turret in C.
Tesla turrets have an insane standby power of 1 MW each, making them the biggest consumer on Gleba.
Tho it isn't like Gleba uses much power aside from that....
Landmines are also useless/bugged on Gleba: Stompers tend to stomp on them and not take damage.
Not sure it is a bug. Stompers just seem to be immune to the land mines
Stompers definitely aren't immune to landmines, since I've used mines as my primary defence on Gleba. The issue with stompers is that their "stomp attack" has an AoE, which means they destroy any mines they stomp near. This gives you the alert noise for coming under attack, but does still deal the mines damage to the stomper. The drawback of this is that it doesn't seem to trigger the mines stun effect on the enemy.
Small stompers tend to trigger them normally due to having a smaller "stomp" area, getting stunned and dying in just a few mines. The medium and large ones are more likely to detonate the mines early and run through the mines, but they'll still take huge damage as they charge through. The mines also stop the other pentapod types with incredible ease.
Based on my experience with them, I'd actually highly recommend mines on Gleba. You can get them set up faster than rocket turrets, and they're insanely cheap to produce, much cheaper than rockets whilst dealing more damage. By the time the large stompers start showing up and hitting the HP threshold to clear the mines, you'll be ready to back them up with some rocket turrets behind them, or will have the energy infrastructure set up to sustainably power tesla turrets.
Landmines being D tier is criminal, they replace every other type of defence as long as you have bots. Landmines are - Cheap, autonomous (They are great for anti-expansion walls), quick to build, have insane damage, serve as an offensive tool. Annoyance is a very stupid thing to judge the mines for. Also you can often make bugs ignore mines if you place an empty turret to lure the bugs to
Also gun turrets suck ass with the expenses of ammunition and their logistics.
even better: landmines have an initial timer during which they are vulnerable to biters and will get destroyes by them without killing them. That's why you get pings. After the timer is up, the landmine activates and can't be destroyed
Flamethrower feels low.
It has been the core of most mega defence on navus pre space and still are the strongest turret before you go to space
S - artillery and flame
A - tesla
B - laser and gun
C - rocket
D - railgun
flame turrets are easily the best on nauvis, needing only a single pumpjack to supply an entire perimeter defense.
gun and laser turrets can largely be skipped over for this reason, but they are helpful for support and special tasks.
tesla turret is extremely helpful on gleba and great for support even on nauvis.
rocket and railgun turrets force the player to use them.
@@MK_MitKitI mostly agree, but I tend to use only lasers on Nauvis. They are very comfortable and easy to reinforce if needed. I just automate them alongside solar early, they are infinitely more convenient than gun turrets. I also use lasers offensively, they used to be quite convenient for that, but now that I learned you can just include ammo in blueprints, they may have lost their edge there. I still think lasers are on par with teslas in overall usefulness, mainly because by the time you unlock teslas, they have kinda lost their relevance, thanks to artilery. If you just outpace your pollution with your artilery range, suddenly defense becomes no longer relevant, because you will have no biter bases in generated chunks, meaning you have achieved world peace. This is way easier to do than I used to believe.
C tier flamethrowers is insane. Am I getting baited.
Generally agree to most of your statements. I was missing some stuff though
-Mentioning demolishers and what turrets are useful would have been nice
-Artillery has Trains making them the only mobile turret
- Walls have special designs (dragon teeth) that help rendering enmies a non thread (only navius)
-Tesla turrents have an Insane base Drain so if you have a small gleba base it should be considered
-Flame turrets are basically free as well since even 1 drained oil field can keep your defence alive, but they are a bit harder to scale since there is a maxium pipe length since 2.0 (I know pumps fix it with limited flow rate but still more work and harder to use on tileable BP)
-Railgun turret destroys everything in front of it, was show in the video but never mentioned I think deffo a downside
Honorable Mention:
-Spidertron, not fully automated but a really strong option for defence and basically a remote controlled player
-Tanks same as spiderton although not as usefull, but they can be used as a wall now, they have a inventory grid so you can have them self repair, add armor or even personal laser defence and get a spikey wall :)
-Train saw...
-Pipes (the wall bevor you have walls)
-Lastly captive biter spawner makes rocket trurrets a failsave and also are not attackable by biters so and immortal wall in case you have the bioflux
Anyways great video Idea gonna add my like now :)
Exacly what i was thinking
1 drained oil field? Hell, a pretty sizeable Nauvisian defence can be set up from just 1 pumpjack. A typical attack on a typical defence with a reasonable amount of refined flammables research will consume no more than 100 oi.. This means a pumpjack producing 1 crude oil per second will be able to comfortably fend off 1 attack every 2 minutes, which is less than what most midgame bases will experience.
Flamethrowers are laughably cheap.
Dragon teeth aren't really worth mention, it's overkill that people like doing. A single row of walls/laser turrets will hold all game
@@andrasfogarasi5014
Ah dang sorry I missformulated that meant 1 pump jack (one oil puddle) sorry for the miss statement your obviously right
honestly i disagree flamethrower turrets are hare to set up, either way you have to move some kind of ammo and atleast for fluids you dont need inserters
I'd have to disagree that the flamethrower turret being unpopular! From what I've seen, It's THE best turret, and most useful while on Nauvis.
Have you gone out of your mind? Flamethrower outside of S tier???
... did he just call the flamethrower turret one of the "most unused" turrets? The popularity of flame turrets is so high that it's kinda obnoxious.
... Now I'm wondering if he deliberately put flamethrowers low to drive "engagement". You know, as flame bait.
yea, lasers being so high with flames so low has gotta be bait.
I think you underestimate the stupidity of most people
Wuh flamethrowers are ss tier,
Death world are near impossible without them
Never thought I’d see a Factorio tier list but here we are.
My gleba defense is using spidertrons, who just go around clearing nests once in a while
This. One spidertron with rockets and personal laser defense in grid is all I ever needed.
Also useful for fetching new eggs if the egg loop starves
Ranking of offenses next (armors, combat bots, guns, vehicles, grenades/capsules, etc)?
If gun turrets are going to be S tier because of cheap construction costs and early Nauvis usage despite their flaws, then flamethrower turrets should get a lot of points too. They're nearly as simple to make and even easier to supply. Just divert a couple engines you're already making for blue science, and run a pipeline or train like you would belt ammo. Flamethrower turrets obliterate groups. The gun and laser turrets are single target. Flamethrower turrets' main downside is that the fast front runners can slip through if they're your only defense, so it's still a good idea to throw a couple gun and later laser turrets near them to cull the front.
Mines and Flamethrowers have great synergy, as the Mines stun attack groups which allows the Flamethrowers to deal full damage to stationary groups instead of trailing behind enemies.
This tier list was clearly made by someone who doesn't play the game
This is like doing rock paper scissor tier list
Gun turrets with green ammo can kill Demolishers in a split second if you place a bunch of them. Flame turrets carry Nauvis defenses on their own.
laser turrets are pretty nice on big ships when destroying small asteroids as they have bad laser resistance and that way you don't need ammo turrets to retarget. If you just set targetting for normal turrets to medium asteroids and laser to small you will save a decent bit of ammo and not use that much power. Furthermore, laser turrets are also handy on space ships on remote locations on the ship where u can't really bring ammo to.
My defenses late game: 2 row of lasers on nauvis, same + rocket turrets on gleba, same + cannon on spaceship.
stone walls cost approx. 4 times as much to cover a given length, while also requiring additional research and decent automation to make enough of them
it's especially cheap since a lot of players spend the early game by collecting rocks, which provides a surplus of stone to make a ton of furnace walls with
if you're putting turrets in A because of their usefulness in the early game, even though they're basically suckass once biter evolution kicks in, then idk why stone furnaces don't get the same treatment
Mines are actually S+ tier :D
My base uses mines and flamers, and so far, even at the highest evolution factor with tons of biters, I have not seen so much as a damaged wall. Just because of the little stun they have.
@@MarcLucksch they also really usefull at flugora when you deciding it to be the first planet since all other options would be pretty weak lol
Landmines are S tier. They are cheap, powerful, easy to setup. Only requires roboports. The strongest choice for fast progression.
Landfill is A tier. You can section off all of your energy infrastructure (or other things) across bodies of water to isolate them completely (on Nauvis?)
Walls are amazing against asteroids, they stop the big ones in two layers -- without walls it will go through all the layers
No automated train grinders?
What about landmines?
interesting, on my Gleba planets I exclusively use gun turrets with red ammo + bots and 2 of those planets are quite big, though not megabase yet, around 40k~ fruits a min. You just have to make sure there are enough gun Turrets in one spot to shred stompers as they are in my opinion the only threat on Gleba actually. Oh on my most recent Gleba planet I just made a Roboport grid that extended quite a bit beyond my spore coverage at max production as Gleba Enemies won't attack it, it's kinda funny seeing Roboports hugging large rafts and the enemies just chilling next to them as the bots expand :P. after cleaning up the rafts inside the Robo area I am done with the defence for Gleba, as Pentapots can't expand into Robo covered land :)
Tesla turret should be A because it's the most universal defense you can get.
You need only energy and it's good for every type of enemy on Nauvis and Gleba. Single target? Stunned and killed. Multi target? Killed with chain attack. Also it has the biggest range after Artillery (not really a defense but offense) and Railgun (only useful against asteroids and vulcanus worms), means that most of the enemies will die before even getting close.
So it's your ultimate solution for any enemy that wasn't killed by Artilllery.
Like Rocket turret is harder to get and it's way weaker than Tesla turrets, so I see only it's being used in Space.
Maybe it's useful when you've gone to Gleba before Fulgora.
Flamethrower on Nauvis is easily the strongest turret.
Personally I'd move gun turrets to C and flamethrowers to S. But this from the perspective of playing deathworld though.
The gun turrets are simply too expensive to supply, and have rather low health so they easily get destroyed by spitters.
Meanwhile the flame turrets are extremly cheap to supply, quite tanky, and deal extremely high damage and you don't need a lot of them. Once I unlock the flamers it's really the only turret I use on Nauvis.
A double wall with flamers spaced by the maximum underground pipe length and bots is basically all you need to make your base impenetrable even on deathworld(unless you start shooting a bunch of very big nests with artillery I guess)
Oh, and do make some generous spacing between the flamers and the wall so the spitters go along with the biters up close to the wall.
Good rarity scaling? They only get range. Tech is really good because it upgrades both the turret damage bonus and munitions damage.
With the flame turrets you can set target priorities to focus on the range biters first.
With the artillery you still need other turrets in the short term, because destroying the bases provokes biter attacks.
HAAARD disagree on landmines. they are singlehandedly the most overpowered thing in this game. no, you dont need to pair them with bots and in fact they are probably better without them because bots like to just endlessly place them infront of spitters. im 200 hrs into my current save and my evolution is at .97 which is about as high as you will ever see. i dont have a single wall or turret placed on nauvis. just landmines. yes i do have to spend about 10 minutes running my tank/spider around replacing them with bots....every 6-12 IRL hours. its so ridiculously easy to upkeep. i urge anyone reading this to try it out. just drag rows and rows of them. make the landmines thick and dense. spam them as tightly pack and chaotic as you can. its literally 0 effort needed. also using them without bots does NOT result in the beeping noise because biters dont attack them.
I use the flame turrets on navius and it is able to be spamed on the oilflieds and it is geart for hordes
Other turrets can't shoot things that have a rocket flying at them, if that rocket will kill the thing. So rocket turrets are pretty bad against fast moving targets
C tier for flamethrower is bonkers
flamethrowers are so god damn overpowered, it shloud be in S tier.
Also where is locomotive chainsaw?
Where are pipes as walls? (ik stupid idea, but i do use pipes as walls in the absolute early-game)
4:32 the worms are resistant to laser.
Best defense is good offense
Just remove all the spawners in map simulation range
Thats cheese rank out of S
Probably, I wouldn’t try to build your channel by creating videos for a game you’ve never played.
I always found accumulators to expensive...just was storing steam in tanks instead for power spikes...or you go nuclear.
never let bro rate again
I can't help but feel flame turret in C tier was bait
Well, rainguns is really not for defense. Look, devs decided that you should get content after end of the game. And for it they added two mechanics - quality and shattered planet. You unlock them really only st the end(legendary quality and prometheum packs). And to maintain shattered planet way, you should probably use railguns, coz big asteroids just too hard for even rockets!
Well I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions. And so in that same vein I have to completely disagree with your assessment of landmines.
Flamethrower is at least A tier. They are the best on Nauvis
Flamethrowers are S tier
I'd rank the tesla turrets lower. They require a constant 1MW upkeep. If you want a perimeter in sufficient density (anywhere, especially Gleba) they need several heating towers in constant operation. That is equal to 40 laser turrets. 1 active shooting tesla turet equals 6 active laser turets. That's some overglorified sparcle!
Its not crazy difficult to set up a circuit that only turns on the tesla turret when other types of turrets nearby are also firing
Power is relatively easy to come by, just scale up production or install some accumulators, which by the time you get to Gleba come cheap.
I brought a 1 gigawatt smart nuclear setup to gleba. Makes any energy worries nonexistent. I don't understand why people don't export nuclear to gleba and fulgora then always complain about power issues.
Did you never try out that rocket fuel recipe on Gleba? It's far better than importing nuclear. I have more rocket fuel than I know what to do with on Gleba, and it makes so much energy that half my heating towers aren't even connected to anything because I just don't need that much power.
flamethrower should be S
I never use wall's,
is this ragebait
useless ranking
railgun, D tier -> stopped watching video!
lol, would you really use them for defense?
Railguns being essential for progression does not make them useful defenses. They have exactly one good use case outside of protecting your space platform from huge asteroids, and that's destroying demolishers. They do nothing else useful enough compared to its contemporaries anywhere else.
Giving them a good rating against demolishers is generous. They need power connected and only do well if the damage hits a lot of segments. Made much harder with how wide they are
The handheld railgun obsoletes them here. It's easy to run behind a demolisher and 1-3 shot them. And you don't need a turret because that area is now permanently yours