SandBagged? Porsche Cayman GT4 RS vs 992 GT3 ANALYSIS
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- It's time to nerd you out with the in-depth analysis of track performance of GT4 RS compared to the 992 GT3. Is the GT4 RS not allowed to be faster? Or is it actually at its max?
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00:00 Intro
01:15 Tomorrow's video
01:27 New merch!
01:38 Specs comparison
04:27 Pancake
04:48 Specs comparison (Track influence)
05:56 Main differences
07:51 Price Difference
09:53 Onboard comparisons
13:26 Sandbagging?
14:01 Driver Skill influence
15:49 Which one would I pick?
16:42 WHich one would you pick? - Авто та транспорт
This including tomorrow's video took a lot of my time today, hence a late upload.
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I just wish it had a manual option. It is very nearly the car I wanted Porsche to make for 16 years since the Cayman came into existence.
Already ordered!!!!
@@davidsmall7676 same❤️
You have to look up the acceleration time for GT3 again! PDK
Just made my decision and ordered the GT3! For me it’s just the more grown up, more sophisticated car and I always liked the 911s more.
I will tell you next summer if a beginner driver can profit from the new suspension as soon as the car is run in and I find the time to visit its natural habitat :)
To be honest. Ever since the boxter came ut way back people wonderd how a "big" porsche engine in a mid engine setup would be. And here we are! This will be a future classic just like the first 4,0 gt3. Huge fan of the gt4rs! and good analasys!
I’m a 718 Spyder owner and I would have liked to have had that engine in my Spyder. If I was looking for a GT car I’d pick the GT4RS. I own a 911 also bit I think the mid engined package is better.
You have an amazing GT2RS, I agree with preferring a GT4RS for a secondary. Always enjoy your videos esysman🍻
RS Spyder in 2023
Oh yes
In fact the gt3 r is a mid engine race car👍
@@gionatapiga9953
You mean the RSR (991.2) , the GT3 R still has the engine in the back.
@@samueljones3668 Not realy - it's pushed to the front as far as possible...
Agree with all. Actually don't know if you noticed but AP "threw down the gauntlet" in a Motortrend review. To quote RE the Nurburgring Time: "This has not been enough to convince some internet personalities, however, who speculated the 718 Cayman GT4 RS had a braking issue during its Nürburgring lap, allegations Preuninger calls "downright ridiculous. I get very aggravated with these kinds of claims," he says. "They have no idea. Everyone thinks they are an expert because they analyze a video. The maker of that video [alleging brake issues] is welcome to come over and show what kind of lap time they can do." Misha, think you/Apex need to run a GT4RS vs GT3 comparison with a fast driver on the Nurburgring! ;)
You dont have to do it yourself to prove your point when you can see it clearly that the gt4 understeer in some corners or didnt brake like the gt3 its so obvious.The guy who sais do it yourself cant take criticism and i dont understand why in a track like the ring with so many corners you are going to make a couple mistakes say yes i did a mistake or two and move on jesus christ
@@giannisgiannopoulos2766 Yeah, I feel that was a very aggressive and OTT response by AP considering how big fans Misha & Co /Apex are of Porsche (and frankly do a LOT of Porsche's marketing--for free!). Porsche should be appreciative of it. Talk about Porsche biting the hand that feeds it!
Legend as always, this is the question I was having since I heard it was slower with less weight and better setup as mid-engine. Thanks a ton mate!
I love this kind of Videos! So detailed and well explained. Great work!
I’ve owned 981 GT4 and 991.2 GT3 and I always thought GT3 motor in GT4 chassis would be the holy grail. They did it! GT4RS for the win 👌🏻
was waiting for this.. thx! cheers and keep up the good work!
Awesome vid sir. Can't wait to see a MR version of the GT4RS... Happy Holidays!
Fantastic video. Thank you professor Misha 🙏.
I love the GT4RS SO MUCH
For that size and how nimble it is this makes a nice little track monster
I would love to see the GT4RS vs Viper ACR duel tho
Thank you so much for the effort you put into these videos. Another really great video.
Nobody can do this analys better than you!! Great video man 💪💪
Great work man, thanks 4 sharing!
I think you are about to visit Manthey for a special presentation sometime in the near future.
I think I learned more about these cars in 30 mins watching your video and then reading the comments that it elicited than I could have in any other venue. Well done Misha
Misha, Thank you. A most excellent explanation of the cars and their differences.
I love how the Cayman GT4 RS looks.
Big money dream: a manual Gemballa modified off-road build
Singer has also a "offroad version thing", don't think its gated🤔 Save the manuals👍
Gemballa isnt the same, Id look to ruf instead
Fascinating video. Great analysis misha 🙂
Excellent video describing the differences. Well done.
Excellent video Misha! Love it
8:24 when your mate says your crush is ugly
This is a great analysis. On the matter of the pricing, if I remember right, Porsche is marketing the GT4 as an entry-level track car, so I think making its performance comparable to the GT3 is more about encouraging customers to go for the GT4RS. But, you're right in saying that Porsche isn't sandbagging the car by simply pointing out the difference in the chassis and suspension. Good work there.
yes not sandbagging but clearly gt3 has superior suspension and chassis
Cayman is sandbagged from the drawing board. What do you expect? Entry model of performance car outperforming it's flagship model? Come on...
Excellent comparison - well done Misha!
I bet he’s an ex Swiss Hillclimb Pro😎🏁
Misha, very intense. I’m glad I don’t have to make the choice.
That being said, would you be better off with a used MR GT3?
Pricing and overall drivability???
Really Great insight Misha. Thank you for sharing👍
Nice breakdown, that double wishbone suspension in the GT3 is really proving itself.
Great 👍
This guy eats, breaths and lives Nuhrburgring Racing...
Cant wait to see you win a race!!!
very good analysis Misha!
Great comparisons!
Woke up to this gem of a video. I am kinda still attracted to the GT3 at this point. As you said more time needs to pass for the GT4RS to settle in. Love the launch spec. Certainly an interesting one.
good video, also have to consider the gearing for the acceleration. With the GT4s lower top speed, yet less aero drag, you could assume that the GT4 has shorter gearing which helps acceleration.
Super Video Misha 👍
Great comparison,
All the suspensions and the engine of 718 GT4 RS come from 991.2 GT3 RS without rear steereng wheels
Not from 992 GT3
So the real comparison to do is 718 GT4 RS vs 991.2 GT3 RS
I loved Preuningers explanation on top gear to how they didn’t fully commit to absolute chasing lap times, but decided upon making the most fun backroad carver with the GT4RS. I’m probably attending 5-8 track days maximum per year, but I drive every week numerous backroad twisties. I think the GT4RS will be the best hooligan driver of the entire Porsche catalogue ever made, that’s why I’ve ordered one and specced it today in guards red with black magnesium wheels.
I’m can safely say I’m very jealous of you. Can I ask what you do for a living?
Very cool congratulations!
@@urbly2638 don’t be jealous. A lifetime of working my ass off but made some good decisions at a young age, nailed school and have tried my best not to be afraid of jumping on opportunities. Working as a specialist in the dental sector.
@@amazigh8776 thank you! Firs ever new Porsche purchase.
@@Nord_Mann Thanks for the reply I appriciate it. I’m a freshman at a city college right now. I have $6,000 ~ saved up with some invested in stocks. I have slacked this year in college. I plan on becoming a much more dedicated student, I have realized that it is definetly worth the effort.
Very well analysed be explained, Misha, thanks for that! This is the car everyone’s been waiting for ever since the very first Boxster was announced! 100% future classic!
Thanks for the info bro 👍🏼
Thank you Misha! Great vid.
I may not be a subscriber, but I’m compelled to comment. This was an excellent video.
GT3. In addition to suspension, it looks better both exterior and interior isn't outdated like the GT4
Good analysis...be great if they put all the high tech from the gt3 into the gt4, that would be oh so lovely
Great explanation of the differences between the cars. Is Manthey bringing out a version off the Gt4 RS?
Great job dude great job
12:59 Real delta within GT4 RS & 992 GT3 is 7 seconds.
Difference 10 km/h avg speed gives ~ 21 sec delta.
So avg speed delta just ~ 3km/h.
All numbers about Nürburgring.
Great comparison! As an owner of both the 991=GT3 and the 718 Cayman, I love them both! But, the suspension makes a big difference on the 992 GT3 as does the mid GT3 engine on the GT4 RS. I’m buying both.
Nice flex! :P
What do u do for a living¿
Great video! Thanks :)
Great synopsis. Thank you.
Great video Misha
I like you misha. Bcs you u/stand the engineering behind it & you know where is the weaknesses & stuff. Those things show the type of driver you are.
Absolutely phenomenal work in this video. Your skill to analyze the car's behavior in certain scenarios is amazing. In Dutch, we would say: lekker gewerkt pik!
Very nice explanation 👌
a great video.....good explainations......good comparison
Lo vi con traducción y la verdad lo mejor que e visto en cuento videos del gt4 rs 👏🏻👏🏻
I personally would prefer GT4 MR in manual, I don't need outright speed, I prefer enjoyment.
Me too. Plus I’m sure you can get at least 450hp out of it with some intake/tb/exhaust mods and a tune that will bump the redline a few hundred.
But the PDK is enjoyable, i love it as much as i love manuals
Very interesting! Thanks
Excellent comparison
In the comparisons the GT3 looked like a rolls royce over curbing compared to GT4RS lol. Great video Misha, always interesting.
How much does the engine placement affect the difference between the two? I assumed that the extra rotation from the rear engine layout in the 911 would make a noticeable difference with a confident driver.
Could the suspension setup be bettered by aftermarket products or with the fabrication of the car will it still be weaker?
I'm sure the air and engine can be improved and top the gt3 but can the track, tire size and better suspension parts top the gt3?
The gt3 is looking like the better option but I suppose it all comes down to which is a driving machine.
nice video. GT4 RS took a different line through Arenberg than GT3, I guess that further proves your point of GT3 handling a bit better so allowing for a more hight speed corner? Or maybe it's just different driver preferences?
More stability :)
What do you think off a white spec with blue wheels, interior and stickers?
Excellent analysis Misha. Was it a surprise to the Porsche community when we learned the GT4RS would come with the GT3 engine? I have a GT4 and the only speculation I have ever heard was additional tuning and mods to the existing GT4 4.0 engine.
Very good comparsion👍as always. I would take a gt4 rs for track, and a gt3 touring with manual as daily,... ....if i could 🤷♂️
Hi.I like your Videos very much.Thanks for that.What do you thinking now about your Video with the taped Airouttakes on the front fenders by the record run in your other Video?
As an owner of a completely carbon equipped 2016 GT4 (which incidentally, I was told was the last of the model !!! Ha!), I thoroughly enjoyed this technical presentation because based on the information I had on the lap times, I was convinced Porsche was sand bagging the GT4RS versus the GT3. This pretty convincingly explains the situation. Thank you! (But I still think a rear mounted engine is just plain wrong... please bring ALL the GT3 improvements into the GT4 package and then see what happens!)
Interesting. Still can't afford either of them. 😂 I'd go for the gt3 tho.
Surely the lower 0-200 time of the GT4 RS would be due to the shorter gearing?
Could be as well
@@mgcharoudin Gt3 is 10.8 0-200 in PDK , I think you read the manual numbers not the PDK
@@Sayyaaf could be miss type also, no way 1 second longer that's way too much downforce for only 200kmh.
GT4 RS is what I would take, if its a more involving drive, harder to get the best out of, then that makes it more rewarding. And its more unique, though I do still prefer the look of the new GT3, love it.
Gt4 instantly became my favorite Porsche and I'm glad that pretty much everything they could reasonably do to it to make it better with stuff already in house, they are doing. Not many car companies do that
Cool video 👍🏻
Thank you for the video. Very informative! I still think this car could go a lot faster with a better driver. However, you have clearly shown that the car is not very planted so that is a problem.. also I still remember you showing the differences in corner speed between GT4RS and GT4 MR. I just don’t get why the RS is so much slower than the MR. Imagine having the RS power with MR chassis and suspension!
Porsche has been “sandbagging” the Cayman ever since it first came out in one way or another. The first Cayman purposefully didn’t have a limited slip which according to a lot of people would have made it quicker than the base 911 in most cases at the time. I guess not fitting an LSD or having the old McPherson design is not really sandbagging but purposely making the car slower :D
I'm glad because it's still a better driving experience and it keeps the prices low because 911's are overhyped
Double wishbone incoming next gen
You keep forgetting about price here
They've done it for decades. Now with the Boxster/Cayman, in the 80's with the 944 turbo, in the 70's with the 914-6. Protect the 911 because of the profit margins (or it used to be, now that they're primarily an SUV company, that's where the big money is, and the Cayman won't encroach on Macan/Cayenne sales 😂)
The base 911 doesn't have limited slip diff either.
Great analysis as usual Misha👌🏼
Could you already find out why the louvers were covered on the GT4 RS record car?🤔
Nope. But I was told that the changes were compensated on the rear too.
The drive away price after I spec everything is actually 430K Aud, which is relatively close to the price of a 991.2 GT3 RS. I think it is really weird that the price is almost double of a 718 GT4, and I never expected that they put a new engine in the GT4 RS because the GT4 had a 992 Turbo engine stripped off the Turbo and made it a 4.0 litre. I thought they were only going to beef it up to 450 bhp because looking at the 991.2 GT3 and GT3 RS, they didn't have such a great difference in power. But the new GT4 RS has 80 more horsepower, which is a lot more than the normal 718 GT4, which is strangely insane for Porsche to do that. It's like a completely different car, I wonder if the 718 GT4 owners would feel been ripped off in that aspect.
Did you tick every single option? It's 300k before options
@@jezhopo7221 it's 238K without any options on mine for the GT4. My friend bought his GT4 last year for 260K with his own customized option. I customized everything on the GT4 RS I wanted and it's 430K, way more expensive than the GT4. I remembered the driveaway price difference for a 991.2 GT3 and GT3 RS was only about 60K without any options. This difference is way more for the GT4 and GT4 RS.
The new 992 with the exclusive design tail lights is 👌🏻. LOVE the look of the 992.
I thought last video you said there was some issue with braking and I think you illustrated the corner speeds of the MR GT4 were faster than the RS version. Seems like a lot of sandbagging of the RS to me? How does the MR GT4 corner speeds compare to the GT3?
Do we have gear ratio figures for these cars? That might explain discrepancies in acceleration and top speed.
Tyre and suspension system makes the difference between GT4 RS and GT3. Every Car has its own Character. Can't wait for GT3 RS Debut. Excellent Reviews 🤘
Superb content
This makes it look like there was more time in the GT3. GT4RS looks on the ragged limit so I do think it is close to its best time.
I saw the realease before this video amd was hoping Misha would react to it! Also the main thought in my head is what can Manthey-Racing can do with it 😈I'm excited to see!
I have a 991.1 RS and was on the list at my OPC to get a 992 GT3 but have switched to the 4RS. I did this because I will likely get a 4RS sooner and I think it will be sufficiently different to the 3RS I currently have to warrant keeping them both. My driving is both on the road and on track.
Perfect, and after having had several 911’s, the 4RS feels refreshing as I find the inherent differences between generations of 911’s quite small.
Misha your pec game is strong today!
What’s the Co of drag on both?
Routing of the exhausts would be different and perhaps more back pressure for the Cayman. Same for the intake - hard to say. Call it even.
Good review.
Just one very obvious question...will the factory update the GT4 RS with the (double wish bone front and multi-kink rear) suspension from the GT3?
They likely wouldn't be able to - even if they wanted to - until the next generation, due to having to re-engineer the mounting points on the chassis.
I'm sure there will be a MR package for the GT4 RS which will have 3-way adjustable shocks. It will be interesting to see what time that car sets with a pro driver.
Great video. The GT4RS is amazing and so much better then the car it replaced, however the GT3 is just phenomenal and the better track car right now.
Большое спасибо! Всё предельно понятно по полочкам разложил.
Why is the corner speed much slower than GT4 MR.Maybe same lap times as GT3 with MR package?
The lap time of 7:04 on the Ring for the GT4RS is a hint of what the car has to offer.
Great analysis, loved the comparison between the cars. Here's a question for @MishaCharoudin: if Manthey managed to convert the gt4 rs to double wishbone front and multi link rear suspension of the GT3 would it destroy the GT3's laptime without that GT3's aero?
Yes, but you can't just convert suspension setup.
@@mgcharoudin I know, but just wanted your view as to where the biggest advantage comes from as I suspected it would be the suspension not the aero. So I would get the Cayman if I had to choose. I could maybe improve the suspension, I could maybe improve the aero, but it's faster in every situation except in the hands of a pro (which I am certainly not).
@@W0o0dy fun fact. 99% of owners don’t get within 80% of the cars capabilities, and instead of improving their driving they throw money at the “problem”.
@@3xc1t3r we will have to do something about that for sure😃
Going to sign a GT4RS with Weissach package (but without the wheels) today while coming from an manual 2022 GT4 MR.
I think the RS gives me what the GT4 MR lacks - 80 PS more to pass slower cars like the GT3 does on the ring. Together with an future MR suspension upgrade (and maybe a coming aero kit by MR) it will give those GT3s a very hard time.
And as you stated - it's definetly a better investment than a 992 GT3. Fewer will be build, it's more rare. And it delivers more excitement (at least for me). Those intakes right at the ear. My wife will hate it. ;)
Damn, hard choice! I like them both a lot, good thing I dont have to choose :P
Just wondering if the GT4 RS has the upgraded front suspension as on the GT3? Sure would help turn in.
No
Driver in GT4RS is very nervous going on the throttle after braking - to rotate the car?
I agree... Starting with where the Boxster/Cayman is positioned in the line up in the first place.
Sure it's the car that saved Porsche one time, but still.
The 911 is what makes the brand and the GT4 RS is clearls positioned below that and btw.. We still got the GT3 RS to come.
Thanks Misha for the analysis. 🙌🏻
.....i'll take either so long as you'll coach me around the 'Ring until i have it memorized!!
SInce you asked what I would prefer, the GT4 RS with the GT3 front suspension.
This was mindblowingly great analysis. I wish there could be a segment dedicated to this EXACT play by play dissection. This one video cleared a whole lot SPECULATION up in a scientific approach. This actually showed why some cars are faster and others are not. Excellent.