The "Butchered" Genie - Part 3 (Platform Controls)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- After taking care of the stalling problem in Part 2, let's tear all the "CUSTOM" wiring out and restore the factory platform controls!
Along the way we discover a couple issues that prompted the previous owner to resort to such drastic measures.
The results are quite satisfying :)
Part 1: • The "Butchered" Genie ...
Part 2: • The "Butchered" Genie ...
AstroAI DVOM:
www.amazon.com...
Enjoy!
Ivan
Amazing that you can figure out that bowl of spaghetti.....awesome....great job....
I’ve been meaning to ask this: Every time Ivan says “Ground control”, does anyone else start singing “Ground Control To Major Tom” or is it just me?
Scott Pardee no you’re not alone 😅
Its impressive how you methodically work your way through that unbelievable hack job of wires... One circuit at a time... Thanks for your time producing these videos...
My pleasure! It was a Genie marathon lol
That was great fix! Almost to oem stuff!! 1 step forward, 2 steps backwards. But you got there quickly! Great video! Can't wait for the part 4!!!
The gift that keeps on giving, a powered lift!
Great job fixing other peoples sloppy work. Reminds me of the RV you fixed for the old guy.
What a nightmare, Ivan you are the man, and patient! I know who to call for an electronic birds nest, great work!
I predict we're going to be seeing alot of this property in the future - there's a Silverado in the garage!! A treasure-trove of diagnostic videos on the way ... 😂
LOL. Mystery ballast resistor. Wire nuts. Was that headphone jack? Where are the Scotch Locks?
I'm amazed that you were able to repair that hopeless tangle of wires.
It's amazing that it only had one actual problem with the secondary boom that was solved by a 1 inch extra wire 😅
How many people would load up the parts canon with a 1 inch piece of wire?
@@lolzlarkin3059 -- It would have been interesting to see the owner's reaction to Ivan's bill: several hours of diagnosis ... and 1 inch of wire. :)
On to the next problem.
There maybe several broken wires in the boom cable and they may not open until the boom is all the way out and up, stretching the cable. That could be why it will function where you had it but not up in the extended-high in the air postioins. Great work. You are at your best with the trouble shooting and using the diagram to deduce the problems!
That would be my guess or hypothesis. The boom wire harness is junk and should be replaced or rewired if not available. Another wiring problem is bound to happen soon.
You know it’s about to get real when Ivan has no shirt on.
" LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLLLLLLLLE ".
ROTFLOL
You should probably replace the light bulb resistor with a real resistor, or at the very least, install a socket for the bulb and a note on the cover explaining what you did to future operators/mechanics.
Nobody explained anything to Ivan
@@opl500 Two wrongs don't make a right!
@@opl500 an eye for an eye leaves the world blind
@@opl500 also, Ivans probably the next guy on this thing if the owner keeps it
Wouldn't the light bulb be considered after market crap (to us his own words)? Put a resister in there!
I have worked on these old lifts that were built before communicating devices were normal. The typical hydraulic mechanic somewhat understands the need to power a hydraulic solenoid or relay AND usually does not have a drawing. The drawings are generally complex with interlocks so the hyd mechanic just hot wires the failed circuit. Sometimes extra switches are added in an effort to include a manual interlock when the built-in have been bypassed. Often the first problem is low voltage on 12v circuits combined with long wire lengths and exposed electrical boxes left out in the rain. Sometimes its bad batteries, alternators that have failed, corroded grounds on the alternator to chassis, etc. In the last ten years, the manufacturers have gone to higher voltage controls and electrically simpler communicating systems with trouble codes. Not standard, but still some help. Finally I would replace the bulb with an appropriate resistor, markup the drawing by hand and scan it into a pdf for an electronic record of that machine. Leave a hardcopy and emailed file for the customer.
I love this kind of content ,because this is the kind of stuff i deal with all the time, THANK YOU
those circuit boards in the boom control box are to change the input of the controls to a pwm signal so the solenoids dont burn up from constant current, especially the flow control valve. on the joystick the those limit switches turn on the boards(two switches piggybacked, one for each direction) and the potentiometers allow for variable control. there are trimmers on the boards to fine adjust the slew rates. if i remember correctly 10 volts is the desired maximum output to the sollenoids. those boards were so bad we kept a spare of each on hand.
You are very correct. The soleniod has a operating (start current “threshold” and max current “max out” current which run at a certain frequency to mitigate stictition within the spool valve. So outputs should really be measured in series in mA.
A couple of thoughts:
1. Replace the bulb with an appropriate value resistor. Vibrations could cause the bulb filament to open.
2. Repeat all test with boom fully extended. There could be broken wires that open when the wire loom is pulled straight.
3. Seal the holes where the switches were that you removed.
The zip tie and wire nut Genie. The hallmark of dependability!
Probably someone working without a wiring diagram. Nice work
"We don't like aftermarket stuff" Crams a lightbulb in for a resistor.
I don't like aftermarket stuff that doesn't work haha! Lightbulb is very reliable and will last the lifetime of this Genie. Plus if it burns out in 10 years it will be very easy to diagnose and replace :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Why not put in a resistor?
@Jeff Larocque You are so correct!
Someone went through a lot of effort to completely wreck this thing rather than fixing the simple problems.
Ivan you did it again i'm amazed watching you thank you
The resistor looks like off an old Dodge Dart, like 1973 on ignition wire.
I've seen similar on old Ford tractors, like the 6v 631. I've also seen these on heated grips for ATVs & dirt bikes / motorcycles for the low setting. I installed a set on my snowblower - the vibration was too much for the resistor. It cracked, shorted, and almost started a small fire! LOL
Grandma's Malibu - I remember, and miss the simplicity badly! Stuff was built so much better back then. We can barely get wire to function much outside of warranty these days ... and that’s INSIDE the vehicle with zero heat, water, or vibration. 😂
I thought the same thing!!
It's a ballast resistor from Chrysler products and was also used on early (1976) electronic ignition systems. They could have one of two symptoms when they went bad. Either the engine would crank and not start but fire when you released the key or the opposite. It would crank and start but die when you released the key. Always kept spares in the service station truck for road calls.
Looks like an ignition coil resistor, yes.
dude THANK YOU! Your info has helped me with my 45/22 I had the same wiring night mare somebody did a job on it. At one point I was trying to find the black TB7 wire it was cut off right at the wiring harness.
Nice!
And on to part 4 & I HOPE IT'S THE LAST PART. This things engine running gives me a headache & I can't imagine fixing it as Ivan is doing.
To answer your question, "why did they do all this crap when all the wiring is fine?" Answer: because they didn't know what they were doing!
Doesn't answer the question why Ivan was "troubleshooting" a modified system symptom by symptom in Part 2.
He didn't listen to what the customer asked him to do - to make it "run like new".
BASIC troubleshooting when something modded doesn't work after modification is to FIRST reverse the modification.
the wiring may not all be fine and in fact very likely isn't when ran throughout full extension and range of the boom. pretty typical for the umbilical wiring to break down inside, works great here and there, hit a certain spot and you'll go open circuit or high resistance, sometimes even short from wire to wire
The umbilical wiring is shot and is just going to get worse with use. Bypassing the current draw to the other side of the relay for the fuel pump decreases the drop, but that’s not a long term fix since the resistance is going to increase with flexing. Working and maintainable are two different things. The next guy is going to be like “WTF, Ivan!? A light bulb!?”.
Excellent return to OEM . Safety liability issues if modified.
Lower drive must be in slow creep speed when basket and boom is up.
Micro switches in boom tell drive to be in creep mode or very dangerous situation if in high drive speed.
Also lower has that electronic level sensor on front right base of turntable which stops function if out if level 3° +-.
Alot of contractors fiddle with that vto override safety to go on slopes rough ground hills to boom up ..
I started working owning renting using these in 1986.
I was also going to comment -- most of these have a "Turbo" mode that will return to idle when your foot is OFF the safety and ramp it back up the moment you step on the safety switch. It's been a couple years since I've rented one, though....
some humans operate on a different frequency ,, Ivan is one of those people.,. gifted and using his gift to fix the things the not so gifted have destroyed., haha that type of challenge would have me sweating like the devil in church.!
Obviously Ivan was sweating through the problem as he yanked his shirt off. What amazes me is he does house calls in different states. I am sure he is racking in some decent cash for his efforts along with generating unique content which translates to cash as well. Who else can they call to actually REPAIR older construction equipment like this?
The mystery resistor looks like an old school ballast resistor for late 60's to early 70's Mopar. First electronic ignition for them.
On the majority of boom lifts you have a automatic two stage speed control for when you are up in the air (slow mode) verses lower down (fast), controlled via limit switched in/on the boom itself, (maybe that's the "spare wires") I would be very careful about bypassing the speed control stages as this is for safety.
Very impressive. Thanks Ivan!
Thanks John! I was working against the clock on this one so the end was a bit rushed :)
What happened to the original platform controls panel to necessitate the DIY platform controls panel? THHN and wire nuts are a sure sign an electrician and/or handyman was there before, THHN is good for houses but not equipment or vehicles. Great video, Ivan!
Chris Rodriguez it looks like all the mods were to get the machine to exceed its design limits by routing power around built in limit switches
The guy who did this probably thought that he was really smart to get it to work like this. The current owner is sure lucky you are there to fix it correctly.
when I was an hvac contractor and ran into this type of hacking I would get nauseous.. especially when almost every wire in a panel is the same color and your on top of a building alone working on three phase voltage. one mistake and your fried !!
This thing is a career..
I can't believe you're tearing apart my Masterpiece... Do you know how long it took me to customize it? _ The Butcher_
""2nd black wire was from horn control"" I can just imagine how that was discovered, when connected or powered on HONK/BUZZZZ/BEEEP and a half summersault/backflip occurred whilst poo-juice was emitted into drawers :)) been there done that
Keep up the good work
Perhaps the previous repairs for the voltage drop issue used an override switch because of current draw concerns when using another feed.
It does look like a bad case of 'just get it fixed'.
Must have been hard leaving any dodgy but working wiring.
Ivan,this relic needs to have a new harness installed or at least get rid of those house wiring wire nuts. You can retire on this piece of equipment 😂
"Twistie Tie" is an Ivanism 😜 . They are "wire nuts" in the US, and "Marrettes" in Canada. Whatever you want to call them, they are totally inappropriate for automotive equipment.
Few things are more frustrating than having to figure out and then undo what some moron did before you got there.
After seeing how speshul that crane is, I wouldn't give that customer your "no comeback" guarantee, because that sucker is likely to - come back.
speshul........wtf?
@@anderleof A fitting description of the wiring mods.
I watched all the videos and a few others of yours. Where did you get your leads for your meter? I found the back props on your Amazon link. I could have seen it wrong but it seems you use your meter leads as jumper wires with the "test lights" tail light bulbs
They are the Snap-On meter leads :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics thanks. I like how you can piggyback off them so you can use your meter on the same connector
Lost comprehension after a couple of minutes 😵 Enjoyed the rest of the video ,anyway !
You’re a genius bro
very talented man, a genius when it comes to monkey wiring, great videos all the time.
The next mod I want to see on this is a rope ladder tied to the platform. Then when it breaks down the operator can climb down and fix it
27:13 verify the switch works, never assume it's good with test light only and one or two toggle throws, unless you have eagle eyes on bulb intensity (put a meter in parallel if unsure) and cycle it on and off slowly 10+ times. yeah hard learned lessons of the past ;)
looks like a ballast resister off old style ignition system
Let me hear that horn !
The flow control valve is meant to be proportional. The circuit board on the controller SHOULD vary in output (A terminal) and typical is a PWM current (depending on which solenoid they are using). There is small trim pots on the circuit board to adjust your threshold (start current when joystick is moved slightly of center) and max out (full current for fast speed when the joystick is at full stroke.
Good point. I'll have to play around with the trims 👍
Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics . Ivan if you want give me the part number of the joysticks. Dual axis should start with EJS5 and single should start with EMS4. Should be a label on each. I can did up what the current output specs should be.
Hopefully you left "As Built" information on drawing.
Nice, the old vacuum tube mod.
A lightbulb as a current limiting resistor.
Thanks!
What would you do without wiring diagrams there just brilliant especially on something that is as complex as that lift
Neil Murphy They’re not there.
@@mossyb1434 ?
Sometimes you don't have diagrams or the manufacturer wants to sell fuzzy old scans to you that are often partially incomplete as this one was. JLG is a case in point with 90's machines that were designed on obsolete cad systems. At that point you have to reverse engineer the logic. The original "contact tracing".
It may just be a case of the original 10 ohm resistor was at fault and someone’s ambition outweighed their skills?
Do you document the changes you have made by drawing them on the diagram and leaving it with the equipment?
So i'm a bit confused about the light bulb. Did you not take off a 2A resistor and replace it with a 2A light-bulb?
Beautiful mind!
By the way you have group of hatters that following you all over the webside🤣
Did Keith already establish somewhere?
Hope the horn will work, needs it when driving in town LOL
uh-oh, what happened. I'm sure we'll be very acquainted with that phrase on that unit lol
It's a wire nut, a twisty-tie is a plastic coated wire used to keep bread bags closed by some bakeries, don't know where you got that reference from but it's WRONG, as noted by a ren & stimpy character.
" WHO EVER PUT THIS THERE SHOULD BE FIRED ", LMFAO. I hope this person was not PAID to do this MESS.
Probably, sigh! Hope he is LONG gone!
Great video
It would appear that the person that made the wiring changes used the russian roulette method of wiring either not having a schematic and or perhaps no understanding of circuits. Plug and unplug wires , change connections at random until it sort of seems to work trying to solve the new problems that they created as they went.. (better add a switch here, a button there).
It's quite comical really, however I do feel sorry for the owner having to go to the extra expense of having Ivan sort it all out.
Well Fred, when a "Russian" screws things up you need a better Russian to fix it, voila Ivan in Ohio!
@@BobPegram Now if we could just all chip in to buy Ivan a few shirts.
@@fredflintstone8048 I got plenty of shirts haha
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Ivan if I didn't have a DAD BOD. I would take my shirt off too. I'M REALLY JUST FAT.
It seems like the bypass buttons where supposed to supply full voltage to get maximum speed on every function. Then they shorted something out and just tried to get it to work, lol.
Ivan how do expect the wire nut and toggle switch manufactures to stay in business. LOL. Sometimes they just work to hard to solve a problem. Instead of using the computer between your ears.
Hey there
I have a question. I own same machine as in your vid. My question is why do you think all three booms r super slow n drive is slow as all hell untill u head down hill. It's unpredictable lol I came off truck way to fast and almost shit the bed on that one. Mayb we can chat more if u could help
Nice
I believe you don't need to start the engine to diagnose electrical control signals in these things just have the estops out I think.
Looks like a 2ohm 10-20 watt resistor from a crt TV, was common. If you have to pay to find the guy who wired this it would be worth it to belt him in the gut.
Nah, the owner of the machine gets that honor!
Why did they install all that silly wiring when it was easier to just fix it probably
Ivan 1 bulb to slow bottom rotation with resistance, and 1 bulb to add amp to speed up the other?
those old terminal strips/connectors can back off or have terminal fretting from vibration and break connection. I wouldn't assume the wire nut slinger was wrong and reconnect said terminals.
around mid 90's (when I was late teens to 20's) there were many bad junk materials plagued upon us, pushed and put into everything from then forward, from base materials to electronics (bad capacitor anyone?) I have flat grown tired of all the fudge, so here I complain ;)
You can't just bypass the control cards on those machines as the card controls the proportional controllers.
Adjust the outputs to the flow control valves with the trim pots on the control boards.
It may seem to be operating slow but when you are working at 45' up the speed its at now will be far to fast.
The bad repairs haven't been repaired properly its just been made to work
Failing that just replace the
What happens if the light bulb element burns out? I think this Genie needs some replacement parts such as the foot switch and main panel switches (if they are available). Why the tool electrician did all of those wire nut hacks and messed with the boom control panel is odd, maybe he custom wired the Genie to do movements the original design did not do? Likely he was on a job that needed this Genie to stand on its legs? LOL. Fired is right Ivan.
I have a 98 genie z45-22 with the ford gas engine similar to this. I have a problem when you drive weather it be slow speed or fast as soon as you hit the turn button right or left on the joystick it slams to a stop and makes it almost impossible to drive. It also is slow up and down for the secondary and swing speed is also slow. The book shows small pot screws that can be adjusted to increase or decrease speed of that function.
The pot screws are on the circuit boards on the control handle
What bulb amps did you use to on the first and second on the flow control
All the Diodes are the cause for the voltage drop
DUH. That should have been the start of part 2 when the customer asked to make it like new.
Exactly what is bulb reducing current too? Obviously not the drive motor itself.
the flow control valve, i think! 😅
The proportional flow control soleniod. Soleniod moves the valve spool a certain amount below the the max current to slow the speed down (in this case hydraulic flow)
You just know it didn't look like that when it was new. LOL
Hi my friend I'm working in one and it's only going to high speed low speed how can I check that and found out diagram where did you get it can you tell me please thank you I know it happened a little box in the hydraulics and it's got like a filter and I think that's the one that got stuck in there but I need to know how can I pull the stuff out if you
Like #456
Thanks for the video!
I missed WELCOME EVERYBODY. CHEERS
WELCOME BACK TO PINE HOLLOW AUTO DIAGNOSTICS! :)
boom!
lift!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics good one
Nothing like a good circuit diagram , just hate when the wire goes into one of those un diagramed circuit boards. And they all cost waaaaay to much LOL
Such a screwed up contol system, years of bodging .
I'm supprised it didn't have a wiring fire.
Run away while you can :-D
I need your help I got A genie 45/22 giving me hell!!
I have to know...does the horn work? The Genie needs a horn.
I got the control and relay to click, but the horn itself was dead lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Needs a new horn perhaps?
Привет Иван! Услышал от тебя не знакомую, не понятную мне фразу. Прозвучала 24:06. Титры пишут как sweet arama :) Переведи пожалуйста. Учим английский с сыном...
Титры, наверное ошиблись, скорее всего нужно понимать как - приятный аромат?
We have one of these for work. It has all kinds of problems. Sadly we cant find anyone to fix.
Do y'all still own it
@Renie Carrizales yep still have it. we actually ended up finding someone to fix eventually. Replaced control panel. Did a good job. Hard to find good people.
Don't get it yet? My brother would cut wires and rig to get it to work in less time than we would have in it to get it right from the start without a diagram.
To see why the horn does not work for safety reasons
You need to replace all of that old fashioned wire with an arduino and a tablet.
how can i get manuals for genie S125
what happens when the bulb blows wouldn't it be better to make replaceable
Bulb won't blow for 15 years...it rarely lights up, and only at reduced brightness :)
@Jeff Larocque nothing wrong with a hack if it's functional and reliable 👍😁
Who knows, maybe there's damage in the wire harness and it causes problems at certain positions so they moved things around? It's hard to look at a field repair and read the mind of the technician that did it.
And this the machine is S40 thank you if you let me know what you think thank you God bless you
Twisty tie = wire nut.