An Unnecessary Continuation of How Not to Carry Out an Amphibious Assault in the 18th Century
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- Опубліковано 23 лип 2024
- At the end of my first video on this topic I mentioned that there remained plenty of errors to warrant another series of rants and rambles, should such a thing be desired. Well, for an inexplicable reason, the last video seems to have been enjoyed, and so here we are. Another set of just under 20 minutes of me complaining about how horrid this scene is. The funny thing is, that this video was originally meant to be around eleven minutes much like its predecessor. Except I had to actually cut out a lot of material that I wanted to discuss in this one!
In this video, I end up discussing (among other topics), the use of swivel-guns by boat crews in naval actions, the differences between a Doglock and a traditional Flintlock, and very briefly the construction of fortifications in the 18th Century.
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It's like that time I was watching a ww2 documentary then i saw an m16
What documentary was that?
Lolwut?
Link plz? I wanna see that shit. It sounds... good...?
Sean Mac pls link
Plz give us link
@@mattaffenit9898 Yes, Good, in a Bad way, If that makes Sense lol.
Just found your channel, really liking your videos!
Griff
Thank you!
Eyyyyy!!! Heyo Griff, love your vids!
YOOOOOO
@Kato Ho Ten Soeng and years later from this comment they would meet up
ARMCHAIR!
I still think it's silly that the English are carrying nepoleonic infantry sabers and not a English patterned hanger.
muh spadroon
Yeah, those are French briquettes, or an approximation thereof. I don't think there was a standard pattern hanger at the time, though.
i think the first pattern the army adopted was something like the 1742 infantry hanger. if i remember right the pattern of hanger was left up to the colonel to decide.
I think it's silly you are calling them English and not British
@@martind5565 They are English. There were only the Scots and the English in the United Kingdom in 1720 (the film's plot). The Scots regiment wore a tartan or other sort of designation that they are not English. Scots and Englishmen are not very friendly to each other and neither of them want to be considered similar. They are definitely English in terms of uniform and British culture back then.
According to the 1985 documentary film "Revolution", the large beach was necessary due to the spacing used by the British infantry when deployed in three ranks, though some experts might argue that the beach was not big enough for proper British tactics.
Fancy seeing you here, nusensei
Canon balls might bounce on wet sand, but higher up the beach on dry sand they would simply be absorbed.
You are entirely correct in suggesting that swivel-guns on the landing ships (or bring the sloop in closer) using canister shot would have decimated the pirate defenders.
Would they really be that effective?
Given the angle they were coming in from, I can't imagine a few swivel guns with canister shells having such a dramatic impact on the fight. I'd imagine you might kill/maim a few pirates, though given their low profile & copious amounts of cover; not to mention you'd also have your own troops stepping onto the beach; I don't think they would be such a game changer.
Not saying they wouldn't be of help; you might save a few British lives, but I doubt they'd make a significant difference.
@@SinerAthin if they used solid shot it would have. That wood is brittle, its drift wood mostly (makes no sense, they have TREES) but still. Would have worked as a support weapon until the infantry formed up
Swivel guns don't have that sort of range, their primary use was to sweep the decks of enemy ships prior to boarding & as deterrent against small boats.
@trashthlete8776Hornblower¨TV series
The story (based on treasure island by RL Stevenson) is that the island being defended here is a far flung island off the trade routes which has an inland secret settlement of escaped slaves. The pirates are in league with these Maroons in a war against the British who are trying to reclaim Nassau from the Pirates. This battle precedes a later battle on the Bahamas for Nassau. Hence why no established settlement and the makeshift defences.
It must also be remembered that it is a semi pornographic pop culture retelling of a 19th century novel.
Chris Ryan you had me at 'semi pornographic'
you lost me at "semi pornographic"
its not even a retelling of that novel. It is sort of a prequel.
I remember watching the first episode and counting several sex scenes. It kinda made me question whether the show was trying too hard to show that it's adult.
The excessive amount of nudity in the first few episodes of season one seems to have turned off quite a lot of people. I believe this episode takes place at the end of season three, where the sex and nudity had been tuned way down.
Hello everyone! My apologies this video took a bit longer to come out, as I became a bit distracted with 'real life' things last week that rather put a spin on things. This period of relative absence on my part also happened to come at a time of unprecedented growth for 'the channel,' which has been absolutely brilliant as there's been anywhere from 20 to 50 subscribers coming in nearly daily for the better part of a fortnight! But, sadly, that means that I fell majorly behind on comments and I'm beginning to realize that, at the rate they are starting to come in, I may not be able to respond to them all as readily or consistently as I once have.
So, I will make the announcement here, I am no longer going to consider myself 'obliged' to respond to every single comment as I previously have. Naturally I'll still be getting to as many as I can, but a lot more will be slipping through that net. Of course I will still be reading them all! I appreciate dearly everything that is left for me to read, from video requests and song recommendations to personal stories and historical trivia. Well, mostly everything (I could do without the occasional threat of violence- rather puts a damper on things, eh?)
As always, if you want to get hold of me more directly, send a private message my way here on UA-cam! I tend to offer far more in-depth and detailed answers/responses for those anyways. You can also reach me through the (still terribly inactive) Steam group, and now through a Discord server as well! You can see the details to that in the description of this video! Thank you everyone, and as always I am, and so shall remain,
Your Most Humble & Obedient of Servants,
Brandon
Brandon F. hey mate, can you do a video on fifeing and instruments?
please do a video about Tarleton's legion.
Brandon F. I have a question how does the hand grenade looks like in the time of napoleonic era And how did the use it in in combat(french I mpireal grenadiers)? I find you video’s verry informative and amusing!
Grenades were not really used by the Napoleonic Wars. The designation of 'Grenadier' was purely an honorific by that time. Though, you might expect to see some grenades thrown in sieges and the like. When they were used in the field, the grenade would look like a simple, miniature cannon shot, with a small fuse to the gunpowder inside.
No worries
Well, when Michael Bay is attached to a historically adapted drama series, you know that historical inaccuracies will occur.
So that's why there were dozens of explosions at the 1983 chess tournament by Michael Bay.
Gotta give it credit during the man-o-war attack in season 1 there were no explosive cannonballs. The basic plan of attacking a man-of-war which would supposedly be filled with gold and have less men and cannons than usual due to the hidden cargo wasn't so bad, specially tricking it to get attacked from both side. And the twist that it wasn't the right ship followed by the complete annihilation of the two attacking ships is just a guilty pleasure.
Bear in mind that the standard for pirate show at the time was Pirates of the Caribbean. Overall the show, although still filled with historical mistakes is still a decent show.
11:14 I believe there's actually this odd idea in pop culture that swivel guns were used solely by pirates, no exceptions.
It's this weird idea that Pirate weapons are unique, when all of them are taken from conventional naval weapons-the cutlass? That's just a sailor's hangar, which started out as a hunting sword.
Being a mortarman in the army I can tell you we never hit a target on the first shot. We use bracketing. The first shot is usually long the second short and the third is usually on target or close enough to do damage.
Unless the baseplate sinks into the ground so you have to re-lay each round. Happened to me on an exercise on the Brecon Beacons in an area which was marshy and had a lot of spots which were just peat, but I agree with your basic point.
@@Dav1Gv yeah i didnt have to much of that problem. Mostly shot out of Strykers with 120mm and the 60 dont sink that much even on mushy ground.
@@slice1419 My experience was back in the 1960s with a 3 inch mortar. Glad to hear weapons have improved, if Putin keeps coming west we may need them.
@@Dav1Gv No joke though
Taking this thing from the complete opposite side- take a minute to consider the work that went in to staging this scene. And the money. Hundreds of uniforms, muskets, the boats, the cannons- not to mention the time it would take to train up all these extras to load and fire these weapons. And all the stunt men who have to be close (or under) things that go bang. This must have been a huge undertaking. Having seen what goes in to the most innocuous crowd scene - lots of TV shows like "Riverdale" are shot near where I live- my hat is off to anyone who would even attempt something on this scale.
I just love the idea of trying to glorify pirates, you know the people who only made a living by stealing, murdering, making trading routes dangerous, killing simple merchants trying to make a living, the "good guys" because they wanted to be "free."
What are you talking about? With all my knowledge gained by watching Historically accurate films tells me the Pirates are the good guys. My, my stop talking out of your ass.
*Pirates of the Caribbean*
Pirates were historically nuanced. A great deal of the rape and murder and such has been over-exaggerated due to the film industry as well as books such as Treasure Island. Now, don't get me wrong, many pirates such as Charles Vane were horrific monsters and most pirates were certainly not good people but to be fair, neither were any soldiers in service to the crown. And that's exactly who pirates are, sailors and marines and soldiers who, when left out in the cold and refused to given work by the governments that didn't want to support their veterans (or Hell, not even telling them that the wars were over in Captain Kidd's case), the men turned to the only option they had. Not to mention the women who engaged in piracy in order to escape the highly sexist social order, many many many escaped slaves who became pirates to avoid being worked to death of plantations, and even Blackbeard the most famous pirate of all, rarely ever killed or injured anyone as he would rely on fear tactics and intentionally kept merchant and even navy crews alive. The final point is that there was an entire colony set up by pirates in Nassau, New Providence, Bahamas that was an Anarcho-Capitalist nation-state and the most democratic place in the entire world at it's time. Many pirates were nothing more than barbarians, yes. The same goes for most of the soldiers of the day to be entirely fair. Pirates were most soldiers/sailors/marines with no line of work for their skills, the desperate like women and escaped slaves, and people who knew that the crown was worse then they are and went into business for themselves.
You know what they say about pirates... A pirate in Spain is a hero in England. And the reverse...
Collin Woodard's Republic of Pirates shows reality of life and history of piracy. It's based on British and Spanish archives, and shows how big social inequalities and tragedy of poor people serving in navy. Piracy was sometimes only way to defy it.
Brandon is like that a guy who likes the empire in Star wars
Thank you for making this. As someone writing something in a historical setting, you have reminded me of the importance of historical accuracy. Although a different setting, the effect is the same. Keep it up!
You may be interested in my video about why I'm so pedantic in my reviews, then. And thank you!
Another inaccuracy is the flags carried by the British. The flags shown are clearly representing regimental colours, a king's colour and regimental colour. (the regimental colour being the colour of the regiment's facings which in this case is red but the flag is white, which makes this inaccuracy inaccurate) However this practice which still forms the basis of regimental colours in the British Army, was not introduced until 1747. Before that the British land forces continued the 17th century practice of company colours, one flag for each company. Although by 1707 only the flags of the Colonels, Lt Cols and Majors companies were generally used. The Colonel's company's flag was a plain field with a badge of some sort, The Lt Col's company flag was since 1707 a Union Flag again with a badge in the centre, and the Major's Company flag was the same as the Lt Col's flag but with a streamer in the upper canton. So if the British force is one company it should only have one flag (assuming its one of the three companies mentioned), if it is supposed to be more the entire regiment they should have three, flags spaced out with their respective companies. Not the two flags together as that is more akin to the practice introduced in 1747.
You, my good sir, have earned yourself a subscriber! Could you perhaps do videos about British ships or the Royal Marines?
Absolutely! I have a list already laid out!
Had I been building the defenses, I would have set further back into the treeline...The attackers would have had a harder time seeing the defenders and the trees would provide more protection against bullets and projectiles...The defenders could also mask movement along interior lines and possibly allow men to deploy secretly and harrass the attackers on their flanks
Oh boy, this channel is a hidden gem. Subbed and ready to go through the backlog.
Thank you! And, there's enough backlog to make anyone sick of hearing my voice, don't you worry.
I'm glad I found your channel, my imperial servant. I've been interested in what the world was like before the 20th century, and you're channel is an excellent source of information and entertainment. May the sun only set on you when you want it to.
Thank you! And I'm delighted that you find such use in it!
I enjoyed the comments on the historical inaccuracies. But your comments on the series only reflect that you are talking about something you haven’t seen. The pirates weren’t shown as the ‘good guys’. They were shown as people doing what they thought were right for them. The British were shown in the same manner. There wasn’t any good guys/ bad guys. The reason for the defense and the uninhabited island are also explained in the show.
Found your channel yesterday. I’ve been going through your catalogue of videos, great work keep it up!
While watching this marvellous video I was wondering if you're going to talk about the uniforms
I'd probably be here for a few hours! But, in fairness, I don't know terribly much about the uniform specifics from this period, so it'd require a lot of extra research to discuss it all in full.
The uniforms aren't terrible based on my little research. In fact now that I think about it they're actually pretty damn good considering just about everyone fucks it up like Pirates of the Caribbean.
First off at the beginning of the 1700s Britain, which was very recently England, had no formal Royal Marines. Rather they had maritime regiments of foot, most notably Duke of York and Albany's maritime regiment of Foot from the 1600s. During this time period military uniforms represented different regiments, so outside of them being red not much can be said to the historical accuracy of whatever regiment they're suppose to be. However the historical advisor did their job. They had knee length justacorps "jackets" over knee length waistcoats which was common in the early 1700s along with a knee length undershirt/gown with a black neck tie. They're also wearing breeches with canvas gaitors which is accurate for this time period. cdn2us.denofgeek.com/sites/denofgeekus/files/2016/03/black_sails_red_coats.jpg Some scenes do show them with equine boots which is wrong for a maritime regiment of foot. They're also wearing the correct cocked hats with white trim and a black cockade.
Further proof the advisor did their job is in their accoutrements. More than likely they should have been buffed leather instead of black, but they're wearing fairly correct English pattern sword belts. The sword they are carrying would have been considered a "hanger" but my research can not pinpoint a specific model or standard hanger. For whatever reason they have their cartridge box on their sword belt when they should have had a separate baldric for it. www.farfarawaysite.com/section/blacksails/gallery3/gallery10/hires/12.jpg But something very interesting and probably the single biggest proof someone did their research in a few shots it shows a plug bayonet on their sword belt, which would have been correct for a unit not given the new socket bayonet. England was one of the last countries to switch to the socket bayonet. nerdreactor.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/BSE7-1.jpg Unfortunately they don't have the right muskets. At that time they would have had doglock muskets unless that particular maritime regiment were issued naval pattern muskets, which would have probably been doglocks with brass fittings. Britain was late adopting the true flintlock. The muskets they have look like British Sea Service muskets circa mid 1700s.
You can look up the War of the Spanish Succession which was fought about 1702 - 1712 which will give you a fair idea of English/British uniforms from that time period. The uniforms are probably heavily stylized, but they get an A for effort.
Also, very few two deckers were involved with the piracy at Nassau. The Scarborough and Phoenix were involved, but they were 5th and 6th rates respectively.
MeatHook That was rather interesting!
So revisiting this topic after two years of researching I still think they got the uniforms as accurate as can be expected. I did learn they weren't a maritime regiment of foot. Woodes Rogers brought with him an English Independent Company of about 100 soldiers, most of them recently discharged from the Chelsea Royal Hospital in London. I can't find my reference right now but I can dig for it if you'd like. As an Independent Company en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Company their equipment, weapons and accoutrements would be more than likely determined by the commander of the company. That being said, their uniforms and equipment depicted in the show were very common during this time.
As for their weapons I can't say. They probably would have been doglock muskets but again I can't be harsh on them since that's not something that would easily be created by a costume company.
As an inveterate fan of the series "Black Sails," and a historian, I know that there were plenty of inaccuracies in the show but, as someone below me said further along in the comments, "Treasure Island" - to which "Black Sails" was intended to function as a glossy, cinematic, prequel - was a half-caricatured, "derring-do" adventure story. Allowing for that, then, the program was great fun and the characterizations, dialogue, lavish sets, and plot twists drew me in even if huge swathes of the action and costuming and often-erroneous and anachronistic social, naval, and military protocol were a somewhat silly at times. I don't know, I am just as much of a "rivet-counter" as others yet it just didn't ruin it for me. The idea of using tension-building music when the British troops are in sight implicitly making the pirates the good guys wasn't jarring to me either - rightly or wrongly the pirates are the protagonists. A central idea of this whole series involves the tried and true conflict, run with in this series too, of whether there is, in fact, just as much honor among pirates as among those at the head of Empires in the New World and Caribbean of that era or, put another way, whether there's just as much will-too-power among the pirates' social 'betters' as among the pirates themselves. Try watching the program you may find it worthwhile if you can allow yourself to have fun watching it and overlook the inaccuracies.
I stumbled into this series and was an instant fan, well done!
I cannot emphasize enough how necessary and fantastic these videos are. Picking out film inaccuracies in the black-powder age is really entertaining, especially with your style.
Thank you! I know it can be a little silly at times, but I think it's a great medium to discuss wider historical topics.
Cant believe how fast your channel started growing! Congrats on 2k and on the video
Nor can I! But it's a very welcome change! Thank you!
Just discovered your channel and Ive never subbed so fast. Excellent content that is not often seen on this platform.
I'm glad I found this channel! Best late night in the past month!
As am I!
I love your channel keep up the great stuff
Actually the bit that's odd, when they show the fight from the pirates position it's on the reverse slope of the beach dunes, which means the ships can't fire on the pirates effectively.
But, there are a good few shots (filmwise, that is) that show the pirate fortifications being hit with cannon shot, and to rather great effect. But you're right on their positioning- another inconsistency it seems.
Which also means that the pirates can't fire on the boats or the mortar crews, as they can't see the British troops until the formed line advances up the beach quite a distance from the shoreline and pops up into view from the pirates POV.
How accurate were cannons back in that day anyway?
I always imagined it'd take thousands of cannon shots to effectively clear out a position like that; assuming the pirates didn't just pull back & return when you sent your landing force.
If a bunch of guys were lying prone on a beach, I'd imagine they'd be difficult to kill.
Even with modern artillery killing infantry isn't always that easy, especially in a fortified position.
cannon were on ship that dealt with waves which is why ship try to get as close as possible when they start smacking each other. In other hand they shooting at a land target that not moving. Once they got the range those ship themselves aren't moving much either once they anchor. Give them half a day and that fortification should be done
Great video! And can I just give a big thumbs up to the “other series (H)” you mentioned, a great series!
Brandon i subscribed yesterday when you were around 3k, now you are at 5k! You are rising fast sir, quite fast indeed. Wish you the best and i await the next topic, cheers.
Now at 40k. Damn.
Found your channel cause I was looking up stuff about Ac rogue stayed cause this is a surprisingly wholesome channel
god i love that intro, please never change it :D
Could you please review the Hornblower series? Or Master and Commander?
7:21
Total War be like: I'm sorry, what kind of tactic is this that you speak of?
The goal of the British commander (who is second in command) was to kill or hang the pirates hiding on a desolate island after they successfully captured the island Nassau. It was a nice point in mentioning about setting up cannons on the hills surrounding the natural harbor but captain Flint who is the "head" pirate want the British to land so he can weaken them and retake Nassau. So he setup a "defense" on the shores and then the pirates "breaks" and run into the jungle to ambush them later in hand to hand combat.
Yeah, British Army was very good on working with their navy. What else do you except from an island nation?
Why bother with the defense at all then? Just show yourself a bit early on to goad them onto land, then immediately break towards the jungle. No need to sit around taking cannon fire.
By any chance, did the Pirates successfully ambush the British troops and kill them? If so what happened after that. If not, oh well.
Knowing this type of movie, they will, and then presumably sneak aboard their ships and take them over or something.
Yes they did successfully ambush them. Later went back to retake Nassau.
Why didn’t the British just bombard them into submission? Wouldn’t have make good theatre. The pirates would have broken away sooner. Unopposed landing. Then a long tactical pursuit. By staying on the beach and breaking once the bayonet charge happened the British continued the pursuit and fell into the trap.
Quite enjoyable review and glad I wasn't the only one having a stroke seeing this scene.
Would you ever do some reviews of the tactics and accuracy of Zulu Dawn, Zulu and the Four Feathers?
Speaking of the forts, for anyone curious and in the States, Mackinaw City and Mackinaw Island both have reconstructions and excavations of forts belonging to the French, British, and later the US, including spots where the walls protrude with loopholes for muskets and larger ones pointing out to the Great Lakes of Michigan and Huron for cannons
I appreciate that in the beginning you admitted that your engaging in over analysis and nitpicking of some random historical flavored tv show. These two videos were the first of yours that I've seen and I liked them both. Going to check out some of your other content soon, you might've just gotten yourself another sub. Great work I've seen so far. :)
Humble and self deprecating too. :p
You should do some more videos discussing another battle in this show, because even when the show's writing it's pure gold, sometimes it lacks realism and smart strategy in battles. It would be fun to watch.
Oh, I have seen this scene on UA-cam before and cringed so hard... thank you for this video and this amazing channel! Instantly subbed.
Love how you showed an example from hornblower. A very very grest series. Shame they ended it when they did. The book hornblower and the hotspur is a really good book too.
Why couldn’t the pirates be in the forest instead of out in the open?
The Commissar Because then you couldn't see them in a wide CGI aerial shot.
They were.
The plan was to make a "tactical retreat" where the british would then follow them into the jungle and there they would be ambushed by hiding pirates
Actually, deploying their forces in the forest would likely not have been that great of an idea, considering the bombardment by naval artillery. Whilst it may had given them a camouflage advantage, they would be very prone to tree bursts, a phenomenon documented quite well in the battles of the bulge and Hürtgen forest, but not exclusive to modern, high angle HE shells. Basically every round that hits a tree, transforms that tree into a deadly hail of splinters acting much like air burst shells. Thats why when you expect heavy artillery bombardement you should never dig your trenches in forests, but rather in front of them.
A good point, although I think that if they were effectively deployed into the forest the navy never would have seen them to begin with.
Well, I just found this channel. Boi, here goes the rest of my vacation again...
Haha I got a naval action ad while watching this
Well that's a subscription well earned!
To start this off I just want to say that you are very well knowledge'd in15-17 century battle tactics and ways of life. many times in both parts one and two, you bring up a lot of really good points about why this is scene is Hollywood and how they differ from how people back then would have done things. As well as telling use what kind of war technologies would have been used and what were not used. I am a fan of your channel and find your videos really enjoyable. I only have one major issue with your video, which you stated very early in your first part video, and this is that you had not watched the show and there for did not fully understand the scene;
Although the pirates did have the home field advantage they purposely chose to fight on the beach. In the show, the captain knew his crew was greatly out numbered and could not fight the British head on. He also knew that the British Commander would Expect unconventional warfare from the pirates. In an effort to deceive the British, the pirates chose to split there forces. With most of the pirates hiding in the forest, and just enough of them on the beach to make the British think that they had chose to make there last stand on the beach. Basically, the beach force of pirates were bait for the British to let their guard down and chase them into the woods. Also there is a reason for the island having no settlement on it, but hat would take way to much time to type as to all the reasons why, but they explain it in the show.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that, I think half of your criticism is unfair. Mainly because this scene is met to add to the story and give emotion. I also think its unfair because this show had loads of Hollywood scenes in it that for the time would never happen, but are there to drive story/emotion. For example: At one point in the show the captain asked the man in the crows nest to kill another captain while they met. The captain then hands the man a musket and tell him to wait in the crows nest. This is just one of many Hollywood scenes that is used to drive story/emotion.....
With all that said keep up the great work and keep the videos coming!
I don't like that much your persona, but what you say it's interesting so I'll listen to you. Subbed.
This must become a longstanding series
"Hey guys, welcome to part 87 of my 'Let's Complain about this scene from Black Sails' series...."
Hi Brandon, love your channel and the Stif Upper Lip. Later in the series these scenes were used from one sees Redcoats/Royal Marines in very worn out red coats. They get into a rifle fight with the pirates. The senior soldiers in the first "line" are firing their muskets and then handing them back for younger soldiers to reload. Was there something like junior soldiers? I know that the recruitment age of the British navy was about 12 - 14 years but I though they were onboard Benjamins.
A fantastic example of a bastion fort is Castillo de San Marcos, aka Fort Marion, in St. Augustine, Florida. Standing at the point of one bastion, you get a very clear view of the opposing walls and bastions. It gives you a very good idea of the firing lines and that you aren't really safe anywhere within a couple thousand yards of the fort, assuming you were storming it in the 1700s or so.
No, it's VERY necessary to revisit this. I hate how many shows and movies have to have their "Saving Private Ryan" scene. It doesn't make sense and we all can see it for what it is.
I'll admit while watching this scene I was rolling my eyes at quite a few of it's elements, from the moment that Captain Flint started talking about preparing Defences on the beach and holding them before they got to the Jungle I was sighing because if the Pirates were only fortifying a single part of the Islands beaches, then why would the British only land on that specific point instead of just sailing around the island and landing somewhere else. But despite this scene the show itself is very entertaining and I say that as someone who doesn't typically like pirates in media or games, I don't generally see the appeal, but Black Sails paints this wonderful picture that doesn't idealise either side of the conflict, simply displaying them as basically desperate and savage people in a violent world that have developed in such a way in response to a deeply unfair and exploitative society.
Watching these videos makes me want to listen to -The SAM Song- the Connaught Rangers. Also, great videos!
I'm no major history buff but I also watched lindybeige do a similar video regarding ancients and them not attacking a defended position because of the loss of men. Wouldn't the same apply here? The navy have blocked the beach with ships and it's not unlikely there'd be another place on the island to land a force by boat and then they could take the pirates in flank or rear. How often would a beach landing like this be used? And is there any historical battles before Ww2 (D-Day comes to.mind most) prominently) where a force has had to attack a heavily defended beach?
I also noticed that the mortars are firing shrapnel rounds. There is a scene where one explodes in the air and an obvious shrapnel pattern is noticeable. Shrapnel was not available until the early 1784 and was not in common usage until the early 1800s..
Love your channel! and thanks for what you do!
So are you realy a Torry?
I consider myself a One Nation Tory.
Just stumbled upon your channel today. Enjoying your content so far.
Out of curiosity, do you think you could do a review for the Sharpe series, or the "much better" series that you showed?
If not, no worries. You seem to have plenty of topics to talk about, even without reviewing film and television.
Keep up the good work, and thanks.
I will be discussing a few aspects of the Sharpe series, and already have a video about the myth of 'spit loading'. And thank you!
Hello Brandon - thanks very much for another excellent video.
Another reenactor here, but early medieval, so no boomsticks for us.
However an atrocious number of reenactorisms by so many groups...
Could I ask what series that shot you used (the faded out one) was from please?
Thank you. :-)
Thank you! And the shot is from 'Hornblower,' an excellent series after the books of the same name.
Many thanks, I shall try and hunt down the TV series - the books are already in my guilt pile :-)
On the mortars the British used, could they also be used in a direct fire role against the pirate positions? Or would the elevation of the mortar simply not allow it to do so?
I think there was a sandbar between the beach and the fortifications that was deflecting the cannon shots.
Granted, that leaves even more questions but it does explain why the Navy hadn't pulverized that pile of sticks.
Other than that, If you were in charge of this scene how would you do it?
Bravo! Well done!
I feel that it should be pointed out that none of this is surprising in a series that has Jack Rackham wearing sunglasses.
So I'm assembling some British 28mm American War of Independence miniatures (warlord models), and I was wondering how I should arrange my "command" models. I have units of 30 figures (including the "command" section) representing a regiment, so I have a "colonel", a second officer who I am not sure of his intended rank, two ensigns (one regimental colour, one King's colour), one drummer boy, and one Sergeant. I am asking where should I put them in relation to one another in the line. The wargaming rules I use say that the models are Best-suited to all being in the ranks, so I can't really have drummers behind the line or officers ahead. The line is only two ranks deep instead of the usual 3, for convenience (lowering the number of models moved by a third speeds a game up by a quarter). Help me, please, internet!
3:50
the leader of the pirate forces was a former British sailor.
he knew the tactics of the marines, so he set them up.
it was a case of "he knows that we know that he knows", because the British also had a former smuggler in their lines, so it was a battle of wits seeing who would outsmart who.
they wanted not to push the marines back, and be done with it.... they wanted to bring the marines inland, and outright slaughter them.
this one scene is only half the narrative... the other half is the entire season staging _this_ up, and the follow up of _this_ scene, inland, where the pirates show their real hand.
"they will come" -> "let them come" ("let them come all the way, so we won't have to drag them here, where we want them")
also, this is only half the fleet, IIRC.
the other half is arriving, but it's being delayed by a pirate fleet around the island.
that's how the pirates win the engagement, by forcing this wave inland, dealing with it, then regrouping to fight the second wave, which is already highly decimated from fighting with the pirate fleet.
Now that I have seen this review, I'd like to watch this scene again. Does anyone here remember which season and episode of Black Sails this was in?
ah, Hornblower spoilers! Must avert eyes. Good video! Most enjoyable to watch.
It's a terrific show, so go finish it!
Aye aye, sir!
Damn now I need to rewatch hornblower
2:30 can anyone explain to me the skull in the clouds, it’s obviously meant to symbolise something but I don’t know what.
7:04 Love the Cannon example here =). I know this game all too well.
Hey, do you have any thoughts on the plausibility of arrow-style East Asian cannon being able to stand to European round shot? Would that kind of thing make a big impact, do you think?
I'm not sure what you're referring to. Could you send an image or link my way?
This kind of thing
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_cannon
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo-hiya
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huolongjing
(not technically cannon but sort of related)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_arrow
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwacha
Thanks for replying
Ah, excellent, thank you. I wasn't sure if by 'arrow style' you meant the sorts of things that would actually be firing arrows and the like. I'm by no means an expert in Asian artillery from the period, but from what I see here and what I have previously understood to be the case, a proper cannon is always going to be the better weapon. Cannon are faster to load, easier to fire, capable of far greater ranges in most cases, and are far more versatile in the shot they are able to fire (from roundshot to grape or canister, and later on, concussive and shrapnel).
Sorry, I wasn't really specific enough; I saw that such as noted here ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chongtong [important page, should've linked it earlier, sorry]) ranges such as for the Black Chongtong are listed as 1-2km, which is similar if not a bit more than the range of, say, carronades (Wikipedia gives just over a km) which of course utilise better powder and metallurgy and such. Do you know if these comparisons are particularly reflective? In naval battle, what mechanic causes most damage (puncturing, splinter shrapnel, damage of structural integrity) and could the potential for cannon like this to have greater puncturing force be utilised somehow-does the shape of the projectile even matter?
(I take your point on shot versatility though, thanks for that.)
Sorry to press you on something not your expertise but it's just a field I have a particular interest in.
In the post card at 2:34 there is a cloud in the left of the middle that looks like a skull is that intentional?
you good sir have just earned yourself a subscriber
It was a shallow water port .. the rats sank a few ships in the harbour earlier to block it.. the town is close by and is being taken by the spanish and all their cannons are in the fort overlooking Nassau. They didn't need to skip the balls because the rats were in a single line behind a barracaid. But a well done critique. Another little known fact about the British attack was that they actually doubble balled the first volly. Hence they would get in close (whites of their eyes ) before firing. They could lose a number of men in the advance but every musket would be firing out 2 balls from close range to more than make up for the losses and deliver a devistating volly and then a bayonet charge. Note the load was 2 balls but not a double charge of powder.
I love how you know it is pointless to make any further points since it is entertainment and it was already out there at how inaccurate it was already. But hey this is entertainment too. I love watching historical UA-camr correcting cinema on their mistakes. Its just fun for some reason. It doesn't detracts enjoyment from the film or show in its original viewing but its also fun to nitpick at it.
I just grew to learn that a lot of historical accuracy is left out for cinematography due to location available, budget and props limitations. But what I hate most is when some stuff that they can blatantly do better but don't.
Brandon F could you make in the future a video abbout "why and with what purposes was line tactics used" from what we see in movies they had the full potential of fighting like modern warfare ,with hiding behind cover ect. Not getting mowed down by artylery and enemy volleys.
I know its a simple question but i think not many people know tge answer to it.
This scene looks like it was just made for the coolness factor it honestly looks like a line battle version of d-day. Even the parts where the British are jumping of the boats while being shot at. It looks a lot like the d-day scene from saving private Ryan.
Brandon, do know anything about the Battle of Badon Hill?
Logical strategy would have been for the pirates to establish their emplacements in the treeline, and disguise them as well as possible. Place a token force in view to draw in the English, if that was really needed, and once bombardment started fall back away from the emplacements. The Marines would land unopposed, but fall under heavy fire from the treeline from swivel guns and muskets. The trees would afford decent cover from most fire and limited cover from cannon shots skipping through. Then, once you have had enough you can fall back, and "melt" into the trees to set up cantonments and harass the British formations.
I love that intro.
Anyone know the miniature war game shown in the diagram?
Please could you do a video on the Royal Marines?
7:00 warhammer fantasy battles 6th edition artillery example graphic, I've still got my books stashed somewhere in my room, even a campaign supplement for using ships and islands.
Even with the historical inaccuracies it looks pretty cool I want to see it
Brandon what is the tv show that was better, but faded for copyright... ? I want to watch that please...
What's the name of the show in the faded-out window?
I like that the Sargent is carrying a Spadroon. If you want a bad amphibious landing look at Robin Hood with flat bottom landing craft with drop gates in the bows.
11:01 What happens when that cannon kicks back? It looks painful, or possibly even fatal.
What is this battle called?
What was the show you referenced in the middle of the video that had the better landing scene?
"Horatio Hornblower"
Brandon F. Awesome. Thanks!
What show did he have faded in the video?
Hi Brandon, what is the other TV series featured in this video?
It’s Hornblower, a really great and I’d say pretty authentic series
cracked down on a series, without saying it and knowing the storie.. no you the hero we dont need mate.
three things:1 Swivel Artillery is not a standard peace of equipment especially with such a small farce. 2 For a field gun like the British field cannon the 3pound Grass hoper it was considered a relatively light cannon however this is relative if you consider 500lbs as a light cannon. Yet this is a "field cannon" meaning it is meant for use on the battlefield something pirates would not have. they would be using naval artillery that that although would most certainly have the range. Setting up a hasty defense using something so massive would be absolutely asinine especially if you are trying to nearly hinder an enemy and it is not you island. 3 It is not a pirate fortress. It is just an island that has pirates on it meaning their is no need for a large infrastructure of defense. Resupply, bury, and leave, or move far enough inland that the guns in the ship are useless and prosed to conduct gorilla tactics till every last red coat is dead. Just saying man.
They should have laid back in the tree line.
It occurred to me when you mentioned the mortars that, deliberate or not, this scene is a rather excellent refutation of anyone who claims that soldiers of the era should have implemented modern tactics, or that they(a civilian with no experience or even significant historical knowledge but I digress) could have done better. The entire scene is effectively the creators of the show trying to have their cake and eat it, too--Saving Private Ryan(including the tactics and similar required aesthetics), with (semi)period weapons and such, like the mortars and musketry. And it fails miserably--the muskets are too inaccurate, the mortars are ripped apart, bayonets and hangers aren't even an afterthought, etc. In fact, it strikes me as what might happen if a modern, casual amateur 'historian'(someone whose entire exposure to history is through the collective consciousness, hearsay, myths, and the odd bit of hollywood or reenactment--especially poor historical films like 'The Patriot' or 'Braveheart'(oh, Men Gibson--you really hate the English and Historical authenticism as a whole, don't you?), was sent back in time and put in command of a historical fighting force. Perhaps that's the best possible in-world explanation for this shoddy demonstration, eh?
EDIT; Small follow-up question--what's the show you mentioned does amphibious landings better? I saw British Royal Marines circa the Napoleonic Wars, and knowing it did it better piqued my interest. Would like to check it out.
Hah, it may well be! And, the Napoleonic show is the film series 'Hornblower,' after the books of the same name. Both are absolutely brilliant and I highly recommend them.
Brandon F. what's your opinion of Master and Commander: the far side of the world? I love it, and I heard it is one of the more historically accurate movies out there.
Talk normal
The learned Soldier, just wanted to say great comment, and that I agree, but mostly thanks for asking the question I was going to ask and getting the answer for me!
Maybe some parts of modern doctrine could be useful, but for the most part you are right.
Tactics, strategies and doctrines are dictated by the technological and production level of the user. Modern tactics are based around combined arms, speed and avoiding trench warfare. The first part was non-existent at the time since there was only infantry and cavalry, while the rest was already practised at the time.
Which Musket was actually the best before the newer model with the different Barrel and Bullet was invented ?
What TV show was the short video from ? (The one You called the superior Show :D )
Hornblower.
Thank you very much
I'm kind of surprise they didn't have a bayonet charge-get some cool hand to hand combat in, swash some buckles, clash some swords. I can't help but think of how the Undead Pirates vs the Royal Navy in Pirates of the Carribean was actually better about it: the ships are right there to support the landing, and when the pirates get control of the royal ship, they turn the cannons on the launches, and then the rest of the fight is the marines reboarding and we get mostly pistols and hangars.