I think the better question would be : Can someone that know about the Eight Princes conflict bear to play as one of the colossal idiots of their time without losing their mind. (I mean you survived Shi Xie Records with Radious...)
@@Killerbee4712 For all his flaws, Yuan Shu wasn't doing rituals every other day. Zhang Jiao wasn't doing rituals every other day when the rebellion went off early.
I love Records Mode too. Not one general strike through my entire spear infantry like a rocket. Anyway love your channel. From you I learn and now my army is all elite. I love Protectors of Heaven, Trebuchets and Onyx Dragons. They are so strong
It's funny, I got the 'win a campaign without losing a battle' entirely by accident on my very first attempt at legendary 8 Princes, playing as Sima Ai. I fought a total of two battles in the entire run and simply annexed territory through diplomacy and vassalization. I realized that 3K's diplomacy was truly special in this 'Total War' game when I could win a game through it.
Sima Yong´s positon is accurate, he was active in the west because we was made commander of Chang´an in 299 so thats where most of the military forces loyal to him were concentrated but you are at 291 and in Hejian is the principality that was created for him in 277.
As a longtime records mode player, welcome! Generals can still be intimidating units when they have high stats, not the case here since he's long dead but Lu Bu even in records can do a lot of heavy lifting for example. The generals being squads also works to the player's advantage in siege defenses, since without the single unit rampaging around it's easier to hold the line and let towers do the work Nice to see another 8 princes run though, your let's talk lore on the time period is probably one of my favorites
Shaaaaaaaaa! I'm excited for this series now since barely few people have played 8P DLC (I'm a big fan of Sima Ying abbegerg) and was waiting for you to play it, which is happening now :D Thank you!!!
The Xiongnu cav can actually be quite nice. They have fear effect so they can help with morale breaking. Also raider trait so they can burn things. Early game If they’re in Lun’s own regiment you can draw the ai to one side of a settlement and them use to stealth burn the town/towers if you don’t have flaming arrows or shot.
5:32 Chu-Han/The Fall of Qin be an alternative option and be another testing ground for MoH afterwards would be the best timeline ever lived, that one can dream...
The issue with eight princes is most people who were fans of the three kingdoms period and new to total war bought the game because of the three kingdoms setting. They also felt the base game was incomplete with a lack of character as we had fewer artworks at the time and not flushed out timelines. Then they make the jump to eight princes which is an entirely different setting. Even though the Chu Han time line is more popular it still doesn’t add more to the base game.
What he said. I was so pissed they did 8 princes since there were so few characters in the setting. I'd like to see at the least 150 additional characters in the 3 Kingdoms setting before they even think about anything in another time period at all. I don't think they even had yellow turbans(Zhang Brother's) nor Nanman when this dlc came out. The game is called 3 Kingdoms, not smaller version of China 1000 year sim(random amount of time, but I hate you CA for making me wait 15 years for this game and messing it up so much)
Ps I'd play the dlc you're suggesting, but I want a bigger map and more playable factions, nomadic factions/incursions, diplo with them, and of course more unique characters an bug fixes....I can go on forever, CA LOVE THIS GAME AND ITS PERIOD LIKE WE DO NOT LIKE YOUR SHAREHOLDERS DO
I have not played in a long time but when I did, I used a mod to play as Cao Huan, Prince of Chenliu which also allowed you to play as the Wei Empire once you conquered a certain number of commanderies. I think the modding community could have seized the chance to place Liu Qiu (a descendant of Liu Xie), the Duke of Shanyang on the map as well. Not to mention, of course, the inclusion of the Southern Xiongnu, the Jie (as initial Xiongnu vassals), and the Xianbei as separate factions - given the pivotal role they played in the destruction of Western Jin (especially the Xiongnu and the Jie).
Glad to see I'm not the only person who'll fight for Wei. Wei restoration games are so much fun. My favorite ever run, N/N (sorry I dont like cheating AI), I made it a mission to execute every single Sima I saw and vassalize (if they accepted it) anyone else. I imagine Cao Mengde might not approve of such outright massacring (game respects game, he taught Zhongda, Zhongda gamed his descendants). That said, its Cao Mengde. Why wouldnt he get his revenge from beyond the grave?
ah the Yuan Shu of the Sima Clan, since his thing focuses on spies i did all the spy tree things though no clue if that was smart so it took a long time to win with Sima Yong on my case sometimes i never know "Which" coalition of princes to join
glad you're trying out records mode! it's way easier to cheese most battles with artillery and archer spam now since enemies can't just break your lines with single entities👌🏻
yep thats what a lot of people don't get about romance, yes your generals are stronger but the AI generals are equally annoying if you can't duel them to take them out of the fight
This whole time period strikes me as weird too bc if you knew your heir wasn't all there, then why give him a cunning wife and she wasn't even related to the grandson.
My fav faction in 8p is Sima Ying, because it's super easy to get both of the gold strategist armor that give retinue stealth, and you can use them with Qiang units.
I would love to see more games about either this period or/and the subsequent period of 16 states and northern and southern dynasties. I feel these periods are very overlooked. Total War just was not the right format to convey a narrative for this era. It wasn't really a battle royale between all the princes at once. Two princes were eliminated by intrigue of Jia Nanfeng, and the rest were eliminated linearly one after the other, essentially being taken out as factions as each one came to power for the most part. The time scale for Total War is also totally off for depicting this period, as events happened very quickly, with some princes rising and falling in less than a year (such as Ai). Lastly, events at the periphery, such as the Li family taking over Sichuan, the rise of Liu Yuan, the Murong clan, and Shi Le, various rebellions in the realm such as Zhang Chang's, etc. were as interesting as the princely struggle itself, and had long term ramifications, which isn't really conveyed in a 8 faction battle royale. I'm glad they made this DLC anyways as at least it was an innovative and interesting idea. I just hope that in the future more is eventually done with it. I don't think the mistake was making this DLC in the first place, but moreso the timing and marketing and attaching it to Total War Three Kingdoms instead of making some kind of spinoff.
I don't know if he's in the Eight Princes DLC, but if he is, keep your eye out for Chen An. He was a pretty badass fighter and based on his biography in the Jinshu, seems to have evoked an image that Luo Guanzhong might have used for Guan Yu's and Zhang Fei's weapons in the novel (Chen An used a 18 zhang serpentine spear, and a da dao, though unfortunately by Luo Guanzhong's time this got interpreted to mean a glaive rather than a two handed dao like it would have been during the Western Jin). He's probably not in it though, considering he doesn't serve the Simas until 311 or so.
Hey serious, i wanna ask. This Zhào Wángyé, is he Sima Yi Dí Zǐ or Shù Zǐ?? The one that associates with the son from concubine or main wife. Also, if you don't mind to answer. I'd like to know about Sima Liang and all of his brother...
Hey Serious Trivia, Is there any records on how Lun's mother Lady Bai died? In The Advisor Alliance, She was burn alive when her carriage was set on fire by Remnant Soldiers loyal to Wang Ling.
I enjoyed this dlc but I do wonder how the dlc roadmap would have changed if this had not been released. I feel like it damaged the financial momentum of the game, and it didn’t fully recover.
Only reason why Sima Lun's dynasty failed was because he didn't have the Jade Seal. Fite me! On that subject tho, was that seal still around during the Jin Dynasty?
God, iirc the last time you played Records it was what? The Shi Xie TUP campaign? And last 8 Princes was years ago... Man I have not been so dedicated to any other channel.
amazing, in my humble opinion the only way to play.. generals in romance are just too op taking out armies solo. your general can literally take one stray arrow on records as a healthy unit and die if ur unlucky lol
Conversely the AI generals are so much weaker now that it makes battles easier to win in my opinion if the armies are close to fair. Like you can’t win those three generals vs an army battles but you can win the normal battles much easier
@@SeriousTrivia I will watch that next, idk if this sounds cool to you or not, but my own unique play style is play as a Nanman spam elephants and play like a tower defense game against the ai purposely not advancing and letting them continuously engage me in epic showdowns/sieges. Meanwhile you start collecting a bunch of Han generals with defender of earth and siege weapon retinues.
The Liu clan got to live on much like their arrangement in Wei. As the Jin split and some smaller Kingdoms formed, there were some who used one branch of Liu Bei's line to form the Cheng Han Kingdom in Shu for a period before getting wiped but I would assume most of the other branches were living fine in other places. Pretty similar story with Wu. Sun Hao and his 21 sons all got titles under Jin. A few of the sons were used by later groups to start minor kingdoms that would eventually be destroyed by Eastern Jin later. But most got to live their lives as long as they remained content. The Cao clan abdicated like Liu Xie so Cao Huan had the title of Prince of Chenliu for the rest of his life. All way till the Southern Dynasty after the Jin, the Chenliu Princedom was still around and still belonged to the Cao clan so they were fine too.
@SeriousTrivia Ironically, I think it was the Southern Qi that abolished the princedom of Chenliu when the Liu Song whose emperors descended from one of Liu Bang's brothers actually kept the title. Come to think of it, it was the Lius who usurped the Simas' throne. History can be capricious at times.
Honestly his subterfuge ability is pretty busted in diplomacy. You can use it to basically extort free money from all the surrounding factions. If I remember right it does give them the "bad trade" debuff so they like you less.
It feels busted to a point where they clearly didn't QA it long enough. I think they believed his starting position would just be too hard for most players and computer versions of him all suck because they can't use the mechanic right.
Not ST and purely speculative but basically by having more free content for 190 release alongside 8P. If Huang Gai, Guo Jia, Pang Tong and Jia Xu had all released with 8P I think the blowback would have been slightly mitigated to start with. (Because like that you show that 3K is still your core even if you release stuff immediately related to it) People don't play a lot of MP/Custom battles but it's also good to remember that with CA wacky model for 3K (because it's truly inconsistent), owning the 8P is the only way to actually have Cataphracts in there (tho they are free on the campaign map so 99% of the people don't realize that)
If you can still exploit diplomacy and loop with an unbreakable general, then is there really that much of a difference in difficulty? It's not like the AI's smarter than it is in romance 😂 The ranged units will shoot your generals though
I mean he would never make himself the Emperor so the Jin is stuck with Sima Zhong and probably doomed no matter what. Just blame Sima Yan for picking his mentally retarded son as Emperor
I think the better question would be : Can someone that know about the Eight Princes conflict bear to play as one of the colossal idiots of their time without losing their mind.
(I mean you survived Shi Xie Records with Radious...)
Sima Lun is truly just Yuan Shu lite
@@Killerbee4712 For all his flaws, Yuan Shu wasn't doing rituals every other day. Zhang Jiao wasn't doing rituals every other day when the rebellion went off early.
@@Bloodlyshiva True, but he DID declare himself emperor during the most heated area of Lu Bu cao cao liu bei Sun Ce Liu Biao lmfao
8 Princes, and Records mode. Now this'll be spicy 🌶
I love Records Mode too. Not one general strike through my entire spear infantry like a rocket.
Anyway love your channel. From you I learn and now my army is all elite. I love Protectors of Heaven, Trebuchets and Onyx Dragons. They are so strong
It's funny, I got the 'win a campaign without losing a battle' entirely by accident on my very first attempt at legendary 8 Princes, playing as Sima Ai.
I fought a total of two battles in the entire run and simply annexed territory through diplomacy and vassalization. I realized that 3K's diplomacy was truly special in this 'Total War' game when I could win a game through it.
Sima Yong´s positon is accurate, he was active in the west because we was made commander of Chang´an in 299 so thats where most of the military forces loyal to him were concentrated but you are at 291 and in Hejian is the principality that was created for him in 277.
Love your vids man by far my fav total war channel, keep up the amazing work!
As a longtime records mode player, welcome! Generals can still be intimidating units when they have high stats, not the case here since he's long dead but Lu Bu even in records can do a lot of heavy lifting for example. The generals being squads also works to the player's advantage in siege defenses, since without the single unit rampaging around it's easier to hold the line and let towers do the work
Nice to see another 8 princes run though, your let's talk lore on the time period is probably one of my favorites
Shaaaaaaaaa!
I'm excited for this series now since barely few people have played 8P DLC (I'm a big fan of Sima Ying abbegerg) and was waiting for you to play it, which is happening now :D
Thank you!!!
Making your son stay loyal by forcing him to read the classic of filial piety is A+
The Xiongnu cav can actually be quite nice. They have fear effect so they can help with morale breaking. Also raider trait so they can burn things. Early game If they’re in Lun’s own regiment you can draw the ai to one side of a settlement and them use to stealth burn the town/towers if you don’t have flaming arrows or shot.
nice! I've always wanted to see u play records mode! ❤
you dont know how long i hoped for the day you did a sima lun playthrough holy crap.
Sima Lun, the character who has a totally reasonable background stat boost
5:32 Chu-Han/The Fall of Qin be an alternative option and be another testing ground for MoH afterwards would be the best timeline ever lived, that one can dream...
I think the game would have died right there with a low dlc sale
@@SeriousTrivia pls elaborate, maybe the leaders options were even less or something
The issue with eight princes is most people who were fans of the three kingdoms period and new to total war bought the game because of the three kingdoms setting. They also felt the base game was incomplete with a lack of character as we had fewer artworks at the time and not flushed out timelines. Then they make the jump to eight princes which is an entirely different setting. Even though the Chu Han time line is more popular it still doesn’t add more to the base game.
What he said. I was so pissed they did 8 princes since there were so few characters in the setting. I'd like to see at the least 150 additional characters in the 3 Kingdoms setting before they even think about anything in another time period at all. I don't think they even had yellow turbans(Zhang Brother's) nor Nanman when this dlc came out. The game is called 3 Kingdoms, not smaller version of China 1000 year sim(random amount of time, but I hate you CA for making me wait 15 years for this game and messing it up so much)
Ps I'd play the dlc you're suggesting, but I want a bigger map and more playable factions, nomadic factions/incursions, diplo with them, and of course more unique characters an bug fixes....I can go on forever, CA LOVE THIS GAME AND ITS PERIOD LIKE WE DO NOT LIKE YOUR SHAREHOLDERS DO
We gotta find, spare, and hire Old Wen Yang here!
I have not played in a long time but when I did, I used a mod to play as Cao Huan, Prince of Chenliu which also allowed you to play as the Wei Empire once you conquered a certain number of commanderies. I think the modding community could have seized the chance to place Liu Qiu (a descendant of Liu Xie), the Duke of Shanyang on the map as well. Not to mention, of course, the inclusion of the Southern Xiongnu, the Jie (as initial Xiongnu vassals), and the Xianbei as separate factions - given the pivotal role they played in the destruction of Western Jin (especially the Xiongnu and the Jie).
Glad to see I'm not the only person who'll fight for Wei.
Wei restoration games are so much fun.
My favorite ever run, N/N (sorry I dont like cheating AI), I made it a mission to execute every single Sima I saw and vassalize (if they accepted it) anyone else.
I imagine Cao Mengde might not approve of such outright massacring (game respects game, he taught Zhongda, Zhongda gamed his descendants). That said, its Cao Mengde.
Why wouldnt he get his revenge from beyond the grave?
ah the Yuan Shu of the Sima Clan, since his thing focuses on spies i did all the spy tree things though no clue if that was smart so it took a long time to win with Sima Yong on my case sometimes i never know "Which" coalition of princes to join
Didn't know we got another campaign in the works - sweet for the New Year!
Sima Lun, Master of Deception. He was so deceptive, he even deceived himself into thinking he was winning.
I've been waiting for another playthrough of this DLC!
Yes! Records! My fav mode
Love watching these videos, when i get a pc this is the first game I'm playing
Now this title gets my attention!
glad you're trying out records mode! it's way easier to cheese most battles with artillery and archer spam now since enemies can't just break your lines with single entities👌🏻
yep thats what a lot of people don't get about romance, yes your generals are stronger but the AI generals are equally annoying if you can't duel them to take them out of the fight
This whole time period strikes me as weird too bc if you knew your heir wasn't all there, then why give him a cunning wife and she wasn't even related to the grandson.
I still can’t believe battle of chibi wasn’t official and this came out instead, I had fun with this, just wasn’t what I expected
My fav faction in 8p is Sima Ying, because it's super easy to get both of the gold strategist armor that give retinue stealth, and you can use them with Qiang units.
I cant believe sima lun was the one who started this war
That is what we are waiting for . Pure Strategy!!!!
Its been a while i have seen eight princes gameplay, this is gonna be juicy one!
The 8P DLC Trailer almost has 1M views now
Bravo. 8P is also good that there are no Nanman elephants that will remove the retinue.
It's been 3000 hours.. But we have finally arrived
I'd love to see you do this playthrough without Juggernauts, to make it more challenging in battles
I would love to see more games about either this period or/and the subsequent period of 16 states and northern and southern dynasties. I feel these periods are very overlooked. Total War just was not the right format to convey a narrative for this era. It wasn't really a battle royale between all the princes at once. Two princes were eliminated by intrigue of Jia Nanfeng, and the rest were eliminated linearly one after the other, essentially being taken out as factions as each one came to power for the most part. The time scale for Total War is also totally off for depicting this period, as events happened very quickly, with some princes rising and falling in less than a year (such as Ai). Lastly, events at the periphery, such as the Li family taking over Sichuan, the rise of Liu Yuan, the Murong clan, and Shi Le, various rebellions in the realm such as Zhang Chang's, etc. were as interesting as the princely struggle itself, and had long term ramifications, which isn't really conveyed in a 8 faction battle royale. I'm glad they made this DLC anyways as at least it was an innovative and interesting idea. I just hope that in the future more is eventually done with it. I don't think the mistake was making this DLC in the first place, but moreso the timing and marketing and attaching it to Total War Three Kingdoms instead of making some kind of spinoff.
Sima Lun is probably my favorite 8P campaign followed by Yue n Ai
Sima Ai, the best Sima🥲
I think for some fun and flavor, you should also pick up every superstitious general you see. Otherwise, excited for a new campaign.
Great! 🎉
You need to play 8 Princes as Cao Huan and restore the Wei.
I don't know if he's in the Eight Princes DLC, but if he is, keep your eye out for Chen An. He was a pretty badass fighter and based on his biography in the Jinshu, seems to have evoked an image that Luo Guanzhong might have used for Guan Yu's and Zhang Fei's weapons in the novel (Chen An used a 18 zhang serpentine spear, and a da dao, though unfortunately by Luo Guanzhong's time this got interpreted to mean a glaive rather than a two handed dao like it would have been during the Western Jin).
He's probably not in it though, considering he doesn't serve the Simas until 311 or so.
I don't think anyone has ever played Eight Princes recds mode.
Was that the same Wei Guan that killed Deng Ai and Zhong Hui?
yes the one and only!
Hey serious, i wanna ask. This Zhào Wángyé, is he Sima Yi Dí Zǐ or Shù Zǐ?? The one that associates with the son from concubine or main wife. Also, if you don't mind to answer. I'd like to know about Sima Liang and all of his brother...
Only Shi and Zhao are Di Zi born from the main wife Zhang Chunhua. Everyone else is Shu Zi and born from concubines
You are the best big bro 😊😊😊
Hey Serious Trivia, Is there any records on how Lun's mother Lady Bai died? In The Advisor Alliance, She was burn alive when her carriage was set on fire by Remnant Soldiers loyal to Wang Ling.
None of her scenes in advisor alliance is historical. She was just a favored concubine and lived like a housewife until death by natural causes
I see.
I enjoyed this dlc but I do wonder how the dlc roadmap would have changed if this had not been released. I feel like it damaged the financial momentum of the game, and it didn’t fully recover.
Only reason why Sima Lun's dynasty failed was because he didn't have the Jade Seal. Fite me!
On that subject tho, was that seal still around during the Jin Dynasty?
yes the seal was still around into the Jin Dynasty
"Final Form", still makes me sad.
God, iirc the last time you played Records it was what? The Shi Xie TUP campaign? And last 8 Princes was years ago... Man I have not been so dedicated to any other channel.
amazing, in my humble opinion the only way to play.. generals in romance are just too op taking out armies solo. your general can literally take one stray arrow on records as a healthy unit and die if ur unlucky lol
Conversely the AI generals are so much weaker now that it makes battles easier to win in my opinion if the armies are close to fair. Like you can’t win those three generals vs an army battles but you can win the normal battles much easier
Sorry to ask but is your first records mode video?
I did dabble in a records mode Shi Xie campaign with the radious mod but it was cut short because I just didn’t like the radious mod
@@SeriousTrivia I will watch that next, idk if this sounds cool to you or not, but my own unique play style is play as a Nanman spam elephants and play like a tower defense game against the ai purposely not advancing and letting them continuously engage me in epic showdowns/sieges. Meanwhile you start collecting a bunch of Han generals with defender of earth and siege weapon retinues.
sounds like a fun but a bit tedious campaign lol
Come on people only 6 more likes on last Liu Biao lore video, and we'll get a new lore series..✊
😮😮 amazing
Jokes on you guys.... records mode is EASIER for ST!!
How was the life and fate of the Liu, Cao, Sun clans and their respective rulers and successors under Jin dynasty and later on ?
The Liu clan got to live on much like their arrangement in Wei. As the Jin split and some smaller Kingdoms formed, there were some who used one branch of Liu Bei's line to form the Cheng Han Kingdom in Shu for a period before getting wiped but I would assume most of the other branches were living fine in other places.
Pretty similar story with Wu. Sun Hao and his 21 sons all got titles under Jin. A few of the sons were used by later groups to start minor kingdoms that would eventually be destroyed by Eastern Jin later. But most got to live their lives as long as they remained content.
The Cao clan abdicated like Liu Xie so Cao Huan had the title of Prince of Chenliu for the rest of his life. All way till the Southern Dynasty after the Jin, the Chenliu Princedom was still around and still belonged to the Cao clan so they were fine too.
@SeriousTrivia Ironically, I think it was the Southern Qi that abolished the princedom of Chenliu when the Liu Song whose emperors descended from one of Liu Bang's brothers actually kept the title. Come to think of it, it was the Lius who usurped the Simas' throne. History can be capricious at times.
Because this is records mod I believe you should also change your army comparison as well
For make gameplay little bit more interesting
Sima Lun is 51 in this time period if my memory serves his dob is 240?, but the game has him a 44
He has no recorded birth year. We only know he is born after 232 as one of his older brother was born that year. 240 is just a wiki mistake
Hejian is to the west of Bohai , no?
Honestly his subterfuge ability is pretty busted in diplomacy. You can use it to basically extort free money from all the surrounding factions. If I remember right it does give them the "bad trade" debuff so they like you less.
completely busted
It feels busted to a point where they clearly didn't QA it long enough. I think they believed his starting position would just be too hard for most players and computer versions of him all suck because they can't use the mechanic right.
do you plan to make more eight princes let's playeds
Not saying no but not anytime soon after this one
How do think they could have made this dlc better so that peaople would have accepted it more
How nice a game is and what setting it is set in is completely two different things
Not ST and purely speculative but basically by having more free content for 190 release alongside 8P. If Huang Gai, Guo Jia, Pang Tong and Jia Xu had all released with 8P I think the blowback would have been slightly mitigated to start with. (Because like that you show that 3K is still your core even if you release stuff immediately related to it)
People don't play a lot of MP/Custom battles but it's also good to remember that with CA wacky model for 3K (because it's truly inconsistent), owning the 8P is the only way to actually have Cataphracts in there (tho they are free on the campaign map so 99% of the people don't realize that)
😮
If you can still exploit diplomacy and loop with an unbreakable general, then is there really that much of a difference in difficulty? It's not like the AI's smarter than it is in romance 😂 The ranged units will shoot your generals though
I agree unbreakable is great
Wasn’t Sun Xiu also his nan chong?
yep!
A classic
can't abuse heroes? can't help about it... lets abuse trebuchets and onyx dragons then.
What if Sima Ai became the ultimate successor of the Civil War?
I mean he would never make himself the Emperor so the Jin is stuck with Sima Zhong and probably doomed no matter what. Just blame Sima Yan for picking his mentally retarded son as Emperor
😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮
Idk about the game being in the final form it’s more like it got dropped
well I didn't say the final form is perfect . . . it is just in its final form as in it wouldn't get anymore updates
@@SeriousTrivia ya i wished we got to the actual forming for the 3 kingdom and we can get sima zhao and sima shi
貂不足 狗尾代