Let Your Creality K1 MAX and K1 Printers Soak for the Best First Layers
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- Опубліковано 23 лют 2024
- This is really easy to do, and now you don't need to think to get better results.
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You're not along if you're having trouble getting a good first layer on your K1 or K1 Max printer. With the Max, we found out that with such a fast heating cycle, and the larger and thin bed we're getting a lot of warpage, but we also found that the warpage didn't stop right away, the bed changed shape and then began to change back. Most of the settling back happened within 10 minutes but it continued for as long as 20 minutes.
In this video I wanted to show you a way to pre-heat automatically so that you don't need to think about it.
**Special note: The Max takes only 5 minutes to reach 100C, it's far faster than most other printers, adding a bit of time back to this heating cycle is a good idea and will give you the best results with the thickness of aluminum plate we're dealing with.
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Here is the info you need to copy and paste (Starting with M190 of course) These are all for 9 minutes, I will work towards a follow up video to set a variable time... I don't know how to do this yet.
***WE HAVE AN UPDATE (Originals are first, we also have auto-time adjust below)
Thanks to @stew675 for this very elegant solution
ORCA(Original)🐋
M190 S[bed_temperature_initial_layer_single]
G4 P540000
ORCA(Auto-time)🐋
M190 S[bed_temperature_initial_layer_single]
G4 P{max(0, first_layer_bed_temperature[0] -10) * 6000}
CREALITY PRINT(Original)🟦
M190 S[material_bed_temperature_layer_0]
G4 P540000
CREALITY PRINT(Auto-time)🟦
M190 S[material_bed_temperature_layer_0]
G4 P{max(0, first_layer_bed_temperature[0] -10) * 6000}
PRUSA SLICER(Original)🟠
M190 S[first_layer_bed_temperature]
G4 P540000
PRUSA SLICER(Auto-time)🟠
M190 S[first_layer_bed_temperature]
G4 P{max(0, first_layer_bed_temperature[0] -10) * 6000}
#creality
#crealityk1
#3dprinting - Навчання та стиль
This worked for me, but since I'm prone to sending a print and immediately realizing I want to make one more change, I replaced the single 10 minute wait with a loop that waits 30 seconds 20 times, since you have to wait for the current command to finish before you can pause/cancel/etc. This way I can make those last minute revisions faster, instead of waiting the full 10 minutes.
For any other scatterbrained people like me, I replaced the G4 line with (adjust the number after L in the first line to change the number of loops, e.g. L10 would be 10 loops, and the time per wait as shown in the video):
M808 L20
G4 P30000
M808
thanks for sharing
Definitely keep us updated on the thicker bed collaboration. A 10 minute soak plus KAMP probing on a 5 hr print isn't too bad. A 10 minute soak plus KAMP probing on a 5 minute print takes a toll on my patience. IMO, 3mm beds should be limited to 220x220 machines or bed slingers where weight is an issue. Also, thanks for showing the gcode across multiple slicers. That's something I wish more content creators added to their videos.
I will! I'll have another video on it and it should be the whole kit so we don't need to try to remove the existing parts and ATTEMPT to reuse them (apparently peanut butter is a legit solution... somehow) to get the adhesive off.
I think this printer with a 6mm bed thickness would be awesome and I hope Creality makes the change for future printers in the factory. Even if they need to raise the price slightly it's worth it and will help if they want to increase the accuracy of their filament calibration.
I have finally achieved an almost perfect first layer for PETG:
With PLA, the first layer usually comes out quite well since the bed calibration temperature usually coincides or is very close to the printing temperature, so it is enough to print the PETG at 50º Bed. I have used the gcode that you indicate as original instead of Auto-Time because this second the machine blocked me with an error 2171 (I do not have it rooted), 5 minutes heating the bed (300000) and I use an extra strong hairspray for the textured PEI and I only had to put a piece of baking paper held with Kapton tape under the pei in one corner. It is a solution that works for me because for now I only print in PLA or PETG. I hope it helps someone
An excellent idea - I am testing this now on both K1 printers here. thanks.
Dude that thumbnail is legendary
Thanks!! I'm starting to get there with my TNs, sometimes they come to me quickly and sometimes I can spend sooooo much time on them. What seems to work well is to pre-plan before I get too far into the videos. That way I can take the right photos while I'm recording, trying to do it at the end doesn't work out as well.
Funny story. I had to Redo this a few times because the tub that I needed to fit the K1 Max into had to be huge, so I settled on the smaller K1 and called it a day.
Just bought a Max. Super good I subscribed and this came up for me. Thank you!!
You're welcome! That printer is a nice big one and should open up some good options for you. The big bed just needed a bit of extra attention since it will want to warp more than the smaller K1.
for the dwell P time you can simply use [bed_temp...] * 5400. so for 100 degrees you'll wait 9 minutes. 5 minutes soak for 60. 2 mins for 40.
I have implemented this strategy and it along with adding bed adjustability the root have mad my K1 Max a much better printer. Thanks a ton for these how-tos.
For sure, I think we're at the point where we can get a good first layer each time and we don't need to even think about it. I still want that thicker bed, but this is an okay solution for the time being. I added an updated bit of coding in the description, it has a dwell time that's based on the bed temp if you want to try that as well, or maybe you have already.
@@NeedItMakeIt I haven't done the updated one yet. What is the behavior of that one? Does it hit the target temp, then start the timer?
@@iwannaratrod It's a lot nicer it will change the amount of soaking time based on the material you're printing with. 60 = 5 minutes, 80= 7 minutes, 100 = 9 minutes extra. You can play with the formula as-needed, but it's simple and effective, I've been using it on all of my prints since yesterday, near perfection!
Of course I'm signing up for the thick bed from Spain :)
Thank you. Excellent information.
Great, I'm glad you liked it!
🙏 ive been preaching this for YEARS. First noticed this back about 12 years ago when i first started playing custom g-code
I first thought it would be nice to heat both the nozzle and bed at the same time to print small things faster, quickly noticed the furst layer was off. Took me a few weeks to put two and two together. After that i added just 1 minute, as more didnt make a difference on the low thermal mass of a Replictor Dual bed with just Kapton tape and no glass or magnetic bed.
When i finally got a larger printer with a 200x200mm build area and a magnetic spring steel bed i found the same issue again. But this time i also found on larger ABS prints you really needed to heat the chamber, so moved it upto 5 min, then 10.
I also went one step further and instead of insulation the bed directly, i lined the eges with 1/2" wool and created a air camber with kapton tape. That evenly spread the heat, as it was a bed slinger i noticed bed temps on different prints moved around (using a themal gun).
Later on other newer printers i got with glass beds i played around with a copper layer in-between the glass and the bed. That helped even out the heat, but also added thermal resistance ironically as it wasnt perfectly flat between each surface. Im sure a jar full of thermal paste would fix that 😅 but i never cared abiut cleaning up that mess so i never did that 😊
First of all, WOW, 12 years ago, you've been in this for a lot longer than most people. I haven't been anywhere close to that, but I'm impressed with how much has changed in such a short time with printers. I can design something and print it and use it the same day, and these aren't small parts either, it's quite satisfying, though I suppose if people are printing trinkets and toys, we're going to be filling the landfills quicker.
I thought about insulation a bit as well, but I want to desperately try the thicker bed option, I think it's going to do the best job even though it'll still warp and it will heat slower.
Just the other day I was thinking about using an entirely copper bed, and that would work if the bed didn't move up and down on these printers, the Voron 2.4 with the stationary bed would be perfect for this. Copper's thermal conductivity is better and it doesn't expand/contract as much, though it probably depends on the alloy we're using.
Do you have any experience with trying to reuse a silicone bed heater? How to remove it and then re-apply?
It only took me about 300 usecs to hit like, I already knew I'd like it. I am interested in the replacement beds for the K1Max you spoke about. Thanks for showing the gcode across multiple slicers, again for sharing!
It's my pleasure! LOL I rounded up to account for those slow clicker people :) I'll definitely let you know about the thicker bed option as soon as I can. I'll have a video showing a quick install and then some testing to make sure we're getting really good results. I can also show how long it takes to heat the bed, it will be slower but should be much flatter and stay a lot flatter. I have a surface plate that I can also test flatness against right out of the box.
@@NeedItMakeIt Thanks for the G code👍🏼 I will also be interested in the thicker bed.
@@RestoDesignsnando You're welcome! Cool, that's good to know how many people would want one, the company I'm working with had had a lot of requests as well, I think it'll be a popular item.
A great help which I've used on my k1cs (2 of them) to improve first layers - much appreciated, thanks!
My next nice-to-have on the code would be gcode which is pretty much like that where we add a dwell to the start-print.cfg, but instead of it dwelling for, say, 7 minutes from when it gets to there in the code, it dwells for 7 minutes from when the temperature of the bed reached the required set temp. That way, if when the code gets executed the bed has already been at temp for a while then it won't necessarily dwell for the dwell time, or will if it needs to (or even for just some of the 7 minutes if it's been at temp for 3 already, say). Anyone keen on a bit of coding for that (and more likely to succeed than me!)?...
Thanks again, brilliant stuff.
Mike's on fire 🔥
I would be literally as well if I purchased an A1 :) Thanks for all of your support!
I redid my bed leveling after a soak for a few min and the mesh was different. It makes sense because just because the thermocouple reads 55 doesn’t mean the whole bed is up to temp. That and a small z offset tweak has made a massive difference to my first layer
It's one of those things that's going to be really hard to tell, the timelapse videos really helped a lot to figure out what was going on and what we could do to try and get the best results. We're going to have some other options for more automated soaking hopefully soon.
Excellent. AGAIN!! Your channel is super useful!
Here's a GCODE question😅 I'll try keep it simple.. (I'm not expert at GCODE)
So this is for a None Rooted printer. So bare this in mind.
Orca slicer has the exhaust fan feature (Under Filament>Cooling) however, this activates the M106 P3 fan, The K1 & K1M doesn't have a P3 fan.
P0 = Model/hotend fan
P1 = Rear Exhaust chamber fan
P2 = Aux Fan
SO if you activate this feature, what ever % you use, for some reason modifies the Hot end fan speed😅 (You'll have 100% model fan at first layer for example)
However, if you activate this feature, Export your GCODE as usual and go through the GCODE in a text editor, replacing any M106 P3 with P1 then the exhaust fan "during print" & "Completed Print" works excellently.
How can I enter this exhaust activation in the Filament GCODE manually? I currently have
; filament start gcode
M106 P1 S255
Which is great during but I can't seem to keep the fan on after the print, even if I enter in the filament End GCODE, which I may be doing incorrectly
(Useful for ABS prints)
I'm getting caught up with some other emails and projects, I'll look into this a bit when I have a moment free.
thank you
You're welcome I hope this comes in handy. I know lots of people were having trouble on that first layer, this will get you where you need to be with a stock printer.
@@NeedItMakeItthank you . appreciate your effort in making this video
@@anurajms No problem thanks for taking the time to leave a comment and I'll work on bringing more and better content each week, and hopefully several times/wk.
To make the soak time-dependent based upon temperature, you want something like this:
G4 P{max(0, first_layer_bed_temperature[0] -10) * 6000}
This says to take 10 off the bed temperature, and then choose the maximum of 0, or that value
Then multiply that by 6000 to get to milliseconds
This way if you set the bed temp to 60 degrees, it'll wait for 50 * 6000 = 300000ms = 5 minutes
If you set it to 100, it'll wait for 100-10 = 90, then 90 * 6000 = 540000ms = 9 minutes
If it's set to zero, then it'll wait for 0ms
Awesome. I will try this out today, I attempted so write a similar calculation in, but it failed, I had the incorrect bracketry, but I like that you were able to simplify it to something so clean! I'll let you know how it goes.
@@NeedItMakeItWhat threw me off for a moment was that first_layer_bed_temperature is actually a vector, and not a scalar variable. In English terms, a vector is a like list of values, which means that it needed the [0] after it to get at the first value on the list. I found it odd, because in the slicer first_layer_bed_temperature only takes a single value, and not a list. Once I figured out what it wanted it was fairly straight-forwards. I just didn't expect something that should just be a single value, to instead be a list of values. I don't know, but maybe that's the issue you were running into as well with the bracketry?
In any event, this should work for all Prusa/Super-Slic3r based slicers, including Orca.
@@stew675 It works beautifully! it doesn't need to be vector, it could be directly proportional, 6min=60°C etc. This is very nice and elegant if you ask me. I've tried it with PLA and we have P300000, PETG has P420000, and ABS has 540000. I'm going to do a few prints with this and then I can make a short follow up video and link it, can I credit you in the video?
@NeedItMakeIt Sure thing (credit). I'm happy it works for you.
I think there's some slight confusion on what I meant by vector in terms of gcode variables, but let's not worry about that here. If it works, it works!
Does someone have the same problem as me? I have no problem with G4 P540000 but the machine will pop up error 2171 when I switched the Gcode to below.
M190 S[material_bed_temperature_layer_0]
G4 P{max(0, [material_bed_temperature_layer_0] -10) * 6000}
START_PRINT EXTRUDER_TEMP=[material_print_temperature_layer_0] BED_TEMP=[material_bed_temperature_layer_0]
I'm using Creality Print if that helps. Having this Gcode is very useful as I don't have to switch to different material but somhow i got a weird error. Thank you for any input.
Another great one Mike, thanks. I guess it's outside the scope start G-CODE but I wonder how we would manage the case of the *second* print we want to do, following the first one? If I understand the video correctly, especially the G4, we'd still be waiting10 minutes at the start of print 2 even though the bed has been heated for perfectly long enough (10 minutes initially + the print time of the first job we printed).
Glad you thought so! We were able to find a good solution for the dwell time, now we have code that will base the dwell on the bed temp. 5 minutes for 60°C and 9 minutes for 100°C.
For running a second print, there is a code to prevent the bed from cooling completely, we can implement that, the issue there is that if we forget, the bed will stay warm.
I think there's probably a good solution out there, we just need to think about the process and how it would normally work and there will be a logical way to handle it in the code. As far as I'm aware, we can't have a 2nd program waiting in queue, but maybe I'm wrong. Do you know?
If you want to skip the start gcode and do this all in Klipper you can update the Start_Print or Print_Start depending on how you have it labeled and if you have the printer rooted. This section below will heatsoak for 15 minutes if over 90 C for the bed, 5 minutes if between 60 and 90 C, and skip a soak if under 60 C. You can adjust as needed. I use a chamber temp sensor and instead of waiting 15 minutes I have it wait for a specific temperature.
{% if params.BED|int > 90 %} ; Checks if the bed temp is higher than 90c - if so then trigger a heatsoak.
M190 S{ params.BED } ; Wait for bed temperature to reach target
SET_DISPLAY_TEXT MSG="Grab a beer to warm up to" ; Displays info
G4 S900 ; Waits 15 min for the bedtemp to stabilize
{% elif params.BED|int < 60 %}
M190 S{ params.BED } ; Wait for bed temperature to reach target
{% else %}
M190 S{ params.BED } ; Wait for bed temperature to reach target
SET_DISPLAY_TEXT MSG="Soak for 5 min" ; Displays info
G4 P300000 ; Waits 5 min for the bedtemp to stabilize
{% endif %}
I think you have extra 0's in your 15 minutes wait.
@@JohnOlson Thanks, like I said I don't use it but rather the chamber temp. Should be correct now.
Very nice, that's a great option. Is this usable for PLA and PETG with the door/top open as well or do you find that you don't open them for those materials and rely on the fans?
@@tinkerandexpand yeah. Didn’t want someone copying it and wondering why it took forever. 🤣
@MakeIt This is for my Voron 2.4, so not the exact same as a K1, but for PLA/PETG I will typically leave the door closed so door/top on for K1. The main reason for this is that I moved to CPAP cooling and it can be quite loud. If I was still on the stock 5015 Stealth Burner part cooling I would probably still have it opened. There should be no issue with having the top off and door open though, I would assume. I feel that would be more reliant on ambient temp and making sure the soak time is long enough for the bed to settle or chamber to heat if enclosing it. Another thing that you can try for warping on heating and warping over time is adjusting max_power: under [heater_bed]. If there is no value set, add the parameter like "max_power: 0.75" to only allow it to use 75% power when heating the bed. Adjust around with that to see if it helps any.
I reluctantly bought the K1 and have not regretted it yet! That thing printed awesome pretty much straight out of the box. Here I thought I'd be tinkering with it and all sort of stuff, but nope. Perfect so far.
Having bought 7 previous Creality printers I did not even consider another Creality machine when it came time to buy a new super fast printer, I went for the Bambu Lab X1 Carbon as it was extremely hard to find anyone who did not like it or had issues.
How has your bed fared with the warping issue? If its good have bought it just recently?
@@AndrewAHayes Yeah I literally just got it a few days ago. Maybe they've made more improvements, but I'm telling you that thing prints awesome! It's simply perfect. I really wanted the Bambu Lab, but for the price I just thought I'd give the K1 a try.
what printer do you had before? just for comparison of your benchmark by awesome in your opinion
Morning Mike.
I hope this finds you well.
Great content, always enjoy following along your journey.
Mike as you’re Canadian content creator and in keeping with your theme of bed levelling and meshing. I thought I might pass this along to you, ( that is if you haven’t already done this).
How to increase the probe point count on the K1 Max. I’m currently running a 24 x 24 probe count without issues and great success.
It’s a bit of a process, so if you’re interested, please shoot me a message and I would be happy to walk you through it.
Cheers and best regards.
Ron.
From the West coast, Salt Spring Island.
is there a way to disable the nozzle wipe sequence with gcode? without rooting the printer
I've been doing this on my S1 Pro, gives me way better first layers. I'll pre heat for 5 minutes, run a bed mesh, then pre heat 5 before starting a print.
Any printer with a thinner bed could probably do with a little pre-heat, the K1 Max seemed to be the most impacted by this, whether it was because of the bigger size, or from the faster heating, or a combo, I can't be sure. I will have a thicker bed option video hopefully it solves the issue and we can move on to something else.
Hello, Incredible work you do, thank you for it. I have implemented the gcode with 80º for 10 minutes in Creality Print and I have printed 5 0.2mm discs distributed in the corners and the center of the bed. I have told it to run the Lidar calibration and the result is disastrous. It makes the zig zags, checks them with the camera and passes the laser through the area of the first figure, then it stops the gcode for 10 minutes, prints the first figure and goes to the cooling area of the nozzle, once cooled it begins to raise the temperature and complete the other figures without further leveling or mesh. A disaster. Impossible to print large pieces with PETG until they implement in the firm the possibility of executing calibration depending on the temperature of the filament to be used or solve the problem of bed deformation. At the moment it is only an amazing and expensive printer to print only PLA (because the temperature of the bed is close to that of the calibration) and not very large pieces either. 💔
Thanks, I'm trying to provide solutions to everyone so they have have a better success and share my struggles along the way.
I'd have to try and remember what my scanner did, since the bed was warped when it was trying to use it, the results were not very good and it was not performing flow calibration. That setting is available however it is experimental, and when I tried it, the flow was modified far too low and the prints failed. Have you watched my first video on the K1 Max review? I spoke about the scanner itself. It is not a dual red laser scanner, but a single scanner and it doesn't know the height of the bed precisely, it's not a true LiDAR, it's just a laser which projects a line on an angle for the camera to be able to pick up, even more strange is that the laser isn't being used all of the time, it seems to use the light and camera for the PA calibration. I have another video I want to make on the subject but most people that I know do not use it. It's not reliable and causes more problems than good. I haven't given up on it completely but I needed to understand why it was so unreliable before trying to get it to a point where people could use it with some level of success.
I'll think about this a bit more and see what might help you, I don't have any solid solutions yet because it's fairly new territory for me. Does the PA testing even take advantage of the mesh, it's a process of it's own?
@@NeedItMakeIt Thanks for answering. The truth is I didn't see your review video of the K1 Max, before buying it I let myself be influenced by a few videos of "undercover Creality sellers" and the desire to have a K1 MAX did the rest... :-(. The The bed of my CR-10S also had that problem but to a lesser extent and after so much time I thought that Creality would have solved it. I also did not use the Lidar much due to the problem that it controls the temperature of the nozzle during the process and releases debris during the calibration but I thought it was more effective and would do something... I think Creality is using us as a "Beta Tester" or "guinea pig" for their machine.
Well, deep down we are "Makers" and leaving aside the money that the machine costs to avoid stomach ulcers, let's try to learn from/with it. Great job.
I always preheat my nozzle asked bed before printing.
So that's a good point as well, the nozzle length can also increase when heated, it can expand as much a 0.1mm and that in itself can make a difference.
Perfect timing. I have been eyeballing a K1 Max as a new printer.
Nice, it should get you where you need to be with this printer on the first layer. Since doing these changes I've had great success with it, I don't think I really have any complaints about the printer, it was really just that first layer.
could you give tutorial to root klipper on K1? I know you mentioned in previous video, but it is only link to general tutorial, for me or maybe most of your viewer it is confusing, I'm even failed do a calibration from custom ellie gcode calubration, I scratched my K1 Bed 😅
This is a great idea. Here is the issue im having, even with the dwell. The print will dwell, hold temp and then once its ready it will start its print process. Which includes clearing the nozzle. Where on the K1 it goes to the back of the build plate, wipes the nozzle and cools the nozzle. Durring this portion RIGHT BEFORE THE BED MESH. The bed temp is dropped by 5 degrees.... so by the time it goes to probe, the beds temp is now trying to get back to the dwell temp.... so all that waiting just to get to the bed mesh and have that literally be the only portion where the temps are fluctuating as the bed is trying to get back to temp. I'd imagine thats something to do with the start print, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to change it. I got my printer set up with a helper script and everything is locked in the start print gcode so I can't really go in and change anything. I've tried to get it to dwell again before probing but cant figure it out. If anyone has any guidance on this, that would be AMAZING.
We have some more info on this but I need to run some tests first, I'll do this over the next few days. What I saw as well during the nozzle clean is that the AUX and the Part Cooling come on full, those two seem to want to cool the bed down, they're trying to cool the nozzle, but the AUX, just moves a little air around at that point, it could probably be done just with Part cooling. I also don't like that wipe procedure it's slow and heating and then cooling and then re-heating the nozzle, doesn't make a lot of sense. Better to have a more automated wiper system, can't someone design a system like a carwash for a nozzle? Go through 2 stages of motors that spin a silicone or brass brush?
Here is my thought on the cooling fans kicking on. I believe that they are blowing enough air to influence the value you're getting on the thermistor. What I mean is, I believe the the value the thermistor is reading is different from what the bed actually reads. I put my bed temp to 100 and watched the graph. I noticed when the fans kicked on the thermistors value of the bed temp dropped from 100 to 95 in about 5 seconds.... which I don't think is possible. The bed power then shot to 100% and the value read for the bed was somewhere around 96 degrees. What i suspect is happening is that once the bed kicks back to 100% power trying to reach 100 degrees and the machine starts probing, i think the bed is getting much hotter and warping the bed as its being probed which gives you bad values which messes up your first layer etc. There are macros available on klipper for fan control during the start print. I just don't understand what it's doing.@@NeedItMakeIt
I ended up adding a fan speed macro in my print config to completely disable the fans in the start of the print. Bed stayed at a nice consistent temp while probing. First layer went down FLAWLESS. Not really sure how to put the macro here on youtube, but I'd be more than happy to send it to you on discord or something. @@NeedItMakeIt
I'm hoping you're working with Gulfcoast Robotics. Looking forward to their updated bed for k1 max
I have been working with them yes, I hope to get the updated version to test out and show the results in a video as well. I'll keep everyone posted.
I've been printing non-stop on the K1 Max for my business and it's an amazing printer. I still have yet to do the shim technique to level the bed.
😭
Hey! If it works, it works. I had a lot of trouble with my first layers on the Max, it really depends on what you print, and where you print, when I printed large pieces I had some PLA prints turn out really well, but the PETG and ABS didn't work out as nice on the first layers, some were hideous.
I really want to do the bed swap for the thicker plate and see what the difference is. I also have another idea and I think I'm going to make a video about casting my own bed (K1 smaller printer first). I want to see if I can make a light bed with a webbed structure which also stays flatter. I have no clue if I can, but it's a neat idea to try at least.
Nice to hear from you again my friend!
@@NeedItMakeIt the thicker bed makes sense. I took the existing plate and methodically bent it backwards to give the corners some tension. This keeps my corners down while printing, which was another issue I was having.
@@NeedItMakeItI have an X-Max 3 with the 6mm thick plate, as well as a K1, and an X-Plus 3, which both have the 3mm thick plates
All values below are measured after heat soaking.
Total flatness variation on the K1 is around 0.23mm across the 220x220 build area
On the X-Plus 3, it's typically 0.16mm across the 280x280 build area at 60C temps, although at 100C it climbs to around 0.24mm
On the X-Max 3, it's around 0.08mm total height variation across the 325x325mm build area, and that seems to be fairly consistent from 60-100C bed temps
The only downside to the X-Max 3 is that with such a massive chunk of aluminium is that it takes around 8-9 minutes to hit 100C from room temperature, and about another 10 minutes to stabilise, but once stable it is so very flat.
@@AvocadoAtrocity I was having the exact same problem with mine, beyond those holes the corners dipped down. It's tough to know how much to adjust since it changes so much based on the temps. I have been looking at some of the other printer brands and they all seem to have thicker beds for these sizes of build-volume. I'd love to try copper, but it's probably far too heavy. There must be an alloy out there that can be injection molded, if they do can do the frame, why not the bed?
Looking forward to a new chunk of aluminum being available 👍👍
I don’t know if it would be possible to remove the heater from the existing bed, or if one could buy a new one.
Actually, Amazon has replacement bed heaters in stock.
Would be interesting to see different results on which position the Bowden tube is in when using the entire print bed.
Are you thinking that changing friction in the tube could play a role in the print quality?
@@NeedItMakeIt yes especially when it's in the back left corner area I feel like it gets restricted
@@lolmandood Are you able to send me a picture to make sure I have reproduce the level of pinching you're seeing. I've also done testing in the past on different materials and there is a lot of difference between PETG ABS and PLA with no restriction at all. PLA came in at requiring nearly 2x the force to move it through a short Capricorn tube compared to ABS and PETG. It wasn't extensive testing, since I only used what I had in stock.
have creality started shipping units with beds that don't warp yet?
I have a few videos on this subject already, but they'd need to change the thickness of the bed and also the way that they've mounted them to the frame below, 4 point mounting causes problems during the heating cycle according to the company that makes printer beds. I hope they'll make any new printers they send out with thicker beds and they can avoid one of the biggest problems with the printer. Aside from that, it's a good unit, I really like using it and the Max having the extra space does make a difference. Now I don't feel as restricted when I'm designing things.
I've shimmed the bed as per your other video which is a good solution and improved things, but it's still a disaster for ABS because the mesh taken at 50C is nothing like the bed shape at 100C. How did you manage to change the temperature that the mesh readings were taken at? What app did you use as it wasn't made clear?
I suppose not, that's because this video was the follow up to the previous two videos where we found the issues and had the original game plans. The best thing to do is manually adjust the temps first, let it soak, and then you can print from Creality Print with the calibration box checked off. Doing the calibration at the printer is going to use 50C.
If you can, I'd recommend rooting your printer and then you can adjust the temp from 50 to whatever you like.
Check out the video I have for rooting these printers, I made it quite short so it's not too boring to watch.
@@NeedItMakeIt Thanks so much for the reply. I'll see how I get on and consider rooting as a last resort.
@@StickyFeatures No problem. I always root them now, it's so much nicer and I use Orca and send directly to the printer, it's just overall a better experience. Creality print is okay, but Orca is quite nice to use.
do you think the "soak" time needed is relative closer to the bed temp up to 100c ? just heard you say this in the video ahahah, great minds!
I'm using orca slicer after I installed the line it starts print and it does bed lvl before heat then stops and waits the 9min heating bed then starts the print in your vid it waits the 9min heating bed and then lvls before starting print any help would be great Thanks
I just ordered a Neptune Max 4 Would I have to root that as well? What are your thoughts on the Neptune Max?
I just had a quick browse through and it looks like a nice unit an interesting way of adding more cooling as well, I haven't seen that before. From what I've read, I don't think you'll need to root it, it looks like they've used Klipper as it was intended and it should be open already, I don't see anything on the site to indicate otherwise. For Creality, they have their own slicer and cloud based software and for some reason they thought it was okay to use Klipper which is O.S. and block people from using it the way it was intended. I think Elegoo has a slicer, but it may just be for resin. I'd have to get to get my hands on one to be sure.
Looks like a solid choice, it has all of the bells and whistles you'd want and has the accelerometers built-in so you can make sure to get the best input shaping results.
You'll have to let me know how it does the leveling, it says 121 point setup, and with a nozzle probe, that would take a LONG time, it must use a different system, like Eddy Current.
So once we put that G code in, it will do that every time or only when you put print with calibrations?
Thanks
It will do it every time, though there is probably a way to do it differently, I'd just need to know when you want it done and when you don't.
I'm working on the feature to dwell based on the temperature right now I should have something to update everyone on in a few days to make it so we don't need to wait as long for a lower temp like 60C.
I just tested it. It only does it when you say print with calibrations so that’s good you can do one or without. Thanks again.
@@jacory1980 That's strange, when I tested without calibration on Creality print it worked each time. I have rooted and use KAMP, this may be why, something in CP may be overridden .
the auto code doesn't seem to work with the K1C unfortunately :(
LET IT SOAK lol. Yeah this makes much more since. I'd let it preheat but didn't get wouldn't notice the difference i think ill try this out with the dial indicator next time.
sign me up for a thicker bed lol. 👍
@@bigturbogti84 I'm still waiting for Gulf Coast Robotics to get back to me on this!
Until I did a timelapse, I had no clue there was so much movement.
One thing I’ve noticed when I put in the G code that you have for orca slicer. If I pause the print in the middle to do a filament change, it won’t let me use the track button for some reason, but when I go back to the stock code it works, what do you think that could be? Hope you’re having a good day brother.
My initial thought is that they shouldn't be related, the start code should only be referenced at the beginning of the code. I'd have to do a bit of research to see if pause somehow also references start Gcode. I suppose that it's possible. I won't have a chance today but I can do a bit of digging in the next few to see what we find.
Yeah, life is good, I can't complain, and to you as well!
What all the calibrations work using the orca slicer with this printer?
@@jacory1980 Orca can drive pretty well any printer, it's just a matter of having the profile, I just checked and there is a Neptune 4 max in there already to pick from, so you should be G2G to use Orca.
@@NeedItMakeIt all the calibrations should work as well? That’s what I meant to ask. Sorry.
It does seem to do bed calibration, it does not do PA or filament calibration, I believe only Bambu slingers do that at least for now.
Does this apply to the k1c? Does it have the same issue?
It applies to pretty well every 3D printer, some have less of a problem than others, anything with a 3mm alum bed and 4 points of connection to the steel frame below the bed seem to be most prone to these problems. Someone has mentioned that the K1C had trouble with the method in the description I've left, but I don't see how that's possible, it's generic Gcode and it only differs based on the slice, but if you have trouble, please let me know and I can dig deeper!
Okay and thanks for replying !
No problem!
Hi Mike. So I've been working on a revised Heat Soak Gcode macro that better handles temperature variations, as well as handling pre-heat-soaked beds without forcing a fixed wait time. Basically the macro can detect if the bed is already warmed, and reduce the soak time accordingly.
Unfortunately trying to post this macro (it's around 120 lines) on UA-cam comments isn't going to work. I also tried to join your Discord server from the link in your Community description, and get an invalid invite message from Discord when using that. I'd like to provide the macro to you and your community for use, so please let me know what would be the best way to get it to you.
Hi Stew, that would be great! That link has likely expired. discord.gg/kpdP9AB This one will expire in 6 hours so let me know and I can create another if needed.
can you create another link? I'd like to be able to uses @stew675's macro on my k1 max@@NeedItMakeIt
@@ligh7c I'll post it when it's available, we'll need to run a few more tests to be sure we're all G2G. You'll need to Root to be able to use it if you haven't already. I have a video I just released on that if you need to.
After adding the m190 command to the g-code the printer no longer calibrates after the dwell time, just homes the head and goes straight to making a purge line then prints. Setting the bed temperature on the printers touchscreen then having it calibrate does not work as it waits untill the bed is 50°. I may try rooting it, but I'm afraid that is going to open another can of worms.
If you're using Creality print, it will only calibrate when you check that box, otherwise it will use the stored bed mesh. Can you confirm that this box was checked? The M190 command won't cancel other commands, so there must be another explanation. Rooting your printer and installing KAMP will provide better overall results so I would still recommend doing it.
Yup I make sure "calibrate" is checked every time. Sometimes it does calibrate and sometimes it does not. I am trying to find exactly why sometimes it does and sometimes it does not. This latest time it calibrated the bed level before the dwell time.
@@Killerx1561 Do you have the Max by chance? I've found this issue as well, sometimes it runs the laser scan, sometimes not, but this was an issue I had right out of the box.
Yup it is the Max, its on the latest firmware. I tired messing with it a little tonight, I cannot find any rhyme nor reason it wont calibrate the bed. I use orca slicer so I never had the pressure advance test work or the bed laser scan, even though the latest firmware says it can support it.
not sure what i did wrong but i copied the auto code in for creality and after about 5 min of probing i pulled up an error code 0500 key217 ... rebooted the machine and made 3 attempts at it but no go ... after i removed the code i got my printer k1 max to print as it was before.. maybe i will try the 10 min version see if that will work
I think you're the 2nd person to have problems with the more complex code in Creality print, I'm not certain what the problem is exactly since this isn't an issues I've had. the longer version should work fine to give it at least some kind of soak.
@@NeedItMakeIt thanks for the reply, i have yet to come back to trying it. I had moved on to getting adaptive bed meshing working .. however to day is not my day :(
I tried the Creality Print autotime code on my k1max with creality print, but I got an unspecified error (e0500).
I've tried it with Creality Print myself, so that's a bit strange.
@@NeedItMakeIt yeah, didn't get it either. but i switched to orca and that works great.
@@jfb752 You'll be much much happier working with Orca, you'll have the latest and greatest, and it's quite a bit faster, there are so many pros, it would be hard to list them all.
@@NeedItMakeIt videotopic? ;)
I’m getting a clicking noise from my extruder I took it apart everything looks clean but it’s still clicking I took the nozzle off I have that little metal rod that it came with should I be able to push that all the way through with the nozzle off because it’s not going all the way through. It makes me think maybe something is stuck in there.
If you were printing PLA, it's possible you had heat-creep and you got a clog above the nozzle. I can't say that I've had this problem, but what I can recommend is that before putting the nozzle back in, make sure it's clear above the nozzle, re-screw in the nozzle and the heat it back up to 240 and then push some filament through manually. I haven't had a single clog running the 0.4mm nozzle.
Another thought is that if your first layer was too close to the buildplate, it would likely skip and wear the filament away, if you were to release the extruder and manually push it through, that would help for that, re-calibrate the bed and you should be good.
Let me know how it goes!
@@NeedItMakeIt it was in the actual nozzle. I got a torch and it used right out. How can I how can I subscribe to your Patreon man you’re awesome?
@@jacory1980 Good call with the torch, on the days of the Ender 3 printers, they came with long needles for unclogging, as if it was expected to happen from the factory.
Any any all help to support the channel is welcome! I'm on a mission to provide new content more than once per week and of course help the community as best I can. Lots more to come! www.patreon.com/Needitmakeit
If you join our Patreon you're also welcome to join our Discord, we've got a great bunch of skilled people on there as well, it's great having a group of like-minded people to help problem solve and to come up with new ideas.
@@NeedItMakeIt just signed up!!!
@@jacory1980 Awesome I'm glad to have you! Let me know if there is anything specific you're looking for and I can try to work them into the schedule. I have about 15 videos planned... but I can always try to fit something in especially if there are lots of people that would benefit from one.
Maybe it's me who misunderstands you.. You mention "this one for Creality Print" and show in the video 🙂
M190 S[bed_temperature_initial_layer_single]
G4 P540000
but in your text below the video, you write as follows.
CREALITY PRINT(Auto-time)🟦
M190 S[material_bed_temperature_layer_0]
G4 P{max(0, first_layer_bed_temperature[0] -10) * 6000}
Which one of them is the right one that I should use for my K1C? 😀
That's right, in the description we've found a slightly better method, both will work, however the one with more lines of code is superior because it will change the soaking time based on the material or the bed temp itself.
@@NeedItMakeIt can I copy and paste 1:1 from your text and then paste into my Creality print?
M190 S[material_bed_temperature_layer_0]
G4 P{max(0, first_layer_bed_temperature[0] -10) * 6000}
@@NeedItMakeIt btw, none of them work well in my "Creality Print" have tried them both.. First the one I got "error key:2171,unknown exeption" error when printing.. then went in and deleted the G-Code again, and then add the second one and then print again, bum error key:2171,unknown exeption error again, restarted the software, and the computer, and the printer several times, it gives the same error every time, then deleted your G-Code again, and then tried print, BOOM, then it just prints without problems :) So there is something in your G-Code that my K1C doesn't like 😀
But what happens if you want to print consecutive jobs? Ten minutes (or whatever ) each time could slow things down significantly.
Sure, I'm happy to work on something to help with that. There are some other changes on Gcode End, for example not allowing the bed to completely cool. I need to learn a bit more about Gcode programming for CNC machines. When I learned Gcode it was in college for woodworking CNC machines and it's now quite the same.
I am always amazed that the notion of gcode, that came from humble beginnings (way last century 😜) is still used with amazing results in modern technology.
@@philipershler420 That's a great point. Let's see 20 years ago I started to get into it for CNC machining and we programmed manually, which was SUPER tedious. Now it's not much different and all automatic. I've spent a little time on 5 axis gcode for woodworking, and WOW it takes a lot more time to wrap your head around it. We were doing saw blade calculations where the saw was used in 5 axis, and was mounted to an arbor and both sides of the blade needed to be accounted for, that was really tough!
Do you know when it was first used?
@@NeedItMakeIt Well here’s what Mr. Google has to say.
The first G-code was created in 1958 at the MIT Servomechanisms Laboratory.
The earliest version of G-Code was standardized by the Electronic Industries Alliance in the early 1960s.
@@philipershler420 I'm always amazed at how far we've come, but also how successful we were with so little automation before then.
There are probably far more efficient methods of writing code, but I suppose when humans need to be able to interpret it, this is what we need.
Warped bed = out of tram
Out of tram = parts not square and dimensionally unaccurate.
Sombody needa to make a product for a 6mm aluminum plate upgrade
I was hoping that Gulf Coast Robotics would have the kit ready by now, I'll follow up with them, they were supposed to send me one to test out. It's been 2 months now since I asked about it. Thanks for the reminder.
@NeedItMakeIt true. Yeah bro get on that because this is the only thing holding me back from buying a k1 max. As I very frequently print engineering jigs and if there not square it's unacceptable 🤣🤣
I'll send them an email to see where it stands. It's out of my hands until they send me a unit to test out unfortunately.
😂"don't ask why i'm telling you" I wont ask why, but how long did you wait?
Hahah... well it is kind of embarrassing, but in my defense I copied it from a post, and that post had an extra 0 so I waited nearly an hour, but I just thought it wasn't working until I saw that the bed temp was still up... In my case I waited 50 minutes and then the print started. Let me tell you, that bed mesh was not changing after that dwell!
are you in the d3d discord
I'm not, we have our own channel for Needitmakeit that we've been growing.
@@NeedItMakeItnice i only ask because every thing we have talked about in the d3d discord for the last little while i see a video from you taking about the same thing. keep up the good work.
I tried it. First try gave a first layer of my dreams. Second try came back to shit. I cannot trust this machine. Its so sad
Which printer do you have? K1,K1C, or Max? You've added the extra code to let it soak already?
I have a K1. Did the soak method right now! Fingers crossed. 210x210x0,2mm single layer sheet is on the run. The bed shims method gave me a 0,377mm average total range (before it was 1,2mm).
Not ideal, but way better. After I nail the soak thing, I will try again later to see if I can improve it further. Learned all from your videos! The other thing I did was go slow as hell. 10mm/s outer wall and infill on first layer. Tomorrow I´ll come back and tell you if it worked. Thanks for the help and attention, mate
One thing I´d like to ask: Do you really trust 5 minutes are enough @60ºC for PLA? (based on the algorithm you provided)
@@NeedItMakeIt
@@NeedItMakeIt Yeah I did. What kinda helped was use your code + 10mm/s on first layer. Still get only about 50% of success
@@NeedItMakeIt K1, 2023 october batch. I really dont know what to do anymore.
having one bed screw tight and other 3 just snug, will allow bed to expand and contract without warping the bed, you need to heat soak for an hour or two to allow bed to relieve stress. after this you should find bed has less warp and more flat. you may still need to level bed with shims etc.
Ah, that's a neat trick. Having spoken to some manufacturers of beds, they don't recommend the 4 point connection and you're method is a good way around that. I'll give that a try!