The biggest challenge facing low emission hydrogen is that it is expensive to produce, expensive to transport, expensive to store, expensive to distribute, and expensive to use. Whether you're switching existing users to clean hydrogen or pushing hydrogen into sectors where it's not currently used, it takes money - and lots of it. (extract from the "Cleaning it up" podcast). Countries have spent wasted millions on hydrogen as a fuel.
They want to replace dirty gasoline and diesel with "clean" hydrogen, but still tie me to buying it from a supplier at a location far from my home, when I can charge my electric car at home cheaper, and cut out the middleman.
In the Marine Industry we too are looking at alternative fuels. Heavy Oils are mostly used at sea on big ships, that muck that belches out black smoke you can see from Space. Only when the ship comes close to the coast do they switch to light fuel-oil to look clean. All the EV cars on Planet Earth can't cover the pollution 1000 ships on passage. This is why we are looking at Ammonia, a richly dense fuel full of Hydrogen. Basically similar power plants we use today can be remade as compatible.
I had a look last night, there were 3 hydrogen fuelling points for cars available in the UK - London, Sheffield, Aberdeen. Anyone promoting hydrogen as a fuel for cars is either a fool, or a fossil shill. They almost never own a hydrogen powered car and if they do, they have more practical vehicles to actually use daily
Just watch the Engineering Explained video from last year. Clearly proves, mathematically in fact, why this just doesn't work for passenger vehicles. There's a reason why the EV won out over hydrogen. These "paid" ads are getting a bit too frequent on this channel.
A small problem with Hydogen power , at this time, is cost. I have been reading and hearing about Hydrogen power for the past 50 years, yes 50 years, the principle for using the gas is well known , but still the price point for clean Hydrogen is too high. It may be that the promised breakthrough in Fission electrcal generation will occur, (again I have been waiting for 50 years) but until we have very cheap eletricity to spare the future will still be BEV, or other electric power trains. Producing Hydrogen that is not pollution free in its process is a non starter. The world wide requirement is for non polluting vehicle power. be they BEV Trams , Trolley buses, pantograph lorries etc. Priced and available for the masses. Not once was the real world cost mentioned in this video, very interesting though is is.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars have been around for over a decade. Honda had the clarity. Toyota had the Mirai, which is now on generation 2. The problem was always the lack of fuelling stations to fill up with hydrogen. There is one in my small city, but it’s in the bus depot and used for their own buses.
And hydrogen is very expensive compared to just plugging into the grid or your own solar panels. I've very comfortable not going to a gas station to buy gas or hydrogen.
1:25 "About 50% of today's hydrogen comes from natural gas..." Yes, and most of the rest comes from oil and coal. A little under 5% comes from renewable sources, and that isn't going to grow because it's far more economic to use the electricity via a battery or transport it via wires than convert it to hydrogen. 95% of Hydrogen for transport discussion is greenwashing and it's irresponsible not to say that. Unsubscribed.
Sooooo ...let me get this straight. You take electricity that you could put straight into an Electric car and use it to create Hydrogen which goes into a Hydrogen fuel cell .... to create electricity?? OR ... You take electricity that you could put straight into an Electric car and use it to create Hydrogen which goes into a combustion engine ..... with thousands of complicated moving parts and a tank full of highly explosive gas under your seat at 5000psi. (Do people even even know what happens to a SCUBA tank in a car crash? It's like a bomb going off). Am I missing something here? This doesn't even start to address the distribution & delivery issues of Hydrogen. The whole thing seems so over-complex.
I think you would have been better off doing a video on how the distribution is going to happen rather the vehicles but that wouldn’t have ticked the boxes for Michelin I guess. I think hydrogen does have a place for buses and construction but otherwise I think it’s going same way as the Betamax video 🤷♂️
Oooh, bad example. Betamax produced a far superior picture (not as good as the Phillips 2000 though). VHS however had the huge library of porn available. With that the worst quality video (VHS is truly diabolically bad!!!) won.
@ great example, that’s my point, it would be great if Hydrogen was part of the solution but like VHS Electric already has its foot in the door and rather than sorting the infrastructure they’re producing cars that no one can use
0:36 "...I think that the future of automotive propulsion systems is more than just battery electric." er.. you mean like a hundred years ago when there were horses, steam powered and electric vehicles along side petrol vehicles? I suggest you learn some history and economics. Hydrogen used for road transport is a nonstarter for all the reasons already put in the comments by many others.
Hang on there are only 16 Hydrogen filling stations in this country. Come back in a few years and talk to us sensibly. I’ll be dead by then. River simple? Sums it up really….cos they are.
Great video, sadly there is one flaw in this. I am sure they are all great engineers, but they still cant bend laws of physics. Unless we have abundance of electricity from nuclear plants, manufacturing of hydrogen is still not cost efficient! You have to pay more than for electricity, you have to visit a specialised station instead charging at home, you still support monopolies, because you cant produce hydrogen on your own. and after decades of work you still don't have a single comfortable car that could match market expectations. Hydrogen sounds great for heavy duty machines/transports, because they need dedicated stations anyway, and have more space for tanks. can be used as fuel for electricity generators next to ev charging hub (if we can use free nuclear energy), but hydrogen passengers cars? Still cant see a purpose.
This video is not going to date well. Anyone who really looks into it will quickly discover that hydrogen is a non-starter as a fuel for any widespread adoption, barring some niche applications. Please, let's stop kidding ourselves. - there are too many downsides to hydrogen. Sad, but true.
Physics is the reason why hydrogen WILL never be a viable fuel for cars. Hydrogen is the second smallest atom known to man thus it is very hard to prevent leakage. It also needs to be stored at MINUS 253 degrees C and 10,152 psi (700 bar). As the owners of the Toyota Mirai have found out. The hydrogen filling nozzle can freeze in place when filling and Toyota's official guidance says in the owners manual is to wait a few minutes after filling for the connection to thaw and it'll release. They don't tell you how to release that connection when the ambient temperature is near or below zero. They don't store hydrogen at the filling stations at 700 bar but to get a worthwhile amount of hydrogen (range) in the car it's compressed by the filling pump at delivery. This means that the pump needs to compress the liquid hydrogen for the next delivery after the first delivery has been dispensed. This is why we've seen long queues forming at hydrogen filling stations in California. They are waiting for the filling pump to recompress before they can fill the next car. Ultimately electric cars probably wouldn't have caught on as well as they have if Tesla hadn't created its own charging network. I can't think of another car manufacturer that has done the same. Toyota certainly didn't create a hydrogen filling network. Hence they have failed to get a decent foothold in California and Norway. (Whilst Nio have a network of battery swapped stations, few exist outside of China, hence why I don't consider this a real network)
Hydrogen and synthetic fuels are definitely part of the solution but they will be at the margins. The elephant in the room is the cost to produce the fuel. Large vehicles can use hydrogen and old classics can use synthetic but at a cost. Where they are needed they will excel.
I would like to share your vision, but hydrogen is just too energy intense to produce it green, you may as well use the energy that makes hydrogen, to make electricity and store it. We at a new revolution in transport and hydrogen has been stepped over.
Hydrogen is just too energy intense to produce it green. Please explain. Hydrogen is easy to store, electricity is not. It can be created with electricity created by green methods in periods of glut.
@@matthewoakley3772 How are you making your electricity? Most hydrogen produced today comes from gas using high temperatures, and requires masses of energy and is not green. If it is made from water it requires masses of energy, not many countries are fully green electric on the scale required. Basic school science converting one energy to another is not efficient. If you think hydrogen is easy to store you need to look into it ,1kg of hydrogen requires 11m3 to store it at atmospheric pressure. To shrink it to make it smaller to store, requires even more energy. Hydrogen was a pipe dream. If you all ready have that energy in electricity it is just easier to use electricity.
@@matthewoakley3772 Hydrogen is TERRIBLE to store. It escapes out of literally everything as a gas. Anywhere that contains a hydrogen tank needs to be ventilated. To have better density, you have to liquefy hydrogen and that is a whole extra can of worms. You have to actively chill it or use it quickly. Liquid hydrogen tanks have to have a relief valve to release gaseous hydrogen to the atmosphere for when it warms up. So you use it or lose it. I can leave my BEV for literally months and watch a 1% loss of charge and that is mostly due to charging the 12v battery the connectivity runs off of. That being said, I do agree there are green ways to make it and it may not be bad to make during periods of extra energy. There are vehicular uses for hydrogen but they will probably be limited to medium to heavy duty vehicles if battery technology doesn't eclipse fuel cells first.
Glad to see from the comments that people aren't being fooled by the gaslighting from the hydrogen lobby. Hydrogen is too inefficient to produce by electrolysis and too difficult and costly to store and transport to ever compete with BEVs. The market has already decided. There are currently only 6 hydrogen filling stations in the UK with 5 of them being operational. Also who gave you that 50% figure of hydrogen being made from methane? The correct figure is 98% so its easy to see why the fossil fuel industry would like us to use hydrogen. Oh and FCEVs have batteries too so you're just adding expense and complexity to a BEV by fitting a hydrogen fuel cell.
Hydrogen has been produced for many years in Orkney. Sea water is split using surplus wind and tidal energy. Hydrogen fuel cells are used to power the hospital and Harbour.
@@gordonmackenzie4512 this is a reasonable use. If you have abundance of energy, create as much hydrogen as possible. Store, and use later or elsewhere
Yes, but if that was built now, rather than "many years" ago, I suspect it would be a different solution storing the surplus wind and tidal energy in batteries and then directly powering the hospital and harbour (and whatever else you want if you have a local grid).
@@lurcher300b it depends on how much and for how long they have to store. Storing electricity in batteries is EXTREMELY expensive and space ineffective. Yes you can have a powerbank for your house, but if we are talking about something like hospital the battery size would be enormous. More, in case of emergency, if you run out of battery, you are 'done' if you have generator run on hydrogen you can always transport and refill. Hybrogen is a dream material to deliver massive power to places where building high power installation is difficult/cost inefficient. but the entry point is the same. the electricity used to create hydrogen must be FREE, not green, FREE, like surplus from renewable sources or nuclear plants.
Hydrogen power will be a non-starter for transport in the long term. Fundamentally, every kWh of hydrogen requires two kWh of electricity to make. In vehicles hydrogen power trains are also more complex than those that are battery electric. This means that hydrogen vehicles will always cost more to make and run than electric vehicles. This will particularly be the case as battery storage density continues to improve, reduces in price and becomes faster to charge.
Absolutely correct, and worse than that, it is the smallest of molecules that means fundamentally difficult to store... it is leaky. Hydrogen's interaction with the atmosphere is a greenhouse gas.
Don't agree. If you can make your Hydrogen from renewables (JCB do this and Porsche has a different sustainable fuel from Renewables) then this is viable. It is particularly important to be used for some Trains, buses and critically Trucks. Electricity simply isn't good enough. Add the potential for development and this is a very exciting technology.
@@mrgrumpy771 But even if made from renewables it's far less efficient than using that renewable generated electricity directly. Trains buses and trucks are running on electricity now. Did you know those diesel locomotives use the diesel engine to turn a generator and then electric motors turn the wheels.
@@mrgrumpy771 A JCB that can only run at full power for a couple of hours per charge of H2 isn't going to be very popular with building firms, when there are now electric versions from other manufacturers that will run for a full 8 hour shift on a single charge. Nobody is going to be driving H2 cars, when they cost 20X more to fuel per mile than an equivalent electric vehicle.
We have been hearing about hydrogen for years with little to no real headway. Battery Electric is winning on all fronts including for heavy vehicles simple on cost and efficiency I wonder when the penny will drop..
Hydrogen for cars is a nonstarter. You very briefly talked about how it can be produced but completely skirted over the emissions problems with that process. If viewers want to find out more about the problem with Hydrogen I would suggest watching this video: ua-cam.com/video/2EA4tDYwNYo/v-deo.htmlsi=ttjt5nUCW8uoguMp The next Porsche Cayman is going to be electric btw.
Hydrogen production can be anything but clean to produce. The only method of production that is clean is via electricity but the ammout of electricity you use to make it is close if not more than the calorific/energy content of the hydrogen. In those terms the H2 is basically a battery and the other methids of procution have waste products like CO2 so hardly green. The last problem is the lack of infrastructure out there to use H2. I understand that the existing number of places you can fill up with H2 in the UK has actually dropped so the early backers have already started leaving the concept. The many many billions needed to deploy significant numbers of H2 filling stations are much better used elsewhere. An interesting concept but I feel doomed in it's everyday usefulness thanks to the lack of working infrastructure to help it work.
Interesting to see what these small companies are doing but you haven’t really justified why hydrogen cars MUST be part of the future. If you really thought carefully about the pros and cons of hydrogen, then you probably wouldn’t come to the same conclusion when it comes to cars.
Lol How to turn lot's of electricity into very little electricity Will appeal to the Petrol head audience who want to pretend that no change is needed. Truth is physics means that it's not going to be a thing. 6x the cost per mile. Anyone fancy increasing their fuel bill 6 fold? No? Weird that. There's absolutely 0 reason why electricity can't be wherever a car is parked. Terraces, flats etc. guaranteed that car is parked near electricity.
This has been hyped around the automotive world for over 30 years and will go nowhere. Too expensive to make, too expensive to store, highly corrosive and easily leaks, and inefficient.
To understand hydrogen power systems, do some home work on why large mining operations have abandoned hydrogen for battery electric motor systems, main reasons the regeneration of the motors driving to the face recharges the batteries substantially, the huge reduction of maintenance on brakes etc, finally the engines become redundant, saving on long term cost, to allow hydrogen to be used puts the control into the oil companies and governments, this is not good to be able to charge EVs at home gives us control, hydrogen is a dumb idea, the infrastructure to roll out hydrogen stations is a cost that’s a madness, shell is currently dismantling all its hydrogen filling stations, worth a thought on this hopeless future fuel,
@@Gopher31 Not to nitpick but It's not 40% it's closer to 24% (the 40% figure is for 'on plot parking' so doesn't include things like flats with car parking spaces for example) and that figure doesn't include people who don't currently have an ICE car (e.g. people living in London) so is likely even lower. It's possible to charge cheaply with on-street slow chargers like lamp-post chargers which are being rolled out across the county and should be common place by the time EVs are the majority in 2035+ so don't think hydrogen will be the choice for everyday drivers. Shipping and logistics is where I think hydrogen will play it's part, the batteries required to move huge cargo ships, 18 wheelers etc. long distance are going to cost huge sums of money relative to ICE even if batteries continue to drop in price so hydrogen is likely the better commercial option
Battery HGVs already exists, and most will run for 5 hours before a recharge is needed. Shipping is where H2 might be helpful, but only if it's from renewables, which currently most isn't. H2 power for cars will cost more per mile than public charging an EV, as H2 is very expensive to manufacture, transport and store. It's also extremely explosive in minute concentrations in air, which most people aren't aware of.
@AndyGardner-z6e This video was funded by Michelin to highlight the work they do with their technical partners. It was marked as a Paid Promotion. A film with high production values that took several days to film and many hours to edit but you watched for free !!
@AndyGardner-z6e Of course, because being a Brand Ambassador for Michelin means I have no credibility. You carry on watching UA-cam for free and I will continue to work with commercial partners that make it possible to create interesting and varied content for my audience to enjoy, whilst still making a living !
Separating Hydrogen currently contributes approx 4% of worldwide greenhouse gasses, a petrol car is less polluting. Using electricity to create it wastes 66% of the electricity compared to putting it straight into an EV so the cost is crazy. Hydrogen filling stations in the US are closing and here in the UK barely exist. Sorry Ped this is just Oil and Gas Shill propaganda.
These guys are all trying to figure out how to make a super efficient vehicle, but none of them explain why you would power it with much less efficient, much more expensive and much less available hydrogen.
Well I need to say LoL, and also, DOH! While I love the idea of alternative energy vehicles, I see that there's a possibility of a Hydrogen fuel hub being built in my home town in 2 years time. Any existing ones are for privately owned commercial use. Hmm, how about methane, he said? Ah, 'scuse me!
A great concept but this same River Simple vehicle has existed for at least 10 years now, funded by private investors They don't seem to have any commercial awareness and are no further forward to actually selling these Even the vehicle driven stated for research purposes
High Pete I’m a driver of an Ev and I do get what you say. But the elephant in the room is infrastructure or complete lack of it. It’s the chicken and egg situation. Without the fuel station you won’t sell a car without the car companies won’t set up fuel stations. This is the problem Toyota have with there hydrogen car. What is needed is a company like Tesla build the cars yes but put a infrastructure in place along side it. But if we are supposed to be moving to clean fuels then how hydrogen is made has to be bought into the equation. Using natural gas to produce it is not exactly clean. For commercial use definitely the way forward.
This is a very interesting look into hydrogen and how it can be used to power cars. Recharging is as fast as a fuel car 5 mins and can store much more energy than electric equivalent because the energy density is higher. You can also get existing fuel stations easily adapted for hydrogen than building rapid chargers. But also The hydrogen fuel cells themselves are complex and not as efficient as ev. Still more efficient than petrol cars. Plus hyrogen is highly flammable but so is petrol. However it can leak more easily due to the high pressures needed to operate in the tank. Then extraction requires alot of electricity. I think the fuel cells are progressing and are very safe these days and if power was obtained sustainably it could make hydrogen out to be a real contendor. 🤔
So the greener way to make hydrogen is an electrolysis hydrogen generator with an efficiency rate of 70% which needs to be shipped to stations while heavily pressurised to fuel a hydrogen combustion engine with 25% efficiency.. using fuel cells to power an electric motor would increase the efficiency to 50% ..... OR WE COULD JUST USE THE ELECTRICITY TO POWER THE EV 😂... Hydrogen will never be the answer
Myself and 2 son's have all clicked on 👍 for this comment, using our own YT accounts. Pedro in his wisdom has decided not to show the count, as in blocking!!!!! Can't take the criticism eh!
Those Riversimple chaps HAVE something there! That's the kind of car I want. It reminds me of my late, lamented CRX HF. Looking at the Viritech's brilliant solutions, all I could see was our friend, Richard Morgan, putting this tech in HIS customers' cars someday in the future. Mahalo for bringing a show full of hope and advancement in our future.
Good for trucks. Units are too big for car production. . EVs are ok for shopping, anything doing distance needs to be ice or hybrid. Evolution will improve everything in its own time, stupid mandates will just kill industry.
EVs are fine for long journeys. I regularly drive 400 miles in a day, and have absolutely no issues doing it in my comfortable, quiet, and efficient EV.
@johnnodge4327 but you have to rapid charge for 400 miles even if you leave home with 100% you must stop. I was talking to a mate of mine who drives an eqs 53 amg and he was telling me the battery is 108kw. And he was on a journey that was 450 miles and he ran it down to the point where he stopped at instavolt with only 4% left still with 160 miles to go after leaving home with 100%. Its a 108kw battery and he charged to 100% craming 100kw into the car for £85 pound. My diesel can do 50mpg on a run like that £60 wouldve been all he needed had he done the journey in my car. And that's not including how much it costed to get it 100% at home the night before so even more than 85 pounds really. And before you say he didn't need to go to 100% he was staying at a hotel that had no destination charging so he needed to go to 100% at the sevices because getting as much charge as possible for the trip home a day later another 450 miles back.
Is this guy is funded by our tax money for something that seems to be talked about a lot but seems to go nowhere. Be nice to see results but closing hydrogen garages to fuel hydrogen vehicles etc is not a good sign of it working or viable for cars. My ignorance maybe.
H2 is expensive, and while fast to refill, doesn't have the same range as a modest EV. An EV is agnostic as to where the electricity comes from, hydrogen isn't, so you have to take your H2 car somewhere to fill it. H2 works for large scale energy storage, but doesn't really work well enough for vehicles, so it hasn't taken on.
@@johnnodge4327EV’s are fine if you have the ability to charge at home but if not then they’re just a pain in the backside. Electric cars are the future and will evolve but they shouldn’t be the only solution!
So the fuel cell converts hydrogen to electric to power a motor... Mmm. So you are adding more cost & complexity to a EV. No wonder it's a dead power source.
In a future world of alternative fuel forms hydrogen conversion it is not sustainable for use beyond specialist areas of transport needs. So, yes maybe for public transport systems around cities and towns and between towns. Farm vehicles. But General motor car use No.
Personally I expect in a few years the climate change hyperbole will tail off as people realise it’s over hyped. So I expect the focus will then change and we will have a wide range and a mix of energy sources including efficient IcE cars.
Amazing insight, could you post some data or links supporting your preposterous claim about climate change or is it just something you ‘believe’ in despite the overwhelming evidence that you’re wrong?
Interesting stuff but indicative to me of the shortcomings of hydrogen as a fuel source in most scenarios. It all seems to assume that battery technology has peaked in terms of energy density which it clearly hasn’t. The complexity of using renewable energy to create green hydrogen via electrolysis, store it, transport it and then combust it to drive electric motors has an almost Pythonesque level of ludicrousness to me. If a technology could be developed for shipping, where hydrogen could be split from sea water to provide motive power for very large container ships, all being processed onboard that would be something but I’ve been advised previously that’s not going to happen. It seems to me despite the FUD that we’re getting close to a tipping point towards BEVs and hydrogen is unlikely to be a viable solution.
I recall the boffins at Riversimple from a decade ago. They are challenging the modern paradigm of overly large, heavy and fast cars that has only become worse every year. The same applies to electric. The original BMW i3 and the Dacia Spring are closer to what electric cars should be but conspicuous consumption, conservatism and aggression wins. In Australia many average people think they need 3500kg towing. Why, because it's possible and they have deep pockets, or at least they did, so they bought the Taj Mahal of caravans. History has shown that we won't stop until we hit the hard bump stops of excess. I suspect Riversimple and others like Aptera will remain a novelty, examples of where we should be heading but aren't.
Why would anyone want to use electricity to make hydrogen from water, then store that hydrogen in pressurized containers, than buy thy hydrogen from a third party, when I can just put the original electricity in my car to run it far more efficiently?
We are going to need portable energy sources other than batteries for many applications - agriculture and long-haul aviation as obvious examples. In the latter we are about an order of magnitude short on current battery energy density and for the former we have a huge number of remote sites which, at harvest time need harvesters of 200kW continuous power and bigger to work the clock round for a matter of days and then require negligible power for the rest of the year. Maintaining thousands of high power chargers for a once in a year use is madness.
So a lithium ion battery has a cycle life of 10'0000 cycles according to the riversimple expert, being 100'th of 1 million. How can this expert be correct when all the EVangelists say modern batteries hardly ever degrade. Of course my nearly 9 year old 30 kwhr battery would agree with the riversimple expert, having degraded by 42 % now with slightly more than 40 k miles on the odometer. Perhaps all the modern EV EVangelists who disagree with me on a regular basis could see major battery degradation in their EV's, when their EV's get oldish like my EV and degradation is not FUD after all ? No, can't be. Even the government backs EV's that have a very short lifespan as this expert suggests and therefore if he is right, will cause much more CO2 release in more regular production replacement, than a combustion engined car ?
@sdk2006b So are you saying that my nearly 9 year old 30 kwhr, slightly more than 40k miles distance EV hasn't got 42% degradation and the loss of 5 out of 12 battery bars. Do you think I need reading spectacles next time I look at my dash board ?
@SDK2006b 30 kwhr leafs were obviously the worst degrading EV's of all and more modern battery temp control systems are better but they are still just lithium ion batteries. Modern EV's degrade. Battery life channel's ID3 degraded 10% in 2 years, when he had it and that was a modern EV. You can't change physics and people with modern EV's will find that out as they age. James Cooke on youtube battery bricked at nearly 8 years old and that was a state of the art model S. My next door neighbour is complaining about his range, and that car was about 70k new and that age car are being bought back in the USA by Jaguar because of fires, look it up.
@@FredFox-m9v- my 3 year old Polestar 2 (36k miles) range was still the same when I gave it back. My 10 kWh home storage battery is 3 years old - charged every day from 0% to 98% and it’s still 100% battery health. Guaranteed to 80% after 10 years.
I agree we'll need some sort of "fueled" vehicle along with the pure EV, and I believe hydrogen will be a part but I question just how much hydrogen will fill the fueled section of the pie chart. The negative payback of cracking water into hydrogen is a huge cost. Cracking from natural gas defeats the purpose. Then there's the lack of fueling infrastructure. At least electricity is virtually everywhere so charging stations just need built. Hydrogen? Not so much. There's also the problem with hydrogen leaks. Ask NASA. Hydrogen is the smallest molecule and when storing it under pressure it's very difficult to keep connections leak free. An alternative fuel I hear Toyota is researching is ammonia and burning it in a free piston engine linear generator. I find this interesting...
Another delusional youtuber. Research the supply chain for hydrogen from creation to delivery and you'll find it's not practical except for very niche transport applications. The amount of electricity you'll use to create green hydrogen to drive a fuel cell car 100 miles, you could have driven an EV 300 miles. Hydrogen is marginally more efficient than petrol/diesel.
@@PetrolPed i was of the mind once that hydrogen was a possibility a while ago until i looked into the supply chain and all the problems with it and the poor efficiency of the end product. You should try researching it. Its a "fuel for the future" and will always be in the future because you'll never make enough of it for anything but niche areas. Look for stuff by hydrogen experts that are NOT part of the fossil industry. (e.g. Prof David Ceban, Michael Liebreich, Paul Martin)
So we use electricity to produce hydrogen, so we can then turn it back into electricity using a fuel cell, and the energy loss is being overlooked. Unless there is an excess of electricity on the grid, it could be a way of storing it, but batteries are better suited and far more efficient.
I am all behind hydrogen fuel celled vehicles. It must become about the environment and not the cost to produce hydrogen or we all slip over the edge of permanent climate catastrophe. The big picture must become a more widespread vision for humanity. The days of NIMBY have to end. If vehicle manufacturers start making hydrogen vehicles you can be damn sure fuel stations will sprout up like weeds as big oil see's where the wind is blowing.
Hi Ped, the first company, RiverSimple has some really interesting technology, the in-hub motor and brake system makes sense to me, as it removes drive shafts and the need for a differential. The super capacitor technology is also a potentially useful technology. As to the hydrogen side? I think this is a complete dead end, sorry, but I’m 60YO and the hydrogen debate has been around my entire life, it is very complicated to use as a fuel for a whole host of reasons that are based in fundamental physics and highly unlikely to change.
Peter…clearly you are speaking to a passionate and visionary man BUT I just cannot see that hydrogen will be able to turn the EV tide because rightly or wrongly, the Western World has decided that is the way forward…of course it has many flaws and solves nothing. Hydrogen?….as a practical power source, has decades to catch up. I see it as a certain choice for heavy engineering and fixed power units but Fred driving has XYZ Super to work in 2045 will be battling many problems by then. The World has to face up to the fact that there are too many people and population is now completely out of control. What car we drive and what powers it is academic…how we will live on this Earth with so many human beings is the real problem that is going to be a painful thing to solve.🤔🤔
Hydrogen may have a role in road transport but the infrastructure necessary to play a significant vehicle role is doubtful. It’s difficult enough setting up infrastructure for EV’s and electrical networking is everywhere. It’s a bit like LPG which sort of fizzled. ICE and EV’s will power most vehicles and as more EV’s are purchased it’ll impact negatively on the price of fuels for ICE vehicles. Non home charging for EV’s has to improve considerably such as covered charging stations and with battery charging technology improving charging times are coming down. It’s early days for EV’s but ICE vehicles will remain for a long, long time as their towing ability over long distances is unmatched.
Hydrogen was, is the replacement required. But both car manufacturers and especially governments tossed it aside because it would be cheaper than fossil fuels and electric. Its not that it can't be done... Its once again the greed of manufacturing and taxes.
Most of the manufacturers tossed it aside because it's a REALLY dumb idea for road transport. The governments don't care, they are just driving for zero CO2 which given ninety odd percent of hydrogen is extracted from fossil fuel, this technology will not do. Sure you can make it work in a zero CO2 way but it uses stupid amounts of electrical energy to make a little bit of hydrogen that it's not practical or cost effective and could never be cheaper than BEV.
Very interesting video Pedro. Thought provoking and a subject that will cause much debate. I guess we are at the point with Hydrogen similar to where we were with EV 10-15 years ago. It will be interesting to see how the technology develops driving down cost. I have to admit I'll need to watch this video again to fully get my head around it... Hydrogen really is re-writing the book when it comes to motoring. Oh and I like the production of the video. Very professional.
Going forward it won't be one fuel that powers cars, we are only used to petrol or diesel, we will be buying cars for our own needs, electric hydrogen, HVO will all play there part.
Thank goodness an alternative fuel is being explored. I am utterly sick of ev being rammed down our throats and have stopped watching your ev stuff sadly
EV is not the way. Its a way of the government to restrict the ordinary person from driving, by telling us all what we can drive and when we drive! Its all about suppression!
I like what this channel is about, but this episode is nonsense, as is the notion of using hydrogen for cars! Hydrogen is just an energy carrier, yes it works as a means of powering propulsion, the argument falls apart when you look at the cost of its production.
Obviously people have some strong opinions on the subject of hydrogen as a fuel source. That aside you produced a very informative video which I enjoyed. Your presenting style is easy to follow and professional. Nice to see the R & D from UK start ups and companies. Whether hydrogen makes it or not I agree we need a mix of propulsion systems for all forms of transport.
Another great video and very informative. I have to admit I knew very little about hydrogen vehicles but I now feel alot more informed. I have a lot of love for Riversimple after watching this.
What does Ed Milliband think i value his opinion 🤔…im joking im joking 😂…what i can tell you is construction cannot operate using electricity absolutely impossible…
Great content, as always! I have a quick question: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How can I transfer them to Binance?
As you have often said Pete, there needs to be a broader approach to our motoring future and clearly hydrogen should be one of the answers. The River Simple approach is a prime example where they are making a simple eco friendly ‘ town car’ that makes perfect sense as an individual transport option. The sad fact is that our current crop of politicians seem to be blinkered and are throwing everything down the rabbit hole of BEV!
Take the river simple then... would you "lease" one? Have you looked at the cost? And how you refill it? If not you, your friends and family, would you recommend it to them? Didn't think so. Just like the Toyota Mirai, it's too expensive, and too inconvent to fill up.
Hello Ped This is very interesting it great to learn something new I have a question why have drum brakes? Not disc brakes surly be better why is he talking about Miles It sound why not just pay road tax 1 yearly like we do normal? Very interesting at the Start about hydrogen and the different applications. Great video Thank you so much
This was very interesting to me,but the problem is the government and their lack interest,a long time ago I had a mg ztt V6 190 bhp,I loved the car and it ran on LPG,it was clean and cheap to run,but the government had no interest in promoting it IE not enough money in it for them,the way I know this is I know someone who ran a gas company and tried like he'll to promote it,I'm afraid it's what where up against,
Supercapacitors are the forgotten technology and very useful supplement for power source…but still need to be part of a number of routes to solve the energy issue. A very instructive episode,thanks 🎉
The biggest challenge facing low emission hydrogen is that it is expensive to produce, expensive to transport, expensive to store, expensive to distribute, and expensive to use. Whether you're switching existing users to clean hydrogen or pushing hydrogen into sectors where it's not currently used, it takes money - and lots of it. (extract from the "Cleaning it up" podcast). Countries have spent wasted millions on hydrogen as a fuel.
They want to replace dirty gasoline and diesel with "clean" hydrogen, but still tie me to buying it from a supplier at a location far from my home, when I can charge my electric car at home cheaper, and cut out the middleman.
lithium batteries have come down dozens of percentages since the supply chain issues during covid. Scale would solve costs for hydrogen.
In the Marine Industry we too are looking at alternative fuels. Heavy Oils are mostly used at sea on big ships, that muck that belches out black smoke you can see from Space. Only when the ship comes close to the coast do they switch to light fuel-oil to look clean. All the EV cars on Planet Earth can't cover the pollution 1000 ships on passage. This is why we are looking at Ammonia, a richly dense fuel full of Hydrogen. Basically similar power plants we use today can be remade as compatible.
Commercial ammonia is made from fossil fuels isn't it?
@@slloyd6577 the Haber-Bosch system used green energy and seawater.
I had a look last night, there were 3 hydrogen fuelling points for cars available in the UK - London, Sheffield, Aberdeen. Anyone promoting hydrogen as a fuel for cars is either a fool, or a fossil shill. They almost never own a hydrogen powered car and if they do, they have more practical vehicles to actually use daily
In the USA if you don't live in Los Angeles or San Francisco you are SOL.
Also the amount of energy it takes to create hydrogen you might as cut out the middle man and stick it in a car battery
But.... if you ARE the middle man selling fuels to be burnt for the past 100 years... then Hydrogen makes perfect sense... or 💸💰🤑
Just watch the Engineering Explained video from last year. Clearly proves, mathematically in fact, why this just doesn't work for passenger vehicles. There's a reason why the EV won out over hydrogen. These "paid" ads are getting a bit too frequent on this channel.
A small problem with Hydogen power , at this time, is cost. I have been reading and hearing about Hydrogen power for the past 50 years, yes 50 years, the principle for using the gas is well known , but still the price point for clean Hydrogen is too high. It may be that the promised breakthrough in Fission electrcal generation will occur, (again I have been waiting for 50 years) but until we have very cheap eletricity to spare the future will still be BEV, or other electric power trains. Producing Hydrogen that is not pollution free in its process is a non starter.
The world wide requirement is for non polluting vehicle power. be they BEV Trams , Trolley buses, pantograph lorries etc. Priced and available for the masses.
Not once was the real world cost mentioned in this video, very interesting though is is.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars have been around for over a decade. Honda had the clarity. Toyota had the Mirai, which is now on generation 2. The problem was always the lack of fuelling stations to fill up with hydrogen. There is one in my small city, but it’s in the bus depot and used for their own buses.
Exactly 3 Mirai have been sold in the UK in the last 2 years.
@@gordonmackenzie4512 also because the size of the tanks (“hydrogen is easy to store”) mirai is extremely compromised vehicle
And hydrogen is very expensive compared to just plugging into the grid or your own solar panels. I've very comfortable not going to a gas station to buy gas or hydrogen.
Notice how they never mention the range
Guys we’re in 2025 this feels so tomorrows world from the 1970s…
That was a great show but yes, hydrogen may be possible as a fuel, but that doesn't make it efficient or desirable for the end user.
1:25 "About 50% of today's hydrogen comes from natural gas..." Yes, and most of the rest comes from oil and coal. A little under 5% comes from renewable sources, and that isn't going to grow because it's far more economic to use the electricity via a battery or transport it via wires than convert it to hydrogen.
95% of Hydrogen for transport discussion is greenwashing and it's irresponsible not to say that.
Unsubscribed.
Sooooo ...let me get this straight. You take electricity that you could put straight into an Electric car and use it to create Hydrogen which goes into a Hydrogen fuel cell .... to create electricity??
OR ... You take electricity that you could put straight into an Electric car and use it to create Hydrogen which goes into a combustion engine ..... with thousands of complicated moving parts and a tank full of highly explosive gas under your seat at 5000psi. (Do people even even know what happens to a SCUBA tank in a car crash? It's like a bomb going off).
Am I missing something here? This doesn't even start to address the distribution & delivery issues of Hydrogen. The whole thing seems so over-complex.
Soo…let me get this straight…you didn’t watch all the film 🙄
I once suggested you would change from Petrol Ped to Electro Ped but how about Hydro Ped?
How about Pete the Delete!!! Iv'e noticed a deduction in a few of the 👍 totals . Phhhhh
@@MichaelWalding-q7o He's actually rubbing out!!!! 😂 Speaks volumes!
Not sure what you are in about 🤷♂️
I think you would have been better off doing a video on how the distribution is going to happen rather the vehicles but that wouldn’t have ticked the boxes for Michelin I guess. I think hydrogen does have a place for buses and construction but otherwise I think it’s going same way as the Betamax video 🤷♂️
Oooh, bad example. Betamax produced a far superior picture (not as good as the Phillips 2000 though). VHS however had the huge library of porn available. With that the worst quality video (VHS is truly diabolically bad!!!) won.
@ great example, that’s my point, it would be great if Hydrogen was part of the solution but like VHS Electric already has its foot in the door and rather than sorting the infrastructure they’re producing cars that no one can use
0:36 "...I think that the future of automotive propulsion systems is more than just battery electric."
er.. you mean like a hundred years ago when there were horses, steam powered and electric vehicles along side petrol vehicles? I suggest you learn some history and economics.
Hydrogen used for road transport is a nonstarter for all the reasons already put in the comments by many others.
Hang on there are only 16 Hydrogen filling stations in this country. Come back in a few years and talk to us sensibly. I’ll be dead by then. River simple? Sums it up really….cos they are.
Maybe watch the whole film 🤷♂️
Great video, sadly there is one flaw in this. I am sure they are all great engineers, but they still cant bend laws of physics. Unless we have abundance of electricity from nuclear plants, manufacturing of hydrogen is still not cost efficient!
You have to pay more than for electricity,
you have to visit a specialised station instead charging at home,
you still support monopolies, because you cant produce hydrogen on your own.
and after decades of work you still don't have a single comfortable car that could match market expectations.
Hydrogen sounds great for heavy duty machines/transports, because they need dedicated stations anyway, and have more space for tanks.
can be used as fuel for electricity generators next to ev charging hub (if we can use free nuclear energy), but hydrogen passengers cars? Still cant see a purpose.
This video is not going to date well. Anyone who really looks into it will quickly discover that hydrogen is a non-starter as a fuel for any widespread adoption, barring some niche applications. Please, let's stop kidding ourselves. - there are too many downsides to hydrogen. Sad, but true.
Physics is the reason why hydrogen WILL never be a viable fuel for cars.
Hydrogen is the second smallest atom known to man thus it is very hard to prevent leakage. It also needs to be stored at MINUS 253 degrees C and 10,152 psi (700 bar).
As the owners of the Toyota Mirai have found out. The hydrogen filling nozzle can freeze in place when filling and Toyota's official guidance says in the owners manual is to wait a few minutes after filling for the connection to thaw and it'll release. They don't tell you how to release that connection when the ambient temperature is near or below zero.
They don't store hydrogen at the filling stations at 700 bar but to get a worthwhile amount of hydrogen (range) in the car it's compressed by the filling pump at delivery. This means that the pump needs to compress the liquid hydrogen for the next delivery after the first delivery has been dispensed. This is why we've seen long queues forming at hydrogen filling stations in California. They are waiting for the filling pump to recompress before they can fill the next car.
Ultimately electric cars probably wouldn't have caught on as well as they have if Tesla hadn't created its own charging network. I can't think of another car manufacturer that has done the same. Toyota certainly didn't create a hydrogen filling network. Hence they have failed to get a decent foothold in California and Norway.
(Whilst Nio have a network of battery swapped stations, few exist outside of China, hence why I don't consider this a real network)
Hydrogen and synthetic fuels are definitely part of the solution but they will be at the margins.
The elephant in the room is the cost to produce the fuel.
Large vehicles can use hydrogen and old classics can use synthetic but at a cost. Where they are needed they will excel.
I would like to share your vision, but hydrogen is just too energy intense to produce it green, you may as well use the energy that makes hydrogen, to make electricity and store it. We at a new revolution in transport and hydrogen has been stepped over.
EV batteries are not green - slavery to mine Cobalt and the sources of Nickel constrain it.
Hydrogen is just too energy intense to produce it green. Please explain. Hydrogen is easy to store, electricity is not.
It can be created with electricity created by green methods in periods of glut.
@@matthewoakley3772 How are you making your electricity? Most hydrogen produced today comes from gas using high temperatures, and requires masses of energy and is not green. If it is made from water it requires masses of energy, not many countries are fully green electric on the scale required. Basic school science converting one energy to another is not efficient. If you think hydrogen is easy to store you need to look into it ,1kg of hydrogen requires 11m3 to store it at atmospheric pressure. To shrink it to make it smaller to store, requires even more energy. Hydrogen was a pipe dream. If you all ready have that energy in electricity it is just easier to use electricity.
@@matthewoakley3772 Hydrogen is TERRIBLE to store. It escapes out of literally everything as a gas. Anywhere that contains a hydrogen tank needs to be ventilated. To have better density, you have to liquefy hydrogen and that is a whole extra can of worms. You have to actively chill it or use it quickly. Liquid hydrogen tanks have to have a relief valve to release gaseous hydrogen to the atmosphere for when it warms up. So you use it or lose it. I can leave my BEV for literally months and watch a 1% loss of charge and that is mostly due to charging the 12v battery the connectivity runs off of. That being said, I do agree there are green ways to make it and it may not be bad to make during periods of extra energy. There are vehicular uses for hydrogen but they will probably be limited to medium to heavy duty vehicles if battery technology doesn't eclipse fuel cells first.
@@matthewoakley3772 “it can be created with green electricity” in the less efficient process that charging a vehicle with that green power.
Glad to see from the comments that people aren't being fooled by the gaslighting from the hydrogen lobby. Hydrogen is too inefficient to produce by electrolysis and too difficult and costly to store and transport to ever compete with BEVs. The market has already decided. There are currently only 6 hydrogen filling stations in the UK with 5 of them being operational. Also who gave you that 50% figure of hydrogen being made from methane? The correct figure is 98% so its easy to see why the fossil fuel industry would like us to use hydrogen. Oh and FCEVs have batteries too so you're just adding expense and complexity to a BEV by fitting a hydrogen fuel cell.
Hydrogen has been produced for many years in Orkney. Sea water is split using surplus wind and tidal energy. Hydrogen fuel cells are used to power the hospital and Harbour.
A much better use for hydrogen tech. The gas is used pretty much used at source reducing leaks. For general transport needs it's just silly.
@@gordonmackenzie4512 this is a reasonable use. If you have abundance of energy, create as much hydrogen as possible. Store, and use later or elsewhere
Yes, but if that was built now, rather than "many years" ago, I suspect it would be a different solution storing the surplus wind and tidal energy in batteries and then directly powering the hospital and harbour (and whatever else you want if you have a local grid).
@@lurcher300b it depends on how much and for how long they have to store. Storing electricity in batteries is EXTREMELY expensive and space ineffective. Yes you can have a powerbank for your house, but if we are talking about something like hospital the battery size would be enormous.
More, in case of emergency, if you run out of battery, you are 'done' if you have generator run on hydrogen you can always transport and refill.
Hybrogen is a dream material to deliver massive power to places where building high power installation is difficult/cost inefficient.
but the entry point is the same. the electricity used to create hydrogen must be FREE, not green, FREE, like surplus from renewable sources or nuclear plants.
Hydrogen power will be a non-starter for transport in the long term. Fundamentally, every kWh of hydrogen requires two kWh of electricity to make. In vehicles hydrogen power trains are also more complex than those that are battery electric. This means that hydrogen vehicles will always cost more to make and run than electric vehicles. This will particularly be the case as battery storage density continues to improve, reduces in price and becomes faster to charge.
Absolutely correct, and worse than that, it is the smallest of molecules that means fundamentally difficult to store... it is leaky. Hydrogen's interaction with the atmosphere is a greenhouse gas.
Don't agree. If you can make your Hydrogen from renewables (JCB do this and Porsche has a different sustainable fuel from Renewables) then this is viable. It is particularly important to be used for some Trains, buses and critically Trucks. Electricity simply isn't good enough. Add the potential for development and this is a very exciting technology.
@@mrgrumpy771 But even if made from renewables it's far less efficient than using that renewable generated electricity directly. Trains buses and trucks are running on electricity now. Did you know those diesel locomotives use the diesel engine to turn a generator and then electric motors turn the wheels.
@@mrgrumpy771
A JCB that can only run at full power for a couple of hours per charge of H2 isn't going to be very popular with building firms, when there are now electric versions from other manufacturers that will run for a full 8 hour shift on a single charge.
Nobody is going to be driving H2 cars, when they cost 20X more to fuel per mile than an equivalent electric vehicle.
We have been hearing about hydrogen for years with little to no real headway. Battery Electric is winning on all fronts including for heavy vehicles simple on cost and efficiency I wonder when the penny will drop..
But the is the point. Battery electric doesn’t really work for HGVs 🤷♂️
Hydrogen for cars is a nonstarter. You very briefly talked about how it can be produced but completely skirted over the emissions problems with that process.
If viewers want to find out more about the problem with Hydrogen I would suggest watching this video:
ua-cam.com/video/2EA4tDYwNYo/v-deo.htmlsi=ttjt5nUCW8uoguMp
The next Porsche Cayman is going to be electric btw.
Hydrogen production can be anything but clean to produce. The only method of production that is clean is via electricity but the ammout of electricity you use to make it is close if not more than the calorific/energy content of the hydrogen. In those terms the H2 is basically a battery and the other methids of procution have waste products like CO2 so hardly green. The last problem is the lack of infrastructure out there to use H2. I understand that the existing number of places you can fill up with H2 in the UK has actually dropped so the early backers have already started leaving the concept. The many many billions needed to deploy significant numbers of H2 filling stations are much better used elsewhere. An interesting concept but I feel doomed in it's everyday usefulness thanks to the lack of working infrastructure to help it work.
Just NO. Not going to happen, with the possible exception of expensive toys. There are so many reasons and you should know better by now.
Interesting to see what these small companies are doing but you haven’t really justified why hydrogen cars MUST be part of the future. If you really thought carefully about the pros and cons of hydrogen, then you probably wouldn’t come to the same conclusion when it comes to cars.
As we talked about in the video. Hydrogen can play a part in the 25-30% of transportation use cases where BEV doesn’t work 👍
Lol
How to turn lot's of electricity into very little electricity
Will appeal to the Petrol head audience who want to pretend that no change is needed.
Truth is physics means that it's not going to be a thing. 6x the cost per mile. Anyone fancy increasing their fuel bill 6 fold? No? Weird that.
There's absolutely 0 reason why electricity can't be wherever a car is parked. Terraces, flats etc. guaranteed that car is parked near electricity.
Exactly 👍🏻
Hydrogen is a no starter for me ,
This has been hyped around the automotive world for over 30 years and will go nowhere. Too expensive to make, too expensive to store, highly corrosive and easily leaks, and inefficient.
To understand hydrogen power systems, do some home work on why large mining operations have abandoned hydrogen for battery electric motor systems, main reasons the regeneration of the motors driving to the face recharges the batteries substantially, the huge reduction of maintenance on brakes etc, finally the engines become redundant, saving on long term cost, to allow hydrogen to be used puts the control into the oil companies and governments, this is not good to be able to charge EVs at home gives us control, hydrogen is a dumb idea, the infrastructure to roll out hydrogen stations is a cost that’s a madness, shell is currently dismantling all its hydrogen filling stations, worth a thought on this hopeless future fuel,
Hydrogen costs £200 per 200 miles you’re having a laugh
Yep - hydrogen will be another option, but not cheaper than a pure electric EV, plus other challenges not mentioned in this video.
Cheaper for the 40% who can’t charge at home I expect.
@@Gopher31- hydrogen fuel will cost more than public EV charging.
@@Gopher31 Not to nitpick but It's not 40% it's closer to 24% (the 40% figure is for 'on plot parking' so doesn't include things like flats with car parking spaces for example) and that figure doesn't include people who don't currently have an ICE car (e.g. people living in London) so is likely even lower. It's possible to charge cheaply with on-street slow chargers like lamp-post chargers which are being rolled out across the county and should be common place by the time EVs are the majority in 2035+ so don't think hydrogen will be the choice for everyday drivers.
Shipping and logistics is where I think hydrogen will play it's part, the batteries required to move huge cargo ships, 18 wheelers etc. long distance are going to cost huge sums of money relative to ICE even if batteries continue to drop in price so hydrogen is likely the better commercial option
Battery HGVs already exists, and most will run for 5 hours before a recharge is needed.
Shipping is where H2 might be helpful, but only if it's from renewables, which currently most isn't.
H2 power for cars will cost more per mile than public charging an EV, as H2 is very expensive to manufacture, transport and store. It's also extremely explosive in minute concentrations in air, which most people aren't aware of.
@@Gopher31Why would you expect that?
Sold out!!!!!!!!
Really. Why is that 🤷♂️
@@PetrolPed do you want to go and count how many time you mentioned Michelin?
@AndyGardner-z6e This video was funded by Michelin to highlight the work they do with their technical partners. It was marked as a Paid Promotion. A film with high production values that took several days to film and many hours to edit but you watched for free !!
@@PetrolPed I know but you didn't have to say Michelin every 20 words (exaggeration) sorry but thats sold out and voids any credibility you once had
@AndyGardner-z6e Of course, because being a Brand Ambassador for Michelin means I have no credibility. You carry on watching UA-cam for free and I will continue to work with commercial partners that make it possible to create interesting and varied content for my audience to enjoy, whilst still making a living !
Even a Toyota Miri only gets 200 miles of range for £200 per fill up. It’s a joke. 100x more expensive than electric
Separating Hydrogen currently contributes approx 4% of worldwide greenhouse gasses, a petrol car is less polluting. Using electricity to create it wastes 66% of the electricity compared to putting it straight into an EV so the cost is crazy. Hydrogen filling stations in the US are closing and here in the UK barely exist.
Sorry Ped this is just Oil and Gas Shill propaganda.
These guys are all trying to figure out how to make a super efficient vehicle, but none of them explain why you would power it with much less efficient, much more expensive and much less available hydrogen.
Very good and interesting PP. did I hear you mention Michelin?
Yep. They are a technical partner for both companies featured 👍
Well I need to say LoL, and also, DOH! While I love the idea of alternative energy vehicles, I see that there's a possibility of a Hydrogen fuel hub being built in my home town in 2 years time. Any existing ones are for privately owned commercial use.
Hmm, how about methane, he said? Ah, 'scuse me!
No. There, I saved you 30 minutes. 🥂
A great concept but this same River Simple vehicle has existed for at least 10 years now, funded by private investors
They don't seem to have any commercial awareness and are no further forward to actually selling these
Even the vehicle driven stated for research purposes
In short: No.
High Pete I’m a driver of an Ev and I do get what you say. But the elephant in the room is infrastructure or complete lack of it. It’s the chicken and egg situation. Without the fuel station you won’t sell a car without the car companies won’t set up fuel stations. This is the problem Toyota have with there hydrogen car. What is needed is a company like Tesla build the cars yes but put a infrastructure in place along side it. But if we are supposed to be moving to clean fuels then how hydrogen is made has to be bought into the equation. Using natural gas to produce it is not exactly clean. For commercial use definitely the way forward.
This is a very interesting look into hydrogen and how it can be used to power cars. Recharging is as fast as a fuel car 5 mins and can store much more energy than electric equivalent because the energy density is higher. You can also get existing fuel stations easily adapted for hydrogen than building rapid chargers. But also
The hydrogen fuel cells themselves are complex and not as efficient as ev. Still more efficient than petrol cars. Plus hyrogen is highly flammable but so is petrol. However it can leak more easily due to the high pressures needed to operate in the tank. Then extraction requires alot of electricity. I think the fuel cells are progressing and are very safe these days and if power was obtained sustainably it could make hydrogen out to be a real contendor. 🤔
So the greener way to make hydrogen is an electrolysis hydrogen generator with an efficiency rate of 70% which needs to be shipped to stations while heavily pressurised to fuel a hydrogen combustion engine with 25% efficiency.. using fuel cells to power an electric motor would increase the efficiency to 50% ..... OR WE COULD JUST USE THE ELECTRICITY TO POWER THE EV 😂... Hydrogen will never be the answer
This guy just lost all credibility
Myself and 2 son's have all clicked on 👍 for this comment, using our own YT accounts. Pedro in his wisdom has decided not to show the count, as in blocking!!!!! Can't take the criticism eh!
Well spotted! The bloke's been doing that for ages fella. Seems he only puts the niceties 👍 through
Sorry to disappoint but not true. Happy to generate debate and see positive and negative comments 🤷♂️
Nope. Not true 👎
@@PetrolPed Really,!!!! Lets just see who believes your last comment then. All they gotta do is hit ya 👍 Emoji
Those Riversimple chaps HAVE something there! That's the kind of car I want. It reminds me of my late, lamented CRX HF.
Looking at the Viritech's brilliant solutions, all I could see was our friend, Richard Morgan, putting this tech in HIS customers' cars someday in the future.
Mahalo for bringing a show full of hope and advancement in our future.
He who pays the piper....
Good for trucks. Units are too big for car production. . EVs are ok for shopping, anything doing distance needs to be ice or hybrid. Evolution will improve everything in its own time, stupid mandates will just kill industry.
In trucks this is something that really could be the solution because electric isn't anywhere near as good as this
Not good for anything.
ALL the science is against it.
Costs too much. Truck operators will always go for the cheapest option to stay competitive.
EVs are fine for long journeys. I regularly drive 400 miles in a day, and have absolutely no issues doing it in my comfortable, quiet, and efficient EV.
@johnnodge4327 but you have to rapid charge for 400 miles even if you leave home with 100% you must stop. I was talking to a mate of mine who drives an eqs 53 amg and he was telling me the battery is 108kw. And he was on a journey that was 450 miles and he ran it down to the point where he stopped at instavolt with only 4% left still with 160 miles to go after leaving home with 100%. Its a 108kw battery and he charged to 100% craming 100kw into the car for £85 pound. My diesel can do 50mpg on a run like that £60 wouldve been all he needed had he done the journey in my car. And that's not including how much it costed to get it 100% at home the night before so even more than 85 pounds really. And before you say he didn't need to go to 100% he was staying at a hotel that had no destination charging so he needed to go to 100% at the sevices because getting as much charge as possible for the trip home a day later another 450 miles back.
No.
Is this guy is funded by our tax money for something that seems to be talked about a lot but seems to go nowhere. Be nice to see results but closing hydrogen garages to fuel hydrogen vehicles etc is not a good sign of it working or viable for cars. My ignorance maybe.
Not your ignorance at all. It's simple mathematics.
H2 is expensive, and while fast to refill, doesn't have the same range as a modest EV. An EV is agnostic as to where the electricity comes from, hydrogen isn't, so you have to take your H2 car somewhere to fill it.
H2 works for large scale energy storage, but doesn't really work well enough for vehicles, so it hasn't taken on.
It's misdirection. As the Viritech MD said this is all for HGVs. Not cars.
@@johnnodge4327EV’s are fine if you have the ability to charge at home but if not then they’re just a pain in the backside. Electric cars are the future and will evolve but they shouldn’t be the only solution!
@@philhough3596 And as I've already pointed out in other posts, Hydrogen has such low energy density, it still makes no sense whatsoever.
What nonsense is this Ped?
Did you watch the whole film 🤷♂️
So the fuel cell converts hydrogen to electric to power a motor... Mmm. So you are adding more cost & complexity to a EV. No wonder it's a dead power source.
Did you actually watch the film ?
In a future world of alternative fuel forms hydrogen conversion it is not sustainable for use beyond specialist areas of transport needs. So, yes maybe for public transport systems around cities and towns and between towns. Farm vehicles. But General motor car use No.
Personally I expect in a few years the climate change hyperbole will tail off as people realise it’s over hyped. So I expect the focus will then change and we will have a wide range and a mix of energy sources including efficient IcE cars.
Amazing insight, could you post some data or links supporting your preposterous claim about climate change or is it just something you ‘believe’ in despite the overwhelming evidence that you’re wrong?
@ you need to your own research mate. When did science ever become binary?
@ I have, that’s why I commented
@ so when did it shift from postulations to QED?
@@teryd5672n Svante Arrhenius in 1896, where’s your evidence?
Interesting stuff but indicative to me of the shortcomings of hydrogen as a fuel source in most scenarios. It all seems to assume that battery technology has peaked in terms of energy density which it clearly hasn’t. The complexity of using renewable energy to create green hydrogen via electrolysis, store it, transport it and then combust it to drive electric motors has an almost Pythonesque level of ludicrousness to me. If a technology could be developed for shipping, where hydrogen could be split from sea water to provide motive power for very large container ships, all being processed onboard that would be something but I’ve been advised previously that’s not going to happen. It seems to me despite the FUD that we’re getting close to a tipping point towards BEVs and hydrogen is unlikely to be a viable solution.
I recall the boffins at Riversimple from a decade ago. They are challenging the modern paradigm of overly large, heavy and fast cars that has only become worse every year. The same applies to electric. The original BMW i3 and the Dacia Spring are closer to what electric cars should be but conspicuous consumption, conservatism and aggression wins. In Australia many average people think they need 3500kg towing. Why, because it's possible and they have deep pockets, or at least they did, so they bought the Taj Mahal of caravans. History has shown that we won't stop until we hit the hard bump stops of excess. I suspect Riversimple and others like Aptera will remain a novelty, examples of where we should be heading but aren't.
Thanks for this 👍
The.car looks great from the front but something from UFO from the rear , looking forward to updates
Why would anyone want to use electricity to make hydrogen from water, then store that hydrogen in pressurized containers, than buy thy hydrogen from a third party, when I can just put the original electricity in my car to run it far more efficiently?
So you didn’t actually watch the film then 🤷♂️🙄
We are going to need portable energy sources other than batteries for many applications - agriculture and long-haul aviation as obvious examples. In the latter we are about an order of magnitude short on current battery energy density and for the former we have a huge number of remote sites which, at harvest time need harvesters of 200kW continuous power and bigger to work the clock round for a matter of days and then require negligible power for the rest of the year. Maintaining thousands of high power chargers for a once in a year use is madness.
I found that one particularly interesting and liked the look of the Riversimple Raza.
Thanks 🙏🏻
So a lithium ion battery has a cycle life of 10'0000 cycles according to the riversimple expert, being 100'th of 1 million. How can this expert be correct when all the EVangelists say modern batteries hardly ever degrade. Of course my nearly 9 year old 30 kwhr battery would agree with the riversimple expert, having degraded by 42 % now with slightly more than 40 k miles on the odometer. Perhaps all the modern EV EVangelists who disagree with me on a regular basis could see major battery degradation in their EV's, when their EV's get oldish like my EV and degradation is not FUD after all ? No, can't be. Even the government backs EV's that have a very short lifespan as this expert suggests and therefore if he is right, will cause much more CO2 release in more regular production replacement, than a combustion engined car ?
EV batteries do lose capacity, but nothing as bad as the anti-EV FUD would have you believe
@sdk2006b So are you saying that my nearly 9 year old 30 kwhr, slightly more than 40k miles distance EV hasn't got 42% degradation and the loss of 5 out of 12 battery bars. Do you think I need reading spectacles next time I look at my dash board ?
@@FredFox-m9v- is that a Nissan Leaf?
If so - you know the batteries in these are not representative of those on all EV’s since 2018
@SDK2006b 30 kwhr leafs were obviously the worst degrading EV's of all and more modern battery temp control systems are better but they are still just lithium ion batteries. Modern EV's degrade. Battery life channel's ID3 degraded 10% in 2 years, when he had it and that was a modern EV. You can't change physics and people with modern EV's will find that out as they age. James Cooke on youtube battery bricked at nearly 8 years old and that was a state of the art model S. My next door neighbour is complaining about his range, and that car was about 70k new and that age car are being bought back in the USA by Jaguar because of fires, look it up.
@@FredFox-m9v- my 3 year old Polestar 2 (36k miles) range was still the same when I gave it back.
My 10 kWh home storage battery is 3 years old - charged every day from 0% to 98% and it’s still 100% battery health.
Guaranteed to 80% after 10 years.
I agree we'll need some sort of "fueled" vehicle along with the pure EV, and I believe hydrogen will be a part but I question just how much hydrogen will fill the fueled section of the pie chart. The negative payback of cracking water into hydrogen is a huge cost. Cracking from natural gas defeats the purpose. Then there's the lack of fueling infrastructure. At least electricity is virtually everywhere so charging stations just need built. Hydrogen? Not so much. There's also the problem with hydrogen leaks. Ask NASA. Hydrogen is the smallest molecule and when storing it under pressure it's very difficult to keep connections leak free.
An alternative fuel I hear Toyota is researching is ammonia and burning it in a free piston engine linear generator. I find this interesting...
Another delusional youtuber. Research the supply chain for hydrogen from creation to delivery and you'll find it's not practical except for very niche transport applications. The amount of electricity you'll use to create green hydrogen to drive a fuel cell car 100 miles, you could have driven an EV 300 miles. Hydrogen is marginally more efficient than petrol/diesel.
No delusion here my friend. Just an open mind. You should try it 🙄
@@PetrolPed i was of the mind once that hydrogen was a possibility a while ago until i looked into the supply chain and all the problems with it and the poor efficiency of the end product. You should try researching it. Its a "fuel for the future" and will always be in the future because you'll never make enough of it for anything but niche areas. Look for stuff by hydrogen experts that are NOT part of the fossil industry. (e.g. Prof David Ceban, Michael Liebreich, Paul Martin)
So we use electricity to produce hydrogen, so we can then turn it back into electricity using a fuel cell, and the energy loss is being overlooked.
Unless there is an excess of electricity on the grid, it could be a way of storing it, but batteries are better suited and far more efficient.
And here we have some delicious food for the algorithm ;-)
Yummy 🤤
I am all behind hydrogen fuel celled vehicles. It must become about the environment and not the cost to produce hydrogen or we all slip over the edge of permanent climate catastrophe. The big picture must become a more widespread vision for humanity. The days of NIMBY have to end.
If vehicle manufacturers start making hydrogen vehicles you can be damn sure fuel stations will sprout up like weeds as big oil see's where the wind is blowing.
Hi Ped, the first company, RiverSimple has some really interesting technology, the in-hub motor and brake system makes sense to me, as it removes drive shafts and the need for a differential. The super capacitor technology is also a potentially useful technology. As to the hydrogen side? I think this is a complete dead end, sorry, but I’m 60YO and the hydrogen debate has been around my entire life, it is very complicated to use as a fuel for a whole host of reasons that are based in fundamental physics and highly unlikely to change.
Peter…clearly you are speaking to a passionate and visionary man BUT I just cannot see that hydrogen will be able to turn the EV tide because rightly or wrongly, the Western World has decided that is the way forward…of course it has many flaws and solves nothing. Hydrogen?….as a practical power source, has decades to catch up. I see it as a certain choice for heavy engineering and fixed power units but Fred driving has XYZ Super to work in 2045 will be battling many problems by then. The World has to face up to the fact that there are too many people and population is now completely out of control. What car we drive and what powers it is academic…how we will live on this Earth with so many human beings is the real problem that is going to be a painful thing to solve.🤔🤔
Hydrogen may have a role in road transport but the infrastructure necessary to play a significant vehicle role is doubtful. It’s difficult enough setting up infrastructure for EV’s and electrical networking is everywhere. It’s a bit like LPG which sort of fizzled. ICE and EV’s will power most vehicles and as more EV’s are purchased it’ll impact negatively on the price of fuels for ICE vehicles. Non home charging for EV’s has to improve considerably such as covered charging stations and with battery charging technology improving charging times are coming down. It’s early days for EV’s but ICE vehicles will remain for a long, long time as their towing ability over long distances is unmatched.
Hydrogen... no... but interesting engineering that may evolve some pure EVs.
Trucks maybe, some small part, else BS.
Hi Peds
Hydrogen was, is the replacement required. But both car manufacturers and especially governments tossed it aside because it would be cheaper than fossil fuels and electric. Its not that it can't be done... Its once again the greed of manufacturing and taxes.
Most of the manufacturers tossed it aside because it's a REALLY dumb idea for road transport. The governments don't care, they are just driving for zero CO2 which given ninety odd percent of hydrogen is extracted from fossil fuel, this technology will not do. Sure you can make it work in a zero CO2 way but it uses stupid amounts of electrical energy to make a little bit of hydrogen that it's not practical or cost effective and could never be cheaper than BEV.
Very interesting video Pedro. Thought provoking and a subject that will cause much debate. I guess we are at the point with Hydrogen similar to where we were with EV 10-15 years ago. It will be interesting to see how the technology develops driving down cost. I have to admit I'll need to watch this video again to fully get my head around it... Hydrogen really is re-writing the book when it comes to motoring. Oh and I like the production of the video. Very professional.
Going forward it won't be one fuel that powers cars, we are only used to petrol or diesel, we will be buying cars for our own needs, electric hydrogen, HVO will all play there part.
Thank goodness an alternative fuel is being explored. I am utterly sick of ev being rammed down our throats and have stopped watching your ev stuff sadly
it's viritech, not viratech
EV is not the way. Its a way of the government to restrict the ordinary person from driving, by telling us all what we can drive and when we drive! Its all about suppression!
I like what this channel is about, but this episode is nonsense, as is the notion of using hydrogen for cars! Hydrogen is just an energy carrier, yes it works as a means of powering propulsion, the argument falls apart when you look at the cost of its production.
Obviously people have some strong opinions on the subject of hydrogen as a fuel source. That aside you produced a very informative video which I enjoyed. Your presenting style is easy to follow and professional. Nice to see the R & D from UK start ups and companies. Whether hydrogen makes it or not I agree we need a mix of propulsion systems for all forms of transport.
Thank you!
Another great video and very informative. I have to admit I knew very little about hydrogen vehicles but I now feel alot more informed.
I have a lot of love for Riversimple after watching this.
Glad it was helpful!
All he needs to do is take out the hydrogen tank and but in a battery so you can charge at home
What does Ed Milliband think i value his opinion 🤔…im joking im joking 😂…what i can tell you is construction cannot operate using electricity absolutely impossible…
Great content, as always! I have a quick question: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How can I transfer them to Binance?
Nice video, different
Thanks!
As you have often said Pete, there needs to be a broader approach to our motoring future and clearly hydrogen should be one of the answers. The River Simple approach is a prime example where they are making a simple eco friendly ‘ town car’ that makes perfect sense as an individual transport option. The sad fact is that our current crop of politicians seem to be blinkered and are throwing everything down the rabbit hole of BEV!
Take the river simple then... would you "lease" one? Have you looked at the cost? And how you refill it? If not you, your friends and family, would you recommend it to them? Didn't think so. Just like the Toyota Mirai, it's too expensive, and too inconvent to fill up.
👍
Hello Ped This is very interesting it great to learn something new I have a question why have drum brakes? Not disc brakes surly be better why is he talking about Miles It sound why not just pay road tax 1 yearly like we do normal? Very interesting at the Start about hydrogen and the different applications. Great video Thank you so much
'MUST'
This was very interesting to me,but the problem is the government and their lack interest,a long time ago I had a mg ztt V6 190 bhp,I loved the car and it ran on LPG,it was clean and cheap to run,but the government had no interest in promoting it IE not enough money in it for them,the way I know this is I know someone who ran a gas company and tried like he'll to promote it,I'm afraid it's what where up against,
Awesome to see this finally live on the channel!
It sure is 👍
The fact that there is research into alternatives is good, no?
Really great content Ped! Hugo is as smooth as.
Thanks 🙏🏻
Great video PP very interesting
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Supercapacitors are the forgotten technology and very useful supplement for power source…but still need to be part of a number of routes to solve the energy issue. A very instructive episode,thanks 🎉
Wow this guy is amazing, why is that not the norm
Very interesting Pete, thanks
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Very interesting episode Pete! 😀
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Fascinating!
Thanks 🙏🏻
Absolutely loved this one! This felt ready for TV in my view.
Thank Chap 👍