With tsun zu happened the same to me. Early on I thought that he was a worse Cesar, but nowadays I consider him a very solid pick and can be game changing for the guy that is not set up for medieval army and just can keep up military
I like ashoka. That's probably, because I like to be pretty flexible and not plan too much ahead of time (not because I'm stupid, I just don't want to place it all on one "card" and get fcked by an event). In conclusion passive leaders are pog
Very interesting as usual. I am only just getting into online play in the last few weeks so still learning the ways of playing against humans. I have to admit that in my many games against AI opponents past Acropolis is probably my favourite wonder! I do find myself not being able to find the science for government change sometimes so I love that bonus, as well as the extra urban building slot that I often find I want. And an early extra strength is nice when strength numbers are usually very low anyway. High strength and wars are less common vs AI though than humans so I can easily see these bonuses diminish fast in those type of games where you don't build many urban buildings and 1 strength is nothing. I also really like Hippocrates still, partly just because he's simple! You know exactly what to do with him, and how much worse he is if you take him after the initial round. Sometimes I take a leader then never really get much out of them, but at least Hippocrates I know just keep him 2 or 3 turns, irrespective of my strategy, and then replace him. Never really been that enthusiastic about Sun Tzu since you don't get long, if at all, with the tactic to yourself before everyone gets it. Cleopatra I've rarely tried so should do so more often to see how she does. I think I only ever played Confucius once (I have all leaders achievement so I must have!), but I just don't like cards that either give bonuses to other players too or usually ones that are bad for all players (e.g. events like Pestilence. Rats/Dark Ages I can work around better of course).
I really excited about Tier List about Leaders and Wonders.I guess the tier is only used for 2 players game. Personally in 4 players game I suggested that a bit change about the tier list: +LEADERS : - First, no leader is in S-tier. Age A Leader maybe doesn't change so much a whole game so sometimes you don't have to pick a leader from age A to win the game -Hammurabi is countered by Caesar, Alexander, and maybe Sun Tzu and if you don't draw a lot of cards, you don't have nothing to defend so I put him in A-tier. And Caesar go up to B-tier. -Boudica is also interesting leader. In 4 players game she can choose quiet a lot, just because it is not so hard to be 2 of the strongest. I give her A-tier -The combo Sun Tzu and Zizka is S++ tier if you have the right tactics, like no way you can really do expect taking Zizka from Sun Tzu player +Wonders: -Personally, i think roman roads is the best wonder in age A. It give a free population( 1 pop in early game in early game is really helpful), ages 1 give you 1 more resource production, you don't have to build iron anymore. It give you what you need in each age.So strong! S+ tier -Colussus is really strong too. In early game, it is important to keep up that you are the 2 strongest, so it is easier for you to control the game.I will put it in A-tier. -Colusseum: I don't know why you put it in A-tier.For me this wonder is not so interesting. It is not flexible, happy face can be solve by free temple in the event, and military action doesn't helpful for early game. I just give it C-tier
Great Input, thanks for sharing.With the Card Reviews I did not use the Range of ratings correctly, so i set myself the challenge to always use all the Tiers. If you want you can make your own Tier List and share them with others. You should be able to just use the link: tiermaker.com/create/through-the-ages-age-a-363569 Please let me know if it works.
One gotcha with this kind of analysis is some leaders are very position/player count dependent. Boudica as first player in 4 player game is much different to boudica as third player in 3 player game, for example. Confucius also seems much better in 2 player than 4 player games.
Yea and this is gonna get harder and harder as the Ages progress. But I will try to go into some more detail for different player counts in the next Videos.
@@DJParson Yeah at some point it's going to be 'Well Einstein/Meier are good if you have computers and don't need anything but culture. Churchill is good if you need to build up military, whether to pressure or to defend, though sometimes none of the other leaders available will match your civilisation and you'll take him for just the 3 culture.' so basically 'X is good if it's good for your civ' :P Maybe Age 2/3 analysis should be centered more about which leaders you want to adjust your earlier gameplay to prepare for. (like Bach/Dietrich, or Coubertin)
I mostly agree with this one, but two changes I'd make: Move Aristotle to A tier, Aristotle + Library is still a strong combo, even with Dark Ages. Move Acropolis to C tier, I think it's slightly better than Stonehenge.
Great video, thanks DJ! As others have mentioned can't wait to hear new tiers for the rest of the ages. Also, would like to hear your opinion on how the ratings change for different player counts since as some have mentioned, leaders such as Boudica can have a dramatic change in power depending on player number and order. Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback! I wanted to discuss different player count a little bit more but tbh I simply forgot it at the end. But I will definitely go into more detail regarding that in the coming Videos.
I made Moses work in one game with monarchy and Zizca. Funny enough I ended age I with 3 farms, 4 mines and 3 labs. I don't like him either but he might work as a few turns leader in order to transition towards a military leader of age I
I think Moses requires you to adjust your game plan quite heavily and then he doesn't really give you a lot of benefits. But yea, occasionally you see players make him work.
Thanks! Yes, I definitely want to make some more strategy videos. After all Tier Lists I will probably try to give some fundamental strategy tips and tricks. Greatest Combos also sound really interesting.
@@DJParson That would be great. I would love seeing those. These videos are really helpful. I'm currently at level 33 and being exposed to the thinking of a level 43 right? helps me break that barrier
I agree with most of the rankings. I'd put Confucius 2-tier higher if he is in a peaceful environment. If there is Caesar who is suspiciously trying to fill the deck with bad events I won't take Confucius; I don't want to accelerate Age 1 deck. I'd put Hammurabi, Sun Tzu, Cleopatra in the same tier (top tier); I think they all equally good.
@@DJParson I like playing aggression card as an event. It's the way to monetize unused cards into science. Giving 1 sci to everyone else is debatable, but I don't mind. Gaining one more sci, having more knowledge about what's in the deck, and getting rid of one potential aggression card out of the system, is more valuable for me.
Hanging gardens feels terrible for me. I think it should auto pop you ( even that could have its disadvantages) and maybe will be balanced. Imo it makes you really hard to pick up an age I wonder or makes you sacrifice you develop for just a few happy faces that you don't need and is very weak against ravage of time
The problem I see with Cesar is that sometimes he is amazing, you set up the events deck in the perfect way for your build and draw a nice tactic, but then you have those where you draw nothing that fits you and feel completely useless
Thankyou for that awesome video! It gave me same interersting views in some leaders and wonders, wich I rated personally a little different. It´s in the nature of the game(and what makes the game so interesting!!!) that different players rate cards differntly. But sharing your thoughts to that tierlist is so helpful! I would like to know: In a 3 or 4 player game: Would you think, that colosseum and pyramids are in the same Tier as in this list? I would swap them. Because the CA might be more important to grap yellow cards, which are in 2 player games always availlable. And in 3 or 4 Player games, it´s easier to be not the weakest. What do you think?
You are very welcome! Yea, i think Colossus would also not be this high in a 3-4 player List. It´s really hard to tell with Pyramids. I already had a very hard time putting it in B tier and not A tier for this list. But then the A Tier would be too full I think. I am not totally sure on this but I think I might not like Roman Roads as much in 3-4 Player games because you get more ressouces from Developements and so the lower cost but more steps of the Roman Roads might be worse. But Colosseum can also be really underwhelming in 3-4 Player games, so i guess I am really undecided with those three wonders :D
Thanks for the vid!I am still a bit of a noob, but I would have rated stock pile and patriotism lower than fruglity. They have frustrated games for me -- frugality never has.
You are very welcome. It is perfectly reasonable to rate Patriotism and StockPile lower than Frugality. They are all very low value cards but at least with Frugality you only have to pay one civil action and not two. So I might agree with your assessment now and rate them differently. But, as always, it might depend on the leader and wonder you have (Hammurabi and Pyramids with extra CA for example)
Well, Hammurabi costs you Military Actions. Often you don't need those in the early game, but as 4th player you are always a little bit behind with Military and Military Cards, so drawing less Cards because of Hammurabi can mean that other players will play agressions on you.
Many thanks! I prefer this format over the previous rating with numbers. your explanations are really insightful!
With tsun zu happened the same to me. Early on I thought that he was a worse Cesar, but nowadays I consider him a very solid pick and can be game changing for the guy that is not set up for medieval army and just can keep up military
This is great! Can’t wait for the rest of the ages
I like ashoka. That's probably, because I like to be pretty flexible and not plan too much ahead of time (not because I'm stupid, I just don't want to place it all on one "card" and get fcked by an event). In conclusion passive leaders are pog
Very interesting as usual. I am only just getting into online play in the last few weeks so still learning the ways of playing against humans. I have to admit that in my many games against AI opponents past Acropolis is probably my favourite wonder! I do find myself not being able to find the science for government change sometimes so I love that bonus, as well as the extra urban building slot that I often find I want. And an early extra strength is nice when strength numbers are usually very low anyway. High strength and wars are less common vs AI though than humans so I can easily see these bonuses diminish fast in those type of games where you don't build many urban buildings and 1 strength is nothing.
I also really like Hippocrates still, partly just because he's simple! You know exactly what to do with him, and how much worse he is if you take him after the initial round. Sometimes I take a leader then never really get much out of them, but at least Hippocrates I know just keep him 2 or 3 turns, irrespective of my strategy, and then replace him. Never really been that enthusiastic about Sun Tzu since you don't get long, if at all, with the tactic to yourself before everyone gets it. Cleopatra I've rarely tried so should do so more often to see how she does. I think I only ever played Confucius once (I have all leaders achievement so I must have!), but I just don't like cards that either give bonuses to other players too or usually ones that are bad for all players (e.g. events like Pestilence. Rats/Dark Ages I can work around better of course).
Very good video, thanks for making it @DJParson. Looking forward to the Age I-III videos.
I really excited about Tier List about Leaders and Wonders.I guess the tier is only used for 2 players game. Personally in 4 players game I suggested that a bit change about the tier list:
+LEADERS :
- First, no leader is in S-tier. Age A Leader maybe doesn't change so much a whole game so sometimes you don't have to pick a leader from age A to win the game
-Hammurabi is countered by Caesar, Alexander, and maybe Sun Tzu and if you don't draw a lot of cards, you don't have nothing to defend so I put him in A-tier. And Caesar go up to B-tier.
-Boudica is also interesting leader. In 4 players game she can choose quiet a lot, just because it is not so hard to be 2 of the strongest. I give her A-tier
-The combo Sun Tzu and Zizka is S++ tier if you have the right tactics, like no way you can really do expect taking Zizka from Sun Tzu player
+Wonders:
-Personally, i think roman roads is the best wonder in age A. It give a free population( 1 pop in early game in early game is really helpful), ages 1 give you 1 more resource production, you don't have to build iron anymore. It give you what you need in each age.So strong! S+ tier
-Colussus is really strong too. In early game, it is important to keep up that you are the 2 strongest, so it is easier for you to control the game.I will put it in A-tier.
-Colusseum: I don't know why you put it in A-tier.For me this wonder is not so interesting. It is not flexible, happy face can be solve by free temple in the event, and military action doesn't helpful for early game. I just give it C-tier
Great Input, thanks for sharing.With the Card Reviews I did not use the Range of ratings correctly, so i set myself the challenge to always use all the Tiers.
If you want you can make your own Tier List and share them with others. You should be able to just use the link: tiermaker.com/create/through-the-ages-age-a-363569
Please let me know if it works.
@@DJParson i have created my own Tier list. It works, but I can't share it in Facebook or UA-cam
Awesome, I can see it on the website!
@@DJParson i am looking forward to building age 1 2 3 Leaders and Wonders tier list. I am so excited
One gotcha with this kind of analysis is some leaders are very position/player count dependent. Boudica as first player in 4 player game is much different to boudica as third player in 3 player game, for example. Confucius also seems much better in 2 player than 4 player games.
Yea and this is gonna get harder and harder as the Ages progress. But I will try to go into some more detail for different player counts in the next Videos.
@@DJParson Yeah at some point it's going to be 'Well Einstein/Meier are good if you have computers and don't need anything but culture. Churchill is good if you need to build up military, whether to pressure or to defend, though sometimes none of the other leaders available will match your civilisation and you'll take him for just the 3 culture.' so basically 'X is good if it's good for your civ' :P
Maybe Age 2/3 analysis should be centered more about which leaders you want to adjust your earlier gameplay to prepare for. (like Bach/Dietrich, or Coubertin)
Ha, ha! Your tier list is almost exactly opposite of what I would have done!
I mostly agree with this one, but two changes I'd make:
Move Aristotle to A tier, Aristotle + Library is still a strong combo, even with Dark Ages.
Move Acropolis to C tier, I think it's slightly better than Stonehenge.
Aristotle has always been a leader I value lower than others, so it might just come down to playstyle or I am mistaken on him :D
Great video, thanks DJ! As others have mentioned can't wait to hear new tiers for the rest of the ages. Also, would like to hear your opinion on how the ratings change for different player counts since as some have mentioned, leaders such as Boudica can have a dramatic change in power depending on player number and order. Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback! I wanted to discuss different player count a little bit more but tbh I simply forgot it at the end. But I will definitely go into more detail regarding that in the coming Videos.
Ok, have listened to the full vid now. Great content! Many thx!
I made Moses work in one game with monarchy and Zizca. Funny enough I ended age I with 3 farms, 4 mines and 3 labs. I don't like him either but he might work as a few turns leader in order to transition towards a military leader of age I
I think Moses requires you to adjust your game plan quite heavily and then he doesn't really give you a lot of benefits. But yea, occasionally you see players make him work.
Awesome video again. Would you consider making some strategy videos? Like greatest combos or what do you focus on in different ages and so on.
TTA Pulse also offers strategy videos. We've just posted our first, "Through the Ages with Zero Science," at ttapulse.com
Thanks! Yes, I definitely want to make some more strategy videos. After all Tier Lists I will probably try to give some fundamental strategy tips and tricks. Greatest Combos also sound really interesting.
@@DJParson That would be great. I would love seeing those. These videos are really helpful. I'm currently at level 33 and being exposed to the thinking of a level 43 right? helps me break that barrier
I agree with most of the rankings. I'd put Confucius 2-tier higher if he is in a peaceful environment. If there is Caesar who is suspiciously trying to fill the deck with bad events I won't take Confucius; I don't want to accelerate Age 1 deck. I'd put Hammurabi, Sun Tzu, Cleopatra in the same tier (top tier); I think they all equally good.
I think Confucius just doesn´t fit my playstyle. I don´t want to be forced into playing Events to get the bonus from my leader.
@@DJParson I like playing aggression card as an event. It's the way to monetize unused cards into science. Giving 1 sci to everyone else is debatable, but I don't mind. Gaining one more sci, having more knowledge about what's in the deck, and getting rid of one potential aggression card out of the system, is more valuable for me.
I have always thought Pat A as a trash card. You have to pay 2CA for one rock and an extra MA. At least with Frugality A it's only one action.
Frugality a is definitely better than pat a. In most cases it is also better than stockpile
Hanging gardens feels terrible for me. I think it should auto pop you ( even that could have its disadvantages) and maybe will be balanced. Imo it makes you really hard to pick up an age I wonder or makes you sacrifice you develop for just a few happy faces that you don't need and is very weak against ravage of time
I like your idea. Instead of 2 food, it could be, "Gain 1 Population."
I don't know if we are going to see any more card balances, but Hanging Gardens would definitely be one of my top picks for a buff.
Lol moses is really good. At least an 8. Normally you get 3 population before you 0 out on food . With moses you have 6 ! He's insane.
The problem I see with Cesar is that sometimes he is amazing, you set up the events deck in the perfect way for your build and draw a nice tactic, but then you have those where you draw nothing that fits you and feel completely useless
Thankyou for that awesome video! It gave me same interersting views in some leaders and wonders, wich I rated personally a little different.
It´s in the nature of the game(and what makes the game so interesting!!!) that different players rate cards differntly. But sharing your thoughts to that tierlist is so helpful!
I would like to know: In a 3 or 4 player game: Would you think, that colosseum and pyramids are in the same Tier as in this list? I would swap them.
Because the CA might be more important to grap yellow cards, which are in 2 player games always availlable. And in 3 or 4 Player games, it´s easier to be not the weakest. What do you think?
You are very welcome!
Yea, i think Colossus would also not be this high in a 3-4 player List. It´s really hard to tell with Pyramids. I already had a very hard time putting it in B tier and not A tier for this list. But then the A Tier would be too full I think.
I am not totally sure on this but I think I might not like Roman Roads as much in 3-4 Player games because you get more ressouces from Developements and so the lower cost but more steps of the Roman Roads might be worse. But Colosseum can also be really underwhelming in 3-4 Player games, so i guess I am really undecided with those three wonders :D
Thanks for the vid!I am still a bit of a noob, but I would have rated stock pile and patriotism lower than fruglity. They have frustrated games for me -- frugality never has.
You are very welcome. It is perfectly reasonable to rate Patriotism and StockPile lower than Frugality. They are all very low value cards but at least with Frugality you only have to pay one civil action and not two. So I might agree with your assessment now and rate them differently. But, as always, it might depend on the leader and wonder you have (Hammurabi and Pyramids with extra CA for example)
@@DJParson Great points! I am learning a lot from you. :)
Great video!! We want more eras!! 😄
Haha, thanks. Don't worry, they will be coming soon :)
what's the downside you talk about being 4th player with hamurabi?
Well, Hammurabi costs you Military Actions. Often you don't need those in the early game, but as 4th player you are always a little bit behind with Military and Military Cards, so drawing less Cards because of Hammurabi can mean that other players will play agressions on you.
Hanging garden and acropolis is B tier 100% and colosus and roman roada are d tier..