3 Simple Explanations for the Skin of Blackness in the Book of Mormon
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- Опубліковано 17 лют 2024
- Is the Book of Mormon racist? It is easy-even natural-for modern readers of the Book of Mormon to intuitively see contemporary sensibilities regarding race and skin color in passages about a “skin of blackness” or “dark skins,” but such interpretations are misplaced when reading an ancient text. In recent years, several theories have given possible explanations of the nature of this artificial mark.
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Great video. As an African American, I have never seen these passages as racial. I have always seen them as a state or level of spirituality.
Yep! Again, God is NOT a Respecter or Men…it has to be in a spiritual sense🤷🏾♀️I’m only cursed based on me not following Father’s ways.
Sister, we need your testimony, as so many of our African-American brothers and sisters, and others, struggle with this! Grateful to hear that you have overcome this stumbling block. Stay strong, and God bless you.
Let's look at ot from Lanen and Lemles points of view. The much younger brother uses a tazer on me . Made me make a boat if I didn't I got shocked . Then he made me get on the boat and travel to a new land . We could have all went are separate ways . Then when we got to the new lands Nephi tried to take readership. And Nephis God cursed our wife's to be ugly instead of changing his people he cursed ours . How nice . And Nephi split the people when we wouldn't let him be leader snuck off made his own kingdom. Curse my wife's and children you get genosided
Lamen sorry the spell corect dosnt like the names
Same here. That is what I have always read and thought.
What a beautiful tribute to the facts of ancient scripture I think sometimes we interpret the writing of ancient scripture whether it be the book of Mormon, or the writing of Paul in the New Testament, etc. from end of current day, instead of when it was written.
TOTALLY true …it is called presentism when We insist ancient people think and have meanings etc exactly like Us in 2024 .
why say "interpreting"
it's the words plainly written my friend
it's not unclear its very plainly written 😞
So you’re admitting that Jo and the other leaders were just men of their day, not speaking for loving God who transcends time? When y’all LOVE to use the term “presentism” it actually harms your case much more than it helps it.
@@danielclingen34 You are ridiculous and obviously looking to put down the Prophet and the Book of Mormon . Move along , I am NOT your huckleberry
@tomasina10 it is not presentism. there have been plenty of people from when Joseph wrote the racism into his book in 1830s that condemned racism. There were many people in 1979, who condemned the racism of the Mormon church, and there were many many many people in between those years that condemned the racism that the Mormon church pushed. It also doesn’t make sense for you to be using the “men of their day” argument when the entire basis of your church is its claim that it doesn’t serve the culture, but serves God and supposedly has a “prophet” that speaks for God, yet your “prophets” pushed racism for decades instead of opposing the racism. Your church even banned interracial marriage until 2013.
I always feel bad for Nephi. He just breaths and his brothers want to kill him. Poor dude!
…he always had God backing him. I feel bad that his descendants let him down. 😔
Oh, I agree with you!
It's ok he wasn't real.
@@captainmerca341 🤣🤣🤣
One issue I have with this new interpretation is that members of the church, including the leaders, interpreted these passages literally for decades. Did those leaders, including apostles, interpret this incorrectly? This feels like an apologetic reinterpretation. I'm not saying what it should be, because viewing it as non-racial is definitely a nicer interpretation, but I'm saying how it had been viewed for the majority of the history of the church. I can find general conference talks to support this.
If it wasn’t about race then why couldn’t Black folks hold the priesthood or enter the temple until 1978? If the prophets communicate God’s will, why was there ever any misinterpretation with regard to the idea of black skin being interpreted as race?
I’ve seen folks in these comments cite modern dictionary definitions of the word “white.” Since the BOM was translated from an ancient language into English that was useful for folks to understand in the mid 19th century and today, perhaps a better definition to cite would be a mid 19th century definition of the words “skin” and “blackness.” Clearly, BY and his successors had a specific understanding of what the words meant given the policies that he enacted that were kept in place for over 100 years.
Or it really could mean darker colored skin, since the scriptures say it was to help prevent the Nephites from co-mingling with the Lamanites, who were the same race, by the way, but tended towards spiritual darkness at that time. We need to be careful not to over-apply the disingenuous hyper sensitive political correctness of our day to things in the past that we really have little knowledge and/or context for. Kind of like polygamy, or only the Levites holding the Levitical priesthood, or the firstborn getting a double inheritance, or the Israelites snubbing the Samaritans, or Christ only preaching to Israelites and not gentiles, etc., etc.
Take a look at my response. We're on the same page.
Well said.
Amen!!!
Political correctness? Does that mean you believe the the ban on black people was of god too?
So you think they turned black like sub Saharan Africans in the blink of an eye??? I don’t think so. Makes more sense it being spiritual thing.
Exactly
There is ONLY ONE EXPLANATION---DARK SKIN. DONT WHITEWASH IT---to make it sound "oK"
the passage in 2Nephi 5 cannot be racial because Laman, Lemual , Sam,& Nephi are of the same family!!
Yes and then they were divided and God made the Laminates ugly so that the Nephites would never want to mix with the Lamanites, and if they did they would receive the same mark. I find this video kinda stupid and politically correct. Just read the Book of Mormon and it clearly says what it says and it makes sense.
Like this lady said in the video, your skin doesn’t become black if you are white and vice versa. It’s just scientifically impossible.
@@PastGenspeople that are critical of the scriptures either or non-believers without a testimony. They will most probably run back into the dark and the fog pray for them and let the Lord deal with them. I'm sure if it snowed black snow they would still have the same attitude. I think the good people and the Christians need to grow a thick skin. This way the fiery darts don't penetrate. You ever hear of the word, ignore people that call you names. A word cannot hurt you if you do not hear it.
It explicitly says God cursed them by turning their skin dark, your leaders have reiterated that over and over. Y’all just run from that in the last couple decades because it looks awful, opposit of Christ commanding love. Look at your preisthood ban, you aren’t fooling anyone.
INSANE. IT MEANS SKIN---NOT SOME MENTAL GYMNASTIC ridiculous attempt to make it OK---absolutely embarrassing. Why the ban? Why did president kimball say "see their skin is lightening"----he didn't say tattoos, or body paint, or anything else.
If modern day prophets job is to decipher scripture, and generations of them quite literally taught that the skin of blackness was indeed skin color… in fact Elder Kimball went so far as to say Native American children in Mormon homes had a noticeable change in their skin color… why should we assume that skin of blackness is anything but what prophets taught?
Well if some prophets say one thing, and some prophets say another, how do you assess who is correct?
Through careful study, and comparing both statements to the other scriptures we have. Which is what this video does.
@@jaybravo2199 "How would you define a false prophet?"
The topical guide is useful for this - some scriptural references for "false prophet" are:
prophet, which shall presume to speak a word … which I have not commanded, Deut. 18:20.
prophet that teacheth lies, Isa. 9:15.
prophets prophesy falsely, Jer. 5:31 (14:14).
Those seem to be good enough. The question then becomes, does this mean that a Prophet speaks only the words God commands? Thus they don't have any agency, and are infallible? If a prophet or Apostle teaches something incorrect, does that disqualify them from being a Prophet and Apostle? If so, it would seem that many Prophets of scripture sin, and some even fall from grace for a time (see Jonah, Moses, Peter, etc). As such, what is too much? And who determines when that threshold has been hit? And if a Prophet cannot prophesy falsely, does that mean each Prophecy is given him in vision directly from God? Or can He feel inspired to prophesy based on the Spirit of God in him? And at these times, does the Spirit of God burn away fallibility and imperfect communication, or is it God inspiring and speaking through a mortal and fallible man, fallibilities included?
If you have answers to these complex questions, I'm all ears!
"we are forced to accept two possible scenarios:"
Proceeds to present a false dichotomy
@@JJPrizeDistributionComitteeLol, your right, it has literally been black and white, and no one for two full centuries ever disagreed about this subject. Everyone was always in lock step, and they all taught it without reservation over the pulpit regularly. XD
Even at age 11 I knew, from what my Indian Placement Program sister told me, that with us they spent FAR more time inside, and in NorCal, not Arizona. I can also tell you her face, arms and legs became much closer to her un-tanned skin color-which wasn’t all that much darker than mine, just a different undertone.
Even if the main intent of the BoM wording is spiritual, Lamanites hanging out outdoors much of the day in a large swath of North & South America would be far more than if they were “an idle people”.
@@wylldflower5628 so… the curse could be lifted with… sun block?
Are farmers and ranchers cursed as well?
It doesn’t matter if their skin was dark or not. People need to stop pitting people against each other. This wasn’t racism if their skins were dark. It was God that did it, and he did it as a reminder for them and everyone to remember to be obedient, the same as he divided the languages of those at the Tower of Babel. We need to just remember to keep the commandments and stop judging others. Let God be the judge.
fetch for real
He didn’t make anyone’s skin any color for a reminder! Why can’t you accept that He made different skin colors simply because He wanted to?
@@Dnell-tb1ydBecause that runs contrary to every LDS doctrinal authority on this matter until very recently (like the last 5-10 years).
Do some research there was no tower of babel---it was impossible. The book is not historical Even the so called only true church is now admitting that.
Alma chapter 3 talks again of the skin of blackness in a very literal sense. It is what it is.
I appreciate the work that has gone into helping us understand the meaning of "skin of blackness". Thank you to the scholars and the team from Scripture Central for the hard work, the research and critique in breaking down all avenues to this meaning!
Nephi made it clear. His brothers weren't considered to have black skin when they tried to kill him multiple times before they landed in the new World. It's only after Leo dies that they receive the black skin. Wonder why that is, if their hearts had not changed why were they not called black skin before?
This isn’t hard work, she is simply being dishonest. Your scriptures very clearly say skin of blackness, that is explicitly clear, and what it means. Not only is the Texas self clear, but your leaders again, and again, and again for 150 years said that it was about skin and forbid block people from having the priesthood from entering the temple and from entering your celestial kingdom. They are just trying to walk that back now because they realize that it is terrible PR. I find it extremely interesting that your church claims to have prophets speaking for God and yet when the rest of the nation put forward civil rights in the 1960s, your church waited until 1979 to lift the priesthood and temple bans and forbid interracial marriage until 2013.
Thank you! We’ve got some amazing researchers helping us.
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
Original 1830 Text (2 Nephi 12, p. 117):
“…and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.”
Later, Altered Text (2 Nephi 30:6, 1840 edition)
“…and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white pure and a delightsome people.”
Still Later, Altered Text (2 Nephi 30:6, editions until 1981):
“…white and delightsome…”
Even Later, Altered Text (2 Nephi 30:6, editions until 1981):
“…pure and delightsome…”
Before 1978, dark-skinned males were not allowed to hold positions of priesthood authority within the Mormon Church. Today Mormon scriptures continue to teach dark skin is a curse from God and a sign of His displeasure (See 1 Nephi 12:23; 2 Nephi 5:21; Alma 3:6). Brigham Young, second president and prophet of the LDS church referred to those with dark skin as being “cursed with a s(k)in of blackness” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 272). The Church appears to be struggling with its early statements about people with dark skin. Rather than allow the Book of Mormon to speak for itself, they have altered it to minimize the impact of early Church doctrine.
Just my opinion, i think it refers to aura not necessarily literal skin color. Again you are right , one cannot take 21st century lense to understand ancient scriptures.
Right, I've heard "countenance" used to describe it too.
Yes! I have absolutely seen a 'white' person, and thought I was looking at something dark. While having also looked at someone 'black' and totally leaving feeling I had seen someone white. It is not often, but when it happens, it's very funny to look back on.
I believe Nephi was referencing a spiritual state when he was talking about this but as an African American, I if i had to come into this live all over again , i wouldn't choose to be any other race, Afircan American people age wonderfully and gracefully and because of the amount of Melanin in Afircan americans people skin, they typically dont have to be concerned about stuff like sunburn and skin cancers . I see this as a wonderful blessing. Thank you, Lord.
What the heck, you using the word aura seriously? lol an aura is not a thing 😂
The only reason this theory exists is because we're looking at it from a 21st century lens. The plain reading of the text is that skin meant skin, and that dark skin was a sign of disfavor with God. That's what church leaders and manuals taught for 150+ years, because it wasn't a problem for people back then. But now that we have a modern view of race, we realize it IS a problem, so we suddenly have to do mental gymnastics to change the meaning of the BoM so it isn't as bad as it sounds. It's an argument made out of necessity to maintain a position, not an argument made from evidence.
I don't understand how people say it is a racism issue. The Lamanites were the same race as the Nephites.
Because people want to see race in everything. We are devolving into tribalism.
Also, if there is any possible way to misinterpret scripture, don't worry, the critics of the church will find it and spin it to their benefit.
Until God changed the Lamanites.
I understand that when all governments collapse in the last days that every family will govern themselves and exist in family groups or tribes.@@jeffreyharris3440
@ns Joseph Smith said they were the same race. Nephites who joined the Lamanites were "marked by God" in Alma 3. But they didn't literally get marked by God. They marked _themselves_.
@@jeffreyharris3440 we do not need critics to misinterpret the scriptures, we do it ourselves just fine. There was no skin color change due to sin:
Idioms are not for idiots. 😂
Idioms do not make sense from one language or culture to another. Scripture list compiled from video “ Blacks in the Scriptures” by Marvin Perkins
Mat 22:36-40. All doctrine fits into loving God and neighbor. D&C 1:24-28 all people including church leaders make mistakes. The Lord is OK with it. D&C 35:23. The Holy Ghost proves prophet’s words. Race theory invented by Johann Friedrick Blumenbach 1775. Later tried to recall his publication.People are people. All shades of brown. Black and white mixed makes gray.
Idioms: phrases that do not mean what the words literally say:
That smells fishy,There is a dog buried here (Swedish),He is a hard nut to crack,Break a leg, Give it a shot, It’s raining cats and dogs.
Curse: separation from God and the Spirit.
NOT skin color changes. Moses 5:36,38-39 Cain cursed from God’s presence. D&C 29:41
Black and white are idioms. Darkness or gloominess, dejection= black. Not skin color
Righteousness, spiritual purity, happiness = white. All people are shades of brown, not shades of gray. Jeremiah 8:21 black means gloomy Jeremiah 14:2 black means gloomy,Joel 2:6 Nahum 2:10 black means frustration Job 30:30 skin is black. Sad because of trials Lamentations 5:10 skin is black like an oven. Gloomy because of starvation. 2Samuel 13:19. Tamar put ashes on her head to show her mourning. She made herself black with ashes. Gloomy
2 Nephi 5:21 full of 10 idioms. Can you see them? We are so used to idioms in our language, we can’t even see them.
1Samuel 16:7 the lord looks on the heart. How could He change appearances His children, and then claim He is only looking on the heart? He does not change skin color as a result of sin. Laman and Lemuel did NOT change skin color. Jacob 3:8 skin is part of the idiom like Job 3:30. 3 Nephi 2:15 skin is part of the idiom. Gloominess was removed and gladness and joy prevailed. Just like lamentations 5:10
Alma 3:4-6 . Why did they have to distinguish themselves after the manner of the Lamanite? A: because they had the same skin color. Most likely a tattoo was the distinction. People mark themselves with their tattoos. ALMA 55:8-9. A search had to be done. It was not obvious by skin color to distinguish Nephites from Lamanites. Then, Laman had to tell them that he was a Lamanite. And those with him were not obviously seen as Nephites. Lamanites could not tell skin color of Nephites.
Substitution trio of same meanings:
2 Nephi 26:33. Alma 1:30, Alma 11:44
These are idioms! These three phrases are interchangeable:1. Black or white. 2. in or out of the church, and, 3. wicked or righteous. These three interchangeable phrases explain the idiom!
Skin color is a great blessing given by God to help regulate sun exposure for health in sunny places (dark brown) and to regulate more vitamin D3 production in less sunny places by (lightest brown)
Lehi’s people were dark when they left Jerusalem, as natives from Middle East, and descendants of Joseph and the Egyptian princess Asenath. Possibly even darker than other Hebrews. How many generations of Joseph’s male descendants married beautiful Egyptian princesses? How did this affect the gene pool of the tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim?
D&C 4:5 qualifications for priesthood
D&C 36:4-5 all to receive priesthood
D&C 63:57
D&C 121:21-23, 24 persecutors to not hold priesthood but will be forgiven if they repent.
While I appreciate the intention of this video, it does gloss over the specific scriptural statement that the Lord placed the mark upon them. Every example that is given is of the Lamanites marking themselves in some manner. If this were the case, then Samuel would not be “a Lamanite” because he wouldn’t have marked himself with any of these forbidden methods.
At that point in the BOM, though, Nephites and Lamanites were merely spiritual and cultural distinctions, not lineage distinctions. Samuel the Lamanites could literally have been more closely related to Nephi
Samuel the Lamanite is a good counter point. There are other Lamanites as well who were righteous. Clearly not a behavioral or custom ID here.
Samuel was called a Lamanite because he was not a member of the Nephite church. Marvin Perkins does an excellent job if you care to look him up. The skin is part of the idiom like in Lamentations 5:10 and Job 30:30.
@@Kaydubbbbso how did they know he was a Lamanite while standing on the wall? Did they ask each other before they tried to shoot him: “hey does anyone know this guy? No? Must be a Lamanite then…”
@@TheJanesaw they knew because he was not part of the Nephite group. The Nephites rejected Samuel. Nobody had to ask around. He kept himself outside of the group and on the wall. We do not actually know if people asked around or not.They didn’t even include his prophecies until the Lord told them they were amiss for not including them.
2 Nephi 5-21-22 clearly states the skin of blackness is to make the Lamanites loathsome in the eyes of the Nephites for the purpose of clearly defining the two groups and keeping them separated. Simply wearing black animal skins or painting their faces or getting tattoos or being spiritually dark doesn't accomplish the purpose of the curse because at any time, a Lamanite could just not do that and then he or she would look like a Nephite. These theories also ignore the fact that today's descendants of Laman have darker skins! God took the family of Adam and Eve, who were originally all the same race, and separated them into different races as they spread across the earth. For whatever reasons, God divided the nations before they came into mortality and enforced that separation with race, culture, language, geographical locations, etc. As far as the Lamanites go, we only know why the original group was cursed. Their descendants are not cursed. Children are innocent when they enter the world. God is the Master Psychiatrist. When we are all done with this mortal life, we will see the wisdom and love God used to put us in the best circumstances for our advancement and preparation for life in Eternity. Remember a whole third of us were dumb enough to fight Heavenly Father. It could be that some of us who made it to mortality have to go through all kinds of misery to fully and finally appreciate what awaits them after this life. Something to consider: If a white guy and a Black guy achieve the same success in life, who had to work harder for it? So who gets more credit? Being born into a non-white race could be a blessing. In my opinion, we each arrive here with custom challenges. The particular race we are born into is just part of the complex custom-made set of circumstances God set up for each of us. That's what I think.
That's the best explanation I have read yet. I believe the skin actually turned black and Farher did it. Just like Jesus applied different things for the blind. We know He loves every one of us but we have to have faith in His methods.
He doesn't have to explain everything to everyone to meet our demands. That's why we need faith and to wait upon Him to let us know Line upon Line.
That’s exactly what I understood. Thanks for reading my mind.
"a Lamanite could just not do that and then he or she would look like a Nephite."
Ya, just like how an Orthodox Jew could take off his yamaka and not be clearly identified as Jewish.
I mean, they could, but under this theory they would just be throwing away their cultural heritage and commitment to their culture and values.
Regardless of how Latter-day Saints interpret the “skin of blackness“ - I interpret it as literal since “the Book of Mormon is the most correct of any book on earth” - we must not pass any interpretation of modern or ancient scripture through the filter of 21st-century political correctness in order to appease those in the great and spacious building who created the false doctrine of political correctness in the first place. If the Lamanites literally had black skin that was not paint or a tattoo, so be it. If it was a literal curse, so be it. That occurrence has nothing to do with anyone who has dark skin today. We Latter-day Saints have nothing for which to apologize on any point of our divine doctrine. The Book of Mormon is the true word of God. That is not my opinion, that is my testimony. The world will accept or reject that testimony, but I will never waiver in my testimony to be accepted by the world.
There is another aspect that wasn’t covered in the video. It’s an idiom that means “gloomy.” See Nahum 2:10 (footnote a), Jeremiah 8:21 (footnote b; also v. 19-22), Joel 2:6 (footnote a).
All of these verses are in the context of facing the judgements of God, in this instance, this was Babylons invasion of Israel and was actually in a timeframe just after Lehi’s family left Jerusalem. This is a contemporary example of this type of language.
Just like in today’s society being sad can be described as feeling blue or having the blues. Even the word melancholy has its origins to the belief that “black bile” was the cause of depression).
Lamentations 5:9-12 the word translated to “black”comes from a word that means “yearning” for food during a famine (see strong concordance)
Exactly. This was not covered, and I believe it is the true meaning of the word "blackness." It's about understanding the culture of the people. We, as a people, never referred to each other as skin tones until much later in human history. Johann Blumenbach is one to look to for some of that and his doctorate degree in classifying the people of the world. Before him, most people are characterized by where they are from. Their country or origin.
If we look detailed at the Bible, the only reference of "white skin" is referred to leprosy.
Marvin Perkins does a great job of talking about this information many years ago.
Exactly !!!
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
I havent watched the video yet, but im glad your covering this topic. Ive always thought of the "skin" of blackness to be like their countenance, or like God gave adam and eve "skins" to wear when they discovered their nakedness, they can be washed clean and white in the blood of the lamb. A.k.a garments.
Also, the curse wasnt a skin of blackness, the curse was to be separated from Gods spirit. The dark countenance or "skin" of blackness was merely a sign of the curse.
I'm sure the Nephites and the lamanites and all of the people back then are laughing about these discussions people are confused about, what does it matter anyway, it's a dumb conversation. Leave it alone no need to make a mountain out of a molehill. Main thing keep reading the book of Mormon🙏👍
@natandjoec Good points!
@@user-xp5lk4lv4gNeither people exist! Native Americans are from Asian descent not Middle Eastern Jews! DNA proves this!
Considering the many uses of 'skin' or 'garment' in relation to 'the covering' of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, I think it is the same here. I have come to understand this black skin, given by the Lord, is a witness of which god Laman and Lemuel have chosen to follow, which was NOT the same God as Abraham. Only those who chose to follow Lehi and Nephi, those who had been called and ordained of God, could have their skins and garments made white through the blood of our Savior Jesus Christ. This principle of needing to have our garments washed clean has been around since the days of Eve and Adam. Jacob refers to this again just a few chapters later. The skins of the wicked will be black, not only because of their own sins but also all those whose sins will fall upon their head because of their corrupt leadership, teachings, and traditions.
@@rebeccapetersen6237 Beautifully put comment 😊
If we take the book of Mormon and try to change the meaning of words, that is theorist historical practices. Or revisionist history. The book says one thing which is pretty clear but then we apply a different meaning with a modern lens and perspective. The book of Mormon follows a common belief at the time of the mound builders mythology which promoted colonialism. We can say this and that is what the book of Mormon meant but there's no way to know for sure. Prophets have not even been consistent because Joseph Smith had a revelation promoting intermarriage with indigenous women to lighten their skin. Later prophets have promoted the skin lightening theory.
Original 1830 Text (2 Nephi 12, p. 117):
“…and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.”
Later, Altered Text (2 Nephi 30:6, 1840 edition)
“…and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white pure and a delightsome people.”
Still Later, Altered Text (2 Nephi 30:6, editions until 1981):
“…white and delightsome…”
Even Later, Altered Text (2 Nephi 30:6, editions until 1981):
“…pure and delightsome…”
Before 1978, dark-skinned males were not allowed to hold positions of priesthood authority within the Mormon Church. Today Mormon scriptures continue to teach dark skin is a curse from God and a sign of His displeasure (See 1 Nephi 12:23; 2 Nephi 5:21; Alma 3:6). Brigham Young, second president and prophet of the LDS church referred to those with dark skin as being “cursed with a s(k)in of blackness” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 272). The Church appears to be struggling with its early statements about people with dark skin. Rather than allow the Book of Mormon to speak for itself, they have altered it to minimize the impact of early Church doctrine.
Loved the invites. Music was distracting.
Yes, why do you think that you need "music" under the narration? It's not actually music. They are sound bites. Very distracting.
You dont need to apologize for the scriptures, it says what it says.
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
"According to the mark that was SET upon their fathers for their rebelliousness". To me, this is something that the Lord put on them. It doesn't seem like it was clothing/decorations that they got to choose. I still don't understand what the curse was, but whatever it was, the Lord gave it to them and the curse followed them through the generations.
It was an attitude!
Jacob 3:5 tells exactly what the curse is
@@zjco9344 in your humble opinion, what you you understand Jacob 3:5 to mean?
@@user-yo5ht6hm7q I'm guessing you're ready to gaslight the scripture and previous prophets teachings.
I don't suppose that it matters that the Lamanites and Nephites were both descended from Lehi who descended from Manasseh. Thus they were the SAME race, notwithstanding the color of their skin.
Well, by that logic we are all of the same race now. We all descended from common ancestors.
Of the same family does not mean of the same race.
@glazeandscumble There is only the human race. Black, white, brown are not races. That is a modern construct designed to cause division
You're missing the point. In 2 Nephi 5:21, try replacing " a skin of blackness" with the following " . . . that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of difference to come upon them." God could also have used any type of difference other than skin color. It doesn't matter. We are all alike unto God. We are all His children. Jesus came and showed us the way to love one another. That's what matters.
Really great video! I deeply appreciate the scholarly research and deep consideration on this sensitive topic. We know the BOM is true and thus helps us understand
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
I broke down and cried after seeing this video. It’s an answer to prayer. It’s been a struggle for both my husband and I. We’ve thought of leaving the church because of this and one other issue. Anyway thank you from the bottom of my heart for this video.
God bless.
Really, this nonsense helped you?
@@MemyzelphandI "nonsense" lol did you not watch this video?
@@GwPoKo Unfortunately, I watched it to the end.
The issue of “blacks” being denied the priesthood and temple attendance until 1978? Brigham Young’s (and other leaders) comments about the “doctrine of the negro”? That it will “always be so” (that they can’t hold the priesthood) ?
There are many nonsense videos against The Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saints but Ignored them because I had spiritual foundation. I know that no doctrine taught of the church that make someone worse.
This was incredibly helpful! Thank you for synthesizing the scholarship so that we can explore some additional possible interpretations of this topic other than the oft-repeated ones. Keep up the great work!
Thank you!
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
I find these arguments convincing that the Lamanites’ skin color could have not literally changed, but I’m still not convinced that that’s not a possibility, with how consistently it’s described
I have learned so much from your videos. Be happy. Love you.
Unbelievable. If it weren’t about literal skin color, then why were people with dark skin not allowed to participate in all church ordinances?
Nice try.
Maybe because of their misinterpretation of Scriptures.
Bingo. Deny then lie. It's the mormon way.
That was my question too. Black folks couldn't participate until 1978.
Has nothing to due with skin color and everything to do with lineage. For example if ancient times those that were from the tribe of Levi held what is called the Levitical Priesthood. They had duties & responsibility of teaching of the Law, offering the sacrifices, maintaining the Tabernacle and the Temple etc... If you were not from the tribe of Levi you simply could not do those responsibilities even if you wanted to. the 12 tribes of Israel shared the same Father but all had similar and different duties. Certain tribes were not allowed to officiate in Priesthood. That does not mean that they were less loved by their Father in Heaven.
@nycboxing8359 "less loved" by God isn't the issue. Did you miss the part were they weren't allowed to hold the priesthood until the late 70s? Where they only finally stopped the segregation, upon threat of losing their tax exempt status, over their continued racism?
Why be afraid of the truth? Skin was the word translated. I take it for face value. No need to be apologetic. The BOM also notes how the Lamanite posterity would later be blessed.
Thanks so much for this excellent video! Growing up I heard every negative myth and fallacy around this topic. It was very had thinking some of these ideas were true. However, I knew regardless of how i felt and if I didn't like something it didn't matter I had received a witness the church was true and I would be faithful no matter what.
As I kept learning and studying though, overwhelmingly the message of the BoM is that God loves all His children, "black and white, bond and free, male and female." Heavenly Father helped me see that He loves me totally and completely. He loves us all, we are His sons and daughters made in His image, and no blessing will be denied to any faithful person!
I kept studying and over the years learned about these explanations that totally dispelled the false beliefs I was once taught. Doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith. I didn't totally understand at first, but I trusted God and He lead me to the truth! Thank you scripture central for shedding light on this topic to get rid of false teachings and spread light and truth! Grateful for all you at SC do!
Dino, Before I was baptized in 1953, at age 25, there were hundreds of passages in the Bible I couldn't understand, yet somehow, I kept my belief that somehow it was OK as the words of The Savior always sat warmly in my heart. I wasn't going to reject it because I didn't understand. I always accepted my intellectual limits. When I read The Book of Mormon for the first time, it seemed very acceptable to me, notwithstanding the difficult trudge going through the plates of Isiah. When I was baptised, I received a confirmation I wish every member could have received. It was amazing. As I studied in the ensuing years perpleing questions that rattled my understanding were just ignored. Here it is in 2024 and I have resolved most of those bumps. I feel sorry for the couple that got up and walked out of church when this scripture (about black skin) was explained in error. I, too, was going to do the same but something pushed me down after I said to my wife, c'mon honey, let's go. I'll never forget both experiences. If one is to endure to the end, (especially today) you must have the help of The Holy Ghost.
@@edwardgabriel5281 Love this brother! Very moving! Touched my heart.
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
Original 1830 Text (2 Nephi 12, p. 117):
“…and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.”
Later, Altered Text (2 Nephi 30:6, 1840 edition)
“…and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white pure and a delightsome people.”
Still Later, Altered Text (2 Nephi 30:6, editions until 1981):
“…white and delightsome…”
Even Later, Altered Text (2 Nephi 30:6, editions until 1981):
“…pure and delightsome…”
Before 1978, dark-skinned males were not allowed to hold positions of priesthood authority within the Mormon Church. Today Mormon scriptures continue to teach dark skin is a curse from God and a sign of His displeasure (See 1 Nephi 12:23; 2 Nephi 5:21; Alma 3:6). Brigham Young, second president and prophet of the LDS church referred to those with dark skin as being “cursed with a s(k)in of blackness” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 272). The Church appears to be struggling with its early statements about people with dark skin. Rather than allow the Book of Mormon to speak for itself, they have altered it to minimize the impact of early Church doctrine.
@@richlopez5896 thank you but I know all this 👍
I remember that I was on my mission when the Prophet Spencer W Kimball spoke in general conference about how the curse of black skin was being removed as they ran the Indian Placement Program in the 1970s. Certainly in that time we all knew that the Book of Mormon was referring to an actual curse of dark skin just as Africans had been given the curse of Cain which resulted in black skin for the reason of separation of our races from intermarrying. Unfortunately with time, people like to rewrite history. I lived it. Let's not change history to be politically correct. Instead face the hard truths. We had no problem with the doctrines of the church with respect to blacks. We were taught that if God is the one who created the curse of black skin on some races, there was nothing to do but accept his will. How can you argue with God. We should not try and whitewash our LDS heritage. The church has changed a lot of things over the years that seems to be done to make the religion more palatable to people. Is that God's will, or is the church gone into a state of apostasy? Or could it have never really been true?
I’ve read in some lds sources in last few years that , Joseph smith ordained some black men the melchesidec priesthood and Brigham young came in and said they couldn’t have it, but they said he could’ve said no at that time because the country was going through a lot of prejudice and to save the black saints as well as white it was taken for a time. Brigham young said it was temporary, for a time. I admire all black saints who have known the past history of this and still get baptize . It’s a trial and a true testimony of your faith
Wresting scriptures with apologetics doesn't exactly go with Nephi telling people how he glories in plainess.
You’re saying apologetics is wresting the scriptures? You obviously are ignoring the historical parallel use of the terms. This is completely consistent with the historical use of these idioms.
It’s apostates who are wresting the scriptures by using presentist views onto societies in the past.
Why do critics of apologists always dodge the issues?
And Nephi also thinks Isaiah is easy to understand
@@vendingdudesif you want to know something about the scriptures, you first pray and then study and it would help if you listen to the spirit, that way you would understand what it's talking about. Isaiah and other scriptures it's not that difficult. People make it harder than what it has to be.. it's like the scriptures already give you the two numbers in the math problem, 1 + 1=( ). The spirit will give you the answer if you ask, since you can't figure it out😞
Sounds like you dont like the mental gymnastics.
6 And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men. Alma chapter 3 talks again about the skin of blackness. It is what it is. It’s so simple.
So you’re saying that skin of blackness doesn’t mean skin of blackness? So Canaanites weren’t actually black either? Gee it’s no wonder no one can understand the scriptures when words don’t mean what words say but something else open to interpretation? I think if Good wants to make someone’s skin dark he can do it.
The best and official answer is "We don't know." Probably not best to speculate
Great information but the background music is too loud - irritating and distracting.
I loved it 😉
If God made people skin Black, so be it. God is God and he can do what ever he wants. Just like how God marked the skin of Cane... let truth be truth.
God did not change Cain’s skin color. His curse was separation from the face of god.
@@Kaydubbbb Read Genesis 4 then read Moses 7, then ponder...
If God wants to mark people with different colors of skin, based on their righteousness, that's his prerogative. Whatever color we are, it behooves each of us too strive to live as righteous a life as possible. Black, brown and red skinned people walking the earth today are proof of this. It's not clothing or paint.
I love the pictures shown in the video. The tree of life, the white garments etc. Where can those be found?
Amazing video!
You can find many of them in the Book of Mormon: Another testament of Jesus Christ videos created by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Search Book of Mormon on YT and you'll find them. The tree of life will be in the 1 Nephi 8 video.
Thanks for the comment. The images are A.I. generated by some talented editors.
I always thought it was interracial marriage. The Lamananites mingled with the dark skinned natives (out of the covenant people, similar to the Samaritans) and their kids would have darker skin. Nothing magical. Just genetics.
This is the best explanation on the subject I have ever heard. I have heard parts of this before. But this was a wonderful compilation. Thank you.
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
How would I know what he meant? Sounds like you should contact Brigham Young for further clarification.
@@daverome1142 I’m pretty sure we both know what someone is referring to when they say black skin and a flat nose. But keep telling yourself it all means something else. I can’t ask Brigham Young anything, we won’t be in the same place. I replied to you in hopes you would see the truth of what is going on. If you don’t change you will be able to ask him yourself one day.
Again I did not make that statement, so I am not sure why I am all the sudden responsible for something someone said 150ish years ago. Maybe you should take some blame for it, you had ancestors living at the time of Young. Why did they go and put him in his place? I blame you for your ancestors not doing that.
There is a belief that we are all descendants of Noah whose three sons were the origin ofwhat we know to be African, Asian, and Caucasians. We've been taught that the Native Americans, who do have a darker pigment, are the descendants of the Lamanites. Why do we down play and try to excuse what is written over and over in the BOM, that the skin was not made Black (maybe Brown, but darker than the Nephite)? So these new claims are saying that either Nephi or Joseph Smith didn't know what they were doing when they wrote it down? I am not White, and it's never bothered me that to initially, keep the Nephites and Lamanites seperate they had to be distinguishable. Yes we get it that the words Pure, Fair, and Black can mean many different things, but let's just keep it simple.
I almost did not join the, "Church of Jesus Christ of LDS", because our black brethren could not hold the Priesthood. I was so grateful when they were finely allied to hold the priesthood! 😀
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
The amount of mental gymnastics this requires is bewildering. It’s really not this complicated its just hard for people to accept because they make assumptions as to what it would mean if it is in fact talking about skin.
100%. My thoughts exactly
Is there a rule written somewhere that if you’re against the Church you have to use the words mental gymnastics?? So overused.
@@kwilly-kr9nx it is mental gymnastics, you would have to ignore canon as well as prophetic statements by early prophets and apostles all the way up to the 1970’s. To accept that it is talking about skin doesn’t contradict anything, to say that it doesn’t contradicts A LOT.
If the skin of blackness cursed was literal, it is not what matters to God on this latter days. Obedience is what Our Heavenly Father requires from us. I think it is better that we don’t emphasize on that verses.
Sigh. When are we going to stop giving in to people being oversensitive. It doesn't matter. I'm a gentile, am I going to be angry that God went to the Jews first with the gospel. Nope. Good thing it never bothered me, guess I don't need a video. We all know inside it's what we do that matters. Satan divides and God unifies. If something is dividing us, it isn't good.
Thank you for making this video. I just wanted to add; the Lamanites were also described as lazy and loathsome. Maybe they rarely took baths(?). Their (valid or invalid) reasons might have included that they were too tired from hunting, and also wanted to retain their hunting camouflage. And yes, I'm pretty sure, they wanted to be marked differently in defiance of the Nephites.
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
Their spiritual condition ultimately became their physical condition and unfortunately their offspring had to bear the consequences of their fore fathers curse, doesn't mean people can't change doesn't mean that it can't be removed. We see later the laminates became righteous so what does that say about agency. There is also the opposite example were the curse is removed in the Book of Mormon and their skin became white and fair (Third Nephi 2:14-16) . why does this bother people so much. I think we are truly living in the days that Isaiah foretold when people just wouldn't be able to handle hard truth and prefer lies of soft language to make them feel more "comfortable". ( Isaiah 30:10 ) Who say to the seers, “Do not see,” And to the prophets, “Do not prophesy to us right things; Speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits.
You are into something about this skin being beyond pure racism. I would like to add that there are cosmic parallels to white and black, for when the Sun is at its peak during the Summer Solstice everything remains white and has life, and when it's the Winter Solstice everything turns dark and black and full of death and decay. These metaphors are setting up the story of enlightenment of the path that these tribes will take. Truly a cosmic story held in the BOM.
Since I got baptized I always somehow felt it was not the skin color. and today in my Sunday School class. I asked my class when reading about this. How do you perceive a person with a lot of challenges let's say, a person with anger, jealousy, stress, and any other thing that makes your spirit feel dark or when you are thinking or invited to do something that is not right. do not you feel something dark and heavy comes around? This is how we came to the conclusion just right before I watched your video.
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
It’s totally what it sounds like. Why else would black people not be granted the priesthood? It’s interesting how Mormon “revelation” changes with the culture.
Black people not getting the priesthood and the Book of Mormon “skin of blackness” are two separate things. Native Americans, which LDS believe might contain some relation to the lamanites, received the priesthood even though they were of actual darker skin. Interesting, right?
Alma 55:4 also suggests the dark skin wasn’t racial… otherwise Moroni wouldn’t have had to search for descendants of Laman in the same way Idris Elba doesn’t play James Bond in Europe
Yes, very good example. That story makes it clear it's about the accent, not the appearance. Notice Moroni has the descendant of Laman talk to the Lamanite guards, while Moroni's other Nephite soldiers go with him and are standing right there!
Seems there had to be something physical for Captain Moroni to search for.
@@ryancormack6934 there might have been, but the whole episode sounds like My Fair Lady or the bar scene in Inglorious Basterds
@@ryancormack6934 criminal or similar “merit”-based tattoos seem like the closest modern equivalent to the physical aspect
I have always thought of the phrase skins of blackness as symbolic of the Mark of The Beast or the act of choosing to follow Satan in thoughts and deeds.
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
It always worries me when people say things like "Well, the scriptures explicitly say "X", but what the Lord *really* meant was something else" and then try to back up their claims with their own opinions or academic scholarship. That usually is the first step on their path to personal apostasy. They're essentially saying that either they can speak for the Lord or that they know better than the Lord who gave the scriptures.
There are multiple references in the Book of Mormon to skin color. As other people have mentioned, it's kind of hard to call the skin color issue a problem of racism when the Lamanites and Nephites all had the same ancestors.
For me, I'm willing to acknowledge that God's ways are above my ways, and if there are things in the scriptures that I don't understand, I can accept that my mind isn't able to comprehend everything that God can comprehend - I don't look to 'scholars' to explain what the Lord (or Nephi or Alma or Mormon) actually meant to write.
We sound silly wrapping ourselves into pretzels trying to explain this away. These explanations are worse than how people received the text itself. I like the former way of answering this question, we don't know.
Wow, the amount of mental gymnastics that one has to go through just to stay in this church is astounding. How about Joseph Smith was writing a book that explained where the indigenous people came from. He noticed that their skin was darker, so he needed a way to change their skin to a darker tone. So, he used a curse, the same curse that was used to justify slavery at the time. You can read comments from actual LDS prophets who specifically state it refers to their skin. Spencer W Kimball believed that peoples skin were becoming white and delightsome based on their membership in the church 😅😅😅
Great insights! Thanks for sharing
Great video and context, my only issue is the reaffirmation of the narrative Brigham Young and other prophets continued to share and stand on about the black (AFRICAN) race in early church history until the early 70s.
Even if it was a physical darkening of the skin, possibly from mixing with a people already living in the land where they settled, it would be the most easily seen feature at a distance, to let one group know not to join with, and adopt the practices and beliefs of another group. An extra arm or head would be extremely unlikely. Hair can be shaved, and all other features would require close proximity to notice. But as pointed out in this video, it doesn't have to refer to physical skin color, or at least not always, though that does seem to be the case when they are looking for pure descendants of Laman among the 2,000 Stripling Warriors, to act as spies. So if physical appearance was required to infiltrate the Lamanites, that would preclude body paint, tattoos and clothing alone.
Well said. 👏 Except one small thing, it wasn't among the Stripling Warriors it was just among Moroni's men and it turned out to be one of the former servants of the king killed by Amalickiah. Source is Alma 55: 4-5. 👍 Easy mistake considering how close it is to the chapters on those awesome young men. 😁
@@BoMwarriorVlog Even so, the point that it has to be a direct descendant of Laman, which could only be for physical characteristics, still applies.
While white and black can be use symbolically, that doesn't mean you can just write off anytime they are used as symbolic. They can be actual as well and you have to look at the context. It feels like a lot of what this video does is try to hammer round pegs into square holes to try and appease those who are not comfortable with the clear and plain meaning of the scriptures.
The Book of Mormon lays out very clearly that the dark skin was a literal, visual thing put upon the Lamanites by God, not by themselves. The purpose for marking the Lamanites with a dark skin was specifically to make them visually distinct from Nephites to keep them separated (Alma 3:14). This prevented Lamanites from infiltrating Nephite society and corrupting it from within with the wicked traditions of their fathers. It couldn't do that if it was something removable, or if it was not something visual and obvious. The bit where the Amlicites mark themselves on their foreheads again shows this is clearly a visual distinction. Their children would not 'become' fair if this was some kind of tattoo or body paint the they just stopped using. Everyone would start out as fair if that was the case and it wouldn't be remarkable that their children no longer had the mark.
I really don't like that you avoid giving reference for what you quote, and in some cases you misrepresent what is said. For example look at Alma 3:5-6. You cut out bits of that and put it together to make it sound like the dark skins are only referring to what they were wearing, but if you read the full verses that is just not so. It says "and they were naked, save it were skin which was girded about their loins, and also their armor, which was girded about them, and their bows, and their arrows, and their stones, and their slings, and so forth." And with that it is done describing what they wore, with no comment on the color of their loincloth. Then it goes on to say "And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers," It doesn't say the skins worn by the Lamanites were dark, it says that their own skin was dark, and it was dark as a result of mark put on their ancestors by God, so it would be something generically inherited. There is nothing to justify it being a reference to their attire.
You also have the incident in Alma 55 where they needed someone to infiltrate a Lamanite stronghold, so they specifically seek out someone of Lamanite decent for the job. The guards see him coming, see he is of Lamanite decent, and automatically assume he is on their side and let him in. If it was not possible to visually tell a Nephite apart from a Lamanite they would not have take the time to find a Lamanite for the job, and the guards would not have been so quick to accept his story and let him in.
A good point you missed is that Lamanites and Nephites were not of different races, they were both of the house of Israel and are constantly referred to as such and as brethren to the Nephites.
The fact of the matter is that God did mark the Lamanites with a dark skin just as it says. And that is the extent of the curse. Skin color and nothing more. If that is a challenge for someone's faith I hope they study further to see and accept the truth.
How can it be considered racial when both Nephites and Lamanites both come from the same family?
cain and able were same family but cain had skin color literally changed
making him easy to see and tell the difference...so makes sense lamanites had a change too
either by choice or not.
another group is talked about painting themselves in blood...ew...which would look gross and reddish to brown
Great video! Thanks for sharing!
This was the most wonderful video. And sister Jasmine is not only one of the smartest young ĺadys I have ever listened to , she is also the most beautiful.
While appreciating your obvious shared testimony of the gospel, and duly noting the respectful emotional/social distance/boundary you gave in calling her "sister" first, I cringe when people make *any* broadly public emphasis about someone's appearance (beauty or even lack of) because it goes underneath developed, chosen virtues/attributes to focus on one that is never purely by choice/development-it shoots low and shallow. And I double cringe when it is obvious you are speaking about a married woman (ring plainly visible). Myself, I avoid complimenting the beauty of married women-a no-go for me. To me, it can easily be seen/construed as flirtatious-why I avoid it, as I refuse to flirt with married women. Additionally, plainly visible is that she shields and preserves the modesty/chastity of her appearance (visible in her choice of modest clothing).
In and of itself, it is not outright bad or harmful to compliment or critique a person's appearance...but when in front of more than just one or a few people who know the person being complimented, it makes me concerned about the shallowness and how the more shallowness is publicly shared/emphasized, the more normative shallowness becomes.
Blah...we're all on our own spiritual journeys to God and I am ecstatic over EVERYONE, like you and her, who is actively on that journey. I am sinful, flawed and imperfect and have plenty of my own repenting and improvements to work on to stay busy for a very long time. So I took time for this, hoping you understand my love for you, her, myself, everyone.
Please, danite620, I mean no personal offense in my critique here. But yes, I am urging you to think about my critique and seeing what is, if I am in any way right, a better way. Maybe try complimenting people's physical tastes or styles or apparel choices (it compliments something they choose/control) without naming in front of many people compliments on physical appearance (something less in a person's control), such as complimenting her choice of shirt. Or compliment her confident speaking ability with good use of smiling and hand gestures to be pleasant to watch and hear, etc. Please, maybe future, consider avoiding complimenting beauty/handsomeness on anyone in deference for focus and compliments on chosen, developed qualities and skills!
P.S. I also do not think she will be offended by your compliment, but it could make her feel a little awkward for similar reasons as I have noted.
P.P.S. Your profile picture rocks! Unabashed to offer a portrait, dressed classily and, my favorite, your ivy cap is awesome, perfectly coordinated with your outfit to boot! I also love that you love French, besides loving the restored gospel, and I subscribed to your channel! I served a mission in Paris a long time ago and remain nearly fluent :)
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
In support of the idea that "skin" refers to clothing (animal skins), look at Alma 13, verses 11-12, which talks about how through the Atonement "their garments are made white", also referencing clothing in its symbolism. In other words, through rebellion against God there is "skin of blackness" but through repentance and the Atonement "their garments are made white". Has nothing to do with skin color. "skin (clothing) of blackness" is symbolic of the spiritual state of one that rejects God just as "garments (clothing) made white" is symbolic of the opposite.
Also, with reference to those scriptures in Lamentations using "black" and "white" to refer to people's spiritual state (not physical), Lamentations was written by Jeremiah, who was a contemporary of Nephi, i.e., it's not unreasonable to believe Nephi would use the imagery in the same way as Jeremiah. (see also other instances where Jeremiah used this imagery of someone appearing "black" but it's clearly not referring to their physical appearance in Jeremiah 8:21 & 14:2).
Also see Jacob 3:8, Jacob teaching his people at a time when the Nephites were wicked "I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins [the Lamanites] will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God." It's pretty clear he's not talking about their literal skin color, but rather their spiritual state.
At the end of the video ypu reference "Knowing why 718" I have watched a few videos now with references like this, but I have no idea where to find them. Can someone help me out??
Under the title and next to the number of hours ago that it was posted, you can read the word "more". Pressing it will take you to a summary of the video. At its end you will see two links. One will take you to the KnowWhy.
KnoWhy. It's another app they have I believe.
Some of the scriptures in the BofM clearly are referring to an actual physical change in appearance. Other references seem to be making spiritual parallels. They are both true. We don’t need to be ashamed of a book that was written over a 1000 years ago. Their outlook of the world is not a direct reflection of our own today. The mental gymnasts people go thru to attempt to wiggle around this is astonishing. 2 Nephi 26:33 which is quoted in this video is proof enough of the truth that God denies none to come unto Him.
By the way, the church is growing in leaps and bounds in Africa. People there don’t seem to have an issue with this. Could it be they recognize this was from another time and it doesn’t apply to them?
The irony is it is our generation that is obsessed with race. We mark it when we apply for jobs or school. It’s appalling that we’re even asked. We celebrate “name your race” week or month. It’s silly.
Question: around 8:07 of the presentation there is a painting shown of two robed figures viewing a cosmic scene. What is that painting? Thanks
This is an A.I. generated image our talented editors created
@@scripturecentralofficial Cheers. I was going to ask for the painter's contact etc. as I wanted a print. It looks great.
This was excellent. Thank you so much.
There are some intriguing thoughts here; but if “skin of blackness” doesn’t refer to some physiological feature akin to race or ethnicity, then isn’t it a misappropriation of 2 Ne 26:33 and Jacob 3:9 to cite them as though they condemn racism?
It seems to me like some apologists are trying to pick and choose-we are expected to believe that the parts of the BoM that seem to accept race-based distinctions aren’t actually talking about “race” as we know it today, but we are simultaneously assured that the parts of the BoM that seem to condemn such distinctions *are* talking about race.
Additionally, appeals to Joseph Smith seem a little . . . selective, since IIRC he was also apparently on-record suggesting that the Lamanites (native Americans) would be “whitened” through intermarriage of their daughters with Church elders of European ancestry.
I suspect that many BoM apologists are trying to follow the late 20th century social ideal of a “color-blind society”. That’s all well and good; but now that social mores are evolving and insisting on one’s own “color blindness” is increasingly seen to itself be a sign of systemic racism-it’ll be interesting to see if the modern “the BoM actually isn’t referring to race” approach has any real staying power over the next couple of decades.
Apologists have absolutely no credibility, they lack intellectual integrity and this is a literal insult to people's intelligence. This curse in the BOM about dark skin as well as the curse mentioned in Pearl of Great Price was the basis for Brigham Young priesthood ban in the early days of the church. For them today to say that is not about skin color is absolutely disgusting. The LDS church refuses to accept responsibility for any past mistakes and sins but with great hypocrisy preach repentance to others from their pulpits.
@@FFM115 I think the Church has actually been more careful than many apologists have been-for example, the Church statement quoted in the video carefully uses the present rather than the past tense (ie, “the Church rejects the idea that skin IS a sign of a curse . . .”) The Church has also never come out and said that the priesthood ban was a mistake; though many apologists clearly wish that it would.
I think there’s been a lot of good work done by the LDS apologetic community. But sometimes I think they get a little too wrapped up in seeking approval from folks-especially academics-who are not of our faith; and lose sight of the fact that as a church we will never, *ever* have the full approval of outsiders. Our own scripture says that this will be the case. The role of an apologist isn’t just to say “hey, deep down we’re just like you!”; it’s to clearly, truthfully, and fearlessly acknowledge the tensions between us and broader society and the things that make us unique.
@@mgy401 my original comment was deleted which doesn’t surprise me, apologists are a disgrace and do more harm than good to the church and to Christ’s gospel. They simply cannot handle the truth, they hide behind their narrative, they avoid any sincere open discussion.
Quit trying to be politically correct. And make excuses.
Very interesting, thank you so much for the hard work that went into this one.
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
@@johnstark-StarkAvionics I will have to look it up. But you know that early Prophets speculated openly, like Adam God theory and such. That's in the JD as I understand, but I haven't read it. It is NOT considered church doctirne.
You can't be serious. You should study up on what church leaders have taught on the subject.
Isn't it possible the essay is referring to race and the priesthood as its titled not the book of mormon which never gets into the priesthood ordination aspect?
"Denieth none that come unto him, black and white...." not tattooed and white, painted and white or he who wears black.....
Seems to me that this refers to people of all skin colour who can come unto Christ, something almost all people can agree to.
It’s very clear that their skin was darkened to differentiate the Lamanites from the Nephites. It’s not stating that dark skin is bad. However, it’s clearly not referring to a dark state of mind. There’s nothing to apologize for. It is what it is…
💯
Where did you get your explanations? Speculating?
Wonderful insight! Thank you.
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
LOVE THIS!!! 🙌 I always knew there were rational reasons for this language regarding cultural and historical significance of the text. 💖 Thank you for your thorough dedication! 🤓
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
I believe Nephi was referencing a spiritual state when he was talking about this but as an African American, I if i had to come into this live all over again , i wouldn't choose to be any other race, Afircan American people age wonderfully and gracefully and because of the amount of Melanin in Afircan americans people skin, they typically dont have to be concerned about stuff like sunburn and skin cancers . I see this as a wonderful blessing. Thank you, Lord.
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
I'm trying to find the video you mentioned at the end of this video. ( Knowhy#718)
can you provide a link.
thank you so much
I believe she was referencing an article found here: knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/what-is-the-skin-of-blackness-in-the-book-of-mormon
I guess I could see the possibility with darkness being related to things besides skin color but it could be both.
Not sure why we are comparing the Book of Mormon to the Mayan. For me that is like comparing the Greeks with the people of God of the Bible and trying to show how they are similar. I wish members would do more research on the Mayan.
The Mayan have absolutely nothing to do with the Nephites and Lamanites in the Book of Mormon. Thank you for saying this. Members have this facade that it does for NO legitimate reason.
What a great information! Love that exploring all posible explanation to that dark mark do bring different perspectives. This does not affects my testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon., however adds clarity to its content. Thank you!
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
If those passages are not specifically and directly referring to skin, then how do we account for the Native Americans and the blacks having dark skin?
That’s a biological thing, because these people lives generally outdoors and I’m hotter areas, generational began to have darker and darker skin becuase the melanin within protects them
Thanks so much for this wonderful insight! Where can I find the additional material mentioned at the end of this video? A google search did not bring it up.
There's a link in the description of the video.
I believe she was referencing an article found here: knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/what-is-the-skin-of-blackness-in-the-book-of-mormon
To me, The curse was not the darkening of skin but the separation from the righteous. We were definitely marked darker…that’s the only explanation on how I can explain my skin color…it makes sense to me.. literal skin darkening to separate the wicked from the righteous..Christ coming and dying for our sins the curse is then null and void and now we are known by our fruits and not our skin color anymore…
There is yet another theory you did not touch on, but would dovetail with what you stated. Several citations lead us to assume Lehi's family thought they were the sole inhabitants of this "Promised Land" they crossed the great deep to reach. We know from Archaeological research that both North and South America was already inhabited by millions of people in 600 BC predominantly from four regions of the world; northern Asia, the Pacific polynesian ring, the Caucus mountains east of the Mesopotamia Valley (gee, I wonder who those guys were?), and northern Europe. It's possible, and this is speculative, that the Nephites, after separating from the Lamanites, assuming Lehi's progeny were the sole inhabitants of this land, encountered an indigenous people of an entirely different culture from anything they were familiar with, whom they assumed were Lamanites. Who else could they be?
SUCH A BLESSING!!! MORE VIDEO LIKE THIS PLEASE
Then how do you explain the reference to black skin and flat nose? Flat nose really?! JD 7 page 290 Brigham Young himself.
Things like appearance are a distraction. And good looks are not always a blessing because it feeds the ego and puts emphasis on the shallow and superficial
So helpful!! Thank you
I’ve always had a bit of a problem with this, and I really glad you brought for these series and additional information. The one thing I still wonder about is why the blacks couldn’t hold the priesthood for the long time if God is the same yesterday today and alwaysand he loves all his children from the beginning of time I don’t understand it maybe your next video could focus on that
That is a pretty complicated history. You would need to understand the politics and social pressures on the church regarding emancipation, the Missouri execution order, the curse of Cain doctrine (not ours, thanks Protestants) slave ownership by some members of the church, the trek to Utah, how to deal with slaves and freeman regarding priesthood, church and temple worship, the civil war and Utah becoming a state with the demands of the federal government. Brigham young was put in an impossible position as there were bad consequences in all directions.
Fantastic video and brilliant explanations. 👏
Are you talking about the Book of Mormon or are you talking about what BY did? They are different.
Baptized native Americans, even with their “dark skin”, received the priesthood if I’m not mistaken.
I don’t understand if you’re mixing the two separate things together or not.
I kinda got a theory like say it was eveningish and coloring a picture with crayons. As it got harder to see shades without standing to turn a light on grabbing a dark color and noticing after applying a streak. If i had to imagine where it would be located near a right nip/sternum area. Im not very litterate so probly just dumb suggestions
Thanks for clarifying that scripture. The curse that God placed upon them is spiritual death and their rebellion against God by wearing black animals skin and tattooing themselves makes more sense. Thanks for sharing this video.
Sorry for question sus UT why after Joseph Smith gave the priesthood to black brother then came Brigham and revoked the priesthood from them ?
The theories presented concerning ancient history are outlandish. Why must hard things be rationalized? I agree with the presenter from the 12 minute mark to the end only. Thanks for ending with correct doctrine.
Certainly good points are made in this video. Greg over on Cwic Media has said many of the same things as well. It most certainly does not have anything to do with race at all. It is all relating to spirituality. The thing about tattoos though I would not have thought of. But it makes sense. Looking forward to watching more of your videos.