This video has been incredibly helpful in understanding why the place of Mary in the Orthodox Church is so prominent. It has cleared up many of my fears and reservations as an inquiring Protestant. Thank you father!
Totally underrated video, i haven't seen anyone go into such detail just fully addressing the protestant claims and explaining our position scripturally. Father bless!
Hello Fr. Andrew, Thank you for the thought-provoking lecture. As a Protestant, I have a few sincere questions I'd like to discuss with you. Firstly, you mentioned that the Theotokos was like us, but obedient to God. However, the Orthodox Church teaches that she never sinned, while the Scriptures clearly state that all have sinned and fall short of God's glory. This makes it difficult for me to see her as truly "like us" in this respect. The early Church Fathers, such as St. John Chrysostom, did not seem to have the same understanding of Mary's sinlessness (See his commentary on John 3). Secondly, how do you explain a lack of evidence for the level of Marian devotion in the earliest Church that is now prevalent in Orthodoxy. While we have the Protoevangelium of James, which suggests an elevated view of Mary, the early Church Fathers do not appear to emphasize devotion to her to the same degree. They speak of her role in the redemption plan, but the widespread veneration we see today is not as apparent. I am open to Orthodoxy and appreciate the opportunity to discuss these matters with you. However, these questions continue to trouble me and I would be grateful for your insights.
Fr Andrew likely has already explained many things and given many resources, but one answer to that wondering could be that the MODE of venerating Holy Theotokos has always been the same, but the FORM of it has naturally "developed" over time. The Eastern Orthodox worship has generally adapted much influences from the emperor's court of Byzantine Empire, and thus it could be natural to think that this is the case with "devotion to Mary". However, we know that mother queens in Middle East (and in Babylonian Empire) were practically the chief counsellors (and dream interpreters) of kings, seated at the right hand of their son, and there are some clues in the Old Testament that this was POSSIBLY the case in Judaism as well... The early semi-Jewish Church would have just continued with these concepts, and due to Christological controversies Mary was forced to background. Additionally, one of the oldest extra-Biblical Christian prayer is dedicated to Mary. The papyrus fragment in question is dated back to the late 200s or early 300s (meaning it existed and was used in the days of St John Chrysostom), but considering this most likely is not the first piece of paper that prayer was written down, the prayer itself is - from purely archaeological perspective - at least 50 years, if not 100 years, older than the fragment... Meaning that this prayer came to exist during the 200s. And archaeological data is very often preserved very randomly: it might be the argument of holes, but we don't simply know how many other prayers to Virgin Mary were prayed that are just not survived or not found yet... Of course the opposite might be true as well and dedication to Mary started to take some solid form in the 3rd century.
This video has been incredibly helpful in understanding why the place of Mary in the Orthodox Church is so prominent. It has cleared up many of my fears and reservations as an inquiring Protestant. Thank you father!
This was so good for me, a recent convert from protestantism. Please do more of these in-depth bible studies. ❤
Totally underrated video, i haven't seen anyone go into such detail just fully addressing the protestant claims and explaining our position scripturally. Father bless!
Magnificent talk Father. Glory be to God.
This is great! Thank you Fr Andrew.
Wow!
Great video/lesson Father. Thank you. Blessed Feast. ☦️
Amen ☦️🤍🙏
Hello Fr. Andrew,
Thank you for the thought-provoking lecture. As a Protestant, I have a few sincere questions I'd like to discuss with you.
Firstly, you mentioned that the Theotokos was like us, but obedient to God. However, the Orthodox Church teaches that she never sinned, while the Scriptures clearly state that all have sinned and fall short of God's glory. This makes it difficult for me to see her as truly "like us" in this respect. The early Church Fathers, such as St. John Chrysostom, did not seem to have the same understanding of Mary's sinlessness (See his commentary on John 3).
Secondly, how do you explain a lack of evidence for the level of Marian devotion in the earliest Church that is now prevalent in Orthodoxy. While we have the Protoevangelium of James, which suggests an elevated view of Mary, the early Church Fathers do not appear to emphasize devotion to her to the same degree. They speak of her role in the redemption plan, but the widespread veneration we see today is not as apparent.
I am open to Orthodoxy and appreciate the opportunity to discuss these matters with you. However, these questions continue to trouble me and I would be grateful for your insights.
Hello. I'd be happy to discuss this further with you. Perhaps an email or a Zoom call?
@@fr.ajarmus I would love to talk! Thank you! zoom would be great. Email is fine too. I work till 3.30 PM ET.
Very good. I just sent you an email to confirm a time.
Fr Andrew likely has already explained many things and given many resources, but one answer to that wondering could be that the MODE of venerating Holy Theotokos has always been the same, but the FORM of it has naturally "developed" over time. The Eastern Orthodox worship has generally adapted much influences from the emperor's court of Byzantine Empire, and thus it could be natural to think that this is the case with "devotion to Mary". However, we know that mother queens in Middle East (and in Babylonian Empire) were practically the chief counsellors (and dream interpreters) of kings, seated at the right hand of their son, and there are some clues in the Old Testament that this was POSSIBLY the case in Judaism as well... The early semi-Jewish Church would have just continued with these concepts, and due to Christological controversies Mary was forced to background.
Additionally, one of the oldest extra-Biblical Christian prayer is dedicated to Mary. The papyrus fragment in question is dated back to the late 200s or early 300s (meaning it existed and was used in the days of St John Chrysostom), but considering this most likely is not the first piece of paper that prayer was written down, the prayer itself is - from purely archaeological perspective - at least 50 years, if not 100 years, older than the fragment... Meaning that this prayer came to exist during the 200s. And archaeological data is very often preserved very randomly: it might be the argument of holes, but we don't simply know how many other prayers to Virgin Mary were prayed that are just not survived or not found yet... Of course the opposite might be true as well and dedication to Mary started to take some solid form in the 3rd century.
Hey how did the discussion go ? Please explain in detail