Hello everyone! I hope you enjoy this iceberg! I can't get my head out of Elden Ring lore - and since it takes me a little over a month to make these videos, a lot has deepened in the Elden Ring lore discovery. What's everyone's thoughts on me making more parts to this iceberg? Potentially making growing its way to be a massive iceberg over time. Of course I want to work on other content too, but Elden Ring at the moment has me hooked!
I’d love for you to make multiple videos for Elden Ring as more discoveries are made. Then you could make a compilation of all the parts once you were finished. I see a lot of iceberg channels do that and I tend to watch them.
Yup One big hole in that story is that we burn her eyes out and in ds3 we give black eyes to fier keeper Well i duno if it's connected to DS1 or DS3 But the royal dead armor is defently is King Vendrick, hell the armor even have he's loincloth
After I finished the game, I felt that "Lands Between" stood for "between the influence of Outer Gods", who constantly thrive for dominance over the Lands Between. Just an interpretation that was natural to me, I don't think there's a right or wrong meaning for this name!
Also keep in mind that your journey through the lands between ends up advancing from spring to summer, from summer to fall, and then from fall to winter. To me that's also circumstantial evidence that TLB represents the afterlife.
More likely that it’s limbo. Constant unending death. I think that everything in elden ring is just happening in reality though because as you play you’ll learn more about death and how it’s affected
@@jlara7238 I think Caelid and Liurnia are both aspects of summer IMO. Liurnia could go either way between spring and summer. Altus is obv fall and Mountaintops of the Giants is winter.
Fun fact: the samurai armor set says it’s from the Land of Reeds, which in Japanese translates to Ashina, the same place Sekiro takes place. Meaning this is all in the same universe.
@@adonis8293 thanks man! I’m a low level Sekiro snob so I chose the samurai. Read the description and make the connection. Cool little detail no one I’ve seen mention.
@@adonis8293 if you played Sekiro you’d notice some mentions of reeds. Even in gameplay you do literally fight a few bosses in a field of reeds. I believe this is a hint that it’s all in the same universe. Or atleast a small cameo.
Elden Ring...the best game ever made...touches on Demon Souls through Sekiro. Bloodborne and DS1 through 3. They all are the same fucked up world. Totally brilliant. George RR Martin said maybe one day video games would actually be art...if this is not art...I don't know what is. This game is a masterpiece amongst masterpieces. 11 out of 10. Top score.
One thing to note about the St Trina and Miquella theory, the description on the Torch of St. Trina states “The carvings depict St. Trina, but in adult form, somewhat unnervingly.” I have taken this as further confirmation that St. Trina was an alternate name Miquella went by because, as we know, Miquella was cursed to be forever young thus depicting him as an adult would definitely fall under “somewhat unnervingly”
Interesting Linguistic Thing: The name/word Trina is the feminine form of the Latin word Trinus, meaning "three-fold" or "having-three." Considering the dual-god nature of Marika/Radagon, and the close relationship between Malenia and Miquella, I wonder if this "Trina" persona was meant to be a spiritual link between the two? Like the Holy Ghost between the Father and the Son; this is the Saint between the Brother and the Sister.
Maybe Loretta was a normal human but she was disabled from the legs down like an albinauric. She wanted to help them so badly because she resonated with their disability and so she left for the Haligtree. That would explain 1) why she wanted to help the albinaurics so bad 2) is always on her horse and 3) bleeds red.
There is an amazing video about Miquella by SmoughTown. Part of the video is talking about Loretta and how she came to leave the Carian Manor because of what the Carians were doing to the Albinauricss, why she began to serve Miquella and why she fights so hard for them. Most of the video is pretty well supported by evidence and there's not a lot of baseless speculation ala Hawkshaw. It's a shame we have to kill her.
Albinauric women look more beautiful than the men do and they’re also first generation that weren’t crossbred with mimic tears and frogs. I’m pretty sure she’s also albinauric
has anyone here every ridden a horse? it requires a log of leg strength. additionally, Loretta has several leg animations she does as she controls her steed. her legs aren't useless.
Godfrey's story is pretty clear, he's a fighter, a warrior. Being told "stop fighting and rule" is something he'd simply never be able to do [to the point that the very creature created to stop his bloodlust was not able to do so], so he and his warriors were merely removed from the Lands Between to do what they knew: Fight, learn, do battle and then return when they were more powerful to be used by Marika. The amount of cut content in the game is also incredibly interesting.
He did stop fighting and rule though, that's why he has Serosh with him. To curb his bloodlust so he could conduct himself as a lord. He ruled as Marika's first elden lord for a very long time as well, so saying that Serosh was unable to do his job seems unreasonable, especially when we literally see the transformation Godfrey undergoes after killing him.
@@JtotheMeezy How the heck is it unreasonable when we KNOW that, even with Serosh, his bloodlust took over? IT IS PART OF HIS LORE. At least learn it a bit before talking?
@@AzureRoxe we see his bloodlust take over when he kills Serosh, if he'd lost it before then the lion wouldn't be there as that's his sole job. We literally watch him strip himself of the name of Godfrey mid cutscene. And if you read the lore, Marika stripped him of his grace once he'd defeated all of her enemies. He wasn't simply tossed out because he wouldn't stop fighting, Marika had come to the end of her use for him and his strength. At the end of the day, we're all making theories trying to figure out the history of this game. People like you and the way you talk are the reason so many people view any fanbase as toxic, because you take any disagreement on lore way too personally and then take unnecessary swings at them. I've learned a lot about the game, hence why I felt comfortable putting my point of view across. Neither I nor anybody else needs some kid like you throwing negativity at them over something that matters this little.
I'd like to propose an entry for maybe a future iceberg: the cruicible. There is an underlying theme of this serpentile trait coming from the cruicible, wich was where all life was merged in. From the dragons to the god eating serpent and the worship of snakes, the godskins and the power of the cruicible knights having the characteristics of a dragon and later on the mistbegotten inheriting degenerate elements of said serpent-like beings. Side note: there's also these angelic wings involved in it. Dragons have their wings ofcourse, the cruicible knights can create the wings, the volcano manor has these statues of snakes that have wings and so do the mistbegotten.
34:19 Correction: The Stormlord is a completely different entity to the Dragonlord, Placidusax. The Stormlord is linked to Stormveil and the various Ashes of War you can find around there, and used by its warriors. The Dragonlord is instead linked to lightning and also golden holy power, as seen in the Incantation, Placidusax' Ruin. Likely remnants of the rays of gold he possessed as an Elden Lord. It is apparent that Godfrey fought the Stormlord, but I don't think there is any direct evidence that he fought the Dragonlord, though it is possible.
Great correction to raise! When I was writing this script I was definitely under the thought process that Dragonlord Placidusax was infact the Stormlord, with one of the main points for this being that he is physically seen amongst the storms. Would like to hear your thoughts on what in the Ashes of War hints at a different Storm Lord, here's some other items that could propose a different Stormlord: The Stormhawk Denh states that its the "Spirit of a fierce hawk that faithfully rendered lifelong service to the old king of Stormveil long ago, when the true storm raged. " eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Stormhawk+Deenh The Stormhawk King, found at the end of the Chapel of Anticipation is the "Ashes of a hawk revered by all others as sovereign back in the days when Stormveil's winds still raged like no other. eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/The+Stormhawk+King This ancient monarch is proud however, refusing to answer anyone's summons." So the Stormlord king could actually be an eagle, rather than a dragon!
@@natiscool I believe it's likely the Stormhawk King. Stormhawk Deenh is simply too underpowered imo, but he's probably not too far from what the Stormlord was. It's possible that a lot of the hawks we see around Castle Stormveil are descended from that same legendary being; similar to how the dragons descended from the Ancient Dragons, but no longer have stone scales or red lightning. After all, it seems Nepheli takes a liking to it, as it reminds her of her first hawk. Being a descendant of Hoarah Loux, she's also a trueborn heir to Limgrave. That same hawk could very well have *actually* been Nepheli Loux's first hawk, depending on how old she is. Finally, upon completing Nepheli's questline, she announces that she is going to "summon the storm." That could be giving away that she does, in fact, possess the Storm King.
@@natiscool Also, looking at Stormhawk King's lore again, it sounds pretty convincing. "Ashes of a hawk revered by all others as sovereign back in the days when Stormveil's winds still raged like no other." It could very well have once been the Stormlord, or at least its vassal or beast regent. After all, "beasts are drawn to lords," as we see with Blaidd, Serosh and Maliketh, and their masters. And now it has, by fate, come under Nepheli's charge. The Stormlord may have even been an outer god that uses others as its avatars or emissaries. But I think the sovereign hawk is good enough for me lol. Would like more clarity on all these lords and gods in the DLC, if it comes.
I like the idea that marika shattered the elden ring and sent the tarnished away to give them the freedom and agency to become strong for themselves, for better or worse
The world building designs and game development of Elden Ring is just mind boggling. How big was this team and how long did this all take?? I am just speechless.
What amazed me was that George Martin actually wrote the original world for Elden Ring many years ago! It just shows how much effort and how long it takes to make amazing video games!
What's even more impressive is they were developing Sekiro Shadows Die Twice literally at the same time and also developed Elden Ring with 2 years of the pandemic having happened. Fromsoftware has 2 teams that work on separate games normally. Elden Ring started development after The Ringed City dlc from Dark Souls 3
Nepheli being a daughter of Godfrey, or related to him in some way? If not that, then at the very least it implies that the entire tribe Godfrey came from carry loux as a surname.
The hero start says that you’re a descendant of a badlands chieftain and the description of the armor itself says they follow the example of their chieftain Hoarah Loux
I believe she is the daughter of Hoarah Loux, perhaps born before he wed Marika and became Godfrey. I think the most telling evidence is she shares the same last name of Loux.
@@CallOfTheMadMan I don't think she's a daughter, but definitely a descendant. Godrey had been dead a long time before he was resurrected as a tarnished
That is a fair theory as well. I'm not 100% certain how aging works in the world, it seems some characters could be centuries old and barely reflect it
@@CallOfTheMadMan her age doesn't really matter. If she's anything like gideon, the player character, and even hoarah loux, then she was dead when grace was returned to her, and was revived by the erd tree.
I don't think that being an Omen prevents you from returning to the Erdtree as we still get Remembrances from the Omen twins, Morgott and Mohg. This means that their souls also return to the Erdtree to be reborn. The defiling of the reproductive organs is an interesting idea, though. It makes sense. There was another theory linking that defilement to something the Headless from Sekiro do to you. They're apparently based on some kind of yokai and rip some kind of soul fragment out of their victims through their anus; which would explain the name "Dung Eater" rather well. It would appear that he devours souls in a similar fashion. Also, Roderika mentions a cacophony of tortured souls emanating from the Dung Eater, which would also make sense if he's devouring these souls, sealing them within himself to prevent them from returning to the Erdtree.
You forgot the albanaurics in the consecrated snowfield. There is also a giant albanaurics there so that shows that it is plausible that Loretta is an albanauric. Especially so that to get to the actual Loretta you have to go through a town protected by the albanaurics.
Elden ring what a utterly breathtaking Masterpiece of a game.... having spent over 200 hrs play Elden ring there are so many subtle and very easy to miss references and connections to previous games..... One of my favorite is the item description for (rivers of blood) kantana Weapon of okina swordsman from the land of reeds a cursed weapon that has failed countless men. When mohg the Lord of blood first felt Okina's sword and Madness upon his flesh he had a proposal to offer okina the life of a demon who's thirst would never go unsated... definitely sounds like a reference to sekiro with the demon of hatred
the story is an excuse for all the games and game mechanics to be explained away. Literally even leveling is explained away through growing stronger in runes or grace. But to reach new levels of strength you have to acquire more grace either from more enemies or more challenging ones.
I think one thing that you didn’t touch on at all is the Dusk/Gloom-Eyed Queen (referred to as both in various item descriptions) who was the leader of the godskins but she’s never actually mentioned by anyone in the game. I’ve seen a bunch of theories about her with one of those being that Melina is either the Gloom-Eyed Queen or maybe the daughter of her with the primary evidence being that Melina knows where the rune of death is (you get sent here after burning the Erdtree but you also do if you burn yourself so who knows) and theoretically, very few would know where Malekith was located but one of those would be the Gloom-Eyed Queen who was defeated by Malekith with the latter taking the rune of death from the Gloom-Eyed Queen upon her defeat. The other bit of evidence to this is when you get the Lord of Chaos ending when you burn yourself rather than Melina, her other eye opens to reveal a deep purple eye, a color that would be associated with Dusk but also is shockingly similar to the Beast’s Eye which Gurranq/Malekith gives you to hunt down deathroot. The fact that Melina only has one of those eyes and her other is just a “normal” eye could mean that the the beast’s eye is actually the GEQ/Melina’s which has turned to stone after centuries have gone by
I think another thing to note is that “Marina’s Betrayal” is referred to a few times throughout the descriptions in the game but is never actually explicitly stated what her betrayal was. The easy assumption is that her Betrayal was the shattering of the Elden ring but there are some ideas that make this betrayal a much longer plan than just the shattering. This goes along with the idea you had in this video that Marika wants to rid the Lands Between of the Greater Will, possibly starting with the removal of grace from Godfrey and his warriors with the plan for them to return later to kill the Elden Beast once grace has returned to the tarnished (you, the player would be the culmination of that). This theory then continues that rather than Ranni acting alone, Marika actually helped her steal the Rune of Death from Malekith which then lead to the death of her son Godwyn and the death of Empyrean flesh in Ranni herself (this would be the betrayal of Malekith that the Remembrance of the Black Blade refers to). This would then lead into the theory that Melina is one of Marika’s children (probably her last) because Melina states that her mother gave her her purpose at the foot of the Erdtree which could very likely be Marika and that purpose was to be a Maiden to the chosen tarnished and burn the Erdtree in order for the tarnished to kill the Elden Beast once and for all, the culmination of Marika’s plan that spanned probably thousands of years
I know others here have said something similar, but; my theory is that The Lands Between refers to the position that everything is in socially, politically and religiously. Previously, everything was under the rule of Marika and The Greater Will. The Elden Ring was whole and Marika + The Two Fingers had near complete control of not only the lands, but of death itself. The Greater Will was the main force that was worshiped. The Erdtree was essentially the afterlife, where souls go when they die (Unless you were unfortunate enough to have The Dung Eater pay you a visit). It was a very concrete epoch. But then Ranni orchestrated The Night of the Black Knives, Marika destroyed the Elden Ring and everything changed Marika's rule was no longer absolute. Destined Death had been released. The other Outer Gods and their adherents are attempting to wrestle control over the land. Mohg is attempting to rule with the Formless Mother. Dung eater is trying to curse all of humanity for eternity, the Three Fingers are trying to burn everything down to return it all to a state of chaos etc etc. Morgott is trying desperately to defend the Erdtree from the Tarnished. The Erdtree itself is cracking. Everything is now in a state of flux. It is a land that is "between" 2 epochs. The end result of everything is unknown. Who will come out on top, who will rule. Weather or not the Golden Order and the Two Fingers will even survive. The other thing that the lands are between is the previous epoch. The time in which dragons ruled (Miyazaki really has a thing for dragons ruling and then being wiped out and usurped). We know that Dragonlord Placidusax was Elden Lord before the Erdtree came to be. We don't know a whole lot about this previous point in time, but it obviously would be the time period, the epoch, before The Greater Will. TL;DR: The Lands Between refers to everything being in a state of massive change between what was, and what is coming.
My thoughts on Godfrey: His grace was taken from him because he lost a battle against something fighting the Greater Will, but those who adored and respected him spread tales that he defeated everyone and just ran out of worthy opponents. I think we're gonna get some time travel DLC and we'll have to fight him at his absolute peak and WE'LL be that battle he lost.
"Land of Reeds" is also apparently a translation of 'Ashina' -- i.e: the place from Sekiro. So it's at least a reference, and possibly means the Samurai class is an Isekai protagonist(!?)
The thing is, albinauric mounted archers can shoot while their wolf mount run around. All that while sitting on the wolf's back *sideways* with no harness or anything to keep themselves mounted.
@@spearsage thats besides the point though, loretta isnt sitting sideways, she is very clearly gripping the sides of her steed with her legs, and using said muscles informs the rest of her posture.
@@auto1nfanticid3 loretta can't sit sideways cause of all that armor, just wouldn't work, would also make it harder to swing your weapon in both sides if you sit on one side, the archers are just shooting arrows. There's more than one way to plop on top of a horse 🐴 doesn't mean her legs work cause sue sits differently
@@petercottantail7850 in humanoids in real life, in order to ride a horse effectively without laying flat, you need at least your upper legs (hips and thighs). there are real life legless horse riders but they arent paralyzed, they are just missing their lower legs. If we cant say loretta is using her legs based on her animation then we cant even say that seeing a character walk around in the elden ring universe means they can use their legs, it could be a combination of gravity magic and illusion. Furthermore, if we're saying loretta is using some unseen force or magic to stay on her horse when it literally goes vertical then theres nothing to say that that same unknown, unseen force, couldnt let her sit sideways or allow her weapon swinging animation to clip through her armor. if we cant base this somewhat in reality and what we can see represented in the animations there is zero point even talking about it.
The issue with Godfrey may have been his inability to give Marika an Empyrian child. Not that she wanted one as she clearly loved Godwyn but the Greater Will was demanding for a proper host that could house the Elden Ring, with the purpose of replacing Marika. Marika couldn't refuse but used it to her advantage, and then only after siring Ranni as Radagon(in a place that did not like the Greater Will at all and yet making an Empyrian forced to interact with it) did she move to marry Radagon and produce Melania and Miquella as "proper" Empyrians. I don't think it was a coincidence that she recalled Radagon so late. Marika had no plans of being replaced or bowing to the greater will further (which is why she removed the true death rune from the elden ring, and also removed Radagon the absolute faith driven lawful part of her that also contained the great rune of the unborn that Radagon gifted his Renala before leaving her. Marika had no use for a fine or rebirth as she didn't want to die or be changed. She very well stopped time in a sense.) Perhaps after removing the rune of true death and other trespasses the Greater Will wanted someone else to control better, summoning in a new age.
The name, the land between, can also be compared to how china calls itself, the middle kingdom. By which meaning the center of the world, or atleast the world that matters - read, playable.
I think the land between is between the world of magic and the normal world. When human or natural enemies die their body is left. When supernatural enemies (including Tarnished, who are undead) die, their body disintegrates. What is especially interesting is that when you defeat Morgott he looks human as he dies.
God the whole don't trust the mermaid thing just makes me think how cursed the game would be if there was water combat the whole giant shrimp and crabs are fucking bad enough I just picture you walk up to a bunch of singing mermaids and then there bodies are just the lures of giant fish monsters
Great video once again Natis, I had a theory I haven't seen discussed. Nothing crazy, but I believe that the maiden you pick up the note writing finger from in the very beginning is actually the maiden that was paired with your character. Her death was probably a murder which I think is one eyed horse gift waifu's doing since it conveniently get her an in with you. So in essence, we weren't maidenless. Idk it's just a theory I had thought I'd share
I think its varre because he immediately knows we are maiden less upon meeting him, I think the followers of Mohg do that on purpose to disillusion the tarnished with the golden order
I actually like both of these theories here: For Melina: She takes on our Maiden's mantle - perhaps something that she wanted to do to accelerate her own agenda of fixing the Elden Ring, so it seems like she has a motive. For Varré: He does seem to know that you are maidenless as soon as you meet him, but why would he know this? Starting to smell a bit like a who dunnit!
Thanks for the inspiration in this comment thread all, ending up making a video about this! Sorry Levi don't you made it into the credits! Next time :)
Marika' s seal raises all "spiritual" stats, while Radagon' s seal raises all stats tied to body and strength. There are no stats that BOTH seals raise: Marika is the heavenly soul, while Radagon is her earthly body. The two can separate, but not for long. That' s why Radagon went back.
Ra- Egyptian god of sun and creation (the erdtree is the land betweens sun)--- Dagon- ancient middle eastern fish god- often portrayed with a tail almost identical to the one near Godwyns corpse-
Plus, it is stated it fell from a temple in the sky. And Farum Azula is meant to be in the sky, adding further credence that the ruin fragments came from there
Just a small correction, the "Great Tree" IS the Erdtree, not a separate thing. It's actually a translation error. Great video tho! I don't see many people go this deep into the lore!
14:34 small correction: Krakens are Nordic/Norse. The whole "release the kraken" thing was popularized by Clash of the Titans which was about Greek mythology -- but Krakens are not from Greek mythology
I think it's a lot easier to "understand" the nature of The Lands Between if you think of it as not a *Physical* plane, but an *Ideal* plane -- that is, a realm where characters representing ideologies and ideas can be pitted against each other to see which "outer influence" ultimately prevails. The Outer Gods aren't so much "Gods" but representatives of different stories/genres, each vying to influence THIS Grand Storyline the most. It's sort of like a cosmic game of Dungeons and Dragons, where the DM (Marika) decided to flip the table over and refused to run the game any more, so everyone's just having a free-for-all over the campaign. Really, Elden Ring is just one enormous glorious allegory for the "factions" that come into conflict over video games; from Lore Fundamentalists that refuse to entertain *any* fan theories that "go against the devs' intentions" - to the Invaders of the Volcano Academy completely disregarding the "lore" of the Two Fingers (aka GRRM and Miyazaki) in favor of defeating every challenger that continues to "live in death" until they give up and stop playing their "little game." I *adore* it for that, and every day I spend unpacking the story is as fun as playing the actual game, because it's so layered and dense!
Arent the Stars from the underground city, not because they where imprisoned down there, for their "heresy" against the two finger and the greater will!? The Erdtree reminds alot like the Celtic and Nordic Tree
The underground cities were banished down there by the greater will, the stars I’m not sure where they’re from but I know there used to be a third underground city at the deeproot depths before it was destroyed by Astel and had its stars taken by them
The production quality of this video was absolutely amazing! I totally enjoyed it & look forward to whatever Elden Ring content you decide to upload next!
With regards to Marika being Radagon, the opening cutscene also shows them both hammering at the Elden Ring, them changing between the flashes of light. Also , Anor Londo, the ending o in Londo would be the Sindarin imperative conjugation. I think a good translation for Anor Londo is “Harbor the sun!”
I can totally believe that the endings are actually prequels to the different Soulsborne games. When I first talked to Dung Eater ingame and he talks about how he can curse people and those people will give birth to cursed children, it instantly reminded me of Dark Souls. Makes me wonder if his Curse Rune might be what created the world of the Dark Souls.
7:40 yes, you leave the physical world to the lands between and from there you can return to the Erdtree. It still works as a purgatory if the Erdtree is the actual afterlife.
I really like those videos narrated by charismatic voices who can really put across the sentence structures with a variety of expressive, timely, flowing cadences.
Farum Azula used to be home to the dragons (when Plasidusax was the first Elden lord), and was situated in the middle of the map above the ocean/between all the divine towers. It was blown away to the right where it is now (most likely by the big tornado/hurricane thingy). And that is now why it’s slowly crumbling. Can’t remember where this lore is in game but I remember reading about it. Makes sense too cuz when it was in the middle of all the lands and the tornado thingy first hit it, that is probably when all the ruins started to fall. If it was always where it was now, then it seems unlikely that all the pieces could have fallen from such a far away location to where we find them now. When it was in the middle of the divine towers before it got blown away, the dragons lived there and picked it because they could quite easily and quickly see and travel to pretty much all other parts of the lands between. This is why they ruled for so long, cuz they had such a good central location and could quickly find out and travel to whatever potential enemies needed dealing with. Who or whatever conjured up the tornado/storm thing that blew it away marked the initial downfall of the dragon reign. Iirc, maybe it was the giants or the giants fire god. Or maybe they were allies and it was some other force, I can’t remember lol.
I too assumed the lands between represented some kind of purgatory/afterlife. I stand by it, i think the souls returning to the erdtree represents a false heaven, and that people only want to return there due to the Greater Will's influence as described in "Law of Regression" implying that theres more than the black and white of heaven/hell in their concept of this afterlife. Altho I think its intended also to be open to interpretation, hence the vagueness Also I dig the upside down tree concept! It reminds me of a rather odd chapter of the Bhagavad gita, talking about a tree with its root in heaven and its leaves and branches appearing in our world. Edit: ALSO mercury and silver are related in the history of alchemy, note that mercury is often referred to as quicksilver. So i think the interpretations you presented work either way you see it haha
That’s how you pronounce Eochaid? Oh boy I was off, also do you think the lands of reeds could be sekiros japan, or maybe even specifically Ashina as I think Ashina actually means reeds
They reference past games in all their titles, I always love searching for them but I fear they are simply that, references, nothing set in stone says these games are connected but in the same breath nothing says they aren't, thats the fun in these games, creating your own headcannon from the loose lore they give you
Can I just say I'm so glad that you used 'mangum opus' instead of 'masterpiece'. So many utilize masterpiece for any good thing, when it's really a quite useful term to identify the work that proved one has gained the skill of a master. Dark Souls is undoubtedly FromSoft's masterpiece. Whether or not their other games are great or not, they are certainly well received. But I 100% agree that if only one game is going to be crowned as a Great Work, it should be Elden Ring. Thou'rt touched by grace, and beloved by fortune.
had nobody noticed that the stars in Radahn's death cutscene are UNDERNEATH THE ERDTREE? this may be further evidince that the lands between are upside down
how is the seedbed curse = omen curse theory in the underground section. that's pretty explicitly his motivation and the game doesn't shy around it given that his entire character revolves around being an omen fanboy that wants to turn others in to omens
Here's a bit of speculation regarding the naming of the Lands Between. There are separate factions essentially trying to displace each other: Marika and her children; and the powers that were in place before she came along and knocked the previous order down. The region may be essentially similar to a rope in a game of Tug-of-War. (Mind you, I've never played this or any other game by FromSoftware, and I'm unfamiliar with Martin's work, so I'm basing this theory strictly off of lore videos. But I do think it makes sense.)
I can’t speak for Natan, but for me it seems your mic mix needs some EQ to add clarity for the speed of your voiceover, it is hard to make out a decent portion of your words.
@@natiscool Pretty much what Jarrett said, I think you either have to change the way you speak , or flatten the range of your recording so that the loudest word in a sentence isn't too far off from the quietest word in terms of volume. I believe 01:47 illustrates my point nicely, "ICEBERG" is very loud while "ACtions" is quiet, the same applies especially to the next sentence, "RADAGON" is very loud, while "MARika" (especially the "ika" part) is very quiet. Hope this helps.
That's really informative, thanks a lot! Looking back I definitely agree with this, will have a look and see what I can do. Hopefully we'll have improvements in the next video
I like how Smoughtown theorized the Marika/Radagon situation, that Marika was the original, but upon her ascension to vessel of the Elden Ring, Radagon came into existence, making them a Rebus, an alchemical concept of man and woman as one body housing two beings, Radagon even is implied to have some relation to the Fire Giants, the greatest rival Marika had had up until that point, perhaps the Greater Will infusing her with her enemy's essence to strengthen the whole, but while the toils and hardship Marika endured chipped away at her Faith, Radagon only became more and more entrenched in his, irrevocably schisming their desires
Worth noting elphael where we find Loretta is a place for the lost and helpless explaining why two albinurics have different halves of the medallion and why Loretta was there.
The theory that Farum Azula is the sky temple make sense, however there are large differences in some of the fallen ruins and the ruins of Farum Azula as has been pointed out by some other creators. The ruins found in limgrave and other areas are empty, however the ruins in Farum Azula that are similar to those in Limgrave, have the skeletons of the beastman embedded into the sides of their ruins.
I think that's a little too specific to not be related to upcoming DLC; possible theory? Rusted Anchor's description: "one boat alone was said to have been left behind," along with the translations on the concept map suggesting dangers with sea faring. Lying mermaids? Giant serpent? A kraken? How else are we supposed to get to the Badlands... unless Elden Ring: Sailor's Grave Edition?
Something to mention about the word “numen” is that it is a Latin word for “divinity”, which isn’t obvious if you don’t know Latin, but makes a lot of sense.
Love icebergs but not to sound negative or anything, shouldn’t you have waited a little bit to see if dlc content would be announced. It could change a lot of this information in the future making some of the information on here obsolete. Would you remake the video if it does or just make a new updated one in the future.
Great question, I'm planning on potentially make this a multiple part video if people enjoy it! Slowly building up and discovering more theories or merging other icebergs!
Who knows how long that will take. We're still in the middle of covid plus Fromsoft ain't like other companies that cut out content so are able to quickly whip up dlc. Don't expect any announcements till the end of the year for next year
@@jeambeam3173 This just isn’t true. There were a ton of cut quests in the original trilogy especially dark souls 1 and 2. ER outsold the entire trilogy though so I’m hoping Bandai Namco gives Fromsoft all of the resources they could imagine now that they tripled their estimated sales and counting.
Theory for why Marika destroyed the Elden Ring: She did it because it is demanded by the Greater Will itself. It is represented by the two Fundamentals: Law of Causality and Law of Regression. I understand them as diverge and converge. The Elden Ring was destroyed and scattered: diverge. Later a Tarnished collected them and became Elden Lord: converge. She did it not only to further life but to serve the Greater Will in Order to create an even stronger Lord by the strategy of Fundamentalism.
The fact that the lore is this ambiguous and deep is testament to RR incests contributions to the development of the story telling. Fromsoft made a great play using him for the content
I don’t know how anybody could argue that this is not in the same universe as dark souls you even have a character and armor from “the land of reeds” which is probably an area of the world that takes place in the world of Sekiro and in that game there are two western men that are probably from either the lands between or another DS kingdom. Not to mention the armor the weapons, the references the items the characters there’s no way that these aren’t Cannon. Even my lizard brain connects all these games together.
Ok so there is a theory I am thinking about..what if we are going back/forward in time to the round tablehold? The round table hold is not on any island? So where is this roundtable hold situated? Every person who travels to roundtable hold goes back/forward in time..We know that a similar looking round tablehold is in the capital..And when the Erdtree burnt the round table also burnt..So it should be somewhere near the Erdtree but the roundtable hold is very far away to the sea and even tho Melina sent us to the roundtable hold but why she never appears in the round table hold? ...Well this is somewhat my assumption..no one needs to agree with me..
I agree. Its the same as Dragon Lord Placidussax's arena. iMO his arena is literally a Dragon Roundtable hold. A Meeting place for the vassals/knights whatever of the Elden Lord.
@@darkhobo I am thinking about more theories..but there is one question hitting me real hard...how the heck Alexandar ended up in Farum Azula? We have been transported to Azula by the Flame of the Fire Gaints..but how did Alexandar went there..Then this thought came to my mind that Melina actually never died in the Fire Gaint Flame..the flames some how connected to Farum Azula (Alexandar was telling us that he will go to the Mountain top of the Gaints)..she transported to Farum Azula to defeat Maliketh and obtain the Destined Death?! Or she wanted to send us their to defeat Maliketh for her? I am sure she is very much connected with destined death so it is a possibility. Man this game has so many mysteries...
@@zigzagto644 well Melina tells us herself that she died and was burned long ago, so I dont think she is "alive" I personally think her spirit is inside Torrents whistle. Thats a really good question I never thought about. How did Alexander ended up in Faram Azula? One connection I can think of is the Faram Azula Beastmen use shields made out of ceramic pottery shards. But thats all I really can think of.
@@darkhobo I am certain of it that Flames of Mountain top of Gaints somehow connected to Farum Azula..if you talk to Alexandar on the Lava mountain at Altus Pleatou he will say that he will travel to the mountain top of gaints. And he will also talk about the voice of flames.
Woah those runes... "Do not listen to the songs of the mermaid" brings to mind all the zombie npc's at the beach walking in a giant herd toward the ocean, where you can see a ship half sinking... that is so cool....
"the land between" could also be named as such because it's litterally the place where a bunch of mortals from many lands and even cosmic outers gods fight for this place, for some reason. it's the between of planes, and country, seeking dominion.
The Silver mentioned that was used to make the Albinorics could actually be Mercury. The Silvertears you see in game could be made of Quicksilver, which is mercury.
When you realize the erdtree is the tool of cosmic outer god basically literally eating bodies and souls and the guy named loathesome dung eater who defiles corpses is actually...the good guy?
In the Sofia River, there are TALL stone pillars, I almost feel they are linked to the ones that you see from DS2. The pillars though to come to an end, so wondering if those are the tips of the ones from DS2, these strange pillars are also in Bloodbourne, and I think DS1 and Demonsouls, but I never really played those ones. Just figured that was worth pointing out.
Hello everyone! I hope you enjoy this iceberg!
I can't get my head out of Elden Ring lore - and since it takes me a little over a month to make these videos, a lot has deepened in the Elden Ring lore discovery.
What's everyone's thoughts on me making more parts to this iceberg? Potentially making growing its way to be a massive iceberg over time. Of course I want to work on other content too, but Elden Ring at the moment has me hooked!
I’d love for you to make multiple videos for Elden Ring as more discoveries are made. Then you could make a compilation of all the parts once you were finished. I see a lot of iceberg channels do that and I tend to watch them.
Maybe make additions as discoveries/DLC are made
Hey. You missed to add “ranni r34” on the sky
@@bigmacgaming5019 LMAAAAO r34 community never fails to impress me with A. How fast they get to work and B. How fucked up 30% of their work is ahaha
@@mickzero fr bro
Lmao, Hyetta as the first fire keeper is so far-fetched it makes me think that the person who theorized it has been consumed by MADNESS.
"So far-fetched"
Whatever beliefs lets you sleep at night.
@@XDarkGreyX elden ring and dark souls aren’t connected my guy
Yup One big hole in that story is that we burn her eyes out and in ds3 we give black eyes to fier keeper
Well i duno if it's connected to DS1 or DS3 But the royal dead armor is defently is King Vendrick, hell the armor even have he's loincloth
After I finished the game, I felt that "Lands Between" stood for "between the influence of Outer Gods", who constantly thrive for dominance over the Lands Between. Just an interpretation that was natural to me, I don't think there's a right or wrong meaning for this name!
its just a name bruh
@@4pfBulmond nothing is just a name. Language always carries deeper meaning
@@4pfBulmond For sure it is. It is also the topic of part of the video.
@@4pfBulmond is this your first from game?
All i know is it sounds like Things Betwixt from Ds2, proving it's a sequel to Dark Souls 2
Also keep in mind that your journey through the lands between ends up advancing from spring to summer, from summer to fall, and then from fall to winter. To me that's also circumstantial evidence that TLB represents the afterlife.
To support your afterlife theory in the opening Godfrey says "Arise now Ye Tarnished, Ye dead, who yet live."
More likely that it’s limbo. Constant unending death. I think that everything in elden ring is just happening in reality though because as you play you’ll learn more about death and how it’s affected
Is caelid summer because that shit is hot lol
@@jlara7238 I think Caelid and Liurnia are both aspects of summer IMO. Liurnia could go either way between spring and summer. Altus is obv fall and Mountaintops of the Giants is winter.
@@LiftYagami Fair, yeah limbo works too
Fun fact: the samurai armor set says it’s from the Land of Reeds, which in Japanese translates to Ashina, the same place Sekiro takes place. Meaning this is all in the same universe.
Damn Ive seen alot of videos on this game and NO ONE has said anything about this, nice
@@adonis8293 thanks man! I’m a low level Sekiro snob so I chose the samurai. Read the description and make the connection. Cool little detail no one I’ve seen mention.
@@adonis8293 if you played Sekiro you’d notice some mentions of reeds. Even in gameplay you do literally fight a few bosses in a field of reeds. I believe this is a hint that it’s all in the same universe. Or atleast a small cameo.
Elden Ring...the best game ever made...touches on Demon Souls through Sekiro. Bloodborne and DS1 through 3. They all are the same fucked up world. Totally brilliant. George RR Martin said maybe one day video games would actually be art...if this is not art...I don't know what is. This game is a masterpiece amongst masterpieces. 11 out of 10. Top score.
Got a soruce? fromsoft isn't particularly fond of the shared universe idea
One thing to note about the St Trina and Miquella theory, the description on the Torch of St. Trina states “The carvings depict St. Trina, but in adult form, somewhat unnervingly.” I have taken this as further confirmation that St. Trina was an alternate name Miquella went by because, as we know, Miquella was cursed to be forever young thus depicting him as an adult would definitely fall under “somewhat unnervingly”
Interesting Linguistic Thing: The name/word Trina is the feminine form of the Latin word Trinus, meaning "three-fold" or "having-three." Considering the dual-god nature of Marika/Radagon, and the close relationship between Malenia and Miquella, I wonder if this "Trina" persona was meant to be a spiritual link between the two? Like the Holy Ghost between the Father and the Son; this is the Saint between the Brother and the Sister.
The amount of lore that was put in this game opens up for so much dlc potential. I can think of 5 dlc opportunities just off my mind
Elden ring is going to be an msg
Massive single player game
Maybe Loretta was a normal human but she was disabled from the legs down like an albinauric. She wanted to help them so badly because she resonated with their disability and so she left for the Haligtree. That would explain 1) why she wanted to help the albinaurics so bad 2) is always on her horse and 3) bleeds red.
She could just like her horse and it’s part of her fighting style
No more like she used to see the horrible stuff the Carriens we're doing to them so she joined the haligtree in defense of the meek and outcast's
There is an amazing video about Miquella by SmoughTown. Part of the video is talking about Loretta and how she came to leave the Carian Manor because of what the Carians were doing to the Albinauricss, why she began to serve Miquella and why she fights so hard for them. Most of the video is pretty well supported by evidence and there's not a lot of baseless speculation ala Hawkshaw. It's a shame we have to kill her.
Albinauric women look more beautiful than the men do and they’re also first generation that weren’t crossbred with mimic tears and frogs. I’m pretty sure she’s also albinauric
has anyone here every ridden a horse? it requires a log of leg strength.
additionally, Loretta has several leg animations she does as she controls her steed. her legs aren't useless.
Tell that to Johnny joestar smh
What about latenna riding a wolf?
@@colehouseth2144 he basically soul bonded with that horse like the albinaurics
Albinaurics ride wolves without legs.
Yup , my theory is that she is the latest evolution , free from the shackles of her ancestors.
Godfrey's story is pretty clear, he's a fighter, a warrior. Being told "stop fighting and rule" is something he'd simply never be able to do [to the point that the very creature created to stop his bloodlust was not able to do so], so he and his warriors were merely removed from the Lands Between to do what they knew: Fight, learn, do battle and then return when they were more powerful to be used by Marika.
The amount of cut content in the game is also incredibly interesting.
He did stop fighting and rule though, that's why he has Serosh with him. To curb his bloodlust so he could conduct himself as a lord. He ruled as Marika's first elden lord for a very long time as well, so saying that Serosh was unable to do his job seems unreasonable, especially when we literally see the transformation Godfrey undergoes after killing him.
@@JtotheMeezy How the heck is it unreasonable when we KNOW that, even with Serosh, his bloodlust took over? IT IS PART OF HIS LORE.
At least learn it a bit before talking?
@@AzureRoxe we see his bloodlust take over when he kills Serosh, if he'd lost it before then the lion wouldn't be there as that's his sole job. We literally watch him strip himself of the name of Godfrey mid cutscene. And if you read the lore, Marika stripped him of his grace once he'd defeated all of her enemies. He wasn't simply tossed out because he wouldn't stop fighting, Marika had come to the end of her use for him and his strength.
At the end of the day, we're all making theories trying to figure out the history of this game. People like you and the way you talk are the reason so many people view any fanbase as toxic, because you take any disagreement on lore way too personally and then take unnecessary swings at them. I've learned a lot about the game, hence why I felt comfortable putting my point of view across. Neither I nor anybody else needs some kid like you throwing negativity at them over something that matters this little.
@@AzureRoxe it's been awhile, have you learned a bit?
I'd like to propose an entry for maybe a future iceberg: the cruicible. There is an underlying theme of this serpentile trait coming from the cruicible, wich was where all life was merged in. From the dragons to the god eating serpent and the worship of snakes, the godskins and the power of the cruicible knights having the characteristics of a dragon and later on the mistbegotten inheriting degenerate elements of said serpent-like beings.
Side note: there's also these angelic wings involved in it. Dragons have their wings ofcourse, the cruicible knights can create the wings, the volcano manor has these statues of snakes that have wings and so do the mistbegotten.
34:19
Correction:
The Stormlord is a completely different entity to the Dragonlord, Placidusax.
The Stormlord is linked to Stormveil and the various Ashes of War you can find around there, and used by its warriors.
The Dragonlord is instead linked to lightning and also golden holy power, as seen in the Incantation, Placidusax' Ruin. Likely remnants of the rays of gold he possessed as an Elden Lord.
It is apparent that Godfrey fought the Stormlord, but I don't think there is any direct evidence that he fought the Dragonlord, though it is possible.
Great correction to raise!
When I was writing this script I was definitely under the thought process that Dragonlord Placidusax was infact the Stormlord, with one of the main points for this being that he is physically seen amongst the storms.
Would like to hear your thoughts on what in the Ashes of War hints at a different Storm Lord, here's some other items that could propose a different Stormlord:
The Stormhawk Denh states that its the "Spirit of a fierce hawk that faithfully rendered lifelong service to the old king of Stormveil long ago, when the true storm raged. "
eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Stormhawk+Deenh
The Stormhawk King, found at the end of the Chapel of Anticipation is the "Ashes of a hawk revered by all others as sovereign back in the days when Stormveil's winds still raged like no other. eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/The+Stormhawk+King
This ancient monarch is proud however, refusing to answer anyone's summons."
So the Stormlord king could actually be an eagle, rather than a dragon!
@@natiscool
I believe it's likely the Stormhawk King. Stormhawk Deenh is simply too underpowered imo, but he's probably not too far from what the Stormlord was. It's possible that a lot of the hawks we see around Castle Stormveil are descended from that same legendary being; similar to how the dragons descended from the Ancient Dragons, but no longer have stone scales or red lightning.
After all, it seems Nepheli takes a liking to it, as it reminds her of her first hawk. Being a descendant of Hoarah Loux, she's also a trueborn heir to Limgrave. That same hawk could very well have *actually* been Nepheli Loux's first hawk, depending on how old she is.
Finally, upon completing Nepheli's questline, she announces that she is going to "summon the storm."
That could be giving away that she does, in fact, possess the Storm King.
@@natiscool
Also, looking at Stormhawk King's lore again, it sounds pretty convincing.
"Ashes of a hawk revered by all others as sovereign back in the days when Stormveil's winds still raged like no other."
It could very well have once been the Stormlord, or at least its vassal or beast regent. After all, "beasts are drawn to lords," as we see with Blaidd, Serosh and Maliketh, and their masters.
And now it has, by fate, come under Nepheli's charge.
The Stormlord may have even been an outer god that uses others as its avatars or emissaries. But I think the sovereign hawk is good enough for me lol.
Would like more clarity on all these lords and gods in the DLC, if it comes.
I like the idea that marika shattered the elden ring and sent the tarnished away to give them the freedom and agency to become strong for themselves, for better or worse
The world building designs and game development of Elden Ring is just mind boggling. How big was this team and how long did this all take??
I am just speechless.
Give the other titles a try, you'll love them, perhaps even more
@@Hypnotazia kind of based you automatically assume he cannot possibly have played the other soulsgames based on that comment .
@@rickpeters8204 Yeah, i did. It's the internet, all you've got is assumptions
What amazed me was that George Martin actually wrote the original world for Elden Ring many years ago! It just shows how much effort and how long it takes to make amazing video games!
What's even more impressive is they were developing Sekiro Shadows Die Twice literally at the same time and also developed Elden Ring with 2 years of the pandemic having happened. Fromsoftware has 2 teams that work on separate games normally. Elden Ring started development after The Ringed City dlc from Dark Souls 3
Nepheli being a daughter of Godfrey, or related to him in some way? If not that, then at the very least it implies that the entire tribe Godfrey came from carry loux as a surname.
The hero start says that you’re a descendant of a badlands chieftain and the description of the armor itself says they follow the example of their chieftain Hoarah Loux
I believe she is the daughter of Hoarah Loux, perhaps born before he wed Marika and became Godfrey. I think the most telling evidence is she shares the same last name of Loux.
@@CallOfTheMadMan I don't think she's a daughter, but definitely a descendant. Godrey had been dead a long time before he was resurrected as a tarnished
That is a fair theory as well. I'm not 100% certain how aging works in the world, it seems some characters could be centuries old and barely reflect it
@@CallOfTheMadMan her age doesn't really matter. If she's anything like gideon, the player character, and even hoarah loux, then she was dead when grace was returned to her, and was revived by the erd tree.
I don't think that being an Omen prevents you from returning to the Erdtree as we still get Remembrances from the Omen twins, Morgott and Mohg. This means that their souls also return to the Erdtree to be reborn.
The defiling of the reproductive organs is an interesting idea, though. It makes sense.
There was another theory linking that defilement to something the Headless from Sekiro do to you. They're apparently based on some kind of yokai and rip some kind of soul fragment out of their victims through their anus; which would explain the name "Dung Eater" rather well. It would appear that he devours souls in a similar fashion.
Also, Roderika mentions a cacophony of tortured souls emanating from the Dung Eater, which would also make sense if he's devouring these souls, sealing them within himself to prevent them from returning to the Erdtree.
Then again, the Omen Twins could be an exception, since they are demigods... all demigods are hewn into the Erdtree as Remembrances.
Huh...so, dung eater would mean corpse defiler... this actually makes sense as he talks a lot about defiling corpses, not about eating shit.
This actually makes a lot of sense, so 'Loathsome Dung Eater' comes full circle as an insult rather than a literal description
The curse dung eater was talking about reminds me of the curse talked about in bloodborne with the old hunters
You forgot the albanaurics in the consecrated snowfield. There is also a giant albanaurics there so that shows that it is plausible that Loretta is an albanauric. Especially so that to get to the actual Loretta you have to go through a town protected by the albanaurics.
I do like the theory, but she bleeds red, unlike Albinaurics
Elden ring what a utterly breathtaking Masterpiece of a game.... having spent over 200 hrs play Elden ring there are so many subtle and very easy to miss references and connections to previous games.....
One of my favorite is the item description for (rivers of blood) kantana
Weapon of okina swordsman from the land of reeds
a cursed weapon that has failed countless men.
When mohg the Lord of blood first felt Okina's sword and Madness upon his flesh he had a proposal to offer okina the life of a demon who's thirst would never go unsated... definitely sounds like a reference to sekiro with the demon of hatred
I would love if we got a book or a guide that explained the full lore. It would be super dense material but I'd love to read it
One Miyazaki to rule them all
One Miyazaki to find them
One Miyazaki to bring them all
And in Dark Souls bind them
*I see you.*
I see (YOU DIED) nevermind
the story is an excuse for all the games and game mechanics to be explained away. Literally even leveling is explained away through growing stronger in runes or grace. But to reach new levels of strength you have to acquire more grace either from more enemies or more challenging ones.
I think one thing that you didn’t touch on at all is the Dusk/Gloom-Eyed Queen (referred to as both in various item descriptions) who was the leader of the godskins but she’s never actually mentioned by anyone in the game. I’ve seen a bunch of theories about her with one of those being that Melina is either the Gloom-Eyed Queen or maybe the daughter of her with the primary evidence being that Melina knows where the rune of death is (you get sent here after burning the Erdtree but you also do if you burn yourself so who knows) and theoretically, very few would know where Malekith was located but one of those would be the Gloom-Eyed Queen who was defeated by Malekith with the latter taking the rune of death from the Gloom-Eyed Queen upon her defeat. The other bit of evidence to this is when you get the Lord of Chaos ending when you burn yourself rather than Melina, her other eye opens to reveal a deep purple eye, a color that would be associated with Dusk but also is shockingly similar to the Beast’s Eye which Gurranq/Malekith gives you to hunt down deathroot. The fact that Melina only has one of those eyes and her other is just a “normal” eye could mean that the the beast’s eye is actually the GEQ/Melina’s which has turned to stone after centuries have gone by
I think another thing to note is that “Marina’s Betrayal” is referred to a few times throughout the descriptions in the game but is never actually explicitly stated what her betrayal was. The easy assumption is that her Betrayal was the shattering of the Elden ring but there are some ideas that make this betrayal a much longer plan than just the shattering. This goes along with the idea you had in this video that Marika wants to rid the Lands Between of the Greater Will, possibly starting with the removal of grace from Godfrey and his warriors with the plan for them to return later to kill the Elden Beast once grace has returned to the tarnished (you, the player would be the culmination of that). This theory then continues that rather than Ranni acting alone, Marika actually helped her steal the Rune of Death from Malekith which then lead to the death of her son Godwyn and the death of Empyrean flesh in Ranni herself (this would be the betrayal of Malekith that the Remembrance of the Black Blade refers to). This would then lead into the theory that Melina is one of Marika’s children (probably her last) because Melina states that her mother gave her her purpose at the foot of the Erdtree which could very likely be Marika and that purpose was to be a Maiden to the chosen tarnished and burn the Erdtree in order for the tarnished to kill the Elden Beast once and for all, the culmination of Marika’s plan that spanned probably thousands of years
I know others here have said something similar, but; my theory is that The Lands Between refers to the position that everything is in socially, politically and religiously. Previously, everything was under the rule of Marika and The Greater Will. The Elden Ring was whole and Marika + The Two Fingers had near complete control of not only the lands, but of death itself. The Greater Will was the main force that was worshiped. The Erdtree was essentially the afterlife, where souls go when they die (Unless you were unfortunate enough to have The Dung Eater pay you a visit). It was a very concrete epoch. But then Ranni orchestrated The Night of the Black Knives, Marika destroyed the Elden Ring and everything changed
Marika's rule was no longer absolute. Destined Death had been released. The other Outer Gods and their adherents are attempting to wrestle control over the land. Mohg is attempting to rule with the Formless Mother. Dung eater is trying to curse all of humanity for eternity, the Three Fingers are trying to burn everything down to return it all to a state of chaos etc etc. Morgott is trying desperately to defend the Erdtree from the Tarnished. The Erdtree itself is cracking. Everything is now in a state of flux. It is a land that is "between" 2 epochs. The end result of everything is unknown. Who will come out on top, who will rule. Weather or not the Golden Order and the Two Fingers will even survive. The other thing that the lands are between is the previous epoch. The time in which dragons ruled (Miyazaki really has a thing for dragons ruling and then being wiped out and usurped). We know that Dragonlord Placidusax was Elden Lord before the Erdtree came to be. We don't know a whole lot about this previous point in time, but it obviously would be the time period, the epoch, before The Greater Will.
TL;DR: The Lands Between refers to everything being in a state of massive change between what was, and what is coming.
My thoughts on Godfrey:
His grace was taken from him because he lost a battle against something fighting the Greater Will, but those who adored and respected him spread tales that he defeated everyone and just ran out of worthy opponents.
I think we're gonna get some time travel DLC and we'll have to fight him at his absolute peak and WE'LL be that battle he lost.
Hope we can fight the lion this time
@@gibby3767 Maybe him and the lion?
@@orpheus9098 yea duo fight, they already had lion like enemies in elden ring
He lost his grace right after defeating "the storm lord"
Yes i need Godfrey with phase 2 Godfrey please.
"Land of Reeds" is also apparently a translation of 'Ashina' -- i.e: the place from Sekiro.
So it's at least a reference, and possibly means the Samurai class is an Isekai protagonist(!?)
Oh I thought it was just a literal stand in for Japan
Damn, the blazing bull really hitted me so hard that I seitched games
Love your iceberg coverages
19:50 "we never see loretta using her legs"
*shows animation of loretta holding onto her horse with nothing but her legs*
The thing is, albinauric mounted archers can shoot while their wolf mount run around. All that while sitting on the wolf's back *sideways* with no harness or anything to keep themselves mounted.
@@spearsage thats besides the point though, loretta isnt sitting sideways, she is very clearly gripping the sides of her steed with her legs, and using said muscles informs the rest of her posture.
@@auto1nfanticid3 loretta can't sit sideways cause of all that armor, just wouldn't work, would also make it harder to swing your weapon in both sides if you sit on one side, the archers are just shooting arrows. There's more than one way to plop on top of a horse 🐴 doesn't mean her legs work cause sue sits differently
@@petercottantail7850 in humanoids in real life, in order to ride a horse effectively without laying flat, you need at least your upper legs (hips and thighs). there are real life legless horse riders but they arent paralyzed, they are just missing their lower legs. If we cant say loretta is using her legs based on her animation then we cant even say that seeing a character walk around in the elden ring universe means they can use their legs, it could be a combination of gravity magic and illusion. Furthermore, if we're saying loretta is using some unseen force or magic to stay on her horse when it literally goes vertical then theres nothing to say that that same unknown, unseen force, couldnt let her sit sideways or allow her weapon swinging animation to clip through her armor. if we cant base this somewhat in reality and what we can see represented in the animations there is zero point even talking about it.
The issue with Godfrey may have been his inability to give Marika an Empyrian child. Not that she wanted one as she clearly loved Godwyn but the Greater Will was demanding for a proper host that could house the Elden Ring, with the purpose of replacing Marika.
Marika couldn't refuse but used it to her advantage, and then only after siring Ranni as Radagon(in a place that did not like the Greater Will at all and yet making an Empyrian forced to interact with it) did she move to marry Radagon and produce Melania and Miquella as "proper" Empyrians. I don't think it was a coincidence that she recalled Radagon so late. Marika had no plans of being replaced or bowing to the greater will further (which is why she removed the true death rune from the elden ring, and also removed Radagon the absolute faith driven lawful part of her that also contained the great rune of the unborn that Radagon gifted his Renala before leaving her. Marika had no use for a fine or rebirth as she didn't want to die or be changed. She very well stopped time in a sense.) Perhaps after removing the rune of true death and other trespasses the Greater Will wanted someone else to control better, summoning in a new age.
The name, the land between, can also be compared to how china calls itself, the middle kingdom. By which meaning the center of the world, or atleast the world that matters - read, playable.
I believe japan also is called the land between.
Scrolling through my home page I see ICEBERG and ELDEN RING and got excited. What have you done to me.
“Numen” might partially be a nod to Numenor, though it’s more likely to be from the Latin word numen, which means divine or godly.
Great connection! I definitely think that the Latin connections would be the greater influence here too!
I think the land between is between the world of magic and the normal world. When human or natural enemies die their body is left. When supernatural enemies (including Tarnished, who are undead) die, their body disintegrates. What is especially interesting is that when you defeat Morgott he looks human as he dies.
But, Morgott disintegrates in his father's hands (in Godfrey's hand). I guess Morgott just took a long time to die after we defeat him.
God the whole don't trust the mermaid thing just makes me think how cursed the game would be if there was water combat the whole giant shrimp and crabs are fucking bad enough I just picture you walk up to a bunch of singing mermaids and then there bodies are just the lures of giant fish monsters
Dmc4 had a boss very similar to that named Bael
Great video once again Natis, I had a theory I haven't seen discussed. Nothing crazy, but I believe that the maiden you pick up the note writing finger from in the very beginning is actually the maiden that was paired with your character. Her death was probably a murder which I think is one eyed horse gift waifu's doing since it conveniently get her an in with you. So in essence, we weren't maidenless. Idk it's just a theory I had thought I'd share
I always assumed it was Varre because he’s right outside, and his order requires maiden blood. Although, you could be right.
I think its varre because he immediately knows we are maiden less upon meeting him, I think the followers of Mohg do that on purpose to disillusion the tarnished with the golden order
I actually like both of these theories here:
For Melina:
She takes on our Maiden's mantle - perhaps something that she wanted to do to accelerate her own agenda of fixing the Elden Ring, so it seems like she has a motive.
For Varré:
He does seem to know that you are maidenless as soon as you meet him, but why would he know this?
Starting to smell a bit like a who dunnit!
Thanks for the inspiration in this comment thread all, ending up making a video about this! Sorry Levi don't you made it into the credits! Next time :)
Marika' s seal raises all "spiritual" stats, while Radagon' s seal raises all stats tied to body and strength. There are no stats that BOTH seals raise: Marika is the heavenly soul, while Radagon is her earthly body. The two can separate, but not for long. That' s why Radagon went back.
Wonderful as always to see a new iceberg from you!
I think my favourite detail is that each ending leads to a different fromsoft game, it's so cool!!
Loretta's altered armor states that after she found out she's an Albinuric, she left the Carians for the Halig Tree
Where does it say that? All it says is that she looked for a haven for the albinaurics not that she was one
@@dmitrilockhart6016 I think it’s mostly a theory. Look at her shield description
Ra- Egyptian god of sun and creation (the erdtree is the land betweens sun)--- Dagon- ancient middle eastern fish god- often portrayed with a tail almost identical to the one near Godwyns corpse-
The Ruin Fragment most likely talks about Farum Azula, it was a temple/chapel for dragon worship or someting like that.
Plus, it is stated it fell from a temple in the sky. And Farum Azula is meant to be in the sky, adding further credence that the ruin fragments came from there
Just a small correction, the "Great Tree" IS the Erdtree, not a separate thing. It's actually a translation error.
Great video tho! I don't see many people go this deep into the lore!
bro if that correction is real, man THATS a major mistake beyond even Ranni "unclear" lines on her ending.
@@joaofaria7404 hes correct it's a mistaken translation from Japanese version
14:34 small correction: Krakens are Nordic/Norse. The whole "release the kraken" thing was popularized by Clash of the Titans which was about Greek mythology -- but Krakens are not from Greek mythology
I think it's a lot easier to "understand" the nature of The Lands Between if you think of it as not a *Physical* plane, but an *Ideal* plane -- that is, a realm where characters representing ideologies and ideas can be pitted against each other to see which "outer influence" ultimately prevails. The Outer Gods aren't so much "Gods" but representatives of different stories/genres, each vying to influence THIS Grand Storyline the most. It's sort of like a cosmic game of Dungeons and Dragons, where the DM (Marika) decided to flip the table over and refused to run the game any more, so everyone's just having a free-for-all over the campaign.
Really, Elden Ring is just one enormous glorious allegory for the "factions" that come into conflict over video games; from Lore Fundamentalists that refuse to entertain *any* fan theories that "go against the devs' intentions" - to the Invaders of the Volcano Academy completely disregarding the "lore" of the Two Fingers (aka GRRM and Miyazaki) in favor of defeating every challenger that continues to "live in death" until they give up and stop playing their "little game." I *adore* it for that, and every day I spend unpacking the story is as fun as playing the actual game, because it's so layered and dense!
I thought that the ruins all over limgrave are parts of Farum Azula. The version we visit exists outside of time.
yea they are weird he didnt say it?
I love that you are using Witcher 3 music in the background perfectly sets the tone.
Arent the Stars from the underground city, not because they where imprisoned down there, for their "heresy" against the two finger and the greater will!?
The Erdtree reminds alot like the Celtic and Nordic Tree
It is based off of Yggdrasil
The underground cities were banished down there by the greater will, the stars I’m not sure where they’re from but I know there used to be a third underground city at the deeproot depths before it was destroyed by Astel and had its stars taken by them
The production quality of this video was absolutely amazing! I totally enjoyed it & look forward to whatever Elden Ring content you decide to upload next!
With regards to Marika being Radagon, the opening cutscene also shows them both hammering at the Elden Ring, them changing between the flashes of light.
Also , Anor Londo, the ending o in Londo would be the Sindarin imperative conjugation. I think a good translation for Anor Londo is “Harbor the sun!”
Thank you for putting this together this game is a beautiful work of art and I haven't seen anything like it in at least 10 years.
30 seconds wasted explaining the concept of an iceberg in 2022. 10/10 best video, no lazy, wow, such good
I can totally believe that the endings are actually prequels to the different Soulsborne games. When I first talked to Dung Eater ingame and he talks about how he can curse people and those people will give birth to cursed children, it instantly reminded me of Dark Souls. Makes me wonder if his Curse Rune might be what created the world of the Dark Souls.
7:40 yes, you leave the physical world to the lands between and from there you can return to the Erdtree. It still works as a purgatory if the Erdtree is the actual afterlife.
I really like those videos narrated by charismatic voices who can really put across the sentence structures with a variety of expressive, timely, flowing cadences.
Farum Azula used to be home to the dragons (when Plasidusax was the first Elden lord), and was situated in the middle of the map above the ocean/between all the divine towers.
It was blown away to the right where it is now (most likely by the big tornado/hurricane thingy). And that is now why it’s slowly crumbling. Can’t remember where this lore is in game but I remember reading about it. Makes sense too cuz when it was in the middle of all the lands and the tornado thingy first hit it, that is probably when all the ruins started to fall. If it was always where it was now, then it seems unlikely that all the pieces could have fallen from such a far away location to where we find them now.
When it was in the middle of the divine towers before it got blown away, the dragons lived there and picked it because they could quite easily and quickly see and travel to pretty much all other parts of the lands between. This is why they ruled for so long, cuz they had such a good central location and could quickly find out and travel to whatever potential enemies needed dealing with. Who or whatever conjured up the tornado/storm thing that blew it away marked the initial downfall of the dragon reign. Iirc, maybe it was the giants or the giants fire god. Or maybe they were allies and it was some other force, I can’t remember lol.
Isn’t all of crumbling farum azula placidusaxes arena
Waited for an Elden ring iceberg from your channel. Did not disappoint. Awesome video!
Excellent analysis! Thank you for taking the time to craft this vid.
I too assumed the lands between represented some kind of purgatory/afterlife.
I stand by it, i think the souls returning to the erdtree represents a false heaven, and that people only want to return there due to the Greater Will's influence as described in "Law of Regression" implying that theres more than the black and white of heaven/hell in their concept of this afterlife. Altho I think its intended also to be open to interpretation, hence the vagueness
Also
I dig the upside down tree concept! It reminds me of a rather odd chapter of the Bhagavad gita, talking about a tree with its root in heaven and its leaves and branches appearing in our world.
Edit: ALSO mercury and silver are related in the history of alchemy, note that mercury is often referred to as quicksilver. So i think the interpretations you presented work either way you see it haha
I really respect how you shout out everyone you got the info from
Heheyyy Never been this early- anyways into the I C E B E R G
That’s how you pronounce Eochaid? Oh boy I was off, also do you think the lands of reeds could be sekiros japan, or maybe even specifically Ashina as I think Ashina actually means reeds
They reference past games in all their titles, I always love searching for them but I fear they are simply that, references, nothing set in stone says these games are connected but in the same breath nothing says they aren't, thats the fun in these games, creating your own headcannon from the loose lore they give you
Can I just say I'm so glad that you used 'mangum opus' instead of 'masterpiece'. So many utilize masterpiece for any good thing, when it's really a quite useful term to identify the work that proved one has gained the skill of a master. Dark Souls is undoubtedly FromSoft's masterpiece. Whether or not their other games are great or not, they are certainly well received. But I 100% agree that if only one game is going to be crowned as a Great Work, it should be Elden Ring.
Thou'rt touched by grace, and beloved by fortune.
Sekiro is the masterpiece
Man. I worship Vaati but this might be the best elden ring video I’ve seen so far. Kudos!
had nobody noticed that the stars in Radahn's death cutscene are UNDERNEATH THE ERDTREE? this may be further evidince that the lands between are upside down
how is the seedbed curse = omen curse theory in the underground section. that's pretty explicitly his motivation and the game doesn't shy around it given that his entire character revolves around being an omen fanboy that wants to turn others in to omens
the ancient cistern theme always makes me happy
Here's a bit of speculation regarding the naming of the Lands Between. There are separate factions essentially trying to displace each other: Marika and her children; and the powers that were in place before she came along and knocked the previous order down. The region may be essentially similar to a rope in a game of Tug-of-War. (Mind you, I've never played this or any other game by FromSoftware, and I'm unfamiliar with Martin's work, so I'm basing this theory strictly off of lore videos. But I do think it makes sense.)
Man I hate how you master your audio but your content is way too good to pass up lul
Thanks for keeping on watching.! What about my audio don't you like? I'm always looking to improve! :)
I can’t speak for Natan, but for me it seems your mic mix needs some EQ to add clarity for the speed of your voiceover, it is hard to make out a decent portion of your words.
@@natiscool Pretty much what Jarrett said, I think you either have to change the way you speak , or flatten the range of your recording so that the loudest word in a sentence isn't too far off from the quietest word in terms of volume. I believe 01:47 illustrates my point nicely, "ICEBERG" is very loud while "ACtions" is quiet, the same applies especially to the next sentence, "RADAGON" is very loud, while "MARika" (especially the "ika" part) is very quiet. Hope this helps.
That's really informative, thanks a lot! Looking back I definitely agree with this, will have a look and see what I can do.
Hopefully we'll have improvements in the next video
@@natiscool personally I think it's fine but I'm a native speaker with a few aussie/nz friends, so I'm used to that twang😂
I like how Smoughtown theorized the Marika/Radagon situation, that Marika was the original, but upon her ascension to vessel of the Elden Ring, Radagon came into existence, making them a Rebus, an alchemical concept of man and woman as one body housing two beings, Radagon even is implied to have some relation to the Fire Giants, the greatest rival Marika had had up until that point, perhaps the Greater Will infusing her with her enemy's essence to strengthen the whole, but while the toils and hardship Marika endured chipped away at her Faith, Radagon only became more and more entrenched in his, irrevocably schisming their desires
Worth noting elphael where we find Loretta is a place for the lost and helpless explaining why two albinurics have different halves of the medallion and why Loretta was there.
This is pretty neat, who knew there was so much lore packed into this game
The theory that Farum Azula is the sky temple make sense, however there are large differences in some of the fallen ruins and the ruins of Farum Azula as has been pointed out by some other creators. The ruins found in limgrave and other areas are empty, however the ruins in Farum Azula that are similar to those in Limgrave, have the skeletons of the beastman embedded into the sides of their ruins.
Really great and well made video mate!!!! Keep it up!!!!
Did the Dung Eater ending so I can burn it all as the Lord of Chaos next. Then I'll do Ranni, Goldmask and/or Fia-Godwyn endings.
man it pisses me off this channel doesn't have more subscribers because you are top notch
I think that's a little too specific to not be related to upcoming DLC; possible theory?
Rusted Anchor's description: "one boat alone was said to have been left behind," along with the translations on the concept map suggesting dangers with sea faring. Lying mermaids? Giant serpent? A kraken?
How else are we supposed to get to the Badlands... unless Elden Ring: Sailor's Grave Edition?
The UI designer signed his name as a flex lol. "Im the guy that isn't holding your hand noob"
Something to mention about the word “numen” is that it is a Latin word for “divinity”, which isn’t obvious if you don’t know Latin, but makes a lot of sense.
fantastic video mate, can't wait for your next deep dive
Love icebergs but not to sound negative or anything, shouldn’t you have waited a little bit to see if dlc content would be announced. It could change a lot of this information in the future making some of the information on here obsolete. Would you remake the video if it does or just make a new updated one in the future.
Great question, I'm planning on potentially make this a multiple part video if people enjoy it! Slowly building up and discovering more theories or merging other icebergs!
@@natiscool that’s what I was thinking. You could Always just put up an updated version. I’d still watch
Who knows how long that will take. We're still in the middle of covid plus Fromsoft ain't like other companies that cut out content so are able to quickly whip up dlc. Don't expect any announcements till the end of the year for next year
@@jeambeam3173 This just isn’t true. There were a ton of cut quests in the original trilogy especially dark souls 1 and 2. ER outsold the entire trilogy though so I’m hoping Bandai Namco gives Fromsoft all of the resources they could imagine now that they tripled their estimated sales and counting.
Theory for why Marika destroyed the Elden Ring: She did it because it is demanded by the Greater Will itself. It is represented by the two Fundamentals: Law of Causality and Law of Regression. I understand them as diverge and converge. The Elden Ring was destroyed and scattered: diverge. Later a Tarnished collected them and became Elden Lord: converge. She did it not only to further life but to serve the Greater Will in Order to create an even stronger Lord by the strategy of Fundamentalism.
Music from The Witcher 3 caught me off guard haha. Great video tho!
Miyazaki while watching the theory of « Elden ring is a prequel » : hum, interesting, I didn’t even thought about that
The fact that the lore is this ambiguous and deep is testament to RR incests contributions to the development of the story telling. Fromsoft made a great play using him for the content
I don’t know how anybody could argue that this is not in the same universe as dark souls you even have a character and armor from “the land of reeds” which is probably an area of the world that takes place in the world of Sekiro and in that game there are two western men that are probably from either the lands between or another DS kingdom. Not to mention the armor the weapons, the references the items the characters there’s no way that these aren’t Cannon. Even my lizard brain connects all these games together.
Cool fact I found halig is old English for holy, and erd is old English for earth/ the world
Very interesting and good video. Would you think of doing a bloodborne iceberg as your next video idea?
Ok so there is a theory I am thinking about..what if we are going back/forward in time to the round tablehold? The round table hold is not on any island? So where is this roundtable hold situated? Every person who travels to roundtable hold goes back/forward in time..We know that a similar looking round tablehold is in the capital..And when the Erdtree burnt the round table also burnt..So it should be somewhere near the Erdtree but the roundtable hold is very far away to the sea and even tho Melina sent us to the roundtable hold but why she never appears in the round table hold? ...Well this is somewhat my assumption..no one needs to agree with me..
I agree. Its the same as Dragon Lord Placidussax's arena. iMO his arena is literally a Dragon Roundtable hold. A Meeting place for the vassals/knights whatever of the Elden Lord.
@@darkhobo I am thinking about more theories..but there is one question hitting me real hard...how the heck Alexandar ended up in Farum Azula? We have been transported to Azula by the Flame of the Fire Gaints..but how did Alexandar went there..Then this thought came to my mind that Melina actually never died in the Fire Gaint Flame..the flames some how connected to Farum Azula (Alexandar was telling us that he will go to the Mountain top of the Gaints)..she transported to Farum Azula to defeat Maliketh and obtain the Destined Death?! Or she wanted to send us their to defeat Maliketh for her? I am sure she is very much connected with destined death so it is a possibility.
Man this game has so many mysteries...
@@zigzagto644 well Melina tells us herself that she died and was burned long ago, so I dont think she is "alive" I personally think her spirit is inside Torrents whistle.
Thats a really good question I never thought about. How did Alexander ended up in Faram Azula? One connection I can think of is the Faram Azula Beastmen use shields made out of ceramic pottery shards. But thats all I really can think of.
You can find the roundtable hold in leyndell
@@darkhobo I am certain of it that Flames of Mountain top of Gaints somehow connected to Farum Azula..if you talk to Alexandar on the Lava mountain at Altus Pleatou he will say that he will travel to the mountain top of gaints. And he will also talk about the voice of flames.
Binged most of your souls/souls related vids, brilliant stuffs.
Will there be a bloodborne iceberg?
Woah those runes... "Do not listen to the songs of the mermaid" brings to mind all the zombie npc's at the beach walking in a giant herd toward the ocean, where you can see a ship half sinking...
that is so cool....
The maelstrom one is an easter egg to Liu Cixin's Three Body Problem.
albin = albino/white auric = gold, albinauric = white gold, idk what that means for the lore but there's some words there
Lands between - there is an underground area and a sky area which the ruins in Limgrave fell from. Simple
"the land between" could also be named as such because it's litterally the place where a bunch of mortals from many lands and even cosmic outers gods fight for this place, for some reason.
it's the between of planes, and country, seeking dominion.
His pronunciation of chickswithbrickscome was so funny, just blurted it out with no hesitation haha😂
An Elden Ring iceberg already 😯🔥
The lands between question is amazing opportunity for DLC
The Silver mentioned that was used to make the Albinorics could actually be Mercury. The Silvertears you see in game could be made of Quicksilver, which is mercury.
You can probably imply one of the other endings can go to other fromsoft properties like Kings Field, or even Evergrace.
When you realize the erdtree is the tool of cosmic outer god basically literally eating bodies and souls and the guy named loathesome dung eater who defiles corpses is actually...the good guy?
In the Sofia River, there are TALL stone pillars, I almost feel they are linked to the ones that you see from DS2. The pillars though to come to an end, so wondering if those are the tips of the ones from DS2, these strange pillars are also in Bloodbourne, and I think DS1 and Demonsouls, but I never really played those ones.
Just figured that was worth pointing out.
Arch trees reference
Fun fact: Middle earth was inspired by a Marco polo notebook Tolkien found while in the army. Middle Earth was referring to a hollow earth.
u should do a Assassins creed iceberg next, great vid btw
Actually had an Assassins creed iceberg on my mind for a while, will definitely be done sooner rather than later!