Great video as normal. Interesting topic. The one thing that has caught me out with these great little things is the amp rating. The Wago 221 20 Amp connector and the Wago 221 32 Amp connector look identical. They are the same size in every way. I’ve mistakenly used 20 Amp Wagos wrong box) on a Ring Final junction box. It’s been installed for well over a year before I’ve realised. Now I’m not sure if I need to swap them out for the 32 Amp. And as normal the Junction box is well hidden under a finished floor. Any thoughts ?
The 221 connectors are rated according to different accrediting bodies it seems. I have a box of 221 connectors here, and sure enough the connector itself has "JET 20A 300V" on one side, "ENEC 32A/450V" on the other. Looking at the back of the box, ENEC is the European Mark for electrical products which passes a rating of 32A at up to 450V, same as the Compulsory China Certificate (CQC) logo for export to the Chinese market. The Japanese market is where the PSE rating applies, and their conformity assessment body (JET) have rated these at 20A. As we're in Europe, you can ignore the 20A rating; these connectors have been assessed and passed at 32A. Some of the Wago series, such as the 773-102 are rated at 24A but also accept up to 2.5mm cable and are sometimes questioned for their use on 32A ring circuits. With any type of connector at all, if it accepts the size of the wire, then it's made to handle the current carrying capacity of that wire - unless it's an iffy knock-off in which case all bets are off, but when we're talking about official bonafide connectors, then if it's built to take a certain size of wire, it will be no less capable of carrying the same current as that wire. Remember that on a 32A ring, 2.5mm is itself not sufficient to handle more than about 18 - 26 Amps for long periods, and if the ring is intact then it shouldn't be, so a 24A connector on a 2.5mm ring is fine; it won't fail any sooner than the wire. In your case, the connectors are rated at 32A; Wago don't make a European connector rated at 20A for 2.5mm wire, so no need to go change them out!
@@dsesuk thank you so much for this amazingly detailed answer. Interestingly my local Strike electrical has the full range of Wago connectors. On the back of the box for some it says 20A and on others it say 32A. Now I’m really confused 🤷 That’s what you tube should be all about. Top man. Keep up the great vids. I may question them on this as to why the same connector has two different box styles. No wonder people get confused
@@johnburns4017 Hi again John, I've used probably every wago made for cable sizes 6mm and under. I don't think I've found one that doesn't take 2.5mm, infact I think they all take at least up to 4mm except for the "lighting connectors" but I never got on with those so I don't buy them anyway.
There’s a fault for your arc protection device in the future! Great videos by the way I discovered you last week and I’m enjoying your descriptive chats Cheers
Been watching loads and loads of your videos, I am an electrical design engineer by trade, great to see a proper job being done! thanks for taking the time to make these videos, we have the same watch.
I had nearly the same issue. I had some work to do on a RFC. I was getting open circuit on the line. Traced it back to a fake wago connector just in the wall behind the C/U. Replaced it with a wago and all was good.
The lever ones are good for stranded cable or small flex, as they wouldnt be strong enough for the push fit ones. I get on ok with the wago box, used loads of them, never had any trouble.
Hi, this is really weird, but when I played this video, my mug of tea was in the same position as yours on my desk and the my mug is the same (well almost the same)!! Thanks for the video by the way. It's good to be aware of wago imitations :)
That's why I use the clamp type wago connectors. More reliable than a push fit connector. Also wouldn't a dead test show a high insulation resistance at that joint? Unless it was damaged or moved afterwards..
David I know this video is about five years old. Like most the stuff we use from connectors to power tools. I have always said that they are made in China/ Hong Kong / or Taiwan, when eFixx had the guy’s from wago UK on there live show he openly admitted that wago’s are a German company and there products are made in Germany Australia China America Holland and the Uk , so there is no real way of knowing if you have brought fakes or not . Always good to highlight the possible problems with such products, as we just don’t know. My advice is to buy from reputable sources and not for market stalls. But as you said you brought some from your regular supplier and now you have doubts. Just my opinion, but who am I to argue i’am just a humble spark who’s opinion means nothing. Fantastic video as always mate 👍👍👍👍❤️
They do make Y splinters. Do you use a lot they also make a single connection with individual throughputs so if you need the splice three wires instead of having a whole Gob of those they just go end-to-end one two three pass through and they're all in one junction. Very cool and color-coded.
Hi dave, excellent video pointing out the effects of using knockoffs. What you save on the cost of these things may cause you a big headache down the track. Totally not worth it. Great work sharing your tips, knowledge and experiences on youtube with others. Please keep it up.
I walked into a discussion on this today on a sparky forum. Opinions differ, but the reality is that you can use a verified maintenance free box’s with verified maintenance free connectors and it doesn’t have to be accessible. The basic features are a sealed flame retardant enclosure secured with a screw or lock pin. Cable arrestors and screw-less terminal block.
i love these things. using them all the time. though i heavent encountered ones that are rated 1 - 2.5 mm only 1.5 - 2.5. maybe bcz of standards in my country...
I have seen that Toolstation have started to sell wago connectors for a while and they look like the genuine ones with the branding on them and all the information below but I am a little skeptic about buying some as I haven’t a clue if they’ll be the genuine ones or the fake ones. Tool station seem to sell them in smaller quantities for cheaper prices so it seems so would it be worth it Dave? Thanks
From what I understand, Wago state: *1)* That their connectors are superior to screw-in connectors, as they always give the *correct torque.* Handy in that torque screwdrivers are not needed. *2)* They also state that the connection is superior as *more of the cable is gripped* - so less resistance drop on a cable run. *3)* And that they *do not work loose* as screwed connections can. That correct?
The other thing to note with these things is the differing cable sizes and ratings..... I think even the 221's are only rated at 20 amps. I could be wrong, whereas the 773's for the 6mm are actually rated at 41 amps...
Good video. i Just used my first Wagos yesterday. i like them. the 221 series. very small compared to wire nuts. much nicer since i was in a very tight location.
I second the Y connector comment. Sometimes when splicing into an existing wire you have zero slack available and can't get each end of the cut wire into a 221/222/773/2773 but in a Y the connector could make up the extra distance you need so that the two wires would go into each end of the connector far enough to be a successful connection. Also, in some situations, it would just look cleaner. Yeah maybe you'll be the only person to see it for 10 or 20 years, but it's a thing, ya know?
Old video so you probably don't have any of the fago connectors around, but it would be interesting to tear one down and an actual wago and compare the metal inside (strength, thickness, clamping geometry, etc).
I saw the old style grey and orange (222) knockoffs for $20 for a multiple port 60 pack but decided to just get the actual wago 2 port 10 pack. I dont use em all the time so 10 will be okay and I thought perhaps I shouldnt go with a knockoff brand as a first impression on these lever locks
just wondering past and i couldn't help but watch due to the subject. Have you seen some of the 'wago' connectors on ebay that look just like wago but there are a few things that do not match up. difference in fonts, alignment do not match and font difference. on the 222 series
Not specifically, but I don't use eBay for anything as I don't trust the quality of the source. I only use local trade wholesalers for my goods and I try to avoid the internet as much as possible, not because all online sellers are in any way dodgy, but more so I have a local point of return for goods should they develop a fault or require a return when I'm overstocked such as if a job gets canned at the eleventh hour! My iffy connector here was from a branch of a national wholesaler which is why I was annoyed enough to make the video. Had I sourced it from the likes of eBay then I'd have nobody to blame but myself!
I've never really trusted anything that is push fit . Though really there is no perfect way to terminate. When arc detectors take off ..........expect a lot of phone calls
Thank you for the reply sir I’m going to consider them but I’m not doing the trade trade anymore retired but I never had a problem with using ideal wire nuts the tan ones this is a cool idea thank you very much for your reply so you are the UK or are you in the USA
I'm in the UK, and for some reason the wire nuts never caught on here, you just don't see them at all. Wago are everywhere though, it's only the real cheapskates who still use screw connectors, but we get through thousands of Wago's per year and have never had a single failure. If you go for this type of thing, steer clear of the nonsense on the likes of Amazon and eBay!
I wish Wago made a straight connector with levers to replace two-pair screw terminals. In pretty much all older installations in Norway ceiling lights are connected with those, and I'd feel much better about it if they were connected with a maintenance free junction instead of those screw terminals. I'd be a lot more convenient too.
Have you seen the lighting connectors? They take two solid/coarse stranded wires on one side and a stranded one on the other, with a lever. IKEA supply those with all their lights in central Europe these days.
Whoa!!! Buried connections without junction boxes? Is that legal on your side of the ocean? In the US and Canada all splices have to be in an accessible junction box..
It's permitted if the connection is considered to be permanent such as soldered or crimped or, in the case of Wago style connectors, if they comply with BS5733, are derated for the design current, installed to manufacturer instructions and are contained within an approved enclosure that can only be opened with the use of a tool.
At around 1:30 you mentioned buried connections below finished floors or ceilings. Not sure where you live but here in the U.S. its not legal to bury any connection. You must have access to all connections and for good reason...
I bought some 100 pieces of wago knockoff like this and none of them was weak or loose. You need to apply a lot of force and twist to pull the wire out. They are 250V/24A rated with CE marking on it. If you have to apply some force when putting wires in, and apply a lot of force when you try to pull when wires out, then i is fine. Just do a "pull test" when making a connection with it and you will be sure that it is fine. These are simple mechanisms, easy to make, and risk of a failure even on a knockoff is very low. If only one of the many was defective I would not be worry because defect can happen even to original wago. But if many of them were loose than it's a bad product. BTW The "tiny" new type of original wago are easier to pull out.
Don't get me wrong, there are other manufacturers who make good quality alternatives, Ideal being one such brand. Had these things been sourced from eBay then I wouldn't have been surprised, but the point here was that they were sold by CEF who are one of the largest suppliers to the UK electrical industry and the primary supplier to my business, and my branch of CEF were planning to stock this product instead of Wago, a decision they later abandoned thankfully. Also, this was supplied in a pack of ten. Now, I don't now what happened to the other nine, but even if they are out in the wild and performing as designed then that's still a 10% failure rate from my point of view and necessitated in my having to fix the issue at my own time and cost, and thank goodness it was accessible as not all junction's are!
I have used few hundred of original Wago (different models), Legrand and no name Wago knockoffs push-in connectors and didn't have any problem with any of it. Inside mechanism in all of them are similar and solid. If it holds good when pushed in, it wan't get loose later. I suggest that you open the connector mechanism and see what was the reason of failure. I agree that risk of failure in No-name product is somewhat higher than in brand, but i would not worry if that is one-in-a hundred... From your point of view you have 10% failure, but statistic say that you must have sample big enough to be representative to draw a proper conclusion :-) IMO wago 2273 series are best since they are small, compact and best for very limited space of junction boxes.
A perfectly fine alternative in my opinion. I haven't bought a Helacon Plus pack for two or three years, but there were three reasons why I chose the Wago brand over them. Firstly, the Helacon connectors were bulkier than the Wago series, although that may have changed since. When fitting into tight enclosures such as a Wagobox, better to have a connector that requires less space! Secondly, only Edmundsons sold Helacon, at least locally, whereas I could source Wago from CEF, Edmundsons, ElectricFix and Denmans. Finally, for those occasions when you need to remove a wire from a push-fit connector, the Helacon models seemed more reluctant to release their grasp which may give you confidence that it has a better grip than the Wago, but is a pain in the arse if you've just populated a whole connector and then find you need to add another wire! Just my personal observations though, and like I say, things have probably changed since I last used them!
@@dsesuk HelaCon Lux are 'two in, one out' as per your diagram. They do say that they are best suited for two solid conductors in and one stranded out as in a lighting connection but they will accept 2.5 solid on both sides! Enjoy your content!
You don’t like the Wago junction box, Which other junction box you prefer to use with the 221 ? Traditional junction box don’t you think they are much safer and secure? Obviously take more time
@@dsesuk great thanks that puts my mind at ease. Not sure if they have changed but the ideal push ones were not MF a couple of years ago so had to be accessible (from the horses mouth tech number) but they were trying to sort it.
I’ve had a few issues with ideal NOT accepting 1.5mm cable the cable simply won’t go in the connector it’s mainly been the four ways I’ve had the issue with
Hm. Are you sure? All my genuine Wago connectors are rated at 24A for 2.5mm cable. 4mm and 6mm variants are rated at 32 and 41A respectively. You do have to de-rate them under certain circumstances just as you have to de-rate cables in certain installations, but in optimal conditions they're rated the same as the cable. And quite right too, there shouldn't be any crimp or connector that can accept a certain CSA of cable but not the load that cable may be pulling! Let me know which model of Wago you're looking at though.
I've noyuced that come wagos actually state they cover 1.5mm up, so it might be a case that the fago covers 1.5mm+ whilst the wago will cover 1mm even if not specced for it
Never seen the "fago" ones but will keep them in mind. Saw an exterior double socket in a pound store recently... Can you imagine what trouble that could cause!
Now I ain't saying I'm some sort of brainiac and maybe I have suffered one too many blows to the head, I mean I do keep smelling toast everywhere I go but at 3:22 just with that Y connector, you could use 3 x Wago 3 way connector, push or lever. Just split and strip the ring, stick it in the connector and then add in the spur. Unless the guy that installed the ring, in the first place, was a complete twat who was being super economical with the T&E you should have enough give to do it??
Yes they are German, and I'm sure the Germans will pronounce it as vago but we all call them Wago's. There is more to this company than just snappy Wago's, they have a whole range of products designed to help electrical and electronic installations, some of my favourite are the din rail mounted beauties that can be interconnected and require a tool to momentarily open the cage clamp system. In my opinion as a mechanical and electrical engineer, Wago has been an outstanding choice of products for power connections. Can you believe, Americans and Canadians still think those crappy twist nuts are a better choice!
It is, but I was talking more about something in-line similar to a butt-crimp, but in a Y-configuration. If you're splicing into a tight cable, there isn't always enough slack to parallel the wires using the three-way connectors. There is a product that will suffice though, the Hager J803. Ideal for splicing into a tight ring cable to run a new spur.
Did you replace all the ones you’d already fitted? Did you let CEF know? Why name CEF but not that brand? That brand may well be a fire hazard and probably sold elsewhere, don’t you have a duty to identify it?
The instructions provided with the Wagobox enclosures describe how to install and de-rate these connectors "...in situations where you need to install a Wagobox in an inaccessible location". Of course, this is in the UK where BS7671 regulation 526.3 applies so long as the equipment is compliant with BS5733 as these are. Other territories may not permit such.
I thought the connectors are only rates for one time use, only the wago with the leaver can be re used. As far as I know Here we don't re use these connectors
The push-fit connectors can be reused; to extract the wire, pull and twist until it comes out. The removed conductor is generally in a better condition than one which has been tightly clamped in a conventional screw terminal, but I like to restrip it back to a clean end in case the conductor has been weakened by the twisting. I don't know how many re-insertions these type of connectors are rated for, but if it grips when re-inserted and doesn't let go when tugged, then I'd imagine you're okay. If in any doubt however, sling it in the bin and use a fresh one!
Sorry to be commenting so late on this one Mr S, but do you REALLY trust the push-fit Wagos in a maintenance-free situation? Especially the 6mm variety? I particularly like the lever Wagos in all flavours, at least because it's a) compliant and b) effing quick. I just don't trust the push-fit system, that's all. Now, go and have a very Merry Christmas, call Nige a tosser from me (only joking Nige, you're a legend)....and enjoy some Special Brew in a Babycham glass with an olive. You crusty old spark you ;)
Hi Ade. Yes, I've never had a problem with proper brand push-fits (Wago, HellermannTyton, Ideal etc.) If they're good enough for BSi, then that'll do for me! I'll be sure to pass your seasonal greeting on to Nigel! Bottoms up!
I wouldn't run electrical services in locations prone to flooding, at least, not unless they were rated for that environment. If you're not referring to a flood risk area and you mean an accident that might happen such as a water main bursting, then all bets are off. I don't install circuits that are guaranteed resistant to unforeseen external influences that it would be unreasonable to try and guard against. If a pipe bursts, your dinner catches fire on the stove or an aeroplane crashes into your roof, the electrical installation may be damaged and require repair, but until those things or similar incidents occur, there's no need to worry about it.
@@dsesuk Yes, I'm referring exactly to a pipe bursting or even someone spilling a bucket of water accidentally. It's likely to happen and if that floor is wood, then the connection is completely unprotected.
I don't know what things are like where you are, but here we don't get frequent burst pipes or bucket spillages to have to second-guess our electrical installations. They're not events that are likely to happen, more freak occurrences to be dealt with if and when necessary.
Are you saying that City Electrical Factors is stocking Counterfeit Wago connectors? Because that is what these are! I think that one has been damaged and re used by somebody yanking a cable out of the damaged port and damaging the spring. Should never have been reused.
No, as someone earlier pointed out, they're not 'fake' Wagos, they're wannabe Wagos - they look exactly the same, but come in their own packaging under a different name. It was a sealed packet, so not a unit that had been previously used.
Yes but that would be only suitable for a spur. But a ring main needs a 30 amp rating. Wago are 24 but tool station have something that looks identical ( this may be the imposter) they are rated at 32. Hope this helps my concern is that viewers may think these wago can join a ring but this is not the case!
Ah, I see what you're saying, however the Wago 24A connectors are suitable for use in a ring configuration. Remember that 2.5mm cable is itself rated at less than 30A, but nevertheless can be protected by a 30A fuse or 32A breaker in a ring configuration so long as the ring is intact. An intact ring effectively gives you 5mm CSA of cabling with the load split over two cables. If the ring is broken then a 24A wago is at no greater risk of overload then the 2.5mm cable passing through it which has the same sort of rating. This is why it is important to have periodic inspections to check for ring breaks, and if the cause cannot be identified or rectified, then the circuit downgraded. A client won't see a ring break as all their sockets are still working so they may raise their eyebrows when you tell them it's something that needs fixing! Also, trying to track a break on an old circuit that has been modified over the years can be a hopeless task! Personally I avoid installing rings and prefer 20A radial circuits on new installations. Just to add, the ones sold in Toolstation are rated higher as you say and are not the imposters I've looked at here. They are made by In-Sure and they are a perfectly valid alternative to Wago. I've used many In-Sure models myself without issue, and had I thought about it instead of just blindly ranting and wanting to go back to my cup of tea then I would have mentioned In-Sure in the video!
I’m about change my living room light and I’m using the wago connectors but there is not enough room in my ceiling to put the wago junction box,,just wondering if I will be fine just sticking the connectors in to the ceiling on there own,,,,,I’m getting rid of the ceiling rose
Ah yes, the pain of three-plate wiring and where to shove it all when you install a new luminaire that doesn't accommodate it! I talked about this in my Quickwire video and in a Free Advice article on my website as it is a common, and annoying, problem. As you say, sometimes it isn't practical to make a hole large enough to contain an enclosure. It's up to you as the man on the ground (or up the ladder) as to how you proceed. If doing it by the book, then those single insulated wires and their connectors should be contained in an enclosure of some kind, be it a Wagobox or something similar that's made for that job, or they should be located in the base of the new light fitting if it's big enough. Having the wires enclosed minimises shock risk and helps to contain a fire if a poorly wired junction starts arcing. If enclosing them simply isn't practical, then you wouldn't be the first person to wrap them up in electrical tape and shove them above the ceiling! Doing that wouldn't comply with the wiring regs, but if it's your own home and you're happy that it's wired correctly (minimising an arc risk), and there's no ongoing shock risk, then it's up to you as to how you proceed. Or to cut a long story short (too late), either make a bigger hole to contain the enclosure and then make good the damage, or tape, shove and live with it unenclosed! The risk assessment is yours to make, and it's down to you to decide what's practical and safe. If in doubt, call in a local electrician for advice, but check they are well rated and trustworthy first as most of them out there wouldn't think twice about a tape-and-shove with screw blocks instead of the better, but more expensive, Wago connectors!
When doing rewire/new builds I usually take my loop feed wires to the switch boxes as more and more customer desire downlighters and other decorative fittings, the 3 plate ceiling pendant is a thing of the past.
Hi David. You said that you would be liable 'seeing as it's OUR fault that it failed', but would you? Be liable, I mean. Component failure is surely manufacturers fault. I had need to replace an outside security light that had been up only a couple of weeks (one of five I installed at the same address). That particular brand had been reliable up until then (three or four dozen installed without incident), and I did replace it free of charge for the sake of goodwill but IF any fail, say, six months down the line, I would feel totally justified charging the client, certainly for labour costs, though I would insist on a refund from the supplier. Am I wrong? (Oh, incidentally, I am reliably informed that Wago is indeed pronounced 'Vaa- go', like in Volkswagen.)
No, you're not wrong, it just depends on what terms you offer. I put a no-quibble 24 month warranty on anything I install if the client pays in full within five days of receiving the invoice. If they pay late, then only the manufacturer warranty applies, so in that circumstance I could charge labour for replacing or faultfinding on failures. When a failure does occur prematurely on a value item of equipment, I will return it for exchange/refund to avoid being out of pocket any more than I have to. It's up to you to set what terms and conditions to work by, so as long as you're not affecting anybody's statutory rights and your terms are up-front (on your website, written estimates etc.)
Technically, if you supply the product you are liable as the reseller. Unless the client specifies a particular product or you were a subcontractor then you would normally be liable for the total cost of a remedy. If you worked for a contractor, they would primarily be responsible as the final reseller of your work
These look exactly like Wago's, but are from a different brand. I won't name the brand for fear of legal bother, but they continue to retail in my local branch of CEF.
I have had similar problems with push in connections on light fittings, the cable came out with the slightest pull , I swapped them for connector blocks to fix that but not good imo
Seen both WAGO and other shit. I tend to stick with the quality brands, i would'nt want to hack up someone's Sunday best to route out a dodgy shitty connection. It may save a few bob, but when it goes wrong, it can cost more than the jobs worth.
That’s because all junctions would be accessible in the USA because all your walls are made of paper and are hollow and only have to survive until the next hurricane/forest fire/earthquake.😉
I've had no problems personally in the years I have been using Wago products, but I agree that a poor connection such as that exhibited by this other brand would have the capability for a localised heat build-up through high resistance. Anything that joins two wires together may be subject to stress, but so long as the connectors, and by extension the cables, are operating within their design parameters, then there shouldn't be any significant thermal loading where the cable is securely clamped. If they're getting warm, something is wrong with the design or modification of the circuit - or your connector is a dodgy knock-off like this one! JW posted a good video where he pushed a Wago and other types of connector well past their design limits, and although the plastic eventually melted, there was no failure in the electrical connection, at least not until the wire itself gave up. Of course, that was a one-off test rather than cycling over time, but if you have any test data to show otherwise then do please post a link here as it would be worth a look.
The idea that's troubling, is the idea that the Wago CAUSED the resistance which CAUSED the failure. THEN we have a problem. I think that its quite possible that Wago's are actually fine MECHANICAL connections, doing quite alright, at least with the Lever ones, but create resistance which causes problems for the wires. Murphy's law ish type deal.
A troubling prospect indeed, although remember it wasn't a Wago in this case, but an impostor which very much looked like the real thing, and was only distinguishable from such through the missing Wago logo if examined closely using a magnifying glass!
Oh I wasn't talking about this case here. A video was done by John Ward, "Wire Connectors Overloaded". A real ( I am assuming) Wago was put under overload with other connectors, and the connection failed before the Wago. The idea is, the Wago will be fine, but perhaps resistance could build up prior to it and cause failures. It was at ridiculous over current of course, *but still, how much resistance, under a continuous heavy legal load, can these handle. That is the mystery that has yet to be solved, although a test would not be the hardest in the world to preform.*
Ah yes, a good video by JW. The outer plastic burned up, but as you say the wire itself failed before the internal metallic connector had a chance to break. Personally, I don't see these being any greater risk than a traditional crimp connection. In fact, I'd favour a Wago over a crimp as I've seen crimped connections which look sound, but fail a decent tug-test. Of course, any kind of wiring splice is at risk of eventual mechanical failure, but if you're installing them to the local regulatory requirements and to the manufacturer's instructions then that's as much as any installer can do!
David Savery Electrical Services no need to apologise. I'm grateful for the in depth information from someone qualified as yourself. If I miss the odd word or 2 it's not the end of the world. Thanks again buddy
Agreed - where practical. BS7671 regulation 513.1 requires every electrical joint to be accessible and any good circuit design would allow for this, but this becomes impractical in retrofit applications where you have no choice but to splice into existing wiring which may then be covered over. Pulling up a floorboard to install a junction for a new spur is all well and good, but if the homeowner then covers it with a laminate floor then getting access to it again would be costly and difficult. You wouldn't want to use a screw junction as the screw may work loose over time so this is where the maintenance free requirement comes in. Regulation 526.3 again states the need for all connections to be accessible but then lists six exceptions, one of which is equipment complying with BS5733, carrying the MF logo and installed to the manufacturer's instructions. Wago push-fit and clamp connectors would comply, as well as crimp or solder joints, but they need to be derated as per Wago's instructions and installed in a Wagobox or other similar MF rated enclosure. Of course, your local wiring regulations may differ if you're not in the UK.
@@relobmit You may be right considering the number of messages I get with 'u', '2' and American spellings interspersed among the text. It's just not cricket!
Great video as normal. Interesting topic. The one thing that has caught me out with these great little things is the amp rating. The Wago 221 20 Amp connector and the Wago 221 32 Amp connector look identical. They are the same size in every way. I’ve mistakenly used 20 Amp Wagos wrong box) on a Ring Final junction box. It’s been installed for well over a year before I’ve realised. Now I’m not sure if I need to swap them out for the 32 Amp. And as normal the Junction box is well hidden under a finished floor. Any thoughts ?
The 221 connectors are rated according to different accrediting bodies it seems. I have a box of 221 connectors here, and sure enough the connector itself has "JET 20A 300V" on one side, "ENEC 32A/450V" on the other. Looking at the back of the box, ENEC is the European Mark for electrical products which passes a rating of 32A at up to 450V, same as the Compulsory China Certificate (CQC) logo for export to the Chinese market. The Japanese market is where the PSE rating applies, and their conformity assessment body (JET) have rated these at 20A. As we're in Europe, you can ignore the 20A rating; these connectors have been assessed and passed at 32A. Some of the Wago series, such as the 773-102 are rated at 24A but also accept up to 2.5mm cable and are sometimes questioned for their use on 32A ring circuits. With any type of connector at all, if it accepts the size of the wire, then it's made to handle the current carrying capacity of that wire - unless it's an iffy knock-off in which case all bets are off, but when we're talking about official bonafide connectors, then if it's built to take a certain size of wire, it will be no less capable of carrying the same current as that wire. Remember that on a 32A ring, 2.5mm is itself not sufficient to handle more than about 18 - 26 Amps for long periods, and if the ring is intact then it shouldn't be, so a 24A connector on a 2.5mm ring is fine; it won't fail any sooner than the wire. In your case, the connectors are rated at 32A; Wago don't make a European connector rated at 20A for 2.5mm wire, so no need to go change them out!
@@dsesuk thank you so much for this amazingly detailed answer. Interestingly my local Strike electrical has the full range of Wago connectors. On the back of the box for some it says 20A and on others it say 32A. Now I’m really confused 🤷 That’s what you tube should be all about. Top man. Keep up the great vids. I may question them on this as to why the same connector has two different box styles. No wonder people get confused
@@morkthebuilder9943
I am not fully familiar with the Wago range, however if it says 20A, maybe a 2.5mm cannot be pushed in, only a 1.5mm?
@@johnburns4017 Hi again John, I've used probably every wago made for cable sizes 6mm and under. I don't think I've found one that doesn't take 2.5mm, infact I think they all take at least up to 4mm except for the "lighting connectors" but I never got on with those so I don't buy them anyway.
Not same size. 221-41x is smaller than 221-61x.
Nothing wrong with his voice, I understood every word. 😀 They're great connector's, thanks for the video!
Found your videos & glad I did, starting my life over & training soon. Please keep the honest Frank talking coming
Thanks for your kind feedback, and all the best with the training!
There’s a fault for your arc protection device in the future! Great videos by the way I discovered you last week and I’m enjoying your descriptive chats
Cheers
Been watching loads and loads of your videos, I am an electrical design engineer by trade, great to see a proper job being done! thanks for taking the time to make these videos, we have the same watch.
Thanks Knoxieman, I'm glad you find my babbling useful! And great taste on the wrist-wear!
I had nearly the same issue. I had some work to do on a RFC. I was getting open circuit on the line. Traced it back to a fake wago connector just in the wall behind the C/U. Replaced it with a wago and all was good.
The WAGO box was made by another company in the UK - They managed to get WAGO to add them to their catalog - obvious compliment to their products
I've used wago boxes on temporary exhibition installs where the boxes are exposed so the cable tie is useful.
I have just completed an 18th edition electrical course and the instructor pointed out that the Chinese C mark is very simmaler to the UK C mark
"All my clothes come from George at Asda or Screwfix." 🤣
or McDonalds...
@@johnpriceuk Well spotted 😂
Thanks David and I think your advice is correct. Great research
The lever ones are good for stranded cable or small flex, as they wouldnt be strong enough for the push fit ones. I get on ok with the wago box, used loads of them, never had any trouble.
Hi, this is really weird, but when I played this video, my mug of tea was in the same position as yours on my desk and the my mug is the same (well almost the same)!! Thanks for the video by the way. It's good to be aware of wago imitations :)
Same here except mine was coffee!
This 12 min video is gold on many levels.
That's why I use the clamp type wago connectors. More reliable than a push fit connector. Also wouldn't a dead test show a high insulation resistance at that joint? Unless it was damaged or moved afterwards..
David I know this video is about five years old. Like most the stuff we use from connectors to power tools. I have always said that they are made in China/ Hong Kong / or Taiwan, when eFixx had the guy’s from wago UK on there live show he openly admitted that wago’s are a German company and there products are made in Germany Australia China America Holland and the Uk , so there is no real way of knowing if you have brought fakes or not .
Always good to highlight the possible problems with such products, as we just don’t know. My advice is to buy from reputable sources and not for market stalls. But as you said you brought some from your regular supplier and now you have doubts.
Just my opinion, but who am I to argue i’am just a humble spark who’s opinion means nothing.
Fantastic video as always mate
👍👍👍👍❤️
They do make Y splinters. Do you use a lot they also make a single connection with individual throughputs so if you need the splice three wires instead of having a whole Gob of those they just go end-to-end one two three pass through and they're all in one junction. Very cool and color-coded.
I use a pair a water pump pliers to get the wago box closed if it's just a bit too tight even with the rubber cable restraints
Hi dave, excellent video pointing out the effects of using knockoffs. What you save on the cost of these things may cause you a big headache down the track. Totally not worth it. Great work sharing your tips, knowledge and experiences on youtube with others. Please keep it up.
Thanks John, I'll try!
Not sure if you are now aware, they make the Y split version.
Great for lighting links 😬
I walked into a discussion on this today on a sparky forum. Opinions differ, but the reality is that you can use a verified maintenance free box’s with verified maintenance free connectors and it doesn’t have to be accessible. The basic features are a sealed flame retardant enclosure secured with a screw or lock pin. Cable arrestors and screw-less terminal block.
surely you would tug test these push in things .
i love these things. using them all the time. though i heavent encountered ones that are rated 1 - 2.5 mm only 1.5 - 2.5. maybe bcz of standards in my country...
john doe bn
Some of those connectors are 2,5-6 mm2. others look similar, but are for 0,5-2,5 mm2. Maybe that one was the first?
I have seen that Toolstation have started to sell wago connectors for a while and they look like the genuine ones with the branding on them and all the information below but I am a little skeptic about buying some as I haven’t a clue if they’ll be the genuine ones or the fake ones. Tool station seem to sell them in smaller quantities for cheaper prices so it seems so would it be worth it Dave? Thanks
From what I understand, Wago state:
*1)* That their connectors are superior to screw-in connectors, as they always give the *correct torque.* Handy in that torque screwdrivers are not needed.
*2)* They also state that the connection is superior as *more of the cable is gripped* - so less resistance drop on a cable run.
*3)* And that they *do not work loose* as screwed connections can.
That correct?
Is there a reason why they don't have a 4-way connector in the 221 series?
Great product , you can pare off those sharp edges with a sharp chisel and it gives a bit more room inside.....👍
Cheers .
The other thing to note with these things is the differing cable sizes and ratings..... I think even the 221's are only rated at 20 amps. I could be wrong, whereas the 773's for the 6mm are actually rated at 41 amps...
Is not the "Y" connector you suggest just a three socket connector for each line?
Good video. i Just used my first Wagos yesterday. i like them. the 221 series. very small compared to wire nuts. much nicer since i was in a very tight location.
Was that the one you filmed for your channel? Rather you than me, it didn't look like much fun!
Are stranded TPS cables meant to be twisted before clamped into the wago or not? Having trouble finding that in the manufacturers instructions.
Yes, by twisting you will make it harder to remove them from the Wago and that is safer.
I second the Y connector comment. Sometimes when splicing into an existing wire you have zero slack available and can't get each end of the cut wire into a 221/222/773/2773 but in a Y the connector could make up the extra distance you need so that the two wires would go into each end of the connector far enough to be a successful connection. Also, in some situations, it would just look cleaner. Yeah maybe you'll be the only person to see it for 10 or 20 years, but it's a thing, ya know?
Old video so you probably don't have any of the fago connectors around, but it would be interesting to tear one down and an actual wago and compare the metal inside (strength, thickness, clamping geometry, etc).
I saw the old style grey and orange (222) knockoffs for $20 for a multiple port 60 pack but decided to just get the actual wago 2 port 10 pack. I dont use em all the time so 10 will be okay and I thought perhaps I shouldnt go with a knockoff brand as a first impression on these lever locks
Are Wago 221’s maintenance free?
just wondering past and i couldn't help but watch due to the subject. Have you seen some of the 'wago' connectors on ebay that look just like wago but there are a few things that do not match up. difference in fonts, alignment do not match and font difference. on the 222 series
Not specifically, but I don't use eBay for anything as I don't trust the quality of the source. I only use local trade wholesalers for my goods and I try to avoid the internet as much as possible, not because all online sellers are in any way dodgy, but more so I have a local point of return for goods should they develop a fault or require a return when I'm overstocked such as if a job gets canned at the eleventh hour! My iffy connector here was from a branch of a national wholesaler which is why I was annoyed enough to make the video. Had I sourced it from the likes of eBay then I'd have nobody to blame but myself!
I've never really trusted anything that is push fit . Though really there is no perfect way to terminate. When arc detectors take off ..........expect a lot of phone calls
Thank you for the reply sir I’m going to consider them but I’m not doing the trade trade anymore retired but I never had a problem with using ideal wire nuts the tan ones this is a cool idea thank you very much for your reply so you are the UK or are you in the USA
I'm in the UK, and for some reason the wire nuts never caught on here, you just don't see them at all. Wago are everywhere though, it's only the real cheapskates who still use screw connectors, but we get through thousands of Wago's per year and have never had a single failure. If you go for this type of thing, steer clear of the nonsense on the likes of Amazon and eBay!
@@dsesuk I bought my wagos on amazon, are you talking those or the no name knock offs?
At least here in Germany the standard wago series 2273 and 221 is labeled with made by Wago in Germany. 773 series (up to 2.5) isn't available here.
I have collection of these that I bought at very large US big box store. I guess I know what I will be doing tonight.
Thanks for the video.
I love those damn wagos, they allow me to use small junction box for molex connections.
I wish Wago made a straight connector with levers to replace two-pair screw terminals. In pretty much all older installations in Norway ceiling lights are connected with those, and I'd feel much better about it if they were connected with a maintenance free junction instead of those screw terminals. I'd be a lot more convenient too.
Have you seen the lighting connectors? They take two solid/coarse stranded wires on one side and a stranded one on the other, with a lever. IKEA supply those with all their lights in central Europe these days.
They do now
Whoa!!! Buried connections without junction boxes? Is that legal on your side of the ocean? In the US and Canada all splices have to be in an accessible junction box..
It's permitted if the connection is considered to be permanent such as soldered or crimped or, in the case of Wago style connectors, if they comply with BS5733, are derated for the design current, installed to manufacturer instructions and are contained within an approved enclosure that can only be opened with the use of a tool.
At around 1:30 you mentioned buried connections below finished floors or ceilings. Not sure where you live but here in the U.S. its not legal to bury any connection. You must have access to all connections and for good reason...
I bought some 100 pieces of wago knockoff like this and none of them was weak or loose. You need to apply a lot of force and twist to pull the wire out. They are 250V/24A rated with CE marking on it. If you have to apply some force when putting wires in, and apply a lot of force when you try to pull when wires out, then i is fine. Just do a "pull test" when making a connection with it and you will be sure that it is fine.
These are simple mechanisms, easy to make, and risk of a failure even on a knockoff is very low. If only one of the many was defective I would not be worry because defect can happen even to original wago. But if many of them were loose than it's a bad product.
BTW The "tiny" new type of original wago are easier to pull out.
Don't get me wrong, there are other manufacturers who make good quality alternatives, Ideal being one such brand. Had these things been sourced from eBay then I wouldn't have been surprised, but the point here was that they were sold by CEF who are one of the largest suppliers to the UK electrical industry and the primary supplier to my business, and my branch of CEF were planning to stock this product instead of Wago, a decision they later abandoned thankfully. Also, this was supplied in a pack of ten. Now, I don't now what happened to the other nine, but even if they are out in the wild and performing as designed then that's still a 10% failure rate from my point of view and necessitated in my having to fix the issue at my own time and cost, and thank goodness it was accessible as not all junction's are!
I have used few hundred of original Wago (different models), Legrand and no name Wago knockoffs push-in connectors and didn't have any problem with any of it. Inside mechanism in all of them are similar and solid. If it holds good when pushed in, it wan't get loose later. I suggest that you open the connector mechanism and see what was the reason of failure. I agree that risk of failure in No-name product is somewhat higher than in brand, but i would not worry if that is one-in-a hundred... From your point of view you have 10% failure, but statistic say that you must have sample big enough to be representative to draw a proper conclusion :-)
IMO wago 2273 series are best since they are small, compact and best for very limited space of junction boxes.
Fake Wago, like the guitarist from Bad News: Vim Fwago (Fuego). Just saying. R.I.P. Colin Grigson, a true legend.
did you dismantle the connector to see what failed in it?
I'm afraid not. I probably would these days, but back then I had about 20 subscribers and assumed nobody would ever watch the thing!
I've used Helacon Plus Connectors for years now and not had any problem, have you got an opinion on these?
A perfectly fine alternative in my opinion. I haven't bought a Helacon Plus pack for two or three years, but there were three reasons why I chose the Wago brand over them. Firstly, the Helacon connectors were bulkier than the Wago series, although that may have changed since. When fitting into tight enclosures such as a Wagobox, better to have a connector that requires less space! Secondly, only Edmundsons sold Helacon, at least locally, whereas I could source Wago from CEF, Edmundsons, ElectricFix and Denmans. Finally, for those occasions when you need to remove a wire from a push-fit connector, the Helacon models seemed more reluctant to release their grasp which may give you confidence that it has a better grip than the Wago, but is a pain in the arse if you've just populated a whole connector and then find you need to add another wire! Just my personal observations though, and like I say, things have probably changed since I last used them!
Thank you for your reply
@@dsesuk HelaCon Lux are 'two in, one out' as per your diagram. They do say that they are best suited for two solid conductors in and one stranded out as in a lighting connection but they will accept 2.5 solid on both sides! Enjoy your content!
You don’t like the Wago junction box,
Which other junction box you prefer to use with the 221 ?
Traditional junction box don’t you think they are much safer and secure?
Obviously take more time
Don't want to slate any manufacturers but do the brand that fail start with an I and end with an L?
Only asking as I've fitted quite a few
No, I've used Ideal connectors without issue!
@@dsesuk great thanks that puts my mind at ease. Not sure if they have changed but the ideal push ones were not MF a couple of years ago so had to be accessible (from the horses mouth tech number) but they were trying to sort it.
I’ve had a few issues with ideal NOT accepting 1.5mm cable the cable simply won’t go in the connector it’s mainly been the four ways I’ve had the issue with
Hi David I'm a little concerned that your not mentioning amps! Even though some of wago can take 2.5 they are only 20amp rated
Hm. Are you sure? All my genuine Wago connectors are rated at 24A for 2.5mm cable. 4mm and 6mm variants are rated at 32 and 41A respectively. You do have to de-rate them under certain circumstances just as you have to de-rate cables in certain installations, but in optimal conditions they're rated the same as the cable. And quite right too, there shouldn't be any crimp or connector that can accept a certain CSA of cable but not the load that cable may be pulling! Let me know which model of Wago you're looking at though.
I've noyuced that come wagos actually state they cover 1.5mm up, so it might be a case that the fago covers 1.5mm+ whilst the wago will cover 1mm even if not specced for it
Never seen the "fago" ones but will keep them in mind. Saw an exterior double socket in a pound store recently... Can you imagine what trouble that could cause!
Now I ain't saying I'm some sort of brainiac and maybe I have suffered one too many blows to the head, I mean I do keep smelling toast everywhere I go but at 3:22 just with that Y connector, you could use 3 x Wago 3 way connector, push or lever. Just split and strip the ring, stick it in the connector and then add in the spur.
Unless the guy that installed the ring, in the first place, was a complete twat who was being super economical with the T&E you should have enough give to do it??
I like wire nuts made by ideal red yellow orange
I enjoyed your video. It was very helpful. Thank you!
Hagar junction boxes are my go to, over the wago boxes.
I’ve found that the lever type can pop open so now have to tape them shut,hope it was just a bad batch but I’ve lost confidence with the lever ones
Wago or fake version? I was stupid and ordered fakes.
Yes they are German, and I'm sure the Germans will pronounce it as vago but we all call them Wago's.
There is more to this company than just snappy Wago's, they have a whole range of products designed to help electrical and electronic installations, some of my favourite are the din rail mounted beauties that can be interconnected and require a tool to momentarily open the cage clamp system.
In my opinion as a mechanical and electrical engineer, Wago has been an outstanding choice of products for power connections.
Can you believe, Americans and Canadians still think those crappy twist nuts are a better choice!
Wire nuts are cheaper, which seems to be their only advantage. And they're so lo-tech there doesn't seem to be a counterfeiting problem.
DIY or pro, Wago is almost certainly the go to over here. A three-way Wago is electrically identical to a Y connector, isn't it?
It is, but I was talking more about something in-line similar to a butt-crimp, but in a Y-configuration. If you're splicing into a tight cable, there isn't always enough slack to parallel the wires using the three-way connectors. There is a product that will suffice though, the Hager J803. Ideal for splicing into a tight ring cable to run a new spur.
Did you replace all the ones you’d already fitted? Did you let CEF know? Why name CEF but not that brand? That brand may well be a fire hazard and probably sold elsewhere, don’t you have a duty to identify it?
Hager do a great three way 32amp JB which will accept up to 4mm
Yes, the J803 which is our go-to these days for splicing into ring wiring to take off a new spur.
wow, twisting trick!
your very funny I like all your vids
helpful, thanks
My impression is that these although maintenance free still need to be accessible so cannot be buried
The instructions provided with the Wagobox enclosures describe how to install and de-rate these connectors "...in situations where you need to install a Wagobox in an inaccessible location". Of course, this is in the UK where BS7671 regulation 526.3 applies so long as the equipment is compliant with BS5733 as these are. Other territories may not permit such.
Did you not tug test?
It's on PornHub.
I thought the connectors are only rates for one time use, only the wago with the leaver can be re used. As far as I know Here we don't re use these connectors
The push-fit connectors can be reused; to extract the wire, pull and twist until it comes out. The removed conductor is generally in a better condition than one which has been tightly clamped in a conventional screw terminal, but I like to restrip it back to a clean end in case the conductor has been weakened by the twisting. I don't know how many re-insertions these type of connectors are rated for, but if it grips when re-inserted and doesn't let go when tugged, then I'd imagine you're okay. If in any doubt however, sling it in the bin and use a fresh one!
How do you permanently join electrical cable?
BS7671 recognises certain connections as being semi-permanent such as crimps, welds and solder joints.
@@dsesuk Thanks for that info. cheers.
Sorry to be commenting so late on this one Mr S, but do you REALLY trust the push-fit Wagos in a maintenance-free situation? Especially the 6mm variety?
I particularly like the lever Wagos in all flavours, at least because it's a) compliant and b) effing quick.
I just don't trust the push-fit system, that's all.
Now, go and have a very Merry Christmas, call Nige a tosser from me (only joking Nige, you're a legend)....and enjoy some Special Brew in a Babycham glass with an olive. You crusty old spark you ;)
Hi Ade. Yes, I've never had a problem with proper brand push-fits (Wago, HellermannTyton, Ideal etc.) If they're good enough for BSi, then that'll do for me! I'll be sure to pass your seasonal greeting on to Nigel! Bottoms up!
You said you would use these in floors. Why? What happens if you have a leak?
I wouldn't run electrical services in locations prone to flooding, at least, not unless they were rated for that environment. If you're not referring to a flood risk area and you mean an accident that might happen such as a water main bursting, then all bets are off. I don't install circuits that are guaranteed resistant to unforeseen external influences that it would be unreasonable to try and guard against. If a pipe bursts, your dinner catches fire on the stove or an aeroplane crashes into your roof, the electrical installation may be damaged and require repair, but until those things or similar incidents occur, there's no need to worry about it.
@@dsesuk Yes, I'm referring exactly to a pipe bursting or even someone spilling a bucket of water accidentally. It's likely to happen and if that floor is wood, then the connection is completely unprotected.
I don't know what things are like where you are, but here we don't get frequent burst pipes or bucket spillages to have to second-guess our electrical installations. They're not events that are likely to happen, more freak occurrences to be dealt with if and when necessary.
Loved it.👍
Are you saying that City Electrical Factors is stocking Counterfeit Wago connectors? Because that is what these are! I think that one has been damaged and re used by somebody yanking a cable out of the damaged port and damaging the spring.
Should never have been reused.
No, as someone earlier pointed out, they're not 'fake' Wagos, they're wannabe Wagos - they look exactly the same, but come in their own packaging under a different name. It was a sealed packet, so not a unit that had been previously used.
They aren't counterfeit as they weren't branded as Wago.
Yes but that would be only suitable for a spur. But a ring main needs a 30 amp rating. Wago are 24 but tool station have something that looks identical ( this may be the imposter) they are rated at 32. Hope this helps my concern is that viewers may think these wago can join a ring but this is not the case!
Ah, I see what you're saying, however the Wago 24A connectors are suitable for use in a ring configuration. Remember that 2.5mm cable is itself rated at less than 30A, but nevertheless can be protected by a 30A fuse or 32A breaker in a ring configuration so long as the ring is intact. An intact ring effectively gives you 5mm CSA of cabling with the load split over two cables. If the ring is broken then a 24A wago is at no greater risk of overload then the 2.5mm cable passing through it which has the same sort of rating. This is why it is important to have periodic inspections to check for ring breaks, and if the cause cannot be identified or rectified, then the circuit downgraded. A client won't see a ring break as all their sockets are still working so they may raise their eyebrows when you tell them it's something that needs fixing! Also, trying to track a break on an old circuit that has been modified over the years can be a hopeless task! Personally I avoid installing rings and prefer 20A radial circuits on new installations. Just to add, the ones sold in Toolstation are rated higher as you say and are not the imposters I've looked at here. They are made by In-Sure and they are a perfectly valid alternative to Wago. I've used many In-Sure models myself without issue, and had I thought about it instead of just blindly ranting and wanting to go back to my cup of tea then I would have mentioned In-Sure in the video!
Thanks for keeping me from cheaping out. I'll stick to the brand
yea, i was wondering about no name brand too. since everything is made in china 🇨🇳 anyhow.
I’m about change my living room light and I’m using the wago connectors but there is not enough room in my ceiling to put the wago junction box,,just wondering if I will be fine just sticking the connectors in to the ceiling on there own,,,,,I’m getting rid of the ceiling rose
Ah yes, the pain of three-plate wiring and where to shove it all when you install a new luminaire that doesn't accommodate it! I talked about this in my Quickwire video and in a Free Advice article on my website as it is a common, and annoying, problem. As you say, sometimes it isn't practical to make a hole large enough to contain an enclosure. It's up to you as the man on the ground (or up the ladder) as to how you proceed. If doing it by the book, then those single insulated wires and their connectors should be contained in an enclosure of some kind, be it a Wagobox or something similar that's made for that job, or they should be located in the base of the new light fitting if it's big enough. Having the wires enclosed minimises shock risk and helps to contain a fire if a poorly wired junction starts arcing. If enclosing them simply isn't practical, then you wouldn't be the first person to wrap them up in electrical tape and shove them above the ceiling! Doing that wouldn't comply with the wiring regs, but if it's your own home and you're happy that it's wired correctly (minimising an arc risk), and there's no ongoing shock risk, then it's up to you as to how you proceed. Or to cut a long story short (too late), either make a bigger hole to contain the enclosure and then make good the damage, or tape, shove and live with it unenclosed! The risk assessment is yours to make, and it's down to you to decide what's practical and safe. If in doubt, call in a local electrician for advice, but check they are well rated and trustworthy first as most of them out there wouldn't think twice about a tape-and-shove with screw blocks instead of the better, but more expensive, Wago connectors!
When doing rewire/new builds I usually take my loop feed wires to the switch boxes as more and more customer desire downlighters and other decorative fittings, the 3 plate ceiling pendant is a thing of the past.
Very true. I notice the new-builds going up around me have also abandoned three-plate (fortunately).
The push in one looks like it would ruin the copper after 3 removals. I'd go with 221
Often best to re-trim after a removal to ensure it hasn't been weakened.
Vargo, Yah! By the way CE means "Chinese Export", "Check Everything".
@Ellis The DJ I know, I was joking.
I would never re-use these push in connectors
I think the wago push-in connectors are rubbish. The wago leverlock connectors are excellent, however.
Have you ever seen any fake wago lever connectors? I can’t find them locally. I’m worried about ordering online and getting fakes.
You didn't finish your Tea. Sacrilege! :P
Hi David. You said that you would be liable 'seeing as it's OUR fault that it failed', but would you? Be liable, I mean.
Component failure is surely manufacturers fault.
I had need to replace an outside security light that had been up only a couple of weeks (one of five I installed at the same address).
That particular brand had been reliable up until then (three or four dozen installed without incident), and I did replace it free of charge for the sake of goodwill but IF any fail, say, six months down the line, I would feel totally justified charging the client, certainly for labour costs, though I would insist on a refund from the supplier.
Am I wrong?
(Oh, incidentally, I am reliably informed that Wago is indeed pronounced 'Vaa- go', like in Volkswagen.)
No, you're not wrong, it just depends on what terms you offer. I put a no-quibble 24 month warranty on anything I install if the client pays in full within five days of receiving the invoice. If they pay late, then only the manufacturer warranty applies, so in that circumstance I could charge labour for replacing or faultfinding on failures. When a failure does occur prematurely on a value item of equipment, I will return it for exchange/refund to avoid being out of pocket any more than I have to. It's up to you to set what terms and conditions to work by, so as long as you're not affecting anybody's statutory rights and your terms are up-front (on your website, written estimates etc.)
Technically, if you supply the product you are liable as the reseller. Unless the client specifies a particular product or you were a subcontractor then you would normally be liable for the total cost of a remedy. If you worked for a contractor, they would primarily be responsible as the final reseller of your work
Just to clarify please are you saying some way is are faked lookalikes?
These look exactly like Wago's, but are from a different brand. I won't name the brand for fear of legal bother, but they continue to retail in my local branch of CEF.
@@dsesuk thank you very much. May I ask if they are actually branded as wago? I'm really concerned about my stock.
@@mr.d7372 No, these are not branded as Wago, they are a different brand which look the same.
@@dsesuk in that case they're not actually 'fake wagos' as they're not purporting to be wago's, but 'clones' of them ...
George from asda 🤣
Or Screwfix 😂
I cannot wait for every connection inside a CU to be Wago.
your coffee is getting cold
Probably wouldn’t of happened if you had done the old fashioned tug test !
I'm well versed in the fine action of regular tugging off, but this one still caught me by surprise.
The high cost of low price. Stick with the real stuff WAGO!
I have had similar problems with push in connections on light fittings, the cable came out with the slightest pull , I swapped them for connector blocks to fix that but not good imo
I have been buying the fake ones and I had no problem with them at all I trust one supplier on eBay and they are the cheapest
Seen both WAGO and other shit. I tend to stick with the quality brands, i would'nt want to hack up someone's Sunday best to route out a dodgy shitty connection. It may save a few bob, but when it goes wrong, it can cost more than the jobs worth.
Im not an electrician but i am pretty sure here in America you cant have an nonserviceable junctions but i could be wrong
From other comments I've seen, I believe you're right James, that seems to be the case for other countries too.
That’s because all junctions would be accessible in the USA because all your walls are made of paper and are hollow and only have to survive until the next hurricane/forest fire/earthquake.😉
Spring clips will fail...if abused and reused. No matter OEM or Fake.
The thermal cycle of these make them worthless. If one has an intermittent load, it will loose its grip over time.
I've had no problems personally in the years I have been using Wago products, but I agree that a poor connection such as that exhibited by this other brand would have the capability for a localised heat build-up through high resistance. Anything that joins two wires together may be subject to stress, but so long as the connectors, and by extension the cables, are operating within their design parameters, then there shouldn't be any significant thermal loading where the cable is securely clamped. If they're getting warm, something is wrong with the design or modification of the circuit - or your connector is a dodgy knock-off like this one! JW posted a good video where he pushed a Wago and other types of connector well past their design limits, and although the plastic eventually melted, there was no failure in the electrical connection, at least not until the wire itself gave up. Of course, that was a one-off test rather than cycling over time, but if you have any test data to show otherwise then do please post a link here as it would be worth a look.
The idea that's troubling, is the idea that the Wago CAUSED the resistance which CAUSED the failure. THEN we have a problem. I think that its quite possible that Wago's are actually fine MECHANICAL connections, doing quite alright, at least with the Lever ones, but create resistance which causes problems for the wires. Murphy's law ish type deal.
A troubling prospect indeed, although remember it wasn't a Wago in this case, but an impostor which very much looked like the real thing, and was only distinguishable from such through the missing Wago logo if examined closely using a magnifying glass!
Oh I wasn't talking about this case here. A video was done by John Ward, "Wire Connectors Overloaded". A real ( I am assuming) Wago was put under overload with other connectors, and the connection failed before the Wago. The idea is, the Wago will be fine, but perhaps resistance could build up prior to it and cause failures. It was at ridiculous over current of course, *but still, how much resistance, under a continuous heavy legal load, can these handle. That is the mystery that has yet to be solved, although a test would not be the hardest in the world to preform.*
Ah yes, a good video by JW. The outer plastic burned up, but as you say the wire itself failed before the internal metallic connector had a chance to break. Personally, I don't see these being any greater risk than a traditional crimp connection. In fact, I'd favour a Wago over a crimp as I've seen crimped connections which look sound, but fail a decent tug-test. Of course, any kind of wiring splice is at risk of eventual mechanical failure, but if you're installing them to the local regulatory requirements and to the manufacturer's instructions then that's as much as any installer can do!
The other brand may have been Wan*os
Very interesting buddy. Although sometimes your voice got a little soft and harder to make out but otherwise very informative :)
Phil McKibben Apologies, I have now bought a proper microphone for any future waffling!
David Savery Electrical Services no need to apologise. I'm grateful for the in depth information from someone qualified as yourself. If I miss the odd word or 2 it's not the end of the world. Thanks again buddy
Connections must always be done in junction boxes and boxes must always be accessible.
Agreed - where practical. BS7671 regulation 513.1 requires every electrical joint to be accessible and any good circuit design would allow for this, but this becomes impractical in retrofit applications where you have no choice but to splice into existing wiring which may then be covered over. Pulling up a floorboard to install a junction for a new spur is all well and good, but if the homeowner then covers it with a laminate floor then getting access to it again would be costly and difficult. You wouldn't want to use a screw junction as the screw may work loose over time so this is where the maintenance free requirement comes in. Regulation 526.3 again states the need for all connections to be accessible but then lists six exceptions, one of which is equipment complying with BS5733, carrying the MF logo and installed to the manufacturer's instructions. Wago push-fit and clamp connectors would comply, as well as crimp or solder joints, but they need to be derated as per Wago's instructions and installed in a Wagobox or other similar MF rated enclosure. Of course, your local wiring regulations may differ if you're not in the UK.
@@dsesuk you mean practicable... but also could be practical 😋.
@@relobmit Quite right. In my defence I did only get a grade D in GCSE English back in 1990 so there's bound to be the odd slip!
@@dsesuk that's an 'A' in 2018 prices 🤣
@@relobmit You may be right considering the number of messages I get with 'u', '2' and American spellings interspersed among the text. It's just not cricket!
HAHAHAHA I'm not a huge fan.......I use a lot of them!!!
the 2020 chinese copies are EXCELLENT
So the Chinese copies of the Chinese manufactured connectors are good!
Stuart Arnold Yes!
@@carforumwanker According to John Ward they are, so who am I to disagree.
Stuart Arnold who cares about him . Never liked his movies anyway
I suspect that he doesn't really care.