Regarding statues moving themselves - you missed the part where the Forgotten Temple statue raises herself up after getting power from the three springs. It's definitely something they can do.
Also, the wellspring ones refer to the forgotten temple one as if they were separate entities. Just like the lookout landing bargainer mentions its brothers as if each statue was someone else.
@@Aladato then do any of them actually channel the goddess, or just live as their own entities, like Fi? The Forgotten Temple one should be the oldest, likely being the same one as in Skyward Sword, so if any do, I'd assume that one does. Though, it still existed at the same time as Hylia so even that won't add up.
@xinpingdonohoe3978 What I always assumed is that the Goddess is in all of the Goddess statues, but the statues are not one and the same. So basically, they're all the Goddess, but since they're all different statues, they are not the same entity. Basically H (Hylia) Gds (Goddess statues H = gds1 H = gds 2 H = gds 3 Gds1 = H Gds2 = H Gds3 = H But Gds 1 ≠ gds 2 Gds 2 ≠ gds 3 Etc.
@@TheMaskedNate you'll have to explain it in a different way. Equality is transitive, so I don't really follow. Maybe set theory would work. Something like H ⊇ {Gds k : 1≤k≤n} if there are n Goddess statues. Or maybe not.
This. They even distinguish specifically that they care not for the ideas of good and evil, because they are steadfast in their purpose of guiding all souls and spirits to whatever afterlife exists within the BotW/TotK universe. I don't think they are even affiliated with the horned statue, although I do find it plausible that Hylia would have a divine opposite.
Never implied the God of Darkness, or the Bargainer Statues were evil. Because they make deals with anyone, regardless of their moral alignment, this could be perceived as evil but they are simply just non biased. They don't care what the deals are or who they deal with, so long as an exchange is made.
The bargainers are strictly neutral, they state this precise thing.. but in the over all equation.. they represent the balance between light and dark.. (imo)
But they are the opposite of good kinda. As instead of being an extreme like good or evil they are as you said, neutral. Neutrality is not good nor evil and non of its actions can really be said to be either. Thus its the other extreme. Good and evil being one set of extremes, Neutrality the other side...
In art terminology, the space around a subject is called “negative space” so the three pieces of the triforce when joined create a void of negative space, no need for a physical dark piece when it’s place is implied
Exactly what I thought, thereby it could also mean that the goddesses try to restrain the darkness. Ergo, why it isn’t visible. Ergo, that the goddesses wouldn’t be there if the negative space got filled up. Quite a nice add-up to the theory on this video, because followed by the video there was only a god of chaos before the 3 goddesses showed up, as if the negative spaced triangle already was there and the 3 triangles being there for restraining the chaos. I always love good symbolism, something never really being done in the corporate world, because it mostly lacks consistency of symbolism, it can’t be done simple, even though the result might seem simple or ‘fairy’ (dutch, zweverig). But when it comes to games and world-building I think symbolism is something worthwhile in the right setting. Maybe one of the reasons I tend to love Zelda more and more, it’s kind of world-building with world-building right? It’s a way that makes art experiential, because it is about experience and ways to look at things. Sometimes I don’t care about creators confirming theories, I just like to see meaning in stuff that goes further and deeper into the game and not waiting to be it confirmed by creators, there is also a different sense of feeling, how obvious the designer could put the symbolism in it. And when those symbolism align up in a literal sense (Triforce design stuff),it really makes me awe-inspiring with goosebumps, just because it fits in my head, and that’s enough for me. That’s my presentation, any questions? 😆
Dude, with echoes of wisdom, the golden goddesses locking a evil deity into the earth has been confirmed its name is Null. Its nuts this was a year ago.
Maybe Nintendo is still trying to keep botw a mystery on where it’s placed in the timeline. That’s why they named events from many previous games, to keep us confused. Idk tho
I think the sad truth is Nintendo never really intended to have a solid and coherent timeline and it wanted to separate itself as far as possible from fan speculation
I feel like it is faaaaaaar into the future and zelda traveled just after skyward sword when hyrule started to become a thing on the ground. Idk why people dont like that
@@floopsfooglie213 Because then what is the point of the TotK seal on Ganondorf? If placed after Skyward Sword, then he shouldn't be able to inflict the damage he does in OoT, TP, WW etc. Also, why are Sophia's physical traits quite different from SS Link and Zelda? Why does nobody mention the Triforce in the ancient past? Shouldn't the royal family be in possession of it, if we go by SS's ending? How did the Gerudo establish as a people?
I love the idea that Demise is essentially a Dark Goddess's chosen Knight, fighting to defend their chaotic land from the invading Golden Goddesses. Such a cool idea and I wish I could play that game now.
It also works as a mythologization of the implied political history between Hyrule and the Gerudo. This ruling empire imposed itself upon another people that they viewed as "lawless" and "chaotic," but this Demon King (Ganondorf) rose up to try and stop them
The most interesting part about the tetraforce theory, in my opinion, is that it’s the only fan theory that Nintendo has not only acknowledged, but outright refuted
In reference to the Tetraforce theory, there’s also four goddesses in Hyrule: Faron, Farore, Nayru, and Hylia. The Four Sword split Link into four. Four elements. Four main races on the outskirts of Hyrule. Even the Fierce Deity has an upside down piece of the triforce on his breastplate
What I found interesting is that the Bargainer Statue in the Great Abondoned Mine looks like it was partially excavated before the Zonai decided to just build their structures around them. I wonder if after they found that one, they took it upon themselves to find the rest. Some only partially uncovered.
It seems one of those yiga reports mentions that the bargainer statue took the soul from one of them on getting near it. The Zonai on their mining operations might have exposed their locations so people would avoid having their souls snatched.
@@freshlymemed5680 Good point, that's what they said to us. The poor Yiga have been on this quest for thousands of years, so the bargainer did not hesitate to rapture one of them. Sad indeed.
One of the Bargainer Statues in the Depths is standing fully unobstructed out in the open. I wonder if the Zonai even discovered them, but may have been instructed to in exchange for something.
@@AladatoThe Yiga report is reporting on a rumor. Even if it were true, that's not telling the full story; did the Yiga who supposedly lost his soul try to damage it or something? Who knows?
It seems far more likely that Botw and TotK happen after the other games in the split timelines. That means even when Zelda went back in time, she was still after those games. The reasoning for this is the existence of the Rito, who were present in TotK's past that Zelda travels to. They didn't exist before the original Imprisoning War. That means the Imprisoning War in TotK is a new one. Because of her references of past games in BotW, that seems to imply that at some point the split timelines reconverged at some point in the legendary past, before the Zonai descended. Most likely some hereforeto unknown cataclysm wiped out most of Hyrulian civilization and it wasn't until it recovered enough for Rauru to come down and forge it into a kingdom that the pieces for the eternal conflict could resume.
This, exactly. Let's say Zelda went back 20,000 years (10,000 before the first calamity Ganon, 10,000 years ago): It would still have been many generations after all the previous events, lost to time. The "imprisoning war" mentioned within totk would be the second imprisoning war in truth. Seemingly, the unification of the timeline happened when the entire world was torn asunder on a massive scale, affecting each timeline. After this event (likely aided by the goddesses), all 3 worlds were combined to create the "prime" earth* represented in the new setting. Either way, great work, love and peace folks!
@@stickinittotheman1 It would actually likely be just another in a number of Imprisoning Wars throughout time. Lots of events bear similarities to the one mentioned in ALTTP and could be referred to as such.
"Unknown cataclysm"? It was the flood. When the timelines converged the Great Flood was still around. The only Hyrule that survived was New Hyrule (and possibly Eastern Hyrule, which might be the same place). When the waters finally receded the Hyrulean peoples returned to their homeland and Sonia and Rauru re-founded Hyrule. Also the Zonai descend from the Oocca, who in turn descend from the Wind Tribe.
I love the idea that the hole inside the Triforce is a fourth dark piece. And that a god created chaos before the other three came down and enclosed it. But in reality I think Nintendo just did a hard restart of the whole series with breath of the wild them tears of the Kingdom, which doesn’t make my heart happy.
Actually I heard of a theory that totk and botw is actually a parallel timeline. Where this parallel universe still has similar events that plays out in its own timeline. Kind of like a canon event from Spider-Man across the spiderverse. This is my own personal head canon and feels better to me than just admitting that they’re doing a hard reset 🥲
@drekagaming That's the only way to force the new canon into the existing canon: just kind of shove it in there 😂 Yeah, honestly, these two games are just a reboot.
I think the fourth piece being the light force instead of an evil counterpart to the goddesses is more likely since Din blessing Ganondorf in twilight princess would indicate they they are all neutral or that Din is the rebellious if not straight up evil one
Twilight Princess' statues kinda implied that the proto-Gerudo were retainers to a Din focused religion and like, the hatred of Demise or the entity of Ganon didn't technically enter the Gerudo bloodline until the twinrova hags performed some sort of ritual, so I tend to gravitate more towards the Gerudo just being associated with power and Din in general and that the golden goddesses themselves did not really care about Hyrule after creating it and their blessings from the triforce are very neutral. Although, depending on how you choose to interpret the Oracles games... maybe the golden goddesses didn't actually leave the physical world after creating Hyrule, but rather just flew across the ocean and did it all over again in Holodrum and Labrynna and then incarnated themselves as the Oracles to have fun with mortals and that THIS is why the Oracles games begin with Link while Hyrule is already at peace after his previous adventure being called by the Triforce itself to go on an adventure in a foreign land...
In a ton of creation myths and stories the word “chaos” is not the definition we know well of disorder and craziness but it usually means nothing or emptiness (like in the Greek Creation Myth), so in the creation story they meant that there was nothing until the 3 goddesses created the world of hyrule not that there was a world of war and chaos before the golden goddesses made hyrule
Worth noting is that "Void" (sometimes rendered as "Ether") is considered a classical element in Japanese folklore in the same basic way that the Greeks used Air, Earth, Fire, and Water.
Im a big believer in placing BOTW and TOTK in their own timeline since there is a timeline split in Skyward Sword that nobody really talks about that they would fit really well into.
Skyward Sword does effectively seem to be the one game that BotW and TotK never contradict in their lore. And it is worth noting that SS was the last 3D Zelda before BotW, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's more or less a direct sequel.
Also, rewatching a botw video, it seems their gerudo noticed that no more male gerudos were ever born after the demon king, that from the champion book before totk came out. In this case this SS timeline split makes even more sense, as only one Ganondorf ever existed, so the ocarina one would be in a different timeline as suggested.
is the split you are mentioning, the timeline branch that Ghirahim causes when he takes Zelda back to the past and revives Demise? If that's the split you are talking about, I would agree that botw and totk are in the original Skyward Sword timeline where there are no Link, Zelda, Ghirahim, Demise or his curse, and Groose
Nintendo: “THERE IS NO HIDDEN 4TH PIECE!” Also Nintendo: “In Twilight Princess there are 4 Light Beasts and 3 of them are named after the Golden Goddesses.”
Except if Ordona (the light beast that doesn't reference one of the three goddesses) is supposed to be the stand in for this theoretical evil god, why is he a spirit of the light in the first place? He should be on the side of the Twilight and he's clearly not. Ordona is not the only time in the Zelda series that a fourth major element is introduced alongside the three goddess: in Majora's Mask a time goddess is mentioned and there are the Four Links for the Four Sword games and minish cap. My guess? Whenever said fourth element is present is supposed to be a stand in for Hylia which is a goddess after all.
The Light Spirits aren't the Golden Goddesses - just their namesake. "Eldin" is named after Din; "Faron" after Farore; "Lanayru" after Nayru - "Ordona" is the only one that isn't named after one of the goddesses. These Light Spirits look over the regions named after them: Ordon, Faron, Eldin, and Lanayru. They're what's often referred to in mythology and fantasy as "lesser gods"; they work in service to the "higher gods".
First real "you lost me" point, the bargainer statues needing to be connected to a dark god to speak through the hylia statues has no backing. It would be slightly more acceptable saying they were connected to hylia herself since there's at least the evidence that one of them can speak through her statue. The entire Demise's origin theory section relies on that dark god assertion which still has no evidence to stand on and twists it into another 'the villain was the good guy all along'. There is no need for the timeline to have converged, it would only be necessary for a a convergence based theory. For zelda to get back to tears of the koroks it would just be a matter of the timeline that the game takes place in occuring as usual. If Totk wasn't just a reboot of the entire series anyway.
Why would they need to hijack a Goddess Statue if they were connected to Hylia? If that were the case, then the Goddess Statue, without being taken over, could have just told us about the predicament that the Bargainer Statue was in and ask us to help him. They're definitely not directly connected to the same diety if they're having to take control over the opposing sides statues.
@GossipGeist How could they hijack a goddess statue if they weren't connected to Hylia? We know of 4 goddesses currently in the Zelda universe. If any being of sufficient strength like you implied could take over the statue, then why do the 3 golden goddesses not interact that way? Also how do you arive to the conclusion Demise is not a reflection of Hylia? It was said in skyward sword he was the source of all monsters. His blade seeming to be an inverted version of the master sword does not prove he was the "chosen warrior" we know Hylia and her incarnations can wield the master sword. It is unknown if she can remove the blade from it's pedestal but we know from TOTK that the blade is still connected to her bloodline.
I like the idea more and more of BotW and TotK being a new timeline that has some of the same historical events of the original but sort of remixed. So much of TotK’s history feels almost like a retelling or reimagining of OoT to me-we see the Ganondorf bowing to the king scene (where Zelda looks on and knows that it’s a lie), Link having to travel to regional temples and awaken new incarnations of ancient sages, and the ancient Sage of Light, the one who built the Temple of Time, who hasn’t reincarnated (Rauru. He may be the king, but he battles with the sages and has light powers.) the secret stones could even be called a new version of the medallions. I think this new timeline might even be one where the Triforce was forgotten, or hidden so well that no one remembers it.
A bit of a small spoiler, but the Triforce, the whole thing is seen on the back of Zelda's hand in TotK. She might actually have all 3 pieces which could explain why it's never really talked about in the games. Nobody even knew that the daughters of the Royal Family were inheriting it all this time.
@@GossipGeist I don’t know, I don’t think having a Triforce mark on your hand has to mean you have the Triforce. Link has the full, three piece mark in Skyward Sword, because he’s worthy to use the Triforce, not only when he actually uses it
@@literallywhy6162Having the mark of the Triforce on your hand usually means you have it like with Hilda and Yuuga Ganon and everywhere else in the series. Plus it could be that he awakens the Triforce after each Secret Realm he does like how Twilight Princess Link awakened his piece once he entered into the Twilight zones.
@@GossipGeistSonia has it tattooed on her in at least one place. So it’s not entirely forgotten, as it appears long before the royal crest really appears. And Twilight princess just showed the whole Triforce on the wielder’s hand, not the specific part iirc
@TheCBoysDotCom The royal crest of Hyrule is the Triforce and the Crimson Loftwing, due to the Hylians being the "bird folk" and the Goddess Hylia's chosen people, and the existence of the Triforce and the Sacred Realm being a secret kept and passed down through the Royal Family, the princess of which is the reincarnation of the Goddess Hylia in human form. It's all tied together with a neat little bow on top - the lore all made sense up until Skyward Sword, and it worked retroactively to tie it all together even more. BotW and TotK don't function as seamlessly, neither with the old lore nor even really with each other. The real-world explanation is that they're just anthology games that mention old names and lore in passing to serve as Easter eggs, and the Zonai not only weren't planned but didn't even exist in BotW - Zonai was just the name of one of about a dozen sets of ruins with the same architecture, but people on the internet speculated (wildly) until Nintendo threw them in in place of the "wild people of Faron" that they had introduced in BotW; thus simultaneously erasing the Wild people and killing all sorts of lore that could have been built.
Interesting... there has been a prominent theme of fours in botw/totk, after all. Perhaps the god of darkness was responsible for Ganondorf's escape from imprisonment in Twilight Princess? Perhaps it was more deliberate than just some "divine prank".
Caught your last TOTK video and I was surprised you were a relatively small channel. The audio quality, editing and content are all definitely up to par, big fan of how well put together everything is. And you're good at talking, theorizing and adding a little personality into things. Keep at it, man. I think you're definitely headed somewhere.
This was more lore and education than I have EVER hoped to receive. Whether it was about the goddess Hylia, the horned statue, the triforce/tetraforce, what the 3 dragons of hyrule did during its creation, and demise and the dark god. This whole video was a BLAST! Thanks
the bargainer statue being underneath the temple of time in the sky, there's a sidequest that when you finish, a construct tell you it actually used to be grounded
4:49 correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't hylia only reincarnate as the first zelda? Every time after we hear about zelda, we only get "the blood of the goddess hylia", not hylia herself. Therefore its possible after her reincarnation died, she just asciended back to the heavens and resumed her duties as the goddess of light.
I haven't watched a lot of your videos (admittedly just the draconification one before this), but I'm SO glad someone has talked about the converging timeline theory. I was already solidly in the boat after going through BOTW twice, but TOTK really sealed the deal, mainly with the reference armor sets. Previously amiibo-locked, you could find ALL of them in the depths (except for the Link's Awakening armor set, which you DO find on the surface, which is interesting in and of itself.) Since they're now part of the base game as opposed to fun little add-ons (they still are, but you can now get them BOTH ways), same with the BOTW DLC additions (Majora's Mask, Zant's Helm, and Midna's Helmet), it sort of confirms in and of itself the timeline having to converge at some point. The only thing I would disagree with is the time and place Zelda gets sent back in time to: with Rauru's Hyrule, there are still the existence of the Rito, who don't exist until the Adult Timeline, meaning sometime after the timeline convergence, but before the Great Calamity of 10,000 years before BOTW/TOTK. Overall, though, a fantastic, FANTASTIC video and I look forward to watching more of your content!
The Imprisoning War in TOTK is almost certainly the second “imprisoning war”. I still think you could say the timeline is convergent, mostly because it’s an interesting reading of the story, but also because the previous Links’ armors are now canon in TOTK. Just say the goddesses did it or something.
@GenMars I guess there's sort of the Yiga wearing disguises too. One of them even disguises as Zelda on the Great Plateau. Still not as good as it could be though.
You are a genius theorist and I LOVE it!!! I thought everyone just forgot about the Tetra Force theory. I think this does make a lot of sense, especially when looking at the series through a Japanese cultural lense. Keep up the great work! I really like your theories and how to tend to ignore any information not in the games themselves. I would imagine that the Japanese audience has a deeper understanding of Zelda than we do in the West.
Coming together of the Triforce to seal chaos makes perfect sense. Every time we see the Triforce shattered chaos, ensues in essence, unleashing chaos once again.
i’m really liking your content, i love the idea that there is some type of metaphorical tetra force and anti hylia, but one think i wondered was maybe instead of hylia moving the statue instead it was actually zelda? i mean when she moved into the hateno village house it was directly in front of her… perhaps she took some initiative and moved it herself while the statue mistook her for hylia since she technically is
I'm so glad someone else noticed that the three Goddesses "descended upon the chaos that was Hyrule", meaning Hyrule had to have existed beforehand. Din absolutely sealed the Depths beneath the Surface, which is why demons came up through fissures in the earth before Skyward Sword.
The problem with that theory is all the Zonai stuff in the depths. That stuff was originally on the surface as said so byt he Constructs themselves. So that means that the Depths in TOTK was originally the surface, but the goddesses would have created the lands prior to Zonai which means that in order for your theory to be true, there would have to be an entirely different layer of Depths even further below the one we see in TOTK and I just don't see any real evidence for that
@@Wertologistyes the forges ect but they started the mines after discovering the depths and I think you might be confusing the sky islands with the depths
I absolutely love this! Your theory makes so much sense and brings together so many questions I’ve had for the longest time. Unless something major changes, to me this is basically canon.
I don’t know about the theory regarding the bargainer, their dialogue seems to imply they’re neutral, while the concept behind and the dialogue with the horned statue seems to imply that they’re to some degree more evil, and the Zelda series seems to quite often have a distinction between darkness as an element of nature and as it relates to evil. For example, a lot of games have darkness represented with the sages while also having it represented by the antagonist
I've subscribed to that precise idea as a personal philosophy for a long time. There's the natural "darkness" that is of night and shadow. It "moves aside" for light, and gives the contrast which makes light observable at all. It encompasses concepts such as void and emptiness - space, the substrate of existence, through which everything else - light included - moves. And then on the other hand you have what's really just better called evil, but is frequently called "darkness" too because we have such a paucity of useful descriptive words that make distinctions like this in English. It seeks to blot out light, not to serve it. At any rate, it's thrilling to me to see these ideas advance on a large scale thanks to popular accessible works like the Zelda series.
In the kakiriko mine the yiga notebook (I think) states that one of the statues took a yiga members soul despite the e member not dying. Considering the Yiga and demon king are unofficial teammates this doesn’t make sense. What doesn’t make sense is that link is on Zelda’s side but also on the bargainer statues sides who in this vid are seen to be evil as well as the horned statue.
Phenomenal editing. I feel like I'm seeing the birth of a channel with 1 million subscribers - that brief point in time before it gets noticed and takes off. Hopefully the UA-cam algorithm is kind to you, since you deserve it.
@@GossipGeistYou tried to solve 3 theories in the Zelda franchise in 17 minutes, and have 3.67K subs as of now. If the algorithm doesn't like you, then A) UA-cam needs a better algorithm B) Someone (**wink wink**) may try to hire a hacker to get the algorithm to show you to more people
the best theory I've heard so far about the horned god and the bargainers, makes me think they might not be part of the tetra force, but everyone seems to forget Lorule is a thing and had it's own triforce restored, the upside down triforce I've always wondered if it has it's own gods attached to each piece, or was Lorule a product of the three standard goddesses creation. What if the bargainers and the horned god are just two of the lorulean gods, that when their world finally did fall had to reach into Hyrule for worship.
There's also a parallel between this and the Four Sword in Minish cap too. The sword is restored by first receiving the Earth element, and then the elements often associated with the other Goddesses (since in OOT the magic powers you receive are associate with 2 of those elements, but with Nayru's power being called Nayru's love instead of something associated with water). So if the God or Goddess of Chaos does exist they are likely associated with the color purple. And purple is usually associated with Shadow, rather than Earth in Zelda games (which would make sense if the Goddess of Darkness/Shadow/Chaos was the Goddess that made the planet or Earth, and the other Goddesses just overwrote it). Also the Shadow Medallion in OOT features an upside down purple triangle, surrounded by 3 circles while the Light Medallion features 3 gold triangles facing in more of an upward direction also with 3 circles, like the pattern shown in this video that was believed to be associated with the 3 eyes the Zonai have, or the 3 Goddesses. And then Lorule, a parrallel version of Hyrule, where the power of the Goddesses was fading away because the Triforce was destroyed, all the parallel versions of characters that usually have yellow hair, the color of Hylia's hair as well as the triforce, have purple hair instead. Like the yellow color of the Light Medallion and the purple color of the Shadow Medallion. Also the power of the goddesses being lost drove the land into chaos and made all plants start to die, like how it was before they used their powers to form the lands of Hyrule.
It's insane thinking that the God of Darkness's champion Demise was on-par with the Golden Goddesses's champion Hylia, but couldn't beat Hylia's champion Link (basically two subordinates down from the "Good Guys" VS one subordinate down from the "Bad Guys"). We can't forget that Demise is Hylia's equal. Or at least they were. I'd not be a friend of a hard reboot, because it'd discard a motherload or lore and history and condemn it to "optional status".
It makes sense that demise is the chosen hero of darkness, if you consider the final boss fight of the demon king in totk having similar abilities to link. It was link fighting dark link
It makes a lot of sense. I agree 100%. yesterday, on twitter, I replied this: Botw is about the wilderness Totk talks about civilization, the "kingdom" There's room for trilogy, to talk about gods, now, and with a title that plays with it, breath, tears and... ??? I mean, there's a hook also. The depths (poor explained), the poe receiver...
I always figured that the Horned Statue was Chancellor Cole from Spirit Tracks. The two horns is kind of a giveaway, but Cole was also able to interact with someone's spiritual enemy, and it can be assumed that greed would be a motivator
I loved your theories, but I’m already subscribed, so I had to leave a comment. The one about the tetraforce and Demise being the knight gave chills. And that ‘not a curse’ part is what I felt, too. Of course light can’t exist without darkness. But this was great!
I have a theory. Dinraal and Naydra are the Draconified versions of Din and Nayru from the Oracle games, whilst Farosh is the person from the unreleased 3rd Oracle game
we do learn that in totk, in order for someone to become a dragon, they would have to swallow a secret stone, and since the Zonai have the knowledge of what happens when a stone is swallowed, there's standing proof that it had happened before or they wouldn't know what happens. so my personal theory, is that the reason the zonai know of such rituals is because Din, Nayru, and Farore(who have alot of supporting details that indicate they were zonai(the dragons ears, the eyes and noses too)) were the original three to swallow the stones. they might have performed the draconification ritual some time after the zonai decended(for the zonai to be able to bear witness) and also some time after they blessed the chaotic land of hyrule. they probably draconified theirselves so they could eternally watch over the land of hyrule, not knowing that they would lose all mortality once they performed the ritual.
it would also make sense for them to want to watch over hyrule since the goddesses hero was not yet prophesied prior to SS, which is more than likely when the zonai decended(right after the great war between demise and hylia), and the zonai have no records or history stating anything about a chosen hero, at least not that we're told
7:07 For some reason I assumed that the Temple of Time used to exist in the center of the Rist Peninsula (the spiral of land on the west side of the map). I think it was because that's where the final memory was and there's some ruin pillars there. Now i see that that's probably untrue since the Temple of Time was surrounded by land. Though that makes me wonder what used to be there.
Reused names are proving to be a common occurrence in Zelda lore that is starting to breed a lot of confusion. So basically: not the same Rauru, not the same Imprisoning War, not the same Ganondorf, heck, maybe not even the same Hyrule
I have a theory that the botw hyrule is some kind of new established hyrule Basically SOMETHING happened that caused a new shieka order (it is said the zonai are older than the Shieka which doesn’t sound possible.) new hyrule to be established.
I personally think that The Horned Statue is the god of evil, like Jerrin says outside of the hole, and The Bargainer Statues were a past race of Demi gods that were like Hades, guiding them through the afterlife.
Demi-gods, you say… If the Zonai were on the level of gods, maybe these beings were equal to the Zonai Also, you have to wonder what that other race down there was that’s seen in statues
You know if the three golden goddesses had a fourth sister who represented Chaos, then Demise might be her son and why he hates them, for killing his mother and that started the endless cycle of hate, just a theory but it makes sense, right?
I love a few of these theory pieces. I completely agree with the existence of a dark deity to contest goddess hylia. Due to the creation of the dark master sword. And it's animating spirit Girahim. And there has always been a source of demons, designated to be the demon realm. Or dark realm which is usually a dark mirror of Hyrule. But I have issue of it being solely demons. Because of a link between worlds where we see lowrule. Filled with regular people trying to live their lives. They even had an entire inverted triforce themselves. And Princess Hilda still seemed good. Not like a dark dimension evil Zelda. But that hitches on Lowrule, and the dark world/demon dimension being not the same mirrored reflection of Hyrule. In D&d the primary material plane has 2 mirror reflections. 1 being the feywild, and 2 being the shadowfel. What I'm thinking is that yes your theory that the golden goddess trio building an entire world on top of the primordial/demon filled world is interesting. But I think that there are multiple shadow versions of Hyrule. Each with their own casting light. I refute your idea of a real tetra force. As I always saw the 4th triangle under the shield to represent Goddess Hylia herself. The 3 golden goddesses ascended to a higher plane of existence. While Hylia stayed bound in flesh to the people. (Even though you are right, that a version of Hylia's goddess power still acts independent of Zelda in the form of the Hylia statues.
one my therorys on the timeline, is that botw and totk are on the inevitable timeline, no matter what you do, how you do it or ganon your destory. You end up here as a eventally someone will destory ganons body and unleash the calaminity. Wind Waker Link is the earlyest to do it. Four swords advanture does it. and finally the advanture of link where we watch the minons of ganon try to start the first calaminity. i get the feeling the blood of the goddess or hero is needed for the ritual. and whos mother dies just before the awakening zeldas. as for the 10-29 years after her death. "I realize a simple child like you knows nothing of magic, but spells like this take time and a steady hand!" -Giraham
BOTW & TOTK take place in the Twilight Realm. After the events of Twilight Princess the Golden Goddesses granted the realm Scared Light. The Goddesses would pop in from time to time to keep the realm from becoming desolate because of it not having a Triforce.
Yeah, knowing how absolutely awful and cruel the goddesses are already portrayed as (the cycle of damnation they keep doing throughout all the games because of demises curse, the flooding of hyrule, the banishing of the twili, other things) them coming in and ruining their sister's chaotic demon world and kicking her out seems pretty on brand. And hylia doing nothing to stop them.
This is good! I think if the Zelda team says there's no fourth piece, then there probably isn't. BUT I like your theory about it because instead of saying there's another piece, it's just saying that the fourth piece is the negative space in the middle. It works perfectly on a thematic level. The Demise's origin part was really cool too, "the sword that seals the light" just sounds metal, I love it! Long paragraph about the timeline ahead, short attention spans beware: I definitely buy into the timeline convergence theory. I've heard people say Nintendo rebooted the series or whatever because there are some contradictions, but they haven't at any point in the 6 years since BOTW came out completely changed the timeline or announced that BOTW is a reboot. All they said is that BOTW takes place at the very end of the timeline and left us to "figure it out". I'm not sure which specific theory I like best tho... Like at first, I thought the founding of Hyrule mentioned in TOTK was the same one from the end of Skyward Sword, and y'know any inconsistencies could just be the result of a story being passed down for a long time. Then I also thought, maybe the past in TOTK also takes place at the end of the timeline, after every game before BOTW and this world just has an impossibly long history. This makes a little more sense to me and I personally like it because it doesn't require past games to be reinterpreted. This way BOTW and TOTK can be "separate" and it doesn't exclude previous games from discussions about the new ones As for how the timelines actually converge, no idea. I heard one theory from Thinking At Max Volume about the possibility of a dragon break kind of thing like in Elder Scrolls where all possible timelines become equally real. I think he explains how it's possible pretty well in his video and I like it a lot, but I'll admit I had a hard time following toward the end. Definitely go check out his video if you haven't tho
Imagine if the timelines didn’t converge and in two other timelines the light dragon is just there, chilling in the raised island in the sky waiting for a none existant link to be brought to that safe place and later pull out the restored mastersword *In the other timelines botw isn’t in (if the timeline didn’t converge) we can assume the mastersword didn’t break else Zelda would be receiving 3 masterswords to heal
Oh god now I just imagine Zelda getting three broken master sword at the same time and being like: wtf … wait if that was the case wouldn’t Zelda just come back in each timelines with three mastersword. That means that Zelda would have found a duplication glitch
Another good video. I remember the first time people really started talking about the convergence theory was after Mat Pat (yes game theory) made a video. It was a very flawed video but also quite on spot. He thought that the game Hyrule Warriors (the Wii U one) suggested that a convergence of timelines is on its way. I played the game and was kinda obsessed with it as some point and ngl while it seems to not be canon, it… kinda is? Its similar to what’s happening with FNAF, where there are now books that are telling a story completely separate from FNAF and the original game characters but hint to whats going on in the actual game lore. I’m bringing this up because the convergence theory might connect your previous theory about light and dark. The whole game of Hyrule warriors is about a battle between light and dark!!! There are two non canon characters representing light and dark, the two are against one another but at last they’re sisters. I might be wrong about this, its been about a decade that I haven’t played that game but I think we see more than 3 triforces in the game too…. Tbh it was a good lore-packed game. There are lots of references and stuff thats fun to revisit before TOTK and after BOTW (stuff like textures, weapons, characters and places that we see being hinted to in TOTK a lot) I’m fairly certain this game really sparked a lot about the convergence theory specially since the literal level selection of the game is a time lime fork that converges.
I feel like the existence of the Rito during the imprisoning war kinda screws up all of the timelines. They didn't come into existence until after "Ocarina of Time's hero gets sent back" timeline. The world gets flooded with salt water and the fresh water Zora evolve into Rito to fly out and survive and exist in Wind Waker.
Yep, and the only one that allows you to see this is the Cliff Bargainer Statue. Arguably the oldest and most major one of them all, being directly under the Mother Goddess Statue from Skyward Sword.
The Imprisoning War only happens in the hero is defeated timeline--and the tears of the kingdom lore is all about that so Zelda travelled down that timeline
It isn't the same Imprisoning War, though. That's why I made the claim that BotW and TotK are in their own separate timeline that have unique but similar historical events.
@@GossipGeist That's quite possible, although there isn't any proof that there were different imprisoning war and that the two games were on their own timeline. (I think that they might be, just because of the Zonai who haven't appeared earlier in any game exept from BOTW.)
I'd really love for this to be the case, since it allows Nintendo to potentially remake a lot of older Zelda games but with a unique story twist to them.
This was a very well-thought-out and impressive theory!! And the production value in the video is so high, I really love the editing style and the shots of you talking behind the journal were really amusing. Thank you for working so hard to make such high quality content! I hope it gets the attention and respect it deserves!
Smashing together the timelines never sat well with me at all. There's no event I can think of that could make it so all the continuities converging make any sense. That said, making the original Hyrule Warriors canon to the Official Zelda timeline would give Breath Of The Wild a chance to explain how it knows about the events of the from parallel timelines. Throwing characters and locations from the Era of Twilight and the Era of the Sky etc. into a single game just long enough for their battles to become legends passed through the royal family lines up with Breath Zelda's speech if you stick Breath of the Wild some after the events of Hyrule Warriors. I know, I don't like it either. Throwing Zelda back to the "founding of Hyrule" could mean the founding of *her* Hyrule. For all we know the cataclysmic events of the Wind Waker are just one of several ends to kingdoms named "Hyrule" that have happened throughout history. There's no real need to try to squeeze Zelda past the pesky time split if it makes more sense that multiple Hyrule Kingdoms have risen and fallen ad infinitum since skyward sword and the one founded by Rauru was merely the latest one.
Definitely gave me more to think about. I can tell this is going to be a video I watch over and over so that I can think about each of your theories one or two at a time.
Just checked out your content. You've got some clean edits, clean footage and have some real potential. I suggest structuring your videos such as scripting for your more focused content. I can tell you've got drive, so keep at it and always aim to improve something with every new video, that's what I've always done so far.
Its interesting the detail Twilight princess also mentions where light cannot exist without darkness and also Gannondorf mentioning the history of light and shadow being written in blood after his defeat with link.
It’s incredible that this is the first video I’ve watched linking the apparent lack of a Tetraforce to the Japanese superstition surrounding the number 4 when, in hindsight, you’d think that it’d be one of the easier Zelda theories to come up with.
If we got to have a series that explores the history post convergence, I would love if we got to play as a Sheikah during one of their eras of growth perhaps aiding the Hero on their own quest or even a storyline unrelated to the classic Hero’s quest. The Sheikah have always been very secretive, it would be nice to explore their history more and embody all that they are ability wise, there is a lot to work with regarding their contributions to technology and protection of Hyrule.
I'm sad that Ghirahim is just dead. The master sword can be reforged, why not the evil one? That's my favorite character archetype, the Number Two who just wants to serve so badly that kinda seems like a love or obsession for their Number One. Now he's just gone.
He was pretty beat up by Link. I imagine damaging the spirit of the sword directly would probably do some irreversible damage. Fi being untouched and in perfect condition slumbering within the Master Sword is how the sword is able to perpetually repair itself.
Just a theory on Demise: He has a very knightly, warrior personality. Examples of this are him meeting link in single combat and him waiting patiently for link to re draw his sword if it gets stuck to keep the fight fair. What if Demise was a warrior god worshipped as a god of war before he tried to conquer the world? This could explain his honourable approach to combat. This would also mirror stories from Greek mythology, where the god of war Ares battles the other gods of Olympus. It’s just a theory, but it’s cool to think about :)
Very interesting, but I think that this video saying he is basically Link's opposite also explains that. He was just a knight who was chosen by the god of darkness and retains his personality despite that.
Great video. I especially like your first two theories. I admit that when you started by talking about the Tetraforce I was going to turn the video off lol. But your thoughts actually line up with a lot of mine, and you brought up some things I hadn't thought of before.
I think you got it correct. I think this new setup allows for the original idea of the franchise to happen as a soft reboot of sorts. The only thing missing is that green guy and his "Link" to things.
What if botw and totk are both a convergence AND a reboot. Think of it like this, time forked and regardless of which line you follow, going back will lead you to the stem of that fork. So with zelda going back she both brought them together and created a new line.
my theory is that the og hyrule warriors game is acually canon and its the game that brings all the 3 timelines back together into 1 with botw being the next game chronologically
The main issue I have with the convergence theory is that the TotK events that take place in the past are essentially a retelling of OoT so it’s unlikely they would take place just after Skyward Sword. This fact, along with many other things, leads me to believe that this is another timeline that branches off at the end of SS and has many similar (if not the same) events that took place in other timelines.
They say history repeats itself, and with tens of thousands of years separating the events, there's little reason similar scenarios wouldn't play out. I mean, the same three entities are recycled (almost) every game, so events are just as likely to repeat themselves, as well.
oooh i like the one how the goddess of chaos was already there, kind of like the greek goddess of love, like eros,cupid and Aphrodite and how they are connected and came before the greek gods like zeus
Fun Fact: Farosh is in this video. Can you spot them? 🔍👀
Theirs lowrule?
Found it, it's between 00:00 -17:27
@@beastmode9988 😱
7:40. I noticed it first pass!
@@TinyLadyKris Winner winner, chicken dinner!
If Zelda is the incarnation of the goddess... the incarnation of the bargainer must be, of course, Beedle
Oooooooh! 🪲
It all makes PERFECT sense! :O
Who would Tingle represent?
@@oldoutlet6946pure evil
Yes
Regarding statues moving themselves - you missed the part where the Forgotten Temple statue raises herself up after getting power from the three springs. It's definitely something they can do.
Also, the wellspring ones refer to the forgotten temple one as if they were separate entities.
Just like the lookout landing bargainer mentions its brothers as if each statue was someone else.
6:40
@@Aladato then do any of them actually channel the goddess, or just live as their own entities, like Fi? The Forgotten Temple one should be the oldest, likely being the same one as in Skyward Sword, so if any do, I'd assume that one does. Though, it still existed at the same time as Hylia so even that won't add up.
@xinpingdonohoe3978 What I always assumed is that the Goddess is in all of the Goddess statues, but the statues are not one and the same. So basically, they're all the Goddess, but since they're all different statues, they are not the same entity.
Basically
H (Hylia) Gds (Goddess statues
H = gds1
H = gds 2
H = gds 3
Gds1 = H
Gds2 = H
Gds3 = H
But
Gds 1 ≠ gds 2
Gds 2 ≠ gds 3
Etc.
@@TheMaskedNate you'll have to explain it in a different way. Equality is transitive, so I don't really follow. Maybe set theory would work. Something like
H ⊇ {Gds k : 1≤k≤n} if there are n Goddess statues. Or maybe not.
I would argue the Barginer statues are more neutral than evil
This. They even distinguish specifically that they care not for the ideas of good and evil, because they are steadfast in their purpose of guiding all souls and spirits to whatever afterlife exists within the BotW/TotK universe. I don't think they are even affiliated with the horned statue, although I do find it plausible that Hylia would have a divine opposite.
Never implied the God of Darkness, or the Bargainer Statues were evil. Because they make deals with anyone, regardless of their moral alignment, this could be perceived as evil but they are simply just non biased. They don't care what the deals are or who they deal with, so long as an exchange is made.
The bargainers are strictly neutral, they state this precise thing.. but in the over all equation.. they represent the balance between light and dark.. (imo)
Life in death, as death in life.
All part of the balance.
But they are the opposite of good kinda. As instead of being an extreme like good or evil they are as you said, neutral. Neutrality is not good nor evil and non of its actions can really be said to be either. Thus its the other extreme. Good and evil being one set of extremes, Neutrality the other side...
In art terminology, the space around a subject is called “negative space” so the three pieces of the triforce when joined create a void of negative space, no need for a physical dark piece when it’s place is implied
Exactly what I thought, thereby it could also mean that the goddesses try to restrain the darkness. Ergo, why it isn’t visible. Ergo, that the goddesses wouldn’t be there if the negative space got filled up. Quite a nice add-up to the theory on this video, because followed by the video there was only a god of chaos before the 3 goddesses showed up, as if the negative spaced triangle already was there and the 3 triangles being there for restraining the chaos.
I always love good symbolism, something never really being done in the corporate world, because it mostly lacks consistency of symbolism, it can’t be done simple, even though the result might seem simple or ‘fairy’ (dutch, zweverig). But when it comes to games and world-building I think symbolism is something worthwhile in the right setting. Maybe one of the reasons I tend to love Zelda more and more, it’s kind of world-building with world-building right? It’s a way that makes art experiential, because it is about experience and ways to look at things. Sometimes I don’t care about creators confirming theories, I just like to see meaning in stuff that goes further and deeper into the game and not waiting to be it confirmed by creators, there is also a different sense of feeling, how obvious the designer could put the symbolism in it. And when those symbolism align up in a literal sense (Triforce design stuff),it really makes me awe-inspiring with goosebumps, just because it fits in my head, and that’s enough for me.
That’s my presentation, any questions? 😆
Where there is a god of light, there is a god of darkness.
Dude, with echoes of wisdom, the golden goddesses locking a evil deity into the earth has been confirmed its name is Null. Its nuts this was a year ago.
Maybe Nintendo is still trying to keep botw a mystery on where it’s placed in the timeline. That’s why they named events from many previous games, to keep us confused. Idk tho
I think the sad truth is Nintendo never really intended to have a solid and coherent timeline and it wanted to separate itself as far as possible from fan speculation
I feel like it is faaaaaaar into the future and zelda traveled just after skyward sword when hyrule started to become a thing on the ground. Idk why people dont like that
@@floopsfooglie213because they don't want more questions, they want easy answers.
@@floopsfooglie213 Because then what is the point of the TotK seal on Ganondorf? If placed after Skyward Sword, then he shouldn't be able to inflict the damage he does in OoT, TP, WW etc.
Also, why are Sophia's physical traits quite different from SS Link and Zelda? Why does nobody mention the Triforce in the ancient past? Shouldn't the royal family be in possession of it, if we go by SS's ending? How did the Gerudo establish as a people?
I think that BOTW and TOTK timeline just had similar events that's why they have the same name.
I love the idea that Demise is essentially a Dark Goddess's chosen Knight, fighting to defend their chaotic land from the invading Golden Goddesses. Such a cool idea and I wish I could play that game now.
I truly believed that demise was actually from lowrule looking for the triforce after they wished there’s destroyed.
I like the theory about demise and the tetraforce
It also works as a mythologization of the implied political history between Hyrule and the Gerudo. This ruling empire imposed itself upon another people that they viewed as "lawless" and "chaotic," but this Demon King (Ganondorf) rose up to try and stop them
The most interesting part about the tetraforce theory, in my opinion, is that it’s the only fan theory that Nintendo has not only acknowledged, but outright refuted
In reference to the Tetraforce theory, there’s also four goddesses in Hyrule: Faron, Farore, Nayru, and Hylia. The Four Sword split Link into four. Four elements. Four main races on the outskirts of Hyrule. Even the Fierce Deity has an upside down piece of the triforce on his breastplate
Doesn't the Fierce Deity only exist in Termina? So any markings on him doesn't affect Hyrule.
@@CosmicGoku529technically termina was in Hyrule
@@friendlyauthor7435from what I know that is completely wrong and termina is like a parralel to Hyrule but if I'm wrongn please explain
what about din? faron was just an incarnation of farore i believe
@@derpmonlvl7079 You are right. Termina is it's own thing with its own gods and everything.
What I found interesting is that the Bargainer Statue in the Great Abondoned Mine looks like it was partially excavated before the Zonai decided to just build their structures around them. I wonder if after they found that one, they took it upon themselves to find the rest. Some only partially uncovered.
It seems one of those yiga reports mentions that the bargainer statue took the soul from one of them on getting near it.
The Zonai on their mining operations might have exposed their locations so people would avoid having their souls snatched.
@@Aladato Don't bargainer statues only take "lost" souls? Because if that's the case that just makes me pity the Yiga even more.
@@freshlymemed5680 Good point, that's what they said to us.
The poor Yiga have been on this quest for thousands of years, so the bargainer did not hesitate to rapture one of them.
Sad indeed.
One of the Bargainer Statues in the Depths is standing fully unobstructed out in the open. I wonder if the Zonai even discovered them, but may have been instructed to in exchange for something.
@@AladatoThe Yiga report is reporting on a rumor. Even if it were true, that's not telling the full story; did the Yiga who supposedly lost his soul try to damage it or something? Who knows?
It seems far more likely that Botw and TotK happen after the other games in the split timelines. That means even when Zelda went back in time, she was still after those games. The reasoning for this is the existence of the Rito, who were present in TotK's past that Zelda travels to. They didn't exist before the original Imprisoning War. That means the Imprisoning War in TotK is a new one. Because of her references of past games in BotW, that seems to imply that at some point the split timelines reconverged at some point in the legendary past, before the Zonai descended. Most likely some hereforeto unknown cataclysm wiped out most of Hyrulian civilization and it wasn't until it recovered enough for Rauru to come down and forge it into a kingdom that the pieces for the eternal conflict could resume.
This, exactly.
Let's say Zelda went back 20,000 years (10,000 before the first calamity Ganon, 10,000 years ago):
It would still have been many generations after all the previous events, lost to time. The "imprisoning war" mentioned within totk would be the second imprisoning war in truth.
Seemingly, the unification of the timeline happened when the entire world was torn asunder on a massive scale, affecting each timeline.
After this event (likely aided by the goddesses), all 3 worlds were combined to create the "prime" earth* represented in the new setting.
Either way, great work, love and peace folks!
That's all but been confirmed through context clues in TOTK and BOTW.
@@stickinittotheman1 It would actually likely be just another in a number of Imprisoning Wars throughout time. Lots of events bear similarities to the one mentioned in ALTTP and could be referred to as such.
"Unknown cataclysm"? It was the flood. When the timelines converged the Great Flood was still around. The only Hyrule that survived was New Hyrule (and possibly Eastern Hyrule, which might be the same place). When the waters finally receded the Hyrulean peoples returned to their homeland and Sonia and Rauru re-founded Hyrule. Also the Zonai descend from the Oocca, who in turn descend from the Wind Tribe.
This has been said by the developers years ago. They take place at the end of all timelines
I love the idea that the hole inside the Triforce is a fourth dark piece. And that a god created chaos before the other three came down and enclosed it.
But in reality I think Nintendo just did a hard restart of the whole series with breath of the wild them tears of the Kingdom, which doesn’t make my heart happy.
Actually I heard of a theory that totk and botw is actually a parallel timeline. Where this parallel universe still has similar events that plays out in its own timeline. Kind of like a canon event from Spider-Man across the spiderverse. This is my own personal head canon and feels better to me than just admitting that they’re doing a hard reset 🥲
@drekagaming
That's the only way to force the new canon into the existing canon: just kind of shove it in there 😂
Yeah, honestly, these two games are just a reboot.
I think the fourth piece being the light force instead of an evil counterpart to the goddesses is more likely since Din blessing Ganondorf in twilight princess would indicate they they are all neutral or that Din is the rebellious if not straight up evil one
Din doing a little pranking just because she can is totally what a goddess of power will do regardless of affiliation
@@themushroominside6540 kinda messed up if you consider the consequences but yea, just a prank bro xd
Oops, another prank! Clean it up, Link!
Twilight Princess' statues kinda implied that the proto-Gerudo were retainers to a Din focused religion and like, the hatred of Demise or the entity of Ganon didn't technically enter the Gerudo bloodline until the twinrova hags performed some sort of ritual, so I tend to gravitate more towards the Gerudo just being associated with power and Din in general and that the golden goddesses themselves did not really care about Hyrule after creating it and their blessings from the triforce are very neutral.
Although, depending on how you choose to interpret the Oracles games... maybe the golden goddesses didn't actually leave the physical world after creating Hyrule, but rather just flew across the ocean and did it all over again in Holodrum and Labrynna and then incarnated themselves as the Oracles to have fun with mortals and that THIS is why the Oracles games begin with Link while Hyrule is already at peace after his previous adventure being called by the Triforce itself to go on an adventure in a foreign land...
@@Aoenias that makes a lot of sense
In a ton of creation myths and stories the word “chaos” is not the definition we know well of disorder and craziness but it usually means nothing or emptiness (like in the Greek Creation Myth), so in the creation story they meant that there was nothing until the 3 goddesses created the world of hyrule not that there was a world of war and chaos before the golden goddesses made hyrule
Maybe that is exactly what a fourth tri-force is supposed to be.
The negative space that is in the middle is the literal allegory for the nothingness.
Worth noting is that "Void" (sometimes rendered as "Ether") is considered a classical element in Japanese folklore in the same basic way that the Greeks used Air, Earth, Fire, and Water.
"Before there was time... before there was _anything,_ there was nothing... And before there was nothing... there were monsters."
Bro got proved wrong by the own games 💀🙏🏻
Im a big believer in placing BOTW and TOTK in their own timeline since there is a timeline split in Skyward Sword that nobody really talks about that they would fit really well into.
Skyward Sword does effectively seem to be the one game that BotW and TotK never contradict in their lore.
And it is worth noting that SS was the last 3D Zelda before BotW, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's more or less a direct sequel.
Also, rewatching a botw video, it seems their gerudo noticed that no more male gerudos were ever born after the demon king, that from the champion book before totk came out.
In this case this SS timeline split makes even more sense, as only one Ganondorf ever existed, so the ocarina one would be in a different timeline as suggested.
@@wesnohathas1993maybe SS is actually the sequel to BOTW/TOTK?!
is the split you are mentioning, the timeline branch that Ghirahim causes when he takes Zelda back to the past and revives Demise? If that's the split you are talking about, I would agree that botw and totk are in the original Skyward Sword timeline where there are no Link, Zelda, Ghirahim, Demise or his curse, and Groose
@@owenbyrne9850 No Groose? The absolute horror...
Nintendo: “THERE IS NO HIDDEN 4TH PIECE!”
Also Nintendo: “In Twilight Princess there are 4 Light Beasts and 3 of them are named after the Golden Goddesses.”
Except if Ordona (the light beast that doesn't reference one of the three goddesses) is supposed to be the stand in for this theoretical evil god, why is he a spirit of the light in the first place? He should be on the side of the Twilight and he's clearly not.
Ordona is not the only time in the Zelda series that a fourth major element is introduced alongside the three goddess: in Majora's Mask a time goddess is mentioned and there are the Four Links for the Four Sword games and minish cap. My guess? Whenever said fourth element is present is supposed to be a stand in for Hylia which is a goddess after all.
@@Xfushion2 who said Ordona is supposed to be evil? I’m going back to the removed triangle thing.
The Light Spirits aren't the Golden Goddesses - just their namesake. "Eldin" is named after Din; "Faron" after Farore; "Lanayru" after Nayru - "Ordona" is the only one that isn't named after one of the goddesses. These Light Spirits look over the regions named after them: Ordon, Faron, Eldin, and Lanayru. They're what's often referred to in mythology and fantasy as "lesser gods"; they work in service to the "higher gods".
First real "you lost me" point, the bargainer statues needing to be connected to a dark god to speak through the hylia statues has no backing. It would be slightly more acceptable saying they were connected to hylia herself since there's at least the evidence that one of them can speak through her statue.
The entire Demise's origin theory section relies on that dark god assertion which still has no evidence to stand on and twists it into another 'the villain was the good guy all along'.
There is no need for the timeline to have converged, it would only be necessary for a a convergence based theory. For zelda to get back to tears of the koroks it would just be a matter of the timeline that the game takes place in occuring as usual. If Totk wasn't just a reboot of the entire series anyway.
Why would they need to hijack a Goddess Statue if they were connected to Hylia? If that were the case, then the Goddess Statue, without being taken over, could have just told us about the predicament that the Bargainer Statue was in and ask us to help him. They're definitely not directly connected to the same diety if they're having to take control over the opposing sides statues.
@GossipGeist How could they hijack a goddess statue if they weren't connected to Hylia?
We know of 4 goddesses currently in the Zelda universe. If any being of sufficient strength like you implied could take over the statue, then why do the 3 golden goddesses not interact that way?
Also how do you arive to the conclusion Demise is not a reflection of Hylia? It was said in skyward sword he was the source of all monsters. His blade seeming to be an inverted version of the master sword does not prove he was the "chosen warrior" we know Hylia and her incarnations can wield the master sword. It is unknown if she can remove the blade from it's pedestal but we know from TOTK that the blade is still connected to her bloodline.
I like the idea more and more of BotW and TotK being a new timeline that has some of the same historical events of the original but sort of remixed. So much of TotK’s history feels almost like a retelling or reimagining of OoT to me-we see the Ganondorf bowing to the king scene (where Zelda looks on and knows that it’s a lie), Link having to travel to regional temples and awaken new incarnations of ancient sages, and the ancient Sage of Light, the one who built the Temple of Time, who hasn’t reincarnated (Rauru. He may be the king, but he battles with the sages and has light powers.) the secret stones could even be called a new version of the medallions.
I think this new timeline might even be one where the Triforce was forgotten, or hidden so well that no one remembers it.
A bit of a small spoiler, but the Triforce, the whole thing is seen on the back of Zelda's hand in TotK. She might actually have all 3 pieces which could explain why it's never really talked about in the games. Nobody even knew that the daughters of the Royal Family were inheriting it all this time.
@@GossipGeist I don’t know, I don’t think having a Triforce mark on your hand has to mean you have the Triforce. Link has the full, three piece mark in Skyward Sword, because he’s worthy to use the Triforce, not only when he actually uses it
@@literallywhy6162Having the mark of the Triforce on your hand usually means you have it like with Hilda and Yuuga Ganon and everywhere else in the series.
Plus it could be that he awakens the Triforce after each Secret Realm he does like how Twilight Princess Link awakened his piece once he entered into the Twilight zones.
@@GossipGeistSonia has it tattooed on her in at least one place. So it’s not entirely forgotten, as it appears long before the royal crest really appears. And Twilight princess just showed the whole Triforce on the wielder’s hand, not the specific part iirc
@TheCBoysDotCom
The royal crest of Hyrule is the Triforce and the Crimson Loftwing, due to the Hylians being the "bird folk" and the Goddess Hylia's chosen people, and the existence of the Triforce and the Sacred Realm being a secret kept and passed down through the Royal Family, the princess of which is the reincarnation of the Goddess Hylia in human form.
It's all tied together with a neat little bow on top - the lore all made sense up until Skyward Sword, and it worked retroactively to tie it all together even more. BotW and TotK don't function as seamlessly, neither with the old lore nor even really with each other. The real-world explanation is that they're just anthology games that mention old names and lore in passing to serve as Easter eggs, and the Zonai not only weren't planned but didn't even exist in BotW - Zonai was just the name of one of about a dozen sets of ruins with the same architecture, but people on the internet speculated (wildly) until Nintendo threw them in in place of the "wild people of Faron" that they had introduced in BotW; thus simultaneously erasing the Wild people and killing all sorts of lore that could have been built.
Interesting... there has been a prominent theme of fours in botw/totk, after all.
Perhaps the god of darkness was responsible for Ganondorf's escape from imprisonment in Twilight Princess? Perhaps it was more deliberate than just some "divine prank".
Echoes of wisdom gives the Tetraforce theory a lot more validity because of Tri’s upgrade
Caught your last TOTK video and I was surprised you were a relatively small channel. The audio quality, editing and content are all definitely up to par, big fan of how well put together everything is. And you're good at talking, theorizing and adding a little personality into things. Keep at it, man. I think you're definitely headed somewhere.
This was more lore and education than I have EVER hoped to receive. Whether it was about the goddess Hylia, the horned statue, the triforce/tetraforce, what the 3 dragons of hyrule did during its creation, and demise and the dark god.
This whole video was a BLAST! Thanks
the bargainer statue being underneath the temple of time in the sky, there's a sidequest that when you finish, a construct tell you it actually used to be grounded
Oh man this theory got a massive update with Echoes of Wisdom
Gossip Geist - would love to hear this same theory updated with the inclusion of Null from Echoes of Wisdom.
4:49 correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't hylia only reincarnate as the first zelda? Every time after we hear about zelda, we only get "the blood of the goddess hylia", not hylia herself. Therefore its possible after her reincarnation died, she just asciended back to the heavens and resumed her duties as the goddess of light.
I haven't watched a lot of your videos (admittedly just the draconification one before this), but I'm SO glad someone has talked about the converging timeline theory. I was already solidly in the boat after going through BOTW twice, but TOTK really sealed the deal, mainly with the reference armor sets. Previously amiibo-locked, you could find ALL of them in the depths (except for the Link's Awakening armor set, which you DO find on the surface, which is interesting in and of itself.) Since they're now part of the base game as opposed to fun little add-ons (they still are, but you can now get them BOTH ways), same with the BOTW DLC additions (Majora's Mask, Zant's Helm, and Midna's Helmet), it sort of confirms in and of itself the timeline having to converge at some point. The only thing I would disagree with is the time and place Zelda gets sent back in time to: with Rauru's Hyrule, there are still the existence of the Rito, who don't exist until the Adult Timeline, meaning sometime after the timeline convergence, but before the Great Calamity of 10,000 years before BOTW/TOTK. Overall, though, a fantastic, FANTASTIC video and I look forward to watching more of your content!
The Imprisoning War in TOTK is almost certainly the second “imprisoning war”. I still think you could say the timeline is convergent, mostly because it’s an interesting reading of the story, but also because the previous Links’ armors are now canon in TOTK. Just say the goddesses did it or something.
the idea of these statues (even hylia's) moving around when no one is looking at them just like weeping angels from doctor who is pretty creepy
they might as well make a mimic enemy out of it
Zelda does need a mimic type enemy. Those treasure chest octoroks in BotW/TotK don't really do the whole mimic thing very well.
@@GossipGeist the evil tress come real close to it, but so far the fake doors from oot's fire temple are the most mimic esque they ever did
@GenMars I guess there's sort of the Yiga wearing disguises too. One of them even disguises as Zelda on the Great Plateau. Still not as good as it could be though.
@@GossipGeist true, true
You are a genius theorist and I LOVE it!!!
I thought everyone just forgot about the Tetra Force theory. I think this does make a lot of sense, especially when looking at the series through a Japanese cultural lense.
Keep up the great work! I really like your theories and how to tend to ignore any information not in the games themselves.
I would imagine that the Japanese audience has a deeper understanding of Zelda than we do in the West.
Coming together of the Triforce to seal chaos makes perfect sense. Every time we see the Triforce shattered chaos, ensues in essence, unleashing chaos once again.
i’m really liking your content, i love the idea that there is some type of metaphorical tetra force and anti hylia, but one think i wondered was maybe instead of hylia moving the statue instead it was actually zelda? i mean when she moved into the hateno village house it was directly in front of her… perhaps she took some initiative and moved it herself while the statue mistook her for hylia since she technically is
Interesting... I like this theory
Although Zelda isn't Hylia this time round, she's descended from her
@@that_nerdy_hylian still there is correlation between the two, maybe enough for her to be mistook
@@constant249 just an idea man... not trying to convince anyone
I'm so glad someone else noticed that the three Goddesses "descended upon the chaos that was Hyrule", meaning Hyrule had to have existed beforehand. Din absolutely sealed the Depths beneath the Surface, which is why demons came up through fissures in the earth before Skyward Sword.
The problem with that theory is all the Zonai stuff in the depths. That stuff was originally on the surface as said so byt he Constructs themselves. So that means that the Depths in TOTK was originally the surface, but the goddesses would have created the lands prior to Zonai which means that in order for your theory to be true, there would have to be an entirely different layer of Depths even further below the one we see in TOTK and I just don't see any real evidence for that
@@Wertologistyes the forges ect but they started the mines after discovering the depths and I think you might be confusing the sky islands with the depths
15:55 - It could be a new continuity in which all of the other games are legends.
The two new games really seem to be their own thing.
Dude gave us the entire plot of Echoes of wisdom a year early.
I absolutely love this! Your theory makes so much sense and brings together so many questions I’ve had for the longest time. Unless something major changes, to me this is basically canon.
I love hearing your voice in these analysis videos! Great quality content too, and no dumb gimmicks. Great job!
I don’t know about the theory regarding the bargainer, their dialogue seems to imply they’re neutral, while the concept behind and the dialogue with the horned statue seems to imply that they’re to some degree more evil, and the Zelda series seems to quite often have a distinction between darkness as an element of nature and as it relates to evil. For example, a lot of games have darkness represented with the sages while also having it represented by the antagonist
I've subscribed to that precise idea as a personal philosophy for a long time. There's the natural "darkness" that is of night and shadow. It "moves aside" for light, and gives the contrast which makes light observable at all. It encompasses concepts such as void and emptiness - space, the substrate of existence, through which everything else - light included - moves. And then on the other hand you have what's really just better called evil, but is frequently called "darkness" too because we have such a paucity of useful descriptive words that make distinctions like this in English. It seeks to blot out light, not to serve it. At any rate, it's thrilling to me to see these ideas advance on a large scale thanks to popular accessible works like the Zelda series.
In the kakiriko mine the yiga notebook (I think) states that one of the statues took a yiga members soul despite the e member not dying. Considering the Yiga and demon king are unofficial teammates this doesn’t make sense.
What doesn’t make sense is that link is on Zelda’s side but also on the bargainer statues sides who in this vid are seen to be evil as well as the horned statue.
Phenomenal editing. I feel like I'm seeing the birth of a channel with 1 million subscribers - that brief point in time before it gets noticed and takes off. Hopefully the UA-cam algorithm is kind to you, since you deserve it.
It's you! Thank you for your kind words! I kneel. 👑
@@GossipGeistYou tried to solve 3 theories in the Zelda franchise in 17 minutes, and have 3.67K subs as of now.
If the algorithm doesn't like you, then
A) UA-cam needs a better algorithm
B) Someone (**wink wink**) may try to hire a hacker to get the algorithm to show you to more people
Agreed
I was here
YanDev finish your goddamn game and start liking adults ‼️‼️‼️‼️
I watched this video while drinking out of a chalice
8:33 didnt expect to see bully mcguire in this video
the best theory I've heard so far about the horned god and the bargainers, makes me think they might not be part of the tetra force, but everyone seems to forget Lorule is a thing and had it's own triforce restored, the upside down triforce I've always wondered if it has it's own gods attached to each piece, or was Lorule a product of the three standard goddesses creation. What if the bargainers and the horned god are just two of the lorulean gods, that when their world finally did fall had to reach into Hyrule for worship.
On that note, the tetra force may be real and the two triforces might actually intersect with both top pieces resting in the others center.
Yes this!!! I've been theorizing that the Depths are Lorule for a while now!
There's also a parallel between this and the Four Sword in Minish cap too. The sword is restored by first receiving the Earth element, and then the elements often associated with the other Goddesses (since in OOT the magic powers you receive are associate with 2 of those elements, but with Nayru's power being called Nayru's love instead of something associated with water). So if the God or Goddess of Chaos does exist they are likely associated with the color purple.
And purple is usually associated with Shadow, rather than Earth in Zelda games (which would make sense if the Goddess of Darkness/Shadow/Chaos was the Goddess that made the planet or Earth, and the other Goddesses just overwrote it). Also the Shadow Medallion in OOT features an upside down purple triangle, surrounded by 3 circles while the Light Medallion features 3 gold triangles facing in more of an upward direction also with 3 circles, like the pattern shown in this video that was believed to be associated with the 3 eyes the Zonai have, or the 3 Goddesses.
And then Lorule, a parrallel version of Hyrule, where the power of the Goddesses was fading away because the Triforce was destroyed, all the parallel versions of characters that usually have yellow hair, the color of Hylia's hair as well as the triforce, have purple hair instead. Like the yellow color of the Light Medallion and the purple color of the Shadow Medallion. Also the power of the goddesses being lost drove the land into chaos and made all plants start to die, like how it was before they used their powers to form the lands of Hyrule.
lol i bet you’re excited that echoes of wisdom partially confirms some of this.
It's insane thinking that the God of Darkness's champion Demise was on-par with the Golden Goddesses's champion Hylia, but couldn't beat Hylia's champion Link (basically two subordinates down from the "Good Guys" VS one subordinate down from the "Bad Guys").
We can't forget that Demise is Hylia's equal. Or at least they were.
I'd not be a friend of a hard reboot, because it'd discard a motherload or lore and history and condemn it to "optional status".
It makes sense that demise is the chosen hero of darkness, if you consider the final boss fight of the demon king in totk having similar abilities to link. It was link fighting dark link
Two warriors able to flurry rush each other. Makes sense. It was a really cool fight.
It makes a lot of sense. I agree 100%. yesterday, on twitter, I replied this:
Botw is about the wilderness
Totk talks about civilization, the "kingdom"
There's room for trilogy, to talk about gods, now, and with a title that plays with it, breath, tears and... ???
I mean, there's a hook also. The depths (poor explained), the poe receiver...
well, echoes of wisdom basically confirmed this
I always figured that the Horned Statue was Chancellor Cole from Spirit Tracks. The two horns is kind of a giveaway, but Cole was also able to interact with someone's spiritual enemy, and it can be assumed that greed would be a motivator
This is one of the most well made and creepy intro on all of ZeldaTube. Good job man🔥
Dude called his shot and dunked with his theory. Enter Null
At 9:04 there’s literally a 4th circle in the underworld on the mural! Totally thought that was why you were showing the mural at first.
same
"Let's just put a bargainer statue exactly underneath the temple of time and fans will come up with a logical explanation."
I loved your theories, but I’m already subscribed, so I had to leave a comment. The one about the tetraforce and Demise being the knight gave chills. And that ‘not a curse’ part is what I felt, too. Of course light can’t exist without darkness. But this was great!
Glad to hear you enjoyed the video! It was an absolute blast to edit this one.
I have a theory. Dinraal and Naydra are the Draconified versions of Din and Nayru from the Oracle games, whilst Farosh is the person from the unreleased 3rd Oracle game
we do learn that in totk, in order for someone to become a dragon, they would have to swallow a secret stone, and since the Zonai have the knowledge of what happens when a stone is swallowed, there's standing proof that it had happened before or they wouldn't know what happens. so my personal theory, is that the reason the zonai know of such rituals is because Din, Nayru, and Farore(who have alot of supporting details that indicate they were zonai(the dragons ears, the eyes and noses too)) were the original three to swallow the stones. they might have performed the draconification ritual some time after the zonai decended(for the zonai to be able to bear witness) and also some time after they blessed the chaotic land of hyrule. they probably draconified theirselves so they could eternally watch over the land of hyrule, not knowing that they would lose all mortality once they performed the ritual.
it would also make sense for them to want to watch over hyrule since the goddesses hero was not yet prophesied prior to SS, which is more than likely when the zonai decended(right after the great war between demise and hylia), and the zonai have no records or history stating anything about a chosen hero, at least not that we're told
Bruh echoes of wisdom confirms your theory
7:07
For some reason I assumed that the Temple of Time used to exist in the center of the Rist Peninsula (the spiral of land on the west side of the map). I think it was because that's where the final memory was and there's some ruin pillars there.
Now i see that that's probably untrue since the Temple of Time was surrounded by land. Though that makes me wonder what used to be there.
That's... actually really interesting.
15:12 did anybody else notice that 4th Triforce piece in Zelda’s medallion on her chest?
So... apparently Echoes Of Wisdom somewhat confirms your theory...
Reused names are proving to be a common occurrence in Zelda lore that is starting to breed a lot of confusion. So basically: not the same Rauru, not the same Imprisoning War, not the same Ganondorf, heck, maybe not even the same Hyrule
I have a theory that the botw hyrule is some kind of new established hyrule
Basically SOMETHING happened that caused a new shieka order (it is said the zonai are older than the Shieka which doesn’t sound possible.) new hyrule to be established.
I personally think that The Horned Statue is the god of evil, like Jerrin says outside of the hole, and The Bargainer Statues were a past race of Demi gods that were like Hades, guiding them through the afterlife.
Demi-gods, you say…
If the Zonai were on the level of gods, maybe these beings were equal to the Zonai
Also, you have to wonder what that other race down there was that’s seen in statues
They look like evolved Mogma. The Miner's outfit is themed after them, which is the best clue we get about them other than their statues.
@@GossipGeist do you mean depths armor?
@@HeatherCosby no, the depths Armour more resembles the Barginer, the mining set is different
@@GossipGeist Yeah, my first thought too, especially since they brought back Rito so it makes sense if they brought back another tribe from the past
You know if the three golden goddesses had a fourth sister who represented Chaos, then Demise might be her son and why he hates them, for killing his mother and that started the endless cycle of hate, just a theory but it makes sense, right?
“just a theory”
I love a few of these theory pieces.
I completely agree with the existence of a dark deity to contest goddess hylia. Due to the creation of the dark master sword. And it's animating spirit Girahim.
And there has always been a source of demons, designated to be the demon realm. Or dark realm which is usually a dark mirror of Hyrule.
But I have issue of it being solely demons. Because of a link between worlds where we see lowrule. Filled with regular people trying to live their lives.
They even had an entire inverted triforce themselves. And Princess Hilda still seemed good. Not like a dark dimension evil Zelda.
But that hitches on Lowrule, and the dark world/demon dimension being not the same mirrored reflection of Hyrule.
In D&d the primary material plane has 2 mirror reflections. 1 being the feywild, and 2 being the shadowfel.
What I'm thinking is that yes your theory that the golden goddess trio building an entire world on top of the primordial/demon filled world is interesting. But I think that there are multiple shadow versions of Hyrule. Each with their own casting light.
I refute your idea of a real tetra force. As I always saw the 4th triangle under the shield to represent Goddess Hylia herself.
The 3 golden goddesses ascended to a higher plane of existence. While Hylia stayed bound in flesh to the people. (Even though you are right, that a version of Hylia's goddess power still acts independent of Zelda in the form of the Hylia statues.
one my therorys on the timeline, is that botw and totk are on the inevitable timeline, no matter what you do, how you do it or ganon your destory. You end up here as a eventally someone will destory ganons body and unleash the calaminity.
Wind Waker Link is the earlyest to do it.
Four swords advanture does it.
and finally the advanture of link where we watch the minons of ganon try to start the first calaminity.
i get the feeling the blood of the goddess or hero is needed for the ritual.
and whos mother dies just before the awakening zeldas. as for the 10-29 years after her death. "I realize a simple child like you knows nothing of magic, but spells like this take time and a steady hand!" -Giraham
BOTW & TOTK take place in the Twilight Realm. After the events of Twilight Princess the Golden Goddesses granted the realm Scared Light. The Goddesses would pop in from time to time to keep the realm from becoming desolate because of it not having a Triforce.
Yeah, knowing how absolutely awful and cruel the goddesses are already portrayed as (the cycle of damnation they keep doing throughout all the games because of demises curse, the flooding of hyrule, the banishing of the twili, other things) them coming in and ruining their sister's chaotic demon world and kicking her out seems pretty on brand. And hylia doing nothing to stop them.
Dude your video style is lovely the quality is pleasant excited for more!
This is good! I think if the Zelda team says there's no fourth piece, then there probably isn't. BUT I like your theory about it because instead of saying there's another piece, it's just saying that the fourth piece is the negative space in the middle. It works perfectly on a thematic level. The Demise's origin part was really cool too, "the sword that seals the light" just sounds metal, I love it!
Long paragraph about the timeline ahead, short attention spans beware:
I definitely buy into the timeline convergence theory. I've heard people say Nintendo rebooted the series or whatever because there are some contradictions, but they haven't at any point in the 6 years since BOTW came out completely changed the timeline or announced that BOTW is a reboot. All they said is that BOTW takes place at the very end of the timeline and left us to "figure it out". I'm not sure which specific theory I like best tho... Like at first, I thought the founding of Hyrule mentioned in TOTK was the same one from the end of Skyward Sword, and y'know any inconsistencies could just be the result of a story being passed down for a long time. Then I also thought, maybe the past in TOTK also takes place at the end of the timeline, after every game before BOTW and this world just has an impossibly long history. This makes a little more sense to me and I personally like it because it doesn't require past games to be reinterpreted. This way BOTW and TOTK can be "separate" and it doesn't exclude previous games from discussions about the new ones
As for how the timelines actually converge, no idea. I heard one theory from Thinking At Max Volume about the possibility of a dragon break kind of thing like in Elder Scrolls where all possible timelines become equally real. I think he explains how it's possible pretty well in his video and I like it a lot, but I'll admit I had a hard time following toward the end. Definitely go check out his video if you haven't tho
This channel needs more subscribers! Keep it up!
Imagine if the timelines didn’t converge and in two other timelines the light dragon is just there, chilling in the raised island in the sky waiting for a none existant link to be brought to that safe place and later pull out the restored mastersword *In the other timelines botw isn’t in (if the timeline didn’t converge) we can assume the mastersword didn’t break else Zelda would be receiving 3 masterswords to heal
Oh god now I just imagine Zelda getting three broken master sword at the same time and being like: wtf
…
wait if that was the case wouldn’t Zelda just come back in each timelines with three mastersword. That means that Zelda would have found a duplication glitch
All you need is like a solid headband or a hair band, see how it looks pushed back but otherwise just absolutely S tier!
Another good video. I remember the first time people really started talking about the convergence theory was after Mat Pat (yes game theory) made a video. It was a very flawed video but also quite on spot. He thought that the game Hyrule Warriors (the Wii U one) suggested that a convergence of timelines is on its way. I played the game and was kinda obsessed with it as some point and ngl while it seems to not be canon, it… kinda is? Its similar to what’s happening with FNAF, where there are now books that are telling a story completely separate from FNAF and the original game characters but hint to whats going on in the actual game lore.
I’m bringing this up because the convergence theory might connect your previous theory about light and dark. The whole game of Hyrule warriors is about a battle between light and dark!!! There are two non canon characters representing light and dark, the two are against one another but at last they’re sisters.
I might be wrong about this, its been about a decade that I haven’t played that game but I think we see more than 3 triforces in the game too…. Tbh it was a good lore-packed game. There are lots of references and stuff thats fun to revisit before TOTK and after BOTW (stuff like textures, weapons, characters and places that we see being hinted to in TOTK a lot)
I’m fairly certain this game really sparked a lot about the convergence theory specially since the literal level selection of the game is a time lime fork that converges.
0😊wL
Jesus quite the high production value for a smaller channel
How much would it cost to do the evil toby macquire dance....
Usually for a mere 20 Rupees, but today, you get a free pass.
I feel like the existence of the Rito during the imprisoning war kinda screws up all of the timelines. They didn't come into existence until after "Ocarina of Time's hero gets sent back" timeline. The world gets flooded with salt water and the fresh water Zora evolve into Rito to fly out and survive and exist in Wind Waker.
Anyone else notice how the backs of the Bargainer Statues looks like the face of a boar?? ua-cam.com/video/eJ_GmwhAxTk/v-deo.html
Yep, and the only one that allows you to see this is the Cliff Bargainer Statue. Arguably the oldest and most major one of them all, being directly under the Mother Goddess Statue from Skyward Sword.
This is my first vid of this channel, and this was such an amazing vid to introduce me to an amazing creator❤
The Imprisoning War only happens in the hero is defeated timeline--and the tears of the kingdom lore is all about that so Zelda travelled down that timeline
It isn't the same Imprisoning War, though. That's why I made the claim that BotW and TotK are in their own separate timeline that have unique but similar historical events.
@@GossipGeist That's quite possible, although there isn't any proof that there were different imprisoning war and that the two games were on their own timeline. (I think that they might be, just because of the Zonai who haven't appeared earlier in any game exept from BOTW.)
I'd really love for this to be the case, since it allows Nintendo to potentially remake a lot of older Zelda games but with a unique story twist to them.
This was a very well-thought-out and impressive theory!! And the production value in the video is so high, I really love the editing style and the shots of you talking behind the journal were really amusing. Thank you for working so hard to make such high quality content! I hope it gets the attention and respect it deserves!
Smashing together the timelines never sat well with me at all. There's no event I can think of that could make it so all the continuities converging make any sense.
That said, making the original Hyrule Warriors canon to the Official Zelda timeline would give Breath Of The Wild a chance to explain how it knows about the events of the from parallel timelines. Throwing characters and locations from the Era of Twilight and the Era of the Sky etc. into a single game just long enough for their battles to become legends passed through the royal family lines up with Breath Zelda's speech if you stick Breath of the Wild some after the events of Hyrule Warriors. I know, I don't like it either.
Throwing Zelda back to the "founding of Hyrule" could mean the founding of *her* Hyrule. For all we know the cataclysmic events of the Wind Waker are just one of several ends to kingdoms named "Hyrule" that have happened throughout history. There's no real need to try to squeeze Zelda past the pesky time split if it makes more sense that multiple Hyrule Kingdoms have risen and fallen ad infinitum since skyward sword and the one founded by Rauru was merely the latest one.
Definitely gave me more to think about. I can tell this is going to be a video I watch over and over so that I can think about each of your theories one or two at a time.
Hey, gossip
Shoutout???
Just checked out your content. You've got some clean edits, clean footage and have some real potential. I suggest structuring your videos such as scripting for your more focused content. I can tell you've got drive, so keep at it and always aim to improve something with every new video, that's what I've always done so far.
@@GossipGeist thank you 😊
Dang you went IN on this one. Well done
The tetra force stuff was so convincing it’s probably going to be my new head cannon now whether I like it or not. Really good video dudes
Its interesting the detail Twilight princess also mentions where light cannot exist without darkness and also Gannondorf mentioning the history of light and shadow being written in blood after his defeat with link.
It’s incredible that this is the first video I’ve watched linking the apparent lack of a Tetraforce to the Japanese superstition surrounding the number 4 when, in hindsight, you’d think that it’d be one of the easier Zelda theories to come up with.
Your theories actually make sense and it was interesting to hear, nice!
If we got to have a series that explores the history post convergence, I would love if we got to play as a Sheikah during one of their eras of growth perhaps aiding the Hero on their own quest or even a storyline unrelated to the classic Hero’s quest.
The Sheikah have always been very secretive, it would be nice to explore their history more and embody all that they are ability wise, there is a lot to work with regarding their contributions to technology and protection of Hyrule.
I'm sad that Ghirahim is just dead. The master sword can be reforged, why not the evil one? That's my favorite character archetype, the Number Two who just wants to serve so badly that kinda seems like a love or obsession for their Number One. Now he's just gone.
He was pretty beat up by Link. I imagine damaging the spirit of the sword directly would probably do some irreversible damage. Fi being untouched and in perfect condition slumbering within the Master Sword is how the sword is able to perpetually repair itself.
Just a theory on Demise: He has a very knightly, warrior personality. Examples of this are him meeting link in single combat and him waiting patiently for link to re draw his sword if it gets stuck to keep the fight fair. What if Demise was a warrior god worshipped as a god of war before he tried to conquer the world? This could explain his honourable approach to combat.
This would also mirror stories from Greek mythology, where the god of war Ares battles the other gods of Olympus.
It’s just a theory, but it’s cool to think about :)
Very interesting, but I think that this video saying he is basically Link's opposite also explains that. He was just a knight who was chosen by the god of darkness and retains his personality despite that.
My guy just articulated my head cannon and put it on the internet. I approve sir!
I really enjoyed this video. Keep up the great work my brother.
Great video. I especially like your first two theories. I admit that when you started by talking about the Tetraforce I was going to turn the video off lol. But your thoughts actually line up with a lot of mine, and you brought up some things I hadn't thought of before.
I think you got it correct. I think this new setup allows for the original idea of the franchise to happen as a soft reboot of sorts. The only thing missing is that green guy and his "Link" to things.
I never thought much about the tetra force but you got me thinking it'd be really cool now. It's now my head canon.
What if botw and totk are both a convergence AND a reboot.
Think of it like this, time forked and regardless of which line you follow, going back will lead you to the stem of that fork. So with zelda going back she both brought them together and created a new line.
my theory is that the og hyrule warriors game is acually canon and its the game that brings all the 3 timelines back together into 1 with botw being the next game chronologically
The main issue I have with the convergence theory is that the TotK events that take place in the past are essentially a retelling of OoT so it’s unlikely they would take place just after Skyward Sword.
This fact, along with many other things, leads me to believe that this is another timeline that branches off at the end of SS and has many similar (if not the same) events that took place in other timelines.
They say history repeats itself, and with tens of thousands of years separating the events, there's little reason similar scenarios wouldn't play out.
I mean, the same three entities are recycled (almost) every game, so events are just as likely to repeat themselves, as well.
oooh i like the one how the goddess of chaos was already there, kind of like the greek goddess of love, like eros,cupid and Aphrodite and how they are connected and came before the greek gods like zeus