I never understood why people would need dave over the money guy strategy until I tried to help my parents save for retirement. long story short they were trying to use credit cards as "good debt" to fund their business. Its very hard to flip a switch for those who've done it so long and people like that need dave's strict guidlines.
I know plenty of grown adults aged 30-92 who do not respect debt and constantly steal from their future without understanding what is going on. Dave Ramsey is for them.
Totally. I really don’t care for Dave’s style and I’ve heard some things about him that I really wouldn’t agree with. All that said, I truly can’t argue with the results. FPU works for people in the way that my finance nerd advice does not. So that’s good.
I mean to be fair, I use "Good debt" to fund my business and it has made me far more money than I could have if I would've been debt free and waited. The idea though is that you pay OFF that debt asap before it does eat away from your bottom line.
Dave’s method is good for people who don’t have good financial discipline. Most people don’t and Dave’s method helps break people’s bad financial habits.
Exactly! I use one credit card for convenience & pay it off weekly. I use it to fill my tank up with gas ⛽️ & buy groceries. I’m not getting rid of it!
Dave jump started me. For 20 ys was drowning in debt even though my income doubled, almost tripled. I paid off 25k in 9 months (3 loans). Now taking a break to bulk up 401k.
Same for me, Dave was my ticket to financial education and what led me down the path that ultimately had me on this channel. Dave gave me the tools to become debt free, The Money Guy gave me the tools to financially flourish in a way I never dreamed possible a decade ago. 33 250k liquid networth, zero debt. Thanks Chris and Bo
I'm a fan of both for sure. My take is this: if you're on baby steps 1, 2, 3 as defined by Dave Ramsey, then stick with him. If you're on steps 4, 5, and 6, it's time to listen to the money guys. Each of those are great sources of financial advice.
I’ve posted numerous comments after Ramsey videos telling people it’s time for them to graduate to the Money Guy. Unfortunately Money Guy has lost their focus on teaching sophisticated points to the financial mutants.
I kinda started going in the Money Guys direction even before I ever heard of them, which was only a couple of weeks ago. I definitely enjoy both though and they both do great work.
My wife and I did FPU and it revolutionize our finances and that was back in 2015. I still follow Ramsey Solutions but I have also been tuning more in the Money Guy Show. I couldn't agree more that a blend of the two strategies is huge. Move with gazelle intensity in Baby Steps 1-3 and in 4-6, apply the FOO and become a financial mutant.
I totally agree, I'm on bs 6 and with the high yield savings accts at 5.25% and my mortgage at 2.99%, I started to think I am probably in control enough at this point to funnel money to the hys acct. Once those rates start to tumble I can always move it to paying off the mortgage. But this would not work for someone likely to use that money for other things.
Dave is great for lighting the fire in you to take finances seriously and get your act together. I discovered him five years ago and paid off my student loans and car. Since then, once you get the general financial responsibility lessons- it’s time to graduate to the money guys.
Agree....Dave starts that beginning you literally cannot do the money guys until you get out the debt. Also Dave has his ELP... Dave gets the monkey off the back... These guys help grow your money if you do not want to use an advisor.
100% We did FPU; it got us started down the right path. We've made a ton of progress. But Caleb Hammer has pushed us over the edge. I'm here on the Money Guys because we need to know what to do after we're debt-free when the house gets paid off soon.
I started stacking to SAVE wealth. I've always been the type of person to spend my entire paycheck. I hate having money just sit in the bank. I am under pressure to grow my reserve of $950k. before I turn 60, I would appreciate any advice on potential investments.
I can feel your pains. New guys need to realize the risks that come with all of this. You could lose it all and you could win it all. It goes both ways. Second, what works for A may not necessarily work for B and you should not be a bandwagon investor. A good number of folks are raking in huge 6 figure gains in this downtrend, but such strategies are mostly successfully executed by folks with in depth market knowledge.
@@freedomisEexpensive-08 Factos!! Since the market became extremely volatile and pressure increased (I should be retiring in 17 months), I took the decision to work closely with a financial advisor. It has already been 9 months and counting, and I have made approximately 600K net from all of my holdings
I've loved the ramsey material but have started to disengage from it because of the company's social conservatism and religious influences. Nothing wrong with living your life like that! But if you listen to the callers, its kinda frustrating to see him telling a couple with 1 low income job that they can definitely have a 7th child, but that someone with even a penny of outstanding credit card balance can't order a pizza. I wouldn't say they are hypocritical, but there is DEFINITELY a bias
I paid my house off just before I turned 40. I am a CPA, so I understand the math between the two approaches. However, for me, there isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t feel enriched from living in MY house. For me, what it may have cost me was worth it and now I invest with “gazelle intensity”!
And even if you pay it off it still costs you every year with taxes! I'm still a believer of you pay it off taxes shouldn't happen! This is a big reason why our elderly can't afford their homes after they pay them off.
I agree, I am financially disciplined, but I have a "safety" gene and want to have safe investments protected before the more risky ones. That brings a peace of mind that makes me enjoy life more having that security
I started off listening to Dave. That was until I was honest with myself with why I had debt (post divorce shared debt) and realized I would respond better with data driven methodology rather than emotionally driven. I wasn’t in debt because of any particular bad habit but rather life simply happening; and in fact, I learned since starting consuming financial content I had an affinity for handling money. The Money Guys made me learn I love wanting to optimize rather than need to “fix” myself financially.
Ramsey is listening to your gut, money guy is listening to your brain. I listened to my gut until it came time to pay off the house early and then started listening to my brain
Yeah how the hell is someone nowadays making 40k BEFORE tax gonna be spending 10k a year on retirement when 15 should be plenty and that’s way better than most people that are way in debt.
You guys and Dave are all awesome. Main difference I see is that you are more math, Dave is more life. I experienced on myself that I consider my purchases 100 times to make sure I am getting the best deal since I don't use credit cards. I love spending money and it's easier if I don't have a credit card in my wallet which can get me in deep debt. It's the same as having to walk next to the cookie jar every 10 minutes when you are fat. It helps in my diet to forget to grab a cookie.
Yeah I think if you are a natural spender then what you say is true. For people that are natural savers and hate spending though I can see them using credit cards without getting into trouble with them.
Excellent video. I just want to comment that Dave's clients are usually less financially sophisticated and in more need of money education. I applaud Dave for being very simple, clear and very approachable. His books are at 6th grade reading level and ensure that people actually understand what to they are reading. Typical CFP program is getting really sophisticated really fast
Not gonna end up in bad shape with either one tbh. If you can handle a little bit more on your plate, I like the $ guy strategy more 😊. Worth the extra compound interest to not pay off the house before 45, 2% cash back on credit cards, and 20-25% rather than 15% savings during the process.
Also, contrary to what Dave says, it can be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to qualify for a home loan with no credit score, and therefore an entry-level credit card can be good for building credit in order to get a home loan. However, I completely agree with him on avoiding credit card debt that you can’t pay off. I never use more than 25% of the limit (it won’t help your credit score as much otherwise), and it’s always an amount that I can easily pay off with cash.
@@GeneralSirDouglasMcA I am going to say this -- I LOVE Dave Ramsey, but even before listening to these guys I had decided early I will NOT cut up my one credit card that has been with me for 10 or more years and when I didn't have a job, my credit card help me feed my family. I keep my credit card not only paid off, but even with a $100 credit, if I can. You have to eat the meat and spit out the bones. I also differ from these guys where I want to pay off my mortgage ASAP.
i actually use both. Dave is better for paying off debt. i dont have a job with a 401k, i will have a pension plan. So i want to maximize my time horizon by NOT having debt by retirement and also having supplemental income from a personal ROTH. also, also, i like my cars so i did my on spin off and will save for them in cash/investments/CDs so that I can pay in cash. essentially, I decided on my maximum car price FOREVER. 35k for my entire life and will save for it in 5 year increments, so that by the time I retire, the money can pay for both repairs and the interest can perpetually accure. I mean I might buy a car every 5 years or actually wait every 10 years or even when it fully breaks down. THATS MY OPTION. but I'm not maxing out my money on vehicles that take away from retirement. While that sadly denies me certain types of vehicles, it enables my future self to one day make a FULLY FUNDED (ie not financed) dumb car purchase. laugh at like im poor now, but I'm debt free. and I'll have enough WEALTH to pass off to my kids to have them born with silver spoons. my great idea is that I can do a cash out refi my home and give the money to my kids so they can have a house PAID IN FULL and they just pay our mortgage and own 25% of the house. and when we die, they can have the home in full anyways. 😂😂😂. they can then fully use that home as a rental or sell it. we would be dead anyways, but it could serve them well to do as they see fit. KEY THING IS, to NOT have lots of kids. I want minimal inheritance. 100K ÷3 has less purchasing power than 100k ÷2. this is my LIVING inheritance plan, aside from a life insurance policy.
Sounds like you guys are more geared for mathy people. I appreciate that, but I also appreciate how Dave Ramsey gives achievable advice for people who aren't going to dig into the numbers
Building wealth is 80% behavior and 20% head knowledge. Dave's plan is great for you to get control of the 80%. The money guy seems to just focus on the 20%. Thier plan will only work if you have the 80% under control. These two plans do not have to go counter to each other. They can compliment each other, but only if you get that 80% under control. Simply, Dave wants you to build wealth while having good financial health and habits. Money guys just want to help you build maximum wealth fast and safe, assuming you already have good financial habits and responsibility.
After following the contrast for a while and deciding what is better, I eventually realized they're quite similar. Dave recommends only 15% to retirement investing while extra should be going to pay down mortgage. But then he also recommends 100% stocks for the retirement investing with no bonds. So he's basically just paying down the mortgage loan instead of buying bonds. If you consider that debt is a negative bond, this ends up being quite similar to just doing all investing in a balanced stock+bond portfolio.
Probably the most important thing to have fully paid off when you go into retirement is your house. When you are 25, paying off your mortgage quickly doesn’t make that much sense, but if you are 45 paying it off quickly is pretty important. The one thing that Dave doesn’t go into is how to create cash flow in retirement. Rental properties is a good thing for that, dividend stocks or REITs is as well. What’s important is to go into retirement with as few expenses as possible while creating a few streams of cash flow.
Not really. Focus on dividends is misplaced. Too many other simplistic misconceptions to get into. Check out Rob Berger videos, for example. With inflation at 5+%, why repay a
Regardless of the difference between the two, I respect TMGS guys more because they can disagree with someone without calling them "stupid" or that they "live in their parents basement" - or justify why they're right because they're rich and have helped X million people. They back up their claims with facts and numbers. You can tell that they have tremendous respect for Dave and are okay with people disagreeing with them. Dave really turns me off with how crass and disrespectful he is at times. He was being nice when they came to his office, but you could tell he was threatened that somebody else had actually come up with a system that was helping people and that could compete with the Baby Steps. Following the Baby Steps isn't going to lead you into a ditch by any means, but the FOO is just better and more realistic in today's world. You guys covered it all here, but TMGS's take on credit card usage, home purchases, emergency reserves, and index funds vs. mutual funds makes so much more sense than Dave's alternative. I wish I had found you guys sooner.
I started learning from Ramsey maybe 4 years ago, but glad to meet the Money Guys over the past year! I'm slowly moving to area between the two. I've always been responsible with money; never carried credit card balance, but was very skiddish with any kind of investing (retirement or otherwise). Been a slow but steady journey beginning in 2012. Maxed my retirement contribs for first time last year and accelerating!
Dave is good for beginners and novices. Your program is for more advanced financial managers. Dave's method is better from a psychological perspective since most of the American population are beginners. For those of us who are more advanced your way is better, but you cannot force someone with a beginners mindset to practice advanced actions until there mindset fundamentally changes. That psychological connection with money that has made Dave so simple. Keep it simple and easy to understand for 80% of the population.
The reason dave does it the way he does is because he's trying to change habits. You cannot say the rewards of a card are good to someone who already has shown the ability to mismanage their money. It's all psychology.
All these recommendations are good but very few people will follow them. Sad. A typical 25 year old will see age 65 as too far to wait, they want to enjoy the fruits of their labor NOW!
My favorites: Caleb Hammer - Low level get off your a$$ advice. You really don't need a CFA for someone to tell you carrying credit card debt is bad. He's entertaining and personable and relatable, and puts a big emphasis on things like physical and mental health which I often see glossed over or ignored. Money Guys - Lots of well thought out data and they explain a lot of the process behind it. With the both of them the conversational method helps sort a lot of chaff advice you hear from reality. Still though, they don't lose sight of many implications others gloss over like taxes, emotional decision making, and inflation. They also don't seem to do click-baiting titles. John Bogle - The O.G. He literally changed the game. Of course most of his stuff is in books instead of videos, but he acts as a great foundation into academic level understanding before you start diving deeper.
I look at Dave’s plan as the first step basics to learning how to manage your finances, a plan for life time security. I look at the Money Guy as the next step after the basics, a plan for life time comfort.
There’s something in both strategies that’s missing. That is: have an individual Brokerage Account. It would prevent, to a degree, what we see happening now. Right now in our tough economy, many, many people are dipping into their 401k, destroying it, to get money to just cover their monthly bills. If they had an Individual Brokerage Account where they had built up some money for non retirement use then rather than destroying their retirement they could use this account as a buffer. Also it would be a buffer protecting them from using their emergency fund for everyday living expenses. People seem to have forgotten about these types of accounts, but, boring as this type of account might be, it does have a place in a good financial strategy.
@@haydenclement2738 well, I think the emergency fund is for emergencies only and not necessarily for regular living expenses. If you depleate the emergency fund on routine living expenses then you won’t have anything left for an emergency. I had to dip into my emergency fund once for an emergency. I woke up one Sunday morning to take my little guy to Cub Scouts. When I went to get into the car turns out someone had crashed into my car during the night while I was asleep. The whole front drivers side was smashed in, tire flat and bent so badly that it wouldn’t turn. None of this was visible from the other side. I do have insurance, but a thousand dollar deductible and it took a month to get the car fixed and I had to rent a car for that month. There was over $8,000 of damage to the car. I used the emergency fund to pay the deductible and car rental cost. Something like that, an unexpected occurrence, can happen regardless of what the economy is doing. Thank goodness I had an emergency fund!
If you need to get out of (bad) debt like credit cards, than Dave is your guy, but if you're out of bad debt, then TMG will move you forward in creating wealth, which sometimes includes having some low-cost debt, like mortgages
The 30yr vs 15yr is a risky way of lifestyle creep. This requires a mountain of self-control and the highest levels of executive function. Your comments at the end are on point. We needed Dave to get started; we're getting to a place where your advice makes sense for us.
Both strategies are that.. strategies. Dave's is way more conservative compared to your guys, but the math doesn't lie. You guys leverage more. That's always gonna win out when compared to a cash on cash approach. That said, after some point, what are you gonna do with cash on hand.
Dave’s strategy is for people who basically cannot handle debt or credit responsibly. There’s a lot of people out there who cannot have credit cards because they will bury themselves in debt and interest. Neither set of principles will steer you wrong! Both ideologies will land you in a good financial position when you’re nearing retirement. Both require sound decision making and discipline.
that's all apart of the mental gane though. You're not seeing that. For the sake of the majority he has to be 100% with his points unless he's outright incorrect. Because people listen in and if they hear flip-flop or exceptions people will always think their different.@@theduke7616
Dave is really locked into the 15% retirement. Heard him shredding a couple because the woman wanted to save 20%. Of course Dave claimed that he is the expert and somehow saving more was stupid. I like him but he is very defensive about sticking to his plan. I use credit cards for all purchases and bills and pay them off at the end of each month. Received $900.00 cash back this year and paid 0 interest. Dave would argue this is wrong too.
He’s an asshole and super defensive when people just ask questions because he knows he’s wrong and he looks like a dummy when people prove he can’t do basic math
@@acebragg5559it doesn’t but cash back rewards are not taxable, so if you’re using CCs correctly (CORRECTLY) then you can buffer your accounts with what you get back.
I have a difficult time abiding by anyone's advice who says to account for charity/tithing as part of a budget when you're in debt yourself. That's not sound financial advice.
Back about 2-3 years ago when I got my first 'big kid job" and started finding some UA-cam channels and found Graham Stephen, Ramsey, and such and started seeing the advice and going okay, well close enough, but I'll do a few things my own, I finally found a video that talks about some differences of opinion with the baby steps, and have found and loved this series since. As someone who's income has climbed into a position where I can let my financial mutations show. I'll admit this content (Along with some of the books) have gotten me from 'just the match' and paying down some student loans to paid off student loans, maxed out 401ks, IRA, and HSAs, and it's fun to see this go full circle now for me. Feels like the Star Wars line, When I left you I was, but a learner, now I am the master.
2:02 he has done some good, wow the arrogance from the host is absolutely appalling. Dave has 100 times the wealth you have, and 50 times more charisma
I have a lot of corporate finance and strategy experience and so I am often asked about what I invest in. I always answer the same way. "Do you have credit card debt? Because if you do you need to follow Dave Ramsey. You are going to hear about Jesus more than you want to, but just like AA it works. You are the financial equivalent of an alcoholic. If you don't have credit card debt, follow the money guy."
I’ve always told people financial advice depends on their financial behavior. if you lack financial discipline Dave Ramsey is your man. If you are past that hurdle you the maximizing strategy you guys pitch.
I think the only issue with being 25 and saving 25% is not realistic. I was barely making enough to get by. I had to get a second job and go to night school to just barely break even.
I had to stop listening to Dave during the pandemic, just because someone is good at helping people with their personal finances does not make them an expert in public health. Same goes for national and global fiscal and monetary policy. When Clark Howard and the Money Guy talk politics (which sometimes you have to do as a financial guy) they at least can take a step back and see all sides of the issues.
I agree with this. The Money Guy show does such a good job handling "political" issues when they have to. They do a great job not ostracizing any groups of people.
@@morbotheturtle3796 Dave was completely wrong. We’ve had 4 surges in the past 2.5 years with peak hospitalizations. So far this winter looks better then previous but we’ll see. Mass vaccinations have definitely helped. Dave downplayed COVID and the data has proven him wrong.
@@jtowensbyiii6018 allegedly. But hospitals have been proven to lie about the numbers because they get paid a bonus for covid death reports. There have been individuals who have died in car accidents that were claimed as covid deaths. Obviously not all, but it’s far less than a million actually died of covid.
I like that you're recognizing what Dave does well. I think you could have spent even a minute more on the psychology aspect. That example is great of the folks you've been telling to get out of credit card debt over and over and they don't listen but then they find this guy named Dave Ramsey and all of the sudden they've stopped carrying debt and aren't living on credit cards anymore. Why? Because it's not about math for them. It's about behavior and that's what he addresses better than anyone else. I also don't agree with Dave on everything but for those who would suggest he's not doing a ton of good, you aren't seeing the whole picture. I'm glad I found you guys though. I'm passed the baby steps and would like some advice for people who are good with money but need to avoid pitfalls.
I'm currently getting my MBA with a focus in Finance. I agree Dave's info is very outdated. $1,000 is not enough for emergency funds and social security is anyone's guess now
I wish I had found you guys a long time ago, before my friend recommended Dave Ramsey to me. I really didn’t buy Dave’s methodology even tho I have huge respect for that guy. In my line of work, I see rich folks getting loans to fund their businesses and I don’t agree with his attitude towards loan. His mortgage plan is also pretty ridiculous to me… and so I didn’t follow his other advice. Your FOO tho makes soooo much sense to me and I wish i had followed you guys earlier.
I love both dave and the money guys. The reality is both camps have done a world of good for so many people. Regardless of who you think is right, you're going to win with either strategy. I use credit cards, i think you can use one wisely. But i agree with Dave. Even if you optimally use a credit card for points, it is not going to move the needle on your wealth building whatsoever. So if you cant control your spending, cut it up.
Wow. I've been watching Dave Ramsey for years and have been beginning my baby steps this past year. Then found The Money Guy and wanted to know the differences. Low and behold they have a video on it! And low low and behold it JUST came out!! Thanks for the information guys. I have some things to consider.
Personally, I think setting it at 25% when most folks (60+%) can barely set aside 5 -10% is too lofty. 15% gets you there in time unless you are are simply to old to hit the mark. Obviously the math is better for 25% (duh), but for the majority of people? 15% is a great goal to strive for. And accessible to people just out of college, getting first homes and cars. Just my opinion, I'm with Dave on this one, also noteworthy that he does recommend more for older folks who are behind.
The 80% of millionaires are self-generated … does that not overlook the fact that most are likely baby boomer and/or silent generation? Additionally, for those that are younger, I’m curious how that number is skewed towards those that had “stable” conditions (housing, good schooling, tutors, family paid/assisted with education, connections, etc) versus those that were within unstable conditions (debt, foreclosed, poor, struggling).
Before watching: Dave Ramsey focuses more on developing a stay-out-of-debt frugal mindset, then save for retirement. He teaches you how to start rolling up a snowball. The Money Guys teach you how to push that snowball down the hill (army of dollar bills). They assume you've made the snowball already and focus on optimizing your wealth journey. If you have credit card debt and want to be able to sleep better at night, follow Dave. If you want to save up X million of dollars so that you can do X, Y, and Z, follow The Money Guys.
Ramsey is for those with no discipline.. MG is for those with some basic financial education and at least SOME built in discipline. Starting saving EARLY is extremely powerful. Starting < age 24 can set you up with much less stressful messy middle.
One of your best videos, great explanations and comparisons, lots of information and what mindset lead to each strategy, always been a fan - love your fiduciary work as always!
Man I’m happy I found these guys. I’m 28 but have only been in my career for a year. I’m gonna have to do some research and watch more videos going forward. Found Dave first so I’ve just been paying debt for the last year.
Some people ask me for financial advice, and I typically recommend the baby steps. The simplicity of his plan just makes it easier to recommend for someone who’s beginning to step up their finances. I will also tell them about the FOO. I just tell people that all playbooks will work- if you work the plan. Dave is great at getting people to take action and that’s why his plan works. He gets people to actually do it!!
Dave’s baby steps were just easier to understand and follow. From the FOO 1st step, I didn’t understand what the steps were talking about. It would be more helpful if the FOO steps included examples of what they’re talking about with each step. To be honest, after going through the effort of downloading the FOO steps, and not understanding them, I got discouraged and never looked at them again. Dave baby step: save 3-6 months for Emergency Funds…easy to understand. I do love this show, but I just don’t get FOO.🤷🏻♀️
Im too old to have listened to you money guys. Charles Givens did give me the nugget (among other factors to be honest) that allowed me to retire a year early. His saying was “pay yourself first” which is exactly your recommendation to max out your 401k/403b/IRA. Young people DO IT you won’t regret it.
I think the biggest difference between the money guys and Dave is that, Money guys show us how powerful $1 is, while Dave is laughing and calling you stupid for getting $20 cashback for spending $1000 on a credit card, even if that $1000 was necessities and you didnt pay single penny as interest.
Well put. The Ramsey Solutions Team will never admit that there are people who have more financial discipline than a five year old, and will make misleading statements about things they don't understand.
@@tcgtpl Agree. They should include a segment for those who have achieved BS7 and are financially disciplined and able to use credit cards to our advantage.
@@jimhandler1129 They’ll never do that, though. Mr Ramsey’s rise to fame is due to his hardline stance on debt, and has openly stated his hatred for credit cards (especially American Express). The Ramsey Solutions Team will always badmouth credit cards & banks.
@@tcgtpl Dave always brings up how millionaires didn't make their money off of getting credit card rewards, which is true, but he never says how many millionaires actually have and know how to use credit cards to their advantage.
Dave does point out that the cash back you get is basically funded by some poor financially irresponsible person that is drowning in debt. He has acknowledged that some people can make it work, but he is still against it.
I don’t think you fairly portrayed Dave’s stance on generosity by only mentioning it at Baby Step 7. He encourages people to give 10% from the beginning, even while saving the starter emergency fund or working the debt snowball. If there is a difference between your shows, I would say Dave emphasizes generosity much more consistently than Money Guy.
Dave recognizes the mental changes that have to take place. He calls paying off those smalls debts little wins. It keeps you motivated to continue the process. If you’re working and working on one big loan with the highest interest. It’s gonna take far longer to pay off and mentally, you may get tired and give up.
I follow both Daves and you money guy guidance. In particular what you say about auto purchases Brian if a person isn't knowledgeable about cars and car maintenance even though new cars do depreciate a person could end up spending more in the long run buying used cars and constantly paying a mechanic money getting them fixed.
You can not work on a new car with all the computerization. Even the manual will tell you "no user maintenance" the backyard mechanic days are over forever!
I’m listening to them talk about saving 25%, and back when our marriage was young, we were budgeting 10-15% for church and other donations, and we basically had a rice & beans budget. I was a SAHM, and it was hard. We could do that now, but when we were spending half what other people were spending on groceries, and there just wasn’t money left at the end of the month… it wasn’t possible. And we budgeted. Diligently. Didn’t matter. If we hadn’t had 3 kids, I could have worked and it would have been easy. The only debt we ever had was a mortgage; if we used a credit card, we paid it right off. Thankfully we are in a much better place now. But my husband won’t listen to me anyway when it comes to money. So we paid off our home in 18 months, and he’s looking at buying a second house soon as he can save up a down payment. Still isn’t funding retirement.
Sounds like a future April Fools’ Day episode. I can envision the opening: I’m not at all excited about this show. Today’s show is going to be so depressing to me. I couldn’t give a rat’s rear end about the topics we’re going to cover. I hope you all down a couple more cups of coffee because I’m phoning it in. 😂
One thing that bothers me, Dave poo poos on pet insurance. As a veterinarian who understands the actual veterinary business, I can say this is absolutely bad advice. Pet insurance saves lives every day. I have it on my own pets. One major illness, and it will more than pay for itself in the animal's lifetime.
Having a paid off mortgage gives you opportunity. I was mortgage free in 2006. In 2007, I bought the home I live in now for 63% off it's previous appraisal. Credit froze and banks wouldn't lend money on foreclosures. I used a heloc to purchase homes for pennies on the dollar. I paid for two homes in 10 years. One home is 3br 2.5 baths, bonus room above the garage, formal areas, fireplace, jetted tub, dead end street but 3 minutes to I20. The other home was a brick ranch with a detached garage on an 8 acre mini farm. 🚜 I'm mortgage free again and watching people rack up consumer debt. Inflation is no joke and eventually the music will stop. I'm not sure if housing will ever be at the prices they were back then but something will be a great deal in the next couple of years.
Money Guys serves high end folks that want optimization of their wealth, better. Dave is for people wanting to climb out of debt and build wealth. Love the Money Guys BUT don't understand why they think 25% saving is "enough". I'd imagine a considerable percentage of their listeners have accumulated healthy net worth and likely enjoy generous income too, so it's pretty easy for them to have BOTH 50%+ savings rate AND still participate in some fun lifestyle creep.
Yeah true but if you can put the money in a 10% return over 30 years ultimately you come out ahead. Additionally, if people can’t afford to get on the housing train at all without doing a 30 it’s just an affordability issue that may be worth it because at least you are invested in a home. I did a 30 year and we are trying to pay it off faster in 20 years or so…California houses :/
You guys are pretty much the opposite of Dave (open minded, honest, helpful vs dogmatic, loose with the truth and often flat out harmful). But I respect the game. Dave has a huge platform and you guys used it to expand your reach. I'm not mad at it, but don't lie to me lol
Dave's teachings work best for the majority of people. He has the success stories to back it. Dave doesn't take the complete math approach to his teachings. He goes after your emotions, targeting your behaviors that lead you into debt. You see most people wouldn't find success under money guys because money guys do promote juggling debt when needed which a lot of people simply can't handle.
My main gripe with Dave is this kind of blanket logic of "PAY OFF YOUR HOUSE EARLY". This is an extremely situational decision, IMO. If you're approaching retirement then pay off the house but I cringe when I see these couple in their 30's on Dave's show that are only saving 15% for retirement but have a paid off house. The likelihood of the younger couple staying in their paid off house until retirement is slim. People change and life changes so for younger people I stress the importance of saving as much as you can as early as you can.
It’s dumb af when you have a lower interest rate than you can earn investing the extra payment. It’s total insanity to pay off a 3.5% mortgage early when you can invest the differential payment to earn 4.5%
I am more of a fan of Dave. However, I still use credit cards and I know I spend more than I should be. I honestly wish I could get of them. I NEVER pay interest but I am buying things I would not if I didn’t have credit cards. Money guys! You guys are great however being 45 and debt free (house and all) is a feeling I think most Americans would prefer over when you are 60 or 65 possibly having more money saved. Getting squared away earlier (in my opinion) is so much more worth it. Both plans are good but Daves plan will have you feeling high so much earlier and when your all done (house and all) in your 40’s or even early 50’s to me is the way to go. Also if you continue to encourage people that credit cards are “ok” all the things you want people to do later (25% of their money invested) PROBABLY won’t happen if they aren’t allergic to credit cards because we all can attest they we spend more using them. I think you guys are truly great but not enough emphasis is placed on no debt because I think we all can admit debt robs us from our future.
I find it funny that when it comes to debt, especially when you are younger, FOO takes on a bit more risk than the Baby Steps. But that flips on the investment side. FOO has you investing a larger percentage in low risk index funds versus the Baby Steps managed mutual funds. I can say my journey fit the Money Guy path closer until hitting my early forties when my wife and I went full Ramsey to pay off all debt. After this whole path I fall between the two plans. If I had to start over, I would still use credit cards but avoid ever carrying a balance. I would avoid all debt except for a mortgage and with that I would get a 30 fixed but plan to pay it off at a slightly accelerated rate to cut the time to pay it off by 5 to 10 years. I would make sure to invest as much as I can early, because I missed out on this, but I was also rather fortunate that I got into a job that had an automatic investment plan, but this wasn’t until I was 7 years into my career. If I would have saved and invested over that time, I would have gained $20K to $50k and at this point It would have likely increased my net worth by $200K to $500K+. But these are now the lessons I will teach my kids and anyone else I can.
I'm still at a loss for HSA. Why spend $14000 a year for a health plan to put away $7000? That's over half my income! If I'd save the money that's I'd spend on insurance and put it into a high yield savings at least I'd get something back out of it? Insurance is ridiculously priced right now.
The most important thing about investing is knowing what to invest in. Where is you list of what we should buy? LOL As for earning 12% - where is that? My stocks/bonds are averaging less than 5% - because of inflation eating away at them.
why do both of you have to start off each video clip with some sort of insincere/fake schtick , like screaming "Dave Ramsey vs. the Money Guy" - Dave is primarily an entertainer (just like Jim Cramer on CNBC) ... you give out serious factual financial advice ... stop trying to 'compete' with every street-corner performer to attract their audience ... why? (1) in the long term it does not work - since you are not a very good entertainer (2) the fact is that your heart is not in it and everyone can see thru such "attention getter" openers that are best left to a TikTok audience ... same things with Bo starting every episode by screaming "I am so excited about ...... "
Dave has helped many many people and we should be grateful for him. But I agree with you guys that his one size fits all advice is often unwise. It would be insane for me to take $70,000 out of my retirement account which I am averaging over 12% a year to pay off a 3% mortgage, not to mention how much tax I would have to pay on that this year
Fairly new to financial UA-cam. My wife is already a financial mutant, but I have a question. Does that 25% toward retirement include my employer match? Or do I need to get up to 25% if my own money in addition to the employer match? Thanks
Love the video and the content. Do want to point out a small error on the baby step 7 evaluation. Its not just Build Wealth and Give. Its Build Wealth and Give Outrageously. The idea being that you're already giving after baby step 3(because you don't have money to give before that). So they very much encourage generosity throughout the process, its just encouraged to another level in 7 because you have the resources to go outrageous with it(ie a $1,000 tip at Waffle House or giving 50% of your income to charity, etc.)
I never understood why people would need dave over the money guy strategy until I tried to help my parents save for retirement. long story short they were trying to use credit cards as "good debt" to fund their business. Its very hard to flip a switch for those who've done it so long and people like that need dave's strict guidlines.
I know plenty of grown adults aged 30-92 who do not respect debt and constantly steal from their future without understanding what is going on. Dave Ramsey is for them.
That is such a good point. As much as everyone wants there to be a one-size-fits all strategy, it differs from person to person.
Totally. I really don’t care for Dave’s style and I’ve heard some things about him that I really wouldn’t agree with.
All that said, I truly can’t argue with the results. FPU works for people in the way that my finance nerd advice does not. So that’s good.
Similar experience with a co-worker. Not running a business, but just couldn’t handle the responsibility of managing the debt.
I mean to be fair, I use "Good debt" to fund my business and it has made me far more money than I could have if I would've been debt free and waited. The idea though is that you pay OFF that debt asap before it does eat away from your bottom line.
Dave’s method is good for people who don’t have good financial discipline. Most people don’t and Dave’s method helps break people’s bad financial habits.
Exactly! I use one credit card for convenience & pay it off weekly. I use it to fill my tank up with gas ⛽️ & buy groceries. I’m not getting rid of it!
That was me
😊👍 agree
I think you're totally right. Dave Ramsey is what some people need. But you can do better if you can handle it.
Dave jump started me. For 20 ys was drowning in debt even though my income doubled, almost tripled. I paid off 25k in 9 months (3 loans). Now taking a break to bulk up 401k.
27 year old me really needed Dave and 40 year old me appreciates your advice.
Same for me, Dave was my ticket to financial education and what led me down the path that ultimately had me on this channel. Dave gave me the tools to become debt free, The Money Guy gave me the tools to financially flourish in a way I never dreamed possible a decade ago. 33 250k liquid networth, zero debt. Thanks Chris and Bo
I'm a fan of both for sure.
My take is this: if you're on baby steps 1, 2, 3 as defined by Dave Ramsey, then stick with him.
If you're on steps 4, 5, and 6, it's time to listen to the money guys.
Each of those are great sources of financial advice.
I’ve posted numerous comments after Ramsey videos telling people it’s time for them to graduate to the Money Guy. Unfortunately Money Guy has lost their focus on teaching sophisticated points to the financial mutants.
Nailed it.
I kinda started going in the Money Guys direction even before I ever heard of them, which was only a couple of weeks ago. I definitely enjoy both though and they both do great work.
My wife and I did FPU and it revolutionize our finances and that was back in 2015. I still follow Ramsey Solutions but I have also been tuning more in the Money Guy Show. I couldn't agree more that a blend of the two strategies is huge. Move with gazelle intensity in Baby Steps 1-3 and in 4-6, apply the FOO and become a financial mutant.
I totally agree, I'm on bs 6 and with the high yield savings accts at 5.25% and my mortgage at 2.99%, I started to think I am probably in control enough at this point to funnel money to the hys acct. Once those rates start to tumble I can always move it to paying off the mortgage. But this would not work for someone likely to use that money for other things.
Dave is great for lighting the fire in you to take finances seriously and get your act together. I discovered him five years ago and paid off my student loans and car. Since then, once you get the general financial responsibility lessons- it’s time to graduate to the money guys.
I think that a good way to look at it he makes it simple enough for not very financially educated people to be successful
Agree....Dave starts that beginning you literally cannot do the money guys until you get out the debt. Also Dave has his ELP... Dave gets the monkey off the back... These guys help grow your money if you do not want to use an advisor.
Well said.
100% We did FPU; it got us started down the right path. We've made a ton of progress. But Caleb Hammer has pushed us over the edge. I'm here on the Money Guys because we need to know what to do after we're debt-free when the house gets paid off soon.
Nailed it
I started stacking to SAVE wealth. I've always been the type of person to spend my entire paycheck. I hate having money just sit in the bank. I am under pressure to grow my reserve of $950k. before I turn 60, I would appreciate any advice on potential investments.
I can feel your pains. New guys need to realize the risks that come with all of this. You could lose it all and you could win it all. It goes both ways. Second, what works for A may not necessarily work for B and you should not be a bandwagon investor. A good number of folks are raking in huge 6 figure gains in this downtrend, but such strategies are mostly successfully executed by folks with in depth market knowledge.
@@freedomisEexpensive-08 Factos!! Since the market became extremely volatile and pressure increased (I should be retiring in 17 months), I took the decision to work closely with a financial advisor. It has already been 9 months and counting, and I have made approximately 600K net from all of my holdings
@@NotyourBusiness-urto6 credits to NICOLE DESIREE SIMON, one of the best portfolio manager;s out there. she;s well known, you should look her up
I've loved the ramsey material but have started to disengage from it because of the company's social conservatism and religious influences. Nothing wrong with living your life like that! But if you listen to the callers, its kinda frustrating to see him telling a couple with 1 low income job that they can definitely have a 7th child, but that someone with even a penny of outstanding credit card balance can't order a pizza. I wouldn't say they are hypocritical, but there is DEFINITELY a bias
Lets not forget how badly Dave has shit on his employees.
I paid my house off just before I turned 40. I am a CPA, so I understand the math between the two approaches. However, for me, there isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t feel enriched from living in MY house. For me, what it may have cost me was worth it and now I invest with “gazelle intensity”!
Agreed. I'd love to see them make 2 different illustrations on this just for poops and giggles though.
And even if you pay it off it still costs you every year with taxes! I'm still a believer of you pay it off taxes shouldn't happen! This is a big reason why our elderly can't afford their homes after they pay them off.
@@randalfischer8939that would be a huge blow to state tax revenue. Which the elderly also rely on for healthcare etc.
I agree, I am financially disciplined, but I have a "safety" gene and want to have safe investments protected before the more risky ones. That brings a peace of mind that makes me enjoy life more having that security
When it's urs, it's urs. Minus property taxes. Good goal to have.
Dave Ramsey made me care about all of this. I could’ve skipped him and gone to you all, but he made me care enough to find you all.
Financial mutants will have to vote for the money guy show.
I always look forward to hearing what Bo is excited about in each episode.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 me too
I'm really excited about this comment! This is going to be the most exciting comment about Bo's excitement ever!
“Love it!!”-Bo
I started off listening to Dave. That was until I was honest with myself with why I had debt (post divorce shared debt) and realized I would respond better with data driven methodology rather than emotionally driven. I wasn’t in debt because of any particular bad habit but rather life simply happening; and in fact, I learned since starting consuming financial content I had an affinity for handling money. The Money Guys made me learn I love wanting to optimize rather than need to “fix” myself financially.
Ramsey is listening to your gut, money guy is listening to your brain. I listened to my gut until it came time to pay off the house early and then started listening to my brain
The point is to invest 15% then pay off the house. Then you invest as much as you can to build wealth. You don’t stay at the 15% forever
Yeah how the hell is someone nowadays making 40k BEFORE tax gonna be spending 10k a year on retirement when 15 should be plenty and that’s way better than most people that are way in debt.
You guys and Dave are all awesome. Main difference I see is that you are more math, Dave is more life. I experienced on myself that I consider my purchases 100 times to make sure I am getting the best deal since I don't use credit cards. I love spending money and it's easier if I don't have a credit card in my wallet which can get me in deep debt. It's the same as having to walk next to the cookie jar every 10 minutes when you are fat. It helps in my diet to forget to grab a cookie.
Yeah I think if you are a natural spender then what you say is true. For people that are natural savers and hate spending though I can see them using credit cards without getting into trouble with them.
Excellent video. I just want to comment that Dave's clients are usually less financially sophisticated and in more need of money education. I applaud Dave for being very simple, clear and very approachable. His books are at 6th grade reading level and ensure that people actually understand what to they are reading. Typical CFP program is getting really sophisticated really fast
Not gonna end up in bad shape with either one tbh. If you can handle a little bit more on your plate, I like the $ guy strategy more 😊. Worth the extra compound interest to not pay off the house before 45, 2% cash back on credit cards, and 20-25% rather than 15% savings during the process.
Also, contrary to what Dave says, it can be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to qualify for a home loan with no credit score, and therefore an entry-level credit card can be good for building credit in order to get a home loan.
However, I completely agree with him on avoiding credit card debt that you can’t pay off. I never use more than 25% of the limit (it won’t help your credit score as much otherwise), and it’s always an amount that I can easily pay off with cash.
perfect description!!!
Plus, taking advantage of 401k match before paying off debt, and the first step is better than Dave's baby step 1
Dave Ramsey is a racist tho. Very condescending to persons of color.
@@GeneralSirDouglasMcA I am going to say this -- I LOVE Dave Ramsey, but even before listening to these guys I had decided early I will NOT cut up my one credit card that has been with me for 10 or more years and when I didn't have a job, my credit card help me feed my family. I keep my credit card not only paid off, but even with a $100 credit, if I can. You have to eat the meat and spit out the bones. I also differ from these guys where I want to pay off my mortgage ASAP.
Why are you screaming?
Dave Ramsey says to tithe from the BEGINNING. But extreme generosity is what has to wait.
Tithing is not a NT command so I disagree with Dave on that point.
That seems only important to the religious crowd.
The money guy show just fits better in my situation, I can identify with everything. Thank you for all ya do! You guys have inspired me.
Fan of both. Think the main thing is to pick a plan and stick to it. Both are way better than no plan!
i actually use both.
Dave is better for paying off debt. i dont have a job with a 401k, i will have a pension plan. So i want to maximize my time horizon by NOT having debt by retirement and also having supplemental income from a personal ROTH.
also, also, i like my cars so i did my on spin off and will save for them in cash/investments/CDs so that I can pay in cash.
essentially, I decided on my maximum car price FOREVER. 35k for my entire life and will save for it in 5 year increments, so that by the time I retire, the money can pay for both repairs and the interest can perpetually accure. I mean I might buy a car every 5 years or actually wait every 10 years or even when it fully breaks down. THATS MY OPTION. but I'm not maxing out my money on vehicles that take away from retirement. While that sadly denies me certain types of vehicles, it enables my future self to one day make a FULLY FUNDED (ie not financed) dumb car purchase.
laugh at like im poor now, but I'm debt free. and I'll have enough WEALTH to pass off to my kids to have them born with silver spoons.
my great idea is that I can do a cash out refi my home and give the money to my kids so they can have a house PAID IN FULL and they just pay our mortgage and own 25% of the house. and when we die, they can have the home in full anyways. 😂😂😂. they can then fully use that home as a rental or sell it.
we would be dead anyways, but it could serve them well to do as they see fit.
KEY THING IS, to NOT have lots of kids. I want minimal inheritance.
100K ÷3 has less purchasing power than 100k ÷2.
this is my LIVING inheritance plan, aside from a life insurance policy.
Sounds like you guys are more geared for mathy people. I appreciate that, but I also appreciate how Dave Ramsey gives achievable advice for people who aren't going to dig into the numbers
Building wealth is 80% behavior and 20% head knowledge. Dave's plan is great for you to get control of the 80%. The money guy seems to just focus on the 20%. Thier plan will only work if you have the 80% under control. These two plans do not have to go counter to each other. They can compliment each other, but only if you get that 80% under control.
Simply, Dave wants you to build wealth while having good financial health and habits. Money guys just want to help you build maximum wealth fast and safe, assuming you already have good financial habits and responsibility.
After following the contrast for a while and deciding what is better, I eventually realized they're quite similar. Dave recommends only 15% to retirement investing while extra should be going to pay down mortgage. But then he also recommends 100% stocks for the retirement investing with no bonds. So he's basically just paying down the mortgage loan instead of buying bonds. If you consider that debt is a negative bond, this ends up being quite similar to just doing all investing in a balanced stock+bond portfolio.
Probably the most important thing to have fully paid off when you go into retirement is your house. When you are 25, paying off your mortgage quickly doesn’t make that much sense, but if you are 45 paying it off quickly is pretty important.
The one thing that Dave doesn’t go into is how to create cash flow in retirement. Rental properties is a good thing for that, dividend stocks or REITs is as well.
What’s important is to go into retirement with as few expenses as possible while creating a few streams of cash flow.
Not really. Focus on dividends is misplaced. Too many other simplistic misconceptions to get into. Check out Rob Berger videos, for example. With inflation at
5+%, why repay a
very unique way of looking at it, thanks for this perspective
Regardless of the difference between the two, I respect TMGS guys more because they can disagree with someone without calling them "stupid" or that they "live in their parents basement" - or justify why they're right because they're rich and have helped X million people. They back up their claims with facts and numbers.
You can tell that they have tremendous respect for Dave and are okay with people disagreeing with them. Dave really turns me off with how crass and disrespectful he is at times. He was being nice when they came to his office, but you could tell he was threatened that somebody else had actually come up with a system that was helping people and that could compete with the Baby Steps. Following the Baby Steps isn't going to lead you into a ditch by any means, but the FOO is just better and more realistic in today's world.
You guys covered it all here, but TMGS's take on credit card usage, home purchases, emergency reserves, and index funds vs. mutual funds makes so much more sense than Dave's alternative. I wish I had found you guys sooner.
Dave helped us immensely in our early thirties. We built on our success and have now moved on. Most Americans should follow Dave’s advice.
I started learning from Ramsey maybe 4 years ago, but glad to meet the Money Guys over the past year! I'm slowly moving to area between the two. I've always been responsible with money; never carried credit card balance, but was very skiddish with any kind of investing (retirement or otherwise). Been a slow but steady journey beginning in 2012. Maxed my retirement contribs for first time last year and accelerating!
The first criterion: if someone can and will follow one path and not the other, the one he'll actually DO is the best one (for him).
Dave is good for beginners and novices. Your program is for more advanced financial managers. Dave's method is better from a psychological perspective since most of the American population are beginners. For those of us who are more advanced your way is better, but you cannot force someone with a beginners mindset to practice advanced actions until there mindset fundamentally changes. That psychological connection with money that has made Dave so simple. Keep it simple and easy to understand for 80% of the population.
I started with Dave and graduated to money guy. I really believe you all go hand in hand with each other.
The reason dave does it the way he does is because he's trying to change habits. You cannot say the rewards of a card are good to someone who already has shown the ability to mismanage their money. It's all psychology.
Honestly following either would put you far ahead of most people because most people don't have a plan for their money.
The Money Guy Show is for financially sound people. Dave Ramsey is for those with large amounts of debt.
I see it as Ramsey is going to high school, and TM Guys are teaching like you were in grad school, they both complement each olther.
Dave is for the idiots
Dave agrees with “tithing” from the beginning. His step 7 is extreme over the top, above and beyond at step 7
All these recommendations are good but very few people will follow them. Sad. A typical 25 year old will see age 65 as too far to wait, they want to enjoy the fruits of their labor NOW!
My favorites:
Caleb Hammer - Low level get off your a$$ advice. You really don't need a CFA for someone to tell you carrying credit card debt is bad. He's entertaining and personable and relatable, and puts a big emphasis on things like physical and mental health which I often see glossed over or ignored.
Money Guys - Lots of well thought out data and they explain a lot of the process behind it. With the both of them the conversational method helps sort a lot of chaff advice you hear from reality. Still though, they don't lose sight of many implications others gloss over like taxes, emotional decision making, and inflation. They also don't seem to do click-baiting titles.
John Bogle - The O.G. He literally changed the game. Of course most of his stuff is in books instead of videos, but he acts as a great foundation into academic level understanding before you start diving deeper.
I look at Dave’s plan as the first step basics to learning how to manage your finances, a plan for life time security. I look at the Money Guy as the next step after the basics, a plan for life time comfort.
There’s something in both strategies that’s missing. That is: have an individual Brokerage Account. It would prevent, to a degree, what we see happening now. Right now in our tough economy, many, many people are dipping into their 401k, destroying it, to get money to just cover their monthly bills. If they had an Individual Brokerage Account where they had built up some money for non retirement use then rather than destroying their retirement they could use this account as a buffer. Also it would be a buffer protecting them from using their emergency fund for everyday living expenses. People seem to have forgotten about these types of accounts, but, boring as this type of account might be, it does have a place in a good financial strategy.
Why would you pull from your brokerage account instead of your emergency fund?
@@haydenclement2738 well, I think the emergency fund is for emergencies only and not necessarily for regular living expenses. If you depleate the emergency fund on routine living expenses then you won’t have anything left for an emergency. I had to dip into my emergency fund once for an emergency. I woke up one Sunday morning to take my little guy to Cub Scouts. When I went to get into the car turns out someone had crashed into my car during the night while I was asleep. The whole front drivers side was smashed in, tire flat and bent so badly that it wouldn’t turn. None of this was visible from the other side. I do have insurance, but a thousand dollar deductible and it took a month to get the car fixed and I had to rent a car for that month. There was over $8,000 of damage to the car. I used the emergency fund to pay the deductible and car rental cost. Something like that, an unexpected occurrence, can happen regardless of what the economy is doing. Thank goodness I had an emergency fund!
If you need to get out of (bad) debt like credit cards, than Dave is your guy, but if you're out of bad debt, then TMG will move you forward in creating wealth, which sometimes includes having some low-cost debt, like mortgages
The 30yr vs 15yr is a risky way of lifestyle creep. This requires a mountain of self-control and the highest levels of executive function. Your comments at the end are on point. We needed Dave to get started; we're getting to a place where your advice makes sense for us.
Both strategies are that.. strategies. Dave's is way more conservative compared to your guys, but the math doesn't lie. You guys leverage more. That's always gonna win out when compared to a cash on cash approach. That said, after some point, what are you gonna do with cash on hand.
Dave’s strategy is for people who basically cannot handle debt or credit responsibly. There’s a lot of people out there who cannot have credit cards because they will bury themselves in debt and interest. Neither set of principles will steer you wrong! Both ideologies will land you in a good financial position when you’re nearing retirement. Both require sound decision making and discipline.
Which is the majority of people
Right !
I agree that it is the majority of people. My criticism of Dave would be that he thinks it's 100% of people.
that's all apart of the mental gane though. You're not seeing that. For the sake of the majority he has to be 100% with his points unless he's outright incorrect. Because people listen in and if they hear flip-flop or exceptions people will always think their different.@@theduke7616
Dave is really locked into the 15% retirement. Heard him shredding a couple because the woman wanted to save 20%. Of course Dave claimed that he is the expert and somehow saving more was stupid. I like him but he is very defensive about sticking to his plan. I use credit cards for all purchases and bills and pay them off at the end of each month. Received $900.00 cash back this year and paid 0 interest. Dave would argue this is wrong too.
Yeah, that $900 really made you rich. Nothing wrong with it of course, but don't act like it moves the needle in any way.
He’s an asshole and super defensive when people just ask questions because he knows he’s wrong and he looks like a dummy when people prove he can’t do basic math
@@acebragg5559what’s 500-900 in cash back invested over 20+ years? 35-50k+. That’s a car.
@@acebragg5559it doesn’t but cash back rewards are not taxable, so if you’re using CCs correctly (CORRECTLY) then you can buffer your accounts with what you get back.
It’s the way that Dave gets so condescending when someone disagrees or challenges him that turns me off from him.
I have a difficult time abiding by anyone's advice who says to account for charity/tithing as part of a budget when you're in debt yourself. That's not sound financial advice.
Back about 2-3 years ago when I got my first 'big kid job" and started finding some UA-cam channels and found Graham Stephen, Ramsey, and such and started seeing the advice and going okay, well close enough, but I'll do a few things my own, I finally found a video that talks about some differences of opinion with the baby steps, and have found and loved this series since.
As someone who's income has climbed into a position where I can let my financial mutations show. I'll admit this content (Along with some of the books) have gotten me from 'just the match' and paying down some student loans to paid off student loans, maxed out 401ks, IRA, and HSAs, and it's fun to see this go full circle now for me.
Feels like the Star Wars line, When I left you I was, but a learner, now I am the master.
2:02 he has done some good, wow the arrogance from the host is absolutely appalling.
Dave has 100 times the wealth you have, and 50 times more charisma
I have a lot of corporate finance and strategy experience and so I am often asked about what I invest in. I always answer the same way. "Do you have credit card debt? Because if you do you need to follow Dave Ramsey. You are going to hear about Jesus more than you want to, but just like AA it works. You are the financial equivalent of an alcoholic. If you don't have credit card debt, follow the money guy."
Dave Ramsey is good for financial illiterates. The Money Guy is good for financial mutants.
I’ve always told people financial advice depends on their financial behavior. if you lack financial discipline Dave Ramsey is your man. If you are past that hurdle you the maximizing strategy you guys pitch.
I think the only issue with being 25 and saving 25% is not realistic. I was barely making enough to get by. I had to get a second job and go to night school to just barely break even.
This
Great points they have. Dave is definitely the way to go if your problem is behavioral and discipline.
I had to stop listening to Dave during the pandemic, just because someone is good at helping people with their personal finances does not make them an expert in public health. Same goes for national and global fiscal and monetary policy. When Clark Howard and the Money Guy talk politics (which sometimes you have to do as a financial guy) they at least can take a step back and see all sides of the issues.
I agree with this. The Money Guy show does such a good job handling "political" issues when they have to. They do a great job not ostracizing any groups of people.
And now look, the cdc has back tracked basically everything and Dave isn’t as wrong as the news claimed he was 😂
@@morbotheturtle3796 Dave was completely wrong. We’ve had 4 surges in the past 2.5 years with peak hospitalizations. So far this winter looks better then previous but we’ll see. Mass vaccinations have definitely helped. Dave downplayed COVID and the data has proven him wrong.
@@morbotheturtle3796 over a million Americans died from covid, f off
@@jtowensbyiii6018 allegedly. But hospitals have been proven to lie about the numbers because they get paid a bonus for covid death reports. There have been individuals who have died in car accidents that were claimed as covid deaths. Obviously not all, but it’s far less than a million actually died of covid.
I like that you're recognizing what Dave does well. I think you could have spent even a minute more on the psychology aspect. That example is great of the folks you've been telling to get out of credit card debt over and over and they don't listen but then they find this guy named Dave Ramsey and all of the sudden they've stopped carrying debt and aren't living on credit cards anymore. Why? Because it's not about math for them. It's about behavior and that's what he addresses better than anyone else. I also don't agree with Dave on everything but for those who would suggest he's not doing a ton of good, you aren't seeing the whole picture. I'm glad I found you guys though. I'm passed the baby steps and would like some advice for people who are good with money but need to avoid pitfalls.
I'm currently getting my MBA with a focus in Finance. I agree Dave's info is very outdated. $1,000 is not enough for emergency funds and social security is anyone's guess now
I wish I had found you guys a long time ago, before my friend recommended Dave Ramsey to me. I really didn’t buy Dave’s methodology even tho I have huge respect for that guy. In my line of work, I see rich folks getting loans to fund their businesses and I don’t agree with his attitude towards loan. His mortgage plan is also pretty ridiculous to me… and so I didn’t follow his other advice. Your FOO tho makes soooo much sense to me and I wish i had followed you guys earlier.
I love both dave and the money guys. The reality is both camps have done a world of good for so many people. Regardless of who you think is right, you're going to win with either strategy. I use credit cards, i think you can use one wisely. But i agree with Dave. Even if you optimally use a credit card for points, it is not going to move the needle on your wealth building whatsoever. So if you cant control your spending, cut it up.
Wow. I've been watching Dave Ramsey for years and have been beginning my baby steps this past year. Then found The Money Guy and wanted to know the differences. Low and behold they have a video on it! And low low and behold it JUST came out!! Thanks for the information guys. I have some things to consider.
I will never not laugh at Brian’s transformer sound effect.
Personally, I think setting it at 25% when most folks (60+%) can barely set aside 5 -10% is too lofty. 15% gets you there in time unless you are are simply to old to hit the mark. Obviously the math is better for 25% (duh), but for the majority of people? 15% is a great goal to strive for. And accessible to people just out of college, getting first homes and cars. Just my opinion, I'm with Dave on this one, also noteworthy that he does recommend more for older folks who are behind.
Baby steps vs FOO is the similar to debt snowball vs debt avalanche. Both are good. Both have their pros and cons.
The 80% of millionaires are self-generated … does that not overlook the fact that most are likely baby boomer and/or silent generation? Additionally, for those that are younger, I’m curious how that number is skewed towards those that had “stable” conditions (housing, good schooling, tutors, family paid/assisted with education, connections, etc) versus those that were within unstable conditions (debt, foreclosed, poor, struggling).
Before watching:
Dave Ramsey focuses more on developing a stay-out-of-debt frugal mindset, then save for retirement. He teaches you how to start rolling up a snowball.
The Money Guys teach you how to push that snowball down the hill (army of dollar bills). They assume you've made the snowball already and focus on optimizing your wealth journey.
If you have credit card debt and want to be able to sleep better at night, follow Dave.
If you want to save up X million of dollars so that you can do X, Y, and Z, follow The Money Guys.
I want to sleep well at night AND do X, Y, and Z
Ramsey is for those with no discipline.. MG is for those with some basic financial education and at least SOME built in discipline. Starting saving EARLY is extremely powerful. Starting < age 24 can set you up with much less stressful messy middle.
I appreciate how you handled this, financial mutant now after Dave got me started. Very classy content from you guys while staying strong with the FOO
I’m in the same boat
One of your best videos, great explanations and comparisons, lots of information and what mindset lead to each strategy, always been a fan - love your fiduciary work as always!
Man I’m happy I found these guys. I’m 28 but have only been in my career for a year. I’m gonna have to do some research and watch more videos going forward. Found Dave first so I’ve just been paying debt for the last year.
Some people ask me for financial advice, and I typically recommend the baby steps. The simplicity of his plan just makes it easier to recommend for someone who’s beginning to step up their finances.
I will also tell them about the FOO. I just tell people that all playbooks will work- if you work the plan.
Dave is great at getting people to take action and that’s why his plan works. He gets people to actually do it!!
Good show. Did notice some information that wasn't exactly accurate in regards to the baby steps, but overall not bad.
Don't spend money you don't have. Don't spend all the money you do have. Everything else is just details.
Conveniently left out baby step 7 where you take all the money you were paying on the house and use that money to build huge wealth.
This
Dave’s baby steps were just easier to understand and follow. From the FOO 1st step, I didn’t understand what the steps were talking about. It would be more helpful if the FOO steps included examples of what they’re talking about with each step. To be honest, after going through the effort of downloading the FOO steps, and not understanding them, I got discouraged and never looked at them again. Dave baby step: save 3-6 months for Emergency Funds…easy to understand.
I do love this show, but I just don’t get FOO.🤷🏻♀️
Im too old to have listened to you money guys. Charles Givens did give me the nugget (among other factors to be honest) that allowed me to retire a year early. His saying was “pay yourself first” which is exactly your recommendation to max out your 401k/403b/IRA. Young people DO IT you won’t regret it.
I think the biggest difference between the money guys and Dave is that, Money guys show us how powerful $1 is,
while Dave is laughing and calling you stupid for getting $20 cashback for spending $1000 on a credit card, even if that $1000 was necessities and you didnt pay single penny as interest.
Well put. The Ramsey Solutions Team will never admit that there are people who have more financial discipline than a five year old, and will make misleading statements about things they don't understand.
@@tcgtpl Agree. They should include a segment for those who have achieved BS7 and are financially disciplined and able to use credit cards to our advantage.
@@jimhandler1129 They’ll never do that, though. Mr Ramsey’s rise to fame is due to his hardline stance on debt, and has openly stated his hatred for credit cards (especially American Express). The Ramsey Solutions Team will always badmouth credit cards & banks.
@@tcgtpl Dave always brings up how millionaires didn't make their money off of getting credit card rewards, which is true, but he never says how many millionaires actually have and know how to use credit cards to their advantage.
Dave does point out that the cash back you get is basically funded by some poor financially irresponsible person that is drowning in debt. He has acknowledged that some people can make it work, but he is still against it.
I don’t think you fairly portrayed Dave’s stance on generosity by only mentioning it at Baby Step 7. He encourages people to give 10% from the beginning, even while saving the starter emergency fund or working the debt snowball. If there is a difference between your shows, I would say Dave emphasizes generosity much more consistently than Money Guy.
Dave is very much Christian based which I appreciate
the money guys are maximizers id bet they can see how giving 10% could maximize there finances whereas Dave believes more money comes to an open hand
Dave recognizes the mental changes that have to take place. He calls paying off those smalls debts little wins. It keeps you motivated to continue the process. If you’re working and working on one big loan with the highest interest. It’s gonna take far longer to pay off and mentally, you may get tired and give up.
I follow both Daves and you money guy guidance. In particular what you say about auto purchases Brian if a person isn't knowledgeable about cars and car maintenance even though new cars do depreciate a person could end up spending more in the long run buying used cars and constantly paying a mechanic money getting them fixed.
You can not work on a new car with all the computerization. Even the manual will tell you "no user maintenance" the backyard mechanic days are over forever!
Dave is way out of touch on the Car issue
15 percent is enough. I’m not gonna just revolve my entire life around saving for retirement when 15 percent will do the job.
I’m listening to them talk about saving 25%, and back when our marriage was young, we were budgeting 10-15% for church and other donations, and we basically had a rice & beans budget. I was a SAHM, and it was hard. We could do that now, but when we were spending half what other people were spending on groceries, and there just wasn’t money left at the end of the month… it wasn’t possible. And we budgeted. Diligently. Didn’t matter. If we hadn’t had 3 kids, I could have worked and it would have been easy. The only debt we ever had was a mortgage; if we used a credit card, we paid it right off. Thankfully we are in a much better place now. But my husband won’t listen to me anyway when it comes to money. So we paid off our home in 18 months, and he’s looking at buying a second house soon as he can save up a down payment. Still isn’t funding retirement.
Is there a topic that Bo isn't really excited about?
Haven't found one yet!
@@MoneyGuyShow Bwaahaahaa 😂🤣
Every time they set up for a live show I think to myself "Lemme guess, Bo is gonna be really excited about this..."
Sounds like a future April Fools’ Day episode. I can envision the opening: I’m not at all excited about this show. Today’s show is going to be so depressing to me. I couldn’t give a rat’s rear end about the topics we’re going to cover. I hope you all down a couple more cups of coffee because I’m phoning it in. 😂
One thing that bothers me, Dave poo poos on pet insurance. As a veterinarian who understands the actual veterinary business, I can say this is absolutely bad advice. Pet insurance saves lives every day. I have it on my own pets. One major illness, and it will more than pay for itself in the animal's lifetime.
Simply put, if you need to survive, go with Ramsey. If you want to thrive, Money Guy.
Dumb blanket comment. Literally millions of people have followed Ramsey and thrived.
Having a paid off mortgage gives you opportunity. I was mortgage free in 2006. In 2007, I bought the home I live in now for 63% off it's previous appraisal.
Credit froze and banks wouldn't lend money on foreclosures. I used a heloc to purchase homes for pennies on the dollar. I paid for two homes in 10 years. One home is 3br 2.5 baths, bonus room above the garage, formal areas, fireplace, jetted tub, dead end street but 3 minutes to I20. The other home was a brick ranch with a detached garage on an 8 acre mini farm. 🚜
I'm mortgage free again and watching people rack up consumer debt. Inflation is no joke and eventually the music will stop. I'm not sure if housing will ever be at the prices they were back then but something will be a great deal in the next couple of years.
Money Guys serves high end folks that want optimization of their wealth, better. Dave is for people wanting to climb out of debt and build wealth. Love the Money Guys BUT don't understand why they think 25% saving is "enough". I'd imagine a considerable percentage of their listeners have accumulated healthy net worth and likely enjoy generous income too, so it's pretty easy for them to have BOTH 50%+ savings rate AND still participate in some fun lifestyle creep.
Dave is for people who are having financial difficulties. The Money Guy is for people who don't need Dave. Both are doing good work.
I feel like it's disingenuous to talk about 15 year and 30 year mortgages without discussing how much you end up paying for the home in the end.
Yeah true but if you can put the money in a 10% return over 30 years ultimately you come out ahead. Additionally, if people can’t afford to get on the housing train at all without doing a 30 it’s just an affordability issue that may be worth it because at least you are invested in a home. I did a 30 year and we are trying to pay it off faster in 20 years or so…California houses :/
You guys are pretty much the opposite of Dave (open minded, honest, helpful vs dogmatic, loose with the truth and often flat out harmful). But I respect the game. Dave has a huge platform and you guys used it to expand your reach. I'm not mad at it, but don't lie to me lol
Dave's teachings work best for the majority of people. He has the success stories to back it. Dave doesn't take the complete math approach to his teachings. He goes after your emotions, targeting your behaviors that lead you into debt.
You see most people wouldn't find success under money guys because money guys do promote juggling debt when needed which a lot of people simply can't handle.
My main gripe with Dave is this kind of blanket logic of "PAY OFF YOUR HOUSE EARLY". This is an extremely situational decision, IMO. If you're approaching retirement then pay off the house but I cringe when I see these couple in their 30's on Dave's show that are only saving 15% for retirement but have a paid off house. The likelihood of the younger couple staying in their paid off house until retirement is slim. People change and life changes so for younger people I stress the importance of saving as much as you can as early as you can.
It’s dumb af when you have a lower interest rate than you can earn investing the extra payment.
It’s total insanity to pay off a 3.5% mortgage early when you can invest the differential payment to earn 4.5%
The point is to invest 15% then pay off the house. Then you invest as much as you can to build wealth. You don’t stay at the 15% forever
@@DennisMemmolo Yes sir I get that but that doesn’t always make sense.
Fifth grade English ,:
When comparing just TWO things, one is
BETTER, not BEST
(good, better, best)
I am more of a fan of Dave. However, I still use credit cards and I know I spend more than I should be. I honestly wish I could get of them. I NEVER pay interest but I am buying things I would not if I didn’t have credit cards. Money guys! You guys are great however being 45 and debt free (house and all) is a feeling I think most Americans would prefer over when you are 60 or 65 possibly having more money saved.
Getting squared away earlier (in my opinion) is so much more worth it. Both plans are good but Daves plan will have you feeling high so much earlier and when your all done (house and all) in your 40’s or even early 50’s to me is the way to go.
Also if you continue to encourage people that credit cards are “ok” all the things you want people to do later (25% of their money invested) PROBABLY won’t happen if they aren’t allergic to credit cards because we all can attest they we spend more using them. I think you guys are truly great but not enough emphasis is placed on no debt because I think we all can admit debt robs us from our future.
Money Guys and Graham Stephan for advanced learners, Dave Ramsey for intermediates, and Caleb Hammer for idiots and total beginners
Hmmm 🧐 let’s see…a LITERAL BILLIONAIRE vs. 2 UA-cam quacks 😅….yeah I think I made my mind up 😂🎉
If I put roughly 20% then I hit the 401k maximum. Since you guys preach 25%, should i get either a brokerage account or a IRA?
I find it funny that when it comes to debt, especially when you are younger, FOO takes on a bit more risk than the Baby Steps. But that flips on the investment side. FOO has you investing a larger percentage in low risk index funds versus the Baby Steps managed mutual funds. I can say my journey fit the Money Guy path closer until hitting my early forties when my wife and I went full Ramsey to pay off all debt. After this whole path I fall between the two plans. If I had to start over, I would still use credit cards but avoid ever carrying a balance. I would avoid all debt except for a mortgage and with that I would get a 30 fixed but plan to pay it off at a slightly accelerated rate to cut the time to pay it off by 5 to 10 years. I would make sure to invest as much as I can early, because I missed out on this, but I was also rather fortunate that I got into a job that had an automatic investment plan, but this wasn’t until I was 7 years into my career. If I would have saved and invested over that time, I would have gained $20K to $50k and at this point It would have likely increased my net worth by $200K to $500K+. But these are now the lessons I will teach my kids and anyone else I can.
I'm still at a loss for HSA. Why spend $14000 a year for a health plan to put away $7000? That's over half my income! If I'd save the money that's I'd spend on insurance and put it into a high yield savings at least I'd get something back out of it? Insurance is ridiculously priced right now.
The most important thing about investing is knowing what to invest in. Where is you list of what we should buy? LOL As for earning 12% - where is that? My stocks/bonds are averaging less than 5% - because of inflation eating away at them.
why do both of you have to start off each video clip with some sort of insincere/fake schtick , like screaming "Dave Ramsey vs. the Money Guy" - Dave is primarily an entertainer (just like Jim Cramer on CNBC) ... you give out serious factual financial advice ... stop trying to 'compete' with every street-corner performer to attract their audience ... why?
(1) in the long term it does not work - since you are not a very good entertainer
(2) the fact is that your heart is not in it and everyone can see thru such "attention getter" openers that are best left to a TikTok audience ... same things with Bo starting every episode by screaming "I am so excited about ...... "
Dave has helped many many people and we should be grateful for him. But I agree with you guys that his one size fits all advice is often unwise. It would be insane for me to take $70,000 out of my retirement account which I am averaging over 12% a year to pay off a 3% mortgage, not to mention how much tax I would have to pay on that this year
Fairly new to financial UA-cam. My wife is already a financial mutant, but I have a question. Does that 25% toward retirement include my employer match? Or do I need to get up to 25% if my own money in addition to the employer match? Thanks
If you tell the general public to invest 25% it is overwhelming and too hard and they won’t do it
Love the video and the content. Do want to point out a small error on the baby step 7 evaluation. Its not just Build Wealth and Give. Its Build Wealth and Give Outrageously. The idea being that you're already giving after baby step 3(because you don't have money to give before that). So they very much encourage generosity throughout the process, its just encouraged to another level in 7 because you have the resources to go outrageous with it(ie a $1,000 tip at Waffle House or giving 50% of your income to charity, etc.)