Thanks for watching! I apologize for the two times the screen becomes green. Blame it on UA-cam. For some reason there was a mistake during the upload (which I wasn't informed about). This doesn't happen in the original file, so UA-cam is to blame. Oddly enough this does NOT happen if you watch the video on phone. I do hope they auto-fix it as it's on their end and it might occur again if I simply reupload. Sorry for the inconvenience! Cheers 🧙♂
Honestly I'd be okay with no more mediocre garbage set in middle earth getting pushed into the public... And we just have whatever we have already... The books are the only real way to ingest middle earth anyways
What is this continuous narrative of Rohan and Gondor being too proud to ask for aid? Does the Oath of Cirion and Eorl mean nothing in the cinematic space?
@@deanzaZZR they have a tapestry depicting Eorl in the Two Towers I believe, but I think that’s the only reference to him in film so far and it’s a blink or you’ll miss it thing.
@@deanzaZZR I don't think it's hate for Gondor in this movie, but more Helms own pride and trust in his own strength. Calling for Gondor was in the end the first proposal from Frealef.
I will say that I appreciate that Hera was not written as an overbearing girl boss (except for the end). That said the finale was utterly sad with its implication. Essentially stating that a person, particularly women, are only free when apart from marriage. This is wild and quite antithetical to Toilken’s ideas. Not that people must be married, but that marriage can lead to fulfillment for both man and woman. I will also note that Olwyn was more frustrating for me than Hera.
Could someone define what "girl boss" even is? Does it just mean "female protagonist who does anything other than get married" at this point? Because that's what it feels like.
@@jojobookish9529the first characteristic of a girl boss is the motivation behind her creation. Girls bosses usually appear in franchises that are expected to have a male protagonist, to replace them. (Checks ou) Second, established legacy lore is changed to accommodate her. (Checks out) Third, she is shown to be in general equally or more competent than men despite that not being consistent with her context (checks out) Fourth, she rejects her traditional role in society, as if that was something that holds her back. (Checks out too) Lastly, but not least, it is stated, or at least implied, that she embraces a lifestyle that goes contrary to the morality of the autor (Hera states she doesn't want to marry no man, and she departs with another woman by the end, implying she's lesbian). "Girls boss", "Mary Sue" those are terms usually used to describe these types of characters. Sometimes people are hyperbolic when using such terms, but in general it's not hard to understand why they would do so. The main characteristic of a "Girls boss" is that you can easily argue she only exists for ideological reasons, since she will always be grossly out of place and people will go out of their way to insert her in a story that would otherwise have a male protagonist.
So Helm is still the main draw, despite being sidelined by "Hera." I wish the whole film was about him and his tragedy, rather than subtle feminism injected here. Hera is basically the Mary Sue, who can never offer wrong advice and who is constantly being praised as the best (despite no evidence of that), and her guard, an old shieldmaiden, is the girl-boss, who can hold off a whole room of basically 6-foot Viking warriors. I have to take a cold pass at this, as I would not be able to look past those two things.
My main takeaway from this is that it diminishes Eowyn. If this happened only a few generations ago, how come fighting women aren't the norm when they are clearly this superior just by nature? Theoden would be like "Eowyn, round up all your fellow women and ride with us. We will need the REAL warriors for this one!"
@@pewthepuny2849 Because: Fighting women are to rare. Hera is a noble girl, who probably had the time and some training for the fighting (probably taking it in the free time). Most girls wouldnt had that chance or interesst. In addition was it stated, that the shield maids only showed up, after most men died in a conflict. And doesnt existed after that anymore. Hera had a lot of trouble again most men. Except the main villian. Only the maid was a bit to much in that area (her comes the popint, that only the girls used shields in the movie). In additon was the story telled by Eowyn. Its possible, that she simply maked some changed, to inspiring girls to become shield maids. The movie has some weak points (like everything). But in overall is the movie entertaining and ok.
He was a side chara. But, had enough iompactfull scene to make it up. How would you even wanted to make this movie, with him as MC, when even the original lore stated, that he died in it and that the king after him taked the rest of the conflict? When a mc is dying in his own movie, is it mostly at the end of it, with a few scene left after that. In this case, would whe had a whole battle left, without the mc. In addition was the original conflict even, because Wulf wanted to marry his daughter and he accidantly killed his father. How would than look the in-between time of the movie, between the conflicts? As a old man and king wouldnt he be able to move much around. The movie stated, that there was some month, before the conflict started. With him as MC,. would there pracitcly only room for politic part befor the battle started. But, from what i had readed, had Condor in original not much to do, except, of showing up at the end and help the people. Helm was probably the more interessting guy. But, he doesnt looked to be fit of beeing the MC of this story. Beeing a side chara was truly the better place for him.
@ Did Tolkien even maked a story? As much as i has readed, was the whole part only a summary, when in the extra of the third movie the lineage of the Rohan king was explained (that he is from the second lineage of kings, while Helm died by Helms Kamm, while one son died in battle and the other vanished in winter, when he searched for food, and, that the next king leaded the fight again Wulf, killed him and Gondor showed up at the end for help). As much as I understand it, had he never created a full working story. The only difference is, that the stuff that Hera did, was supposed to be done be the other guy. And, that the other guy taked the role of Condor. Except of this small change, does I see no big difference in the potentiell of the storytelling. Both chara would had simply switched there roles. But, both had needed to be extended to work for a movie. And, why not take the daughter as the mc, when both versions was allready about her and Helm (who had to die in all version)? Maybe, they could had included the next king a bit more. But aside of that was most of the stuff ok (but yeah, the story could had worked even with a male).
@@squaeman_2644 what story Tolkien made? It takes 2-3 pages in the appendices and there's barely anything there. What about Cirion and Eorl? What, the story they don't have rights to because it's in Unfinished Tales?
Olwyn is the most out of place for me, even the Shieldmaiden thing. Why make them House/Order with a crest? instead of cultural concepts? I get annoyed when she acts like a leader, whether it's the evacuation of Edoras or the command of Fort Hornburg. In every situation, there should be Rohan officers with higher ranks and authority than her, but she's the only one taking command.
The MCU esqe “I’m forming a team” ending with Gandalf sounds awful. The movie still looks awesome in many areas, but man, Hera is such a dumb addition. What were they thinking?
@ I think the biggest problem with this film is that there were two versions of it. Originally it was written by the guys behind the Dark Crystal Netflix series, but somewhere along the line they were let go and Boyens’ daughter finished the script. Due to Hera and Olwyn’s similarities to the Boyens mother and daughter I wouldn’t be surprised if they were an invention of the rewritten script.
I didn't get the impression that she was teaming up with Gandalf, MCU style. He just wanted to ask her some questions, and there her contribution to history ends. Beyond that, Gandalf is known, canonically, for establishing connections with oddball people from various societies -- the Tooks, Bilbo, Faramir. All of them are a little weird for their people; the Tooks and Bilbo with their adventuring, Faramir with his Numenorean sensibilities. Héra fits right in.
@Arcessitor No, they weren't. The movie has its problems, but by in large, it's about as faithful to Tolkien canon as the Peter Jackson trilogy is. It does nothing to betray the lore in any egregious way. Helm has a daughter, she's unnamed, all they did was give her a story and a name. She takes nothing away from established characters, save for it being her who kills Wulf. You can dislike the movie, but they played faithful to the lore, even down to having Saruman take residence of Isengard AFTER the War. You wanna talk about desecration of Tolkien lore, check out Rings of Power or the Shadow of Mordor games.
Where are all the film directors wanting to do an original and faithful take on Tolkien's works? Feels like everyone is interested in money rather than passion. It is a shame Tolkien's works are not getting enough love in adaptations these days.
It’s pretty sad. I would have thought the Peter Jackson films would have inspired many people to want to become directors like the original Star Wars films did. Maybe they’re just not getting the jobs to work on Lord of the Rings adaptations for whatever reason?
Very fair review and excellent points were made! Me and my wife took our nieces and nephews to see it and we all really enjoyed it. The kids are Ghibli-heads, so it was nice to use this as a springboard to further introduce them to more Lord of the Rings content. During dinner after the movie, my nieces actually asked for the books as a possible Christmas gift (already ordered them 😀) so I see the movie as a win.
The character designs are much better than the ugly Bashki ones, not to mention the horrible (to the point of being unwatchable) ones from Rankin-Bass. Héra's character design is definitely waifu level.
I completely agree with your assessment of this film ... and the point well stated about Anglo-Saxon society with women's roles and Middle Earth as Tolkien stressed in his Legendarium. They were a predominately patriarchal society. That being said, Hollywood not depicting this "Tolkien" story is too female dominated (girl-boss, Mary Sue) and trying to diminish the male characters, is what ruined the story for me. And I am a woman making this comment.
I really don't buy this argument that because the society is patriarchal, this story is impossible or too implausible and shouldn't have been done. By that logic, Eowyn's story is too implausible and should not have been done. By that logic, any woman in our own real world who has lived against patriarchal norms is too implausible and her story shouldn't be acknowledged or imagined in any way. Rohirric culture is still patriarchal, potentially more so if you account for cultural shift (such things do not move in a straight line towards greater equality), by the War of the Ring. Gandalf and Eomer talk about it openly. Eowyn talks about it openly. Her whole rationale for riding to war is to have a chance of dying in battle and therefore gaining honor and recognition among her people because that is what they value. The patriarchal, honor based, war-glorifying norms of her culture cause her in-text, canonical distress that motivates her actions. But her society was patriarchal...so none of that should exist. Right? Our ideas of medieval society, especially in regards to the position and roles of women, are more reflective of Victorian norms than the actual medieval era. Women were not thought of as the inherently delicate "angel of the house", incapable of anything mentally or physically strenuous, capable only of sitting demurely at home in the eras Rohan's culture is drawn from. This is well acknowledged by medievalists. Women taking up the last defense is not some modern feminist projection. It's known from Anglo-Saxon and Nordic medieval and earlier societies, as well as in Japanese history. But at the end of the day, this is FANTASY. If you can accept sentient giant eagles and snow trolls and magic rings, but draw the line at a woman doing anything other than sitting silently next to the men and getting married because "it's not historically accurate," you're creating your own problems.
War of the Rohirrim turned out to be a fanfiction like the other one we know well! Sad they never delved deep into Helm's heir, Haleth, and his second son, Háma. And future king, Fréaláf, was relegated to a guest star status. Helm's legacy as the Hammerhand was overshadowed by this unnamed daughter (I will not utter her name because linguistically, it doesn't fit the Rohirric naming system). Though I have to say, this is a better fanfiction than Amazon's take. While it did take liberties, it's still grounded in the lore (if you remove the prominence of the unnamed daughter).
Regardless: Mine heart cries, lie broken in grief, Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens. Of the mortals to dare trample on Tolkien's lore, thou are the last people I will ever have conjured. Mine tears flowing ever eternally for thine creation of a Mary Sue, Disregarded the legend that is Helm Hammerhand, Haleth and Háma's importance, robbed of agency, Fréaláf pushed aside, his glory taken. When dost the storm end, The age of Mary Sue's and heart-wrenching murder of lore dost fall?
As the daughter of the king, it would be even more important for her to marry and have children who could someday carry on the line, as death was a very common thing. Ironically, in this made up story, she had the chance to save her family and people by merely agreeing to marry the attractive young prince she was once friends with, rather than the grizzled lord 20 years her senior she would most likely be forced to marry. If they had simply stuck with the fact that it was never her choice in the first place, then that puts the onus on her father for starting the conflict. Instead, in this version, she caused all the calamities to follow by being selfish. We have truly reached a dark place if women think that the man's role of fighting and dying is preferrable to the women's role of having children. If it is somehow heroic for women to choose to abandon the role society needs them to fulfill, then it is also herioc for men to abandon theirs. I mean, what is there for men to fight for?
@@shawnn7502 She didn't even get the chance to refuse before Helm and Freca took it outside, so no, her refusal was not the cause of the conflict. Helm one-punch killing Fréca was. Later, in Isengard, Héra is willing to accept Wulf's suit if he promises to call off his attack. Wulf is the one who throws a little tantrum over this because she isn't agreeing the way he wants her to agree and refuses. Héra cannot continue the line of Helm; she's a woman and this society is patriarchal (as people are so fond of pointing out). Her children would not be the continuation of Helm's line, but would begin a new line. Just like how Eomer, as the son of Theoden's sister, is the beginning of a new line of kings. I think you need to re-read the Edoras chapters of Lord of the Rings again to reacquaint yourself with Rohan's culture. It is honor-based and prizes war above all other pursuits (something that was being criticized by the original work, not praised for it). The only way to gain renown is great deeds and death in battle. It's not "fighting and dying is preferable", it's "fighting and dying is the only thing my culture values". Women in Rohan (and our own world) were so undervalued for their invisible labor and childbearing that their names were not recorded. Contrast that to the men who die in battle and have songs written about them that are sung centuries later, and the appeal presents itself. Gandalf puts it pretty well: "My friend, you had horses, and deed of arms, and the free fields; but she, being born in the body of a maid, had a spirit and courage at least the match of yours. Yet she was doomed to wait upon an old man, whom she loved as a father, and watch him falling into a mean dishonoured dotage; and her part seemed to her more ignoble than that of the staff he leaned on." There's also the excellent conversation Aragorn and Eowyn have about this exact thing: Aragorn says: "'A time may come soon ... when none will return. Then there will be need of valour without renown, for none shall remember the deeds that are done in the last defence of your house. Yet the deeds will not be less valiant, because they are unpraised.'" Éowyn answers: "'All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more."
@@KafuKemeh-c3d yep. Exactly! It was WULF who threw that option out when he refused to uphold the masculine side of the tradition because he deemed his personal vengeance more important and he wanted Héra to choose him out of love, not obligation.
@@jojobookish9529 Her children could become king the same as Eomer did. It doesn't matter that it wouldn't be Helm's line. Her children would still have the blood of Helm Hammerhand, which would mean something. So my point stands that her duty to have children is still more pronounced than a common woman's. The lines you quoted are specific to Eowyn's situation, which is one of total despair and wish for death before Faramir pulled her out of it. I think you need to reread it because I would just ask you how does it end? It ends with Eowyn turning to love, marriage and children. The woman's role is NOT undervalued. It just isn't what Eowyn wanted for herself because she was consumed by despair, similar to Denethor. The praise of death is impressed upon young men to get them to disregard their fear and fight. But most men would choose life if they could. Eowyn believes she is going to die anyway, so better to die with honour. She is an overly proud woman, but she never kills the Witchking if she wasn't. Regarding Hera's decision, I could say she would have denied Wulf earlier if given the chance, but that isn't how the movie presented it, true, so I am going to concede that criticism of the movie is wrong.
@@shawnn7502 True, if Frealaf died without an heir of his own, Héra's son ( if she had one) would be next in line. But she herself could not become Queen and then pass on the kingship. The greatest imperative to have children rested on Haleth, as the direct heir, then on Hama. Héra's sons would have been the third backup plan. There is a particular reading of Rohan's culture vs Faramir's Numenorean values that comes into play with Eowyn's story specifically, but illuminates something about Rohan's culture at large: they are an honor-based society and glorify warfare and death in battle-- all masculine pursuits women are not to be involved in unless under very specific circumstances. Rohan does not put cultural value on more feminine spheres the way Numenorean culture did(and Faramir revives), with its glorification of healing, life, and wisdom above warfare. Eowyn's despair comes in good part from the cage that is her culture's fixation on glory in battle and being disallowed from participating. She feels ignored among her people, less important and less visible than even the stick Theoden uses to walk. As she herself says, she is of the house of Eorl and can ride and wield blade, and as Gandalf says unlike her brother she is not permitted to use those skills. That path to glory, Rohan's only real path to recognition and being remembered as someone who mattered, is closed to her because she was born in the body of a maid. Any woman in Rohan who had similar aspirations or desires that didn't align with the role assigned by their birth would feel that cage in some way. Maybe that reading jumps out at me more because I am a woman, and have had that same experience of my not traditionally feminine capabilities being doubted, not traditionally feminine interests beIng actively discouraged or even punished, and my feminine labor taken for granted to the point that it's only noticed when I stop providing it.
I haven’t seen this movie yet, but about the Mary Sue thing; we don’t actually know about her lack of or limited training (I presume). In the movie trilogy Éowyn clearly wants to use a sword, can use a sword, and is fearless to a point. She’s not arrogant though. Eowyn says, “The women of this country learned long ago, those without swords can still die upon them. I fear neither death nor pain” So I think we should probably discount Hera’s Mary Sue status. I think we don’t like it much, her ferocity, because she has no impact on the literature lore as is implied in this anime movie. But again, I haven’t seen it yet
Mary Sue does not only equal = perfect without practise. It's the exaggerated combat abilities she shows off. She just became the greatest hero in the history of Middle-earth in the film. Not even Legolas takes down two oliphaunts in the films (which was an exaggeration in itself).
Did they seriously exclude the fact Freca insulted Helm multiple times over the years by only showing up for councils when he felt like it and Helm grew to mistrust him because of that? Changing this to the way it sound like you said they did would make Helm seem needlessly hostile.
I think the best way to answer why she was not present in the songs was to let her die in the duel with Wulf and not let her tell anyone that she would duel him. Her body would then have been lost in the chaos and no one would know what happened to her. This would cause for a great case of tragedy that the movie needed. Some of the characters in the beginning were charming, however all of them were ruined so that the view would be on her, taking the importance of their deaths away from the viewer. Another problem was the shrinking of the villian, once shown as a capable individual with strengths and with a decent motive, he was eventually turned into a useless coward, stripped out of any personality. What once was a person whose story could have been interesting, ended up becoming a mindless husk, almost a parody. A great villian always helps out the plot and the protagonist, even if the latter is badly written. The worst thing is that this plot was actually decent and to see it fail to show itself is the real tragedy.
I disagree. The Rohirrim glorify death in battle. If Héra had died in the duel with Wulf, they would have been more likely to write songs about her, or at least a stanza in the larger song. The fact that she survived and rode off to do the Rohan equivalent of taking herself to a nunnery makes her easier to be lost to their heroic histories.
@@jojobookish9529Agreed. They even make a point to show that her brother was writing songs about her, but unfortunately he died before anyone could hear and pass down his songs. There wasn't many people left in Rohan who could write songs about her (probably didn't know how to write or read), and the new king was not of the same direct bloodline, so it's doubtful any squires would care to write about Hera after she's been relegated to maybe a regent role. In their eyes Frealaf was the one who saved the people at Helms Deep anyways. The only people to know about Hera would likely be nobility, aka Eowyn.
@@jojobookish9529 That doesn't make sense as she does not take the memory of her from others by leaving. If she was the one who gave the killing blow to Wulf and it was witnessed by others then no matter what happens to her afterwards, people will remember that she killed Wulf. If anything, it just proves the point. If her disappearance was the reason that people would forget about her, wouldn't it be better to make her vanish alone right after the fight? That could explain why Frealáf got the praise of saving Rohan from Wulf and the Dunlanders. Now it just looks like he deliberately went with the stolen valor.
@@Linduine Not being able to find her body somehow, despite being very distinctively attired and in a conspicuous place after a clean rout, also wouldn't remove the memory of her killing Wulf from anyone who witnessed it. But it's incredibly easy for information to be lost over centuries if people are not careful to preserve it. Tales change and verses get rewritten. After everyone who was there has died, who would correct the skald who leaves her out of the story?
@wolfsbane9985 Háma, while he did make songs, is most likely not the only bard in the realm. Stories in the medieval times were mostly spread orally, so regardless of people being illiterate or not, many fragments of these events would have been remembered even among the common folk, especially an important one as slaying the leader of a major threat. Mind you, her brother missed the majority of noteworthy deeds of her. He missed how she outsmarted the Mûmakil, how she escaped captivity, was largely absent in the evacuation from Edoras, missed her fight with Lord Thorne and died before the duel. If anything, if he would be relying on witnesses telling him about these deeds, thus others would have heard them too. We do not know how many people still lived after the Long Winter so you cannot say that she isn't mentioned anywhere because of underpopulation. If that was the case, how come we know the fates of most (except Háma) characters in the story if there was no one to tell it? There were witnesses in most of her deeds, it takes one person to spread the stories to others. Her becoming a regent would make the deeds spread even faster as people tend to be honoured when ruled by a great individual and would brag about such a person. Unfortunately, the movie fails to explain why Freáláf got the honour while people clearly saw her slaying Wulf.
My two major complaints: 1. People let Helm fight alone at the gate. Absolutely no one is shown to have tried to help. In the books Helm died at a distance to the wall (on the Dike hundreds of meters way). People only found him in the morning. I don't think people saw him getting frozen there during the night. 2. Frealaf decided to return to Gondor, without being shown to have put any effort in saving Rohan.
Great review and analysis. The myth of the modern audience is primarily used for justification for writers and producers to self insert themselves these days.
Thank you for your detailed analysis. I watched the movie on Wednesday at the preview. I would rate it a 6.5 / 10. I liked the visuals concerning the Rohan landscape, Edoras, Helms Deep, Isengard and Dunharrow. I liked the music. I liked some of the references to the Jackson movies (in the end they were just to many for my taste, I would have preferred more original ideas). My main issue with the film is that I couldn't connect emotionally with the persons portrayed. I don't know if that is a personal thing because anime might just not be my thing. Perhaps I need real human faces showing real human emotions. But I just couldn't be anxious with them, couldn't laugh with them, couldn't be scared with them, couldn't cry with them. I love the Jackson trilogy, especially the first part. My God how I cried after Gandalfs fall in Moria. I had read the books, I knew that he wasn't dead. That just didn't matter. The scene was so packed with emotions! I screamed when the four hobbits were attacked by the black riders on their way to Bree. I laughed about the pranks of Merry and Pippin. I grieved with the elves for Gandalf. I was scared at Weathertop. I felt the thrill in the Chamber of Marzabul. Me knowing everything that would happen didn't make it one jot less exciting. I didn't feel any excitement watching the War of the Rohirrim. I just can't help it. I have no strong objections to the lore as with the unspeakably gruesome Rings of Power. I don't resent the WoR. It was a "quite nice" movie and a nice entertainment for an evening with friends. And I liked the closing credits. Very strong music and I was happy detecting Dominic Monaghans, Billy Boyds and Christopher Lees names there. Due to a technical problem we couldn't watch the original english version but had to watch the german one. So I couldn't recognize their voices. And I was so glad about the dedication to Bernhard Hill. IMHO the credits were the best part of the movie.
That movie seems incredibly superficial and dull. I don't no if this is more or less offensive than the brutal rewriting of lore by ROP. It's hell bent on tying its protagonist to some desperately recollected pieces of lore by showing as many member berries as possible. Hey look, we've got the eagles! What do they have to do with Rohan? Dunno! Look the Watcher, that's incredible! Why is it sitting in a pond in the middle of the steppe and why do the Rohirrim even know about it, when not even Gandalf knew it existed? Don't care, just cram it in. Oh this is LotR thing, so we gotta do something with rings right? Yeah let's just have Hera find some at some point. Ugh. I was quite optimistic for this one, since I liked the animation style shown in the trailer, but I guess it's just another lame cash grab.
My thought on the old lady keeper of the Hornburg was that it added to the superstition/mystery surrounding that place in particular, which helped flesh out why helm was thought to have turned into a wraith (cough... remembers shadow of war with anger). I am concerned about the Mary Sue/girl boss stuff, but it didn't feel as egregious this time around. I got pulled over by the cops for speeding after seeing the Battle of the Five armies in theatre because I was ranting to my brother about the love triangle, so at least that didn't happen this time lol. What was that narration at the beginning of the film about Hera's great deeds not being known in the old tales? Were they trying to explain in universe why she's not a main character in the appendices? I thought maybe they were going to kill her off along with the other side characters so that none of her deeds got recorded. If they had gone that route maybe the woman main lead would have made more sense. I did enjoy her character, especially after the letdown of... that elf lady character in RoP who should not bear the name of Galadriel. The wedding dress was kinda weird, but in context being done just to spite Wulf was kinda neat too. At least that little attached fabric on the arm got ripped so she didn't get all tangled up in the fabric lol. I don't know, at least Rohan is a good place to tell a strong female lead story, rather than shoehorning it in where it makes no sense, like the Hobbit. Being a fan of side quests, I guess I'm not bothered by bloat as long as it's done well and adds to the world building, and if it doesn't contradict any known lore. Yeah the Watcher felt a little video gamey, but it was cool. I don't know, I'll have to watch it several more times not in the theatre, but as someone who couldn't bear to suffer through the last couple episodes of RoP earlier this Fall, I am relieved. I would rank it above the second and third Hobbits, but probably not above the first. Of there was no love triangle in the Hobbit, I would probably rank it right under An Unexpected Journey.
I can see the appeal to see Helm, but honestly I think a 6 is too generous. Once there are self-inserts in a story, I don't think the whole thing could be better than a 3.
The main protagonist being a character that was so insignificant that Tolkien didn’t even give her a name, instead of her more interesting father HELM FREAKING HAMMER HAND was a brighter red flag than Hera’s hair.
Ultimately, what does this add to the LotR narrative/lore? Nothing. We could never hear about Hera's events and it would make no difference to the greater story. It's just a corporate money grab to keep their marketing rights alive, and they've admitted as much. Also, "Hera" is just about he laziest most out of place name they could've ever chosen. It's just plain bizarre and makes no sense whatsoever.
Shills are blaming anime for the movie's poor box office performance despite the fact it was only the medium used to tell the story. They clearly avoid mentioning how Philippa Boyens and her daughter wrote their self inserts and their own fantasy in the story plus the marketing that was so focused on Hera. If anything, those are the two main reasons, not the medium, for the poor box office performance and when will studios learn that shoving the girl boss trope leads to financial disaster. Anyways, I'll give it a try if there is a Japanese dub of this movie, at least there, the script is changed a bit as was presented in the Japanese dubbed trailer where Helm tells her she is a Princess of Rohan and the hope of its people, rather than she can rule the world in the English trailer. P.S. - Hera is really a very attractive redhead, something not seen in western media for a while.
Saw this last night and was the only one in the theater! (Which might have had more to do with the 10:00 pm showtime…) While there were definitely some flaws, like some very noticeable “girlboss” elements, and a few animation moments that just looked off, I still wound up liking it overall. Helm’s final stand was appropriately badass and admittedly, I teared up a bit during his last goodbye to Héra. And the rabid Mûmakil felt like utter nightmare fuel, which is a high point in my book! Overall, it’s not a perfect film, but that didn’t really make it unwatchable or unenjoyable. For me at least!
@@offtheshelfET Season 2 of Arcane was really bad. Dune is slow and plodding, I've never been into that franchise at all. YMMV. Never heard of One Piece. I have heard people like the Penguin, but I don't like comic book movies. The best thing I've seen in the past 5 years is Season 3 of Picard (which was basically season six of ST TNG)
Thanks for this insightful and even-handed review. I guess Warner Bros get to keep their piece of the IP alive, but if they are going to dish up fan fiction what's the point?
I personally don't mind her "I don't want to marry a man" bit, since it is pretty clear that since Helm's line does end, she didn't marry in the Tolkien-timeline either.
Great review. This film is definitely not “woke” like some claim it is, and it’s definitely not in comparison to Rings of Power which was. It’s not an incredible film, but it’s also not a bad one, it’s slow but it is an enjoyable watch. And Hera is a half decent female character that is plausible in Tolkien’s world, and she thankfully isn’t rude or obnoxious like Amazon’s “Galadriel” I think they could’ve improved Hera more depth, but she’s at least believable, kind to other characters, and not the typical cringe modern “bad-B feminist”
Hera is in my opinion comparable with book eowyn. I also had no problems with the charackter, but as mentioned in the Video, in the end she is in my opinion too perfect. Didn't like Olwyn though 😄
@@ckm45678I’m honestly not sure how you could watch this film and come away with the opinion that Hera is like Éowyn from the books… The two couldn’t possibly be further apart in character and motives. Unless your understanding of Éowyn is the superficial “I can fight too even though I’m a girl” understanding, which is also an improper understanding.
@@Benevolent_Fafnir it’s odd how many people don’t see how Eowyn wanting to go into battle to die is actually a bad thing. And that her heroic moment was protecting her father figure rather than seeking a glorious death in battle.
Just a quick thing I would add you said Saruman was added as "Memberberries" but he is explicitly mentioned to have attended Frealaf's coronation in the appendices. "It was at the crowning of Frealaf that Saruman appeared, bringing gifts, and speaking great praise of the valour of the Rohirrim. All thought him a welcome guest. Soon after he took up his abode in Isengard."
Hi there! I saw the film yesterday and it's great! It's a textbook example of how to add to existing lore without destroying it. For the record, I'm a huge fan of Tolkien and I dislike Rings of Power with a passion - RoP is disrespectful of the source material, misunderstands Galadriel badly, and destroys existing lore in the name of a ridiculous storyline. However, War of the Rohirrim has all the known lore in all the right order and is extremely respectful of it, and the film builds a great story around that scaffold of existing lore. Rings of Power should take notes. Yes, the story of Helm Hammerhand is told through the eyes of the daughter unnamed by Tolkien - note, unnamed by Tolkien, so it's fine for fanfic or anyone else to name her. And why not? Now we know all three of Helm's children. Bravo! And Hera is not a Mary Sue or a girl boss, and nor does she become Queen of Rohan, which would indeed have been destructive of existing lore. She follows in the tradition of the venerable shield maidens of Rohan, and presages the ultimate shield maiden to come, Eowyn, and behaves as we imagine a princess of Rohan might. She's (spoilers) even captured by men at one point and has to be rescued by a man! All charges of feminism at this point melt away. This is a straight adaptation, with a little spice in the form of a modicum of welcome poetic license, just like the original trilogy and the underrated Hobbit trilogy were. I fail to see why this film is being decried as woke, especially when RoP still exists. We need to pick our battles. This film isn't one of them.
This will be a long post so you can check out of it now if it too long for your tastes. I saw the movie this past Saturday and I mostly agree with your assessment of this movie. It is infinitely better than RoP and it does feel like Middle-Earth to me. It's not a bad movie and I did enjoy watching it but it's not a particularly good movie either. There were a number of relatively minor things that I don't feel fit that well with what Tolkien wrote but the major problem I have is making Héra, who was really a tertiary character in what Tolkien actually wrote, into the protagonist. This was a simply a big mistake because it's not the tale Tolkien wrote and we were told was being adapted. No, I don't agree with the idea that this change is OK because it is an adaptation; it's still based on what Tolkien created. Yes, I'm aware that Jackson's films made changes as well; I disliked quite a few of those changes. But what they did here was basically give Fréaláf's role to Héra. Once Helm died, the movie should have gone back and forth from the Hornburg to Dunharrow instead of giving one small scene to Fréaláf before he and an army of the Rohirrim showed up at the end. And yes, you can make that work. After all, in The Two Towers and The Return of the King, depending on exactly what point we are in of the story, we are following as many as 4 sets of characters in different locations. The final fight between Héra and Wulf is cringeworthy, particularly having her fight in a wedding gown, and so are the final scenes. The movie went downhill after Helm died. I actually got frustrated with what they did with Héra because I liked most of what they did with the character early on. She was smart, clever, and could think fast on her feet. She was interesting. But they blew it at the end. I'll watch the movie again but not in the theaters. In comparison, I watched all the Hobbit trilogy movies several times in the theaters and the LOTR trilogy movies far more times than I remember. In the showing I attended, the theater was only about a quarter full although some of that was undoubtedly due to some unpleasant weather we were having. Another thing I noted was that there was no applause when the credits rolled whereas I remember the LOTR movies getting applause at least most every time I went, sometimes standing ones. Initial box office returns are disappointing. I've heard the argument that Warner Brothers mainly made this movie to retain their rights to make more movies. But I can't help but wonder that if this movie ultimately ends up a money loser that WB might reconsider their plans. A Tolkien movie should be one that has people eagerly waiting for it to come out and that doesn't appear to be the case here, even if most people who did see it liked it. In the showing I attended, the theater was only about a quarter full although some of that was undoubtedly due to some unpleasant weather we were having. What follows, for anyone who cares to read all of this already lengthy post, is a list of issues I have with the movie. 1) While I was fine with the Mûmakil being present, "a watcher in the water" made no sense. It's pretty clear in LOTR that whatever that beast was, it was nothing anyone in the Fellowship had heard of, including Gandalf, Aragorn, and Boromir. But apparently they are common enough in Rohan that they are fairly unremarkable. 2) The appearance of a Great Eagle or Eagles marks an event of great significance. Yet here they initially show up to get fed like they are somewhat domesticated? The Great Eagles are servants of Manwë after all! 3) Who lets a couple of small children have actual swords and lets them go play at fighting one another completely unsupervised 4) The character of Olwyn doesn't really make sense. As you pointed out, she's a servant yet acts like one of the most powerful people in Rohan. She really grated on me. 5) Maybe I misunderstood what I thought was happening but there were 1-2 moments where events were happening in eastern Rohan but Dunlendings were showing up there instead of still being in the western border areas. Then suddenly the same characters are in Isengard. 6) Is it really feasible to build this giant siege tower in the middle of The Long Winter? 7) Why would Helm just suddenly vanish and cut off contact with his own people to start killing Dunlendings? He was still the king of Rohan. 8) How did Helm and Héra survive being out in this horrible, freezing weather while not wearing anything resembling appropriate winter clothing? They are not Valar. They are not Maiar. They are not even High Elves or Númenoreans. This pair should not be immune to surviving such conditions clad as they were. Yes, I know Helm was a legendary warrior king and he did eventually freeze to death but the way it was portrayed really messes with the ability to suspend disbelief. 9) Why do two orcs and a troll suddenly appear in the midst of this siege looking for rings? The whole scene comes off as completely contrived so they could give Dominic Monaghan and Billy Boyd a scene in the film even though it just didn't fit in the story. 10) Why did the Rohirrim wait to set the siege tower on fire? Seems to me they should have done that right away. 11) By the time we see that final fight between Héra and Wulf, Wulf has grown up to become a full grown man who has undoubtedly seen much combat. Héra may be unusually skilled with a sword but there's no reason to think she has been a part of Rohan's army and acquired the skills such a warrior would have. She never should have been able to win that final combat with Wulf as it is depicted in the movie, particularly as depicted with her wearing a wedding dress. A pure facepalm moment for me. It was roughly the equivalent of if Jackson and Co. had changed the Return of the King to have Éowyn leading the charge of the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pellenor Fields. 12) We're cheated out of seeing Fréaláf's forces defeat Wulf's army and Fréaláf slay Wulf, which is what Tolkien wrote. 13) In such a deeply patriarchal society as that of Rohan, the notion that Héra should have become a ruling queen is completely at variance with the society Tolkien created. 14) Héra is depicted as very devoted to the people of Rohan yet at the end she decides to leave. Why? Surely she could have played a big role aiding Fréaláf in ruling the kingdom as a counselor. 15) Based on what was in the movie, only Héra know about this 'collecting rings' business. So, how did Gandalf find out about this to send word that he'd like to meet with her? Seeing as Gandalf was so much the nomad, it seems more likely he would have come south to meet with her upon finding out. Bottom line for me is I had high hopes for this movie when it was first announced and I saw many of the names that would be involved but when the trailer came out, it became apparent that we were going to get a movie depicting a tertiary character as the primary one. Sure, Héra deserved an greatly expanded role but not to the point where she took over the movie. The movie I watched was somewhat better than what I expected but so much less than what my original hopes were. And it's really frustrating to see that they had a real chance to make a movie that followed the story as Tolkien laid it out and they didn't do so. I wanted something good and what I got is something pretty average.
I agree with all your point! Gandalf made no sense and by the end of the day Héra became a greater warrior than anyone during the War of the Rings. She escapes the watcher with ease, kills two oliphaunts, a snow troll, a dozen Dunlending warriors, escapes Isengard like it was nothing and manages to defeat Wulf the greatest chieftain in the history of Dunland. I'm not buying it. It's too unrealistic for my taste. They were already exaggerating in the films with Legolas (He was the worst part of the Hobbit films). In regards to patriarchy we also got this from Brian Cox: “It works on so many levels. It's massively allegorical for our present day,” Cox says. “The whole thing that’s happening to women in your country, where women’s rights are being set by men, not by women, is horrendous. There’s that moment at the end of The War of the Rohirrim where Helm closes the door. It’s like he closes the door on patriarchy and says it’s up to you girls to sort the world out. I love that, I think it’s so relevant today.” Tolkien would hate that so so much. I really think it's the main problem with stories today. People are self-absorbed and can only tell their own stories full of allegories and modern day phenomenons. It makes one sick thinking about it.
I have to admit I'm not too fond of the visuals. I don't mind anime but I just feel this particular style doesn't work with Tolkien's world. Feels like Princess Mononoke or Brave rather than Tolkien.
I initially made a long comment about the style of the show and the use of 3D animation, then realised this was, in fact, designed by a Japanese man and intentionally made to look like Miyazaki's work. I am not a fan of the 3D element, as it is just so awkward. It's a pity that they chose to make it about an unknown character that will never show up again and whose legacy is "erased". Far better had it been about Helm and the tragedy of his rule and the Second Line of Kings through Frealaf, but I think we all know what this genuinely is: a way to retain IP.
I must say I mostly checked out from the movie after the Watcher in the water vs Oliphaunt scene. "Oh, so key jangling the movie it is then" was my thought.
Not an expert, but in the movie, Arwen did say she was faster than Aragorn when they needed to rush Frodo for the cure. Even if it is wrong, it is still consistent with Peter Jackson's version.
I enjoyed it, despite the more annoying scenes. For me it was the overemphasis on the whole shieldmaiden thing, Olwyn, and some of the dramatic scenes going a little too long at times. Like when Hera blows the mahout's horn and the POV just circles around her 8 or 9 times. That honestly made me dizzy to watch.
From what I’ve seen this movie is another egregious attempt at rewriting Tolkien’s lore, by inventing a character thats sole purpose is to undermine all the men, girl boss and Mary Sue her way through every problem and situation while stealing valour from actual canonical characters. This is not about an accurate, faithful portrayal of the war of the rohirrim while innocently fleshing out Helms daughter, no it’s about putting men down as incompetent while propping her up as a significant player that has to fix all the men’s shortcomings, while being a capable warrior, rider and strategist. Even if Tolkien took the time to write this character out she would be nothing like this. This is a clear case of Schrödinger’s feminism: The patriarchy is suppressing me because I’m expected to conform to traditional gender roles, but I’m a strong independent girl boss that doesn’t need no man to depend on. This isn’t a faithful adaptation it’s clearly another highjacked setting used to push a message while being thinly veiled as something we can all enjoy, however no true fan can enjoy any level of subversion.
So.. if Hera married a man who loved her, despite having an eye nearly gouged by her, nothing would happen. Her brothers would not die. A lot of people, and oliphants, would not die.
@ckm45678 Yes, that's the original story, Helm doesn't like Dunlendings and by this hubris causes the death of his sons and the near destruction of his people, then paying with his own life to save what could be still saved. With his becoming a frozen statue as a symbol of his moral stiffness. All they needed to do was adding that Héra actually wanted to marry Wulf, but no one listened her ! And she loses all her loved ones, Wulf too, and a lot of people die by just a cultural flaw of the Rohirrim. It would be 100% lore, and tragedy, and feminism. No one could complain.
@@eliogabalopuzzetti496 See problem with that is that Rohan and Dunland have had a long history of hostility, Helm being distrustful of Dunlanders makes sense. Also Helm didn't distrust Frecca because he had Dunlander blood, he primarily distrusted him because Frecca only showed up for councils when he felt like it. Insulting Helm and showing he only cared for his own interests instead of the kingdom. The proposal was nothing more then Frecca trying to pave the way to controlling Rohan and that was blatant to Helm. Hence why that refusal makes sense.
Héra was willing to accept Wulf's suit if he promised her people's safety. Despite her telling him before she didn't want to marry anyone at all and it wasn't about him personally, at Isengard she was willing to do it anyway. He chose to be spiteful and reject the option he presented because she wasn't falling into his arms with gratitude and was instead doing something very reasonable for a medieval woman- using herself as a bargaining piece for her kingdom. It's not her fault Wulf had a temper tantrum.
Dude she was beaten up like 3-4 times during the movie. She's definitely not a Mary Sue. The movie has many ways where it could be improved, and I'm not a fan that they took an unnamed character and made her the focal point, but it does not detract from the lore in a meaningful way. Hera just shows the hallmarks of a good leader, because she learned from her father, who is just as arrogant as she is. All she does is is emplore her father and brothers to listen, but she didn't know what would happen for certain. She isn't going to help Gandalf, she's going to seek him out. Lack of consequences?! She lost her father, her brothers, and her childhood friend to pride. It's like we watched different movies. Hera reminds me Jael the wife of Heber in the Bible.
Honestly, final score of 6.5/10. Half added in because I like amine style, plus do I didn't experiencing choppy senses. Film play pretty smoothly at my local theater.
To be fair in regard to the Mary Sue characteristics; beeing admired by others and overtly beautiful are standard elements in almost every important female character in myths and legends around the world, so I personally don´t think this are important elements of a Mary Sue. However it is different if it is not general admiration like "Oh she `s so beautifull! I wish I would look like her! / I wish she would be mine!", but validation so everyone feels fortunate to meet her "Oh it´s you! The gods favor us!" or is seeking their advice and opinion respectivley immediatley agrees with everything she says. (pls note the line between a tragic wise person that is alawys right but nobody listens to (like Cassandra), and a Mary Sue that is alawys right but nobody listens to is very fine, and must be judged according to the parameters of the individual case. But based on the information I have, Hera leans in this aspect more to the Mary Sue than the tragic)
@@ErikKemeeyKUVBBS I fail to see how this is of any importance for my general musing about two of the Mary Sue markers mentioned in this video. And my remark about Hera is clearly marked as not a definitive claim but a personal assessment, and even then only in regards to a specific aspect of the Mary Sue question not at her character at a whole. My assessment now is based on a couple of reviews (from ppl who ain´t Tolkien lore experts, who didn´t really participate with videos in earlier Tolkien media discussions) and their summarisations of the film. But to answer clearly: no, I haven´t watched and I won´t watch.
@@anonymussicarius8899 Imagine if they had the male protagonist in the movie you sure wouldn't complain, just say you hate women in fantasy action movies and using the tolkien rebuttal card to make your claim And speaking of Hera, Didn’t she have to be saved several times? Pretty sure she had to be saved by Helm, her retainer, and her cousin. Usually a Mary Sue wouldn’t have to have help from anyone. You are just a hypocrite thats why
I enjoyed this film. I wouldn't say there was any "girlboss" stuff. In fact, Héra was rescued multiple times by men in the film. Héra has been fighting all her life and her dad is literally one of the most badass men in the history of Arda (especially for a third age character), and her brothers are arguably more capable warriors who both met untimely deaths, so she survived them because she wasn't taking all of the same risks as them. I didn't feel like she was "always right", and Gandalf wanting to meet with her at the end would be because of the experience she reported specifically about the orcs looking for rings, NOT because she was the best or anything. She puts in work like any character and never really has any arrogance. She doesn't seem like a Mary Sue at all. I felt like her character mirrored Éowyn's a bit in the same way that Tolkien had Helm, like Théoden, outlive his sons (one of which dies in the same place Théodred dies), and some similar dynamics to Théoden's relationship to Éowyn ensue, and it works IMHO. While Tolkien didn't exactly tell us anything about Helm's daughter, I did feel like Héra was a believable version of what she could have been like.
@ how is the ending girlbossy? She passes on rulership and hands the throne to her [male] cousin. Tolkien wrote that Helm, like Théoden, outlives his sons but doesn’t indicate where nor when his daughter dies, but we know that since Rohan has not been ruled by a queen that she didn’t take the throne. We know her first cousin, Fréaláf, was the next king (and first cousins never marry in Tolkien’s legendarium), and we know Wulf had attempted a marriage proposal to Helm’s daughter that resulted in the death of his father and being named an enemy of Rohan by the king and goes on to be the villain of the story until his death.
I haven't expected anything but had fun watching it in the end. Especially the first half of the movie was good in my opinion. I liked the art style as well, even though many people don't seem to like it. Sadly the movie had a bad final and focused way to much on Hera in the last third of the movie. Would have been nice to have a few more scenes with Frealef.
Originally the film was meant to be about Millennials, but then at the last moment it went zoomer like everything else. No wonder it sucked. If it remained millennial it would have rocked
I whend to see it yesterday and there were only 2 people in the room. I did enjoy the movie quite alot, im not an anime fan but i did like the artstyle alot and the music was fantastic. Sadly this movie will probably be a massive flop at the box office.
I don't know why I allowed myself to have hope for this film, maybe because I love the Rohirim and Helm Hammerhand's story. Leave it to modern holywood to find an unnamed female character and then "protagonize" her, creating a mary sue around which the entire plot hinges, and who is unescissarily given all the heroic moments. I'm fine with the female character having more of a role, or even having a trait like being a very fast horseback rider, but having her fight and kill everyone is beyond dumb 🤦♂️ I wish they could have done this story justice.
She was in maybe 4 fights, and in 3 of them she had help, and in one she got lucky. That is not even close to fighting and killing everyone. Even in her moment of begging to ride out with her father, she emphasized a support role as a messenger. She didn't say "but I can fight!". She didn't rant about men keeping her down, or have a scene where she one-upped all the boys. She spends most of the film doing proper Anglo Saxon princess things: managing supplies during a siege, supporting her brothers, weeping at her father's bedside, and commanding the final defense (yes, that is also a historically correct role for her). Very little of what she does is actually epic, yet everyone accepts Helm waking up from a weeks long (at least) coma, running around the mountains during a hellish blizzard for days on end, and still killing hundreds of dudes with nothing but his fists. Just because he's a man. If you can accept Helm doing all that, you should be able to accept Héra doing way less.
This is Peak wokeness bait and Switch. Man are all Bad and evil hera is ofc Mary Sue and the Hero that could so everything from birth. Nah iam sticking with the books and the original movies.
@@RemusKingOfRome No, just no. Ai would’ve made this film look a thousand times worse and more soulless. The use of Ai should be seen like the atom bomb for the art community, under no circumstances should it be used as a stand in for actual human artistry.
@@CounciloftheRings Interesting. Though, if by from Dol Amroth, they mean a Dunadan, he should still be fair-shinned. Seem's odd that the father would take up residence in Rohan, rather than the wife going to Dol Amroth.
@@Tar-Elenion tbf, “fair skinned” can mean a great many things. Frealaf still looks to be European in this, I’ll be it a little tan compared to the others. Not a great decision in my opinion since it makes him look like one of the Dunlendings which can get confusing, but I still think he looks mostly alright.
@@CounciloftheRingslol did the Philippa crew make Dol Amroth's populace swarthy then? One of the few places in Gondor to still have a large Dunedain population?
wth u talking about, she was always a intersectional feminist trying to inject ideology into LoTR. Only difference now is she is unchecked and has her daughter Phoebe Gittins alongside in this $hitshow
Despite seeing the film for myself, it wasn't that bad, but I won't deny that it could've been better. Even though the film will likely underperform in the box office, i will say that adapting Tolkiens' works into animation isn't a bad concept and has plenty of potential to work in a film or tv show given time and patience. A few things that need to be learned from the War of the Rohirrim film are to leave out modern-day concepts, stop pushing feminist ideology, don't hesitate to show dark themes, and finally dont deviate from the lore.
@steriskyline4470 Not at all. I think the film was wonderful! The pacing was excellent, all the major story moments we know are there. The only things changed are the brothers deaths were given more significance and Hera was given a name and more to do. Considering the events all kicked off due to a sham marriage proposal to Hera it makes sense to give her more to do and by having her as our eyes it allowed us to go beyond the eyes of Helm freezing on the steps. The movie also had many great callbacks to moments set up in the first half of the movie I think people right now are being rather harsh on the film but given time people will look on it more favorably Saying things like I have low standards is rather subjective. If you didn't like the film that's fine but that doesn't mean other won't as well Still a 9/10 for me and I can't wait to see it again!
‘Ends like a super girl boss film’. She is a girl. And she is a boss. The daughter of helm hammerhand didn’t do anything too far-fetched. Her first kill, was assisted by horse and accident. It was very real. At the end she fights, after a long psychologically battering winter, a weaker version of Wulf
I dont think that Hera is a mary sue at all, here's why: First of all, lets not forget that, besides the writers being westerns (all americans?), the director (who has a big control of the movie) was japanese and this has some typical anime tropes. Hera have some kills, yes, but none of the other characters became total dumbasses, this only already makes her different from Guyladriel from rings of power doing akward stuff like teaching numenorians how to fight. Look at the fight with the snow troll (wich was killed by Helm when he smashed his face with that rock, Hera just took it down), that fight was a typical anime fight (and, to be honest, exactly what I was expecting from this film), Helm took most of the fight but Hera took part in it too, because they were working as a team (something that you hardly see a mary sue doing). This "teamwork" is a typical japanese trope (due to their collectiveness culture, and thats why so many anime have the "power of friendship" thing), even in the end, when she realises all is lost, what she does is calling Fréalaf for help, not saving the day all by herself. First I thought it was weird that when Fréaláf was about to rescue Héra, Olwyn say that she has a plan and herself rescue her and put him to kill the guards, instead of letting him do the rescue and herself killing the guards, but I guess it happens because she is older, and thats reason enough for him to follow her (again, something really common in japanese stories, and we can debate that, yes). And lets not forget that Hera has yes flaws, like being too mercyful to Wulf when he does not deserves it. Speaking in Wulf, I disagree too that he is just a incel, because his main goal all the time was to crush Helm and all his legacy, took Hera was part of it since Helm refused to give her to him, and, after his death, she becames the only remains of his bloodline in earth, so it makes sense that he wants to erase it. And about her being a nameless character in the legend that becames a protagonist, I just think that the studio found in that a gap where they cant take creative liberties, a bigger focus could be on Helm? Maybe, but all of his story was there and yet we have a lot to be filled, so I dont think that is a great problem. Concerning Gondor, I think that they chose to not put it in to not take the focus out of Rohan. Maybe Fréaláf could lead both Rohan's and Gondor's army at the end? Yes, and I think that would be nice, but then would not have the "this folk saved himself" thing (I personally even think that has again some japanese thinking behind it, but I'll keep it to myself because maybe this is too much). About the animation, the 3d parts were really bad, and its strange because normally films have a bigger production time then series (wich you usually can see bad cg anime), but maybe they enhance it when releasing the blu ray version (japanese studios do this but I only heard of it to anime series, never from a movie for theaters and never from a western studio). This film will surely bomb on box office (like every movie without a gargantuan marketing-disney-like machine do nowadays), but I still think that we will have more lotr anime in the future, newer generations prefer a lot anime over western movies, and I watched this movie with a friend that never had contact with Tolkien before and she liked it, so lets just dream with a Ufotable's Tolkien anime. Edit: Uzumaki's director just recently said that the anime was bad because western producers rush things a lot, if Kenji says the same about the war of the rohirrim, I will be not surprised.
Thanks for watching! I apologize for the two times the screen becomes green. Blame it on UA-cam. For some reason there was a mistake during the upload (which I wasn't informed about). This doesn't happen in the original file, so UA-cam is to blame. Oddly enough this does NOT happen if you watch the video on phone. I do hope they auto-fix it as it's on their end and it might occur again if I simply reupload. Sorry for the inconvenience!
Cheers 🧙♂
Between this and RoP, they will conclude "People are sick of Tolkien"
Honestly I'd be okay with no more mediocre garbage set in middle earth getting pushed into the public... And we just have whatever we have already... The books are the only real way to ingest middle earth anyways
What is this continuous narrative of Rohan and Gondor being too proud to ask for aid? Does the Oath of Cirion and Eorl mean nothing in the cinematic space?
I wish I knew… I don’t get the hate they have for Gondor
@@deanzaZZR they have a tapestry depicting Eorl in the Two Towers I believe, but I think that’s the only reference to him in film so far and it’s a blink or you’ll miss it thing.
@@deanzaZZR I don't think it's hate for Gondor in this movie, but more Helms own pride and trust in his own strength. Calling for Gondor was in the end the first proposal from Frealef.
Gondor was occupied with the Haradrim and the Corsairs at that time.
Of they didn't read the cannon, why should they.
I will say that I appreciate that Hera was not written as an overbearing girl boss (except for the end).
That said the finale was utterly sad with its implication. Essentially stating that a person, particularly women, are only free when apart from marriage. This is wild and quite antithetical to Toilken’s ideas. Not that people must be married, but that marriage can lead to fulfillment for both man and woman.
I will also note that Olwyn was more frustrating for me than Hera.
Just like men choose not to marry
And how was she mary sue?
She is a girl boss. But has a pleasant character, unlike most modern girl-bosses
Could someone define what "girl boss" even is? Does it just mean "female protagonist who does anything other than get married" at this point? Because that's what it feels like.
She was definitely a girl boss.
@@jojobookish9529the first characteristic of a girl boss is the motivation behind her creation. Girls bosses usually appear in franchises that are expected to have a male protagonist, to replace them. (Checks ou)
Second, established legacy lore is changed to accommodate her. (Checks out)
Third, she is shown to be in general equally or more competent than men despite that not being consistent with her context (checks out)
Fourth, she rejects her traditional role in society, as if that was something that holds her back. (Checks out too)
Lastly, but not least, it is stated, or at least implied, that she embraces a lifestyle that goes contrary to the morality of the autor (Hera states she doesn't want to marry no man, and she departs with another woman by the end, implying she's lesbian).
"Girls boss", "Mary Sue" those are terms usually used to describe these types of characters. Sometimes people are hyperbolic when using such terms, but in general it's not hard to understand why they would do so.
The main characteristic of a "Girls boss" is that you can easily argue she only exists for ideological reasons, since she will always be grossly out of place and people will go out of their way to insert her in a story that would otherwise have a male protagonist.
So Helm is still the main draw, despite being sidelined by "Hera." I wish the whole film was about him and his tragedy, rather than subtle feminism injected here. Hera is basically the Mary Sue, who can never offer wrong advice and who is constantly being praised as the best (despite no evidence of that), and her guard, an old shieldmaiden, is the girl-boss, who can hold off a whole room of basically 6-foot Viking warriors. I have to take a cold pass at this, as I would not be able to look past those two things.
@@pauldang7014 the film should have been about Helm, this is such a disappointment.
Subtle?
My main takeaway from this is that it diminishes Eowyn.
If this happened only a few generations ago, how come fighting women aren't the norm when they are clearly this superior just by nature?
Theoden would be like "Eowyn, round up all your fellow women and ride with us. We will need the REAL warriors for this one!"
@@pewthepuny2849 Because: Fighting women are to rare.
Hera is a noble girl, who probably had the time and some training for the fighting (probably taking it in the free time).
Most girls wouldnt had that chance or interesst. In addition was it stated, that the shield maids only showed up, after most men died in a conflict. And doesnt existed after that anymore.
Hera had a lot of trouble again most men. Except the main villian. Only the maid was a bit to much in that area (her comes the popint, that only the girls used shields in the movie).
In additon was the story telled by Eowyn. Its possible, that she simply maked some changed, to inspiring girls to become shield maids.
The movie has some weak points (like everything). But in overall is the movie entertaining and ok.
@@Followme556 Well, more than RoP at least, as it's with a much less obnoxious woman, though still without much personality.
Helm Hammerhand's movie, without him. Got it
He was a side chara. But, had enough iompactfull scene to make it up.
How would you even wanted to make this movie, with him as MC, when even the original lore stated, that he died in it and that the king after him taked the rest of the conflict?
When a mc is dying in his own movie, is it mostly at the end of it, with a few scene left after that. In this case, would whe had a whole battle left, without the mc.
In addition was the original conflict even, because Wulf wanted to marry his daughter and he accidantly killed his father. How would than look the in-between time of the movie, between the conflicts? As a old man and king wouldnt he be able to move much around. The movie stated, that there was some month, before the conflict started.
With him as MC,. would there pracitcly only room for politic part befor the battle started. But, from what i had readed, had Condor in original not much to do, except, of showing up at the end and help the people.
Helm was probably the more interessting guy. But, he doesnt looked to be fit of beeing the MC of this story. Beeing a side chara was truly the better place for him.
@@hasseo195Personally I would have liked to see the story Tolkien made... Crazy to hear I know...
@ Did Tolkien even maked a story?
As much as i has readed, was the whole part only a summary, when in the extra of the third movie the lineage of the Rohan king was explained (that he is from the second lineage of kings, while Helm died by Helms Kamm, while one son died in battle and the other vanished in winter, when he searched for food, and, that the next king leaded the fight again Wulf, killed him and Gondor showed up at the end for help).
As much as I understand it, had he never created a full working story. The only difference is, that the stuff that Hera did, was supposed to be done be the other guy. And, that the other guy taked the role of Condor.
Except of this small change, does I see no big difference in the potentiell of the storytelling. Both chara would had simply switched there roles. But, both had needed to be extended to work for a movie. And, why not take the daughter as the mc, when both versions was allready about her and Helm (who had to die in all version)? Maybe, they could had included the next king a bit more. But aside of that was most of the stuff ok (but yeah, the story could had worked even with a male).
Thank you!
@@squaeman_2644 what story Tolkien made? It takes 2-3 pages in the appendices and there's barely anything there.
What about Cirion and Eorl? What, the story they don't have rights to because it's in Unfinished Tales?
Olwyn is the most out of place for me, even the Shieldmaiden thing. Why make them House/Order with a crest? instead of cultural concepts?
I get annoyed when she acts like a leader, whether it's the evacuation of Edoras or the command of Fort Hornburg. In every situation, there should be Rohan officers with higher ranks and authority than her, but she's the only one taking command.
Exactly! A servant no less that commands Héra, the one she serves 😅 That’s one quick ticket to lose your head in the past, haha
The MCU esqe “I’m forming a team” ending with Gandalf sounds awful. The movie still looks awesome in many areas, but man, Hera is such a dumb addition. What were they thinking?
They were thinking 'fuck tolkien.'
@ I think the biggest problem with this film is that there were two versions of it. Originally it was written by the guys behind the Dark Crystal Netflix series, but somewhere along the line they were let go and Boyens’ daughter finished the script. Due to Hera and Olwyn’s similarities to the Boyens mother and daughter I wouldn’t be surprised if they were an invention of the rewritten script.
I didn't get the impression that she was teaming up with Gandalf, MCU style. He just wanted to ask her some questions, and there her contribution to history ends.
Beyond that, Gandalf is known, canonically, for establishing connections with oddball people from various societies -- the Tooks, Bilbo, Faramir. All of them are a little weird for their people; the Tooks and Bilbo with their adventuring, Faramir with his Numenorean sensibilities. Héra fits right in.
@Arcessitor No, they weren't. The movie has its problems, but by in large, it's about as faithful to Tolkien canon as the Peter Jackson trilogy is. It does nothing to betray the lore in any egregious way. Helm has a daughter, she's unnamed, all they did was give her a story and a name. She takes nothing away from established characters, save for it being her who kills Wulf. You can dislike the movie, but they played faithful to the lore, even down to having Saruman take residence of Isengard AFTER the War. You wanna talk about desecration of Tolkien lore, check out Rings of Power or the Shadow of Mordor games.
Where are all the film directors wanting to do an original and faithful take on Tolkien's works? Feels like everyone is interested in money rather than passion. It is a shame Tolkien's works are not getting enough love in adaptations these days.
Yeah I’d love to get a chance to work on a Tolkien film!
It’s pretty sad. I would have thought the Peter Jackson films would have inspired many people to want to become directors like the original Star Wars films did. Maybe they’re just not getting the jobs to work on Lord of the Rings adaptations for whatever reason?
So... the movie is 20% Helm Hammerhand lore accurate. 40% member berries from the Jackson films. And 40% girl boss.
Exactly
Also it's more feminist garbage
Very fair review and excellent points were made! Me and my wife took our nieces and nephews to see it and we all really enjoyed it. The kids are Ghibli-heads, so it was nice to use this as a springboard to further introduce them to more Lord of the Rings content. During dinner after the movie, my nieces actually asked for the books as a possible Christmas gift (already ordered them 😀) so I see the movie as a win.
This is certainly a win! The books are IT
The art style doesn’t fit Tolkien that’s 1. 2 forced political agendas not a fan. 3. Just doesn’t respect professor Tolkiens ideals and lore.
The character designs are much better than the ugly Bashki ones, not to mention the horrible (to the point of being unwatchable) ones from Rankin-Bass.
Héra's character design is definitely waifu level.
@@tominiowa2513The Hobbit actually had character and a sort of old British illustration to them, this is just shallow generic anime...
I completely agree with your assessment of this film ... and the point well stated about Anglo-Saxon society with women's roles and Middle Earth as Tolkien stressed in his Legendarium. They were a predominately patriarchal society. That being said, Hollywood not depicting this "Tolkien" story is too female dominated (girl-boss, Mary Sue) and trying to diminish the male characters, is what ruined the story for me. And I am a woman making this comment.
Have u even watched the movie?
I really don't buy this argument that because the society is patriarchal, this story is impossible or too implausible and shouldn't have been done. By that logic, Eowyn's story is too implausible and should not have been done. By that logic, any woman in our own real world who has lived against patriarchal norms is too implausible and her story shouldn't be acknowledged or imagined in any way.
Rohirric culture is still patriarchal, potentially more so if you account for cultural shift (such things do not move in a straight line towards greater equality), by the War of the Ring. Gandalf and Eomer talk about it openly. Eowyn talks about it openly. Her whole rationale for riding to war is to have a chance of dying in battle and therefore gaining honor and recognition among her people because that is what they value. The patriarchal, honor based, war-glorifying norms of her culture cause her in-text, canonical distress that motivates her actions.
But her society was patriarchal...so none of that should exist. Right?
Our ideas of medieval society, especially in regards to the position and roles of women, are more reflective of Victorian norms than the actual medieval era. Women were not thought of as the inherently delicate "angel of the house", incapable of anything mentally or physically strenuous, capable only of sitting demurely at home in the eras Rohan's culture is drawn from. This is well acknowledged by medievalists. Women taking up the last defense is not some modern feminist projection. It's known from Anglo-Saxon and Nordic medieval and earlier societies, as well as in Japanese history.
But at the end of the day, this is FANTASY. If you can accept sentient giant eagles and snow trolls and magic rings, but draw the line at a woman doing anything other than sitting silently next to the men and getting married because "it's not historically accurate," you're creating your own problems.
Now I know how Helm died and why Hera' name was banned in history.
My sister went to watch it, she said that it was a decent movie, but that the cinema was empty there too.
War of the Rohirrim turned out to be a fanfiction like the other one we know well!
Sad they never delved deep into Helm's heir, Haleth, and his second son, Háma. And future king, Fréaláf, was relegated to a guest star status.
Helm's legacy as the Hammerhand was overshadowed by this unnamed daughter (I will not utter her name because linguistically, it doesn't fit the Rohirric naming system).
Though I have to say, this is a better fanfiction than Amazon's take. While it did take liberties, it's still grounded in the lore (if you remove the prominence of the unnamed daughter).
Regardless:
Mine heart cries, lie broken in grief, Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens.
Of the mortals to dare trample on Tolkien's lore, thou are the last people I will ever have conjured.
Mine tears flowing ever eternally for thine creation of a Mary Sue,
Disregarded the legend that is Helm Hammerhand,
Haleth and Háma's importance, robbed of agency,
Fréaláf pushed aside, his glory taken.
When dost the storm end,
The age of Mary Sue's and heart-wrenching murder of lore dost fall?
As the daughter of the king, it would be even more important for her to marry and have children who could someday carry on the line, as death was a very common thing. Ironically, in this made up story, she had the chance to save her family and people by merely agreeing to marry the attractive young prince she was once friends with, rather than the grizzled lord 20 years her senior she would most likely be forced to marry. If they had simply stuck with the fact that it was never her choice in the first place, then that puts the onus on her father for starting the conflict. Instead, in this version, she caused all the calamities to follow by being selfish.
We have truly reached a dark place if women think that the man's role of fighting and dying is preferrable to the women's role of having children. If it is somehow heroic for women to choose to abandon the role society needs them to fulfill, then it is also herioc for men to abandon theirs. I mean, what is there for men to fight for?
@@shawnn7502 She didn't even get the chance to refuse before Helm and Freca took it outside, so no, her refusal was not the cause of the conflict. Helm one-punch killing Fréca was.
Later, in Isengard, Héra is willing to accept Wulf's suit if he promises to call off his attack. Wulf is the one who throws a little tantrum over this because she isn't agreeing the way he wants her to agree and refuses.
Héra cannot continue the line of Helm; she's a woman and this society is patriarchal (as people are so fond of pointing out). Her children would not be the continuation of Helm's line, but would begin a new line. Just like how Eomer, as the son of Theoden's sister, is the beginning of a new line of kings.
I think you need to re-read the Edoras chapters of Lord of the Rings again to reacquaint yourself with Rohan's culture. It is honor-based and prizes war above all other pursuits (something that was being criticized by the original work, not praised for it). The only way to gain renown is great deeds and death in battle. It's not "fighting and dying is preferable", it's "fighting and dying is the only thing my culture values". Women in Rohan (and our own world) were so undervalued for their invisible labor and childbearing that their names were not recorded. Contrast that to the men who die in battle and have songs written about them that are sung centuries later, and the appeal presents itself. Gandalf puts it pretty well: "My friend, you had horses, and deed of arms, and the free fields; but she, being born in the body of a maid, had a spirit and courage at least the match of yours. Yet she was doomed to wait upon an old man, whom she loved as a father, and watch him falling into a mean dishonoured dotage; and her part seemed to her more ignoble than that of the staff he leaned on."
There's also the excellent conversation Aragorn and Eowyn have about this exact thing:
Aragorn says: "'A time may come soon ... when none will return. Then there will be need of valour without renown, for none shall remember the deeds that are done in the last defence of your house. Yet the deeds will not be less valiant, because they are unpraised.'"
Éowyn answers: "'All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more."
Looks like someone didn't watch the movie, she was willing to marry him if it meant saving her family when she was kidnapped
@@KafuKemeh-c3d yep. Exactly! It was WULF who threw that option out when he refused to uphold the masculine side of the tradition because he deemed his personal vengeance more important and he wanted Héra to choose him out of love, not obligation.
@@jojobookish9529 Her children could become king the same as Eomer did. It doesn't matter that it wouldn't be Helm's line. Her children would still have the blood of Helm Hammerhand, which would mean something. So my point stands that her duty to have children is still more pronounced than a common woman's.
The lines you quoted are specific to Eowyn's situation, which is one of total despair and wish for death before Faramir pulled her out of it. I think you need to reread it because I would just ask you how does it end? It ends with Eowyn turning to love, marriage and children. The woman's role is NOT undervalued. It just isn't what Eowyn wanted for herself because she was consumed by despair, similar to Denethor. The praise of death is impressed upon young men to get them to disregard their fear and fight. But most men would choose life if they could. Eowyn believes she is going to die anyway, so better to die with honour. She is an overly proud woman, but she never kills the Witchking if she wasn't.
Regarding Hera's decision, I could say she would have denied Wulf earlier if given the chance, but that isn't how the movie presented it, true, so I am going to concede that criticism of the movie is wrong.
@@shawnn7502 True, if Frealaf died without an heir of his own, Héra's son ( if she had one) would be next in line. But she herself could not become Queen and then pass on the kingship. The greatest imperative to have children rested on Haleth, as the direct heir, then on Hama. Héra's sons would have been the third backup plan.
There is a particular reading of Rohan's culture vs Faramir's Numenorean values that comes into play with Eowyn's story specifically, but illuminates something about Rohan's culture at large: they are an honor-based society and glorify warfare and death in battle-- all masculine pursuits women are not to be involved in unless under very specific circumstances. Rohan does not put cultural value on more feminine spheres the way Numenorean culture did(and Faramir revives), with its glorification of healing, life, and wisdom above warfare. Eowyn's despair comes in good part from the cage that is her culture's fixation on glory in battle and being disallowed from participating. She feels ignored among her people, less important and less visible than even the stick Theoden uses to walk. As she herself says, she is of the house of Eorl and can ride and wield blade, and as Gandalf says unlike her brother she is not permitted to use those skills. That path to glory, Rohan's only real path to recognition and being remembered as someone who mattered, is closed to her because she was born in the body of a maid. Any woman in Rohan who had similar aspirations or desires that didn't align with the role assigned by their birth would feel that cage in some way. Maybe that reading jumps out at me more because I am a woman, and have had that same experience of my not traditionally feminine capabilities being doubted, not traditionally feminine interests beIng actively discouraged or even punished, and my feminine labor taken for granted to the point that it's only noticed when I stop providing it.
I haven’t seen this movie yet, but about the Mary Sue thing; we don’t actually know about her lack of or limited training (I presume). In the movie trilogy Éowyn clearly wants to use a sword, can use a sword, and is fearless to a point. She’s not arrogant though. Eowyn says, “The women of this country learned long ago, those without swords can still die upon them. I fear neither death nor pain”
So I think we should probably discount Hera’s Mary Sue status.
I think we don’t like it much, her ferocity, because she has no impact on the literature lore as is implied in this anime movie.
But again, I haven’t seen it yet
Mary Sue does not only equal = perfect without practise. It's the exaggerated combat abilities she shows off. She just became the greatest hero in the history of Middle-earth in the film. Not even Legolas takes down two oliphaunts in the films (which was an exaggeration in itself).
Did they seriously exclude the fact Freca insulted Helm multiple times over the years by only showing up for councils when he felt like it and Helm grew to mistrust him because of that?
Changing this to the way it sound like you said they did would make Helm seem needlessly hostile.
That was mentioned in the movie, although not very clearly.
No, that is explicitly said in the movie.
I think the best way to answer why she was not present in the songs was to let her die in the duel with Wulf and not let her tell anyone that she would duel him. Her body would then have been lost in the chaos and no one would know what happened to her. This would cause for a great case of tragedy that the movie needed. Some of the characters in the beginning were charming, however all of them were ruined so that the view would be on her, taking the importance of their deaths away from the viewer.
Another problem was the shrinking of the villian, once shown as a capable individual with strengths and with a decent motive, he was eventually turned into a useless coward, stripped out of any personality. What once was a person whose story could have been interesting, ended up becoming a mindless husk, almost a parody. A great villian always helps out the plot and the protagonist, even if the latter is badly written.
The worst thing is that this plot was actually decent and to see it fail to show itself is the real tragedy.
I disagree. The Rohirrim glorify death in battle. If Héra had died in the duel with Wulf, they would have been more likely to write songs about her, or at least a stanza in the larger song. The fact that she survived and rode off to do the Rohan equivalent of taking herself to a nunnery makes her easier to be lost to their heroic histories.
@@jojobookish9529Agreed. They even make a point to show that her brother was writing songs about her, but unfortunately he died before anyone could hear and pass down his songs. There wasn't many people left in Rohan who could write songs about her (probably didn't know how to write or read), and the new king was not of the same direct bloodline, so it's doubtful any squires would care to write about Hera after she's been relegated to maybe a regent role. In their eyes Frealaf was the one who saved the people at Helms Deep anyways. The only people to know about Hera would likely be nobility, aka Eowyn.
@@jojobookish9529 That doesn't make sense as she does not take the memory of her from others by leaving. If she was the one who gave the killing blow to Wulf and it was witnessed by others then no matter what happens to her afterwards, people will remember that she killed Wulf.
If anything, it just proves the point. If her disappearance was the reason that people would forget about her, wouldn't it be better to make her vanish alone right after the fight? That could explain why Frealáf got the praise of saving Rohan from Wulf and the Dunlanders. Now it just looks like he deliberately went with the stolen valor.
@@Linduine Not being able to find her body somehow, despite being very distinctively attired and in a conspicuous place after a clean rout, also wouldn't remove the memory of her killing Wulf from anyone who witnessed it.
But it's incredibly easy for information to be lost over centuries if people are not careful to preserve it. Tales change and verses get rewritten. After everyone who was there has died, who would correct the skald who leaves her out of the story?
@wolfsbane9985 Háma, while he did make songs, is most likely not the only bard in the realm. Stories in the medieval times were mostly spread orally, so regardless of people being illiterate or not, many fragments of these events would have been remembered even among the common folk, especially an important one as slaying the leader of a major threat.
Mind you, her brother missed the majority of noteworthy deeds of her. He missed how she outsmarted the Mûmakil, how she escaped captivity, was largely absent in the evacuation from Edoras, missed her fight with Lord Thorne and died before the duel. If anything, if he would be relying on witnesses telling him about these deeds, thus others would have heard them too.
We do not know how many people still lived after the Long Winter so you cannot say that she isn't mentioned anywhere because of underpopulation. If that was the case, how come we know the fates of most (except Háma) characters in the story if there was no one to tell it? There were witnesses in most of her deeds, it takes one person to spread the stories to others.
Her becoming a regent would make the deeds spread even faster as people tend to be honoured when ruled by a great individual and would brag about such a person. Unfortunately, the movie fails to explain why Freáláf got the honour while people clearly saw her slaying Wulf.
My two major complaints:
1. People let Helm fight alone at the gate. Absolutely no one is shown to have tried to help.
In the books Helm died at a distance to the wall (on the Dike hundreds of meters way). People only found him in the morning. I don't think people saw him getting frozen there during the night.
2. Frealaf decided to return to Gondor, without being shown to have put any effort in saving Rohan.
I'm just gonna rewatch Mulan. I don't need worldbuilding butchered.
@@Arcessitor Mulan is peak though
@@offtheshelfET Yeah I wasn't joking, I'll gladly rewatch Mulan to get the same story told better.
@@Arcessitor based
It's about the writing. This writing sounds D U M B.
Great review and analysis. The myth of the modern audience is primarily used for justification for writers and producers to self insert themselves these days.
Thank you for your detailed analysis. I watched the movie on Wednesday at the preview. I would rate it a 6.5 / 10. I liked the visuals concerning the Rohan landscape, Edoras, Helms Deep, Isengard and Dunharrow. I liked the music. I liked some of the references to the Jackson movies (in the end they were just to many for my taste, I would have preferred more original ideas).
My main issue with the film is that I couldn't connect emotionally with the persons portrayed. I don't know if that is a personal thing because anime might just not be my thing. Perhaps I need real human faces showing real human emotions. But I just couldn't be anxious with them, couldn't laugh with them, couldn't be scared with them, couldn't cry with them. I love the Jackson trilogy, especially the first part. My God how I cried after Gandalfs fall in Moria. I had read the books, I knew that he wasn't dead. That just didn't matter. The scene was so packed with emotions! I screamed when the four hobbits were attacked by the black riders on their way to Bree. I laughed about the pranks of Merry and Pippin. I grieved with the elves for Gandalf. I was scared at Weathertop. I felt the thrill in the Chamber of Marzabul. Me knowing everything that would happen didn't make it one jot less exciting.
I didn't feel any excitement watching the War of the Rohirrim. I just can't help it.
I have no strong objections to the lore as with the unspeakably gruesome Rings of Power. I don't resent the WoR. It was a "quite nice" movie and a nice entertainment for an evening with friends. And I liked the closing credits. Very strong music and I was happy detecting Dominic Monaghans, Billy Boyds and Christopher Lees names there. Due to a technical problem we couldn't watch the original english version but had to watch the german one. So I couldn't recognize their voices. And I was so glad about the dedication to Bernhard Hill. IMHO the credits were the best part of the movie.
This was an amazing movie, i enjoyed it immensely, the artwork was next level especially the scene with the siege tower
That movie seems incredibly superficial and dull. I don't no if this is more or less offensive than the brutal rewriting of lore by ROP. It's hell bent on tying its protagonist to some desperately recollected pieces of lore by showing as many member berries as possible. Hey look, we've got the eagles! What do they have to do with Rohan? Dunno! Look the Watcher, that's incredible! Why is it sitting in a pond in the middle of the steppe and why do the Rohirrim even know about it, when not even Gandalf knew it existed? Don't care, just cram it in. Oh this is LotR thing, so we gotta do something with rings right? Yeah let's just have Hera find some at some point. Ugh. I was quite optimistic for this one, since I liked the animation style shown in the trailer, but I guess it's just another lame cash grab.
My thought on the old lady keeper of the Hornburg was that it added to the superstition/mystery surrounding that place in particular, which helped flesh out why helm was thought to have turned into a wraith (cough... remembers shadow of war with anger).
I am concerned about the Mary Sue/girl boss stuff, but it didn't feel as egregious this time around. I got pulled over by the cops for speeding after seeing the Battle of the Five armies in theatre because I was ranting to my brother about the love triangle, so at least that didn't happen this time lol. What was that narration at the beginning of the film about Hera's great deeds not being known in the old tales? Were they trying to explain in universe why she's not a main character in the appendices? I thought maybe they were going to kill her off along with the other side characters so that none of her deeds got recorded. If they had gone that route maybe the woman main lead would have made more sense. I did enjoy her character, especially after the letdown of... that elf lady character in RoP who should not bear the name of Galadriel. The wedding dress was kinda weird, but in context being done just to spite Wulf was kinda neat too. At least that little attached fabric on the arm got ripped so she didn't get all tangled up in the fabric lol. I don't know, at least Rohan is a good place to tell a strong female lead story, rather than shoehorning it in where it makes no sense, like the Hobbit.
Being a fan of side quests, I guess I'm not bothered by bloat as long as it's done well and adds to the world building, and if it doesn't contradict any known lore. Yeah the Watcher felt a little video gamey, but it was cool.
I don't know, I'll have to watch it several more times not in the theatre, but as someone who couldn't bear to suffer through the last couple episodes of RoP earlier this Fall, I am relieved. I would rank it above the second and third Hobbits, but probably not above the first. Of there was no love triangle in the Hobbit, I would probably rank it right under An Unexpected Journey.
I have not seen the movie, and I don´t think I will, but I think this is a very fair description.
I am the first person here. Feels Powerful. Feels Right.
Huzzah!! ⚔️ I hope you’re doing well! 🙏
@@CounciloftheRings Quite Well. Thank you.
Also, I did not go to see this movie, and don't plan to. It looks incredibly cringe, and just another example of modern desecration of Tolkien's work.
I can see the appeal to see Helm, but honestly I think a 6 is too generous. Once there are self-inserts in a story, I don't think the whole thing could be better than a 3.
Technically, her weakness is the fact she doesnt ever want to marry anyone, but Im sure the writers never considered it a weakness
Her weakness is being kidnapped
The main protagonist being a character that was so insignificant that Tolkien didn’t even give her a name, instead of her more interesting father HELM FREAKING HAMMER HAND was a brighter red flag than Hera’s hair.
Ultimately, what does this add to the LotR narrative/lore? Nothing. We could never hear about Hera's events and it would make no difference to the greater story. It's just a corporate money grab to keep their marketing rights alive, and they've admitted as much. Also, "Hera" is just about he laziest most out of place name they could've ever chosen. It's just plain bizarre and makes no sense whatsoever.
Let's face it, prime reason for making this was to keep Warner Bros. rights to the IP and it shows, this would be right at home on Disney.
Shills are blaming anime for the movie's poor box office performance despite the fact it was only the medium used to tell the story. They clearly avoid mentioning how Philippa Boyens and her daughter wrote their self inserts and their own fantasy in the story plus the marketing that was so focused on Hera.
If anything, those are the two main reasons, not the medium, for the poor box office performance and when will studios learn that shoving the girl boss trope leads to financial disaster. Anyways, I'll give it a try if there is a Japanese dub of this movie, at least there, the script is changed a bit as was presented in the Japanese dubbed trailer where Helm tells her she is a Princess of Rohan and the hope of its people, rather than she can rule the world in the English trailer.
P.S. - Hera is really a very attractive redhead, something not seen in western media for a while.
Western world is still overall meh on anime and its tropes.
Saw this last night and was the only one in the theater! (Which might have had more to do with the 10:00 pm showtime…) While there were definitely some flaws, like some very noticeable “girlboss” elements, and a few animation moments that just looked off, I still wound up liking it overall. Helm’s final stand was appropriately badass and admittedly, I teared up a bit during his last goodbye to Héra. And the rabid Mûmakil felt like utter nightmare fuel, which is a high point in my book! Overall, it’s not a perfect film, but that didn’t really make it unwatchable or unenjoyable. For me at least!
Great review, have a good day 👍
Likewise!
The average stool sample is more entertaining than anything the "entertainment industry" has put out in the last decade. (Including this trash)
@@nomorerainbows Oppenheimer, The Batman, The Penguin, One Piece, Arcane, Andor, Dune.
There are plenty of examples, you just have to look for them.
@@offtheshelfET Season 2 of Arcane was really bad. Dune is slow and plodding, I've never been into that franchise at all. YMMV.
Never heard of One Piece. I have heard people like the Penguin, but I don't like comic book movies.
The best thing I've seen in the past 5 years is Season 3 of Picard (which was basically season six of ST TNG)
@nomorerainbows you think Dune is bad and you liked Picard…you aren’t worth my time then are you?
@@offtheshelfET You engaged me, not the other way around. This is my comment you're responding to. To quote the Critical drinker, "Go away now."
@nomorerainbows the fact that you are a critical drinker fan is the least surprising thing I’ve heard all day
The horse was a thoroughbred stallion so it would have been racist abd sexist if he had been credited
No interest in seeing this and the ROP.
I'll stick to the existing 6 features and the books, thank you.
Ty for the review, I will pass on this because I have sworn off all girl boss films.
It’s not buddy she barely has 2 fights compared to all the men
Thanks for this insightful and even-handed review. I guess Warner Bros get to keep their piece of the IP alive, but if they are going to dish up fan fiction what's the point?
I personally don't mind her "I don't want to marry a man" bit, since it is pretty clear that since Helm's line does end, she didn't marry in the Tolkien-timeline either.
Great review. This film is definitely not “woke” like some claim it is, and it’s definitely not in comparison to Rings of Power which was. It’s not an incredible film, but it’s also not a bad one, it’s slow but it is an enjoyable watch.
And Hera is a half decent female character that is plausible in Tolkien’s world, and she thankfully isn’t rude or obnoxious like Amazon’s “Galadriel”
I think they could’ve improved Hera more depth, but she’s at least believable, kind to other characters, and not the typical cringe modern “bad-B feminist”
Hera is in my opinion comparable with book eowyn. I also had no problems with the charackter, but as mentioned in the Video, in the end she is in my opinion too perfect. Didn't like Olwyn though 😄
@@ckm45678I’m honestly not sure how you could watch this film and come away with the opinion that Hera is like Éowyn from the books… The two couldn’t possibly be further apart in character and motives.
Unless your understanding of Éowyn is the superficial “I can fight too even though I’m a girl” understanding, which is also an improper understanding.
@@Benevolent_Fafnir it’s odd how many people don’t see how Eowyn wanting to go into battle to die is actually a bad thing. And that her heroic moment was protecting her father figure rather than seeking a glorious death in battle.
@ this exactly!
So cynical. I like it. And this is far better than sitting through that crap myself. lol
It was an okay movie. Nothing amazing but not terrible either.
My thoughts too
Just a quick thing I would add you said Saruman was added as "Memberberries" but he is explicitly mentioned to have attended Frealaf's coronation in the appendices.
"It was at the crowning of Frealaf that Saruman appeared,
bringing gifts, and speaking great praise of the valour of the
Rohirrim. All thought him a welcome guest. Soon after he took
up his abode in Isengard."
I watched it last night. It we all thought it needed more frames. It was visually very jarring.
Thanks for the in-depth review, saves me from going to see it.
Glad I could help!
Tolkien would disappointed in your hypocrisy
Hi there! I saw the film yesterday and it's great! It's a textbook example of how to add to existing lore without destroying it. For the record, I'm a huge fan of Tolkien and I dislike Rings of Power with a passion - RoP is disrespectful of the source material, misunderstands Galadriel badly, and destroys existing lore in the name of a ridiculous storyline. However, War of the Rohirrim has all the known lore in all the right order and is extremely respectful of it, and the film builds a great story around that scaffold of existing lore. Rings of Power should take notes. Yes, the story of Helm Hammerhand is told through the eyes of the daughter unnamed by Tolkien - note, unnamed by Tolkien, so it's fine for fanfic or anyone else to name her. And why not? Now we know all three of Helm's children. Bravo! And Hera is not a Mary Sue or a girl boss, and nor does she become Queen of Rohan, which would indeed have been destructive of existing lore. She follows in the tradition of the venerable shield maidens of Rohan, and presages the ultimate shield maiden to come, Eowyn, and behaves as we imagine a princess of Rohan might. She's (spoilers) even captured by men at one point and has to be rescued by a man! All charges of feminism at this point melt away. This is a straight adaptation, with a little spice in the form of a modicum of welcome poetic license, just like the original trilogy and the underrated Hobbit trilogy were. I fail to see why this film is being decried as woke, especially when RoP still exists. We need to pick our battles. This film isn't one of them.
This will be a long post so you can check out of it now if it too long for your tastes.
I saw the movie this past Saturday and I mostly agree with your assessment of this movie. It is infinitely better than RoP and it does feel like Middle-Earth to me. It's not a bad movie and I did enjoy watching it but it's not a particularly good movie either.
There were a number of relatively minor things that I don't feel fit that well with what Tolkien wrote but the major problem I have is making Héra, who was really a tertiary character in what Tolkien actually wrote, into the protagonist. This was a simply a big mistake because it's not the tale Tolkien wrote and we were told was being adapted. No, I don't agree with the idea that this change is OK because it is an adaptation; it's still based on what Tolkien created. Yes, I'm aware that Jackson's films made changes as well; I disliked quite a few of those changes. But what they did here was basically give Fréaláf's role to Héra. Once Helm died, the movie should have gone back and forth from the Hornburg to Dunharrow instead of giving one small scene to Fréaláf before he and an army of the Rohirrim showed up at the end. And yes, you can make that work. After all, in The Two Towers and The Return of the King, depending on exactly what point we are in of the story, we are following as many as 4 sets of characters in different locations. The final fight between Héra and Wulf is cringeworthy, particularly having her fight in a wedding gown, and so are the final scenes. The movie went downhill after Helm died.
I actually got frustrated with what they did with Héra because I liked most of what they did with the character early on. She was smart, clever, and could think fast on her feet. She was interesting. But they blew it at the end. I'll watch the movie again but not in the theaters. In comparison, I watched all the Hobbit trilogy movies several times in the theaters and the LOTR trilogy movies far more times than I remember. In the showing I attended, the theater was only about a quarter full although some of that was undoubtedly due to some unpleasant weather we were having. Another thing I noted was that there was no applause when the credits rolled whereas I remember the LOTR movies getting applause at least most every time I went, sometimes standing ones.
Initial box office returns are disappointing. I've heard the argument that Warner Brothers mainly made this movie to retain their rights to make more movies. But I can't help but wonder that if this movie ultimately ends up a money loser that WB might reconsider their plans. A Tolkien movie should be one that has people eagerly waiting for it to come out and that doesn't appear to be the case here, even if most people who did see it liked it. In the showing I attended, the theater was only about a quarter full although some of that was undoubtedly due to some unpleasant weather we were having.
What follows, for anyone who cares to read all of this already lengthy post, is a list of issues I have with the movie.
1) While I was fine with the Mûmakil being present, "a watcher in the water" made no sense. It's pretty clear in LOTR that whatever that beast was, it was nothing anyone in the Fellowship had heard of, including Gandalf, Aragorn, and Boromir. But apparently they are common enough in Rohan that they are fairly unremarkable.
2) The appearance of a Great Eagle or Eagles marks an event of great significance. Yet here they initially show up to get fed like they are somewhat domesticated? The Great Eagles are servants of Manwë after all!
3) Who lets a couple of small children have actual swords and lets them go play at fighting one another completely unsupervised
4) The character of Olwyn doesn't really make sense. As you pointed out, she's a servant yet acts like one of the most powerful people in Rohan. She really grated on me.
5) Maybe I misunderstood what I thought was happening but there were 1-2 moments where events were happening in eastern Rohan but Dunlendings were showing up there instead of still being in the western border areas. Then suddenly the same characters are in Isengard.
6) Is it really feasible to build this giant siege tower in the middle of The Long Winter?
7) Why would Helm just suddenly vanish and cut off contact with his own people to start killing Dunlendings? He was still the king of Rohan.
8) How did Helm and Héra survive being out in this horrible, freezing weather while not wearing anything resembling appropriate winter clothing? They are not Valar. They are not Maiar. They are not even High Elves or Númenoreans. This pair should not be immune to surviving such conditions clad as they were. Yes, I know Helm was a legendary warrior king and he did eventually freeze to death but the way it was portrayed really messes with the ability to suspend disbelief.
9) Why do two orcs and a troll suddenly appear in the midst of this siege looking for rings? The whole scene comes off as completely contrived so they could give Dominic Monaghan and Billy Boyd a scene in the film even though it just didn't fit in the story.
10) Why did the Rohirrim wait to set the siege tower on fire? Seems to me they should have done that right away.
11) By the time we see that final fight between Héra and Wulf, Wulf has grown up to become a full grown man who has undoubtedly seen much combat. Héra may be unusually skilled with a sword but there's no reason to think she has been a part of Rohan's army and acquired the skills such a warrior would have. She never should have been able to win that final combat with Wulf as it is depicted in the movie, particularly as depicted with her wearing a wedding dress. A pure facepalm moment for me. It was roughly the equivalent of if Jackson and Co. had changed the Return of the King to have Éowyn leading the charge of the Rohirrim at the Battle of the Pellenor Fields.
12) We're cheated out of seeing Fréaláf's forces defeat Wulf's army and Fréaláf slay Wulf, which is what Tolkien wrote.
13) In such a deeply patriarchal society as that of Rohan, the notion that Héra should have become a ruling queen is completely at variance with the society Tolkien created.
14) Héra is depicted as very devoted to the people of Rohan yet at the end she decides to leave. Why? Surely she could have played a big role aiding Fréaláf in ruling the kingdom as a counselor.
15) Based on what was in the movie, only Héra know about this 'collecting rings' business. So, how did Gandalf find out about this to send word that he'd like to meet with her? Seeing as Gandalf was so much the nomad, it seems more likely he would have come south to meet with her upon finding out.
Bottom line for me is I had high hopes for this movie when it was first announced and I saw many of the names that would be involved but when the trailer came out, it became apparent that we were going to get a movie depicting a tertiary character as the primary one. Sure, Héra deserved an greatly expanded role but not to the point where she took over the movie. The movie I watched was somewhat better than what I expected but so much less than what my original hopes were. And it's really frustrating to see that they had a real chance to make a movie that followed the story as Tolkien laid it out and they didn't do so. I wanted something good and what I got is something pretty average.
I agree with all your point!
Gandalf made no sense and by the end of the day Héra became a greater warrior than anyone during the War of the Rings. She escapes the watcher with ease, kills two oliphaunts, a snow troll, a dozen Dunlending warriors, escapes Isengard like it was nothing and manages to defeat Wulf the greatest chieftain in the history of Dunland. I'm not buying it. It's too unrealistic for my taste. They were already exaggerating in the films with Legolas (He was the worst part of the Hobbit films).
In regards to patriarchy we also got this from Brian Cox: “It works on so many levels. It's massively allegorical for our present day,” Cox says. “The whole thing that’s happening to women in your country, where women’s rights are being set by men, not by women, is horrendous. There’s that moment at the end of The War of the Rohirrim where Helm closes the door. It’s like he closes the door on patriarchy and says it’s up to you girls to sort the world out. I love that, I think it’s so relevant today.”
Tolkien would hate that so so much. I really think it's the main problem with stories today. People are self-absorbed and can only tell their own stories full of allegories and modern day phenomenons. It makes one sick thinking about it.
I have to admit I'm not too fond of the visuals. I don't mind anime but I just feel this particular style doesn't work with Tolkien's world. Feels like Princess Mononoke or Brave rather than Tolkien.
I agree! It should have been live action. Or at least a different animation style.
If Rohirrim women can fight anything like Hera can, why do they not make up the majority of Rohan's fighting force? Is it the patriarchy?
Them hips don’t lie tho… That said, I’m severely disappointed with this film.
Nice video and very informative ! , I was unsure about watching it initially,
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
So it sounds to me that this film could be improved a lot by some editing by fans. Rescued, even. Which is frankly better than I feared. :)
Indeed
I initially made a long comment about the style of the show and the use of 3D animation, then realised this was, in fact, designed by a Japanese man and intentionally made to look like Miyazaki's work. I am not a fan of the 3D element, as it is just so awkward.
It's a pity that they chose to make it about an unknown character that will never show up again and whose legacy is "erased". Far better had it been about Helm and the tragedy of his rule and the Second Line of Kings through Frealaf, but I think we all know what this genuinely is: a way to retain IP.
I think the animation style does't fit with Tolkien.
@@omisan771 I personally love the animation style. Japanese Tolkien artwork is very rare but I wish there was more of it.
It doesn’t this Asian style animation does not fit Tolkiens European fantasy world one bit it’s disgraceful
@@offtheshelfETI don’t keep eastern style out of my European heritage
@@LostHorizons0 Disgraceful to Tolkien would be Rankin-Bass character designs.
Bakshis Hobbit had an old British illustration style to it that totally fit, this is just shallow generic anime...
I must say I mostly checked out from the movie after the Watcher in the water vs Oliphaunt scene.
"Oh, so key jangling the movie it is then" was my thought.
Not an expert, but in the movie, Arwen did say she was faster than Aragorn when they needed to rush Frodo for the cure. Even if it is wrong, it is still consistent with Peter Jackson's version.
Well it’s her horse - though in the real lore it’s the horse of Glorfindel and Arwen is at Rivendell
A fair assessment.
I enjoyed it, despite the more annoying scenes. For me it was the overemphasis on the whole shieldmaiden thing, Olwyn, and some of the dramatic scenes going a little too long at times. Like when Hera blows the mahout's horn and the POV just circles around her 8 or 9 times. That honestly made me dizzy to watch.
Totally understandable! I think that shot dragged on for too long as well
I was Just thinking that, what qualities does a raider has to improve to be the "fastest"? Maybe if she is just lighter than men? That could work...
It's a girl boss film
From what I’ve seen this movie is another egregious attempt at rewriting Tolkien’s lore, by inventing a character thats sole purpose is to undermine all the men, girl boss and Mary Sue her way through every problem and situation while stealing valour from actual canonical characters. This is not about an accurate, faithful portrayal of the war of the rohirrim while innocently fleshing out Helms daughter, no it’s about putting men down as incompetent while propping her up as a significant player that has to fix all the men’s shortcomings, while being a capable warrior, rider and strategist. Even if Tolkien took the time to write this character out she would be nothing like this. This is a clear case of Schrödinger’s feminism: The patriarchy is suppressing me because I’m expected to conform to traditional gender roles, but I’m a strong independent girl boss that doesn’t need no man to depend on. This isn’t a faithful adaptation it’s clearly another highjacked setting used to push a message while being thinly veiled as something we can all enjoy, however no true fan can enjoy any level of subversion.
So.. if Hera married a man who loved her, despite having an eye nearly gouged by her, nothing would happen. Her brothers would not die. A lot of people, and oliphants, would not die.
Yes, but Helm said that he won't accept Wulf to marry his daughter because he doesn't trust Frecca.
No. A man who kills everyone because he was rejected is not husband material. He is a pathetic incel.
@ckm45678 Yes, that's the original story, Helm doesn't like Dunlendings and by this hubris causes the death of his sons and the near destruction of his people, then paying with his own life to save what could be still saved.
With his becoming a frozen statue as a symbol of his moral stiffness.
All they needed to do was adding that Héra actually wanted to marry Wulf, but no one listened her !
And she loses all her loved ones, Wulf too, and a lot of people die by just a cultural flaw of the Rohirrim.
It would be 100% lore, and tragedy, and feminism. No one could complain.
@@eliogabalopuzzetti496 See problem with that is that Rohan and Dunland have had a long history of hostility, Helm being distrustful of Dunlanders makes sense.
Also Helm didn't distrust Frecca because he had Dunlander blood, he primarily distrusted him because Frecca only showed up for councils when he felt like it.
Insulting Helm and showing he only cared for his own interests instead of the kingdom.
The proposal was nothing more then Frecca trying to pave the way to controlling Rohan and that was blatant to Helm.
Hence why that refusal makes sense.
Héra was willing to accept Wulf's suit if he promised her people's safety. Despite her telling him before she didn't want to marry anyone at all and it wasn't about him personally, at Isengard she was willing to do it anyway. He chose to be spiteful and reject the option he presented because she wasn't falling into his arms with gratitude and was instead doing something very reasonable for a medieval woman- using herself as a bargaining piece for her kingdom. It's not her fault Wulf had a temper tantrum.
Dude she was beaten up like 3-4 times during the movie. She's definitely not a Mary Sue. The movie has many ways where it could be improved, and I'm not a fan that they took an unnamed character and made her the focal point, but it does not detract from the lore in a meaningful way. Hera just shows the hallmarks of a good leader, because she learned from her father, who is just as arrogant as she is. All she does is is emplore her father and brothers to listen, but she didn't know what would happen for certain. She isn't going to help Gandalf, she's going to seek him out. Lack of consequences?! She lost her father, her brothers, and her childhood friend to pride. It's like we watched different movies. Hera reminds me Jael the wife of Heber in the Bible.
Honestly, final score of 6.5/10. Half added in because I like amine style, plus do I didn't experiencing choppy senses. Film play pretty smoothly at my local theater.
To be fair in regard to the Mary Sue characteristics; beeing admired by others and overtly beautiful are standard elements in almost every important female character in myths and legends around the world, so I personally don´t think this are important elements of a Mary Sue. However it is different if it is not general admiration like "Oh she `s so beautifull! I wish I would look like her! / I wish she would be mine!", but validation so everyone feels fortunate to meet her "Oh it´s you! The gods favor us!" or is seeking their advice and opinion respectivley immediatley agrees with everything she says. (pls note the line between a tragic wise person that is alawys right but nobody listens to (like Cassandra), and a Mary Sue that is alawys right but nobody listens to is very fine, and must be judged according to the parameters of the individual case. But based on the information I have, Hera leans in this aspect more to the Mary Sue than the tragic)
Have u watched the movie for yourself?
@@ErikKemeeyKUVBBS I fail to see how this is of any importance for my general musing about two of the Mary Sue markers mentioned in this video.
And my remark about Hera is clearly marked as not a definitive claim but a personal assessment, and even then only in regards to a specific aspect of the Mary Sue question not at her character at a whole. My assessment now is based on a couple of reviews (from ppl who ain´t Tolkien lore experts, who didn´t really participate with videos in earlier Tolkien media discussions) and their summarisations of the film.
But to answer clearly: no, I haven´t watched and I won´t watch.
@@anonymussicarius8899
Imagine if they had the male protagonist in the movie you sure wouldn't complain, just say you hate women in fantasy action movies and using the tolkien rebuttal card to make your claim
And speaking of Hera,
Didn’t she have to be saved several times? Pretty sure she had to be saved by Helm, her retainer, and her cousin. Usually a Mary Sue wouldn’t have to have help from anyone.
You are just a hypocrite thats why
"lord thorn is a traitor" what did u think hes called thorn
I enjoyed this film. I wouldn't say there was any "girlboss" stuff. In fact, Héra was rescued multiple times by men in the film. Héra has been fighting all her life and her dad is literally one of the most badass men in the history of Arda (especially for a third age character), and her brothers are arguably more capable warriors who both met untimely deaths, so she survived them because she wasn't taking all of the same risks as them. I didn't feel like she was "always right", and Gandalf wanting to meet with her at the end would be because of the experience she reported specifically about the orcs looking for rings, NOT because she was the best or anything. She puts in work like any character and never really has any arrogance. She doesn't seem like a Mary Sue at all. I felt like her character mirrored Éowyn's a bit in the same way that Tolkien had Helm, like Théoden, outlive his sons (one of which dies in the same place Théodred dies), and some similar dynamics to Théoden's relationship to Éowyn ensue, and it works IMHO. While Tolkien didn't exactly tell us anything about Helm's daughter, I did feel like Héra was a believable version of what she could have been like.
It was very girlboss, especially the ending. Hera wasn't obnoxious or anything but the movie has feminist undertones.
@ how is the ending girlbossy? She passes on rulership and hands the throne to her [male] cousin. Tolkien wrote that Helm, like Théoden, outlives his sons but doesn’t indicate where nor when his daughter dies, but we know that since Rohan has not been ruled by a queen that she didn’t take the throne. We know her first cousin, Fréaláf, was the next king (and first cousins never marry in Tolkien’s legendarium), and we know Wulf had attempted a marriage proposal to Helm’s daughter that resulted in the death of his father and being named an enemy of Rohan by the king and goes on to be the villain of the story until his death.
So sad we care about Helm not some unnamed daughter y can't they just make stuff we want to see
Kills mumakil: THAT STILL COUNTS AS ONE.
I haven't expected anything but had fun watching it in the end. Especially the first half of the movie was good in my opinion. I liked the art style as well, even though many people don't seem to like it. Sadly the movie had a bad final and focused way to much on Hera in the last third of the movie. Would have been nice to have a few more scenes with Frealef.
Originally the film was meant to be about Millennials, but then at the last moment it went zoomer like everything else.
No wonder it sucked. If it remained millennial it would have rocked
I whend to see it yesterday and there were only 2 people in the room. I did enjoy the movie quite alot, im not an anime fan but i did like the artstyle alot and the music was fantastic. Sadly this movie will probably be a massive flop at the box office.
5:15 Was the Matrix interfettering? :^)
I think so! It’s a mistake by UA-cam during upload, but it’s not there when you watch it on phone 👀
I don't know why I allowed myself to have hope for this film, maybe because I love the Rohirim and Helm Hammerhand's story. Leave it to modern holywood to find an unnamed female character and then "protagonize" her, creating a mary sue around which the entire plot hinges, and who is unescissarily given all the heroic moments. I'm fine with the female character having more of a role, or even having a trait like being a very fast horseback rider, but having her fight and kill everyone is beyond dumb 🤦♂️ I wish they could have done this story justice.
So u hater her being a badass sword fighter?
She was in maybe 4 fights, and in 3 of them she had help, and in one she got lucky. That is not even close to fighting and killing everyone. Even in her moment of begging to ride out with her father, she emphasized a support role as a messenger. She didn't say "but I can fight!". She didn't rant about men keeping her down, or have a scene where she one-upped all the boys. She spends most of the film doing proper Anglo Saxon princess things: managing supplies during a siege, supporting her brothers, weeping at her father's bedside, and commanding the final defense (yes, that is also a historically correct role for her).
Very little of what she does is actually epic, yet everyone accepts Helm waking up from a weeks long (at least) coma, running around the mountains during a hellish blizzard for days on end, and still killing hundreds of dudes with nothing but his fists. Just because he's a man. If you can accept Helm doing all that, you should be able to accept Héra doing way less.
nah, I just hate when a story is ruined by a self insert that has nothing to do with the story. Helm Hammer hand saved his people. Not his daughter
@5:13 green screen for some reason.
That is just matrix poping out into the reality.
This is absolutely awful girl-boss mary sue garbage.
Not even she barely fights in the movie this isn’t last Jedi
@@sammysam68 It's total girl boss nonsense. You are just feminized and used to it.
This is Peak wokeness bait and Switch. Man are all Bad and evil hera is ofc Mary Sue and the Hero that could so everything from birth. Nah iam sticking with the books and the original movies.
That's not really how the film is at all.
@@enoughaboutthegreekspeople just assuming shit now just to hate incel mentality
Sigh. I had such high hopes. I'm obviously a sucker. I had the same hopes for RoP and look at that garbage. Fool me twice...
This woke trash is literally god awful.
Yep just another pile of reeking shite along with rims of power
I feel fatigued just listening to the recitation of this movie.
It was Rubbish ! "Boy"en Revenge against the Patriarchy. Girl Boss BS. Anime was poor and stuttery, why didn't they use AI ?
Ai and Tolkien are two things that should never go together, do not even joke like that
@@offtheshelfET Not a joke, I meant AI graphics - rich 3D graphics. Anime is so dated, especially stuttery garbage.
@@RemusKingOfRome No, just no. Ai would’ve made this film look a thousand times worse and more soulless. The use of Ai should be seen like the atom bomb for the art community, under no circumstances should it be used as a stand in for actual human artistry.
@@offtheshelfET Maybe your right ? but soon .. soon .. ua-cam.com/video/71Iuv7INqJ0/v-deo.html
@@offtheshelfET Eh... a lot of people think anima and Tolkien should never go together. I agree.
Three empanadas.
Nice job.
Is Fréaláf dark-haired in this?
Indeed he is. Slightly darker skin too. According to the visual companion his father is from Dol Amroth
@@CounciloftheRings Interesting. Though, if by from Dol Amroth, they mean a Dunadan, he should still be fair-shinned. Seem's odd that the father would take up residence in Rohan, rather than the wife going to Dol Amroth.
@@Tar-Elenion tbf, “fair skinned” can mean a great many things. Frealaf still looks to be European in this, I’ll be it a little tan compared to the others. Not a great decision in my opinion since it makes him look like one of the Dunlendings which can get confusing, but I still think he looks mostly alright.
@@CounciloftheRingslol did the Philippa crew make Dol Amroth's populace swarthy then? One of the few places in Gondor to still have a large Dunedain population?
The only good thing about this movie was "hera" design (and when she shut up) and teh dunlendings , the rest ..... Awfull
Choppy animation, dialogue that didn’t even come close to being token at all and just a load of fan fiction…
It's for the mOdErN AuDiENcE. Hard pass. This is NOT Tolkien, what a surprise.
itiiiiiit failedf
what utter trash show this is. wtf happened to Philippa Boyens? this is pure garbage
wth u talking about, she was always a intersectional feminist trying to inject ideology into LoTR. Only difference now is she is unchecked and has her daughter Phoebe Gittins alongside in this $hitshow
Well... at least the nsfw will be nice. XD
Yes, we should expect some Héra doujinshi. 😉
Mange tak
Despite seeing the film for myself, it wasn't that bad, but I won't deny that it could've been better. Even though the film will likely underperform in the box office, i will say that adapting Tolkiens' works into animation isn't a bad concept and has plenty of potential to work in a film or tv show given time and patience. A few things that need to be learned from the War of the Rohirrim film are to leave out modern-day concepts, stop pushing feminist ideology, don't hesitate to show dark themes, and finally dont deviate from the lore.
This is not Tolkien's work. This is some feminist's wetdream.
Tolkien's work? Is that a joke?
@nomorerainbows not really. I don't understand what you are getting at, dude.
This is completely opposite of Tolkiens work and ideals. Get a brain
@@brandonscott4808 That's hardly a surprise.
This is garbage.
Solid 9/10 film for me!
Yikes, you must have tragically low standards 😂
@steriskyline4470 Not at all. I think the film was wonderful!
The pacing was excellent, all the major story moments we know are there. The only things changed are the brothers deaths were given more significance and Hera was given a name and more to do.
Considering the events all kicked off due to a sham marriage proposal to Hera it makes sense to give her more to do and by having her as our eyes it allowed us to go beyond the eyes of Helm freezing on the steps.
The movie also had many great callbacks to moments set up in the first half of the movie
I think people right now are being rather harsh on the film but given time people will look on it more favorably
Saying things like I have low standards is rather subjective. If you didn't like the film that's fine but that doesn't mean other won't as well
Still a 9/10 for me and I can't wait to see it again!
‘Ends like a super girl boss film’. She is a girl. And she is a boss. The daughter of helm hammerhand didn’t do anything too far-fetched. Her first kill, was assisted by horse and accident. It was very real. At the end she fights, after a long psychologically battering winter, a weaker version of Wulf
I dont think that Hera is a mary sue at all, here's why:
First of all, lets not forget that, besides the writers being westerns (all americans?), the director (who has a big control of the movie) was japanese and this has some typical anime tropes.
Hera have some kills, yes, but none of the other characters became total dumbasses, this only already makes her different from Guyladriel from rings of power doing akward stuff like teaching numenorians how to fight. Look at the fight with the snow troll (wich was killed by Helm when he smashed his face with that rock, Hera just took it down), that fight was a typical anime fight (and, to be honest, exactly what I was expecting from this film), Helm took most of the fight but Hera took part in it too, because they were working as a team (something that you hardly see a mary sue doing). This "teamwork" is a typical japanese trope (due to their collectiveness culture, and thats why so many anime have the "power of friendship" thing), even in the end, when she realises all is lost, what she does is calling Fréalaf for help, not saving the day all by herself.
First I thought it was weird that when Fréaláf was about to rescue Héra, Olwyn say that she has a plan and herself rescue her and put him to kill the guards, instead of letting him do the rescue and herself killing the guards, but I guess it happens because she is older, and thats reason enough for him to follow her (again, something really common in japanese stories, and we can debate that, yes).
And lets not forget that Hera has yes flaws, like being too mercyful to Wulf when he does not deserves it.
Speaking in Wulf, I disagree too that he is just a incel, because his main goal all the time was to crush Helm and all his legacy, took Hera was part of it since Helm refused to give her to him, and, after his death, she becames the only remains of his bloodline in earth, so it makes sense that he wants to erase it.
And about her being a nameless character in the legend that becames a protagonist, I just think that the studio found in that a gap where they cant take creative liberties, a bigger focus could be on Helm? Maybe, but all of his story was there and yet we have a lot to be filled, so I dont think that is a great problem.
Concerning Gondor, I think that they chose to not put it in to not take the focus out of Rohan. Maybe Fréaláf could lead both Rohan's and Gondor's army at the end? Yes, and I think that would be nice, but then would not have the "this folk saved himself" thing (I personally even think that has again some japanese thinking behind it, but I'll keep it to myself because maybe this is too much).
About the animation, the 3d parts were really bad, and its strange because normally films have a bigger production time then series (wich you usually can see bad cg anime), but maybe they enhance it when releasing the blu ray version (japanese studios do this but I only heard of it to anime series, never from a movie for theaters and never from a western studio).
This film will surely bomb on box office (like every movie without a gargantuan marketing-disney-like machine do nowadays), but I still think that we will have more lotr anime in the future, newer generations prefer a lot anime over western movies, and I watched this movie with a friend that never had contact with Tolkien before and she liked it, so lets just dream with a Ufotable's Tolkien anime.
Edit: Uzumaki's director just recently said that the anime was bad because western producers rush things a lot, if Kenji says the same about the war of the rohirrim, I will be not surprised.
Do you honestly think anyone's gonna bother reading all that crap? 😂