Y'all act like MJ & Pippen literally relied on this one rule and the physicality of it. Jordan & Pippen defense was the perfect balance of athletic ability & technical skill: Defensive stance, Always having hands up & active, insane hand eye coordination, lighting reflexes, ability to hawk the passing lane like a free safety. Lateral quickness, movement, balance of feet, awareness of opponents offensive sets. MJ & Pippen's strength (deceptively & very strong by many accounts) is greatly underrated and had the ability fight through screens and disrupt plays. Pippen just had a lesser degree of speed. They were both tall, had long wingspans, with HUGH hands, that could strip you if you were lazy with the ball dribbling or passing. Scottie is being very modest. They were as technically sound defensively as you could get & combined with natural athleticism. They didn't need hand-checking and rarely used it if we are be completely honest.
U act like It didnt help them either of the defensive end not just the bulls example u could say Stockton or Barkley would score more but he would be worst defensively another thing is ppl like Oakley wouldn't be in the leuge
They don't hand check in street ball no more? I haven't played ball in years but even when hand checking was banned in the NBA we still did it nonetheless. But then again that's how we grew up playing ball so it'll be hard to just not do it.
Lol nothing changed and hand checking rule is the most ignorant thing every as its bee around since the late 70s smh guys hand check and they defend just as good as they did back in the 80s and 90s smh atleast all the great defenders the sane as all the great defenders like Pippin, MJ and Payton all could defend like they did in their Era if they played today because they hand checked but they understood when, where and how to do it! Watch guys like Marcus Smart, Jrue Holiday, Pat Bev, Mikal Bridges, Dillon Brooks, Vanvleet and Dejounte Murray and tell me that there is no hand checking today
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
The effect of banning hand-check has been overrated by most boomer NBA fans. There were still tons of low scoring games in the late 2000s/early 2010s. What really happened is that the entire league got better at shooting threes as a whole, defenses had to be more spaced out to defend them which made the paint a lot more vulnerable. That’s the reason defense is a lot harder now. Defense is a team effort now and a team has to be extremely well-coached to play it. Most aren’t because majority of NBA coaches are morale boosters instead of tacticians.
Yea man, the fact that he even shines on defense at all in an era thats anti defense, makes it hard to believe people dont realize hes the best rn in the league
To be honest though he does hand check. People need to get real. When is the last time you seen hand checking called in the NBA? Players put their hands and forearms on defenders all the time. Its just never called, like ever... And just in case someone is wondering hand checking is a different call from a foul. They aren't the same, it's a specific call.
I bet no one would complain about hand checking if you took zone defense away. That would mean all doubles would be late or give up wide open passing lanes. They would love that. And as for handchecking... Just slap that hand away like MJ and Kobe use to do.
I hear you bro, i like defense as much as offense. It takes just as much talent and athleticism to play effective defense. And whats the difference between 94pts and 114 pts? Only people with attention disorder need to see the ball always going in the hoop. The rest of us appreciate the competition involved.... Atleast i thought we did.
Ant Wilder Hand checking would limit offensive consistency because people would go overboard.. making the game a foul show and less entertaining.. so while I understand.. I’d have to respectfully disagree
That_Canuck_God I definitely agree with that. Most of the best players and even most of our stretch forwards/big men in the NBA are mostly coming from Europe
KJ x BUCKETS Not anymore, the all stars all pretty much have egos which will be their demise. World players play to win not to score. That why’s they might beat the US again.
I am 24 and missed out on the Jordan era but I have went back in archives and watched most of the 90’s bulls games and you are completely right. Those were men playing, theses are boys.
I like the 3 point improvement but I agree defence needs something like hand checking back so that strength becomes more of a necessity. Today we see young men with insane talent, before you’d need to a grown man to do something. I wanna get back there
And once that rule was permanently implemented after the 04-05 season..the scoring efficiently rate of scoring perimeter players sky rocketed. And with the hand checking and the physical play back in the old school era..that was where you REALLY saw who was the true dominant scorers. Because it forced them to go deep into their tool box to counter the style of play defenders were allowed to play. This era is basically like nba jam for crying out loud.
Sky rocketed huh? How so? In FG%? In eFG%? Off Rtg? Lol nothing changed from 03-4 season to 04-05 season besides a a increase of a league average of 2 FT attempts more a game which was down in the early 2000s compared to the average amount of FT attempts during the 90s anyways lol
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
@@DonKilluninatilebron literally played his rookie season when hand checking was in place and averaged 20 5 5 out of high school. He would’ve been fine lol. Curry is also an elite ball handler and people much worse then him were fine in the 90’s. Such a shitty take
The ‘02 rule changes allowing zones and doubles def makes up for that. It’s more technical and team D now. But that “90s defense is better” that’s a fallacy, look at the numbers
@@nicyee3701 Hand-checking was "banned" multiple times by the NBA, but each time it would creep back in and the physical style would again dominate. That is until 2004, when the NBA instituted a ban that has been followed ever since. The league's scoring has exploded since that decision. Hard Defense has not been allowed since 2003/04.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Great commentary here by Scottie. He does a great job being objective, doesn't elevate old school over new school and yet shows how both eras have their strengths, while also speaking to how hand checking made the game more complete.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
@@snpaa no fam lol. they had "illegal defense" as a rule just for that. Shaq being dominant changed the rules of the game and now guys can run zone. David stern was a genius businessman but an idiot when it came to basketball IQ.
Is it the 20 year anniversity of zones being legal? Bc it would make sense if it wasn't the topic on 20 year anniversity of hand checking being banned ...
Pip is right. I miss the hand checking days and playing defense. The game is an offensive explosion every night but those days of hand checking and great defense was great
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Well back then you couldn’t put your hands on him period. He was the NBAs cash cow in the 90s. If David Stern saw his “Golden boy” get destroyed out there then he would lose a lot of revenue. On the contrary how would Jordan fare against modern zones. You know he said in his words that his career “wouldn’t be the same” if he played with them. I kid you not.
@@Terror832 He averaged 25 points in 2001/02 before the injury (40+ games) … He was an 38-39 years old man, making young stars look like school players.
It hurt the game in my opinion...they took the physicality out of the game ..this was start of the nba turning extremely soft..too many rule changes. Overkill
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
The NBA today - Player shoots basketball behind 3pt line or half-court, opposing player jumps up 6ft away or in the paint, shot is missed, "Wow.... That's great defense right there, textbook....".....
@@Svarog187 yea the casual fan goes to see scoring but definitely would love to see this hand checking on today games at least for a year and see how much the stats change
Although I’m sure the average person on the street might find more scoring to be more exciting, I really enjoyed the physical battle of old style defence.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Joshua Reynolds Yep, that defense made the game more entertaining and exciting. Now it’s so one sided it’s only exciting with players who can really shoot like the splash bros
The ‘02 rule changes allowing zones and doubles def makes up for any percieved loss of D from the 90s. It’s more technical and team D now. But that “90s defense is better” that’s a fallacy, look at the numbers
BS. Players Hand check every game. Kawhi and Patrick Beverly are masters at it. And literally no ref calls it. Bet you don't even know what the signal for a hand check looks like anymore because it's never used.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
I remember that day. I was in shock and as a hand checking defender it totally changed the way yonger guys played against me. Many just felt offended when i would use my hands in summer and college level playet leagues later on in the 2000s.
Yep and with all the fouls being called now I can't even watch the game...easy points from the foul line.... the game needs defense back give it intensity
Rafal Polish did you know there were *more* fouls called and *more* free throw attempts per game in the 90s compared to today. Referees existed back then just for the record and if you made excessive contact it was a foul.
It made the game more accessible to casual fans who just like to see scores, not playing. Took the physicality out of it, which I think makes it less competitive in a way. They are doing the same the American Football. Defense has been very regulated to favor more offense. Recent example: Casual fans found the Rams vs Patriots superbowl boring because there was little scoring in the first half, even though both defenses were playing their hearts out to stop each offensive drive. It was a battle.
They also added zone defense , which Scottie and company didn't talk about ... So players had to learn to shoot better cause now its easier for defenses to load up and not have to guard a man but just an area to force players into jumpshots... Talk about the entire change not just handchecking and back in the 80s and 90s you could Iso and a clear an entire side of the court and unless the help fully committed to a double team it would be called illegal defense on them
The NBA doesn't run a a hard zone like euro league but its true in the 2000's hybrid ZONE Defense gave players fits but in the 2010s teams like Miami small ball and the spurs ball movement figure the zone out and the warriors shredded Tom Thibidough zone defense that gave players like Kobe fits. Steph Curry figured the ZONE out. Hand checking is the better defence for players like steph curry. A ZONE is good for players like Kobe and LeBron. Greg Popivich collapsing the paint and forcing u to be jump a shooter works on LeBron and Tom Thibidough taking way your strong side and forcing u to your weakside works on Kobe and it gave Kobe fits.
@@xXSprMgaAwsmFxyHtXx it was made illegal in 1979, but not enforced because refs couldn't tell if a player was hand checking or not. It wasn't until 2004 when it was banned for good.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
As somebody that loves and appreciates a defender, I'm sick of seeing guys free-flow their way around halfcourt for buckets. David Stern and now Adam Silver took ultimate competition out of the game....so much so that we now refer to guys that play defense as a 2 way player. Its annoying to watch basketball played out this way.
defense is actually more efficient now than it was in the 90s because the illegal defense rule was taken out of the game. Hand checking also was made illegal in 79, so this whole video is inaccurate, but these kids don't know that...those top scorer numbers are up because the league is more talented than it's ever been, but on average it is harder to score now than it was in the 90s because zone defense is allowed. MJ pulled up all the time because you either had to hard double team or stay man to man so after he beat his guy there was no such thing as help defense, it was literally illegal. The way the raptors stopped Giannis would've been illegal. I've watched so much basketball, the guys now are just bigger, stronger, faster, and more skilled
@@xXSprMgaAwsmFxyHtXx just....no. no. defense isnt more efficient. its consensus at this point that guys just dont play defense anymore. and the game has changed so offenses are shooting far more 3s than ever before so as long as you stay in front of your man, this is considered "efficient" if you're going by data. "league is more talented than ever before"....right...which is a direct contradiction to the belief that these products of the AAU system are lacking fundamental IQ more and more. just stop.
@@kingking-lg6ki Wait I'm Sorry... Kawhi Doesn't play Defense? Patrick Beverly? Anthony Davis? Embid? Klay? Draymond? Jimmy Butler? GIannis? Rudy Gobert? Paul George? And every single one of these wing guys hand check. But Larry Bird played defense right? And John Stockton was an elite on ball defender right? What about Muggsy? Kerr? Charles Barkley? Just stop it. There were lost of players in the 80s and 90s that played little to no defense. And before you bring up John Stockton playing great off ball defense and becoming a steals leader, let me remind you that his on ball defense was trash, and when he made the dream team over Isiah Thomas.... Isiah proved just that by dropping 40 on his head the next two times he played him. Had sorry Stockton running for his life trying not to guard Isiah. And Please explain to me what is wrong with LeBrons Fundamentals? KDs? Anthony Davis? D-wade? Since you think everyone has so many fundamental flaws. Please explain.
@@yogimartinez3039 ok first of all...if you have to name people, that's the entire problem. On top of that, you've named the actual best players in the league. the stars/superstars or super specialists. thats the whole fucking issue. the entire league in the 80s/90s had fundamentals and played defense. the legends that we've come to love just did them better than every one else. you've wasted your time with nothing relevant to say.
@@kingking-lg6ki Haha I Love how you ducked the question. And you are honestly going to say the entire League had strong fundamentals? Is that a joke? I can think of a superstar off the top of my head that lacked some fundamentals. His name is Moses Malone. Although yes, he had great foot work and that is part of fundamentals. The other part is being able to use both hands. He could only use his right hand. And that goes for a fair amount of players in the 80s not just Moses. Let's not pretend like everyone had incredible fundamentals. That's just not true. You are romanticizing your childhood. But please go ahead and tell me the issues with fundamentals that you have against today's league. And then I will name for you player after player in both the 80s and 90s that had that same problem.
When I watched Scotty and the rest of them in their generation. Was amazing! I hate watching score after score nowadays. I miss the days when ball handling meant something. With all the hand checks back then and to see someone get in their and dominate was awesome! But today’s game. It’s just percentages over pure skill and determination. I watch the nba still but I don’t feel the same way about the league like I did in the 90’s- the early 00’s.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
The ‘02 rule changes allowing zones and doubles def makes up for that. It’s more technical and team D now. But that “90s defense is better” that’s a fallacy, look at the numbers... mj wasn’t even allowed to get doubles, cmon now
The media does a horrible job of presenting this debate. The mid 00s rule changes had a larger impact on the game we see today than the hand checking rule changes.
I love how they forget to mention illegal defense from back then. You got to literally play one on one, and nobody could play "free safety" defense. You had to either fully commit to double-teaming (which left a guy wide open), or stay on your man. Defenses today are more complex and everyone can switch and free roam on defense. Doesn't make it better, but many premier offensive players complained about the defensive rule changes that allowed the opposition to play "team defense" against you rather than the strictly one on one/full double team defense of previous years. I wish they'd stop acting like 90s players would average 50+ today. It's just not true, they just love acting like they were soooooo held back
They were clearly held back in that era, as hand checking physical defense reached its pinnacle in the 90s, causing scoring to be at an all time low. You can talk about "complex defenses" all you want, with all the switching going on, but a switch is just the changing from one defender to another with neither being allowed to be physical. Players who played in both eras pretty much unanimously agree that the elimination of hand checking restricted defense, coaches who coached in both eras (i.e. Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich, Rick Carlisle) have said that the rules restrict defense and favor the offense, and even players of today (i.e. Draymond, Kyrie) have said there's basically no defense in the game today. The NBA commissioner, Adam Silver, has also said the NBA rule changes have allowed offenses to flourish AS INTENDED, meaning they knew the rules would restrict defense and they did that INTENTIONALLY.
They pretty much took the defense out of the nba. It's like taking away the tails away from a coin. There's no point of playing heads and tails when there's only one side.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
That leading scorers list after hand checking left something out. Joel Embiid is bullying defenders in the post and Giannis is constantly driving through contact. But on the flip side the refs miss obvious calls or phantom calling for players like harden which is why his numbers are inflated
The hand check rule significantly benefits subsequent generations of players' stats compared to Jordan, and they know it. 1) Joe Johnson "It benefits me," said Joe Johnson. "It definitely changes the game because it gives every guy that extra step. "If we could hand check now, the game would be totally different." "If they couldn't hand check back in the day, there are some guys that would have been even better than they were. It would have been nuts for some of the big-time scorers and perimeter players from the 1980s and 1990s. Can you imagine what Jordan would have done in a league where you couldn't hand check?" 2) Chauncey Billups, during the 2006 ECF Asked if the Pistons will be allowed to play the same kind of physical defense, Billups said: "No way. They put in all those rules, like the hand check, after we won the championship two years ago playing defense. Nobody wanted to see a defensive team in the Finals and winning. It's not as explosive. It's not as fun to watch. I don't like watching it either. I'm not mad at 'em. But you look at us against San Antonio last year. Two really good defensive teams in the Finals played seven games and got the worst ratings in history almost. Seven games. There hadn't been a seventh game in the NBA Finals in a lot of years, man. But look at the first-round series this year. Lakers-Phoenix and Washington-Cleveland had ratings out of the roof. They're running up and down the floor, no defense being played, shooting and running and gunning. That's fun to watch. So they put in those rules to keep it from being 89-85." 3) Larry Brown, one of the best defensive and overall coaches ever "You can't even touch a guy now." I always tease Michael, if he played today, he'd average 50."
because that had very little effect. Removal of handchecking allowed offenses to flourish, with the league PPG average going up, whereas the removal of the illegal defense violation had very little effect on that.
@@back2back379 explain to me why a 'legendary' defensive team like the '88 Pistons with the use of handchecking and physical D, are only 0.2 points better in defensive rating than last year's Bucks. '88 Pistons 104.7 points allowed per 100 possessions. Bucks 104.9 points allowed per 100 possessions.
@@back2back379 pace has nothing to do with points allowed per 100 possessions. you're confusing points allowed per game with points allowed per 100 possessions. the fact of the matter is, the pistons with handchecking and all, are only 0.2 points better in terms of defensive rating compared to the Bucks, but we talk about the Pistons as if they would shut you down when that isn't the truth. The 2015-2016 Spurs, without handchecking had a defensive rating of 99.0 whereas the 98 Bulls had it at 99.8 considering they could handcheck. what now?
The refs allow more physical play without calling fouls but nowhere near back in the 90s. If you recall when the cavs where down 3-1 to the warriors the refs allowed the Cavs to maul curry and it changed the series
I came from an old school way of doing things where we appreciated hard work. Watching those old games is like watching art in motion; everything from the rebounding/boxing out, post up play, hand checking, intense defense, and how the teams had to really work to make that moment of offense (the score) happen and really matter. Today's NBA is like watching kids at the play ground do a shoot around. To me, it's just not that exciting. It is easier on the players, they don't get injured(as much or as frequently or severely), they play for 10 years longer than they did in the past. I understand the NBA is protecting and growing its brand, but I miss the old days. Even playing a pick up game today is different. Make a quick cut, pull up shoot. Go stand at a spot, get the ball, shoot. Nobody touches anyone. Until some old guy like me comes on the court and starts hand checking and pushing everyone.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Sounds like Pip is tryna sound very politically correct and be an ambassador of the game but he knows the game was much more exciting when players actually had to work for their points from being hand checked. He played with Jordan and Rodman for crying out loud smh. The game isn't nearly as exciting as it was in the 80's & 90's.
Relative scoring has not increased that much compared to 30 years ago. Raw scoring is up because the pace of the game is faster, resulting in more possessions per game. Evidence: 1991-1992: NBA averaged 108.2 points per 100 possessions and averaged 96.6 possessions per game 2022-2023: NBA averaged 114.8 points per 100 possessions and averaged 99.1 possessions per game The average points per possession only increased by 3.4% over a period of 31 years, but people are lamenting that it is too easy to score now? (from 1.12 to 1.16). One of the things that bridged the gap between the early 90's and the present is the amount of free throws made in back then. In the early 90's more fouls were called and players shot more free throws. In fact, 30 years ago, the average NBA team made three more free throes per game than we see today. (Note: FT % is higher now than back then).
I wonder how Kawhi’s defense would be with Hand-check that would literally be crazy I just can’t imagine someone getting past him without getting stripped with his big hands!
I'm sorry but handchecking doesn't make up for the difference in athleticism and zone defense. Handchecking can be countered by slapping that hand away like MJ, Kobe, and others learned to do. You can't just slap a way a big jump in athleticism and the additional of zone defense. Instead of playes having to go all the way to you in order to double, now they can sit in your sweet spot and wait for you while playing the passing lane.
What era are you talking about? Bigs today are required to have an outside shooting just because of what you have said. "Handchecking can be countered by slapping that hand away" - The MAIN purpose of handchecking is to DIRECT the offensive player to the waiting defense.(It is only a bonus if the offensive player is slowed down because of the "lack" of that slapping motion)
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Handchecking wouldn’t make a difference since all of them do it anyways. But imagine if you send today’s small forwards back in time to play against the 90s best small forwards. 2010s players would lock them down all day. Best Small Forwards of the 90s: Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill, Chris Mullin, Glen Rice, Jamal Mashburn Now compare that to today’s Best Small Forwards of the 10s: LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Paul George, Kevin Durant, Jimmy Butler
@@Terror832 prime hill was unstopplable like wilkins,pierce was great too,i bet u think lebron is better than bird,imagine rodman guarding lebron haha he would eat him alive
ziginaigra prime for prime LeBron would destroy Bird 1 on 1. He’s way too slow and uncoordinated to match up. It would be so laughable. Rodman may have played great against Shaq but LeBron is a whole different animal to play against. Rodman needs to pull out every mind trick he can if he has a chance.
Reason they do not do those fancy dribbling like kyrie and steph because of hand check...ball rotation is fast and they dribble the ball like they are like in post...consideration of rules...like rodman said lbj is just like ordinary player if he played that era...
More physical doesn't mean defence was better. There was no zone defence back then. Now you can easily guard a physical freak as a team especially if they can't shoot
Deanz Beber Guys in the 90s grew up with the rules being what they were back then and guys now grew up with the defensive rules being what they are now. IMO if you take Curry or Harden and let them grow up in the 80s they would have adapted and became great anyway cause they would have adapted to the rules back then. If you take guys like Stockton (who handchecked his way to thousands of steals) and had it so they grew up today they wouldn’t be able to handcheck but they would be able to adapt to the rules today and still be great too.
@@OfficialJPryde no it hasn't its literally just run and gun cause you know you'll get the whistle if a player actually plays any actual defense on you
@@DatFeature If you believe modern basketball is simply run and gun, the 2 teams in last year's finals were 13th & 15th in pace of play. Check out bballbreakdown if you want to see how in depth the complexity the game is played at now.
Up to mid 90s the scoring was good. Then they start drafting iso players and high school players that slowed down the game. So Stern gave this iso players freedom and now we have a soft league.
In 1984 these were the top 5 scorers Bernard King (Knicks) 32.9552 Larry Bird (Celtics) 28.7803 Michael Jordan (Bulls) 28.2824 Purvis Short (Warriors) 28.0785 Alex English (Nuggets) 27.981
They do, they just play it differently than before. 80s teams were supposed to be a defensive focused eras yet gave up the same amount of buckets at a a similar pace. Even the 90s, adjusted for pace, got stops at the same rate as today despite more rules favoring offensive players.
@@bigchungus2121 lol who says the 80s were a defensive focused era? You mean the era of the Showtime Lakers, with like more than half the teams in the league averaging 110+ PPG? Why would you adjust for pace for the 90s when discussing handchecking, when the pace itself was slowed down BECAUSE of teams realizing how much hand checking and physicality they could get away with?
@@back2back379 everyone who played through the 80s before they lowered the physicality of the 90s. And a big reason pace was lowered wasn't just handchecking. 80s and 70s had it too, it was a crop of very talented bigs and illegal defense rules that allowed post play to be utilized more. If the 90s was so much better on D, they should be able to get stops at a higher rate than the other eras. This isn't the case
@@bigchungus2121 80s and 70s had handchecking too, but 90s is when teams really realized just how much they can get away with it and physicality in general, which started mostly with the Bad Boys Pistons in the late 80s and ended up influencing the style of play of teams like the Knicks, Heat, etc. Also, if you know anything about handchecking, you'd know it mostly applies to ball handling perimeter players, meaning ball handlers were more restricted, thereby slowing down the pace. So no, it didn't mean you could get stops at a higher rate, because teams could still go into the post and get high % shots from guys like Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, etc. You think it was a coincidence that the 7 seconds or less Suns showed up as soon as the 2004 rule changes occurred, or that every MVP since then has been perimeter oriented ball handlers whose movements are no longer restricted in the slightest?
@@bigchungus2121 btw, the NBA itself stated less than a year ago that the summation of its rule changes were made with the intention to allow offenses to flourish (thereby restricting defense), and that the changes have been occurring AS INTENDED. I'm not arguing that players don't play defense, I'm arguing that the rules restrict those players in playing defense while favoring the offense, and that's a fact acknowledged even by the NBA itself.
At 3:54 that is a blatantly misleading graphic. You show the change in points per game but no mention of the change in pace of play? Increased pace = more possessions = more opportunities to score, not necessarily it's physically easier to score. Key reason they didn't mention the 70's & early 80's with the highest pace versus the mid 2000's had the slowest pace ever resulting in the lowest scored games.
Jonathan Ezemba no misleading at all. Pace shouldn’t be counted for. There’s ALWAYS been 48 minutes in a basketball game. That’s like saying show the FGAs for each player. You have 48 minutes to score as many points as possible. Period. Foh with that “pace” narrative
T.Y. Jones Bro the pace is faster because teams are filled with great shooters now. So if a team has 45% 3pt shooters a coach will recognize that and make sure his team takes more shots so they score more points then the other team. It’s literally basketball 101. You can’t blame “pace” when comparing stats because there’s a reason for the increase in possessions because teams can SHOOT. You dumbass.
I like how y'all conveniently went to a down scoring year where the best scorers of that era had retired to try and prove a point. How about go back a couple years back 1990-1991 PPG Scoring Leaders Michael Jordan 31.5ppg Karl Malone 29.0ppg Benard King 28.4ppg Charles Barkley 27.6ppg Patrick Ewing 26.6ppg Huh...Looks pretty comparable today. SMH
I see a lot of people here attempting to say that defenses are better and "more complex" today, but you have no argument for the actual EFFECTIVENESS of any of that when NBA commissioner Adam Silver himself has stated the rules changes were intended to favor the offense and boost scoring, and that those changes are happening AS INTENDED.
@@gunner0479 Yes, but if hand checking were allowed today, there's no way these perimeter players would be scoring the way they are. The hand checking rule literally was intended to allow ball handers to have more offensive freedom, hence why all these perimeter players have been thriving so much for the last 15 years.
@@Drebin1989 Iverson would've probably averaged 30 PPG for his whole career on at least 45% FG without hand checking. I didn't say it would stop them, I said they wouldn't be scoring the way they are now, there's a difference. Besides, as I already said, the NBA literally has already stated that they made the rule changes with the intention of having offenses become the way they are now, and that the changes are happening as intended. They made the rule changes with the intention of freeing up perimeter ball handlers, that's literally why they started to get rid of hand checking in the 90s and completely got rid of it in 2004.
Darryl Davis Just say they can guard James his very good but nobody can garden is very Unguardable Kawhi won couple dmoy and he still can’t guard JAMEs
When Scottie said Michael was the greatest scorer to ever play the game at 2:36 I usually think to myself “o Wilt, o Kareem, etc” then it just smacked me in the face the fact that Jordan led the league in scoring 10x.... that’s insane. He was a mad man.
He was hand checking, watch again especially the one he did with magic, he hand check and puts his elbow to slow down players, that's the rule they took out because it slows down offense, you can't do that now. pat beverly doesn't do that else it will be a foul (which he got after kd complained to refs that pat is hand checking), pat uses his body to slow down players (his hands are up or on the sides most of the time), much like what he did with kd and steph.
When I was a kid I never hand checked I always felt like that was a foul I’m to competitive to try something like that. If you need to hand check your not athletic enough to guard a player.
Man I wonder what the league would look like if hand checking rules weren't in place. The game has definitely gotten a lot less physical. Defense doesn't look the same as before I feel like it's all about getting the easy bucket nowadays and defensive grit isnt valued like before. heck you've got guys like Harden that get the easiest calls if they're softly touched by a finger
Y'all act like MJ & Pippen literally relied on this one rule and the physicality of it. Jordan & Pippen defense was the perfect balance of athletic ability & technical skill: Defensive stance, Always having hands up & active, insane hand eye coordination, lighting reflexes, ability to hawk the passing lane like a free safety. Lateral quickness, movement, balance of feet, awareness of opponents offensive sets. MJ & Pippen's strength (deceptively & very strong by many accounts) is greatly underrated and had the ability fight through screens and disrupt plays. Pippen just had a lesser degree of speed. They were both tall, had long wingspans, with HUGH hands, that could strip you if you were lazy with the ball dribbling or passing. Scottie is being very modest. They were as technically sound defensively as you could get & combined with natural athleticism. They didn't need hand-checking and rarely used it if we are be completely honest.
U act like It didnt help them either of the defensive end not just the bulls example u could say Stockton or Barkley would score more but he would be worst defensively another thing is ppl like Oakley wouldn't be in the leuge
and you think you know more about Pippen than Pippen himself lol
That adderal hit different..
Still handchecking does make it easier to defend
naw they relied on illegal defense to score on offense, defense is actually easier now
Thanks, now I can dribble like crazy at the local gym just to shoot an airball
They don't hand check in street ball no more? I haven't played ball in years but even when hand checking was banned in the NBA we still did it nonetheless. But then again that's how we grew up playing ball so it'll be hard to just not do it.
@@suntansuperman26 Hes being sarcastic
suntansuperman26 nah bruh they be hand checking
@@suntansuperman26 nah were hand checking out here at the parks
I just played street ball like 3 hours ago and i can confirm we are still hand checking
The NBA should bring it back for 1 season to see how it goes . I’d like to see more competition on both sides of the ball not just offense
Lol nothing changed and hand checking rule is the most ignorant thing every as its bee around since the late 70s smh guys hand check and they defend just as good as they did back in the 80s and 90s smh atleast all the great defenders the sane as all the great defenders like Pippin, MJ and Payton all could defend like they did in their Era if they played today because they hand checked but they understood when, where and how to do it! Watch guys like Marcus Smart, Jrue Holiday, Pat Bev, Mikal Bridges, Dillon Brooks, Vanvleet and Dejounte Murray and tell me that there is no hand checking today
true
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Players hand check all the time
The effect of banning hand-check has been overrated by most boomer NBA fans. There were still tons of low scoring games in the late 2000s/early 2010s.
What really happened is that the entire league got better at shooting threes as a whole, defenses had to be more spaced out to defend them which made the paint a lot more vulnerable. That’s the reason defense is a lot harder now. Defense is a team effort now and a team has to be extremely well-coached to play it. Most aren’t because majority of NBA coaches are morale boosters instead of tacticians.
pippen i think has the ability to talk to whales and other marine animals,due to his low frequency voice.
got any proof
Mutombo prolly can.
His and magics voices are very soothing
@@williamlau6838 😂😂😂😂😂
you mean Steven Adams?
If hand checking is brought to today’s NBA Kawhi will win DPOY every year.
Yea man, the fact that he even shines on defense at all in an era thats anti defense, makes it hard to believe people dont realize hes the best rn in the league
Is cus of how huge his hands are
To be honest though he does hand check. People need to get real. When is the last time you seen hand checking called in the NBA? Players put their hands and forearms on defenders all the time. Its just never called, like ever...
And just in case someone is wondering hand checking is a different call from a foul. They aren't the same, it's a specific call.
Honestly man would be a god
Lol LeBron would imagine LeBron being able to hand beck 😭
My lord these players would be crying If hand checking was allowed Devin Booker was complaining about being doubled teamed lol
I bet no one would complain about hand checking if you took zone defense away. That would mean all doubles would be late or give up wide open passing lanes. They would love that.
And as for handchecking... Just slap that hand away like MJ and Kobe use to do.
I would complain about being double teamed too. Nobody likes to get DP.
@@rustybros i can't be the only one who appreciates this, right? That was clever my man.
And no, i don't like getting DP'd either.
Yomali Martinez you mean everyone would get a foul like MJ
It's easy to take out the hand checking if the offensive player got strong off hand to fight that.
I want hand checking back in...i wanna see real competition
I hear you bro, i like defense as much as offense. It takes just as much talent and athleticism to play effective defense. And whats the difference between 94pts and 114 pts? Only people with attention disorder need to see the ball always going in the hoop. The rest of us appreciate the competition involved.... Atleast i thought we did.
Ant Wilder Hand checking would limit offensive consistency because people would go overboard.. making the game a foul show and less entertaining.. so while I understand.. I’d have to respectfully disagree
That's not real competition that's hacking 😂🤣😂
Ant Wilder if that’s the case, then they should also take out zone defense and take it back to the 90s...that would absolutely suck
Ant Wilder you’d get nothin but crybabies
One reason why USA didnt dominate fiba world competition, young guns aren't used to physicality of the game.
Mark Ramos And other countries are becoming better and soon the US won’t be the best basketball country in the world.
That_Canuck_God I definitely agree with that. Most of the best players and even most of our stretch forwards/big men in the NBA are mostly coming from Europe
That_Canuck_God We are going to dominate the olympics when the all stars start playing
They became soft
KJ x BUCKETS Not anymore, the all stars all pretty much have egos which will be their demise. World players play to win not to score. That why’s they might beat the US again.
The NBA just isn’t as “fun” as it was in the 90’s. It was SO good back then.
you're so wrong it's crazy
You just miss being a kid and when Michael Jordan was like Santa Clause for you.
It was more intense. Facts
I am 24 and missed out on the Jordan era but I have went back in archives and watched most of the 90’s bulls games and you are completely right. Those were men playing, theses are boys.
I like the 3 point improvement but I agree defence needs something like hand checking back so that strength becomes more of a necessity. Today we see young men with insane talent, before you’d need to a grown man to do something. I wanna get back there
And once that rule was permanently implemented after the 04-05 season..the scoring efficiently rate of scoring perimeter players sky rocketed. And with the hand checking and the physical play back in the old school era..that was where you REALLY saw who was the true dominant scorers. Because it forced them to go deep into their tool box to counter the style of play defenders were allowed to play. This era is basically like nba jam for crying out loud.
Sky rocketed huh? How so? In FG%? In eFG%? Off Rtg? Lol nothing changed from 03-4 season to 04-05 season besides a a increase of a league average of 2 FT attempts more a game which was down in the early 2000s compared to the average amount of FT attempts during the 90s anyways lol
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
@@DonKilluninatilebron literally played his rookie season when hand checking was in place and averaged 20 5 5 out of high school. He would’ve been fine lol. Curry is also an elite ball handler and people much worse then him were fine in the 90’s. Such a shitty take
@@DonKilluninatibron and curry would be good in the physical era 🤷🏾♂️
I miss the 90s basketball hand checking when you could actually be physical without getting called for a foul
@@Whis__ But it was still done all the time, it said it was but the rule failed horribly hand checking wasnt taken away since probably 2003
no u dnt the nba has never been better, u dnt wanna see low and slow scoring games, dumpin the ball to the big all game
The ‘02 rule changes allowing zones and doubles def makes up for that. It’s more technical and team D now. But that “90s defense is better” that’s a fallacy, look at the numbers
@@Spacetech3000 They were just fouling everywhere and called that defense smh
@@nicyee3701 Hand-checking was "banned" multiple times by the NBA, but each time it would creep back in and the physical style would again dominate.
That is until 2004, when the NBA instituted a ban that has been followed ever since. The league's scoring has exploded since that decision. Hard Defense has not been allowed since 2003/04.
Man just ask Scottie about the glory days with MJ, the dream team and him crapping on Patrick Ewing. Mad respect for pippen and his career ✊🏽🏀
Pippen- right place, right time. Anywhere else, he an average player. He was good, but OVERRATED.
@@mulekickmike2545 overrated? What a stupid millenial comment. smh
He was a beast and a well all around player which jordan lack due to his defense
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Great commentary here by Scottie. He does a great job being objective, doesn't elevate old school over new school and yet shows how both eras have their strengths, while also speaking to how hand checking made the game more complete.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Ikr the good and the bad zen
Scottie always gives great insight and has a level headed response. He would make a good coach.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Zone defense was also illegal in the 90s but I guess we don’t wanna talk about that either
Yeah it was illegal but people still did it, they just tried to hide it .
snpaa bro stfu 😂
@@snpaa no fam lol. they had "illegal defense" as a rule just for that. Shaq being dominant changed the rules of the game and now guys can run zone. David stern was a genius businessman but an idiot when it came to basketball IQ.
Is it the 20 year anniversity of zones being legal? Bc it would make sense if it wasn't the topic on 20 year anniversity of hand checking being banned ...
Defensive 3 second was also not a call till 2002
Yeah, forget the hand check rule. The four step, step back, side step, glide... Killed the game.
Most of them are legal, though, according to the rules, sadly..
Weird how something you made up can kill the game for you.
Pip is right. I miss the hand checking days and playing defense. The game is an offensive explosion every night but those days of hand checking and great defense was great
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Imagine if Jordan didnt get hand checked his entire career.
Well back then you couldn’t put your hands on him period. He was the NBAs cash cow in the 90s. If David Stern saw his “Golden boy” get destroyed out there then he would lose a lot of revenue.
On the contrary how would Jordan fare against modern zones. You know he said in his words that his career “wouldn’t be the same” if he played with them. I kid you not.
Imagine lebron get hand checked his entire career:) 20pt avg at best
No hand checking, no people in the paint … Too easy for him.
@@Terror832 He averaged 25 points in 2001/02 before the injury (40+ games) … He was an 38-39 years old man, making young stars look like school players.
@@Terror832 and the defense in 2001/02 was much much better than it is now.
It hurt the game in my opinion...they took the physicality out of the game ..this was start of the nba turning extremely soft..too many rule changes. Overkill
Preach! Exactly
I get disgusted watching it
Nah the 3pt shot hurt the game because until curry 2016 offense been high
@@bigty390 but the thing is if hand checking was allowed. Steph wouldn't always get space to shoot. Not to mention he isn't that strong
@@mr.harambe2658 exactly! Steph wouldnt be as good tbh
I vote.
Scottie Pippen should be a Coach for a team!
Clown Alan pretty sure he could be if he wanted too
No way. He would get mad and sit at the end the bench and pout when players don't listen to him.
I agree
So that’s why games in the new NBA seems to lack intensity. Players aren’t allowed to use their hands on defense.
Its the age of entitlement. You get a trophy just for participating. Hand check is too much work for players these days.
Not even hand check. Can’t really be physical anymore. Plus the freedom of movement allows more scoring
Handcuffed defenders
hagnuj they could not take it.. see how they all flop and cry?
And what would be just a technical back then would get you ejected from the game today lol
its just a pleasant fun now, with handcheck rule, it was more intense fun
Taking out hand checking is the reason why every team can score 120 points a game
💯💯💯
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
@@DonKilluninatiI wouldn’t say nothing but they certainly wouldn’t have the numbers they have today
Bring back Hand checking. Bring back defense.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
@@DonKilluninatiLebron played in the hand checking era and averaged 20 ppg as a rookie quit playing
LeBron played with hand-checking for one year, and every other year hand-checking was no longer allowed. Hence he is a loser!
He won't be winning this year either!
@@DonKilluninati what does that have to do with what I said 🤦♂️🤣
Scottie Pippen just gets it. Completely accurate and unbiased analysis right there.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
The guy behind Pippen playing the guitar would do pretty well in today’s game.
The NBA today - Player shoots basketball behind 3pt line or half-court, opposing player jumps up 6ft away or in the paint, shot is missed, "Wow.... That's great defense right there, textbook....".....
It's not good for the game at all. Score more doesn't make it more exciting.
It’s become boring to me. The game is one dimensional now.
for people who love basketball its not good, but for casual fans it good thats why its also not allowed to post up someone for more than 5sec...
@@Svarog187 yea the casual fan goes to see scoring but definitely would love to see this hand checking on today games at least for a year and see how much the stats change
Agreed.
@@thehawk5141 also agreed.
I still hand-check in all my old man leagues. Can’t teach an old dog new tricks.
*If hand checking wasn’t allowed back then MJ would’ve dropped 60 every game easy 😂*
Although I’m sure the average person on the street might find more scoring to be more exciting, I really enjoyed the physical battle of old style defence.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Steve Nash is a perfect example of what happened when hand checking was banned
Scottie knew where they was going also. They were going midrange or to the rim! These guys score on 3 levels nowadays
I love the way Scottie reacts with hand checking idea in the all star, He's so excited about that
If they had still had hand checkin most of these stars wouldn't be the star tht they are to a degree plain an simple💯
Joshua Reynolds Yep, that defense made the game more entertaining and exciting. Now it’s so one sided it’s only exciting with players who can really shoot like the splash bros
The ‘02 rule changes allowing zones and doubles def makes up for any percieved loss of D from the 90s. It’s more technical and team D now. But that “90s defense is better” that’s a fallacy, look at the numbers
Harden would come off the bench & be a flop specialist
Agree 100%. Not to say they wouldn't be good players, but it would be WAY more challenging to be as good as they are.
BS. Players Hand check every game. Kawhi and Patrick Beverly are masters at it. And literally no ref calls it. Bet you don't even know what the signal for a hand check looks like anymore because it's never used.
Mj averaged 36+ in that era, imagine he plays now... 🙈🙈
@Lisa Rose so hakeem and shaq is not athletic also patrick ewing?
Lisa Rose Dont talk about B-ball ever again.
He would average much lower.. he's not going up against the plumbers he faced back then
He averaged 10 more than his Highest average PPG
@@dadillonful plumbers? okay le1stexit blind fan Jordan would avg 40 against todays players
The way Scottie defended Magic back then was incredible
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
I remember that day. I was in shock and as a hand checking defender it totally changed the way yonger guys played against me. Many just felt offended when i would use my hands in summer and college level playet leagues later on in the 2000s.
They need to bring that back cause the game is Soft It's too easy to score a basket now Nobody playing defense. Smfh
Yep and with all the fouls being called now I can't even watch the game...easy points from the foul line.... the game needs defense back give it intensity
Rafal Polish did you know there were *more* fouls called and *more* free throw attempts per game in the 90s compared to today. Referees existed back then just for the record and if you made excessive contact it was a foul.
It was easy to play defense back then. Ain’t too hard to guard someone when u holding them
The whole time
It made the game more accessible to casual fans who just like to see scores, not playing.
Took the physicality out of it, which I think makes it less competitive in a way.
They are doing the same the American Football. Defense has been very regulated to favor more offense.
Recent example: Casual fans found the Rams vs Patriots superbowl boring because there was little scoring in the first half, even though both defenses were playing their hearts out to stop each offensive drive. It was a battle.
They also added zone defense , which Scottie and company didn't talk about ... So players had to learn to shoot better cause now its easier for defenses to load up and not have to guard a man but just an area to force players into jumpshots... Talk about the entire change not just handchecking and back in the 80s and 90s you could Iso and a clear an entire side of the court and unless the help fully committed to a double team it would be called illegal defense on them
also hand checking was made illegal in 1979, so they just are completely wrong here again. Just like yesterday with the Justice Winslow comments
All facts!!!!!
The NBA doesn't run a a hard zone like euro league but its true in the 2000's hybrid ZONE Defense gave players fits but in the 2010s teams like Miami small ball and the spurs ball movement figure the zone out and the warriors shredded Tom Thibidough zone defense that gave players like Kobe fits. Steph Curry figured the ZONE out. Hand checking is the better defence for players like steph curry. A ZONE is good for players like Kobe and LeBron. Greg Popivich collapsing the paint and forcing u to be jump a shooter works on LeBron and Tom Thibidough taking way your strong side and forcing u to your weakside works on Kobe and it gave Kobe fits.
@@xXSprMgaAwsmFxyHtXx it was made illegal in 1979, but not enforced because refs couldn't tell if a player was hand checking or not. It wasn't until 2004 when it was banned for good.
Love Scottie's analytics in recognizing the game has evolved and has given this young generation their just do
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
As somebody that loves and appreciates a defender, I'm sick of seeing guys free-flow their way around halfcourt for buckets. David Stern and now Adam Silver took ultimate competition out of the game....so much so that we now refer to guys that play defense as a 2 way player. Its annoying to watch basketball played out this way.
defense is actually more efficient now than it was in the 90s because the illegal defense rule was taken out of the game. Hand checking also was made illegal in 79, so this whole video is inaccurate, but these kids don't know that...those top scorer numbers are up because the league is more talented than it's ever been, but on average it is harder to score now than it was in the 90s because zone defense is allowed. MJ pulled up all the time because you either had to hard double team or stay man to man so after he beat his guy there was no such thing as help defense, it was literally illegal. The way the raptors stopped Giannis would've been illegal. I've watched so much basketball, the guys now are just bigger, stronger, faster, and more skilled
@@xXSprMgaAwsmFxyHtXx just....no. no. defense isnt more efficient. its consensus at this point that guys just dont play defense anymore. and the game has changed so offenses are shooting far more 3s than ever before so as long as you stay in front of your man, this is considered "efficient" if you're going by data. "league is more talented than ever before"....right...which is a direct contradiction to the belief that these products of the AAU system are lacking fundamental IQ more and more. just stop.
@@kingking-lg6ki Wait I'm Sorry... Kawhi Doesn't play Defense? Patrick Beverly? Anthony Davis? Embid? Klay? Draymond? Jimmy Butler? GIannis? Rudy Gobert? Paul George?
And every single one of these wing guys hand check.
But Larry Bird played defense right? And John Stockton was an elite on ball defender right? What about Muggsy? Kerr? Charles Barkley? Just stop it. There were lost of players in the 80s and 90s that played little to no defense. And before you bring up John Stockton playing great off ball defense and becoming a steals leader, let me remind you that his on ball defense was trash, and when he made the dream team over Isiah Thomas.... Isiah proved just that by dropping 40 on his head the next two times he played him. Had sorry Stockton running for his life trying not to guard Isiah.
And Please explain to me what is wrong with LeBrons Fundamentals? KDs? Anthony Davis? D-wade? Since you think everyone has so many fundamental flaws. Please explain.
@@yogimartinez3039 ok first of all...if you have to name people, that's the entire problem. On top of that, you've named the actual best players in the league. the stars/superstars or super specialists. thats the whole fucking issue. the entire league in the 80s/90s had fundamentals and played defense. the legends that we've come to love just did them better than every one else. you've wasted your time with nothing relevant to say.
@@kingking-lg6ki Haha I Love how you ducked the question. And you are honestly going to say the entire League had strong fundamentals? Is that a joke? I can think of a superstar off the top of my head that lacked some fundamentals. His name is Moses Malone. Although yes, he had great foot work and that is part of fundamentals. The other part is being able to use both hands. He could only use his right hand. And that goes for a fair amount of players in the 80s not just Moses. Let's not pretend like everyone had incredible fundamentals. That's just not true. You are romanticizing your childhood.
But please go ahead and tell me the issues with fundamentals that you have against today's league. And then I will name for you player after player in both the 80s and 90s that had that same problem.
When I watched Scotty and the rest of them in their generation. Was amazing! I hate watching score after score nowadays. I miss the days when ball handling meant something. With all the hand checks back then and to see someone get in their and dominate was awesome! But today’s game. It’s just percentages over pure skill and determination. I watch the nba still but I don’t feel the same way about the league like I did in the 90’s- the early
00’s.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Mj would average 50 ppg in today era 💯💯💯
leGoat is the best player ever of all timer. Wow a lebron fan really saying that??? Well deserved w
Tbh Lebron And MJ are the greatest to ever lace it up
leGoat is the best player ever of all timer. Congratulations on ur first W
The ‘02 rule changes allowing zones and doubles def makes up for that. It’s more technical and team D now. But that “90s defense is better” that’s a fallacy, look at the numbers... mj wasn’t even allowed to get doubles, cmon now
space tech Jordan at 40 was putting up 20 vs Zone defense
The media does a horrible job of presenting this debate. The mid 00s rule changes had a larger impact on the game we see today than the hand checking rule changes.
💯
I love how they forget to mention illegal defense from back then. You got to literally play one on one, and nobody could play "free safety" defense. You had to either fully commit to double-teaming (which left a guy wide open), or stay on your man. Defenses today are more complex and everyone can switch and free roam on defense. Doesn't make it better, but many premier offensive players complained about the defensive rule changes that allowed the opposition to play "team defense" against you rather than the strictly one on one/full double team defense of previous years. I wish they'd stop acting like 90s players would average 50+ today. It's just not true, they just love acting like they were soooooo held back
true that!
Thank you so much
no just Michael Jordan
They were clearly held back in that era, as hand checking physical defense reached its pinnacle in the 90s, causing scoring to be at an all time low. You can talk about "complex defenses" all you want, with all the switching going on, but a switch is just the changing from one defender to another with neither being allowed to be physical. Players who played in both eras pretty much unanimously agree that the elimination of hand checking restricted defense, coaches who coached in both eras (i.e. Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich, Rick Carlisle) have said that the rules restrict defense and favor the offense, and even players of today (i.e. Draymond, Kyrie) have said there's basically no defense in the game today. The NBA commissioner, Adam Silver, has also said the NBA rule changes have allowed offenses to flourish AS INTENDED, meaning they knew the rules would restrict defense and they did that INTENTIONALLY.
@@back2back379 scoring was low until 2005. The late 90s and earlt 2000s were the most defensive heavy eras.
They pretty much took the defense out of the nba.
It's like taking away the tails away from a coin. There's no point of playing heads and tails when there's only one side.
*Time to bring back hand checking.*
in 98-99 4 top scorrers was bigman, in 18-19 - all 5 positions)
Hand checking in the All Star game doesn't sound like a bad idea to me tbh 👀
I agree with Scottie if they played like in the 80s & 90s real greatness would definitely be shown especially on defense
did you not just see Kawhi clamp everyone up?
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Even though I'm watching this I've been done with the NBA for 14 years now it's so water down just my opinion.
I am so happy this is a convo
That leading scorers list after hand checking left something out. Joel Embiid is bullying defenders in the post and Giannis is constantly driving through contact. But on the flip side the refs miss obvious calls or phantom calling for players like harden which is why his numbers are inflated
The hand check rule significantly benefits subsequent generations of players' stats compared to Jordan, and they know it.
1) Joe Johnson
"It benefits me," said Joe Johnson. "It definitely changes the game because it gives every guy that extra step. "If we could hand check now, the game would be totally different." "If they couldn't hand check back in the day, there are some guys that would have been even better than they were. It would have been nuts for some of the big-time scorers and perimeter players from the 1980s and 1990s. Can you imagine what Jordan would have done in a league where you couldn't hand check?"
2) Chauncey Billups, during the 2006 ECF
Asked if the Pistons will be allowed to play the same kind of physical defense, Billups said: "No way. They put in all those rules, like the hand check, after we won the championship two years ago playing defense. Nobody wanted to see a defensive team in the Finals and winning. It's not as explosive. It's not as fun to watch. I don't like watching it either. I'm not mad at 'em.
But you look at us against San Antonio last year. Two really good defensive teams in the Finals played seven games and got the worst ratings in history almost. Seven games. There hadn't been a seventh game in the NBA Finals in a lot of years, man. But look at the first-round series this year. Lakers-Phoenix and Washington-Cleveland had ratings out of the roof. They're running up and down the floor, no defense being played, shooting and running and gunning. That's fun to watch. So they put in those rules to keep it from being 89-85."
3) Larry Brown, one of the best defensive and overall coaches ever
"You can't even touch a guy now." I always tease Michael, if he played today, he'd average 50."
When they talk about the removal of handchecking, why do they not bring up that the illegal defense violation was also removed????
James Ber because they added a defensive 3 second violation the same year.
Which further made it easier for offensive players to drive to the hoop.
because that had very little effect. Removal of handchecking allowed offenses to flourish, with the league PPG average going up, whereas the removal of the illegal defense violation had very little effect on that.
@@back2back379 explain to me why a 'legendary' defensive team like the '88 Pistons with the use of handchecking and physical D, are only 0.2 points better in defensive rating than last year's Bucks. '88 Pistons 104.7 points allowed per 100 possessions. Bucks 104.9 points allowed per 100 possessions.
@@jamesber722 1988 was not in a low pace era... Essentially cherry picking without looking at any context whatsoever...
@@back2back379 pace has nothing to do with points allowed per 100 possessions. you're confusing points allowed per game with points allowed per 100 possessions. the fact of the matter is, the pistons with handchecking and all, are only 0.2 points better in terms of defensive rating compared to the Bucks, but we talk about the Pistons as if they would shut you down when that isn't the truth. The 2015-2016 Spurs, without handchecking had a defensive rating of 99.0 whereas the 98 Bulls had it at 99.8 considering they could handcheck. what now?
Frank Ntilikina would flourish if there was hand checking in today's game.
Hand check-in should be allowed in the playoffs
They are
The refs allow more physical play without calling fouls but nowhere near back in the 90s.
If you recall when the cavs where down 3-1 to the warriors the refs allowed the Cavs to maul curry and it changed the series
@@juanio7036 curry usually has a bad game when you play him physically, thats his one weakness.
Tony Borum. He can’t play defense either.
@@thehawk5141 not true
I came from an old school way of doing things where we appreciated hard work. Watching those old games is like watching art in motion; everything from the rebounding/boxing out, post up play, hand checking, intense defense, and how the teams had to really work to make that moment of offense (the score) happen and really matter.
Today's NBA is like watching kids at the play ground do a shoot around. To me, it's just not that exciting. It is easier on the players, they don't get injured(as much or as frequently or severely), they play for 10 years longer than they did in the past. I understand the NBA is protecting and growing its brand, but I miss the old days.
Even playing a pick up game today is different. Make a quick cut, pull up shoot. Go stand at a spot, get the ball, shoot. Nobody touches anyone. Until some old guy like me comes on the court and starts hand checking and pushing everyone.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Sounds like Pip is tryna sound very politically correct and be an ambassador of the game but he knows the game was much more exciting when players actually had to work for their points from being hand checked. He played with Jordan and Rodman for crying out loud smh. The game isn't nearly as exciting as it was in the 80's & 90's.
Applause!!
Game was trash in the 80s . That’s why they took away the rules. Get out of the past
Game is nothing but offense now.. nothing exciting about seeing a bunch of jump shots
Relative scoring has not increased that much compared to 30 years ago. Raw scoring is up because the pace of the game is faster, resulting in more possessions per game.
Evidence:
1991-1992: NBA averaged 108.2 points per 100 possessions and averaged 96.6 possessions per game
2022-2023: NBA averaged 114.8 points per 100 possessions and averaged 99.1 possessions per game
The average points per possession only increased by 3.4% over a period of 31 years, but people are lamenting that it is too easy to score now? (from 1.12 to 1.16).
One of the things that bridged the gap between the early 90's and the present is the amount of free throws made in back then. In the early 90's more fouls were called and players shot more free throws. In fact, 30 years ago, the average NBA team made three more free throes per game than we see today. (Note: FT % is higher now than back then).
I wonder how Kawhi’s defense would be with Hand-check that would literally be crazy I just can’t imagine someone getting past him without getting stripped with his big hands!
Hand checking was out since like the 70s, this rule just made it more clear and official
I'm sorry but handchecking doesn't make up for the difference in athleticism and zone defense.
Handchecking can be countered by slapping that hand away like MJ, Kobe, and others learned to do. You can't just slap a way a big jump in athleticism and the additional of zone defense.
Instead of playes having to go all the way to you in order to double, now they can sit in your sweet spot and wait for you while playing the passing lane.
What era are you talking about?
Bigs today are required to have an outside shooting just because of what you have said.
"Handchecking can be countered by slapping that hand away" - The MAIN purpose of handchecking is to DIRECT the offensive player to the waiting defense.(It is only a bonus if the offensive player is slowed down because of the "lack" of that slapping motion)
Bring it back! Teams have a chance to win from both ends.
Well said Pippen. Players will work hard if they make hand checking part of the game.
This why LeBron and Cury are successful, when in Jordan's NBA they would be nothing, because of the much tougher defense. Jordan would be even better in todays NBA!
Pippen is so smart, and knows how good he was but never loses his ground.
Imagine if prime bron gannis pg13 and Kawhi could hand check
imagine u mj in todays game around 50 every night ,10 more on ft only
@@ziginaigra willing to concede if u agree it goes both ways
Handchecking wouldn’t make a difference since all of them do it anyways. But imagine if you send today’s small forwards back in time to play against the 90s best small forwards. 2010s players would lock them down all day.
Best Small Forwards of the 90s: Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill, Chris Mullin, Glen Rice, Jamal Mashburn
Now compare that to today’s
Best Small Forwards of the 10s: LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Paul George, Kevin Durant, Jimmy Butler
@@Terror832 prime hill was unstopplable like wilkins,pierce was great too,i bet u think lebron is better than bird,imagine rodman guarding lebron haha
he would eat him alive
ziginaigra prime for prime LeBron would destroy Bird 1 on 1. He’s way too slow and uncoordinated to match up. It would be so laughable. Rodman may have played great against Shaq but LeBron is a whole different animal to play against. Rodman needs to pull out every mind trick he can if he has a chance.
Reason they do not do those fancy dribbling like kyrie and steph because of hand check...ball rotation is fast and they dribble the ball like they are like in post...consideration of rules...like rodman said lbj is just like ordinary player if he played that era...
They had stricter dribbling rules too
3 Pt contest isn't basketball, & never will be. Old school b-ball fan
Ok boomer
Alot of guys in the 90s that relied on athleticism would get exposed today with zone defence. Easily. They don't talk about that part though
Hand checking in the all-star game would be GREAT
honestly that is such a great idea
The before and after videos do alot of justice to the argument
And this is the reason that MJ23 is by far the greatest player ever. By far.
More physical doesn't mean defence was better. There was no zone defence back then. Now you can easily guard a physical freak as a team especially if they can't shoot
Deanz Beber Jordan had to face zone defenses as a 39 year old on the Wizards and still performed really well for a guy his age.
money Mark For sure he averaged 20 a game on around 45% from the field his last year. Insane for a 40 year old.
@@laconfidential8504 I'm speaking in general. Jordan had skill. Alot of guys in the 90s that only relied on athleticism would get exposed todat
Deanz Beber Guys in the 90s grew up with the rules being what they were back then and guys now grew up with the defensive rules being what they are now. IMO if you take Curry or Harden and let them grow up in the 80s they would have adapted and became great anyway cause they would have adapted to the rules back then. If you take guys like Stockton (who handchecked his way to thousands of steals) and had it so they grew up today they wouldn’t be able to handcheck but they would be able to adapt to the rules today and still be great too.
Scottie is one of my favorite guests on here!
With the way defense is played, nba basketball has went from being chess to checkers
That's a great analogy. There's very little strategizing nowadays as most teams play exactly the same way.
That's asinine. Game planning has gotten much more complex.
@@OfficialJPryde no it hasn't its literally just run and gun cause you know you'll get the whistle if a player actually plays any actual defense on you
@@DatFeature If you believe modern basketball is simply run and gun, the 2 teams in last year's finals were 13th & 15th in pace of play. Check out bballbreakdown if you want to see how in depth the complexity the game is played at now.
Checkers takes high level Skills too.
If hand checking was back we would see players who can play with their back to the basket again.
Scottie Pippen top 25 NBA player ever💯💯💯
leGoat is the best player ever of all timer. Eehhh I would say around 30 to 50 so shut up !!!!!
Unlike LeBum who isn’t even top 500 ever
Pippen the protype Small forward
That’s why Micheal scoring 37 for the season in 87 is so amazing. Add to that his 30 points per game avg in the playoffs is crazy
He averaged 33.4 ppg in the postseason. No one is even close to that average in the playoffs
Scoring was higher in the 80s to early 90s without much 3 Pt shooting lol
Up to mid 90s the scoring was good. Then they start drafting iso players and high school players that slowed down the game. So Stern gave this iso players freedom and now we have a soft league.
Hand check at all star game. love it
SCOTTIE P' FAVORS' A 6'8" VERY TANNED' SLY "SYLVESTER STALLONE!!"🏀🏀🏆🏆🥊🥊:))*
Been saying this for 25 years
Larry Burks : SAY' THATZ'.....
I can see it lol. That's crazy.
In 1984 these were the top 5 scorers
Bernard King
(Knicks)
32.9552
Larry Bird
(Celtics)
28.7803
Michael Jordan
(Bulls)
28.2824
Purvis Short
(Warriors)
28.0785
Alex English
(Nuggets)
27.981
n that's y it's sooooo many ppl gettn crossed up cuz no hand check
Scoring went way up after that, unreal numbers
Am I the only one that feels like Pippen's answer was all over the place?
well yeah because hand checking was illegal after 79, way before he was in the league, but he had to answer the question anyway
@@xXSprMgaAwsmFxyHtXx No? Hand check was changed in 1999.
pippen is a great analyst and tv personality.
It's a scoring game. I wish more players would play defense. Oh well that's the nba.
They do, they just play it differently than before. 80s teams were supposed to be a defensive focused eras yet gave up the same amount of buckets at a a similar pace. Even the 90s, adjusted for pace, got stops at the same rate as today despite more rules favoring offensive players.
@@bigchungus2121 lol who says the 80s were a defensive focused era? You mean the era of the Showtime Lakers, with like more than half the teams in the league averaging 110+ PPG?
Why would you adjust for pace for the 90s when discussing handchecking, when the pace itself was slowed down BECAUSE of teams realizing how much hand checking and physicality they could get away with?
@@back2back379 everyone who played through the 80s before they lowered the physicality of the 90s. And a big reason pace was lowered wasn't just handchecking. 80s and 70s had it too, it was a crop of very talented bigs and illegal defense rules that allowed post play to be utilized more. If the 90s was so much better on D, they should be able to get stops at a higher rate than the other eras. This isn't the case
@@bigchungus2121 80s and 70s had handchecking too, but 90s is when teams really realized just how much they can get away with it and physicality in general, which started mostly with the Bad Boys Pistons in the late 80s and ended up influencing the style of play of teams like the Knicks, Heat, etc. Also, if you know anything about handchecking, you'd know it mostly applies to ball handling perimeter players, meaning ball handlers were more restricted, thereby slowing down the pace. So no, it didn't mean you could get stops at a higher rate, because teams could still go into the post and get high % shots from guys like Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, etc. You think it was a coincidence that the 7 seconds or less Suns showed up as soon as the 2004 rule changes occurred, or that every MVP since then has been perimeter oriented ball handlers whose movements are no longer restricted in the slightest?
@@bigchungus2121 btw, the NBA itself stated less than a year ago that the summation of its rule changes were made with the intention to allow offenses to flourish (thereby restricting defense), and that the changes have been occurring AS INTENDED. I'm not arguing that players don't play defense, I'm arguing that the rules restrict those players in playing defense while favoring the offense, and that's a fact acknowledged even by the NBA itself.
At 3:54 that is a blatantly misleading graphic. You show the change in points per game but no mention of the change in pace of play? Increased pace = more possessions = more opportunities to score, not necessarily it's physically easier to score.
Key reason they didn't mention the 70's & early 80's with the highest pace versus the mid 2000's had the slowest pace ever resulting in the lowest scored games.
Jonathan Ezemba no misleading at all. Pace shouldn’t be counted for. There’s ALWAYS been 48 minutes in a basketball game. That’s like saying show the FGAs for each player.
You have 48 minutes to score as many points as possible. Period. Foh with that “pace” narrative
punizzzle if the pace is faster then you have more possessions what about that do you not understand?
T.Y. Jones Bro the pace is faster because teams are filled with great shooters now. So if a team has 45% 3pt shooters a coach will recognize that and make sure his team takes more shots so they score more points then the other team. It’s literally basketball 101. You can’t blame “pace” when comparing stats because there’s a reason for the increase in possessions because teams can SHOOT. You dumbass.
I like how y'all conveniently went to a down scoring year where the best scorers of that era had retired to try and prove a point. How about go back a couple years back
1990-1991 PPG Scoring Leaders
Michael Jordan 31.5ppg
Karl Malone 29.0ppg
Benard King 28.4ppg
Charles Barkley 27.6ppg
Patrick Ewing 26.6ppg
Huh...Looks pretty comparable today. SMH
Yeah i did peep that too ridiculous way to try to prove a point
I think they used that era cause the 2000’s was the most defensive era in basketball.
Lol they always do this man.Its so many guys who got busy in that era
Bro they could of showed 2004 when the scoring year was down and then they leave out all those years in the 90s dudes was getting busy
Fire Angel Chris Don’t think you was allowed handcheck in 04 bro
I see a lot of people here attempting to say that defenses are better and "more complex" today, but you have no argument for the actual EFFECTIVENESS of any of that when NBA commissioner Adam Silver himself has stated the rules changes were intended to favor the offense and boost scoring, and that those changes are happening AS INTENDED.
But teams who have great team defence still have the ability to effective ie san antonio for many years and recently the raptors
@@gunner0479 Yes, but if hand checking were allowed today, there's no way these perimeter players would be scoring the way they are. The hand checking rule literally was intended to allow ball handers to have more offensive freedom, hence why all these perimeter players have been thriving so much for the last 15 years.
Uhh yeah they would. If hand checking couldn’t even slow down the likes of Iverson or Kobe, what makes you think it would stop anyone in today’s game?
@@Drebin1989 exactly iverson is even smaller than steph
@@Drebin1989 Iverson would've probably averaged 30 PPG for his whole career on at least 45% FG without hand checking. I didn't say it would stop them, I said they wouldn't be scoring the way they are now, there's a difference. Besides, as I already said, the NBA literally has already stated that they made the rule changes with the intention of having offenses become the way they are now, and that the changes are happening as intended. They made the rule changes with the intention of freeing up perimeter ball handlers, that's literally why they started to get rid of hand checking in the 90s and completely got rid of it in 2004.
Y’all act like harden didn’t avg 36.1 ppg with less shots and Freethrows than MJ ! And he like a 8 assists guy !!
FACTS
Darryl Davis Just say they can guard James his very good but nobody can garden is very Unguardable Kawhi won couple dmoy and he still can’t guard JAMEs
When Scottie said Michael was the greatest scorer to ever play the game at 2:36 I usually think to myself “o Wilt, o Kareem, etc” then it just smacked me in the face the fact that Jordan led the league in scoring 10x.... that’s insane. He was a mad man.
😂😂All the highlights of scottie they showed, he wasn't even hand checking!
He was using fast footwork
Some minor touches and those would get called for reaching
@@TheBmills415 Not even in today's league
@@sholovesholove4620
You mean he would get called for foul or they would overlook them
@@TheBmills415 Ive seen Patrick Beverly get away with worst than what i saw in that video
He was hand checking, watch again especially the one he did with magic, he hand check and puts his elbow to slow down players, that's the rule they took out because it slows down offense, you can't do that now. pat beverly doesn't do that else it will be a foul (which he got after kd complained to refs that pat is hand checking), pat uses his body to slow down players (his hands are up or on the sides most of the time), much like what he did with kd and steph.
When I was a kid I never hand checked I always felt like that was a foul I’m to competitive to try something like that. If you need to hand check your not athletic enough to guard a player.
Worst decision in NBA history. Basketball is so boring now.
Totaly disagree
You weren’t even born when the ban came into effect.
@@YourRump so😂😂😂
90s u had hand checking plus great defensive centers waiting for u at rim
When Scottie talks about defence everyone listen 👂
Man I wonder what the league would look like if hand checking rules weren't in place.
The game has definitely gotten a lot less physical. Defense doesn't look the same as before
I feel like it's all about getting the easy bucket nowadays and defensive grit isnt valued like before. heck you've got guys like Harden that get the easiest calls if they're softly touched by a finger