I really hope that the two separate timelines rumour is true. I hope that they keep the current timeline that results the destruction of the Warhammer World, so that Age of Sigmar fans can continue to enjoy their fictional setting. But I hope that the other timeline will be a timeline where the events of the End Times don't end in the complete destruction of the world. I know I would personally choose the timeline where the world doesn't blow up. Maybe they plan on bringing back (with a bit of rewriting) the old Storm of Chaos timeline as the other timeline.
The thing about Old World that I'm most excited about is the prospect of new fiction from Black Library, I absolutely loved Gotrek and Felix and all the other WHF novels and I would love to see new series for the Three Emperor's era.
I'm a bit nervous about the Black Library of The Old World. I'm nervous because the Warhammer Fantasy background for The Empire and Bretonnia used to be "low fantasy" (and most backgrounds for Warhammer Fantasy) however before Warhammer Fantasy was destroyed by Age of Sigmar, high fantasy was inserted where it shouldn't be (The Empire, obviously) and Age of Sigmar afterwards was really high fantasy. I fear that I'm going to be reading about Nuln (City in the Empire), only for those stupid half-bird, half-horse creatures to appear to ruin the scene... (Honestly, the person who decided to put monsters as part of the Empire should be slapped.) Although Warhammer Fantasy was mainly a low fantasy, Age of Sigmar was a high fantasy and I believe The Old World will cling to the high fantasy of Age of Sigmar and that isn't why people read the non-40K black library. Just look at the new Kislev models, normal soldiers riding bears while magically creating and using ice weapons... Who wants that? And let's face it, the new authors of The Old World books (background, omnibus and novels) will have no knowledge of what they are writing about... The quality of background writing (for each core rulebook and army book) was decreasing over time and this is before the large gap of time between when Age of Sigmar began and The Old World begins. Silly creations and incompetent writers lead to poor books... Why GW doesn't just let their novelists write the backgrounds is beyond me. GW has has great writers but they are getting older with time. I'm sure that you've tried out a few audible Chronicles but for good novels (that were not placed in chronicles), I would suggest "Iron Company" by Chris Wraight (Black Library's 2020 Reader's Choice), "Necromancer" by Johnathan Green and "The Enemy Within" by Richard Lee Byers. I can recommend good Chronicles but you probably want to make your own mind. When we get new WHF novels from the Black Library, I want them to be sensible/clever but I don't think that most writers of/after Age of Sigmar can pull it off...
In regards to new AOS stuff being backwards compatible, I imagine the new zombie and skeleton models will be playable in Old World, just stick a square base on them and you good to go
My guess is that GW might simply release the Armies by sets of 2 with a Battlebox opposing a beginner force of these factions. Each Battlebox would be accompanied by a Book, as a Chapter of the Great War against Chaos, similar to the Imperial Armour, containing the rules for said armies (rule and lore) and the scenario in which they fight. It would be a combination of what they're doing with AoS and Horus Heresy, so I don't expect to be wrong there. And yes, a Warriors of Chaos (or just Chaos) vs Kislev box sounds like a nice beginning (since the first don't need many new models whilst the other is entirely new). The box would just represent the vanguard of the Everchosen attacking the frontier of Kislev.
I heard rumours around age of sigmar and TOW (might be interesting if you collect TOW but aren't opposed to aos) kislev apparently are supposed to get rules for age of sigmar where they could as a "northern city of sigmar" similar to how some forgeworld units are ported off to aos
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges I'm hoping their is a lot of compatability, it would be juice to be able to use soulblight models but I'm hoping that circular bases can slot well into rank and file formation trays
I mean to be fair, the Cities of Sigmar army is already "Whatever you have left from Fantasy, the Army Book". So it's not like the units for Kislev or Cathay needed to be transported with lore. Most of them are already pretty obvious count as for Freeguild or Aelf units.
"Bring all the old guard back" Not guaranteed. People don't like being made a fool of, and GW really tried their best with the End Times to make people feel like that. Some have moved on; dropped wargaming or moved onto other games, even other square-based games. I know I'm not going back to their games.
More, more than 15 or 20 years, youngling. It took them more than 30 years to realise videogames promote their TT products, at the very least. Remember Warcraft? Yeah...
About the names Tomb Kings and Beastmen - they are not copyrightable. So they probably going with Khemri and Beasts of Chaos so that they can copyright it.
Bring back TK, justice for Khemri! Seriously though so excited to finally get my hands on a Tomb King force! Also as a side note given TW Warhammers timeline and characters like Repanse would it be a stretch to see some old world characters pop up in game? GE does love that sweet Cross promotion 😉
@7:15 Yes you are right, Kislev was announced for TOW (May 2020 I think) before Tota War Warhammer 3 (which was February of this year). @13:46 The initial article announcing TOW from November 2019 read 3 to 4 years for the game to arrive. The pessimist/realist in me leans towards 4 years so 2023 will be the year this game finally comes. I was thinking that with the re-release of the 3rd Edition 40K starter set models that we could definitely see a re-release of some old WHFB starter set made to order up to TOW’s release. Dammit, one more thing, I saw many of the rumors listed here on Faeit but yes they pop up all over the place.
I've already started buying all the old Warriors of Chaos units/heros/Lords for my Khorne themed army. Regardless whether I'll be able to keep playing with all of it, it'll still be fun to build/paint.
It will definitely be a main title wth. It's The Warhammer that began it all. Forgeworld might do some big centerpiece models like previously but not the whole armies.
I'd like to know the real story on playing old armies in ToW. Remember how at first in AoS you could use all your old stuff? Gradually, the old models were either discontinued or outclassed by the new Battletome factions. In the latest GHB, vast swaths of the old warscroll factions are now no more. At the end of the day, GW doesn't make money from people bringing 20 year old armies to the game. For my High Elves, will I be able to play them on Day 1 of ToW's launch? Will all my old units be legal to play? What about other armies? A person doesn't want to wait years for The Old World only to find out that only a few factions are supported at launch. They don't want to be told to wait a year or so and *maybe* their favorite faction will be playable. They want to jump in on launch day and play!
My biggest hope is that they scale it down a bit. 4e/5e was perfect in this respect - you'd start an army at 1000 points, and build it up to 2000, and eventually, to 3000. The "standard" army was 2000 points, and in that context, 1000 points was literally half your army, while 3k was your standard army plus reinforcements to make a large army, for a large battle. Personally, I found 1500-2000 points to be most fun, because you had to make some concessions to assamble your force, instead of just cramming every cheese you could think of into the roster. When 6th came along, not only did it push toward larger games, putting 2000 points on the low end, and pushing 3k as the "new normal", going up to 4k, but also the point value of individual units went down across the board, which meant your old army wasn't even worth as many points as it was before, and you constantly needed to expand. Instead of focusing on tabletop environments, people were too busy expanding their armies to keep up (and leaving new players in the dust, as it became more, and more difficult to even get started when you needed twice as many models as before); the result was playing with ever bigger armies on badly mismatched battlefields with bare bones terrain.
Umm my experience was different. 6th edition had 2000 points as the norm pretty much in every tournament here, some went up to 2250 but never did I saw 3000 point tournament.
@@cmxpiipl tournaments have to be resolved in a reasonable amount of time, so playing 2000 points was good. Still doesn't change the fact that units that used to cost 13-16 points per model in 5th, were 10 points per model in 6th, and GW did keep pushing 3k games constantly with their WD battreps.
@@jakubfabisiak9810 unm actually quite many units cost even more in 6th than 5th. Example warhawk riders base cost from 30 to 40. Archers 11 to glade guard 12. Waywatchers 18 to 24. Scouts 16 to 17 etc.
@@cmxpiipl but then you also had limits on magic items, so instead of taking a 75 standard, your regiment was now limited to taking a 25 point standard. Heroes could take 100 points of magic items total, when you used to have 100 point magic items in 5e, so heroes suddenly were losing close half their point value.
Great video. I did notice on the announcement post they specifically said that they had not been working on anything yet, only the logo. So I doubt they started working on anything before they announced it, but rather started after they announced. Either way, great informative video on the rumors. Keeps me up to date. GW rumors have been pretty spot on as of yet (at least for 40k).
They usually say they arent working in anything when in fact they have been it's a weird thing they do I guess it's to keep people from asking daily about iy
Nathan it's great to see you going back to covering tabletop lore and rumours of the Old World and thanks for calling me a fossil, as long as the Tomb Kings get a good reworking I'll be happy.
I'm not buying anything directly from GW until they act like a company I would want to support. They have had lots of complaints from UA-camrs that GW fucks with them for making content. It just makes me feel like they don't even respect the fan base. IDK I could be wrong about GW but I cant justify buying models and rule books just for them to act like pricks. Plus I can save hundreds of dollars!
I still believe that the first Army v Army box will be Bretonnia vs Tomb Kings/Khemri. There are two things that I would like to see though first is an actual Chaos Cultist Army list and mini's the second may be a lot of work but go back to 5th in allowing us to use Magic Items. Finally if we get a new Gorbad Ironclaw mini can we get multiple special characters from that war then, base it along the lines of the Idol of Gork senario box from 5th and release some new mini's alongside it. Also bring back the Regiments of Renown.
total war got me into fantasy I was crushed when i found out it was already dead I fell In love with the vampire counts an I'm planning on getting mannfred at some point but I'll sell my soul to the Dark gods for a new vlad model
My thoughts, Cursed City has a kislevite vibe and they say that expansions are coming for it. Since they've done a bunch of design work on kislev already I think there is a good chance that kislevite models will start to be introduced as part of Cursed City. Humans were notibly absent from the Cities of Sigmar starter boxes. This makes me think that they were at least planning on doing a redisgn on humans or they could easily have stuck a couple of sorts of state troopers and a few other things in a box and sold it along side the elves and dwarves. Since humans were in the Dominion teaser and the Crusades are prominent in the abusing resently I am expecting new human models soon fur age of Sigmar (I kinda think that pair of witch hunters were intended to be part of something larger as well). Whether it'll Ulfenkarn/Kislev style humans or something else I don't know
Regarding cursed city expansions, I suspect we’ve already seen most of the contents already as part of the Soulblight Gravelords release and the father & daughter duo of Witch Hunters. If Blackstone Fortress was any indication as well there will likely be some cheapo expansion that adds some of the EtB nighthaunt units given there’s a ghosty district of the city.
I'm debating if I should be buying and painting Bretonnians now or wait and see if they change their look? I also don't want to buy a unit that doesn't end up in their new army list.
@@bigbake132 They'll probably have an identical "look" I imagine they'll do what they've done with modern 30k/horus heresy and up the scale. But otherwise I love the model lines, keeps painting interesting since you'll be doing unique coloring for each knight
I still say GW should make a digital table top version. . Given GW don't even want people to comment on AoS content they release, I wouldn't be surprised if Old World did well it could bump off AoS.
Back when I started in 6th edition the Chaos army books were Hordes of Chaos (Mortals/Demons) and Beasts of Chaos. So they were definitely called that back in the day. I think you could take beastmen in the Hordes of Chaos book too, with mortals, beasts and demons in one army.
If only they didn’t reboot Fantasy so they could have already have been making a profit off the massive revitalized interest in the setting because of the Total War games. Better late than never I guess lol
I can't see the Kharadron Overlords existing in Warhammer Fantasy and without them I wouldn't bother playing, plus I am not a fan of rank and file type games. So if they hadn't made AoS they wouldn't have gotten any of my money. Though I play the crap out of TW.
I'm surprised Lizardmen aren't considered an Order race in this video's predictions. Aren't they supposed to be one of the most Order-driven races in the setting, given their rigid adherence to how the Old Ones believed their world should be?
Index books may also open the door for proxies, like Perry's Brother's 100 year we kits for the Britonisns. So they could have a very lively game without ceasing their own models. Of course that means list possible sales...
Yeah Perry Brothers and Highland miniatures are fantastic imo. I'm glad they're there as an option just in case GW make a mess of Bretonnian and Empire sculpts (assuming they actually update the Empire troops).
I just hope that when Games Workshop releases new/updated models, they keep them at 28mm scale instead of the move to 32mm like they're doing with everything else. Oh, and bring back Battalions baby!
15:55 Well, from vengeful wishful thinking, clearly. And yeah, the launch version of Age of Sigmar was utter trash, but both the crunch and the fluff have come a long way since. Either way, I wouldn't want to take anything away from anyone else; I just want back the Old World. And not only am I getting that, but arguably in its most interesting era (at least as far as the Empire goes) and with expansion teases already for some of the many neat factions we had never gotten to play before. It'll be even more of a challenge to decide on which to get. If it weren't for the inevitable price tags, I'd want them all. Fingers crossed for a Mordheim relaunch right on its heels.
I really wanna play Warhammer the old world, I never played Warhammer fantasy battles (since I got in too late) and I hope I can play the factions they have put in the TW: Warhammer games (especially Kislev and Cathay I love their art)
In regards to them not properly play testing them, the AOS dragons where undercosted on launch. Not so much an issue if you take a unit or two of dragons, more if you took an whole army.
Here is something I am wondering about, my local GW shopkeeper seems pretty sure that Old World is gonna be a Forgeworld Product, any thoughts about this?
There have been, for a couple years now, persistent, non-sourced rumors, that Forgeworld will at some point in the future no longer be as independent from GW as it has been, and that HH will become a main line GW game, and the current FW team will be placed in charge of GWs secondary games (Not AoS, 40k or possibly HH) and projects. If this is the case ToW falling under forgeworld makes sense. As I said though, there is no source to these rumors, just ones I see discussed in multiple circles very often.
Iirc when first announced it was going to be the project worked on once HH was wrapped up in about three years time (so, now-ish, likely a bit longer given the various hurdles that have emerged since 2019). Which would indicate FW’s specialist games team taking charge.
I've been wanting to get into the Warhammer world on tabletop as my first introduction to everything Warhammer was Total War. Should I wait until Old World comes out or is there a better way to get into the tabletop. My biggest fear is that I won't have anyone to play with but I also haven't researched local game stores and if they frequently play tabletop games or not. What do you guys think?
Hey Nathan don't you want to react to the new vermintide 2 trailer or at least talk about it? I'd really like to hear your opinion. Anyways happy new year already!
I don't see ind/khuresh happening on tabletop, chaos also attacking the great bastion during old world, chaos dwarves being active, ogres existing, I see all these as possibilities in the setting around the time of that great chaos invasion, we know that when the winds of chaos swell chaos gets more active everywhere, not just in 1 location, so increased assaults on the bastion also makes a lot of sense, irrelevant(to the events elsewhere) far south east stuff, less likely to ever feature
We have seen people make literal 3D prints of the Total War Warhammer models, I imagine they would make some of that themselves, would buy a Grom The Paunch if I can use it for tabletop / AoS
Having multiple timelines and a true multiverse in Warhammer they should make the Old World as an alternative reality in which its fate isn't going to be the same as the one of the End of Times. In this way you could include units of Age of Sigmar in their tabletop and Warhammer III as invocations from the Winds of Magic.
Andy hore did the something like the indexs when necromunda came out and he was in charge of that then so i reckon that's 100% true 👍 I just hope they give us some more news 🙏 and they should start made to order soon really I need high elf silver helms and dragon prince's 😁
I have a problem with the old world, on the one hand I would love to play it, and do want to start this as the first real miniatures game I've played, but GW is such a shit show that I don't want to support them, but also I know if I don't support them that they will are the game off and there is almost 0% chance they bring it back
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges but mostly as hob-goblin unit not a unique faction another thing I think Cragnos might just be an evolved Centaur since if you look at their lore Cragnos only is that big because he has become a god by stealing artifacts from other races.
I hope they put some real thought into the Chaos dwarfs I remember in Fantasy Chaos dwarfs were just Dwarfs but better. If you wanted to play Dwarfs but could afford CD, you would play CD as they just perform better in every single way and more than normal Dwarfs. There a literal case of "Anything you can do I can do better and more" -Just as good frontline -Good range units -Better artillery But they also have things that Dwarfs straight up dont get - Expendable chaff units (Hobgobbos) - Monsters -Magic - Cavalry
Even if GW made a 8th ed style core book, well "WarhammerArmiesProject" their 9th ed was better. But really GW had cut down on and basically abandoned templates. And from a hard review of what caused Warhammer Fantasy to fail i can summerize the whole thing in two words. Unit Trays, basically the model line and difficulty moving models seemed to be the #1 thing that kept players away, particularly when 40k had over 20 times better marketing, meatier models with more detail and more people and publications showcasing them, and less need to buy extra stuff that you can't change later to fit a change in playstyle. If GW wants Old World to be a success they need to address the model issue, because And I'm saying this as someone who'd rather shot themselves with buckshot in the balls rather than subject myself to the netlisters and toxic assholes that make up my nation of France sized play area of AoS. AoS's approach to units and model scale is far more successful than Fantasy's...that's about the only thing abiut AoS GW did right, everything else has been patch after patch or retcon after retcon so all my complaints somehow aren't valid even though they're all things that have been and still are major issues.
I'd like to see oval bases. There could be leadership benefits for staying in formation vs the ability to maneuver. As for writing rules for a faction of normal humans: Take normal humans, and add the fantasy on top. Case in point: Nippon armybook Special choices: Ninja and Swordsaints. Samurai and Dragon Ghosts (Divine Wind) as Rare. Give them a new Lore of magic. Ez Pz.
Yep Beasts of Chaos and Hordes of Chaos and they were both mixable, with just the general affecting which of the units were core, special and rare. Also you needed beast general with ambush rule to utilize ambush on the other beastmen units that had it.
AoS has been a fever dream of a bad diarrhoea episode. The Old World is the Imodium stopping GW from explosively shitting on us. All hail the old world. All hail Imodium.
I for one would disagree with this. I never would have spent a penny on WF but I have bought an army for AoS. I also won't be spending anything on The Old World I am just here for curiosities sake.
@@FluteGnome not sure if you meant me or not but I am not upset. If they keep be th systems hurray, if they get rid of AoS then that would be disappointing but all it would mean is they would only get money from me for my 40k army instead of two armies.
>Empire (Free cities update) vs warriors of chaos (new chosen or woch with weapon options) >Kislav (Free cities) vs Khorn ( an update for AoS khorne, Khornbeast would be nice) >Welve (wonder if the new welfes model will be added to free cities or fully made into sylvaneth second wave? Also Khurnot hunters, spite and Revenants as Treekin army for wf welves, I mean they always looke like recycled 9th edition army update for welves treekin. Orion brought back to life in AoS?) vs Beastman (lol as if they ever get updated models) >Greenskins (so, if savage orcs get update it means update for AoS, but will new orc boyz get rules in AoS when kruelboyz technically took over their role? Also, kruelboyz in wf as not!Halforcs, whom I once red were from spores grown up from dead humanoid corpses but that must had been fan made up) >vampire counts (already get updated released in AoS with soulblights, need only characters) >skaven vs lizardman (both need massive model update, both playable in AoS) >helves (still part of free cities or souped with lumineth?) >delves (Daughters of Khaine second wave, will Morathi get WF model with pegasus? Will be Melusai and Khinerai added to delves wf army? What about shadow elves? Khainite Shadowstalkers look like elite Shades) >Dwarves (if playable in AOS, part of Free cities or souped with Fyreslayers and Kharadron into new faction?) >Bretonia (I often joke, that GW will turn grail knights into "the real medieval space marines equivalent with punk medieval aesthetics," stormies on suicide watch. Again will they be part of Free cities?) >Gloomspite (Nigh goblins having their own faction army in WF? GW had admited they had planned to give all goblins faction their own armies and aos gloomspites like many aos armies feels like recycled ideas for WF 9th edition) >Ogers (update for Oggors) vs Cathay (Free cities will get more bloated than stormcast at this point) that should be all. I hope this will open people eays to finally understand OW will be much bigger for AoS than marines getting new FW verhicles. I had listed up only faction that both exist in WF and AoS. or have model synergy ("recycled WF 9th editions.") Will that mean that GW will prioritize these faction over AoS original factions (Stormies,Ossiarch, Kharadron)? EDIT: I think a big indication for AoS and WF:OW synergy will be chaos dwarves. If they are a full new thing like Kruelboyz and Lumineth, I dont think GW will push the synergy much. But If they are OW chorves in AoS, the possibility is there.
They could also make Kislev and Cathay their own faction in AOS (which I would hope) and put a return of the dragon emperor and his children in AOS. The free cities are going to get bloated if they add Kislev, Cathay, Bretonnia and dwarves
Warhammer the old world is so far the only thing new on the warhammer horizon I'm interested in. AoS is just stupid, warhammer fantasy is over, and 40k is going in a kind of dumb direction. As far as the lore goes, I'm genuinely interested in seeing what they do with the old world, as long as they don't end up like Kislev in total war warhammer with idiotic fantasy elements where it's supposed to just be historical units.
I don't play total war, but I'm not sure what you mean "it's supposed to just be historical units". No faction in Warhammer Fantasy is just historical units. The word "Fantasy" is right there in the title of the game.
@@GoatTheGoat yeah... no the base of it is historical units in the lore, as far as the humans go. Historical infantry, cavalry, artillery (for the most part) with some magical and fantasy elements added on. Kislev in total war has nearly every unit some magical ice shit on it, and it's ruined for me.
When GW announced Old World I'm pretty sure they had literally nothing. You're deluded if you think GW didn't start "Old World" purely for copyright purposes. You know this deep down. If you don't use your IP you lose it. At some point maybe they realised Total War might allow them to make money and they've finally realised how to make the best of Total War... but that's a bad thing imo. Originally I bet you anything Old World was basically two dedicated people in the basement told to make a game so that Gdubs can protect their IP: but they put their back into it and produced the best ruleset they could. Then GW decided, via Total War, to interfere, ruining any chance we had of an actual good game $$$. GW only thought up Old World to protect their expansive - superior - Warhammer Fantasy IP. Somewhere along the road they realised they can tap that Total War fanbase I guess, thus the nonsense Kislev preview we got which looks about as bad as the faction in the actual Total War 3 game. Very Age of Sigmarish. Bad news.
I'm a bit late to cover the rumours but never late than never :)
Could you do a video on the lore for this time line for the new old world?
I really hope that the two separate timelines rumour is true. I hope that they keep the current timeline that results the destruction of the Warhammer World, so that Age of Sigmar fans can continue to enjoy their fictional setting. But I hope that the other timeline will be a timeline where the events of the End Times don't end in the complete destruction of the world. I know I would personally choose the timeline where the world doesn't blow up. Maybe they plan on bringing back (with a bit of rewriting) the old Storm of Chaos timeline as the other timeline.
I'd love that personally 🙏
The thing about Old World that I'm most excited about is the prospect of new fiction from Black Library, I absolutely loved Gotrek and Felix and all the other WHF novels and I would love to see new series for the Three Emperor's era.
That's if they take the time to do so. Look as how often AoS books come out compared to 40k now throw fantasy into the mix.
@@cultist1762 that's true, it might be too much, but then I'd at least like to see more of the older WHF novels released on Audible finally.
@@cosmoapeters I agree, I vote for the Sigvald novel in every poll but trying to beat 40k novels is next to impossible on their website.
@@cultist1762 yeah, I enjoy 40k stuff too, but it sucks how overlooked the other stuff has become.
I'm a bit nervous about the Black Library of The Old World. I'm nervous because the Warhammer Fantasy background for The Empire and Bretonnia used to be "low fantasy" (and most backgrounds for Warhammer Fantasy) however before Warhammer Fantasy was destroyed by Age of Sigmar, high fantasy was inserted where it shouldn't be (The Empire, obviously) and Age of Sigmar afterwards was really high fantasy.
I fear that I'm going to be reading about Nuln (City in the Empire), only for those stupid half-bird, half-horse creatures to appear to ruin the scene... (Honestly, the person who decided to put monsters as part of the Empire should be slapped.)
Although Warhammer Fantasy was mainly a low fantasy, Age of Sigmar was a high fantasy and I believe The Old World will cling to the high fantasy of Age of Sigmar and that isn't why people read the non-40K black library. Just look at the new Kislev models, normal soldiers riding bears while magically creating and using ice weapons... Who wants that? And let's face it, the new authors of The Old World books (background, omnibus and novels) will have no knowledge of what they are writing about... The quality of background writing (for each core rulebook and army book) was decreasing over time and this is before the large gap of time between when Age of Sigmar began and The Old World begins. Silly creations and incompetent writers lead to poor books... Why GW doesn't just let their novelists write the backgrounds is beyond me. GW has has great writers but they are getting older with time.
I'm sure that you've tried out a few audible Chronicles but for good novels (that were not placed in chronicles), I would suggest "Iron Company" by Chris Wraight (Black Library's 2020 Reader's Choice), "Necromancer" by Johnathan Green and "The Enemy Within" by Richard Lee Byers. I can recommend good Chronicles but you probably want to make your own mind.
When we get new WHF novels from the Black Library, I want them to be sensible/clever but I don't think that most writers of/after Age of Sigmar can pull it off...
I heard a rumour that Khuresh will come, I was the one to start the rumour though.
2023 also marks the 40th anniversary of Warhammer Fantasy
The first Beastmen army book (6th edition WHFB) was called "Beasts of Chaos". I'm not sure why you are so surprised that people call them that.
My favourite Codex got it signed by Gav Thorpe
In regards to new AOS stuff being backwards compatible, I imagine the new zombie and skeleton models will be playable in Old World, just stick a square base on them and you good to go
My guess is that GW might simply release the Armies by sets of 2 with a Battlebox opposing a beginner force of these factions. Each Battlebox would be accompanied by a Book, as a Chapter of the Great War against Chaos, similar to the Imperial Armour, containing the rules for said armies (rule and lore) and the scenario in which they fight.
It would be a combination of what they're doing with AoS and Horus Heresy, so I don't expect to be wrong there. And yes, a Warriors of Chaos (or just Chaos) vs Kislev box sounds like a nice beginning (since the first don't need many new models whilst the other is entirely new). The box would just represent the vanguard of the Everchosen attacking the frontier of Kislev.
I heard rumours around age of sigmar and TOW (might be interesting if you collect TOW but aren't opposed to aos) kislev apparently are supposed to get rules for age of sigmar where they could as a "northern city of sigmar" similar to how some forgeworld units are ported off to aos
It could work tbh compatibility for the similar titles would do wonders for everyone
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges I'm hoping their is a lot of compatability, it would be juice to be able to use soulblight models but I'm hoping that circular bases can slot well into rank and file formation trays
Archaon: HOW!? I KILLED YOU ALL!
Kislev: The ice of Kislev never dies BLYAT.
I mean to be fair, the Cities of Sigmar army is already "Whatever you have left from Fantasy, the Army Book".
So it's not like the units for Kislev or Cathay needed to be transported with lore. Most of them are already pretty obvious count as for Freeguild or Aelf units.
@@farseeraradrel4808 my interpretation is that it's a specific city with specific rules, only they can use kislev exclusive units
"Bring all the old guard back" Not guaranteed. People don't like being made a fool of, and GW really tried their best with the End Times to make people feel like that. Some have moved on; dropped wargaming or moved onto other games, even other square-based games. I know I'm not going back to their games.
More, more than 15 or 20 years, youngling. It took them more than 30 years to realise videogames promote their TT products, at the very least. Remember Warcraft? Yeah...
About the names Tomb Kings and Beastmen - they are not copyrightable. So they probably going with Khemri and Beasts of Chaos so that they can copyright it.
Bring back TK, justice for Khemri!
Seriously though so excited to finally get my hands on a Tomb King force!
Also as a side note given TW Warhammers timeline and characters like Repanse would it be a stretch to see some old world characters pop up in game? GE does love that sweet Cross promotion 😉
@7:15 Yes you are right, Kislev was announced for TOW (May 2020 I think) before Tota War Warhammer 3 (which was February of this year).
@13:46 The initial article announcing TOW from November 2019 read 3 to 4 years for the game to arrive. The pessimist/realist in me leans towards 4 years so 2023 will be the year this game finally comes.
I was thinking that with the re-release of the 3rd Edition 40K starter set models that we could definitely see a re-release of some old WHFB starter set made to order up to TOW’s release.
Dammit, one more thing, I saw many of the rumors listed here on Faeit but yes they pop up all over the place.
I've already started buying all the old Warriors of Chaos units/heros/Lords for my Khorne themed army. Regardless whether I'll be able to keep playing with all of it, it'll still be fun to build/paint.
It will definitely be a main title wth. It's The Warhammer that began it all. Forgeworld might do some big centerpiece models like previously but not the whole armies.
no matter what happened. Im still hype for TOW.
I'd like to know the real story on playing old armies in ToW. Remember how at first in AoS you could use all your old stuff? Gradually, the old models were either discontinued or outclassed by the new Battletome factions. In the latest GHB, vast swaths of the old warscroll factions are now no more. At the end of the day, GW doesn't make money from people bringing 20 year old armies to the game. For my High Elves, will I be able to play them on Day 1 of ToW's launch? Will all my old units be legal to play? What about other armies? A person doesn't want to wait years for The Old World only to find out that only a few factions are supported at launch. They don't want to be told to wait a year or so and *maybe* their favorite faction will be playable. They want to jump in on launch day and play!
Damn has it already been 4 years since Old World got announced? Time flies
4 years? It was announced in November 2019 so only about 2.25 years.
My biggest hope is that they scale it down a bit. 4e/5e was perfect in this respect - you'd start an army at 1000 points, and build it up to 2000, and eventually, to 3000. The "standard" army was 2000 points, and in that context, 1000 points was literally half your army, while 3k was your standard army plus reinforcements to make a large army, for a large battle. Personally, I found 1500-2000 points to be most fun, because you had to make some concessions to assamble your force, instead of just cramming every cheese you could think of into the roster.
When 6th came along, not only did it push toward larger games, putting 2000 points on the low end, and pushing 3k as the "new normal", going up to 4k, but also the point value of individual units went down across the board, which meant your old army wasn't even worth as many points as it was before, and you constantly needed to expand. Instead of focusing on tabletop environments, people were too busy expanding their armies to keep up (and leaving new players in the dust, as it became more, and more difficult to even get started when you needed twice as many models as before); the result was playing with ever bigger armies on badly mismatched battlefields with bare bones terrain.
Umm my experience was different. 6th edition had 2000 points as the norm pretty much in every tournament here, some went up to 2250 but never did I saw 3000 point tournament.
@@cmxpiipl tournaments have to be resolved in a reasonable amount of time, so playing 2000 points was good. Still doesn't change the fact that units that used to cost 13-16 points per model in 5th, were 10 points per model in 6th, and GW did keep pushing 3k games constantly with their WD battreps.
@@jakubfabisiak9810 unm actually quite many units cost even more in 6th than 5th. Example warhawk riders base cost from 30 to 40. Archers 11 to glade guard 12. Waywatchers 18 to 24. Scouts 16 to 17 etc.
@@cmxpiipl but then you also had limits on magic items, so instead of taking a 75 standard, your regiment was now limited to taking a 25 point standard. Heroes could take 100 points of magic items total, when you used to have 100 point magic items in 5e, so heroes suddenly were losing close half their point value.
Great video. I did notice on the announcement post they specifically said that they had not been working on anything yet, only the logo. So I doubt they started working on anything before they announced it, but rather started after they announced. Either way, great informative video on the rumors. Keeps me up to date. GW rumors have been pretty spot on as of yet (at least for 40k).
They usually say they arent working in anything when in fact they have been it's a weird thing they do I guess it's to keep people from asking daily about iy
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges ahh ok for sure. Didn't know this. Thank you.
Oldworld is the only set I look foreward to buy a model from
Nathan it's great to see you going back to covering tabletop lore and rumours of the Old World and thanks for calling me a fossil, as long as the Tomb Kings get a good reworking I'll be happy.
I'm not buying anything directly from GW until they act like a company I would want to support. They have had lots of complaints from UA-camrs that GW fucks with them for making content. It just makes me feel like they don't even respect the fan base. IDK I could be wrong about GW but I cant justify buying models and rule books just for them to act like pricks. Plus I can save hundreds of dollars!
I may be able to help with that
@@Utgarman I'm listening
@@PoorManatee6197 I'd sooner not promote such legally dubious behavior on Nathan's channel, but there are certain Russian or Chinese sources...
@@Utgarman Oh I know about them, but sometimes they dont have what I want :(
I am seriously considering investing in a Bretonnian army. I love playing them in Total War.
I still believe that the first Army v Army box will be Bretonnia vs Tomb Kings/Khemri. There are two things that I would like to see though first is an actual Chaos Cultist Army list and mini's the second may be a lot of work but go back to 5th in allowing us to use Magic Items. Finally if we get a new Gorbad Ironclaw mini can we get multiple special characters from that war then, base it along the lines of the Idol of Gork senario box from 5th and release some new mini's alongside it. Also bring back the Regiments of Renown.
approximately around this time frame Khemri attacked Norsca '.'
@@Marcusjnmc Yeah but the idea for that starter set was to have the 2 abandoned armies be showcased first.
really hope we can get some updated models for skaven
total war got me into fantasy I was crushed when i found out it was already dead I fell In love with the vampire counts an I'm planning on getting mannfred at some point but I'll sell my soul to the Dark gods for a new vlad model
My thoughts,
Cursed City has a kislevite vibe and they say that expansions are coming for it. Since they've done a bunch of design work on kislev already I think there is a good chance that kislevite models will start to be introduced as part of Cursed City.
Humans were notibly absent from the Cities of Sigmar starter boxes. This makes me think that they were at least planning on doing a redisgn on humans or they could easily have stuck a couple of sorts of state troopers and a few other things in a box and sold it along side the elves and dwarves. Since humans were in the Dominion teaser and the Crusades are prominent in the abusing resently I am expecting new human models soon fur age of Sigmar (I kinda think that pair of witch hunters were intended to be part of something larger as well). Whether it'll Ulfenkarn/Kislev style humans or something else I don't know
Another thought, humans from Gur may easily be given an older Germanic look which could mesh well with an older period in the Empire.
Regarding cursed city expansions, I suspect we’ve already seen most of the contents already as part of the Soulblight Gravelords release and the father & daughter duo of Witch Hunters. If Blackstone Fortress was any indication as well there will likely be some cheapo expansion that adds some of the EtB nighthaunt units given there’s a ghosty district of the city.
I do hope that Bretonnians get loads of love
Got my brets ready. I just hope we get some really cool novels from fantasy again
I'm debating if I should be buying and painting Bretonnians now or wait and see if they change their look? I also don't want to buy a unit that doesn't end up in their new army list.
@@bigbake132 They'll probably have an identical "look" I imagine they'll do what they've done with modern 30k/horus heresy and up the scale. But otherwise I love the model lines, keeps painting interesting since you'll be doing unique coloring for each knight
@@CyrodiilCome So the old figures will probably be smaller than the new ones they come out with?
@@bigbake132 probably but we don't know for sure
I still say GW should make a digital table top version.
.
Given GW don't even want people to comment on AoS content they release, I wouldn't be surprised if Old World did well it could bump off AoS.
Back when I started in 6th edition the Chaos army books were Hordes of Chaos (Mortals/Demons) and Beasts of Chaos. So they were definitely called that back in the day. I think you could take beastmen in the Hordes of Chaos book too, with mortals, beasts and demons in one army.
If only they didn’t reboot Fantasy so they could have already have been making a profit off the massive revitalized interest in the setting because of the Total War games.
Better late than never I guess lol
Glad End Times happen and confirms Chaos has consumed countless worlds before Fantasy
True Grimdark
I can't see the Kharadron Overlords existing in Warhammer Fantasy and without them I wouldn't bother playing, plus I am not a fan of rank and file type games. So if they hadn't made AoS they wouldn't have gotten any of my money. Though I play the crap out of TW.
I'm surprised Lizardmen aren't considered an Order race in this video's predictions. Aren't they supposed to be one of the most Order-driven races in the setting, given their rigid adherence to how the Old Ones believed their world should be?
6th edition Beastmen book was "Warhammer Armies: Beasts of Chaos"
Yup forgot about 6th honest mistake as legit nobody in my scene played Beastmen 😅
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges Sadly I think your experience may have been fairly universal.
Index books may also open the door for proxies, like Perry's Brother's 100 year we kits for the Britonisns. So they could have a very lively game without ceasing their own models. Of course that means list possible sales...
Yeah Perry Brothers and Highland miniatures are fantastic imo. I'm glad they're there as an option just in case GW make a mess of Bretonnian and Empire sculpts (assuming they actually update the Empire troops).
Just to point out the WHF 6th Edition Beastmen codex in the UK was called Beasts of Chaos.
I'd love some new khorne models, always love my boys in red
I just hope that when Games Workshop releases new/updated models, they keep them at 28mm scale instead of the move to 32mm like they're doing with everything else. Oh, and bring back Battalions baby!
15:55 Well, from vengeful wishful thinking, clearly. And yeah, the launch version of Age of Sigmar was utter trash, but both the crunch and the fluff have come a long way since. Either way, I wouldn't want to take anything away from anyone else; I just want back the Old World. And not only am I getting that, but arguably in its most interesting era (at least as far as the Empire goes) and with expansion teases already for some of the many neat factions we had never gotten to play before. It'll be even more of a challenge to decide on which to get. If it weren't for the inevitable price tags, I'd want them all. Fingers crossed for a Mordheim relaunch right on its heels.
I really wanna play Warhammer the old world, I never played Warhammer fantasy battles (since I got in too late) and I hope I can play the factions they have put in the TW: Warhammer games (especially Kislev and Cathay I love their art)
I honestly think that they will do the First Vampire War before the First Great War Against Chaos.
In regards to them not properly play testing them, the AOS dragons where undercosted on launch. Not so much an issue if you take a unit or two of dragons, more if you took an whole army.
Here is something I am wondering about, my local GW shopkeeper seems pretty sure that Old World is gonna be a Forgeworld Product, any thoughts about this?
There have been, for a couple years now, persistent, non-sourced rumors, that Forgeworld will at some point in the future no longer be as independent from GW as it has been, and that HH will become a main line GW game, and the current FW team will be placed in charge of GWs secondary games (Not AoS, 40k or possibly HH) and projects.
If this is the case ToW falling under forgeworld makes sense.
As I said though, there is no source to these rumors, just ones I see discussed in multiple circles very often.
Iirc when first announced it was going to be the project worked on once HH was wrapped up in about three years time (so, now-ish, likely a bit longer given the various hurdles that have emerged since 2019). Which would indicate FW’s specialist games team taking charge.
I've been wanting to get into the Warhammer world on tabletop as my first introduction to everything Warhammer was Total War. Should I wait until Old World comes out or is there a better way to get into the tabletop. My biggest fear is that I won't have anyone to play with but I also haven't researched local game stores and if they frequently play tabletop games or not. What do you guys think?
If you can find cheap models for your army of choice rn. I'd buy before the game comes out because the price will be lower
No studio annonces something they havent started working on. Looking at Betesda and tos6
I just want mordhime and war master back
Hey Nathan don't you want to react to the new vermintide 2 trailer or at least talk about it? I'd really like to hear your opinion. Anyways happy new year already!
A new trailer dropped? I've just woken up lol
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges ah ok lol I'm not sure if you've seen it but it's the new career
I want nippon please
Andy hall said on stream with Nathan that they have already Cathay rule book
I don't see ind/khuresh happening on tabletop, chaos also attacking the great bastion during old world, chaos dwarves being active, ogres existing, I see all these as possibilities in the setting around the time of that great chaos invasion, we know that when the winds of chaos swell chaos gets more active everywhere, not just in 1 location, so increased assaults on the bastion also makes a lot of sense, irrelevant(to the events elsewhere) far south east stuff, less likely to ever feature
We have seen people make literal 3D prints of the Total War Warhammer models, I imagine they would make some of that themselves, would buy a Grom The Paunch if I can use it for tabletop / AoS
Some of that? ALL OF IT! Cue in lightning and evil laugh
At some point I'd like the basic saurus warriors to get new models. I think for what they are on the lore the models are a bit too skinny.
Having multiple timelines and a true multiverse in Warhammer they should make the Old World as an alternative reality in which its fate isn't going to be the same as the one of the End of Times. In this way you could include units of Age of Sigmar in their tabletop and Warhammer III as invocations from the Winds of Magic.
I'm really hoping they bring monogods to TOW.
Andy hore did the something like the indexs when necromunda came out and he was in charge of that then so i reckon that's 100% true 👍 I just hope they give us some more news 🙏 and they should start made to order soon really I need high elf silver helms and dragon prince's 😁
And great video thanks
Orcs make more sense in the neutral book so they are likely off here
NIPPON BANZAI!
That is all.
I have a problem with the old world, on the one hand I would love to play it, and do want to start this as the first real miniatures game I've played, but GW is such a shit show that I don't want to support them, but also I know if I don't support them that they will are the game off and there is almost 0% chance they bring it back
Is this going to be a Forgeworld thing or something GW puts on their main page?
Some rumours suggest FW
But it has been a constant rumour that FW will be less independent than it historically has been
@@mk_gamíng0609 I am relatively new to the hobby. Can you tell me why does Forgeworld even exist?
@@yanomamo89 to make models of stuff GW doesn't think will sell as much. Or to make things out of resin for greater detail as far as I can tell.
@@samuelansin8307 Good to know.
The old world possible new faction mono-gods hob-goblins (half orcs/ Centaurs) kislev and Cathey ,Chaos Dwarfs.
:)
Would be cool! Centaurs especially!
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges but mostly as hob-goblin unit not a unique faction another thing I think Cragnos might just be an evolved Centaur since if you look at their lore Cragnos only is that big because he has become a god by stealing artifacts from other races.
Hoping for Snakemen and the return of DawiZhar.
I hope they put some real thought into the Chaos dwarfs
I remember in Fantasy Chaos dwarfs were just Dwarfs but better.
If you wanted to play Dwarfs but could afford CD, you would play CD as they just perform better in every single way and more than normal Dwarfs.
There a literal case of "Anything you can do I can do better and more"
-Just as good frontline
-Good range units
-Better artillery
But they also have things that Dwarfs straight up dont get
- Expendable chaff units (Hobgobbos)
- Monsters
-Magic
- Cavalry
What we're the big differences between 7th and 8th editions? I NEver played tabletop but have started collecting to learn AoS and Old World.
should be due an update soon
Any lizardmen rumors
Can someone pls explain what is warhammer the old world?? I have no idea. Tabletop game or what?
Tabletop. It's to AoS the same way The Horus Heresy is to 40K.
Tabletop it's the revival in a sense of Warhammer Fantasy :)
Ohhh. Thank you both
Even if GW made a 8th ed style core book, well "WarhammerArmiesProject" their 9th ed was better. But really GW had cut down on and basically abandoned templates.
And from a hard review of what caused Warhammer Fantasy to fail i can summerize the whole thing in two words.
Unit Trays, basically the model line and difficulty moving models seemed to be the #1 thing that kept players away, particularly when 40k had over 20 times better marketing, meatier models with more detail and more people and publications showcasing them, and less need to buy extra stuff that you can't change later to fit a change in playstyle.
If GW wants Old World to be a success they need to address the model issue, because And I'm saying this as someone who'd rather shot themselves with buckshot in the balls rather than subject myself to the netlisters and toxic assholes that make up my nation of France sized play area of AoS. AoS's approach to units and model scale is far more successful than Fantasy's...that's about the only thing abiut AoS GW did right, everything else has been patch after patch or retcon after retcon so all my complaints somehow aren't valid even though they're all things that have been and still are major issues.
I'd like to see oval bases.
There could be leadership benefits for staying in formation vs the ability to maneuver.
As for writing rules for a faction of normal humans: Take normal humans, and add the fantasy on top.
Case in point: Nippon armybook
Special choices: Ninja and Swordsaints. Samurai and Dragon Ghosts (Divine Wind) as Rare.
Give them a new Lore of magic.
Ez Pz.
Weren't the 6th and 7th edition Army Books labeled Beasts of Chaos? I feel like at the very least 6th edition was
Yep Beasts of Chaos and Hordes of Chaos and they were both mixable, with just the general affecting which of the units were core, special and rare. Also you needed beast general with ambush rule to utilize ambush on the other beastmen units that had it.
JUST GIVE ME N'KARI!!!!
AoS has been a fever dream of a bad diarrhoea episode. The Old World is the Imodium stopping GW from explosively shitting on us. All hail the old world. All hail Imodium.
?? The fact that AOS has been a good success suggests your wrong.
I for one would disagree with this. I never would have spent a penny on WF but I have bought an army for AoS. I also won't be spending anything on The Old World I am just here for curiosities sake.
No point getting upset. It’s happening, GW can’t sell the AoS IP as it’s trash. So their brining back the old setting that’s bankable. :-)
@@FluteGnome not sure if you meant me or not but I am not upset. If they keep be th systems hurray, if they get rid of AoS then that would be disappointing but all it would mean is they would only get money from me for my 40k army instead of two armies.
I like the table top figures but I'm.not into buying them. I like the lore behind Warhammer though.
8th edition core sucked. It was in every way inferior to 7th edition.
>Empire (Free cities update) vs warriors of chaos (new chosen or woch with weapon options)
>Kislav (Free cities) vs Khorn ( an update for AoS khorne, Khornbeast would be nice)
>Welve (wonder if the new welfes model will be added to free cities or fully made into sylvaneth second wave? Also Khurnot hunters, spite and Revenants as Treekin army for wf welves, I mean they always looke like recycled 9th edition army update for welves treekin. Orion brought back to life in AoS?) vs Beastman (lol as if they ever get updated models)
>Greenskins (so, if savage orcs get update it means update for AoS, but will new orc boyz get rules in AoS when kruelboyz technically took over their role? Also, kruelboyz in wf as not!Halforcs, whom I once red were from spores grown up from dead humanoid corpses but that must had been fan made up)
>vampire counts (already get updated released in AoS with soulblights, need only characters)
>skaven vs lizardman (both need massive model update, both playable in AoS)
>helves (still part of free cities or souped with lumineth?)
>delves (Daughters of Khaine second wave, will Morathi get WF model with pegasus? Will be Melusai and Khinerai added to delves wf army? What about shadow elves? Khainite Shadowstalkers look like elite Shades)
>Dwarves (if playable in AOS, part of Free cities or souped with Fyreslayers and Kharadron into new faction?)
>Bretonia (I often joke, that GW will turn grail knights into "the real medieval space marines equivalent with punk medieval aesthetics," stormies on suicide watch. Again will they be part of Free cities?)
>Gloomspite (Nigh goblins having their own faction army in WF? GW had admited they had planned to give all goblins faction their own armies and aos gloomspites like many aos armies feels like recycled ideas for WF 9th edition)
>Ogers (update for Oggors) vs Cathay (Free cities will get more bloated than stormcast at this point)
that should be all. I hope this will open people eays to finally understand OW will be much bigger for AoS than marines getting new FW verhicles. I had listed up only faction that both exist in WF and AoS. or have model synergy ("recycled WF 9th editions.") Will that mean that GW will prioritize these faction over AoS original factions (Stormies,Ossiarch, Kharadron)?
EDIT: I think a big indication for AoS and WF:OW synergy will be chaos dwarves. If they are a full new thing like Kruelboyz and Lumineth, I dont think GW will push the synergy much. But If they are OW chorves in AoS, the possibility is there.
They could also make Kislev and Cathay their own faction in AOS (which I would hope) and put a return of the dragon emperor and his children in AOS. The free cities are going to get bloated if they add Kislev, Cathay, Bretonnia and dwarves
Warhammer the old world is so far the only thing new on the warhammer horizon I'm interested in. AoS is just stupid, warhammer fantasy is over, and 40k is going in a kind of dumb direction. As far as the lore goes, I'm genuinely interested in seeing what they do with the old world, as long as they don't end up like Kislev in total war warhammer with idiotic fantasy elements where it's supposed to just be historical units.
I don't play total war, but I'm not sure what you mean "it's supposed to just be historical units". No faction in Warhammer Fantasy is just historical units. The word "Fantasy" is right there in the title of the game.
@@GoatTheGoat yeah... no the base of it is historical units in the lore, as far as the humans go. Historical infantry, cavalry, artillery (for the most part) with some magical and fantasy elements added on.
Kislev in total war has nearly every unit some magical ice shit on it, and it's ruined for me.
I can't listen to you. It's three not free, it's thousands not founsand.
When GW announced Old World I'm pretty sure they had literally nothing. You're deluded if you think GW didn't start "Old World" purely for copyright purposes. You know this deep down. If you don't use your IP you lose it. At some point maybe they realised Total War might allow them to make money and they've finally realised how to make the best of Total War... but that's a bad thing imo. Originally I bet you anything Old World was basically two dedicated people in the basement told to make a game so that Gdubs can protect their IP: but they put their back into it and produced the best ruleset they could. Then GW decided, via Total War, to interfere, ruining any chance we had of an actual good game $$$.
GW only thought up Old World to protect their expansive - superior - Warhammer Fantasy IP. Somewhere along the road they realised they can tap that Total War fanbase I guess, thus the nonsense Kislev preview we got which looks about as bad as the faction in the actual Total War 3 game. Very Age of Sigmarish. Bad news.
1st!
FOR SKARBRAND TO EVISCERATE!
SKARBRAND HATES ATTENTION HOGS!
@@CommanderBohn I'm doing it mostly for Nate's algorithm.
fossils...
Someone can't take a joke ;)
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges i was being sarcastic your supposed to like my comment fml
I have miniatures older than some people alive today, so yes I'm a proud fossil.
Old word will be woke wannabe WoW so who cares.