**POST COMMENTS NOTES** Thanks to some of the very useful and informative pointers in the comments I've run a few more tests and thought I should add these notes: 1. The RD-9 kick is much more punchy if played individually like I do here if you hot TAP/HOLD - just hitting the BASS pad results in much less attack. This is why it sounds fine when played in the pattern but more muffled when played individually 2. The TR909 sounds marginally brighter when played via the individual outputs. It doesn't change the overall results here, but slides it a little more to a brighter sound. Marginal but it's there. 3. Summing the TR909 to the main output has another effect on the overall tone - not just brightening - it seems to give it a little more body... or something. Again, it doesn't change thew overall conclusions in here, but you can get slightly different tones for each sound from the same machine! So once again thanks everyone. TR909 Separate Outputs ... plus other corrections ua-cam.com/video/A8X8VDy_5os/v-deo.html
What do you mean by baked in subs? Funny, I was "watching" while driving in the truck, and it was an interesting experience because I could really hear the difference on some brighter elements. And then, it just... stopped. Thought it was the crap mobile network. For a change, not. 😂
@@irtnycoops! they were on the video so couldn’t be removed rather than having the option to view them on UA-cam. I create them when making the video (automated not typed!) but have to remember to turn them off when rendering, then save as a separate subtitle file and upload that as well.
Having owned a 909 and have a RD9 in a shared studio, I can safely say that the RD9 sounds really good out of the box. The 909 kick always needed lots of EQ and comp to make it sound great but the RD9’s kick sounds great without any. It’s a big thumbs up for the RD9. FYI I also have a TR8s and that thing is great fun and sounds really pretty spot on too
Sooooo, my view as an owner of an OG TR-909 since the early 90s. They DO sound different. However great music can be made with these excellent fraction of the price emulations. No matter hardware or VST or hell even Tape 909 sample pack. Id rather listen to a superb track with a lesser sounding 909 clone than an original 909 that has been programed terribly in a terrible track. No dance floor will ever empty if a superb track uses clones. Make great music with what you got! This is the spirit of house. GAS is the antithesis of the spirit of house.
I recently got an RD-9 and I really enjoy it. I won't even comment on the sound since that's all down to personal preference but I get a ton of use out of things like the step and note repeat functions especially during live jamming. That alone would probably make me not consider an original or TR-09 now
@@Stratimus i have the TR-09...i dont like the sound...but the positive thing is that is small..it has batteries and you can bring everywhere and spend time with it...i work as taxidriver and i enjoy a lot with my headphones. There a lot of people that they perform live and and is so easy to carry it.
TR-909 has static lowpass filters on outputs, that were there mainly to get rid of high pitch digital noises comming out from the machine. TR-09 got rid of that feature and Behringer seems to have followed same guideline.
Great detail. They are all good the 909 sounds very different on the kick than mine did. I use rb338 as well as the Toms are very good. Interesting review thanks for the upload.
Very nice Starsky. Would have liked to have seen the TR-8S in there as well as folks have said that the "pro" machines have an upgraded sound to the "consumer" versions of the ARIA implementations.
It’s the same ACB tech as the 09, so I wouldn’t think there’d be too much difference. It might have more headroom, or be even cleaner, but probably not a dramatic change in tone. I suspect it would be extremely subtle if at all noticeable tbh.
@@StarskyCarr Thanks. This is actually the reason why I am curious. I've read in a number of places that the "pro" versions are different. Still I agree it is very likely to be subtle like most of the differences you found with these three.
@@chokocat9064it’s likely to be more headroom and higher signal to noise ratio. ie you don’t need to crank up the input signal on an interface/mixer which would further increase the noise. So a better output gives less noise on its output and less is added in the input to the mixer.
@@StarskyCarr Mostly I see it in comments comparing the System-8 to the smaller boxes, but I would expect if the Sys-8 is running something better, maybe because it has more DSP available, then it would follow that the TR-8S would as well. I really appreciate that videos you make comparing the gear. It is all very interesting, and rather difficult to find this level of quality information.
The TR909 main out has a gentle LPF at around 7khz that's why some samples sound 'wrong' cos they are sampled from the individual outs, could you do a video with each sound on the OG out the mixed than the individual?
I can mostly just here the low pass filter or lack thereof in the new clones. Which is easy to add in post (though most people probably use individual out on the 909). Once you are starting to eq each drum out all 3 seem great. Obviously live is where the main outputs are important
The RD-9 is based on Revision 2, which is generally agreed to sound the best. It's mostly noticeable on the rimshot, which on later versions is "more realistic" and doesn't sound as good.
Where did you get that info? Behringer themselves told me something different. I’m not saying you’re wrong btw just wondering why they would tell me otherwise.
@@StarskyCarr It's possible it's a mix of different revisions, but they definitely did not implement the revision 3 rimshot change. That difference is very clear, the RD-9 has a lower frequency rimshot than a Revision 3 or 4 TR-909. They may have implemented the other changes in Rev 3 and 4, I can't hear the difference between a sampled Rev 2 and my Rev 4 on those, they seem subtle. It's possible it's more obvious if you have a real Rev 2 to compare with. I made a few videos on the sound differences a few years ago, the "Results are in" video goes through the revision changes in detail.
Good video bud, I have the RD-9, I think in a mixed track you would never know what was playing. But from a performance aspect who wouldn’t want a real 909 :😊
Nice to see the TR8 get a mention, ACB technology with scatter function too. Mine has expansions installed too, they were going to do a CR78 expansion but it never materialised. It sounds great though. Good fx, 8ch usb card, in fact you just inspired me to plug it in tommorow and have a play 😂👌 incidentally, I thought the RD9 sounded better than Roland own clone.. Great video 👍
I think the TR sounds like a sample pack with baked in processing. You can’t really undo that extra beef and top end hype so I prefer the Behringer as I think with its separate outs and less processed sound it can be sculpted. I would be happy with either and of course the original but that is inobtanium. Excellent video.
If only there were some device, that had gain, level controls and eq on it, per channel that you could use, and then sum the channels to a group, and label that group "TR909" or "Drums" or something, and then send that to a master output.
The ACB on the TR-09 isn't simply static samples that have audio processing on them. They are far more dynamic than that. What you are hearing is the main out of the 909 which has a built-in LPF that its individual outs do not have, never mind that the 909 has most certainly dulled over time AND it sounds like he has the compressor engaged which it shouldn't be in an A/B. Further, the TR-09 is multi-channel audio over usb, so yes indeed you can EQ them to your heart's desire (again no real need to since they sound much closer to the individual outs of the 909). I'm no Behringer hater as I have most of their synths, have the RD-8 (2) and RD-9 as well. More often than not the TR-8S is more convenient for me and sounds just as good.
Thanks for clarifying. To get separate outputs does it have to be set as the audio interface or is there a streaming plugin like the Digitakt has? Likely Starsky will have to revisit this video . Much appreciated.
@@scottharris7222 No small point you are making here. Yes, it's audio interface (gawd, I love my Elektrons). Mac handles multiple audio interfaces seemlessly, but Windows does struggle. On windows you CAN make an aggregate audio interface with ASIO4ALL, but in the real world it's not the same thing as true multiple as on Mac. This is one rather major boon to using Mac over Windows. Regardless, the audio interface implementation on Windows does at least allow you to record your individual parts which cuts down production time but not a solution for any real-time jamming, tweaking with multiple devices.
@@alexwestconsulting I really wish Elektron would licence that technology . I run RME raydats here with several adat interfaces and I can run out of inputs with the multiple output synths and drum machines. Overbridge is amazing. I have run two applications and streamed the audio on the same machine using BlueCats Connector. It isn't perfect but it works. Something like that would be viable here. Open up a Daw or free vst loader and set it up to use the TR and then stream that audio over to your main DAW like Cubase.
I remember in the 80's the infamous but now defunct UK discount gear store 'Turnkey' had end of stock 909's on sale for £99 after the 707 replaced it. If you got Sounds, Melody Maker or NME music newspapers Turnkey would run small ads showing their latest deal every week. Damn I wish I had pulled the trigger! Also missed out on the bargain £99 Roland 707 synth guitar controller too.. 🤦
About the missing Attack/Punch on the RD-9 Kick: When manually triggering, you need to trigger it in combination with the „Tap/Hold“ Button on the left, otherwise you trigger a weak step, which is not only quieter but also different in character. At least that’s true for Enhanced Mode turned off. I did the same mistake and was quit disappointed with the RD-9 Kick until i realized this. On the Pattern you might programmed a Strong Step, thats why it sounds closer in the Mix. Possible? Try it and let me know if it works for you.
I like that 09 and RD-9 doesn't have lowpass filters on them. While HiShelf should mitigate the major difference in the brightness... Putting individual outs through some overdrive/compression pedals is much better idea ;) My RD-9 is summed to RNLA7239 for an extra punch and it's a really nice glueing effect. I just can't use 909 kick anymore without a lot of processing (to get that modern punchy sound that doesn't disappear under a bassline).
The TR-09 in my ears sounds basically like a 909 passed thru a exciter & EQ. Toms on 09 has more white noise... 09 Rim sounds played thru reverb/chorus... But for sure in a track mixed with other instruments with each part treated individually, they are probably indistinguishable... :)
I own two RD9's and I love them. Cant imagine life without them i use them in nearly everything I make. One I have all the channels hooked up to a patch bay where my drum machines get their own sub mixer, and the whole instrument sounds so much brighter than just running it out the internal mixer. It also is gets used as a MIDI to analog clock as well as the trigger outs for advancing sequencers all the time. The other I have hooked up to a MIDI multipad and I play it like a "normal" drumset. You can do spicy things like for a snare run the clap through a DS-1 and such.
Nice. I’m a big fan of the RD -9 and hope that comes across in this. Ok it’s not identical but so what? It’s close enough and has all the extras plus the price. An amazing piece of kit.
@@StarskyCarr oh for sure, a single 909 is worth probably half of what my total studio cost! i love having access to these sounds at a price i can afford, and like you said, in a mix nobody is going to know the difference.
I do have a problem with the snare of the RD-9, which I noticed when I compressed the hell out of it: I heard something sounding a bit too ‘sweet’ in the tail. So I compared it on a spectrum analyzer to my original 909’s snare: turns out the interval between the oscillators is completely different 😮 The 909 has the lower oscillator hitting an F and the higher one a C, aka a perfect fifth. The RD-9, on the other hand, has the lower oscillator hitting a G and the higher one a B, aka a major third. Not very apparent when you’re using the raw sound and you’ve got the noise masking the tonal element of the snare, but it might become more noticeable when processing. Put me off the RD-9 tbh (that and the infuriating song mode). Having said that, if I didn’t own the OG, I would be more than happy to use the RD-9, because it is great value for money. As is the RD-8, which I do use regularly because I’m not that fortunate to also own a TR-808 😂
It’s so different that it doesn’t really matter, the changes with different outputs are insignificant. And it doesn’t really matter overall as it sounds fine in a pattern.
My Boutique 09 has strange noise when I turn it on. I never even used it. Bought it brand new and never got to use it. The other day I turned it on for the second time and it had some helicopter sounding background noise. Any ideas? Thanks
Great comparison. Any idea if the USB Audio output is the same sound as the main output on the TR09? Or is there a decrease or increase in audio quality? Would love to know this as that would make a huge difference in a studio environment. Thx
I’ve not heard a difference tbh. It will be a minor difference if any, caused by DAC on both ends. I suspect the USB would be cleaner. Having said that the original is pretty dirty, especially out of the main output.
@@StarskyCarrthanks so much. Appreciate it. I am wondering how the connection of the USB potentially removes another AD/DA (in my case an Apogee Symphony) connections to the DAW. Would you happen to know if another AD/DA and TR09 USB can function in parallel where the sounds of the 09 are sent to DAW via USB that functions in parallel to say a Symphony? I hope I’m explaining myself clearly. Question being, can 09 send audio via USB while another ADDA is functioning for all other uses? Thanks!
@@clarencejeyofficialseems you’re asking if you can have multiple audio interfaces connected. I know you can in a Mac - create an integrated interface with your apogee and tr09 for example. Not sure about PC.
@ thanks so much. Appreciate your answer. I’ve seen you other comparisons as well and am wondering if you could have one desert island 909 machine or software to create and produce music, what would that be? Thanks again
Listening to this on my phone gives a rather clear difference regarding transient and the high end of the spectrum. I'd expect a simple qualizer would get you a long way in trying to get closer to this specific original, if that's your aim. I prefer the muffled high end of the original, but do appreciate the attack of the clones.
Some thoughts about this: The TR 909 is the original, no doubt about. The TR-09 sounds like a super TR 909, like on sterioids. Too much of all, in the mix you need limiter, compressor an equing, then it can sounds okay. In the end and thats my personal conclusion, the RD 09 sounds like a modern TR-909 not to much of all, perfect for the mix (use the single outs). Its for me the better TR 909 for the year 2024. #justmy2cents
If I'm not mistaken, regarding the TR-909 vs TR-09 Toms (and possibly other features), the TR-09 was based on a non modified first gen TR-909 while the 909 in front of you has the Toms update mod done to it. It sounds exactly like my TR-909 which has had all of the Roland updates. In fact, I kind of like the unmodded Toms of the 09 better.
I would never have thought that. I wonder why they went with the original … which was ‘improved’ over the years. I would defo have thought they’d have gone with the later.
@@StarskyCarr Well, I had seen a video on UA-cam about Roland's AIRA line and their new ACB tech. They were taking pieces from their museum to study so they could emulate the machine's circuitry and behaviour (I'm sure you're already familiar with this). Every piece in their museum, I'm presuming, would be a first generation model; barely used (if at all) and never been out in the field. With that being the case, none of those pieces that they've transformed into ACB versions would have had any updates. I'm just using logic - with a little bit of assumption - to come up with my conclusion. I've been trying to find that video so you could see for yourself but I'm not having much luck.
@@djretro83I remember that video but no idea what versions they’re using. The updates line and later models have were all performed in the factory ie not after market tweaks. Hence I’d expect them to use the ones that they thought were better.
@@StarskyCarr All I can say is, "Who knows." We could all speculate until the cows come home and never be correct in our assumptions. Or, we could email Roland in Japan and simply ask. ;-)
Why is the Behringer closer to the original than the Roland Boutique!? The original has analog charm and warmth that the Behringer is missing, but other than its 90% there.
Using the TR-09’s hidden gain, tuning and compression settings, you can get super close to your 909 like I did when comparing mine. I just need separate outs (which you can do with the USB out) but still use it when I need a quick pattern and just record it mono. I use the RD-9 more nowadays as I think the midi is really tight, especially when sequencing from my Cirklon. Just wish it had better velocity response like the 909. I keep hoping for a MKII as it is one of the only things missing that frustrates me along with the not very bright key LED’s and being unable to use that ‘wave designer’ filter on the separate outs . The RD-9 is excellent for the price though. At the end of the day they are all quite similar and nobody will notice it in a good mix.
Sold my tr09 kept the tr 909. Minijack out is really stupid. And usb i couldn’t t care less. I do use the trig out of the 707 808 and 909 a lot. Sometimes even with zero sounds from the machines. SO MUCH FUN not staring at a screen or display
Would be interesting to throw a D16 Drumazon into the comparison. D16's raw drums sound pretty close to my ears. My go to for drum machines these days (although dont own any TR type hardware)
@@cakesteak Yes. I enjoy random replies from bots, too. The thing that will really do your noodle in is that the single best kick drum you can get, is from the rimshot module of a Techstar Simmons knock-off.
They’re around £400 used in the uk - there’s a few in reverb/ebay - but yeah, there’s not lots around and those that have them tend to keep them for a reason!
@@StarskyCarr Yes, they have been available only for a short time, then discontinued (just like the OG ;), while TR-08 seems so have stayed in production. Ebay ("worldwide") only 2 TR-09 available: 500 EUR and 650 EUR.
Thanks for the video, Starsky! RD-9 snare's got more high end too, right? I don't like the snare on the 09 and RD, too bright. Those lower frequencies on the original do make the snare, in my opinion. Also never knew about the click/noise on the toms. Not for me, either. The toms on your 909 sound perfect.
Great video. You should have enhanced mode set to OFF on the RD-9 if you want to compare the kick with the TR-909. Pitch depth and pitch parameters on the RD-9 are affecting the sound with enhanced mode on. You can dial in the low pass filter and resonance on the RD-9 to take the brightness out of the high end, although this doesn't work on individual outs.
@@StarskyCarr Nope, there is no good reason for that, unless of course you're comparing the different outputs from the SAME machine. It creates an unfair comparison between different designs because that headphone circuit, even in a "clone" is going to be completely different! No one buys a $bajillion dollar authentic 909 for the headphone amp, so guess what, none of the clones have anything resembling that 40 year old tone killer circuit. Further, I don't care WHY, it ruins your comparison from the jump to even include it as a variable. It shows me how little you even understand variables, despite mimicking things you may have heard. Clearly your actual understanding of the concept is lacking. However, here is your chance to defend yourself. I'm not watching your video to find out what loophole you used to get the desired result you wanted in your flawed "competition". Is that enough?
@@mesasavagetrolling is an art… you need more practise 😂😂 watch the video and realise the main output has circuit that reduces the bass dramatically. There is a mod for this. If I used the main output it would be a completely unfair comparison, so I quite rightly made it sound better using the phones out. It has less volume than the main but my Apollo interface adds almost zero distortion and noise. Come back once you’ve learned a thing or 2 about either these machines or how to troll. Either way it would be more interesting than this nonsense 😢 Maybe actually watching the video would help…..
The Behringer and the 09 sound way too bright, as if they were made for modern production. The TR-909 is unbeatable in its timing, which is why it’s so funky. Also, the sounds don’t come together as well as in the real tr 909, but you can do great things with all the machines.
This highlights just how badly the TR909 sounds have been copied. The RD-9 and TR-09 don't actually sound anything like the real thing. Not saying they sound bad.
Here’s an update … the 909 is a bit beefier through the separate outputs TR909 Separate Outputs ... plus other corrections ua-cam.com/video/A8X8VDy_5os/v-deo.html
Yeah I was surprised at the difference in the high end. Someone has mentioned that the OG main outs deliberately limit the top end and via the separate outputs it sounds brighter.. I’ll take a Quick Look at that.
I got both the RD-9 and the TR-09. I dislike the TR-09 as it's knobs are very small. Only 1 mini jack output is crap also. It just feels like a cheap overpriced toy.
**POST COMMENTS NOTES**
Thanks to some of the very useful and informative pointers in the comments I've run a few more tests and thought I should add these notes:
1. The RD-9 kick is much more punchy if played individually like I do here if you hot TAP/HOLD - just hitting the BASS pad results in much less attack. This is why it sounds fine when played in the pattern but more muffled when played individually
2. The TR909 sounds marginally brighter when played via the individual outputs. It doesn't change the overall results here, but slides it a little more to a brighter sound. Marginal but it's there.
3. Summing the TR909 to the main output has another effect on the overall tone - not just brightening - it seems to give it a little more body... or something. Again, it doesn't change thew overall conclusions in here, but you can get slightly different tones for each sound from the same machine!
So once again thanks everyone.
TR909 Separate Outputs ... plus other corrections
ua-cam.com/video/A8X8VDy_5os/v-deo.html
Thank You ! ! !
This is better than 99% of movies these days.
Haha nice one. Appreciated. If only the bar was t set so low 😂👍
Hard facts!
@@andrewwebb604there’s more to come… did a little more digging after reading some comments 😊
I borrowed my 909 to Jeff Mills in our club in 2000. He signed it for me. I own it for 30 years!
i was born in 2000
I lent mine to Ritchie Hawtin in 1997.
@@RoyChartier great! we booked him already in his decks and DP4 tour.
This is a second upload... the first had baked in subs - sorry about that.
What do you mean by baked in subs?
Funny, I was "watching" while driving in the truck, and it was an interesting experience because I could really hear the difference on some brighter elements. And then, it just... stopped. Thought it was the crap mobile network. For a change, not. 😂
@@irtnycoops! they were on the video so couldn’t be removed rather than having the option to view them on UA-cam. I create them when making the video (automated not typed!) but have to remember to turn them off when rendering, then save as a separate subtitle file and upload that as well.
Note: The main outs on the TR-909 have a high end rolloff by design. The individual outs will sound less filtered.
seriously dude I love your channel, it's like ASMR for people with OCD.. can't get enouph
Its a testament to your presenting skills/awesome power of the 909 that this is like the 4th I've watched this!
Cracking video! 🎉
Wow, thanks!
Having owned a 909 and have a RD9 in a shared studio, I can safely say that the RD9 sounds really good out of the box. The 909 kick always needed lots of EQ and comp to make it sound great but the RD9’s kick sounds great without any. It’s a big thumbs up for the RD9. FYI I also have a TR8s and that thing is great fun and sounds really pretty spot on too
I really enjoy these comparisons/shoot outs you do. super interesting and entertaining. I always learn something. Top shelf sir.
Thanks.
Sooooo, my view as an owner of an OG TR-909 since the early 90s. They DO sound different. However great music can be made with these excellent fraction of the price emulations. No matter hardware or VST or hell even Tape 909 sample pack.
Id rather listen to a superb track with a lesser sounding 909 clone than an original 909 that has been programed terribly in a terrible track. No dance floor will ever empty if a superb track uses clones. Make great music with what you got! This is the spirit of house. GAS is the antithesis of the spirit of house.
Too true
Well said 👍
@@MLochMusic exactly 👍🏼 none of the X0X products were state of the art for their time. They were mostly neglected products that no one cared much for.
Amen, you funky drummer 🙏
I agree, except for the sample pack. You will lose that phasing between instruments, which is an essential part of the character.
Thanks Starsky - really great comparison - very accurate detail on all the revisions!
I recently got an RD-9 and I really enjoy it.
I won't even comment on the sound since that's all down to personal preference but I get a ton of use out of things like the step and note repeat functions especially during live jamming. That alone would probably make me not consider an original or TR-09 now
Yeah the RD9 has so much more. For live Jamming it’s by far the best.
@@Stratimus i have the TR-09...i dont like the sound...but the positive thing is that is small..it has batteries and you can bring everywhere and spend time with it...i work as taxidriver and i enjoy a lot with my headphones. There a lot of people that they perform live and and is so easy to carry it.
Love the nerdy reason to pick up an original 909! I myself am more of an 808 type, imitating the few interesting 909 sounds with synthesizers.
TR-909 has static lowpass filters on outputs, that were there mainly to get rid of high pitch digital noises comming out from the machine. TR-09 got rid of that feature and Behringer seems to have followed same guideline.
The Headphones out signal, is taken before Wave designer and Filter. hence the tonal diffference to mains
The main output also has a circuit to reduce the on/off pop which results in a reduction in the bass.
Great detail. They are all good the 909 sounds very different on the kick than mine did. I use rb338 as well as the Toms are very good. Interesting review thanks for the upload.
Interesting about the kick. As that’s a purely analog tone I bet there’s a whole load of variation out there.
Very nice Starsky. Would have liked to have seen the TR-8S in there as well as folks have said that the "pro" machines have an upgraded sound to the "consumer" versions of the ARIA implementations.
It’s the same ACB tech as the 09, so I wouldn’t think there’d be too much difference. It might have more headroom, or be even cleaner, but probably not a dramatic change in tone. I suspect it would be extremely subtle if at all noticeable tbh.
@@StarskyCarr Thanks. This is actually the reason why I am curious. I've read in a number of places that the "pro" versions are different. Still I agree it is very likely to be subtle like most of the differences you found with these three.
@@chokocat9064it’s likely to be more headroom and higher signal to noise ratio. ie you don’t need to crank up the input signal on an interface/mixer which would further increase the noise. So a better output gives less noise on its output and less is added in the input to the mixer.
@@StarskyCarr Mostly I see it in comments comparing the System-8 to the smaller boxes, but I would expect if the Sys-8 is running something better, maybe because it has more DSP available, then it would follow that the TR-8S would as well. I really appreciate that videos you make comparing the gear. It is all very interesting, and rather difficult to find this level of quality information.
The TR909 main out has a gentle LPF at around 7khz that's why some samples sound 'wrong' cos they are sampled from the individual outs, could you do a video with each sound on the OG out the mixed than the individual?
I think I’m going to have to 🤦♂️😀
Id be glad to hear in-deep thoughts about the mixdown channel. Wonder if there is some compression nonlinearities
Nice comparison, as always. While it's not a perfect recreation, I'm more than happy with my RD-9 - it does a good enough job.
I can mostly just here the low pass filter or lack thereof in the new clones. Which is easy to add in post (though most people probably use individual out on the 909). Once you are starting to eq each drum out all 3 seem great. Obviously live is where the main outputs are important
The clap sound on the 909 sounds so epic
The RD-9 is based on Revision 2, which is generally agreed to sound the best. It's mostly noticeable on the rimshot, which on later versions is "more realistic" and doesn't sound as good.
Where did you get that info? Behringer themselves told me something different. I’m not saying you’re wrong btw just wondering why they would tell me otherwise.
@@StarskyCarr It's possible it's a mix of different revisions, but they definitely did not implement the revision 3 rimshot change. That difference is very clear, the RD-9 has a lower frequency rimshot than a Revision 3 or 4 TR-909. They may have implemented the other changes in Rev 3 and 4, I can't hear the difference between a sampled Rev 2 and my Rev 4 on those, they seem subtle. It's possible it's more obvious if you have a real Rev 2 to compare with.
I made a few videos on the sound differences a few years ago, the "Results are in" video goes through the revision changes in detail.
Good video bud, I have the RD-9, I think in a mixed track you would never know what was playing. But from a performance aspect who wouldn’t want a real 909 :😊
Nice to see the TR8 get a mention, ACB technology with scatter function too. Mine has expansions installed too, they were going to do a CR78 expansion but it never materialised. It sounds great though. Good fx, 8ch usb card, in fact you just inspired me to plug it in tommorow and have a play 😂👌 incidentally, I thought the RD9 sounded better than Roland own clone.. Great video 👍
The CR78 only made it into the TR8S.
@@StarskyCarr yes, I felt betrayed by Roland, never bought Roland gear since 😏
I think the TR sounds like a sample pack with baked in processing. You can’t really undo that extra beef and top end hype so I prefer the Behringer as I think with its separate outs and less processed sound it can be sculpted. I would be happy with either and of course the original but that is inobtanium. Excellent video.
If only there were some device, that had gain, level controls and eq on it, per channel that you could use, and then sum the channels to a group, and label that group "TR909" or "Drums" or something, and then send that to a master output.
The ACB on the TR-09 isn't simply static samples that have audio processing on them. They are far more dynamic than that. What you are hearing is the main out of the 909 which has a built-in LPF that its individual outs do not have, never mind that the 909 has most certainly dulled over time AND it sounds like he has the compressor engaged which it shouldn't be in an A/B. Further, the TR-09 is multi-channel audio over usb, so yes indeed you can EQ them to your heart's desire (again no real need to since they sound much closer to the individual outs of the 909). I'm no Behringer hater as I have most of their synths, have the RD-8 (2) and RD-9 as well. More often than not the TR-8S is more convenient for me and sounds just as good.
Thanks for clarifying. To get separate outputs does it have to be set as the audio interface or is there a streaming plugin like the Digitakt has? Likely Starsky will have to revisit this video . Much appreciated.
@@scottharris7222 No small point you are making here. Yes, it's audio interface (gawd, I love my Elektrons). Mac handles multiple audio interfaces seemlessly, but Windows does struggle. On windows you CAN make an aggregate audio interface with ASIO4ALL, but in the real world it's not the same thing as true multiple as on Mac. This is one rather major boon to using Mac over Windows. Regardless, the audio interface implementation on Windows does at least allow you to record your individual parts which cuts down production time but not a solution for any real-time jamming, tweaking with multiple devices.
@@alexwestconsulting I really wish Elektron would licence that technology . I run RME raydats here with several adat interfaces and I can run out of inputs with the multiple output synths and drum machines. Overbridge is amazing. I have run two applications and streamed the audio on the same machine using BlueCats Connector. It isn't perfect but it works. Something like that would be viable here. Open up a Daw or free vst loader and set it up to use the TR and then stream that audio over to your main DAW like Cubase.
The 909 sequencer for external midi is great. Not many people talk about that.
12:20 honestly? I don’t care about that level of detail personally but I am glad an analysis of it exists because it’s interesting to watch for sure
Super watch thank you !!
I remember in the 80's the infamous but now defunct UK discount gear store 'Turnkey' had end of stock 909's on sale for £99 after the 707 replaced it. If you got Sounds, Melody Maker or NME music newspapers Turnkey would run small ads showing their latest deal every week. Damn I wish I had pulled the trigger! Also missed out on the bargain £99 Roland 707 synth guitar controller too.. 🤦
Spot on. Really good comparison
I know behringer catches alot of flak but i have to say, i really like the sound of the rd-9 and the enhanced controls are pretty rad
About the missing Attack/Punch on the RD-9 Kick: When manually triggering, you need to trigger it in combination with the „Tap/Hold“ Button on the left, otherwise you trigger a weak step, which is not only quieter but also different in character. At least that’s true for Enhanced Mode turned off.
I did the same mistake and was quit disappointed with the RD-9 Kick until i realized this.
On the Pattern you might programmed a Strong Step, thats why it sounds closer in the Mix.
Possible?
Try it and let me know if it works for you.
Interesting I’ll have a go.
See my pinned notes.. Thanks you were bang on.
@@StarskyCarr Great! Thanks for your channel, i‘m learning alot here!
A big problem of the RD9 is the missing Pattern Chaining functionality in Pattern Mode. The workflow is significantly different as well.
The best of the real 909 it´s the sequencer and the shuffle.
Would have liked to have heard the OG and TR-09 open hats.
They’re definitely in there somewhere. You have to press both hi hat buttons at the same time for the open - I even mention it’s a pain.
I like that 09 and RD-9 doesn't have lowpass filters on them.
While HiShelf should mitigate the major difference in the brightness... Putting individual outs through some overdrive/compression pedals is much better idea ;)
My RD-9 is summed to RNLA7239 for an extra punch and it's a really nice glueing effect.
I just can't use 909 kick anymore without a lot of processing (to get that modern punchy sound that doesn't disappear under a bassline).
The TR-09 in my ears sounds basically like a 909 passed thru a exciter & EQ. Toms on 09 has more white noise... 09 Rim sounds played thru reverb/chorus... But for sure in a track mixed with other instruments with each part treated individually, they are probably indistinguishable... :)
I enjoy the rd9 rd8 over all the others it’s just so clean compared to the others
Thx Starsky. Very helpfull
I own two RD9's and I love them. Cant imagine life without them i use them in nearly everything I make. One I have all the channels hooked up to a patch bay where my drum machines get their own sub mixer, and the whole instrument sounds so much brighter than just running it out the internal mixer. It also is gets used as a MIDI to analog clock as well as the trigger outs for advancing sequencers all the time. The other I have hooked up to a MIDI multipad and I play it like a "normal" drumset. You can do spicy things like for a snare run the clap through a DS-1 and such.
Nice. I’m a big fan of the RD -9 and hope that comes across in this. Ok it’s not identical but so what? It’s close enough and has all the extras plus the price. An amazing piece of kit.
@@StarskyCarr oh for sure, a single 909 is worth probably half of what my total studio cost! i love having access to these sounds at a price i can afford, and like you said, in a mix nobody is going to know the difference.
I do have a problem with the snare of the RD-9, which I noticed when I compressed the hell out of it: I heard something sounding a bit too ‘sweet’ in the tail. So I compared it on a spectrum analyzer to my original 909’s snare: turns out the interval between the oscillators is completely different 😮 The 909 has the lower oscillator hitting an F and the higher one a C, aka a perfect fifth. The RD-9, on the other hand, has the lower oscillator hitting a G and the higher one a B, aka a major third. Not very apparent when you’re using the raw sound and you’ve got the noise masking the tonal element of the snare, but it might become more noticeable when processing. Put me off the RD-9 tbh (that and the infuriating song mode).
Having said that, if I didn’t own the OG, I would be more than happy to use the RD-9, because it is great value for money. As is the RD-8, which I do use regularly because I’m not that fortunate to also own a TR-808 😂
The kick should have its own out, that’s really only way to get the truest comparison
It’s so different that it doesn’t really matter, the changes with different outputs are insignificant. And it doesn’t really matter overall as it sounds fine in a pattern.
My Boutique 09 has strange noise when I turn it on. I never even used it. Bought it brand new and never got to use it. The other day I turned it on for the second time and it had some helicopter sounding background noise. Any ideas? Thanks
Have you got a usb plugged in? They can add all sorts of noise. If do, try it without
909? My favourite!
Great comparison. Any idea if the USB Audio output is the same sound as the main output on the TR09? Or is there a decrease or increase in audio quality? Would love to know this as that would make a huge difference in a studio environment. Thx
I’ve not heard a difference tbh. It will be a minor difference if any, caused by DAC on both ends. I suspect the USB would be cleaner. Having said that the original is pretty dirty, especially out of the main output.
@@StarskyCarrthanks so much. Appreciate it. I am wondering how the connection of the USB potentially removes another AD/DA (in my case an Apogee Symphony) connections to the DAW. Would you happen to know if another AD/DA and TR09 USB can function in parallel where the sounds of the 09 are sent to DAW via USB that functions in parallel to say a Symphony? I hope I’m explaining myself clearly. Question being, can 09 send audio via USB while another ADDA is functioning for all other uses? Thanks!
@@clarencejeyofficialseems you’re asking if you can have multiple audio interfaces connected. I know you can in a Mac - create an integrated interface with your apogee and tr09 for example. Not sure about PC.
@ thank you!! Appreciate it very much! Great video again!!
@ thanks so much. Appreciate your answer. I’ve seen you other comparisons as well and am wondering if you could have one desert island 909 machine or software to create and produce music, what would that be? Thanks again
Cool video!
I have sampled many drum machines and even though you enter the BPM, the clocks are never the same. And will vairy by 0.15 to 0.26 of a bpn
True. This one is a fraction slow.
would like to hear a jomox airbase 99 get into one of these comparisons
I’d love to get my hands on one.
My Sequentix Cirklon + Airbase 99 combo blows the 909 out of the water. My 909 is long gone, no regrets 😊
@@arnevo1yes got the same set up.▶pretty addictive hey
Listening to this on my phone gives a rather clear difference regarding transient and the high end of the spectrum. I'd expect a simple qualizer would get you a long way in trying to get closer to this specific original, if that's your aim. I prefer the muffled high end of the original, but do appreciate the attack of the clones.
There’s a short section where I use a gentle EQ on the TR09 to bring it closer - b simple.
@StarskyCarr I'll be sure to check that bit out 👍
Some thoughts about this:
The TR 909 is the original, no doubt about. The TR-09 sounds like a super TR 909, like on sterioids. Too much of all, in the mix you need limiter, compressor an equing, then it can sounds okay. In the end and thats my personal conclusion, the RD 09 sounds like a modern TR-909 not to much of all, perfect for the mix (use the single outs). Its for me the better TR 909 for the year 2024. #justmy2cents
If I'm not mistaken, regarding the TR-909 vs TR-09 Toms (and possibly other features), the TR-09 was based on a non modified first gen TR-909 while the 909 in front of you has the Toms update mod done to it. It sounds exactly like my TR-909 which has had all of the Roland updates. In fact, I kind of like the unmodded Toms of the 09 better.
I would never have thought that. I wonder why they went with the original … which was ‘improved’ over the years. I would defo have thought they’d have gone with the later.
@@StarskyCarr Well, I had seen a video on UA-cam about Roland's AIRA line and their new ACB tech. They were taking pieces from their museum to study so they could emulate the machine's circuitry and behaviour (I'm sure you're already familiar with this). Every piece in their museum, I'm presuming, would be a first generation model; barely used (if at all) and never been out in the field. With that being the case, none of those pieces that they've transformed into ACB versions would have had any updates. I'm just using logic - with a little bit of assumption - to come up with my conclusion. I've been trying to find that video so you could see for yourself but I'm not having much luck.
@@djretro83I remember that video but no idea what versions they’re using. The updates line and later models have were all performed in the factory ie not after market tweaks. Hence I’d expect them to use the ones that they thought were better.
@@StarskyCarr All I can say is, "Who knows." We could all speculate until the cows come home and never be correct in our assumptions. Or, we could email Roland in Japan and simply ask. ;-)
0:40 They would have sounded different from factory "40" yrs ago....I know, we had 4 at the time....
Always quality from you. Appreciate this shootout.
Does anyone know why Roland stopped making the TR-09? It's such a perfect mini 909.
Cause Roland needs to release a new 909/808/303/101 clone every 5years to stay relevant & to be featured on Bad Gear.😋
Why is the Behringer closer to the original than the Roland Boutique!?
The original has analog charm and warmth that the Behringer is missing, but other than its 90% there.
I know it's fully digital but I can't help wondering how these would compare to the 909 drums on my TR-8s.
@@Vim-Wolf it should sound the same as the tr-09, i believe it’s the same emulation?
@ Now you say that I think you might be right, forgot the 09 was not analogue. Thanks.
Did you turn off the compressor on TR 09 Kick Drum ?
Yes
Using the TR-09’s hidden gain, tuning and compression settings, you can get super close to your 909 like I did when comparing mine. I just need separate outs (which you can do with the USB out) but still use it when I need a quick pattern and just record it mono.
I use the RD-9 more nowadays as I think the midi is really tight, especially when sequencing from my Cirklon. Just wish it had better velocity response like the 909. I keep hoping for a MKII as it is one of the only things missing that frustrates me along with the not very bright key LED’s and being unable to use that ‘wave designer’ filter on the separate outs . The RD-9 is excellent for the price though.
At the end of the day they are all quite similar and nobody will notice it in a good mix.
We got a Mkii RD8. A Mkii RD9 seems likely, at some stage …
Sold my tr09 kept the tr 909. Minijack out is really stupid. And usb i couldn’t t care less. I do use the trig out of the 707 808 and 909 a lot. Sometimes even with zero sounds from the machines. SO MUCH FUN not staring at a screen or display
Did you find the TR8 had the same timing as the RD-9 or does the TR8’s ACB tech make the timing more “loose” like the TR909?
I’ve nit looked at it tbh, but I don’t think the timing is emulated in the ACB clones, just the analog circuitry.
@@StarskyCarr I think that is correct. The sequencers in the newer machines are completely different.
Would be interesting to throw a D16 Drumazon into the comparison. D16's raw drums sound pretty close to my ears. My go to for drum machines these days (although dont own any TR type hardware)
Long life to the world wide web.. and the 909 ;)
... at least you have a table!
Way to keep enhanced mode on. I also enjoy comparing oranges to apples. Anyway, Nava Extra9 kills all of these.
And the Quasimidi 309 destroys the Nava. And it's not even analog. What's your point?
I hope things get better for you
@@cakesteak Yes. I enjoy random replies from bots, too. The thing that will really do your noodle in is that the single best kick drum you can get, is from the rimshot module of a Techstar Simmons knock-off.
@@damienthorn1340 yeah, not sure why he didn't have either of those in this 909 clone video.
Good luck finding a TR-09.
They’re around £400 used in the uk - there’s a few in reverb/ebay - but yeah, there’s not lots around and those that have them tend to keep them for a reason!
@@StarskyCarr Yes, they have been available only for a short time, then discontinued (just like the OG ;), while TR-08 seems so have stayed in production. Ebay ("worldwide") only 2 TR-09 available: 500 EUR and 650 EUR.
the clones sound more like a mixed 909
Thanks for the video, Starsky! RD-9 snare's got more high end too, right? I don't like the snare on the 09 and RD, too bright. Those lower frequencies on the original do make the snare, in my opinion.
Also never knew about the click/noise on the toms. Not for me, either. The toms on your 909 sound perfect.
😂 Might as well just take my Juno X 909 patches and sample them into the Force 😅
TR8S for me.
I prefer the TR8 for its simplicity, but the 8S is a great machine.
Those rim shots sound much cleaner on the original…
thanks! I prefer the TR-09 soundwise but i also like those individual outs.
I'd be happy with any of them but for space reasons the TR-09 fits the bill. Good video 👍
Great video. You should have enhanced mode set to OFF on the RD-9 if you want to compare the kick with the TR-909. Pitch depth and pitch parameters on the RD-9 are affecting the sound with enhanced mode on. You can dial in the low pass filter and resonance on the RD-9 to take the brightness out of the high end, although this doesn't work on individual outs.
I turned enhances on to try to get it closer. I initially had it off.
As soon as I saw you were using the headphone output for anything that wasn't headphones, I knew you had no idea what you were doing.
Did you even watch to see why?
@@StarskyCarr Nope, there is no good reason for that, unless of course you're comparing the different outputs from the SAME machine. It creates an unfair comparison between different designs because that headphone circuit, even in a "clone" is going to be completely different! No one buys a $bajillion dollar authentic 909 for the headphone amp, so guess what, none of the clones have anything resembling that 40 year old tone killer circuit. Further, I don't care WHY, it ruins your comparison from the jump to even include it as a variable. It shows me how little you even understand variables, despite mimicking things you may have heard. Clearly your actual understanding of the concept is lacking. However, here is your chance to defend yourself. I'm not watching your video to find out what loophole you used to get the desired result you wanted in your flawed "competition". Is that enough?
@@mesasavagetrolling is an art… you need more practise 😂😂 watch the video and realise the main output has circuit that reduces the bass dramatically. There is a mod for this. If I used the main output it would be a completely unfair comparison, so I quite rightly made it sound better using the phones out. It has less volume than the main but my Apollo interface adds almost zero distortion and noise.
Come back once you’ve learned a thing or 2 about either these machines or how to troll. Either way it would be more interesting than this nonsense 😢
Maybe actually watching the video would help…..
@@StarskyCarr Are you that dense?
The Behringer and the 09 sound way too bright, as if they were made for modern production. The TR-909 is unbeatable in its timing, which is why it’s so funky. Also, the sounds don’t come together as well as in the real tr 909, but you can do great things with all the machines.
▶️ exactly
behringer lol
This highlights just how badly the TR909 sounds have been copied. The RD-9 and TR-09 don't actually sound anything like the real thing. Not saying they sound bad.
Here’s an update … the 909 is a bit beefier through the separate outputs
TR909 Separate Outputs ... plus other corrections
ua-cam.com/video/A8X8VDy_5os/v-deo.html
The TR just sounds more muffled tbh.
For me the one with the best sound is the TR-09, the original TR-909 sounds duller and poorer, RD-9 is great .
Yeah I was surprised at the difference in the high end. Someone has mentioned that the OG main outs deliberately limit the top end and via the separate outputs it sounds brighter.. I’ll take a Quick Look at that.
@@StarskyCarr interesting, I will wait for you. Mine is on the tech, every 10 years a different sound dies and needs service.
I got both the RD-9 and the TR-09.
I dislike the TR-09 as it's knobs are very small. Only 1 mini jack output is crap also. It just feels like a cheap overpriced toy.