All these polygamy groups hiding behind Jesus. I'm not a Believer myself but if it turns out Jesus does exist I got a real mouthful for him before he dropkicks me to hell.
It was written that a dog attacked a five year old but the killing of the pets is one of the most horrible things I've ever read.They ran out of bullets so they shocked then to death.It could be heard throughout their community from up on the hill .I hate to even write this down but the extent of what goes on needs to be known.I'm glad to find your channel.This has led me to read the Bible and am almost done with the old testament😶The amount of animal sacrifice is seriously astounding
Exactly. I saw a video 'skit' the other day where an uncle was saying 'oh you shouldn't let your daughter dress so provocatively. She's too young to be dressing sexy like that'. And the dad chimes in and says 'if you think your under-age niece is being sexy, that sounds like a you problem and you better get the f out my house'. I feel like this should be way more normalised. If you think someone is being provocative or 'sexy' or whatever for wearing something obviously normal then it's a you problem.
@@alyssatew9748 There's been a definite sexualization of children in the past few decades. Perhaps that was what he was referring to. Also, an unhealthy trend.
There was a powerful pop-up exhibit in LA years ago displaying the outfits dozens of women were wearing when they were raped. The number of oversized sweatshirts and sweatpants was chilling. It doesn’t matter what a woman is wearing. She just has to exist.
I saw a video of something like this on UA-cam not long ago the amount of baggy clothing was a lot they even showed little girls clothing long dressed, little pajamas just normal children's clothing 😢 It don't matter what we wear evil people will do it anyway
"Was it my fault?" asked the skirt. "No, it happened to me too" replied the burka. The diaper in the corner couldn't even speak... 😢 @@CultstoConsciousness
My husband is not Mormon but he is a narcissist. My marriage was destroyed when he tried to brainwash me into believing multiple wives was “Godly” and having a second wife in the house would bring me honor. I let him go through and explain everything and then I left. I can never go back after that heartache. He has tried to be reconciled and say he doesn’t really feel that way but I will never feel the same about him. It’s disgusting to try and use God to manipulate women into allowing adultery right under their noses. I can’t imagine how hard it is to pretend you don’t care about sharing your spouse. Sex is sacred. Sharing your body with some one outside of your marriage is adultery.
I'm so glad you got out! ❤ my ex narcissist also wanted to bring another woman in the bedroom, yet not under the guise of religion. He did convince me that him needing to dress up like a girl in the bedroom was fine with God, along with completely ignoring my intimacy needs or my need to be known, seen, heard. 😢 I was a sex slave to him and I'm STILL healing....
Judith is so articulate, eloquent and insightful. I could listen to her talk all day. During her Linda Listen moment, I really appreciated her acknowledging how the struggles of people who have experienced trauma are different to those who haven't. I'm fed up of hearing podcast guests talking about how to change your life or whatever because those things are not within my grasp and it just make me feel even more "other". To hear Judith making this differentiation made me feel validated, and more accepting of my struggle and my not-okayness.
My struggle with depression and anxiety as a full time university student and full time worker led me to teaching ESL in Asia for six years. My current struggle with psoriatic arthritis and osteoarthritis has gotten me into boardgaming. I’ve met most of my current friends through boardgaming. I may not be able to stand or walk for long periods, but I can boardgame all day.
Sometimes, in some situations, all you can do is struggle to keep your mind free, and never judge others who are struggling to do the same to the best of their abilities. If you can’t help someone, at least refrain from adding to their burdens.
I find it interesting how cults so often revolve around a male leadership defining all the very restrictive ways in which _women_ must live and behave, and how they are to be treated by the men of the group. All the most serious restrictions apply to the women and children. Almost as if many cults are really all primarily _about_ the control and domination of women in particular.
I have so much admiration for people who manage to free themselves from these cults and controlling groups, and then turn their lives around and get an education. And my heart breaks for those who don't manage to do that, even though deep in their hearts they would like to, but are too stuck, too afraid.
Thinks for this! I'm a Portlander. My mom took us to OR to get away from the UT/ID LDS family. Your channel helps me understand my family better. I watch many of your interviews, but the LDS ones help the most.
The story about the library is the cutest thing. I can just imagine the excitement she had and it warms my heart. I was raised Christian and as I've gotten older the things I was taught were taboo and sinful now have such an innocence to them. Like being curious about boys and your anatomy are so innocent and precious growing up. Once you become an adult you realize how pure your intentions were. It breaks my heart that that experience is perverted for some children.
I feel so sorry for all those women who were pretty much held in reproductive slavery like that, being intentionally raised to have “being a wife and bearing as many children as possible” as their ultimate life goal and being expected to lay down for their assigned husband and carry baby after baby. Pregnancy is not easy on the body, and being practically forced into having child after child whether you want to or not is a very unique kind of taking someone’s opportunities away from them and physically restricting their life.
It's also a very unique type of torture for those women physically. Our bodies are not designed to have so many children and especially not any closer than two years apart. It takes our bodies that long to heal from pregnancy and giving birth.
@ArtandDiamondsWithEskies yes these people think they are "following God's will" etc but women aren't meant to be pregnant and give birth that frequently.
I dont have much to give unfortunately because I’m a college student but I just want you to know how valuable what you’re doing is. I’ve never been a religious person nor is my family but I’m very passionate about feminism and protecting women from these disgusting systems of power and practice. Thank you for giving these women a platform to share their stories each and everyone of them has moved me to near tears I hope all of them find the peace they truly deserve ❤ thank you again for everything you do
Jude, thank you so much for doing this interview. It's crazy how after 6 years of regularly looking into Mormonism after leaving it, I'm still learning so much. I'm currently working on a novel in which the FLDS manages to control a theocracy in a large portion of the US and this was very inspiring. Thank you and thank you Shelise as always for doing the interview!
Ill keep an eye out for your book. I've read everything I could get my hands on.Right now I'm reading a book by one of Brigham Youngs men who killed many for him until tossed away when no.longer useful.
I was caught by surprise as well. I had to take a little break and come back because I went to hug my kitties. I wonder if somebody decided to set some of the pets, free into the borders of the compound away because they just did not have the heart to put their own pets down.
I think there is a whole slew of cult leaders who owe God a BIG apology!!! Shelise, I love your interview style, you are so respectful of all sides, and I am hooked on your channel that I just found this week. Amazing and informative and I sincerely hope that your message will reach people who are thinking about joining a religious group. Head's up!!
Hey Shelise! I discovered your channel yesterday and I was immediately impressed by your listening skills, your questioning and your empathy for the people you interview. Religions and cults are for me, some of the most interesting topics to inform myself with out there - combine that with an intelligent, very self-reflective woman and you got yourself a new, very engaged, subscriber. :) Greetings from Austria ❤️
I was raised mainstream mormon and was only a member from 8-16 years old and never was involved I went on Sunday never more never less. I can’t imagine ever being trapped in a religion and I just found your channel yesterday and I’m hooked. I can’t believe how strong all your guest’s are.
SO brave to share your story Judith. I was raised Catholic and struggle with redefining my world without the confines of religion, but it’s NOTHING close to what you’ve been through! You’re an AMAZING woman! Excellent interview!
Listened to the podcast but had to peep in yet just to see the dress. Loved the spirit of Judith as a child/young woman. Fantastic. I would love a short clip published to just cover “ I said No! “ What an inspiration to share and show everyone the power of listening to your inner voice. All credit to Judith today for her courage and honesty.👍🏼💚👍🏼
I knew of Jude as my brothers were friends with her brothers. I was a very little girl so she probably doesn't remember me. I admire those that were able to take the courageous steps earlier on. I wasn't so lucky. I guess maybe what my son told me may be true, in some sense, that I have hurt myself by staying in that culture so long and being afraid to take the courageous steps at a younger age. I was placed in an arranged marriage to my step-dad at the age of 16. I'm now 36 and I've been out for about 3 years now. I stayed in, in hopes life would become easier and happy again as it was before my biological father died. I had a child by my step-dad who is now 17 years old, and he won't talk to me anymore. I thought my heart was already broken and hurt beyond repair, and now it feels shattered in a million pieces that I've been trying to piece back together. I've gone through some days that I don't know if it's worth going on. I hope I can go forward now and imagine the joyful happy life into existence. I don't know if my story could benefit anyone or if it will even heal anything for me, but I've enjoyed the content you have shared.
I am a stranger from the other side of the world but I congratulate you on your strength, vulnerability and dedication. You made it through and many of us reading your stories have only admiration and compassion for you.❤
Shelise, I'm so glad you started this podcast. You are an excellent interviewer and you have a way of bringing fresh insights out of topics that I've seen a zillion interviews about already.
Love this episode and can’t wait for the next one with Judith! I think I have an obsession with this topic, because I’m amazed at how much I can relate even having grown up mainstream Mormon. It’s incredible how, even though I grew up in the “outside world”, I still felt as though I was enclosed behind walls filled with fear. As if looking any further than what was I was told to see would damn my family and own eternal existence, causing so much internal turmoil when I began to question my faith. Very similar core affects. Yet, such an extremely different life.
I have fallen into this rabbit hole and don't want out. I have a new understand of High Demand Religions & realize some of the problems my family members are in. Knowledge is power and I appreciate you shining such a bright light.
I'm anxious to hear the remainder of Jude's experiences. I went through a phase of listening to all the books I could find about people who'd left FLDS. I highly recommend The Witness Wore Red by Rebecca Musser and Stolen Innocence by Elissa Wall. Also, Prophet's Prey by Sam Brower. They are all engaging, informational, and emotional.
Breaking free by Rachel Jeffs as well, his "favourite daughter" and victim. She got out with 6 children I think and has spent a lot of the time since trying to help other women leave
@@CultstoConsciousness Maybe speak to growing up in polygamy on youtube, Sam was raised FLDS but left at 18 and then recently both he and his wife left the mainstream LDS church
@@nickywal The only thing is, he is a male, he had a totally different experience than the girls/women did. This Cult practices patriarchy, the women are suppressed and have no say in anything of any importance. EDIT, I watch their channel, his wife was raised LDS, they married after he left the FLDS. He joined the LDS, then a little further along, they both left the LDS. She never experienced life as a part of the FLDS…
I, as well, have read all of the books that I could about the FLDS. Carolyn Jessop’s and Brent Jeff’s books are excellent. One thing that I have found, and consider very sad, is that the majority of those who were able to escape, have abandoned any form of belief in God. Most are now atheists.
Judith, you just exude peace and wisdom, and you share your story so beautifully. I literally couldn't believe part one was already over - I was completely caught up in your telling. I don't know if you still see the comments, but I hope you are well. Books were my only means of escaping the horrors that surrounded me growing up. Each one is still a dear friend. Thank you for sharing your truth.
I've been deeply enjoying your interviews! I've been jumping around the back catalog for a few days and I'm consistently impressed by your skills as an interviewer as well as the vulnerability your guests are willing to offer. If possible, I'd love to see you interview Elly of the channel Ex-Fundie Diaries! I think you both would have such a fulfilling, reflective conversation.
Thanks so much for such granular, detailed time stamps/chapters. I was too triggered to start at the beginning, so I started with “hairstyles.” Thanks especially for the “pets” heads up-I don’t think I can stomach hearing about that at all.
I just discovered this channel and i had a friend i used to be pretty close to who was ex-mormon and i never really understood the depth of it and her related trauma. It makes me feel like i wasn't supportive enough, i havent talked to her in a couple years when we both were battling our demons and PTSD. I just hope she's doing okay
Hi, Shelise! I am so engrossed in this video. The horror of having one's pets destroyed is ... well, unspeakable. I remember seeing several videos on the Bountiful, Canada compound. Ugh! All I could think back then, was, "Ugh! They expect young girls to be bedded by icky old men?!? YUCK!" And then, it was implied that these same older men, desiring only young wives, conspired to get rid of the young men because they were "competition"! Anyway, I got a small chuckle at 1:07:15 when Judith said, "...so, that's where the story gets interesting." I'm thinking..."Uh...you mean, even *more* interesting?!?" Going to go listen to Part 2 immediately after this! 💕
Every time I listen to your podcasts or Mormon stories, I am so thankful that my kids and myself are out of the cult and my grandkids are not being raised with the shame/purity culture and all the bullshit! Thank you for so much for all you do! Born and raised in Ogden, Utah🤣
I remember when they killed everyones pets, our pets in LeBaron were murdered by leaders too. My family had to hide TVs because if the leaders found out about it our TVs and VCR players were mysteriously broken. They would also turn off our gas so we couldnt cook or have hot water. The women and wifes would have to leave the house to fix the gas systems in our house, we'd then get kidnapped and raped again. We would hide in our locked homes, then theyd break in to steal our babies. We'd get our children back when we'd go bsck to church.
Thank You!🌷 for sharing this. I am interested in learning more about the challenges of leaving the cult. Internal struggles of leaving everything you have ever known. What would have made it easier, less traumatic? Some people end up going back because it’s just to difficult and scary. As a neighbor or a friend, how could one support a former cult member, to help them feel supported and make the transition easier.
Judith’s inspirational statement at the end reminded me of the struggle a moth goes through to get out of its cocoon. If you open it for them/ie. no struggle, their wings are deformed and they never can fly. Their struggle is what makes them strong enough to fly!
I remember seeing the girls from Bountiful when I lived in rural BC. I always fought my instinct to go ask them if they want help escaping. Had I known they were potentially there as punishment for being rebellious, I probably would have.
I wonder what they would have said... When I lived among Muslims, I'd ask if they wanted to go for a walk. If one woman came, I'd talk about how exactly, I'd escape, if I were in a very bad marriage. I was in no danger, but my friend was... she did eventually run, and managed to get away from that country with offspring in tow. I like to think my 'musing' helped her to come up with a way for herself.
It very well may have planted the seed…just knowing there were others “out there” thinking about people like her, and that might help her find her feet once free. ❤🤗👍@@marym922
I am well aware of the FLDS and the other polygamist cults that separated from the Mormon church. There was this great show on years ago called “Escaping Polygamy” where some ex-members help other men, women, teens, etc. escape and they also run a nonprofit to help them transition into life outside of a polygamous cult. Thank you Shelise for having Judith onto share her story with all of us. 💗
@Yolanda B You escaped with the help of Escaping Polygamy? If so, I would love to hear your story! Perhaps, if you emailed Shelise and told her your story...?
@8 8 Polyamoury is based upon consent. It is also called Ethcial Non-Monogmy. People who participate are open with their main partner (some people use the term primary) about loving them but also being able to love and be with other partners (some people call additional partners secondary etc. I don't use that language myself). If anyone is not okay with the dynamic most ethical non-monoogmsits won't continue that relationship. Also, most states don't allow you to marry more than one person. So in many poly dynamics people have an open marriage. They are legally married to one partner but date others. This is often confused with Swinging which is completely different and typically doesn't have a romantic aspect between couples just a sexual one (I have mostly seen examples of straight stingers but there are probably LGBT stingers as well)
@@user-is4tv2pq2s In addition to what others have said, it should be clear that polyamorous or ethically non-monogamous relationships are generally based in equality. All partners, regardless of gender or role, are equally allowed to engage with other partners, at their own discretion, so long as everyone involved is honest and communicative. For example, my partner has another partner, but I do not, but that's a matter of my choice. If I met someone whom I felt a strong attraction to, I would make sure my partner was aware, and would move forward considering his feelings, as well as those of my potential new partner. It's not a "free love" everybody sleeps with everybody free-for-all. If anything, it requires a much greater conscientiousness and care for the emotions and well-being of everyone involved.
@@Kaotiqua Thanks for your viewpoint! That's a good point, it's not just whatever you WANT to do. There's still boundaries and cheating, etc. Communication is key!
Jude is such a strong, articulate woman with a horrific and compelling story under that monster Jeffs. So glad she got out. There are still people in that cult, even with Jeffs in prison. Thanks Shelise and Jude. Looking forward to part 2.
Very good interview on both sides, thank you from here in the UK. On the topic of libraries they were so important. In my small town as a child it was the library that gave me access to so much particularly the adults' section. I hope in the UK and US we can always preserve libraries even though people now have the internet too. All kinds of people have been helped by libraries. (I had not heard the surname Bateman associated with the FLDS until the recent Samuel Bateman arrest and his breakaway small group).
Totally agree about libraries. As a young teen I used to go to Liverpool central library. It was dark and old and there was so many little cubbies and hidey holes I could hide in and spend the day reading. I would just find a deserted corner and sit and read. I loved the smell of old books, the dark wooden book cases and the old dim lighting. I felt so disappointed and sad to visit it recently to find it was all white, bright, light and sterile with no dark corners to hide in. All the old bookcases had been removed and replaced with weird modern shelves. Atleast it's still a big library, but felt very weird, and uninviting
I think the movie she meant to refer to when she was talking about being rebellious is "Foot Loose", not "Dirty Dancing".. .. "Foot Loose" is generally more closely related to her situation than "Dirty Dancing". There was no church in "Dirty Dancing", but there was a church in "Foot Loose". The parents in ""Dirty Dancing" were Jewish, and the parents in "Foot Loose" were southern fundamentals which sounds much closer to her upbringing than "Dirty Dancing"..
Omg! You are such an amazing host, you deserve the highest honor for your style of questioning and interacting with your guests. A memory came to me as I listened to your guest tell of all the horrors of the Warren Jeffs group. As a teenager, we would constantly laugh at Mormon missionaries who came to our little island, dressed in their black pants and white shirts. I don't know who decided to send them to The Bahamas but am sure their conversion numbers were very low. I grew up in a Baptist church, with my grandmother as the organist, and she constantly pointed these young men out to me and my brothers as people to stay away from. Ok, I never knew about the details of the wards, the burning of clothes, books, toys and pets, but I always said to myself: intelligent people can never be swayed to believe such things, do such things, dress a certain way, etc. But the more I listen to these various Mormon or ex-Mormon podcasts, I can now see how any human being can become a cult follower. Who knows, maybe the Baptists are one as well. This world is so confusing. Anyway, am sticking to my contract with myself - I am not joining any group. I read and study the Bible but because of my Literature degree, I have a critical point of view to this book, or rather a collection of books. I am meditating and praying more and calling myself a seeker. I have grown to appreciate the spiritual aspects of my life more. We all have the opportunity to do this. There is enough information out there to keep us away from the love bombers.
Yes! I grew up Baptist as well and I'm on a similar journey~ I've stepped away from "religion" and Christianity but I am a seeker as well. My husband and I read the Bible and research a lot, we still pray and meditate on God and on love~ it's SO freeing! I have more peace & joy than I've ever found inside a group or brick & mortar building. God is _everywhere!_ I especially find him in nature ❤
You mentioned meditating. I would recommend mantra meditation where you focus on a mantra and the breath as you meditate. Anytime the mind wanders you bring your focus back to the mantra and the breath. It is ideal to do this for 15 minutes or more and to do it nearly everyday. This helps calm one's thoughts. An Ideal mantra would be "I love myself" and while breathing in repeat in mind "I love" and while breathing out repeat in mind "myself". Keep mind focused on breath and mantra entire time that has been set aside to do this.
Don't you mean Colorado City? My daughter and I actually drove through there on our way home to Scottsdale in 2002... She was a teenager and had heard stories and my dumb ass decided, "we're here, let's drive through!" It was the creepiest thing we've ever done... We couldn't get out of there fast enough. We were there just as school was letting out, and at first there was not a single person on the streets and I mean not one person. We drove a few blocks and then the kids started appearing, walking home. The girls were grouped together in their long dresses and braids, and the boys were grouped together but you didn't see boys and girls walking together. Of course they all gave us the eye- in a town that small a stranger's car sticks out like a sore thumb. Just as we were deciding we had pretty much seen all there was to see, here came a black SUV and two white pickups to check us out. I didn't think we were truly in danger but I knew about those trucks and I got back on that highway and gone as fast as I could. I wanted to just scoop up every girl we saw and take her with us. We did see the cemetery with all the babies before the trucks showed up - It was heartbreaking. Rows of headstones for babies... Inbreeding, and mothers that were way too young to be giving birth definitely kept the gravediggers busy.
thank you for this amazing interview !! i'm really curious about how health was managed in terms of access to doctors, therapists, etc.? it surprised me when judith mentioned many women were on medications for anxiety since i think i'd automatically assumed from what i'd heard in the netflix doc and mormon stories podcast that a psychiatrist or similar medical professional would be seen as an outside influence. looking forward to part two!
Hi 👋 this was so interesting & when you announced it’ll be a part 2 it felt I’d only listen like 10 minutes. Looking forward to part 2. With kindness and respect, Grace
All escapees from whatever cult are so brave to speak out, I am in the UK and learned the little i know from Escaping Polygamy on TV, so many of these men have a lot to own up to, it is all a power trip for them, sadly many won't ever admit they were wrong and are still telling their sons that they need to abuse women, I hope that more and more leave and learn the truth
I'm so glad for the people brave enough to leave these bad situations. Many don't know ways of life outside these organizations and its a shock to them.
Hi Shelise and Jude. That was riveting. Jude, I’m so sorry for what you suffered as a child and I’m so proud of your inner strength that kept leading you to find the truth. I loved the story of letting your hair out, dancing and sneaking a few drinks. That would’ve felt so good. You’re so brave to do that in that environment and so brave to find your way out. I did watch the series Keep Sweet: Pray & Obey and have also learnt a lot about Jeffs from other sources. I did not know about the killing of the pets though. He is the anti-Christ as far as I’m concerned. The foul, disgusting things that man has done, and still orders people to do from prison is deranged. One of the last orders I heard he declared was there was to be no sex between husbands and wives. Makes it hard to have kids. I’m so looking forward to part 2. Thank you so much Jude for coming and taking about your story. Shelise, you are such a kind and compassionate interviewer. I love watching you. ❤
40:54 I want to acknowledge that no, people may not have been "okay" with destroying their belongings but they had to so they could survive. Their actual survival was dependent on their obedience. This can be hard for those without a trauma history to totally grasp. Going back to the punishments of being sent away and losing your entire family, it was this or burn your books, tv, toys, anything. Because people will do anything necessary to survive. And we can never fault them for that. And this is not saying that she doesn't understand. She is so kind and compassionate. its a validation of those experiences.
Jude, thanks so much for charing your story. Years ago, outa interest, I started digging into Mormonism and the Fundamental groups. And I am so happy for all of you that found the strength to "escape". I wish you the very best for the rest of your live. We non-members only can imagine how hard it must´ve been some times or all the time. I know for sure, that a lot of people that escape "harsh" religions have to go into nearly constant therapy and that is very hard to do. It is exactly the same way to escape from an abusive relationship and what I find the hardest part for all of you.- You have to leave the family and beloved siblings behind and I know for a fact, from listening to other ex-members, that the FLDS shunnes "Sons of Perdition" and that you are not even welcome anymore to visit your little siblings, your Mom etc. I hope your healing process is ongoing and you keep up your strength to fight all of the "demons" that might haunt you ones in a while, flashbacks is a thing that might never go away, I know what I am talking about, I had to go into therapy a couple of years ago as well and get the brainwashing outa my head and soul and I was able to reprogramm myself with the help of a very very good therapist. Best thing that I ever done for myself. and I know how hard it can be, to keep yourself strong. . I send much love to you. thumbs up, for your strength and your willpower. Sorry if my typing sounds a bit weird, I am so rusted in, since I left Ireland and went back to the village on the french border where I grew up *lol* my english has gotten rotten *lol* but I hope you understand what I was trying to tell you
I understood your typing beautifully ❤ I'm glad you found a good therapist. I am on the journey now of reprogramming ~ I haven't found a therapist yet but I'm reading a lot of helpful books. Bless you!!
Great interview. Judith is a very brave woman. I look forward to watching and listening to part 2. Thank you and may the Lord Jesus Bless you both! 😊✝️🇺🇲❤️
WOW 😲! Those things are in some so called " christian" denominations! I remember my husband and I visiting his sister's church. We sat together near the back . A man came back and asked/ told my husband to sit on the front row. I was a bit upset, we were accustomed to sitting together. In fact my husband was not happy but didn't want to disrespect his sister by making a scene. We talked to his sister about it after service and found out that they did that to keep women away from the front so the pastor would not be distracted or tempted by seeing a woman's legs/knees. My husband was livid! " If he is ' tempted' that is his problem, not mine!" That was our response.
This was fascinating very informative never thought this could go on. I can’t wait for another chapter. Just found this channel today..loved. It great info👍😮
Yep a woman from the order had been forced to marry one of the leader's sons, when he was like you're being a brat I'm going to other wife's house she was just like bye bye. Some of the women do try and then the male leaders in these cults are spoiled, privileged brats who act tough but collapse the second women don't fall at their feet
This Cult angers me so much! I watched Keep Sweet Pray and Obey; i found it so disturbing that i had to take (extensive) breaks between episodes (no, i didn't grow up in a cult). I watch channels that cover murder and mayhem, etc. but listening to the women tell their stories was so so much more difficult and devastating. But that said, the strength and courage these women had to get away from the cult is truly inspiring. I hope more women (and men) are abe to get out.
I’m shocked that I never heard about the animals being killed. I’m an ex Mormon & that would have sent me over the edge. Just thinking about it is making me physically sick. My God would NEVER do that. I’m surprised there wasn’t a mass exodus then. If you hurt my dog, you’re going to have to face my wrath.
100 percent!! It hurt my heart. I couldn’t imagine. But also, it’s hard to know the mindset they were in. When you’re born and raised to “follow the prophet” and question nothing
One thing I noticed since I've been doing my research on the flds church is that there's a big portion of priority put on the women and what they suffered and what they endured but I really see interviews talking about how the young men were kicked out of the flds Church and how young men are still being used for free labor
Oh my lord, the cliffhanger had to be the biggest record scratch moment for me aughhhhhh 😂😅 but kudos to Judith and all these women who realize that this is not the life for them. The pet story made me want to sob into the dinner I was cooking 😢 just what the hell.
I was introduced to FLDS, Warren Jeffs, Mormonism thanks to the show Big Love when i was in college. I surely wasnt expecting that topic from the title of the show but I've been intrigued with this cult in particular since then. The mind control the supposed prophet and his dad had on these people keeps me wanting to hear stories from survivors. I really love you got an interview with her. Ive seen quite a bit of interviews, docs, even escaping polygamy and i have to say i learned some stuff with her sharing her experience.
Hi! I’m so glad you enjoyed it and learned some things. I always do my best to encourage the guests to give lots of descriptions so viewers have the full picture.
Brave woman! I’ll never understand Mormonism nor FLDS, as I’m an Orthodox Jewess. However, your channel is eye-opening, and I always enjoy watching you & your guests!
newer sub…really enjoying your videos…although i’ve heard of these things, i’ve don’t think i’ve ever seen anyone whose lived it…especially these hard-core ones! Shocking!
Interestingly, Shelise, I first felt that I should say almost depricatively that your cult experience has been good for you since it has given you a good business model to exploit yourself through these videos but just then I remembered some books I had read during My last few years in college (late 90s) and beyond, particularly - Alvin Tofler's books "Future Shock" and "The Third Wave" and Thomas Freidman's "Lexus and the Olive Tree", and Alan Greenspan's "The Age of Turbulence", which kind of foresaw the disintegration of society and the rise of local and global and fringe cults in response to the need for the feeling of belonging to a community of one's own however absurd their ideas. So I refrained 'cos I realised that your channel here is a natural offshoot of that trajectory as a response to assist us to navigate through such culty times. Thanks. It sheds light on how cults can arise anywhere and with anyone carrying a little charisma. A warning of sorts.
I've always found that one of the huge differences between the FLDS and ethical nonmonogamy (besides the lack of genuine consent) is that with ENM, you have equity in the polyamory, whereas with the FLDS, it's just polgyny (men are allowed to be married to multiple women, but women are only allowed to have a relationship with one man). This isn't a matter of each partner being free to explore their emotions openly as long as there's appropriate communication and boundaries with their existing partners. It's just the wives knowing their place.
All these polygamy groups hiding behind Jesus. I'm not a Believer myself but if it turns out Jesus does exist I got a real mouthful for him before he dropkicks me to hell.
This might be my favorite, sassy Linda,listen style comment to date! 😂🙌🏆
@@CultstoConsciousness Yahweh has got somethin coming too.
The Catholic church and child abuse? For real? Someone holy has to answer for this.
It was written that a dog attacked a five year old but the killing of the pets is one of the most horrible things I've ever read.They ran out of bullets so they shocked then to death.It could be heard throughout their community from up on the hill .I hate to even write this down but the extent of what goes on needs to be known.I'm glad to find your channel.This has led me to read the Bible and am almost done with the old testament😶The amount of animal sacrifice is seriously astounding
Starting with the Daybell trial I've been down a Cult rabbit hole.Thank you for bringing light to such a dangerous thing that is pretty hidden
IF I GET BANNED FROM HEAVEN FOR HOLLERING AT THE POLYGAMISTS, I WILL FACE JESUS AND WALK BACKWARDS INTO HELL --dril, i think
Ill never understand how/why it’s a woman’s responsibility to ensure creepy men aren’t enticed by their existence 😒
I know, right?
Exactly. I saw a video 'skit' the other day where an uncle was saying 'oh you shouldn't let your daughter dress so provocatively. She's too young to be dressing sexy like that'. And the dad chimes in and says 'if you think your under-age niece is being sexy, that sounds like a you problem and you better get the f out my house'.
I feel like this should be way more normalised. If you think someone is being provocative or 'sexy' or whatever for wearing something obviously normal then it's a you problem.
@@alyssatew9748 There's been a definite sexualization of children in the past few decades. Perhaps that was what he was referring to. Also, an unhealthy trend.
Number one rule of patriarchy. Women are the sinners. Eve?
@@nobodysbaby5048 decades? Child brides have been a mainstay of patriarchal societies since forever
As a librarian, it makes me so happy that a library provided that moment of discovery for you ❤ So glad you are here sharing your story with us!
Books are more valuable than most will EVER know! So glad there are people still doing librarian work! ❤❤❤
That section of the story made me tear up. Such a beautiful charcuterie of the outside world to experience.
Libraries and librarians are so important
There was a powerful pop-up exhibit in LA years ago displaying the outfits dozens of women were wearing when they were raped. The number of oversized sweatshirts and sweatpants was chilling. It doesn’t matter what a woman is wearing. She just has to exist.
Woah. That’s does sound chilling. Thanks for sharing.
An pyjamas! I only saw pictures of it, but a bunch was pyjamas or workout outfits.
I saw a video of something like this on UA-cam not long ago the amount of baggy clothing was a lot they even showed little girls clothing long dressed, little pajamas just normal children's clothing 😢 It don't matter what we wear evil people will do it anyway
"Was it my fault?" asked the skirt.
"No, it happened to me too" replied the burka.
The diaper in the corner couldn't even speak... 😢
@@CultstoConsciousness
My husband is not Mormon but he is a narcissist. My marriage was destroyed when he tried to brainwash me into believing multiple wives was “Godly” and having a second wife in the house would bring me honor. I let him go through and explain everything and then I left. I can never go back after that heartache. He has tried to be reconciled and say he doesn’t really feel that way but I will never feel the same about him. It’s disgusting to try and use God to manipulate women into allowing adultery right under their noses. I can’t imagine how hard it is to pretend you don’t care about sharing your spouse. Sex is sacred. Sharing your body with some one outside of your marriage is adultery.
I'm so glad you got out! ❤ my ex narcissist also wanted to bring another woman in the bedroom, yet not under the guise of religion. He did convince me that him needing to dress up like a girl in the bedroom was fine with God, along with completely ignoring my intimacy needs or my need to be known, seen, heard. 😢 I was a sex slave to him and I'm STILL healing....
@@starlingswallow😢 sending hugs! So sorry
Well in cults like this the more wives a creep has the less he’s gonna sleep with you and less children you gonna have with him.
Amen. Thank you for sharing this. This is so true.
Oh hell no! I’m so glad you got out.
Judith is so articulate, eloquent and insightful. I could listen to her talk all day.
During her Linda Listen moment, I really appreciated her acknowledging how the struggles of people who have experienced trauma are different to those who haven't. I'm fed up of hearing podcast guests talking about how to change your life or whatever because those things are not within my grasp and it just make me feel even more "other". To hear Judith making this differentiation made me feel validated, and more accepting of my struggle and my not-okayness.
My struggle with depression and anxiety as a full time university student and full time worker led me to teaching ESL in Asia for six years. My current struggle with psoriatic arthritis and osteoarthritis has gotten me into boardgaming. I’ve met most of my current friends through boardgaming. I may not be able to stand or walk for long periods, but I can boardgame all day.
Sometimes, in some situations, all you can do is struggle to keep your mind free, and never judge others who are struggling to do the same to the best of their abilities. If you can’t help someone, at least refrain from adding to their burdens.
I find it interesting how cults so often revolve around a male leadership defining all the very restrictive ways in which _women_ must live and behave, and how they are to be treated by the men of the group. All the most serious restrictions apply to the women and children. Almost as if many cults are really all primarily _about_ the control and domination of women in particular.
There are a few cults lead by women but for some reason they tend to follow the strict control of women as well.
They are.
It's not almost. It IS.
I have so much admiration for people who manage to free themselves from these cults and controlling groups, and then turn their lives around and get an education. And my heart breaks for those who don't manage to do that, even though deep in their hearts they would like to, but are too stuck, too afraid.
Same! There’s an extra level of amazing when they push to turn their lives around in a complete 180 and succeed.
Thinks for this! I'm a Portlander. My mom took us to OR to get away from the UT/ID LDS family. Your channel helps me understand my family better.
I watch many of your interviews, but the LDS ones help the most.
Hi! I'm so happy to hear it's helpful!
The story about the library is the cutest thing. I can just imagine the excitement she had and it warms my heart.
I was raised Christian and as I've gotten older the things I was taught were taboo and sinful now have such an innocence to them. Like being curious about boys and your anatomy are so innocent and precious growing up. Once you become an adult you realize how pure your intentions were. It breaks my heart that that experience is perverted for some children.
I feel so sorry for all those women who were pretty much held in reproductive slavery like that, being intentionally raised to have “being a wife and bearing as many children as possible” as their ultimate life goal and being expected to lay down for their assigned husband and carry baby after baby.
Pregnancy is not easy on the body, and being practically forced into having child after child whether you want to or not is a very unique kind of taking someone’s opportunities away from them and physically restricting their life.
Yes! It's completely stripping someone of their own bodily autonomy! 😢😢😢
It's also a very unique type of torture for those women physically. Our bodies are not designed to have so many children and especially not any closer than two years apart. It takes our bodies that long to heal from pregnancy and giving birth.
Even farmers restrict their livestock’s health by limiting reproduction times. Some men care more about animals than women.
I was expected to live this way and when I couldn’t due to physical reproductive dysfunction I was blamed and not believed.
@ArtandDiamondsWithEskies yes these people think they are "following God's will" etc but women aren't meant to be pregnant and give birth that frequently.
I dont have much to give unfortunately because I’m a college student but I just want you to know how valuable what you’re doing is. I’ve never been a religious person nor is my family but I’m very passionate about feminism and protecting women from these disgusting systems of power and practice. Thank you for giving these women a platform to share their stories each and everyone of them has moved me to near tears I hope all of them find the peace they truly deserve ❤ thank you again for everything you do
Jude, thank you so much for doing this interview. It's crazy how after 6 years of regularly looking into Mormonism after leaving it, I'm still learning so much. I'm currently working on a novel in which the FLDS manages to control a theocracy in a large portion of the US and this was very inspiring. Thank you and thank you Shelise as always for doing the interview!
You’re welcome, Ray! Congrats on your novel!
Ill keep an eye out for your book. I've read everything I could get my hands on.Right now I'm reading a book by one of Brigham Youngs men who killed many for him until tossed away when no.longer useful.
Bill Hickmans story written at the time in the 1800s Brigham Youngs Avenging Angel
Read "The Handmaid's Tale" & " The Testaments". Should be informative for you. Looking forward to your book.
Oh heck no! Hurting my pets would have set me on a rampage 😡 that’s right under hurting my human child.
I would lose it if anyone hurt my pets!! 😡😡 that is So Wrong!! Not Christ like at all... that's Pure Evil!!
The pets? I've never heard of this. Oh that is devastating. I'm so sorry anyone suffered this. Thank you for sharing this. Cannot be easy ❤
I was heartbroken when she said that. I can’t even imagine!
agreed! this literally took my breath away. absolutely terrorizing
I was caught by surprise as well. I had to take a little break and come back because I went to hug my kitties. I wonder if somebody decided to set some of the pets, free into the borders of the compound away because they just did not have the heart to put their own pets down.
This is what the most dangerous abusers do in Domestic Violence
What was he thinking. You keep taking things away there will be a revolt. Or were they just insane with power? Was there imbreeding ?
I think there is a whole slew of cult leaders who owe God a BIG apology!!! Shelise, I love your interview style, you are so respectful of all sides, and I am hooked on your channel that I just found this week.
Amazing and informative and I sincerely hope that your message will reach people who are thinking about joining a religious group. Head's up!!
Thank you so much, Marian! How sweet of you! Welcome to C2C :D
There. Is. No. God. Invented by men to control others and to legitimize criminal behaviour and to get rich. Cults are for the weak minded.
They also owe their victims big apologies!
Such an amazingly well spoken lady, what an interesting guest. She seems so emotionally strong and present to relay and share this information.
Jude, your bravery is completely mind blowing. Thank you for being so vulnerability. Thank you Shelise for such fantastic guests. 💖
Thanks for your continued support, Donna! ❤️
Hey Shelise!
I discovered your channel yesterday and I was immediately impressed by your listening skills, your questioning and your empathy for the people you interview.
Religions and cults are for me, some of the most interesting topics to inform myself with out there - combine that with an intelligent, very self-reflective woman and you got yourself a new, very engaged, subscriber. :)
Greetings from Austria ❤️
Hi Sophie! Thank you so much! That means a lot. I do my best 😁 welcome to C2C!
Same here! Greetings from the netherlands!
And from Australia ❤
I was raised mainstream mormon and was only a member from 8-16 years old and never was involved I went on Sunday never more never less. I can’t imagine ever being trapped in a religion and I just found your channel yesterday and I’m hooked. I can’t believe how strong all your guest’s are.
Hi! Welcome to C2C my fellow apostate friend!
The FLDS has been a fascination for me. Keep Sweet Pray and Obey was horrifying but I couldn’t stop watching. Looking forward to both episodes.
The Handmaids tale is very similar
same ive watched it at least 3 times all the way through because its so interesting but its such a hard watch
SO brave to share your story Judith. I was raised Catholic and struggle with redefining my world without the confines of religion, but it’s NOTHING close to what you’ve been through! You’re an AMAZING woman!
Excellent interview!
Omigoodness, Jude, you are an incredible storyteller, I cannot wait for the next part of the interview.
Listened to the podcast but had to peep in yet just to see the dress. Loved the spirit of Judith as a child/young woman. Fantastic. I would love a short clip published to just cover
“ I said No! “ What an inspiration to share and show everyone the power of listening to your inner voice. All credit to Judith today for her courage and honesty.👍🏼💚👍🏼
I knew of Jude as my brothers were friends with her brothers. I was a very little girl so she probably doesn't remember me. I admire those that were able to take the courageous steps earlier on. I wasn't so lucky. I guess maybe what my son told me may be true, in some sense, that I have hurt myself by staying in that culture so long and being afraid to take the courageous steps at a younger age. I was placed in an arranged marriage to my step-dad at the age of 16. I'm now 36 and I've been out for about 3 years now. I stayed in, in hopes life would become easier and happy again as it was before my biological father died.
I had a child by my step-dad who is now 17 years old, and he won't talk to me anymore. I thought my heart was already broken and hurt beyond repair, and now it feels shattered in a million pieces that I've been trying to piece back together. I've gone through some days that I don't know if it's worth going on. I hope I can go forward now and imagine the joyful happy life into existence.
I don't know if my story could benefit anyone or if it will even heal anything for me, but I've enjoyed the content you have shared.
I’m sorry you had to go thru that and I pray you have peace and love in your new life❤️
You should be a guest!! I hope you’re doing well ❤
I am a stranger from the other side of the world but I congratulate you on your strength, vulnerability and dedication. You made it through and many of us reading your stories have only admiration and compassion for you.❤
Shelise, I'm so glad you started this podcast. You are an excellent interviewer and you have a way of bringing fresh insights out of topics that I've seen a zillion interviews about already.
What a beautifully kind compliment! 🥰 thank you so much, Carolyn. That makes me very happy to hear.
Love this episode and can’t wait for the next one with Judith! I think I have an obsession with this topic, because I’m amazed at how much I can relate even having grown up mainstream Mormon. It’s incredible how, even though I grew up in the “outside world”, I still felt as though I was enclosed behind walls filled with fear. As if looking any further than what was I was told to see would damn my family and own eternal existence, causing so much internal turmoil when I began to question my faith. Very similar core affects. Yet, such an extremely different life.
100 percent!!
I have fallen into this rabbit hole and don't want out. I have a new understand of High Demand Religions & realize some of the problems my family members are in. Knowledge is power and I appreciate you shining such a bright light.
I'm anxious to hear the remainder of Jude's experiences. I went through a phase of listening to all the books I could find about people who'd left FLDS. I highly recommend The Witness Wore Red by Rebecca Musser and Stolen Innocence by Elissa Wall. Also, Prophet's Prey by Sam Brower. They are all engaging, informational, and emotional.
Breaking free by Rachel Jeffs as well, his "favourite daughter" and victim. She got out with 6 children I think and has spent a lot of the time since trying to help other women leave
Thanks for all of these recommendations! I am trying to contact Elissa for an interview as well
@@CultstoConsciousness Maybe speak to growing up in polygamy on youtube, Sam was raised FLDS but left at 18 and then recently both he and his wife left the mainstream LDS church
@@nickywal The only thing is, he is a male, he had a totally different experience than the girls/women did. This Cult practices patriarchy, the women are suppressed and have no say in anything of any importance.
EDIT, I watch their channel, his wife was raised LDS, they married after he left the FLDS. He joined the LDS, then a little further along, they both left the LDS. She never experienced life as a part of the FLDS…
I, as well, have read all of the books that I could about the FLDS. Carolyn Jessop’s and Brent Jeff’s books are excellent. One thing that I have found, and consider very sad, is that the majority of those who were able to escape, have abandoned any form of belief in God. Most are now atheists.
Judith, you just exude peace and wisdom, and you share your story so beautifully. I literally couldn't believe part one was already over - I was completely caught up in your telling. I don't know if you still see the comments, but I hope you are well. Books were my only means of escaping the horrors that surrounded me growing up. Each one is still a dear friend. Thank you for sharing your truth.
Holy cow, what an ending! Thank you Judith for being so vulnerable.
I've been deeply enjoying your interviews! I've been jumping around the back catalog for a few days and I'm consistently impressed by your skills as an interviewer as well as the vulnerability your guests are willing to offer. If possible, I'd love to see you interview Elly of the channel Ex-Fundie Diaries! I think you both would have such a fulfilling, reflective conversation.
Hi! Thank you so much! And welcome to the C2C rabbit hole! I will check out your suggestion
Thanks so much for such granular, detailed time stamps/chapters. I was too triggered to start at the beginning, so I started with “hairstyles.” Thanks especially for the “pets” heads up-I don’t think I can stomach hearing about that at all.
Thank you for sharing that. I had never considered they could be helpful in that way. Now I can be more aware of it. ❤️
I just discovered this channel and i had a friend i used to be pretty close to who was ex-mormon and i never really understood the depth of it and her related trauma. It makes me feel like i wasn't supportive enough, i havent talked to her in a couple years when we both were battling our demons and PTSD. I just hope she's doing okay
Long time lurker, first time commenter. Thanks for this interview! Love your work Shelise!
yeah she is a great interviewer
Haha thanks for lurking, Luna! 😁❤️ and now for commenting! I appreciate it
@@florianmaier4586 thank you so much! 🥰
Shelise, this interview had me gripped..really really enjoyed it, cannot wait for the second part. Thanks to Judith too 😊
Thanks, Rach! Coming this week 😁
I am also from the flds. Thank you for bringing awareness.
Thanks for sharing, Amy! ❤️
Your photo looks like you were never a Mormon
Ooohkay, did not expect my state to come up on the list of compounds, yikes. Can't wait to hear the rest of her story!
Thank you so much for sharing your story sounds like such a difficult and heartbreaking life this is a fantastic interview ❤
I cannot tell you how enlightening this information is. Thank you for your efforts.
Hi, Shelise! I am so engrossed in this video. The horror of having one's pets destroyed is ... well, unspeakable. I remember seeing several videos on the Bountiful, Canada compound. Ugh! All I could think back then, was, "Ugh! They expect young girls to be bedded by icky old men?!? YUCK!" And then, it was implied that these same older men, desiring only young wives, conspired to get rid of the young men because they were "competition"!
Anyway, I got a small chuckle at 1:07:15 when Judith said, "...so, that's where the story gets interesting." I'm thinking..."Uh...you mean, even *more* interesting?!?" Going to go listen to Part 2 immediately after this! 💕
Thanks for sharing!! Yeah it’s super gross. Enjoy part 2!
Every time I listen to your podcasts or Mormon stories, I am so thankful that my kids and myself are out of the cult and my grandkids are not being raised with the shame/purity culture and all the bullshit! Thank you for so much for all you do! Born and raised in Ogden, Utah🤣
Thanks for watching! Ahh yes, good ole Ogden lol. I was born there
I remember when they killed everyones pets, our pets in LeBaron were murdered by leaders too. My family had to hide TVs because if the leaders found out about it our TVs and VCR players were mysteriously broken. They would also turn off our gas so we couldnt cook or have hot water. The women and wifes would have to leave the house to fix the gas systems in our house, we'd then get kidnapped and raped again. We would hide in our locked homes, then theyd break in to steal our babies. We'd get our children back when we'd go bsck to church.
Well spoken survivor - I totally empathize- escaped in my 50’s and never looked back. 💗
So happy for you! You've got a great life ahead of you 💜💜💜
Thank You!🌷 for sharing this. I am interested in learning more about the challenges of leaving the cult. Internal struggles of leaving everything you have ever known. What would have made it easier, less traumatic? Some people end up going back because it’s just to difficult and scary. As a neighbor or a friend, how could one support a former cult member, to help them feel supported and make the transition easier.
Judith’s inspirational statement at the end reminded me of the struggle a moth goes through to get out of its cocoon. If you open it for them/ie. no struggle, their wings are deformed and they never can fly. Their struggle is what makes them strong enough to fly!
I remember seeing the girls from Bountiful when I lived in rural BC. I always fought my instinct to go ask them if they want help escaping. Had I known they were potentially there as punishment for being rebellious, I probably would have.
I wonder what they would have said...
When I lived among Muslims, I'd ask if they wanted to go for a walk. If one woman came, I'd talk about how exactly, I'd escape, if I were in a very bad marriage. I was in no danger, but my friend was... she did eventually run, and managed to get away from that country with offspring in tow. I like to think my 'musing' helped her to come up with a way for herself.
It very well may have planted the seed…just knowing there were others “out there” thinking about people like her, and that might help her find her feet once free. ❤🤗👍@@marym922
There's nothing better, than a discussion between two clever, heartfelt people ❤❤✨🌼🌻🌈
Nooo I need more! One hell of a cliffhanger ❤🌼
Awww thanks Sara! Sorry but you know I had to! 😂🙏 stay tuned!
I am well aware of the FLDS and the other polygamist cults that separated from the Mormon church. There was this great show on years ago called “Escaping Polygamy” where some ex-members help other men, women, teens, etc. escape and they also run a nonprofit to help them transition into life outside of a polygamous cult. Thank you Shelise for having Judith onto share her story with all of us. 💗
Right! I’m looking to get Amanda Rae on here. Thanks for watching!
@Cults to Consciousness You just popped up in my recommended. I escaped on Escaping Polygamy! I'm so excited for Amanda to come on.😊
@Yolanda B
You escaped with the help of Escaping Polygamy? If so, I would love to hear your story! Perhaps, if you emailed Shelise and told her your story...?
INCREDIBLE INTERVIEW. I was so disappointed to realize this was released today and not weeks ago because now I have to wait for part 2. 😂😰
Haha oh no! Don’t worry, we are aiming to release part 2 on Thursday! Only a few days away 😁❤️
Thank you so much for sharing your story Jude! ❤
Aauugghh! What a cliffhanger! Gripping story. Thank you, Jude, for sharing your story with us.
Hope I can find part two! I sure would like to hear the rest of the story. Thanks again and God Bless you BOTH
Thanks!
Thank YOU!
You are doing a very good job on your podcast. Entertaining and professional. Thank you.
Thank you so much!!
great interview, you both did a good job. I'm looking forward to listening to part 2 (and subscribing)
I practice ethical non monogamy (polyamory). I even can't IMAGINE living as a polygamist...thank you for telling your story Jude. This is intense.
What’s the difference?
@@user-is4tv2pq2s Women have the choice to be with who they want to be? They aren't treated like chattel.
@8 8 Polyamoury is based upon consent. It is also called Ethcial Non-Monogmy. People who participate are open with their main partner (some people use the term primary) about loving them but also being able to love and be with other partners (some people call additional partners secondary etc. I don't use that language myself).
If anyone is not okay with the dynamic most ethical non-monoogmsits won't continue that relationship.
Also, most states don't allow you to marry more than one person. So in many poly dynamics people have an open marriage. They are legally married to one partner but date others.
This is often confused with Swinging which is completely different and typically doesn't have a romantic aspect between couples just a sexual one (I have mostly seen examples of straight stingers but there are probably LGBT stingers as well)
@@user-is4tv2pq2s In addition to what others have said, it should be clear that polyamorous or ethically non-monogamous relationships are generally based in equality. All partners, regardless of gender or role, are equally allowed to engage with other partners, at their own discretion, so long as everyone involved is honest and communicative. For example, my partner has another partner, but I do not, but that's a matter of my choice. If I met someone whom I felt a strong attraction to, I would make sure my partner was aware, and would move forward considering his feelings, as well as those of my potential new partner. It's not a "free love" everybody sleeps with everybody free-for-all. If anything, it requires a much greater conscientiousness and care for the emotions and well-being of everyone involved.
@@Kaotiqua Thanks for your viewpoint! That's a good point, it's not just whatever you WANT to do. There's still boundaries and cheating, etc. Communication is key!
Jude is such a strong, articulate woman with a horrific and compelling story under that monster Jeffs. So glad she got out. There are still people in that cult, even with Jeffs in prison. Thanks Shelise and Jude. Looking forward to part 2.
Very good interview on both sides, thank you from here in the UK. On the topic of libraries they were so important. In my small town as a child it was the library that gave me access to so much particularly the adults' section. I hope in the UK and US we can always preserve libraries even though people now have the internet too. All kinds of people have been helped by libraries. (I had not heard the surname Bateman associated with the FLDS until the recent Samuel Bateman arrest and his breakaway small group).
Totally agree about libraries. As a young teen I used to go to Liverpool central library. It was dark and old and there was so many little cubbies and hidey holes I could hide in and spend the day reading. I would just find a deserted corner and sit and read. I loved the smell of old books, the dark wooden book cases and the old dim lighting. I felt so disappointed and sad to visit it recently to find it was all white, bright, light and sterile with no dark corners to hide in. All the old bookcases had been removed and replaced with weird modern shelves. Atleast it's still a big library, but felt very weird, and uninviting
I think the movie she meant to refer to when she was talking about being rebellious is "Foot Loose", not "Dirty Dancing".. .. "Foot Loose" is generally more closely related to her situation than "Dirty Dancing". There was no church in "Dirty Dancing", but there was a church in "Foot Loose". The parents in ""Dirty Dancing" were Jewish, and the parents in "Foot Loose" were southern fundamentals which sounds much closer to her upbringing than "Dirty Dancing"..
Omg! You are such an amazing host, you deserve the highest honor for your style of questioning and interacting with your guests. A memory came to me as I listened to your guest tell of all the horrors of the Warren Jeffs group. As a teenager, we would constantly laugh at Mormon missionaries who came to our little island, dressed in their black pants and white shirts. I don't know who decided to send them to The Bahamas but am sure their conversion numbers were very low. I grew up in a Baptist church, with my grandmother as the organist, and she constantly pointed these young men out to me and my brothers as people to stay away from. Ok, I never knew about the details of the wards, the burning of clothes, books, toys and pets, but I always said to myself: intelligent people can never be swayed to believe such things, do such things, dress a certain way, etc. But the more I listen to these various Mormon or ex-Mormon podcasts, I can now see how any human being can become a cult follower. Who knows, maybe the Baptists are one as well. This world is so confusing. Anyway, am sticking to my contract with myself - I am not joining any group. I read and study the Bible but because of my Literature degree, I have a critical point of view to this book, or rather a collection of books. I am meditating and praying more and calling myself a seeker. I have grown to appreciate the spiritual aspects of my life more. We all have the opportunity to do this. There is enough information out there to keep us away from the love bombers.
Yes! I grew up Baptist as well and I'm on a similar journey~ I've stepped away from "religion" and Christianity but I am a seeker as well. My husband and I read the Bible and research a lot, we still pray and meditate on God and on love~ it's SO freeing! I have more peace & joy than I've ever found inside a group or brick & mortar building. God is _everywhere!_
I especially find him in nature ❤
You mentioned meditating. I would recommend mantra meditation where you focus on a mantra and the breath as you meditate. Anytime the mind wanders you bring your focus back to the mantra and the breath. It is ideal to do this for 15 minutes or more and to do it nearly everyday. This helps calm one's thoughts. An Ideal mantra would be "I love myself" and while breathing in repeat in mind "I love" and while breathing out repeat in mind "myself". Keep mind focused on breath and mantra entire time that has been set aside to do this.
Don't you mean Colorado City?
My daughter and I actually drove through there on our way home to Scottsdale in 2002... She was a teenager and had heard stories and my dumb ass decided, "we're here, let's drive through!" It was the creepiest thing we've ever done... We couldn't get out of there fast enough.
We were there just as school was letting out, and at first there was not a single person on the streets and I mean not one person. We drove a few blocks and then the kids started appearing, walking home. The girls were grouped together in their long dresses and braids, and the boys were grouped together but you didn't see boys and girls walking together. Of course they all gave us the eye- in a town that small a stranger's car sticks out like a sore thumb. Just as we were deciding we had pretty much seen all there was to see, here came a black SUV and two white pickups to check us out. I didn't think we were truly in danger but I knew about those trucks and I got back on that highway and gone as fast as I could. I wanted to just scoop up every girl we saw and take her with us. We did see the cemetery with all the babies before the trucks showed up - It was heartbreaking. Rows of headstones for babies... Inbreeding, and mothers that were way too young to be giving birth definitely kept the gravediggers busy.
Trucks?
thank you for this amazing interview !! i'm really curious about how health was managed in terms of access to doctors, therapists, etc.? it surprised me when judith mentioned many women were on medications for anxiety since i think i'd automatically assumed from what i'd heard in the netflix doc and mormon stories podcast that a psychiatrist or similar medical professional would be seen as an outside influence. looking forward to part two!
Great question! I will ask my next guest who was from the FLDS as well!
@@CultstoConsciousness can't wait :D
Hi 👋 this was so interesting & when you announced it’ll be a part 2 it felt I’d only listen like 10 minutes. Looking forward to part 2.
With kindness and respect, Grace
Hi Grace! I’m happy to hear that! This was even a longer episode 😁 part two is set to release on Thursday.
@@CultstoConsciousness ❤️
Love this channel so much. Thanks for great content, always.
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Aww thank you, Jeannie! I appreciate your support! ❤️
All escapees from whatever cult are so brave to speak out, I am in the UK and learned the little i know from Escaping Polygamy on TV, so many of these men have a lot to own up to, it is all a power trip for them, sadly many won't ever admit they were wrong and are still telling their sons that they need to abuse women, I hope that more and more leave and learn the truth
Catching up on the old episodes. Can’t get enough of this content.
🥰🙌
These polygamy groups are fascinating and horrifying. I’d love to hear more from folks who have left other groups.
We just scheduled a recording with a gentleman who left 2nd ward! Coming this week!
I love her redefinition of struggle, turning it into an opportunity. Can't wait to hear part 2. (Which I'm just about to do.)
Thank you so much for sharing your incredible story. You are brave, beautiful and wise. Best of luck to you!!
After watching "pray and obey" I was quite confused bc I had only known about mainstream Mormonism so far. Thank you for explaining!
We have another killer episode coming tomorrow that goes into even more depth about the nuances between them
I'm so glad for the people brave enough to leave these bad situations. Many don't know ways of life outside these organizations and its a shock to them.
Great interview! Waiting to hear the rest.
Thanks, Pia! The plan is to release it on Thursday
@@CultstoConsciousness - cannot wait!!
Wow, this was intense. Can't wait for part 2!
Thank you so much for sharing this ❤❤❤
Wow amazing interview can not wait for the next part ❤ love from Canada 🇨🇦 ❤❤❤
Hi Shelise and Jude. That was riveting. Jude, I’m so sorry for what you suffered as a child and I’m so proud of your inner strength that kept leading you to find the truth. I loved the story of letting your hair out, dancing and sneaking a few drinks. That would’ve felt so good. You’re so brave to do that in that environment and so brave to find your way out. I did watch the series Keep Sweet: Pray & Obey and have also learnt a lot about Jeffs from other sources. I did not know about the killing of the pets though. He is the anti-Christ as far as I’m concerned. The foul, disgusting things that man has done, and still orders people to do from prison is deranged. One of the last orders I heard he declared was there was to be no sex between husbands and wives. Makes it hard to have kids.
I’m so looking forward to part 2. Thank you so much Jude for coming and taking about your story. Shelise, you are such a kind and compassionate interviewer. I love watching you. ❤
Thank you Jo Jo! I agree what Jeffs has done/is doing is awful. Thanks for watching!
I love this channel! :)
Aww yay! Happy to hear that!🎉
Jude is such an amazingly well spoken woman. I could listen to her speak for ever (maybe she should start narrating books on audible)
Wow! You should do a PSA on how libraries can change your life!! Knowledge is power!!😊
Very glad I found your podcast.
40:54 I want to acknowledge that no, people may not have been "okay" with destroying their belongings but they had to so they could survive. Their actual survival was dependent on their obedience. This can be hard for those without a trauma history to totally grasp. Going back to the punishments of being sent away and losing your entire family, it was this or burn your books, tv, toys, anything. Because people will do anything necessary to survive. And we can never fault them for that.
And this is not saying that she doesn't understand. She is so kind and compassionate. its a validation of those experiences.
Jude, thanks so much for charing your story. Years ago, outa interest, I started digging into Mormonism and the Fundamental groups. And I am so happy for all of you that found the strength to "escape". I wish you the very best for the rest of your live. We non-members only can imagine how hard it must´ve been some times or all the time. I know for sure, that a lot of people that escape "harsh" religions have to go into nearly constant therapy and that is very hard to do. It is exactly the same way to escape from an abusive relationship and what I find the hardest part for all of you.- You have to leave the family and beloved siblings behind and I know for a fact, from listening to other ex-members, that the FLDS shunnes "Sons of Perdition" and that you are not even welcome anymore to visit your little siblings, your Mom etc. I hope your healing process is ongoing and you keep up your strength to fight all of the "demons" that might haunt you ones in a while, flashbacks is a thing that might never go away, I know what I am talking about, I had to go into therapy a couple of years ago as well and get the brainwashing outa my head and soul and I was able to reprogramm myself with the help of a very very good therapist. Best thing that I ever done for myself. and I know how hard it can be, to keep yourself strong. . I send much love to you. thumbs up, for your strength and your willpower. Sorry if my typing sounds a bit weird, I am so rusted in, since I left Ireland and went back to the village on the french border where I grew up *lol* my english has gotten rotten *lol* but I hope you understand what I was trying to tell you
I understood your typing beautifully ❤ I'm glad you found a good therapist. I am on the journey now of reprogramming ~ I haven't found a therapist yet but I'm reading a lot of helpful books.
Bless you!!
Great interview. Judith is a very brave woman. I look forward to watching and listening to part 2. Thank you and may the Lord Jesus Bless you both! 😊✝️🇺🇲❤️
WOW 😲! Those things are in some so called " christian" denominations! I remember my husband and I visiting his sister's church. We sat together near the back . A man came back and asked/ told my husband to sit on the front row. I was a bit upset, we were accustomed to sitting together. In fact my husband was not happy but didn't want to disrespect his sister by making a scene.
We talked to his sister about it after service and found out that they did that to keep women away from the front so the pastor would not be distracted or tempted by seeing a woman's legs/knees.
My husband was livid! " If he is ' tempted' that is his problem, not mine!" That was our response.
Would love to see Amanda Rae or Eskel grant 🎉 love your channel happy to have found it
Hi Kenny! We have tried getting Amanda on. I’d love it if you could pop over to her channel and suggest the collab 😜
This was fascinating very informative never thought this could go on. I can’t wait for another chapter. Just found this channel today..loved.
It great info👍😮
Hi! Welcome to C2C and MANY dark scary rabbit holes ❤️
It's probably not that hard to share your husband if you had no choice in marrying him in the first place.
You know what? FABULOUS point!
Yep a woman from the order had been forced to marry one of the leader's sons, when he was like you're being a brat I'm going to other wife's house she was just like bye bye. Some of the women do try and then the male leaders in these cults are spoiled, privileged brats who act tough but collapse the second women don't fall at their feet
This Cult angers me so much! I watched Keep Sweet Pray and Obey; i found it so disturbing that i had to take (extensive) breaks between episodes (no, i didn't grow up in a cult). I watch channels that cover murder and mayhem, etc. but listening to the women tell their stories was so so much more difficult and devastating. But that said, the strength and courage these women had to get away from the cult is truly inspiring. I hope more women (and men) are abe to get out.
I’m shocked that I never heard about the animals being killed. I’m an ex Mormon & that would have sent me over the edge. Just thinking about it is making me physically sick. My God would NEVER do that. I’m surprised there wasn’t a mass exodus then. If you hurt my dog, you’re going to have to face my wrath.
100 percent!! It hurt my heart. I couldn’t imagine. But also, it’s hard to know the mindset they were in. When you’re born and raised to “follow the prophet” and question nothing
Animals are our buddies, how can you kill them? That's scary
One thing I noticed since I've been doing my research on the flds church is that there's a big portion of priority put on the women and what they suffered and what they endured but I really see interviews talking about how the young men were kicked out of the flds Church and how young men are still being used for free labor
Oh my lord, the cliffhanger had to be the biggest record scratch moment for me aughhhhhh 😂😅 but kudos to Judith and all these women who realize that this is not the life for them. The pet story made me want to sob into the dinner I was cooking 😢 just what the hell.
Great work as always!
I was introduced to FLDS, Warren Jeffs, Mormonism thanks to the show Big Love when i was in college.
I surely wasnt expecting that topic from the title of the show but I've been intrigued with this cult in particular since then. The mind control the supposed prophet and his dad had on these people keeps me wanting to hear stories from survivors.
I really love you got an interview with her. Ive seen quite a bit of interviews, docs, even escaping polygamy and i have to say i learned some stuff with her sharing her experience.
Hi! I’m so glad you enjoyed it and learned some things. I always do my best to encourage the guests to give lots of descriptions so viewers have the full picture.
Brave woman! I’ll never understand Mormonism nor FLDS, as I’m an Orthodox Jewess.
However, your channel is eye-opening, and I always enjoy watching you & your guests!
Oh my gosh, I need to go find the second episode!
newer sub…really enjoying your videos…although i’ve heard of these things, i’ve don’t think i’ve ever seen anyone whose lived it…especially these hard-core ones! Shocking!
Hi! Welcome to C2C!
Interestingly, Shelise, I first felt that I should say almost depricatively that your cult experience has been good for you since it has given you a good business model to exploit yourself through these videos but just then I remembered some books I had read during My last few years in college (late 90s) and beyond, particularly - Alvin Tofler's books "Future Shock" and "The Third Wave" and Thomas Freidman's "Lexus and the Olive Tree", and Alan Greenspan's "The Age of Turbulence", which kind of foresaw the disintegration of society and the rise of local and global and fringe cults in response to the need for the feeling of belonging to a community of one's own however absurd their ideas. So I refrained 'cos I realised that your channel here is a natural offshoot of that trajectory as a response to assist us to navigate through such culty times. Thanks.
It sheds light on how cults can arise anywhere and with anyone carrying a little charisma. A warning of sorts.
My parents teached me to use libraries as much as possible.
Being alone in a library without a chaperon must have been something extra.
I've always found that one of the huge differences between the FLDS and ethical nonmonogamy (besides the lack of genuine consent) is that with ENM, you have equity in the polyamory, whereas with the FLDS, it's just polgyny (men are allowed to be married to multiple women, but women are only allowed to have a relationship with one man). This isn't a matter of each partner being free to explore their emotions openly as long as there's appropriate communication and boundaries with their existing partners. It's just the wives knowing their place.