The Worst Gear in Gacha History
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- @Pseychie_NIKKE breaks down the assortment of gearing systems in gacha games, and why they're bad. Saint wonders where WuWa is on this shameful list.
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Saint you are being incredibly delusional on this video, brother. Suggesting that PGR system is bad just because it's not as popular as WuWa is ridiculous. An open world exploration game will always have an edge over a game like PGR and will appeal to a wider audience. There are many, MANY reasons why PGR has problems retaining players, and believe me, it's not because they have nothing to do. Quite the opposite actually, most people, specially new players, quit PGR because of the amount of event, daily tasks, weekly tasks, monthly tasks and different things they have to do every, single, day. Specially if you want to get everything from the events and the game. You have to play for HOURS every day. I love WuWa, it's my favourite gacha and I think Kuro is a great company. But they aren't free from criticism. And it's also important to call out whenever they fall into predatory practices and not just assume that "oh well, they changed it, so it must mean it's the best for the game" is toxic positivity. This is how Genshin became so shit. Of course we should be reasonable, but being reasonable is not accepting everything at face value
The thing with pgr is that you dont grind for the gears but instead unto the character dupes/shards daily it just a different type of problem. Wuwa dont rely on dupes while pgr is very heavily reliant on it to complete its gameplay kit.
Indeed. Hard agree on what you said. The perspective where gear is the form of the endgame is actually very wrong imo. Wuwa echo grind is a huge waste of time due to echoes having multiple layers of RNG. From the drop rate, mainstats rng, rolling the substats, type of rolls on that sub stats (low, mid, high). Instead of making building echo as painful as possible maybe have a better endgame mode. To be fair they will introduce some form of endgame that will be refresh weekly which is a good start. But echo system do need improvements to make it bearable. Saint is too bias when it comes to Wuwa. His channel is starting to become an echo chamber. Echo system is not good unless playing the game for hours everyday is your job.
Echo min-maxing is definitely an endgame activity and it's not a "need" but it's a "want".
For clearing endgames you literally just need 1 good lingering tunes set and unleveled Rejuv and Moonlight set to clear all 3 towers with all your team.
Right now you can just be patient because the echo requirement is very low.
Unless Kuro ever releases an endgame where you can't freely share echoes across teams or the endgame requires perfect echo to clear then I guess an improvement in the echo system is needed.
@@QueenAI-ph1xiNo. For the dupes, you only need to do Phantom Pain Cage, and to do PPC, you only need three days in a week. That is even more lessened if the unit you're building has shards from vouchers.
It's not "a different kind of grind" cause PPC is also part of the weekly grind for premium currency. It's hitting two birds with one stone.
I notice that saint is keeping on hitting at PGR despite not knowing literally a single thing about it.
I hardly disagree with you Saint. You are being bias with Wuwa. Gear grinding is not the only form of endgame you can have in a gacha. Gear grinding is not the holy grail. Endgame mode should be a boss battle or event or some form of game mode not grinding gears. Endgame mode should be more emphasize on you using your characters to clear content not grinding gears for said characters. Echo system have multiple layers of RNG and it's not good no matter how you spin it. RNG on drops, RNG on main stats, RNG on sub stats, RNG on sub stats roll (low, mid, high). It's a huge time waster and the rewards you get from wasting that much time is not worth it in my honest opinion.
Maybe you should do some self reflection because you sound like Genshin CC now. Don't get me wrong I played Wuwa and I like a lot of things Kuro did with the game but make no mistakes they are not perfect. They have done things that are questionable like the echo system, weekly cap on Calamity bosses and 50/50. These are not good designs imo.
Echo syatem by itself is fine imo, brother. But they should've given us a "pity" system in main stats drop for every off-piece we got. And should actually have some kind of substats and main stats modifier item just like HSR etc
@xxaviermmxx as someone who work 9-6 5 days a week and has a family to take care off, let me tell you brother it's not fine. The idea you can farm it in over world is good but it's too RNG. I am only aiming for double crits and not even min maxing but I wasted so much time and resources doing it. It doesn't feel good at all. The RNG system doesn't respect my time or other players time. The thing that you suggest is only a band aid solution. It can be good depending on how generous they are with the materials and how low the pity is. But it doesn't fix the core issue which is multiple layers of RNG on echoes and limited resources for echo upgrade. Don't defend these bad systems my brother. We all know they can do better.
@@xxaviermmxx it's not at all. you can use all 240 daily energy and cant even level one echo to max level.
Dude but thats gear on a nutshell thats not just a wuwa thing almost every gear system on gachas work that way
For your "not good designs" comment please hear this part of the video 36:43 - 37:23 they are making games not for charity but for profit also
The takes in this video about both Elden Ring and PGR are easily the most out of touch with reality takes that I've come across. For starters, literally no one plays Elden Ring like that, no one is booting up the game and going out to grind and upgrade their gear to max and then logging off the game, Elden Ring is not a live service game with finite daily resources, it is not even remotely comparable in any way to a live service Gacha Game.
The take about how PGR has issues retaining their players because they don't have to deal with a rng gearing is certainly a take lol. If PGR actually had issues with retaining it's players it would mean that they would not have made enough money to create Wuthering Waves, where do you think Kuro got the money for WuWa to begin with? PGR is one of the few games that actually handles gearing correctly since most of your time is spent by actually engaging with the game with it's plethora of events and endgame modes which is how it should be. No one should be defending the practice of spending the majority of your time spam farming braindead easy content for gear upgrades. This was a very obvious giveaway that you've clearly never played PGR.
People need to stop defending these volatile practices and trying to claim that games they clearly have never played are somehow worse than . There's always been this weird trend with people who play the newest game developed by a company, completely ignoring their previous titles and then when it suits a argument or point they are trying to make, they decide to start talking about the older game (that they've clearly never played and have no experience with) and use it to prop the newer game up that they cover. I normally like your content and takes Saint, but this ain't it bro.
I agree for the PGR part
Drop the Honor level lil bro, else you're coping
I’m a huge fan of wuwa and it has the best gearing system of the big 4 (Genshin, Wuwa, HSR, ZZZ)
But just because games like PGR and R1999 aren’t as popular doesn’t take away from the objective fact their gearing systems are even better
Why do you always put devs first, players second when discussing echoes? Why should we care about being retained in the game? Why does it matter if WuWa's gearing system is arguable better than GI's? I want to play because of combat and exploration, retain me by Illusive realm and other gamemodes. I spend 2 whole hours farming a stupid Heron and got THREE crit rates which all roll to shit. Can you finally acknowledge people's complains and stop being such shill
Looks like somebody doesn't respect your time or maybe that's the trade off of playing a beautiful game like wuwa
Because player retention is what keeps a game alive, especially if the vast majority of the playerbase doesn’t pay a penny for it, you out of touch, entitled bird-brain.
If people have no reason to actually play the game daily, they’ll quickly stop playing entirely. Where do you think Kuro would get the money to pay their employees to ‘entertain you’ with constant, repetitive events every single day? These things take time and money to create.
Have you killed all holo 6 bosses and 100% everything in the game? I doubt it. If you have, get a life.
I’m not saying the current echo RNG is a good thing, but saying that you want constant exploration and combat events is stupid.
@@Sagryl_the_Sentry_Constructso is calling someone names because of their opinion . You must know toxic positivity right ?
@@Sagryl_the_Sentry_Construct as i 4 y/o GI gamer you made me feel like at home with that comment. You know what? I think we could also get rid of skip button. People have to stay in the game otherwise the devs wouldn't be able to pay rent. Also bring back 50/50 on weapon banners! I'm so dumb for wanting a better gaming experience in my arrogance I probably made Dong cry! Thanks for bringing me on the right path. I was greedy and stupid
@PedroNemehiah I’m calling someone names, because their ‘opinion’ is severely misguided and based off of unrealistic expectations of a free game. This person is essentially asking for EVEN MORE content than Kuro’s already pumping out, because they can’t possibly stand a week just before a huge new update drops without some exciting new event to constantly stimulate their three bored braincells.
I'm sorry, Saint. This video and your takes in this are juat blatantly protecting a multi-million dollar company and encourage burnouts for players. If your concern and argument is player retention, then not fixing these RNG bulls in Wuwa will not only decrease player retention, but cause bunrouts most likely. What happens with burnouts? Uninstall.
I agree with you.
But I don't believe Saint is saying those systems are good.
Only that they are in place to make rich company richer.
@@lesath7883 He literally is praising wuwa for this system compared to other games when in actuality they all are Fing shit. Kuro doesn't get a pass because they kiss their players on the cheek.
@astralcomet674 You are right and I agree.
WuWa is a Level 4 gearing system and it has so much to improve and so many materials that are useless.
i think you guys are out of touch with reality. Gearing systems to drive engagement has been around since the early 90s in ultima online and everquest, getting gear IS THE END GAME thats the purpose of doing new raids in mmorpgs, the purpose of doing anything in a new content patch. Why did they add battlepasses in every game? to give you GEAR TO GRIND FOR. Even if you PERSONALLY dont think its true, market research and past titles SHOW IN HARD NUMBERS this drives engagement. guild wars 2 losing popularity so fast compared to mmorpg with stretch goals and item powercreep is a great example of why devs add targets for people to reach.
@@authenticinari-fox8164 bro that would be cool if we had enough resources to actually use to lvl up sad gears. Can you trash a trash echo for exp. I'm talk about echoes with wrong main Stat not the ones we lvl up. No we can't we gotta trash those to make room in our inventory. Those trash echoes have just wasted 60 of my waveplates. HSR system sucks dogwater when it comes to relics but one thing it got up on Wuwa is the exp. I can use 4 star drops and 5 star trash drops as exp material. That is what I want. It would make echo farming atleast a tiny bit better maybe even alot
What made me* quit Genshin, and it's not wuwa or powercreep, was the fact that i couldn't get A SINGLE PIECE from the emblem domain for my Raiden since she released for 3 damn years. Now in WuWa, i have all the event characters except zhezhi, and have them all built to a certain degree that i can clear toa with ease. I think this says much about how Genshin is ruined.
in Genshin, they release new characters faster than you can build one optimally.
is all the event characters you rolled all paid?
lol, i took 6 month for my raiden just to got 60/100 ratio, and i stop playing after that ahaha
In Wuwa you can only build a few echoes but it's also because you simply need less of them.
I guess that's why some people feel frustrated, but I don't feel that way because all of my char is also built and now I only need to grind echo for new char only, it's kinda funny because I'm an F2P player and never touching the tacet field outside of event, they really need to buff them.
@@kokoala9354yes, but even in WuWa I didn't get to build Xiangli Yao cause minmaxing Carlotta and Spectro Rover is being a hell for me.
i like how saint makes his entire opinion about any game within half a second, like claiming pgr has no players because the relics are "too easy to get" or a game was horrible and eos'd because it didnt make money, as well as comparing ww to pgr systems despite being completely differerent genres of games
That's the problem with most if not all of these mainstream Gacha cc. They justified BS within their game but when other game try to break from that BS apparently it becomes negative.
Well.. i personally played PGR from day1 and quitted multiple time exactly because i had nothing to do after building the new char except the same repeated "end game" that put the feeling of progression way too far from view. Basically one week of grinding event then the only progression is a far away dupe with ppc grind that take almost one patch to rich if i decide i need it. So i'm not sure how far he is from the reality.
He’s a braindead wuwa shill, his takes have no thoughts into them aside from Wuwa content
@Atmo-sp He is VERY far from reality especially for a casual PGR player.
Also, it makes me wonder if you've cleared the 3 roguelikes, and the permanent ones like Stronghold, Border Pact, Golden Vortex. Not to mention the limited events like Babel.
What you're saying is only true if you no-life it. In my case, I've been playing since Laurel's release and did not quit yet I haven't finished Golden Vortex and Stronghold as well as one of the roguelikes and many character stories. Which means after the daily and weeklies, I have other content to choose from.
@@hijodelsoldeoriente Everything you mentioned is a one time thing, when you finished it you don't play it anymore except Babel that is a recurent event that is cleared like any other event when it pops out.
And i absolutly talk about casual players... Hardcore player on the other end are the one with meaningfull things to do with the multiple leaderboard or doing no hit runs etc...
If you didn't clear the one time content in 3 years i don't know what you are actualy doing in the game but good for you if you didn't play enough to have things you can choose to i guess not play.
8:17 here we go again with you talking about something you literally know nothing about Saint.
In PGR, it's not the gear grind that you return to everyday. We log-in everyday because THERE IS ACTUAL CONTENT. Either part of the weekly grind, bi-monthly grind, limited events, or permanent events. The daily grind loop in PGR doesn't leave us frustrated because it's practically auto-clearing the limited patch event to get tickets, then exchange those tickets for anything we like. Practically NO RNG. Then picking we weekly or bi-monthly endgame like PPC, Warzone, Clash Reflections, or Norman War. After that we clear dorm commissions. Then from there are so many event limited and permanent content to choose from.
We PGR and WuWa players are literally telling you how it is because we actually play both games unlike you who doesn't. It's to give you a perspective since we know you're ignorant about it and that's ok.
What's not ok is when you talk about something you don't know a single drop of and then present yourself as all-knowing.
You're also resorting to logical fallacies. Implying that PGR has less players or less popular and that's because it has less tedium for grinding gear than WuWa? Seriously? WE RETURN FOR ACTUAL CONTENT. Not boring gear grind like mindlessly using stamina in Tacet Fields. It exists in PGR don't get me wrong, but the daily loop is less tedious except that annoying dorm which will be improved in tñnext patches.
As for WuWa not following PGR's system, it's because Genshin is the industry leader and they decide to stoop as low. And we're not suggesting for WuWa to copy PGR's system cause they don't share the same genre afterall. PGR is frankly a menu simulator and WuWa is open-world.
What we're suggesting is to shift the daliy log-in incentive from boring Tacet Field clears and RNG gear to actual content.
And Saint, WuWa is frankly doing what it's sister game is doing. WuWa has practically 1 end-game with ToA. Plus 1 weekly after 2.1. then 1 permanent content with dreamlink. Then recurring limited ones like Pincer Maneuver, Tactical, Illusive Realm etc.
Point is, WuWa is also shifting the daily log-in incentive from gear grind to actual content. I'm willing to bet that WuWa will only improve upon the gear grinding system when there's many content in the game to replace the gear geind daily loop into actual content most players enjoy.
You are wrong, 10s of thousand of players play Elden ring daily. They start new playthrough and play with different equipment. One of the best things about Elden ring, is the huge variety of different way the game can be played. Because of the gears, consumables, spells, and so on. You can see that with some youtubers that play daily with wildly different build every times. I do not play Elden ring every days, but I do come back every month or two, to try a new run with a different build.
and most players, just like you, come back to the game after a few months. I don't typically meet an elden ring player that plays daily for years
@@09syl-41 You do not look at the right place, and you underestimate some people. If I would have got a game like Elden ring in my youth, I probably would have been one of them, trying over and over to see the craziest way I could beat the game.
@shades909 over the years, there are lesser and lesser daily players
You guys forget about pvp, you want to talk about elitism . Not to mention the new Elden ring .
What people are saying is that it’s delusional to compare a “normie “ game with a gacha
The experiences are different completely . Just like zzz and wuwa shouldn’t be compared neither should wuwa or any other gacha to a game like Elden ring . Love saint ….totally horrible take
@PedroNehemiah I agree that elden ring shouldn't be compared to these gacha games, I was letting the other person know that daily players slowly go down over the years for elden ring
PGR and Reverse 1999 have to be the gems of gear systems in gachas, in pgr u can simply choose which stat of crit, atk, skill buff u wana choose to add, granted it does take some grind, but its not rng, reverse has the little puzzle solver, in their gear where u fit pieces of crit, atk, hp, heal buffs together and they give u more by levelling characters
Love those 2 games, I'm playing them together with Wuwa. The Only RNG in PGR probably is the resonance but still you can use a selector for that.
I love R1999 Resonance/Reasoning, it's like a tetris where you choose your own stats. Plus they dont have a weapon banner, so you only have to pull for the character. Their "weapon" is free and you can buy it at the event shop or the shop in general.
@@ChanKichii yes agreed, pgr is my fav of all time, love it so much, less grind more combat, as for reverse its definitely a cozy strategic game, with alot of content but it was a bit too boring for me lol
but no gambling :(
Reverse 1999 mentioned 🔥🔥🔥
Exactly why bro didn't add the Resonance puzzle thingy, that was basically an artifact but built to your desire
Games with so many "experts" but cant think of anything pro consumer things to keep player retention but RNG, nice. Modern generation or players/users' brain has already been molded into this genshitification style. Equipment is just another gambling element without money and pay with time.
Saint this may have been your Worst video, so far Also you show signs of Toxic Positivity
Also think of this will it kill the game for more echo material. No because people that dont care much about substats already are stacking that materail. people that are finishing building are still hitting the lack of Double Crit on substats and people that are done may think that minmaxxing may be worth and not a complete waste of time. Also a way to guarantee a substat by a limited event item will only make people happy about the game and not kill it by being bored
Also for every game.... It can be boring to see 1 week of grinding Tacet fields and only have 1 piece with double Crit.... Yeah that can also lead to player rage.
How do you still have material to level new echoes.... Im a spender and im still trying to get that double crit in my sets (and i do levelling on +5 and always stop at +15 if no Crit)
At 25:03 you ignore the part of way to reroll substats just ponting it out
Elder Ring is a finish game and doesn't have FOMO no timegated rewards/items and has a geat replayability but even that comes to and end. on a Liver service game we have time limited events/banners, rewards you name it but for those that dont care a lot they can smply come a week per patch and be done with story exploration and after.... In my book is the same has elder ring your done. Even Wuwa can be a 2 minute dailys and log out No waveplate no exp material nothing to do move to another. Every gacha game is a side game. Only at day 1 of patch his when they are Main game material.
Bro this type of games have a lot of professionals so that they make you spend money thats why in early ages of gacha games there where people spending life savings on games.
LOL Saint on PGR you are so wrong. In a sense PGR is a niche game because of its sweaty nature fights arent easy they take skill and its more like the opposite of what you said the issue its to much content the fact that its not a begginer friendly game and powercreep is real. The game only starts after you are finish the gear only after you may finish some of the hardest content in the game. Every PGR player that plays WuWa wants Hologram level fights or even harder. I know what Kuro can make and im hoping to see it in WuWa in the next year. But yeah on PGR your take is Unbased.
33:47 Yeah true but it the player experience can also be better
Best regards
I decided to take a break in my second wuwa account because my echo rolls are terrible 😢 I'm there ul 73 and I cannot make toa in the main account rolling echoes is smoothly it's luck?
Tier 1 is why game like R1999 or Arknights is a godsend on the RNG gear bullshit, I would rather grind like this because I knew at the end whatever I do will contribute to my account growth and and not once feeling setbacks because I got shitty/Incorrect stats or low rolls stats from gearing RNG.
i like how pseychie put wuwa in tier 4 making it the second worst of the gearing in gacha and my guy is still glazzing it
are you surpised? Man i can visualize WuWas ThiCC Wuthering Pencil in this guys mouth everytime he opens his mouth. I have never seen a glazer on par with Mr.Pokke. This isnt even a kurobot he ascended to another GLAZE lvl.
@@astralcomet674bro I could see ifhe was sponsored ->taking every inch of Solon and Dong(ironically )front of the superbowl ending up with a $$$ shot in the face . But it gets really really bad , I’m subbed to him on twitch and it gets insufferable at times - at the same time I really do think he can truly be the number one WuWa streamer , if he doesn’t turn the rest of the gAcHA audience against himself with toxic positivity and elitism . Tectone seriously had chatters coming from saints chat and going back tattling to saint how flawed teccy’s gameplay was
You know what I do when I finish grinding for all my characters? Stockpile on resources cause I know there's gonna be MORE characters I want in the future. Or enjoy the parts of the game I hadn't gotten to because so much of my time was spent getting bent over by rng building my characters.
I hate when progress for my efforts is so dependent on elements completely out of my control. I could get all the gear and substats I want by tomorrow, or I might not get them for months. It's not up to me no matter how optimally I farm everything, and that has always annoyed me. I'd rather have a slow meticulous grind I know will take me weeks to collect all the mats than one that's so out of my control
How does an archaic gatcha like fgo managed to have zero rng for building your characters but all these modern gatchas are so fixated on these awful gear systems?
Well said. If i don't get a god gear set for my favorite character within 4 days worth of energy farming I will highly likely uninstall the game. We got upcoming agents to pre farm for DEVS BETTER LISTEN
I agree. There will always be new characters. THAT's the content that will have me log in.
"Nobody plays elden ring every single day." I've never heard such out of touch take in my life. 😂
BRO I had to rewind the video because I thought I misheard that . That comment put my brain in vaporlock
and here I am with 733hrs in Elden Ring with shit ton of MODS hahaha
What only playing gacha games does to you
most people myself included dont play elden ring everyday. Ill beat a souls game, maybe do a challenge run outta no where cuz I saw a speedrun then dont touch the game again for a while. hes completely right
fr
Grinding RNG is not content... is time gated progress, because resources you need to upgrade gear are time gated, so, unless you're insane lucky, you will end without some resource. and the amount of resources/time is increased in and RNG amount for each bad piece.
And WuWa has a good amount of REAL content, and a could even use some of the old content as means to get a couple rewards in a lower rate, for example.
And well... I play FFXIV... have almost 10k hours in it. The gearing in the game is straight forward to a level that you can calculate the amount of weeks to get a perfect set, because the BiS in the game is locked behind week limits. And if you get lucky with rolls in raid, you lower these weeks in 1, 2 or even 4 weeks... for each good roll... so if you're good enough playing, you can gear up everything in 2~8 weeks... and the rest of time? people will grind for cosmetics, achievments, mounts, etc... and even things with RNG drop, you have some token system where after N times, you just buy the item...
In the end of the day, having a progression you can measure the max time to get something makes things less frustrating...
Sorry but I take time over rng anyday knowing my hard earn resources is actually being use for something that I GUARANTEED to actually get
Bro thinks if a gacha game doesn't have tedious grind for gear, it will EoS and make no money, lmao. Grinding echoes in 1.4 after I have done all the content almost made me burned out on WuWa
It's not wrong tho, aside from pulling new units gear farming is the main thing keeping ppl logging in everyday. Also If you were farming overworld all the time then yeah you'll get burned out, i personally just just do tacet field then when i want to play more i'd farm the overworld
@@Ulquiorra_Cifer and that's bad game design imo. If they want player retention and daily-logins, they need to add actual content and not just gear grind. They do this in PGR too so they know what and how to do it. Perhaps it's just too early to replace the daily loop.
Pgr is dead in the dirt@@hijodelsoldeoriente
@@Ulquiorra_Cifer farming tacet fields have to be the BIGGEST scam of energy. SO little exp for doing it. With the amount of dogshit rolls i get from time to time you will think i can actually scrap some of the echoes that dont have the right main stats for exp. But no i have to delete them from my inventory and get back no exp for wasted energy.
@@hijodelsoldeorienteIts not bad game design, its why mmorpgs have adopted this gear stretch goal system since the olden days, its why every patch has new zones and new stretch goals. just because you dont like it doesnt mean its bad. this sounds a lot like poe2 gear grind vs diablo 4 where casual d4 players prefer less hours and say poe2 needs too much time to get anything done, but this is what poe players like and why people play long after a patches launch.
I love Wuwa but every single one of these gearing systems are fucking terrible. If you want to keep player retention high without all the tedious mechanics just have actual content and actually good endgame modes
Out of touch take on the elden ring part. If souls games or sekiro was available on mobile i would not even consider playing wuwa, or greedhoyo games.
Souls games on phone they would need to be scaled down and probably would run on high end devices
Definitely gonna have to disagree with that take on Elden Ring. That game has immense replay value. There's a lot of people (me being one of them) that regularly play the game just doing different playthroughs with different builds.
How about this idea for upgrade Wuthering Waves?
Weekly bosses will receive a special item, which will drop with a 100% probability in the amount of 1 item and with a 50% probability in the amount of 2 items.
This item can be used in the echo so that we can choose the substat ourselves when tuning, but a maximum of 2 items can be used in each echo.
Thus, players who fail to get good echo substat due to lack of luck are more likely to be able to get them without burnout. And people who don't want to spend a lot of time on echo farms, too, and at the same time, the element of luck does not disappear completely.
Let's summarize:
- Each week, players will receive from 3-6 special items.
- They will have more confidence when leveling up the echo.
- And at the same time, they will still need to farm resources to upgrade them, just like the echoes themselves.
- When new echo kits appear, players will be able to farm them with more motivation, knowing that they have a certain guarantee when pumping them just like when new characters appear.
- And players who want to upgrade as much as possible will also have a greater desire to improve more different characters, as they will be able to choose echoes that are more suitable for their specialization.
If you like this idea, spread it as widely as possible and suggest it in a survey to make it more likely to be implemented.
@@CellMortem ait sir will save this in note. Not a bad idea. Based on your suggestions in 2-3 weeks, in 1 patch maybe 2 set of echoes. Players can build a complete set of echoes without getting fully drained by RNG. It will surely reduce burnout and it gives players a sense of control and idea on how long it will take them to build 1 set of echoes if they have the worst luck. It will surely motivates players and players will have something concrete to look forward too at the end of the grind. Thank you for your service. If it were me I would just say echo suck ballz so please fix them.
I suggest to not talk about pgr o elden ring because you never played them and it shows.
Saintontas reacting to my other favorite gacha. Wuwa imo could do without RNG. FOMO is solved by the daily astrites. I think wuwa could benefit from a system where u could sub one substat or pick one.
This. I don't even mind if it will need more materials as long as it will remove the RNG. The problem with this game is some players just don't want innovation when the echo system still has a lot of room for improvement. They were like "don't touch our game, the echo system is already perfect it is better than Hoyo". Nope, it is just as bad as Hoyo's (only slightly better).
5:24 I beg to differ. HSR is a nightmare to grind stats for, but once I'm done, my time is spent in the simulated universe, you know, the actual endgame content
I think we need to move the conversation away from how to make the gearing system easier to how to make it more fun, and why do we love the grind in some games, but not in others?
For me its the game system, I usually hate farming enemies or gathering plants in an openworld game but because I enjoy Wuwa's combat a whole lot I just end up having an abundance of random loot cuz I want to engage and fight enemies.
@@unloyal4847 I completely agree, and that's why I want to focus on that aspect of it. The combat is what drives you to grind echo. That a great start to this conversation. What drives someone to grind? I also want to look at other games to see why people enjoy the grind in them. Like, what make someone do rift after rift in Diablo 3, or die again and again in Hades? What makes those grinds fun?
The only thing I'd add is having some hard-guaranteed stuff that you eventually earn while spending plates on tacet fields. Like some special tuners that give you the substat you want or max the already tuned substat to its max value. But the game is fully clearable with shitty echoes with single crits in substats, and Mr. Snowman already proved is multiple times.
Saint you were as delusional as Hoyoshills alot of these aren't bad, they are simplified and I could disagree more with the PGR diss as I started PGR recently and I love it, there is never not something to do and building is less RNG related and it allows me to put my actual skills to the test with daily and weekly necessities unlike other gacha games it's almost impossible to run out of things to do unless you play it for hours on end every single day. I recommend if you preach Kuro on every video that you see where they risen from.
I think thats bs to assume that once you grind out your perfect character, you have no reason to play the game anymore. umm events exist? content exists? just because you can max out a character faster, doesnt mean the gearing system is bad. do you want people to play a game for 30 mins a day or something? whats wrong wtih doing dailies and playing other games? so long as the player is coming back to do the dailies/weeklys, thats the engagement. Are you just arguing for people to play a game longer for what tho? theirs many other games out there and not having to dump 3+ hrs a day onto one because you want to try and grind out a good gear set with a shit or less optimized system doesnt help the game. it becomes a slog.
another delusional take. it absolutely does matter. look at guild wars 2, look at Diablo 4, they have terrible player retention post patch compared to WoW, FFXIV, PoE because they have STRETCH GOALS. gearing systems are STRETCH GOALS.
Why don't gacha devs take those billions they're making from our gambling addiction, and provide actual fun gameplay that retains us in game and keeps us playing daily. RNG systems are just a cheap stop-gap to fool players into unnecessarily wasting time in the game. You keep defending those systems, as if you need to be personally tricked into sticking with the game. Good games retain players without tricks, that's because the fun of the gameplay itself keeps them coming back. And "better than" doesn't mean good, especially if the bar you're comparing it against, is on the floor. Yes, echo system is better than artifacts, it's still bad though. Kuro should have imported their own PGR gear system into WuWa, instead of jumping on the genshitification bandwagon.
And yes, people still play Elden Ring, Skyrim, Civ, offline GTA, Stardew Valley, BG3, Factorio, and what have you (other single player games) daily/weekly. 50k people played Elden Ring in the last 24h on Steam alone. Hell, people still pick up Dark Souls for the billionth time to this day. They do it, because they find those games fun (and also mods exist).
You have secluded yourself to the gacha space so hard, that outside of it, you just have no idea how fun and satisfying properly designed game experiences can be. How the gameplay itself can be the one, single factor that draws you in and keeps you in; no tricks, no predatory tactics required. You probably never experienced well designed progression & satisfying gameplay loop, so you are simply unaware of that great feeling of "I can't get enough of this game" that makes people coming back for more, over and over again, often accompanied by thoughts of "just one more turn"/ "just one more hour"/ "just one more run".
ngl, I haven't even finished the video yet but from skimming through the comments for like a minute or so... you're kinda getting cooked i fear
2781 hours in Elden Ring here btw
Gear grinding ≠ player retention(or content filler) ….regardless it’s a gacha game
I will say though WUWA is by far one of the best there should be an auto stat every five levels
FGO being one of my longest played gachas , there is literally no powercreep characters get buffed constantly and even one star characters can be VERY OP .trade off …what we fate players say -gacha hell aka 331 pity😅
I shuddered hearing about HI3rd and seeing E7(wyvern hunt ptsd)
Yeah, surely anyone who both play Hoyo games and WuWa who says WuWa's gearing system is much worse is lying. True!
But the echo system is still bad. It has a lot of room for improvement but I guess you guys are just fine for it being mediocre.
Shame though because the devs themselves want the game to improve but you don't want to say it on your feedback on how bad it is.
Exactly! Improving the echo system hurts no one-it just lets more people enjoy the game. Idk why people keep arguing, gatekeeping like they’re protecting it when they’re just holding it back
It's nowhere near "bad" that's just an asinine take. It definitely can be improved like all things in any game. There will always be room for improvement. Echo system is still one of the top gearing systems in the gacha space and definitively the best in the most popular list.
@@N_Human perfectly rated as bad. If I go with numbers let's say out of 10. It is 4/10 with 5 being average. So 4 is bad.
A lot of players are frustrated after rolling with echoes. That is enough to rate it as bad. You can even use your own words to describe your own take lol.
I think it's day 3 since I encounter Tacet Fields on this game and I outright knew it was horrible, that's why I avoid it like a plague. Same with echo rolling but since it's not as bad as HSR. I'm in a delusion that it's fine.
After months of playing I have all characters at level 90. And weekly boss have limited runs so I'm force to run the garbage Tacet Fields. Since I have more materials for echoes, that's when I realized that it's not fine, it's bad lol.
A best gearing system is the one who has no gears. Equipment is just fine.
@@cassandra2646 Again, it's better than Genshin, better than ZZZ, better than HSR, better than Nikke it's better than every major revenue puller gacha game in the space. it's nowhere near bad again to call it that is purely asinine. You can easily get a char to clear endgame content in 1-3 days I do it with every single one. It isn't hard just requires some brainpower and nuance of which the community admittedly lacks considering they just +25 slam everything and don't even know about the recycle system to get your materials back instead of feeding them into even more dogshit pieces. It is OBJECTIVELY one of the best gearing systems. #1 you can farm infinitely (no other major game lets you do this) #2 you only need to roll ONE substat per piece #3 you can actually use the echoes in battle so you actually get variety in combat and gameplay if you aren't a minmaxer you also have shiny versions for collectors and more casual players. Again is it perfect? Hell no but you just rambled about it being bad without giving a single shred of reasoning other than you couldn't do it so it's bad. A large group of people who can't do math doesn't make 4+4 = 9 no matter how badly they say it does. Half of the people complaining have no idea how to navigate and utilize the systems the game has provided to you. People really are braindead these days.
@@N_Human clearing ToA doesn't mean I can pass echo system for being bad. It needs an improvement. People like you are the problem in these games. That's why it couldn't improve. I have cleared ToA with hybrid garbage, decent stats +25 echoes but like I said it's not right to just accept this low quality gearing system.
I said clearly that echo rolling is bad. You might have luck on your RNG. I saw other people praising echo system then now are confused if the system has a less chance to get crit.
No, that's not how it goes. It's RNG. If they are hitting double crits months ago it's just their luck is good at that time. Now it's biting them at the back since they have bad luck. That's why this needs to improve. There's a lot actually, increase exp. Can even transfer substat. Or just reroll one substat on your +25. Or even can pick a substat you want. See that's how many the system can improve. That's why I rate it as 4/10. If it is not as expensive to level an echoes then I will rate it as 5. But since RNG is the bigger part of the system and there's a layer of it like 6.3-6.9% crit rate is common to get. While 9 - 10 crit rate is just as low as getting a 5 star. That's what makes it bad. Get real lol.
Your takes on both Honkai Impact 3rd and PGR show you know nothing about those games. I enjoy your content most of the time, I also often agree with you. But man, you're either grossly misinformed or just taking your own guesswork and using it to argue why it's worse than WuWa.
Unless your luck is trash and you don't play much, forging Stigma pieces in HI3 won't take that long.
A "few months" would be if you were to forge a whole set, and then level them to max. 3 weeks is enough to forge one, leveling them up will take more if you're going from zero. But you get 1 Source Prism a week from Memorial Arena, 6 from the free BP, a bunch from events, and I think there is one more source though I can't remember, I think there are a couple in the Shop every patch. You also get a bunch of dupes when pulling for the weapon you can later dismantle for more Source Prisms.
Even as F2P, combined with the Stigma selector box you get for every new character, you get enough materials to level up the whole Stigma set to max *every* patch. Only cases where you wouldn't have enough is if you don't play enough to get all the free Prisms, or if you get the weapon and two different pieces as your first three 4 stars, so you don't have enough dupes to salvage. So either skill issue or luck issue.
I'm not a spender aside from the monthly pass sometimes (not even the BP), my luck is average at best (characters at about 60 pity, and weapons around 30-40 pity), and even though I've pulled every Part 2 Valkyrie aside from Lantern and SIMP, I was able to gear them no problem. There was only one time I didn't have enough Source Prisms to level up all the Stigma to 50 on week 1, and had to farm more Prisms.
So I can confidently say: "you're wrong, Saintontas."
PGR is similar. The purpose isn't to gear characters, the Memory System is mostly there to provide stats, different utility like Res Shred, Healing, or QTE, and improving the corresponding character's skills. PGR doesn't actually have problem retaining players because while they don't have to waste time farming RNG gear, there is a lot of competitive combat content (like the weekly Pain Cage and Warzone), a lot of challenge modes, events, story content, and *three* rogue-like modes.
You just *think* nobody plays PGR because it's a pretty niche game in the West, with mostly veterans or smaller circles playing the game. It's still huge in China, generating enough revenue theat Kuro keeps pumping out good content, continues improving the game, and had enough money to fund the development of Wuthering Waves.
I think you said a few times in earlier videos you played Elden Ring? I find this doubtful, because nobody plays the game like that. Ignoring the fact you would need to play months, thousands of hours to level a single character to max, even with Rune farming methods, without resorting to cheating. You don't play it for a long time with logn pauses inbetween, there are literally no time constraints. You can play every day for half an hour, but you can also play a few hours on weekends, and nothing changes about your experience. Nor does it in any way affect your progression.
Your arguments make no sense from a player side with half a brain intact. No one in his right mind wants to grind for gear ad nauseum in any game. People want to complete the game. In single player skill-based games like Elden Ring, the point is* completing the story, and you can do that on lvl 1 with a broken weapon if you have the skill and patience. That goes for a lot of skill-based games. In gacha, even if you are extremely skilled, the games are made to have as many RNG daily grinding tasks/elements as possible while locking away power behind these, as well as behind characters and weapons. Yes, the devs want you to come back and spend money, that doesn't mean the systems are good. Sure one system maybe less predatory than the other but every single gacha system is conditioning you to come back and play or spend, as much and as long as possible. Yes, genshin's gearing is shit, but so are most other gacha games. Even wuwa's system is inherently predatory, even if I, too, think it at least feels better than genshin's or anything hoyo has put out. That doesn't make it a good system from a player's side by a long shot, it's heavily dependent on RNG, not on either skill or even effort, as some people claim ("If you grind hard enough, you'll get the gear, bruh!"). No, I don't want to do the same stupid crap every single day till I die. The less a game depends on repetitive grinding, the better. I just want to have fun collecting and playing my favorite characters in an interesting world or an interesting story. I want to play a game, not work after work.
I do, in fact, come back to PGR daily to play the various endgame modes with my fully built characters. I actually don't run characters that aren't fully geared. What I don't do is make gacha games my raison d'etre.
Even with the Elden Ring take, bro is already exposed on how out of touch this guy is.
You took an L on this one but don't become the pokke of Wuwa a few bad takes can definitely slide but don't make it a habbit
I heard that Endfields don't have the RNG artifacts bs. I hope it is true and the game successes and show the gacha world that you do not need RNG gearing to pad the stat
It does and it’s pretty complicated. Basically there is just one artifact to farm, but has at least 4 layers RNG: Rarity (up to Gold), Number of lines (up to 3), What stat the line boosts (way too many to count), and By how much that line is boosted (up to +4 or +6 depending on the stat). If one stat doesn’t match the weapon, that stat won’t do anything. Essences can’t be upgraded so the moment you get it, it’s at the best that it can be. However, there are a ton of possible combinations, especially since two lines can affect the same stat, and even the highest rarity might not have the maximum number of lines
Alternate title: Hoyo deserves an apology
For not having the worst gear system somehow
2:04 Uhm....you play the endgame content? Thats literally why it has "end"-"game" in the name. What you do after you're done with the game. Not grinding for stats. Unless the game doesn't have good endgame content. It should have boss battles, fresh game mechanics that allow you try out your characters
Saint I respect a lot of your opinion but on Elden Ring is a no no buddy .
Elden Ring till this day after 3 years still on top 50 most played game on Steam, that is great for a single player game .
The game also have PvP content if your are truly looking for blood.
Even their CC, new and old still can make content from it , that how big the game is .
TBH, I'd rather deal with % drop chances than having to farm for bullshit random substats
Why bro didn't add the Resonance it's basically a artifact but you build it yourself the way you want to bro is not playing R99 properly
Plus the R99 selling point is the story they make a good story plus really good voice acting
2:18 hard disagree instead of equip grind just add more modes, if currency is an issue add titles, cosmetics, medals, etc. there is no need for equip grind to be some "hard requirement". Its a game, not a job.
The best gear system in my opinion is the gear system in Phantasy Star Online 2. In that game, you can literally transfer the attributes of your previous gear to a new gear that you want but the catch is there is a chance of failure for one or more attributes during the attributes transfer and your previous gear is gone forever.
The thing is I farmed for diluc pyro set for a full year and still I had a med build because artifacts main stats RNG drop is trash but now in wuwa somehow I have every character built with it own echoes set the thing that I noticed that echo exp are locked behind events and shops because the amount you get from there it's more then enough you just need to be an active player
Ye one thing I've noticed is that they are very generous in the echo materials to the point where I basically never farm them using my resin. That all goes towards weapon ascension and upgrading abilities, which I find so much more balanced compared to genshin where everything requires resin to farm. Once it's used up for the day, there isn't much to do
So much this, I actually don't need to get the "perfect" stats on the get go cuz as long as your using the right base stats your good to go. plus they keep giving us those echo boxes that I'm always full of echos that I'm having a hard time managing them even when I regularly merge echos.
Same here farmed for ayato for a year and not a single good echo that and dehya being shit because she was standard was the reason I dropped genshin
I don't play Genshin but I see a lot of people who have played both saying echo system is way much better. I believe it because I have enough teams with double crits.
There are people who say echo is a** I believe them as well but it's because of several reasons.
Lack of XP and tubes (we actually have various rotating and other events that give materials)... I think a lot do +25 which is a quick waste of resources when it rolls bad.
+15 is the ideal I would say
Fyi you need 8 XP tubes for +15 while 29 XP tubes for +25. This is where resource management comes in. With the +15 formula I am actually limiting the wasted materials granting my rolls are so bad. Not only that I get to roll more like 3 times which means more chances to get the desired stats.
Farming echoes with the right stat. Worse case scenario you are not very lucky, you don't get them but since you can farm infinite echoes your chances go up. But let's say it's still so bad. It has a safety net, you can combine them to acquire new echoes and that is a good thing even if it's random because it gives another chance. In my case I have yet to encounter this as an issue since I have more than enough echoes with the right main stats locked for future use.
People with no time. There is nothing we can do. I mean the game gives you many ways to acquire echoes from simply logging in to doing some easy events, buying some in shops and exploring but yeah I mean you don't have time. This game still requires some of your time.
Well to ease the burden for those who can barely play, perhaps they can make an event of increase drop of the right main stat.
Seen a couple of this guys videos and he really has a habit of repeating things for emphasis, he really has a habit of repeating things for emphasis.
8:00 bro at this point u are liretally dening the qol for the relics for what, more player attention this is only going to spell out a recipe for disater in the long run like many other live service games that try to do this
Stop crashing out for a second, and realize he is just pointing out a potential problem (a very real one) with “easy gearing” is that people are done grinding so they don’t keep playing, and that is a fair take.
And he just pointed out other gacha games tried to be different (pgr and r1999) and then failed to keep their players. Many live service did it, some failed and some works too. I understand the frustration but implementing such qol have potential risk for the game. People often just look at the surface and disregard the iceberg underneath.
@@kenchen704they should probably give players something to do instead of chasing stats for months
@@su3tJust because they failed doesn't mean what they're doing doesn't improve the overall system to begin with. I would not even consider r1999 failed either as the target audience was always the niche side community from the very beginning
@@raito07 All I want to say is that they need to carefully discuss such systems and release it with the right amount. I want to improve my 4/5 echoes ofc. But I also don't want to feel like all my efforts in the last 7 months of me tuning echoes go to the drain. It's hard - yes - and the fact that it is hard to get keeps me farming and testing whenever i get a good piece. I don't want it to be like PGR where you can just stack 12 red usb and max out every pieces of gear the first day one character releases.
Ahhh yes Wuwa allows you to grind echo infinitely i respect it - but like is there a really some casual does grind echoes 1-2 hours a day going out to other worlds and uses the most effective nerd map to grind them echoes effectively and still can get trash and the cycle repeats daily till it isn’t? how many of you guys actually do that daily ? Instead of just burning your stamina directly and logging off ?
gear farming is worst and most boring way to make players keep playing game especially when there is no certainty when your characters will be built according players satisfaction
"but easy gearing means less player retention 🤡"
then add weekly combat events, reset holograms every month or 2 weeks etc.
kuro should focus on improving their gameplay loop instead of adding photo mode and ray tracing.
Sorry Saint but for this video, you have no idea what you are talking about. You are always saying that random gear is needed for developers to keep players playing, but that's not my issue, they are adding bad systems to the game to make you login on daily basis? Why should I praise that? If they want me to keep coming every day they should give me something to do that I actually want to do, not a random shit that most of the time is not worth doing. They are just taking the easy way cos they don't know how to properly do it, and I'm getting a worse experience because of it.
What matters to me is my experience playing, which is horrible because of the random gear. In all the mainstream games (most of which I've dropped already because of the gear system), I always have a ton of characters in my box waiting to be geared, something that will never happen cos I never finish gearing my main ones. In genshin, before I stopped playing, I stopped pulling new characters cos I still had a ton of characters to build, how is that beneficial to the company? And how is that a good experience for me?
And sorry but even if wuwa has a slightly better system, is still dogshit for the same reasons. I can't see myself building all the characters I want, let alone building different sets of equipment for one character now that we will be able to easily switch between them. And before you said anything, you are not relatable here, you are a tryhard that farms constantly and probably even refresh stamina to do so, you are not a casual player like me that struggles to even get one character geared cos I don't have all the time in the world to do it.
It's my own opinion, it's fine if you disagree with it.
I'm playing Arknights everyday for 4th year now and there's a few reasons for it:
1) Characters, it's not hard to her desired character in Arknights, you only need to relay on your luck, cuz devs give enough pull currency and I never felt it's not enough.
2) Lore and story (main story, side story, characters stories). I think Arknights world and it's story is one of the most interesting I ever heard of, I played GI (abandoned) and it's story and lore wasn't THIS interesting. WuWa's story and etc. are interesting to me btw, can't wait for the new main story.
3) Playstyle which stimulates my brain to think. Yes, you always can use Wis'Adel - the cheat button or other overpowered operators, but there's still gamemodes that give me a tough time, so I gotta think what should I do.
4) Magnificent art style of the artists and the music. I'm in love with Arknights music and ost as well as operators (and their skins) art.
Tbh Limbus Company has a REALLY hard fucking combat system and many are drawn out by it, but if you take the time to learn it (at least the basics) eventually it gets a bit better.
Nikke is misinfo.
You can literally bypass all of the "farm" using the cashshop
eh you can buy item for rng blue crystal? I'm not expert on Nikke, just play casually dan daily.
@@Nihilism420 yes you can even buy the required gear from packs oftentimes.
@@emilimia so i can get black stats rng from there? damn..
@@Nihilism420 no you can get more rocks tho. Given how lvl 7 kraken treats me id benefit from it
You cant pay rng mate
7:42 if you think gear is the substantial part of nikke's character power scaling YOU'RE CLEARLY DELULU
Endfield has a gearing system because it's what Genshin and then WuWa did. Both Endfield and WuWa are following the same template with a few changes each. That doesn't mean Endfield is fixing anything about Arknights, it means the devs wanted to make an open world exploration gacha RPG and Genshin Impact was the way to go as a tried and true example.
Arknights has an interesting and varied enough gameplay that in my opinion it doesn't need any relic/artifact/echo grinding. You can play the roguelike modes to challenge yourself, there's Reclamation Algorithm for endgame character checks. I still have a lot of characters I'm building, but it's in-game materials for mastery and modules that I'm missing and in the end it's for the sake of having more variety in my teambuilding, more options for who I can use, rather than in other games being stuck on trying to build a few characters that I just can't seem to get the right RNG pieces for.
If the only way a game can retain players is by keeping them stuck on a gear treadmill, then it's a failure of the game itself, not an example for the gear treadmill being a good thing.
If anything i learned from rpg, progression behind RNG is always been bad.
So no matter how much better Wuwa than Genshin or HSR or any other gacha games. It is still shit.
The one issue I still have with WuWa's system is I never have enough xp mats to even get close to keeping up with the amount of bad rolls I get. I think the best piece i've gotten so far is a 3/5 mid stat roll and I've been playing since launch.
How high so you level your echoes before you discard them ?
I used to have a similar problem that and low space but after changing the way I level up my echoes I solved both issues, now the limit rather than exp has become having the correct main stat echoes
@@Sthhuihryjbtijhuijnn I stop at 1-2 rolls. I stop at 1 if it's a flat stat I don't want and at 2 when I don't get a stat I want.
Realistically, you only need 3 good substat like cr/cd and any other dmg ones. If you've played since launch, you should have those atleast for your dps in every piece.
@ You'd think that but the majority of my rolls have been flat, basic stat rolls
@ Stupid UA-cam didn’t send my reply, let’s try again. I usually stop at 1-2 rolls based off of how they roll.
Bro got tired of enemy fire an now wants friendly fire to boot 😂
14:56 Take that back, or imma call WuWa shit. Limbus is only shit it you have skill issue or you don't know how to read. The combat in that game is leagues above other games, since you actually have to strategize agaisnt some bosses or you're getting curbstomped harder than Hologram fights.
7:20 Nah, you can't fucking compare nikke's gear sistem to wuwa, genshin and hsr lmao
the sistem itself is completely different, you get a piece of gear of the same manufacturer as the nikke (the gear all have the same stats), level it up to max (easy) and only then can you overload it and give it substats using a resource that in end game, where this sistem matters, it's really easy to get
Also, you can reroll as much as you want so long as you have the resource and can lock good substats so they don't reroll
Pseyche didn't explain much about Limbus Company EGO System, you can't get EGO dupes from the gacha, once you get it you can't get it again. One convenient thing about Limbus Company is you can get identity shards from EGO crates to "dispense" either EGO or identity for that character
True. I also find it weird how Saintontas view on gacha games that doesn't have artifacts or equipments system rng as a negative thing like sure the game will not make user play a long time, thus causing the game not as mainstream. However he gotta know that even we as players don't have many free time in our life thus this type of gacha games is refreshing because it doesn't force us to invest a lot of time on it like we do some daily things for 30 minutes and that's it you're good to go maybe go do your homework, chores, or maybe play another game. Saintontas is viewing this game as a content creator which yeah I get it, but not everyone have that a lot of time to invest in playing games.
@@FateShadow643 most of the time LCB players spent their time (if they have available time) in the MD mines to get enough crates to dispense EGOs and Identities, or just simply save up for the next release.
@@FateShadow643I think Saint's viewing it in a more of a revenue stand points. He's thinking which game can retain player engagement the most without it being predatory and with Tier 2 having the gear in gacha is just predatory in nature. He just lacks the information to justify Limbus's system. As a Limbus fan myself, I prefer EGOs over Echoes anyday. Because we all know PM doesn't care about making the best selling gacha game, they don't even know what gacha is.
@@ABlockofBrick I personally only do Mirror Dungeon to get the weekly lunacy and if I want something from the event shop then I will do it to get currency to get the cosmetic or material that I desire. It is great that you can farm crates in Mirror Dungeon and completely ignore the gacha aspect, but yeah too much time for me.
I only dispense for Identity and rarely dispense for E.G.O as I only use them to get a easy clash win.
I can see engagement in games , what could confuses me is faulting a game like R99 of burning stamina and waiting . I do the same thing in Wuwa after doing two tacet fields . I’ve 100 percent everything and finished all content until illusive realm and that’s fine once again they games purpose isn’t for playing for a long duration
I just bought the limbus pass for the first time and it’s by far the best one I have bought in any gacha
2:15 speak for yourself... lol
8:20 - Who in their mind would comeback to the game to only grind damn relics - that’s delusional af take. I personally don’t wanna comeback to neither zzz or Wuwa just because I need to grind them relics. I come back once new event drops and new content. And grind them relics when I do new content.
Grinding relics is not fun - extremely low rng it shouldn’t be taking months to build out a character - if we don’t want to make it that easy there should be more calibration options for a mainstat and a substat - given once per patch so player can at at least craft one or two pieces of gear he wants - it shouldn’t impact retention that bad and players will have nice piece or two of gear they crafted
28:06 increase no of tuners
What we need in Wuwa is more exp domains for echos and mats. Echoes are easy to get but why grind if you can't level them up
Wuthering waves yes have easier gearing mechanic than the other gachas out there, but heck the very limited resources you get to level up a good gear just makes it equally annoying as the others. At the very least HSR already gives you an insight on what the subs stats are gonna be giving you an option to choose which gears to salvage. While WUWA is very resource hungry at even pulling for 3 initial subs. And "IM NOT LYING" if I say both are just as tedious to grind.
I’ve had no problems running out of resources besides sometimes not having enough echo tubes. But I still have 50 solvents
Wuwa gives an INSANE amount of materials from events though?
2.0 alone gives you more than 2000 tuners and 500 exp pots WITHOUT the double tacet field and exploration daily events... At this point you are either a min maxer or doing something really wrong with your mats.
@@Wolfyyy Dude those tuners are fine. But the EXP pots? You should know by now that those aren't enough if you keep rolling mediocre substats. And Mind you I've been managing my exp pots by tuning to 3 substats first. Building Carlotta herself needs you to roll for a double Crt RT/DMG echo, with Resonance Skill and maybe a decent Energy Regen. I'm telling you those EXP pots ain't enough if you're extremely unlucky. Plus getting the right elemental substat echo on the sonata set you need and grinding for the 1 star echo with the right stats on the sonata you need is actually harder to grind on the overworld than you think. And don't get me started with the "Just do the tacetfield" and stuff cause there's a good chance I wont get the main stat I need for the sonata set and I had to grind mats for my resonators too.
@@momotsuyuonce9473 tuning to 3 substats first is bad on it's own.. but chasing 3 BIS substats? are yo ok?
a min rolls double crit carlotta on static mist with destroy the tower... i know that because that's my carlotta.
6:35 the dev gives a selector every single patch, it takes 2 prisms (obtainable via events) for a + 600 ether fuel for a single stigmata. Easily obtainable within a week or two. But the best thing is, the business model is generally you pull a weapon (60 pull guarantee btw) you basically get a free stigmatas. I prefer this way more than any other rng and daily based gearing honestly. Get and finished it under a day and just enjoy the fresh end games every 3 - 7 days.
You also get a prism every week from the memorial arena, and some are in the part 2 story.
@Kaikachichi ah I forgot about that. Back in the day people complained about the prism being so rare, they immediately just gave us a bunch of em. Free bp also gives us 2 apparently.
Obtaining the stigma is pretty easy. Maxing them? That cost a lot of prism now it sucks
@@gmasterkoestimanta 7 prism to max it out. Additionally like in 7.8 and 7.5/6 if I'm not mistaken they gave 10 from mail. I usually get them from the banner, the rate is so high I could get like 2 - 4 in a single multi, those dupes can be exchanged for a prism each. Never really got any problem upgrading it.
If somehow you still run out of prisms like back in 7.3 (before they patched it), to be more specific the stigmata upgrade is divided into 3 phases. Cost you 1 - 2 - 4 prisms. Even at 2nd phase you already got 80% of it's value, really affordable.
the sudden pause on the music (38:45) caught my attention, then popping back up was a good touch👍👍
Reverse 1999 fans sipping a cup of tea with a glance of superiority.
Did Saintontas played Limbus Company? If not, I recommend to play because this is a really nice game, it's a gacha game too, it's have turn based combat that reminds me of fear and hunger + darkest dungeon + a good story that represented by visual novels and there is no artifacts system, no other bullshit with upgrading each skill for character + you can get any character id that you want just for free.
Honest to GOD I started playing this summer and had to delete it until I could get Wuwa on my PS5 . It was awesome to see tectone playing it and I finally committed today buying the bp .
I’m on the section after canto 3(chicken head ) …..which was amazing
I’m just trying to grind out to complete a bleed team
The gearing system is the only reason why I can't be bothered to play ToA, Spiral Abyss, and MoC...
nah bro, just try clearing ToA. You might already have the stats you need, only skill issue...Same for me, I wonder why I can't clear ToA, then I check all youtuber clear it easily whit worse echo than mine. Turn out I just need to tweak my teams, learn a bit about the combat system, and now I can clear ToA comfortably... Heck I built Carlotta in a week for her to crushing the end game, and her echoes are far from optimal...
@@wiraadi7927 I want to but the issue is that I just don't have the time. I have college and I don't have stable access to the internet. So I can't even login to wuwa everyday, all my echoes are shit and I'm f2p.
Give ToA a shot imo, if people can clear a full tower circuit with a single dps character then you can definitely clear it with a decent 3 squad. Just make sure your using the right mainstat on each character and your usually good to go at that point, no need for godtier ones.
tbh, I only recently started to get full clears on all 3 towers a month ago and I'm playing day 1, turns out I could have done that ages ago and the only thing that was bringing me down was knowing how a character kit actually works or well "skill issue"
Once I learned how to at least put some effort into it I'v ebeen clearing it without problem, its been 4 tower rotations and I've gotten full clear since.
@unloyal4847 I still have college to worry about and I don't have stable access to the internet here in the boarding house I'm staying at. So whenever I login to wuwa, I'm more concerned about catching up with main story. In fact, I've barely touched Rinascita and 2.1's already coming out soon💀
@@unloyal4847 I just don't have time to play. So whenever I login wuwa, I'm more concerned about catching up to main story than ToA. I've barely touched Rinascita and 2.1's already coming out soon💀💀💀
I quit pgr cuz my old man eyes can’t keep up. I can’t see shit anymore when the characters doing dope stuff is so flashy that I can’t see what the enemies are doing. Wuwa has the perfect balance of cool/visibility
For now. Wait and see the effects go sicko mode in a year or 2. Whether or not it'll be good or bad depends on you.
Just disable bloom then
One gripe I have about the Echo system in Wuwa is that a fusion dmg main stat can appear on a void thunder set
"The elites don’t want you to know this, but the echoes on sol-3 are free. You can take them home. I have 458 echoes."
I dont think a gearing system is horrible but I do prefer playing gacha games without them on the side
I have 733hrs currently in Elden Right. Tons of playthrough build and especially MODS.
1:25 that’s why you add PvP or more co-op features instead of artificial replayability which is grinding also there’s a difference between being able to grind and having the grind taken from you because of the lack of resources, so even if it was easy to level your character up not being able to grind because you have no resources still prevents you from being able to play the game just like if you were to have no characters to level up there’s also this thing called new characters that get released every month to keep players playing there is a reason why pokemon pocket is as big as it is aside from being a pokemon title
I was so confusd on why the voice sounded so familiar, bro has another channel for Dead Cells content which I used to grind back in the day 💀💀💀💀💀💀
ur argument makes no sense, pgr has the best gear system cuz u know for a fact u can be done with ur character, after gearing your character, u do the endgame content and the challenge stages, just like what i do in every random gear grind games, i dont come back to wuwa and hsr to grind gear, i come back to do my weekly grind and challenge runs,
saying you only play the game just for the gear grind is also saying the game has no actual content to go back and play with. i appreciate the fact that it is easier to grind in wuwa, but random echo farming is not the reason i continue to play wuwa, same with hsr and genshin, i just accept that shit gear system in place cuz i cant do anything about it. thankfully all these games are not pvp-centric games so my shit gear means nothing in the grand scheme of things. but this shit random gear grind are still shit
edit: easy to grind in wuwa = easier to grind in wuwa, rngeezus still dictates the actual difficulty of gear grind in these games ofcourse so i cant ever claim it is easy
Once again, out of touch.
YOUR experience is better 'cause you got lucky with rolls, you're literally invalidating those who didn't get lucky for months on end.
Have to say that I find ZZZ's gearing quite close to WuWa's. You can't farm infinitely, that is true, but it has a less restrictive set bonus system than other hoyo games, allowing to mix more freely, and they give a shit ton of free discs through different currencies, without spending stamina. ZZZ also allows to craft specific pieces more easily, either targeting just one slot or directly selecting the main stat using a limited item (although they give a lot of them).
While you still have to land multiple times on the substats, the end result isn't very different to WuWa, since WuWa has the issue of having way too many possible subtats and also random variation.
Maybe ZZZ benefits from being generally easier than WuWa (although latest Deadly Assault require quite a lot of DPS), so it's gearing might be slightly worse than WuWa's but still feel similar.
for me, echoes system is actually fine. I like to grind for a bit to get a decent stats for my characters. and it's feels rewarding. in genshin, I grinded for a phys goblet for my eula for a fcking year and still did not get any on set phys goblet or any useable artifact. And I like the combat so it's a win-win for me. but it can be better of course, but for now it's really not THAT bad.
For everything outside of a relic system, players first, devs second.
For Relic system, devs first, players second.
Dont understand the logic, I will acknowledge that genshin did do a good job for its time on the artifact system. but its been FOUR YEARS.
How are we still on the same shitty system, but with minor upgrades?
(No soul's player were hurt in making this video) smh.... do you live in your small bubble ? Just coz you don't play it doesn't mean others don't play it daily, and you think that devs are much better at keeping the game alive, then you might need to look how many garbage are there in the market which died even thou they tried to stabilize everything.....devs don't earn nothing if they don't hear players feedback its simple.
You can't win em' all Saint, and this video is proof of that.This showed a very poor understanding of not only what makes a gear system good FOR THE PLAYER, but also showed an unhealthy bias towards Wuthering Waves. You would be doing yourself a favor if you did a little more research or stopped talking with such authority over things you clearly don't understand.
Warframe does it well grinding for mats can still be fun in that game and feel like your doing something worthwhile
This ….im not grinding in a gacha game for its sustainability, EXCEPT to accomplish end game content . I log off to crack relics and have horizontal and vertical investment in my drama and mods and do my daily’s and my 1999 calendar which is more worth my time than to get a punch of fusion and glacio stat 4 cost in a lingering/celestial tacet field .
Right now is the belly of the beast rerun and Valentine’s Day event on fortuna . Whether you are on normal origin system or steel path there is PLENTY of content
I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to grind in Wuwa. Most resources come easily, and the echo's fill my inventory passively as I play the game. So, that said it's pretty definitive that grinding is not the incentive to keep coming back to the game, never mind being the only incentive.
I'm currently in a grind to get a nightmare echo that I've been grinding for a couple hours per day for a week. I don't enjoy it, it's pissing me off. It's by far the biggest annoyance I'm having with the game, and because I don't have to do it frequently it makes it all the more infuriating that I'm stuck doing this now when I could spend my time doing something else. But what options do I have? My electro team isn't clearing electro TOA, so I need to buff their echo's - it's not just because I'm brain broken and are trying to min-max. I'm at the mercy of RNG. My resources are suffering, my mental is suffering, and my impression of the game is suffering. Tell me more about how people who hate it just don't understand.
for me its the other way around, cause i try to be optimal with my echos and i discard them i hav more exp than echoes to upgrade, i roll 50 echoes and i get DEF or HP as main stat = discard. The annoying part for me has always been getting echoes, i farm 1hr a day and get nothing, crazyyy
The fact that you can mitigate the low income of echo exp, buy tedious rolling and upgrading echos one 5 lvls at a time… is just the proof that this whole system is tedious. I’m too lazy and impatient , it’s too boring and (RNG) frustrating. Worst thing on earth, no need to defend it really.
The echo system is definitely the best. I just need more tuners and exp
RNG gearing system is literally just a slot machine simulator, that is probably why its fun.
1:15 personally im fine with the farming echoes/artifacts/relics ect its the limitations placed on these systems i personally hate gear being time gated via resource management and RNG is just an ass system imo
In Arknights you grind 1-7. You grind 1-7 all day every day. You get new characters to grind 1-7 faster. Maybe you skip events to grind 1-7. Great model.
Talking about worst gearing systems and not mentioning Granblue Fantasy? Yeah, no. They're tier 6.
I think it's funny how people keep saying the entire point of playing X game is the story and at the same time daily resource for gear is what keeps them playing.
I've been playing solo leveling since release and all I can say is that in the late game everything is not as bad as it seems (I played genshin, hsr, bcm, cookie run, tof and now I'm playing wuwa). The solo leveling system is one of the simplest systems that you can see in gacha games, artifacts (gear) drop very often, all the substats are open to you at once, there is a separate improvement for artifacts. I didn't have any significant problems with leveling, we are constantly given a set of artifacts to choose from. Yes, the only problem is that you are constantly asked for coins (game currency) for leveling and they are constantly lacking (like wuwa is constantly lacking tuners), but they accumulate quickly thanks to the generosity of the developers.
if you don't take this into account, then solo leveling has both the simplest system and the largest in terms of the variety of things to level up (artifacts are only a small part of what needs to be leveled up and it is constantly being replenished).
+ before that I'm f2p and I have every character from 2 to 5-8 stars, which is literally an indicator that characters in this game are not difficult to get from gacha.
this is not the best gacha, I play it only out of love for the original source, but I like to go in for an hour once every three days to farm something. (+ before that this gacha has the most battle modes of all the gachas I've played, at the level it can only be tof for sure)
Nobody plays PGR in global cuz its launch has a bunch of issues, its a novel type of game(very bad for people with bad attention span), the lack of funding made the first 8 chapter boring af(not voiced), the in game system is not newbie friendly(lacks in game tutorial gotta youtube) and they barely markets the game(oldge af too).
Edit: and also when global was launch the gap between CN and global was a year a part that made it for other people a turn off.
Im doing the same to wuwa and pgr, just login to spend my stamina, imo rn wuwa is much more baren(already 100% the maps and cleared toa) cuz in pgr at least it has the best weekly activities.
Edit: gotta balance it out
A lot of cope to just say a bad game is bad.
@Juryoku_ is it actually that bad? Well i guess i already explain why its bad. Go on now, keep scrolling.
I really can't believe where teaching all of this especially on people who plays gacha's like years and years ..im a gacha gamer for like forever (mainly a mobile games enjoyer ) and have seen a lot .. at this point i said to myself ? Are these players dont want to play the game at all ? And not just not playing the game . Just play the game bare minimum for example 5-10 minutes a day ..