Building a 48v Off Grid Generator: Part 2 - Got it figured out!!!!
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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No modifications to the alternators were needed - mount the 2nd alternator so it is completely electricly isolated from the frame, connect the output of the 1st alt to the ground of alt #2 and the output of 2 is now 48v. Running both fields from one regulator is asking for a meltdown
He already tried that, it didn't work
@Eliseo202 he tried without completely isolating the 2nd alternator... they ground through the frame so if they're mounted on the same metal and wired in series then one has a dead short.
Potentiel of the first is 0v because is grounded. Potentiel of the second is +24v. So final voltage between ground 0v and higher potentiel will be 48v. So alternator #2 must be isolate from metal frame ! ❤
This video is a waste of time. davidpoz shows how to do it with a 12v car alt and get 48v 3kw from it. and he link all the parts needed so anybody can do it.
I suggested in the last video either Teflon or nylon bushings isolating one alternator then connecting them in series. I also said that his engine is wayyy too small. As follows:
746 watts = 1 horsepower
amps X volts = watts
100 amps X 48 volts = 4,800 watts
4,800 watts / 746 = 6.43 brake horsepower
This does not taking into account losses in the belt drive, the, I'm sure, overly generous horsepower ratings of Harbor Freight engines and the need for reserve horsepower to avoid stalling under load and I didn't include, last time, friction loses in the alternator bearings.
Judging by the sheer physical size of his engine, I'm guessing maybe 5 or 6 "rated" horsepower. I suggested he get a quality 8 minimum or better yet 10 horse engine and use the above mentioned insulating bushings to finish his project.
I haven't finished watching the whole program but judging by his jury rigging the inside of the one alternator, he's in for major disappointment when he smokes the diode bridge in that unit. That alternator housing doesn't offer enough area to sink the heat away from those diodes for what he's going to be asking from them.
David Poz has a channel where he took a 12 volt X 212 amp alternator for a Ford truck, removed the stock diodes and regulator, isolated the two discrete sets of three phase field windings, connected them to two separate outboard bridge rectifiers and, with some other peripherals, developed 91 VDC that he fed, @ 40 amps, into a 100 amp Victron MPPT solar charge controller that output a regulated charge to his 48 volt system.
This was an experiment for David that worked in principle but didn't pan out. Reason being that a year before, he did a Kw hour per gallon of gas test on his 6,500 watt portable generator driving a 100 amp @ 48 volt charger then did the same test on this project. His big generator got something like 5.3 Kw hours out of a gallon of gas where his new project got just over 4 Kw hours with a much smaller Harbor Freight engine. He had fun building it though.
We use to buy those 10si GM one wire Alternators for our tractors and trucks all we needed to do is replace the regulators for 6 volt ,12 volt or 24 volt it was simple and cheap in fact the
Alternators were only $19.95 from Auto Zone . Some guys even ran 12 volts to the brushes and got 90 to 110 volts out to run flood lights . so those were great to have on the shelf at the farm.
I guess I am a little late, but maybe if I can clarify a couple of things about your alternators (and most others). The little black rectifier that is attached to the main rectifier bank and the stator feeds 24 volts to the internal voltage regulator, and through the electronics inside the regulator, it varies the voltage and amperage to the rotor, and increases or decreases the output from the alternator. Now, the main rectifier bank is conveniently an isolated rectifier, and can be unbolted and attached externally anywhere. In the alternator, the negative side is bolted to the alternator case for ground, and the positive side is held into the case by way of the output terminal and insulators. If you look in between the two sides, you will see the rectifying diodes with the tabs running out to the 3 studs the stator wires attached to. Actually, you probably could have used one or both of the rectifier banks in place of the store bought rectifier you bought, and mounted them on the post. Now, I don't know how long the voltage regulator will last, because it is providing double the amperage to the rotors. Particularly at 48 volts. Your jury rig works well, apparently, but another way around it is to run external wires out of both of them to feed both rotors from one source. There are many electronic voltage regulators that will work on 48 volts, at very reasonable prices) available on the market that should be able to supply the max amperage draw of both rotors (check the draw with an amp guage, on your multimeter if it can take 10 amps or better, and then double that to get max amp draw).
I noticed a couple of posts that showed concern for synchronization of the alternators, because of phase issues. A simple work around is to use a timing belt, and corresponding timing pullies for the motor and the alternators. You would have to make corresponding marks on the stators and rotors (a white dot of paint would work) so both fingers of the rotors correspond to the same place on the stator windings. Voila, synchronized alternators!
I've got 50+ years experience rebuilding alternators (and starters), and have done many hit and miss experiments over the years (ex., solenoid motors from car starter solenoids), and have learned a lot from playing around with stuff. So, we are birds of a feather, and I just turned my curiosity into a business. If you have any further questions, let me know. I love where you are heading with this. Oh - on other comments about RPM, yes, most alternators run at around 5000 RPM for the maximum output. Increasing your engine pulley size will speed up those alternators. Which, by the way, originally came out in the late 60's or early 70's, so the design has been around for a long time. Apparently the builders rewound the stators and increased the rotor magnetism to increase the output. Modern automotive alternators are 120 and 135 amps now, and about ½ the size of those. I have no idea what the no-load voltage is on one of those!!
thank you for your information Sir !
Dude, you REALLY need to do a video on how to make a 48v setup work with minimal modding of alternators!!
@@manoo422 I've never seriously played around with making a 24 or 48 volt output alternator from a 12V automotive alternator, but playing around with them I did see that without a load (12V battery) they would produce over 50 volts. In my (long) response, I did make a typo when I talked about the diode trio provided 24V to the regulator. It should have read 14V. Everything else was correct, in theory. I guess I needed an energy crisis (other than the gas shortages back in the '70's), and could have gotten a jump start on alternative energy sources! Now I just have to sit back and watch the fun...one other neglected comment of mine - some automotive alternators now produce over 200 amps, although not continuously. Audi has gone one step further, and is making water cooled alternators!
@@DoctoreE644 48v systems are now part of many peoples home battery setups. The major problem is how to remain viable during winter months by producing fuel in the summer and storing it until winter. Whether thats with Hydrogen or Ethanol or something else its likely to end up with an engine and a generator for which alternators are a very good candidate. If you have any useful information/experience on achieving this you should pass it on now to those who need it or it will simply be lost. We are all judged by what we leave behind...
@@manoo422 thanks for your comments, and your concern for the future of off-grid power generation. Even though alternator tech has advanced considerably since I was in the business, the theory of how they work is still the same. The stator windings in the alternator body produce 3-phase electricity in a wye or delta configuration. The older ones use the wye, recognizable by three wires going to the rectifiers, and newer ones are delta wound and all six wire ends terminating in pairs at the diodes (1 or two negative and positive diodes for each phase) in the positive and negative rectifier banks, creating a pure DC output. The rectifier banks are normally attached to the alternator body, so the internal fan cools the rectifier assemblies, which are heat sinks. It is all designed as a unit, and are meant to run for years in the less than optimal conditions under the hood of a car. These rectifier banks are well-engineered, and are about the best bet for long life. No need to spend money on re-engineering the alternator.
Now for the built-in regulators that are in most modern alternators. It's pretty obvious that they are not likely to survive 24 or 48 voltages, so they need to be removed. Older alternators have a diode trio of small diodes that are attached to the three (or 6) stator leads at the main rectifier banks. This diode trio supplies rectified DC to the regulator, and then the regulator varies its output voltage, through the rotor coil and the brushes, to ground. It's possible that the voltage to the regulator is only supplied through an ignition source, but that is something that will have to be diagnosed by the DIYer. Just removing the regulator should be all that is necessary to remove any supply source. As far as the brushes, they are usually contained in their own housing. One screw that holds the assembly to the alternator is usually a ground connection, and can be determined with an ohm meter. The other brush goes to the regulator, and once the regulator is removed, a wire can be attached for a remote 12V source, supplied by the DIYer. I wouldn't recommend running the rotor voltage at other than 12V, as it is designed to run at the normal 14V of the original alternator. After all, the rotor is only a variable magnet, and to convert it to 48 volts would require disassembly, which is a big chore, requiring shaft removal (using a hydraulic press) and rewinding the coil. A remote 12V regulator is eaily sourced. Most rotors only use about 5 amps, but newer models may be more. Best to check with an ohm meter and use Ohms Law to determine amperage draw, and purchase a regulator with an amp rating double that of the rotor draw. No sense in running the regulator at full capacity. That would jeopardize the life of the regulator! About the only other thing I can think of, is make sure the alternator is spinning in the proper direction! An alternator will produce electricity in either rotation, but the internal fan is most efficient in the designed rotation. The fan pulls cooling air through the fins on the outside of the alternator, and over the stator coils and the rectifier cooling fins, and out the back cover. Which reminds me, put the outer plastic cover back onto the alternator, as it is all designed to keep the alternator as cool as designed. And the designers spent a lot of time and engineering to do just that! Don't throw all the money of that engineering away by modifying the original alternator. They know a lot more than us tinkerers!!
Please feel free to pass this along to anyone interested in using an automotive alternator to charge an off-grid electrical system. It is only practical operating information, and there are sure to be exceptions to what I've written. I've seen a lot of folks who cannibalized an alternator when they didn't need to. As long as the right-sized cables are attached directly to the alternator case and the output terminal and to the battery conttol equipment, y'all should be good to go. One other thought - in case the alternator runs quite hot (it's best to monitor it in the testing stage), a safety circuit can easily be hooked up, by using a dryer temperature switch (125C or 257F) wired in series between the regulator and the rotor input. Mount it flush to a flat part of the alternator. Temperature switches can also be found in electric tools and appliances, as a flat sensor device hooked into motor power lead and attached to the motor. Just make sure that the temp rating doesn't exceed 250° F. Good luck!!
Driving two Field windings (Rotor) from one regulator will cause it to burn out soon... you have doubled its design load.
Also the external rectifier is likely losing a different amount of voltage than the internal rectifier of the stock unit, which will result in unbalanced loading of the two alternators. It would be interesting to compare the DC output from both. If they are within a couple of Volts of each other, you're golden.
Also you need to realize that the DC output pulses from the rectifiers of each alternator will not be in-sync with each other because the two alternators aren't mechanically synchronized. This will result in reduced output efficiency... as much as a 33% loss.
Just put the modified unit back together, then float (un-Ground) the negative DC output terminal of the built-in 3 phase bridge rectifier, the Negative Field connection, as well as the Negative connection for the Field regulator circuit... and connect those three connections together with a 4th large wire... keeping it away from the metal housing ground. Then bring that new "floating ground" connection out of the housing as the "new" Negative 24V DC output point. Now you have one "floating Ground" 24v alternator that CAN be mounted to the metal frame, and it's regulator will work as designed. This one modified alternator becomes the "upper half" of your 48v DC output.
The unmodified alternator remains Grounded, and it's +DC output then connects to the modified alternator "new Negative output" wire. The modified alternator +DC output would then be your +48v DC output.
However... to fix the "not-in-sync" issue, you will have to use a very large Capacitor directly across each 24v DC output... maybe 50,000 microfarads at 36V would suffice, the higher the capacitance the higher the efficiency... but they have to be large screw terminal capacitors, rated for very high current. These capacitors will hold the voltage up as the two alternators pulse output current at slightly different times.
Sorry... I'm a old EE, and believe if it's worth doing, it's worth doing it right.
True the reguator might bur out
And yes if the alternators are out of sync then you lose voltage (can only be seen with an oscilloscope)
A capacitor over eatch alternators dc output will help
I'm not sure if the 2 regulators in series will like this
If the 2nd alternators doesn't start it will get a positive voltage on its "floating ground" and a negative voltage on its positive output
I would use 2 alternators with external regulators
And use an extra beafy external regulator
Basically what he did but with a upgraded regulator
Maybe it's posible to wire the rotors in series?
A pair of capacitors seems like a much easier and cheaper solution than a syncrometer.
Awesome awesome the teacher
Great build! That being said, I sure as hoping to see more than 35A coming out of that pair of alternators. Squirting that much current into a battery bank the size of yours is like pissing into the wind. I was thinking 100ish or about. Although not as much fun, a used 48V forklift battery charger running on a LARGE generator would get those beefy lead-acid guys a bubbling.
Yea, I got them up to 70amps now which is less than I hoped for but more than I really need.
I just stumbled across your first video of this project and got instantly enthralled. I am 73 and have spent my life on diy projects like this one. And I think the name you chose for the channel is awesome. It describes my whole life.
David Poz did a similar project on his channel "DavidPoz" only he used a single alternator, removed the regulator and ran the output into a solar charge controller.
Both your project and his were very interesting and enjoyable but both were too expensive and too much work for me.
I have a similar project in mind in my budding solar journey. I already have a 120v 3000w generator but I don't want to spend $500 bucks on a 48v charger.
So, I am going to "TRY" running the output 120v ac out of that through a 200amp full bridge rectifier (Amazon $23), add a $2 capacitor to smooth out the rectified dc and feed that into a cheap 48v solar charge controller. Run the generator on propane or better yet natural gas and not have to deal with gasoline at all.
Should work, maybe it won't. "Trial and error" .
Living off grid in the mountains of Luzon, Philippines. Thanks that was most informative and saved me going through a similar journey hhh. Got my motor, a low speed diesel YAMADA 7HP, 1800 rpm.... Now I need to figure out whether to use a 150A truck alternator or a 2000w small windmill motor. Also need to decide if 24v or 48v system. Cost benefit study soon. Subscribed.
Thank you for your great work. Please do a follow up video. Building on your current knowledge and feedback from viewers. To summarise and suggest a simplified build and supply model numbers of components. As we non electrical people are not quite getting it. thanks and I am from Australia.
Any old alternator will make about 140v ac on the 3 phase, spinning them too slow is a problem too because the cooling fans are running too slow. The wind generator guys have this down to a science, study what they do with PMA wind turbines, the choke point in your system is most likely the external rectifier. Get some big high capacity diodes and build your own rectifier, using more diodes than you think you’ll need just makes them last longer, it spreads the load and eases the strain on each one, and heat generated. Also cool your diy rectifier with a fan. You could do better than your seeing in that setup with 1 large frame hairpin alternator and a proper rectifier. (Actually smaller than the alternators you have there) and you can get them in a ccw rotation so your generator will take up less room. Denso makes the “hairpin” alternators, they are no joke.you then can control the output voltage in 3 ways. Engine rpm, pulley ratio, and varied dc voltage input to the rotor.
A bit late maybe but gonna throw this out anyway.
You're always going to have belt tension issues with that setup. You've got the engine on flexible mounts with the alternators fixed to the frame. As the engine mounts fatigue the belt tension will need adjusted. That's obvious... but the very act of tensioning the belt is accelerating the engine mount fatigue. Eventually you run out of adjustment or, in this case, you end up with total failure of the mounts resulting in metal on metal, defeating the entire purpose of the mounts. There is a reason belt driven accessories are mounted solid to the engine in every commercial design.
Good job boss. I saw your two videos how to build a mobile power generator, using HF gas engine. I'm looking for material, videos on how to do the same system. Your prototype is cool. You don't need to apologize for your mistakes, on the contrary I want to say that you did an excellent job. Don't look at the criticism received, but the results of your efforts. Congratulations friend. eddie...the HVACR Tech.
Clean Clean work - do you have perhaps a Part 3 coming out in any additional changes or improvements? Thanks for the share!
Where's the capacitor? I'd be a good idea to put a big capacitor in there to smooth out the gaps in the rectified DC, if there's not one hidden in there somewhere that I missed.
I pulled them out. The 10,000lb battery bank this goes to works as the best capacitor to smooth out current you could ever ask for.
@@Trialnerror Yeah, your load will get good clean DC, but the batteries will see ripple voltage during charging. That ripple voltage may or may not have an impact on the batteries, or BMS depending on chemistry. It's probably fine, but worth checking into either way if you aren't planning to smooth out that ripple. Cheers.
Having some ripple on dc for charging lead acids are better than straight dc. Actually none of the battery chemistries care aslong as the peak current is not above their rated charge current & the voltage is not going into negative.
Best price I found on large diodes you walk past every day. The red tumb stone stick welders have large diodes inside that are easily found online on a beer budget. My project required the ability to power a new York city block at a 100 % duty cycle. I'm looking forward to the end of the world unlike Motel 6 I'll leave the light on for you.
Back in the 80s a lot of cars had a separate external regulator. Alternators rarely ever go bad. its the carbon brushes or the regulator that usually fails. I've never had to replace an alternator yet. $15 for brushes or $20 for a regulator, maybe a bearing on rare occasion.
note using the big aka 6 phase car audio alternators you can do the same thing by pulling all 6 phase wires out and using external rectifiers (it's not 6 phase it's a single stater with dual 3 phase windings you can directly feed 10~14v into the field coil and use a MPPT charge controller from the 50~100v to charge the batteries this will give you 90% ish total electrical efficiency upto the battery (liFe charging you loose apx 15~40% depending on charge rate)
1400~ watt output ain't no slouch! Great Job!
If you had used a solar charge controller you can use full voltage off the alternator and if it runs too hot you can reduce the voltage with a heavy duty rheostat and use a lighter wire and the Voltage doesn’t really matter but the higher the voltage the less amperage to get the same wattage means less heat so your fields should run cooler
I would agree that the alternators should be electrically isolated from each other since the body is the ground. There is no one wire alternator, they are just using the frame as the ground which works in most vehicles. If a positive and negative came out of each alternator carrying 24VDC, then they can be in series, but only of they are isolated.
Use alternators in parallel without modification
buy a buck/boost converter
to convert dual output of the 24V
into 48V
this way you can easily replace an alternator from stock components
or add another alternator in parallel to get more amperage
That is a totaly Bad Ass system you made there Dude !!!
All you needed to do was to electrically isolate one the alts from the mount then you could wire them in series.
I think you could have made this work with one alternator and had the regulator work for 48 VDC by wiring a 24 V zener diode in series with the voltage sense input to the regulator. The zener will subtract 24 V and the alternator output would have to be 48 VDC for the regulator to see 24 V on its sende input. It should then regulate the output st 48 VDC.
As I have said before, you are a very talented guy. your total setup in unbelievable... Have a great weekend.... PS. need some snow blowing vids with your new tractor ;)
It was nice to see so much good advice given. It was great to see you do it your own way.
You can get a 12v alternator and get 75 to 120 v because that is how you BILT a welder out of a alternator
Adding a capacitor on the DC out of the rectifier and another across the first alternator might help the alternators work together better. You are probably generating a lot of noise(DC ripple) the way it is setup now.
i watched the first one and right as that one wrapped up this one popped up, clever twist on external regulation and conversion, glad to see it worked out for you
You should do an instructibles page for these projects
You could have isolated the one alternator from the frame and connected the two in series saving all the hassle of all the changes you made.
Would a positive ground alternator have worked for one of the units?
When testing for output voltage the first time, we're the alternators even energised?
Permeant magnet alternators = no voltage to excite the rotor coil necessary
Should have just used a neihoff 450 amp alternator!!!! One alternator set up!!! It can also be voltage changed and better built.
You could just find the resistance needed to drop the voltage to 28v at 52v and one would do the job. A voltage converter that is scalable also does this well after you find your values
interesting . have you run this unit at max load for several hours? any problems?
A few suggestions. Use a dual pulley on the engine to drive each alternator on its own belt. This would eliminate those extra pulley / tensioner mechanical components. Also driving one belt through all those pulleys along with having the grooves on the alternator pulleys being the wrong size will make for some short belt life. Instead use 5" racing alternator pulleys which will accommodate the wider belt of a standard pulley. A dual engine pulley can easily be sized as required. The larger pulleys will reduce the strain on the belts ensuring longer belt life over smaller diameter pulleys also. Those types of engines are only good for about 1000 hrs of use. Use a diesel engine to get perhaps 3000 5000 hours of use plus it would use much less fuel and be cheaper in the long run.
So I have a need to do something similar to this,but not use a gas motor. I am wo during if u mind if I cooy your idea exactly and ask question as I go for my own DIY off grid project. Great video, awesome page. Your a Ro k Star
might be a bit late but might look into a car audio enthusiast build like EXO he uses multiple alternators to keep his batteries charged, he's also using lithium car batties
Use pulley size to run nearer max rpm so exitation power will be lower.
Very nice bro keep it up 👍❤️ from india 🙏🙏
The easiest way to get 48 volts from two 24volt alternators is to leave the alternators alone and wire them together in parallel then pull a high voltage transformer from an old microwave or a/c unit or a welder or a battery charger etc,etc... Cut out both primary and secondary coils from the steel and wire each coil by hand according the anticipated voltages and amperage draw you need then apply heat sinks, cooling fins and possibly some small computer fans to cool the transformer as needed.
What you just wrote is impossible. If you leave the alternators alone, the output of either will be DC. You cannot use DC on a transformer period.
@@elser2utube the problem with you ending on your period is that it's not true. The first transformer ever made was DC. It needs a capacitor to pulse the energy at a particular rate. Energy plus vibration creates a frequency. "If you want to understand the nature of the mysteries of the universe you must think in terms of energy, vibration and frequency. " - Nikola Tesla.
@@captainKedger With all due respect. You didnt mention a capacitor in your initial "All you had to do instructions". However, If you put a capacitor on the unmodified output of one or two alternators, in any configuration, all you are going to end up with is a better DC "waveform" on the transformer primary due to filtering or buffering. This would be accompanied by nothing on the transformer output, apart from useless spikes when you disconnect to troubleshoot, and heat generation in the grossly inefficient resistive heater that was just custom wound.
Besides, if you wanted to "correct" the voltage via a transformer, it would only make sense to remove the alternator output bridge (same modification done in this case) and route the AC output of the alternator to a three phase transformer primary, then rectify the output.
@@elser2utube you have a couple of good points there. I live on a boat so I find 12volt DC current to be much more useful. I often forget most people live in houses.
@@elser2utube they put out high freq so iron core tranny will still be a heater lol
easy way to solve problem: put voltage divider on voltage regulator measuring terminal , and set up resistance by voltage on output terminals. Boom! And we have custom DC voltage on output.
SUPER IDEA . SUPER POMYSŁ . POZDRAIAM .
I'm surprised this even worked. You don't have exciter even hooked up. You should have a 5W bulb between B and L terminals. That side connector is there for a reason :)
I wonder if you could run the two in parallel into a boost converter to boost the voltage to 48 volts
1 x 24v negative grounded alternator and 1 x 24v positive grounded alternator in series
Wish I had your brain man. Very smart. Where'd you learn electrical?
Not sure how long that rectifier will last with the hot air ducting from the engine aiming at it?
Can you give me the part number you used for your rectifier pack? Thank you.
Cool to see it working.
I might be a bit late. But have you figured out your gallon of gas to KwH conversion yet?
This was cheaper then buying a generator?
why not just connect each alternator to a 12v battery then wire them in series
Hello From Vancouver island, Canada. Great Video you put out.
Question: Why is DC Solar's website still functioning everything seems to still be operating as normal??
Hello from your southern NH neighbor that you wish was a bit more normal :). Different company (why they decided to pick up that name is beyond me).
All of these solutions will give you problems because if you do manage to get 48 volts you still need to get the voltage to pulse at the right frequency to be used by anything useful. You're going to need to build a bank of capacitors or make a capacitor for it.
Well, having 1 regulator do both should actually be better for stabillity if they have the same resistance
3-4-2023 Very Good!!!
Are you able to make 2 new altinators and ship to me ?
What price?
How much 48v power can you make whit 1 of this in amp ??
And how much for both in produktion ???
Awsome future upsett ;)
Me like
Wonder how many kW in hour and fuel consume and so on ???
Great if I get some answer ore link if you have a video.
Great prodject man cool
Nice work.
That's a nice one!
Great channel.
Are these 24volt 17si alternators ?
You’d have better luck playing checkers on a leopard’s ass than trying to series run alternators.
why not just isolate the alternator from the metal frame?
Yes this. This video is driving me nuts. It would have been so much easier to just isolate one of the grounds from the beginning. Then none of this modification and taking apart business would have been needed.
Why not just use a 48v alternator from Balmar
Long range golf cart?
Could of just bought a 48 volt permanent magnet altenator.
Creative ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Thanks.
Same as a washing machine motor.
you could have just bought a 24v alternator that had a positive ground and another 24v alternator that has a negative ground.
Now you tell me. :)
@@Trialnerror I'd love to know if this would actually work-that seems way more beginner friendly (👋me) than rewiring an alternator!
@@andrewdunham8973 i suggest starting with a 12v setup my set up is beginner friendly and works well all parts are available locally come by and sub to my channel and ill do an update general overview of the generator in the next few days
More pv, more batteries= no expensive generator or fuel needed. One less item to store, maintain and repair.
This generator cost less than adding just 2 panels...or the shipping on one battery.
And for emergency power during cloudy weeks: it works.
Just got out of a 2 week constant overcast, couldn't imagine how people's PV setups have been. 😂
@@jamess1787 My 34kWp and 153kWh bank has been great.
@@jamess1787 and here we end up with a cloudy week and usually a snow cover during that week that can cost additional days. Doesn't matter how big your panel setup is, if its covered in snow, it's going to make the same output as a solar calculator lol.
@@Trialnerror 💯.
There is no "eliminating" petroleum, just "reducing it" to some manageable levels when the relevant technologies mature.
Absolutely no shame in using a generator: they're necessary part of most electrical utility (and my electrical utility was at one point 98% hydro-electric).
🤜🤛
Gas on! 🏭
I'm sorry
I'm an electronics engineer and an accomplished mechanic
Right from the get go, your approach is incorrect
Negative ground chassis
Three phase winding with positive output
I'd rather you insulated the two Alternators without modifying it
Then putting them in series
Else modify the rectifiers from one alternator to output negative voltage then use an external regulator
I'm not an engineer or a mechanic. Perhaps you need to look at my channel name. Professional advice has no place here.
@@Trialnerror kudos to your inquisitive work
Sure wish you could have at a glance notice that the body of the alternator is negative ground
But nonetheless, bravo
Subscribed, you had meat at Meathook Abortion
Just found the second video. Nice mod. Nice job.
Thank you very much for watching!
just pay someone to rewire the stator with 2x the turns on each "teeth" to get 48v and put the alternators in parallel XD
Hell a 12 volt alternator will do around 140v on the 3 phase. This could be improved greatly by using 1 alternator and a big big rectifier, the wind power guys build their own. The voltage is easily regulated in this case by engine rpm and pulley ratios. And or varied dc voltage to the rotor.
Besides very bad things happen when you have 2 generators wired together that aren’t synchronized. Essentially that’s what this would be in parallel.
@@TheMajictech big diod can fix the problem and big enought capacitor
@@TheMajictech higher rpm higher magnetic drag on the rotor less eff.
@@treasurehunter80 heat buildup due to turning the alternators too slow will cause inefficiency and a shortened life. With a little research one could discover most alternators out there reach optimum efficiency at 5000-6000 rpm rotor speed in the alternator NOT engine rpm. Hence the pulley ratios seen in everything with an alternator, in fact slower speeds cause heat buildup and diminished output. These examples are being turned at 1/2 the optimum speed.
This is simple.. why were you stuck on modifying..all you need to do is keep them all isolated from each other..
they are a little expensive but still a heck of a lot cheaper than the new 48v genny
an alternator has an inherently poor efficiency of 60%
A gas engine is worse than that. I'm not worried about efficiency in an emergency situation, it just needs to work.
@@Trialnerror that's true, but i thought you wanted to improve the efficiency. now it's even worse!
@@Rothammel1 Alternators are MORE efficient than generators and doing it at 48v DC is more efficient than going up to 240v AC and using a charger to bring it back down. This is the most efficient way to convert gas into a battery bank charger, but it's by no means efficient due to how we have to combust fuel.
@@Trialnerror I haven't looked into that but i am curious to know whether it's true. I'm currently doing the dumb&easy version of AC generator back to DC into battery. Given the similarity of how generators and alternators work, im not entirely sure if this is much more efficient. A typical portable generator functions very similarly to an alternator, just without a rectifier!
Wouldn't be here watching and typing if i wasn't out here thinking and doing the same things so don't take it as contrarian, i just haven't seen the data and currently don't understand, whether it really is that much more efficient to skip the 120 > 48v step down or not. Great build btw.
Abortion of a project? Abortion? I think you mean abolishment.
Out of sync
Nice out come!
trim about 25-30 feet off the generator lead-it'l charge a lot quicker.
Use alternators in parallel without modification
buy a buck/boost converter
to convert dual output of the 24V
into 48V
this way you can easily replace an alternator from stock components
or add another alternator in parallel to get more amperage
Still think that just isolating the second alternator and using the + of the first as the ground/- of the second would have solved the issue. After all, DC is just a voltage differential and if second alternator “thinks” that 0v is actually 24v (because it’s isolated) it would have just worked out of the box
Alternators don't actually output DC... they output rectified 3-phase AC, it only becomes real DC after being filtered... and with 2 of them in series without any capacitors to filter out the rectified pulses, it will be very inefficient... because the two alternators output pulses are not synchronous.
Thats why you connect a battery there wired to each.. in your case at 24v you need 2 series batteries on each leg..then series all of them to reach the 48v..
Use alternators in parallel without modification
buy a buck/boost converter
to convert dual output of the 24V
into 48V
this way you can easily replace an alternator from stock components
or add another alternator in parallel to get more amperage
You should have just bought a fork lift battery charger and a 220v generator both can be bought used for under $500
suitablely heavy wire would allow more current. The wire you connected to the windings should be rated at least 63 amps per phase.
The problem with what you are doing is that the alternators have no charging algorithm for bulk/absorption/float. They just supply constant voltage which is fine for automotive batteries which don't normally reach a depth of discharge that solar batteries do. The higher the D.O.D. , the higher the voltage needed to bring the batteries back to a full, 'good quality' charge. You'll find that over time the quality of charge that you get with this setup is sub-optimal.
You need to pull the AC from each out, put them into external rectifiers, then combine the DC, add a capacitor to flatten the output, see where your OC voltage is and then get a 48v buck for the rated load.
You do not need to modify the alternator. If you make the other brackets out of plastic and let its alternator body float at 24 volts.
A properly wired transformer can easily change any voltage to any voltage. If you increase the voltage you will decrease the amperage by a proportionate amount. If you decrease voltage the amperage will increase accordingly. It's just a matter of inducing an electromagnetic pulse from one coil into another by having them close to each other. When you power up a coil it causes a production of electromagnetic energy which pulls on the secondary coil(s) within range of its magnetic flux. This induces an electrical current into the secondary coil where the voltage is determined by the number of wraps in the winding of the coil. Anticipated amperage determines the recommended wire thickness needed for each coil. Also the wattage draw determines what type of cooling system one would require to cool the transformer.
iron core tranny dont work well with the high freq output of the alternator my friend
You should get a larger pulley not smaller, alternators like revs. The crankshaft pulley circumference is usually 3~5 times the alternator pulley, so cruising on the interstate would get you around 2K rpm, so you would expect 8K rpm at the alternator.
wondering if a simple voltage doubler would have worked ? 2 caps and a view diodes rated at 125 amp or so, so 1 alt needed, then a aftermarket regulator 48v to the input inverter
Im not an expert at anytime but i have a PhD from youtube university. Look up David Poz's channel. He removed the voltage regulator and ran it 5hrough a charge controller and a bunch of other crap. I think the alternator was putting out over 80 volts.
Nice build. Have you tried to determine the kilowatt-hours per gallon to estimate the efficiency of the generator?
Let's assume it is expensive electricity. Designed for use when expensive electricity is much better than no electricity. ;)
Not to mention how un-green it is.
@@kevinsellsit5584 Un-green is the best.
I think you could full field the alternators and use a capacitor to stabilize the voltage, then use a buck converter (which is usually more efficient than a boost converter).
Why not use 2 12v DC to 48v DC charge controllers with off the shelf parts and charge 2 battery banks at a time?
Fuel economy? How may kilowatts per litre?