No one wanted to see Jokers character development undone, him beaten, humiliated, gang banged and killed. All while Lady Gaga sings and prances around.
You don't understand this movie. Joker finally murders Arthur Fleck and let's go of his ego entirely. The Arthur Fleck we knew was not a man devoid of empathy. He didn't kill senselessly. He killed people who bullied and hurt him. His brief interaction with puddles and Leigh were the last things holding him to his ego Arthur Fleck. Without that empathy he is Joker. The new Joker that killed Arthur in the end is free to kill without empathy. The end of the second movie is actually the end of the first movie. Without empathy he's free to kill the social worker who's completely innocent. Did you notice how they didn't even acknowledge her death in this movie? Arthur killed seven people in the first movie, not six. Even Arthur doesn't acknowledge this because it didn't happen yet. The visitor waiting for him was the social worker. Now's he's free to escape and fully immerse himself into his shadow. He has nothing left to care about without Leigh. The Folie a Deux is you; it's the audience. Finally, either the man who stabs Arthur is a fabrication in his mind or he's the real Joker. Maybe let go of your desire to have everything spelled out for you and try to see things with a little bit of subtext and subtlety. It makes art more enjoyable when you can do this.
@@felixthecat2786 Sure he had some sort of morality to his killings in the first movie, but by the end he was fascinated by chaos and disorganization and didn't care if police were beaten to death in front of him. And so your saying the ending to joker 2 is a metaphor for the ending to the first one? Yeah I like that, but that's a fan theory. What about the entire trial that puts him on the death penalty, did that not happen too? It's not about being spoonfed the plot, it's about why is a movie doing the exact opposite of everything. Arthur becoming Joker gets a sequel where Joker becomes Arthur, even the director said he's at peace being Arthur by the end of 2. I have my own theories but art isn't enjoyable when you have to theorize everything, since when did Joker become fnaf???
@@felixthecat2786 this..this right here is all speculation. Todd literally seen $$ and threw together a movie he could cash in on and killed the main character so he didn't have to touch it again.
Speak for yourself, I loved the first film and adored this one. don’t get upset because it’s something alien to you. Go watch Venom or other MCU movies if what you want is predictable, crowded movies that lack depth, Better yet Don't I Invite you to Branch out and watch Movies that have Any actual Deep character develoment.
@mfliminal If someone can follow along with the first Joker, they certainly can with the second. Also, if you think that either Joker requires deep philosophical thinking to follow along then you've got a very simple mind. Both Jokers are pretty easy to follow and I can think of a dozen movies off the top of my head that require actual thinking and neither Joker is even close to on that list lol
Please retire, you have destroyed one of the most iconic roles in film history. Even the Joker in Suicide squad was better. What the hell was that fever dream on LSD . I'm going to watch The Dark Knight now and cry myself to sleep.
"And it's those kind of people that change for the better, those of us who've made something of our lives, will always look at those who haven't, as nothing but clowns." Not only did Thomas Wayne say that, but the sequel did too. That's the difference between 1 and 2.
Movies can be art. But they are always a product. So matter what you might be trying to induce in the observer, if the consumer is unsatisfied you failed.
If you don’t concern about DC arc and the fans, then don’t take advantage of DC’s Joker IP and make your own clown movie. That is the bold move. Don’t cowardly hide behind the mask of art and creativity.
WTF are you Going on about? How would you have approached this film? Joker 1 introduced us to a character we've seen thousands of iterations of, And Todd Phillips ambitiously took pieces of that and made them work in a real world context. This film delivers realism and true depth, with meaningful exploration behind every scene, rather than relying on shallow cameos to elicit crowd reactions. This narrative may not be for you at least, not yet. The musical aspect in this installment was beautifully executed, blending seamlessly into the story. And that ending? It was powerful.
@mfliminal Majority of fans disagree with you and the second movie ruined so much of what the first film established. There shouldn't have been a sequel in the first place. Don't even get me started on the casting of Gag as Harley Quinn. It's like they found the person who least resembles the beautiful Harley Quinn.
@@mfliminalyou are a joke and probably one of the only people on this planet that enjoyed that garbage of a movie. There will always be people like you defending trash no matter what. This movie sucked and that’s facts
Yeah he took what we all thought was going to be about “the joker” and made it about “a joker” who just happened to live in gotham where there are no supervillains or a batman
I'll never understand why they ruined the first Joker on purpose, but it's not Todd's fault. In fact, I have a feeling that he got forced to make this unnecessary sequel.
I hope I’m around in 10 years time to watch and read people eat their words… when they finally realise that Joker: FAD is a great follow up to an exceptional movie.
OH MY GOD YOU CAN SEE IT. What an utter fucking masterpiece this movie is? What the hell is going on? Gaga deserves an Oscar. Brilliant film and it stands on it's own away from the Scorsese fetishism of the first. Phoenix's utterly broken humanity when the mask slips and he starts crying in the courtroom for what he's done to Gary, his one and only real friend. This film is heartbreaking and also weirdly joyful at the same time. Harley Quinn is monstrously evil in this movie. She makes Margot's Harley look like a cartoon. The ending that elevated Arthur from gun toting psycho to 'the ORIGINAL Joker', a god among maniacs, a religious figure the Bat can never dislodge or capture and who was most likely his brother. I like it more than the first. This is actually scary, that a film so brilliant can be released to such bitter disappointment at not being spoon fed Batman/punch/Joker/punch drivel.
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one defending this film it definitely feels that way, lol. Absolutely, this film was such a cathartic experience. I appreciate your Brain.
Lol. The film makes the 1st movie obsolete. And I have a few fundamental gripes about the 1st movie....but it was a classic. The sequel didn't have to be made. It should've just been called "The Tragedy of Arthur". The Joker didn't actually show up in the sequel.
I love the first movie but this is what happens when you stray too far from the source material. Would you like to see Gandalf as some magician in the remake? NO. Gandalf is Gandalf. I get that there's so many versions of the Joker you have to change some things but wow
No one wanted to see Jokers character development undone, him beaten, humiliated, gang banged and killed. All while Lady Gaga sings and prances around.
You don't understand this movie. Joker finally murders Arthur Fleck and let's go of his ego entirely.
The Arthur Fleck we knew was not a man devoid of empathy. He didn't kill senselessly. He killed people who bullied and hurt him. His brief interaction with puddles and Leigh were the last things holding him to his ego Arthur Fleck. Without that empathy he is Joker.
The new Joker that killed Arthur in the end is free to kill without empathy. The end of the second movie is actually the end of the first movie. Without empathy he's free to kill the social worker who's completely innocent.
Did you notice how they didn't even acknowledge her death in this movie? Arthur killed seven people in the first movie, not six. Even Arthur doesn't acknowledge this because it didn't happen yet. The visitor waiting for him was the social worker.
Now's he's free to escape and fully immerse himself into his shadow. He has nothing left to care about without Leigh.
The Folie a Deux is you; it's the audience.
Finally, either the man who stabs Arthur is a fabrication in his mind or he's the real Joker.
Maybe let go of your desire to have everything spelled out for you and try to see things with a little bit of subtext and subtlety. It makes art more enjoyable when you can do this.
it wasn't character development in the first movie. you missed the fucking point. the joke is on you.
@@felixthecat2786 Sure he had some sort of morality to his killings in the first movie, but by the end he was fascinated by chaos and disorganization and didn't care if police were beaten to death in front of him. And so your saying the ending to joker 2 is a metaphor for the ending to the first one? Yeah I like that, but that's a fan theory. What about the entire trial that puts him on the death penalty, did that not happen too? It's not about being spoonfed the plot, it's about why is a movie doing the exact opposite of everything. Arthur becoming Joker gets a sequel where Joker becomes Arthur, even the director said he's at peace being Arthur by the end of 2. I have my own theories but art isn't enjoyable when you have to theorize everything, since when did Joker become fnaf???
@@felixthecat2786 this..this right here is all speculation. Todd literally seen $$ and threw together a movie he could cash in on and killed the main character so he didn't have to touch it again.
Nice humiliation ritual
The guy hates the fans of the first movie.
Speak for yourself, I loved the first film and adored this one. don’t get upset because it’s something alien to you. Go watch Venom or other MCU movies if what you want is predictable, crowded movies that lack depth, Better yet Don't I Invite you to Branch out and watch Movies that have Any actual Deep character develoment.
I’m a fan of both. You’re a disgrace
@mfliminal If someone can follow along with the first Joker, they certainly can with the second.
Also, if you think that either Joker requires deep philosophical thinking to follow along then you've got a very simple mind. Both Jokers are pretty easy to follow and I can think of a dozen movies off the top of my head that require actual thinking and neither Joker is even close to on that list lol
He makes fun of mediocrity, i love this movie
no
he hates people who see arthur for only joker
No wonder his sequel is boring. Can barely listen to him for 5 mins without falling asleep!
Thank you Todd for having the balls to make something original. Just saw it for the second time in IMAX. Brilliant!!
So the lesson hers is…
Don’t let this man do sequels to his own movies
Na I liked the Hangover sequels
This man is so obsessed with Disney music that he forgot joker existed.
How to ruin a billion dollar franchise: The Movie
💯
The Musical*
It was good tho
Look at you focusing on money instead of art. Both movies are fantastic
@@ManifestScrutiny you can make an argument for the first one but the sequel is considered not good overwhelmingly by fandom, gen public and critics 🤷
Please retire, you have destroyed one of the most iconic roles in film history. Even the Joker in Suicide squad was better. What the hell was that fever dream on LSD .
I'm going to watch The Dark Knight now and cry myself to sleep.
Hilarious and very sad to see this bot comment trolling
i loved this movie, it was a brilliant masterpiece and I'm happy that no one understands it. It makes it even more special.
Care to explain?
🙄 yeah you're the intellectual alright lol. everyone who didn't like it just didn't get it
Most people understood it. They just didn't like it.
We have him!! The smartest smarty smart person on the net who understands more then everyone because he sees things differently 😂😂😂
"And it's those kind of people that change for the better, those of us who've made something of our lives, will always look at those who haven't, as nothing but clowns." Not only did Thomas Wayne say that, but the sequel did too. That's the difference between 1 and 2.
Oh wow, he was sincere in making the sequel, that’s sadder in a way. When Arthur Fleck becomes the script writers.
money
Inspirations behind the sequel : 20 million $
Movies can be art. But they are always a product. So matter what you might be trying to induce in the observer, if the consumer is unsatisfied you failed.
Guy tried to make a movie about a clown, ended up making a clown movie💀
Atleast I know to never watch a Todd phillips movie😂
Bars.
The main inspiration was money
Both movies were perfect and blended so well together. Classics
Bro, redo Cinderella if you are bored.
He created sooooo much art...
Only to destroy that art in the sequel
If you don’t concern about DC arc and the fans, then don’t take advantage of DC’s Joker IP and make your own clown movie. That is the bold move. Don’t cowardly hide behind the mask of art and creativity.
WTF are you Going on about?
How would you have approached this film? Joker 1 introduced us to a character we've seen thousands of iterations of, And Todd Phillips ambitiously took pieces of that and made them work in a real world context. This film delivers realism and true depth, with meaningful exploration behind every scene, rather than relying on shallow cameos to elicit crowd reactions. This narrative may not be for you at least, not yet.
The musical aspect in this installment was beautifully executed, blending seamlessly into the story. And that ending? It was powerful.
@@mfliminalyea powerfully ass
@mfliminal Majority of fans disagree with you and the second movie ruined so much of what the first film established. There shouldn't have been a sequel in the first place. Don't even get me started on the casting of Gag as Harley Quinn. It's like they found the person who least resembles the beautiful Harley Quinn.
@@mfliminalyou are a joke and probably one of the only people on this planet that enjoyed that garbage of a movie. There will always be people like you defending trash no matter what. This movie sucked and that’s facts
Yeah he took what we all thought was going to be about “the joker” and made it about “a joker” who just happened to live in gotham where there are no supervillains or a batman
WOW!! Joker: Folie A Deux was AWESOME!! I watched Joker: Folie A Deux on October 4, 2024!! A MASTERPIECE!!💜💚💜💚
Betting Todd Phillips has seen both AT LONG LAST LOVE and ONE FROM THE HEART.
I liked the movie :)
Same
Yeah me too
I'll never understand why they ruined the first Joker on purpose, but it's not Todd's fault. In fact, I have a feeling that he got forced to make this unnecessary sequel.
It’s Warner bros and their endless lust for money.
@@フランクランドン Do you think making a sequel was unnecessary from a beginning?
They could have always gotten another director. Didn’t need to be Todd Philips.
Phht. How did they ruin it?
The worst movie ever made
TODD YOUR LEGECY IS GONE
"You get what you ******* deserve!"
I hope I’m around in 10 years time to watch and read people eat their words… when they finally realise that Joker: FAD is a great follow up to an exceptional movie.
OH MY GOD YOU CAN SEE IT. What an utter fucking masterpiece this movie is? What the hell is going on? Gaga deserves an Oscar. Brilliant film and it stands on it's own away from the Scorsese fetishism of the first. Phoenix's utterly broken humanity when the mask slips and he starts crying in the courtroom for what he's done to Gary, his one and only real friend. This film is heartbreaking and also weirdly joyful at the same time. Harley Quinn is monstrously evil in this movie. She makes Margot's Harley look like a cartoon. The ending that elevated Arthur from gun toting psycho to 'the ORIGINAL Joker', a god among maniacs, a religious figure the Bat can never dislodge or capture and who was most likely his brother. I like it more than the first. This is actually scary, that a film so brilliant can be released to such bitter disappointment at not being spoon fed Batman/punch/Joker/punch drivel.
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one defending this film it definitely feels that way, lol. Absolutely, this film was such a cathartic experience. I appreciate your Brain.
Amen
Lol. The film makes the 1st movie obsolete. And I have a few fundamental gripes about the 1st movie....but it was a classic. The sequel didn't have to be made. It should've just been called "The Tragedy of Arthur". The Joker didn't actually show up in the sequel.
From a narrative standpoint it was pretty bad. 15 years from now it'll go down as one those cases of the "sequel jinx".
0:50 You can't concern yourself with those pesky fans and what they've come to expect of something they've been a fan of for decades.
I love the first movie but this is what happens when you stray too far from the source material. Would you like to see Gandalf as some magician in the remake? NO. Gandalf is Gandalf. I get that there's so many versions of the Joker you have to change some things but wow
‘Creating art’? I’m sorry but this guy’s deluded
better than joker 1 and i'm tired of pretending it's not
Lmfaoo!! 🤣🤣🤣
@@GhettoGhost732 lmfaooo you have no original opinions and you can't think critically about anything you watch!!!
You're on your own on that one. I liked the sequel, more than most, but it was a wasted opportunity to make a great movie instead of a good movie.
Pretty sure Todd Philips had AI write this brainless script
Is that you fk up "joker" this classic character?
Joker 2: The Squeakuel
Joker 3: In space
🎸👍🤙
$$$
if you need notes to read your questions word by word you need some work as a journalist
We never asked for this 😢
Wow .. what a disaster
This movie is like putting the wrong music to the best words. Absolutely irritating
Luigi Mangione killed the wrong guy