I miss him also and I only discovered him on UA-cam a couple of months ago. I believe his field of Interest into the other the other created beings in God's universe maybe controversial but I treasure a statement and the book he wrote about what does God want. To me if that's all he produced in his entire life as far as literature goes it would suffice as a great contribution to mankind
Professor Heiser has mad sick theo bro game !!! He is in heaven smiling down on all of us learning from his teachings and furthering on the cause! Much eternal love to this brother who I call " THE Professor "
Totally agree with you Mike! Even though that's what most churches teach as to where demons come from. A good study into Genesis 6 shows you that the Fallen Angel's offspring were the Nephilim and when they died they became disembodied spirits hence demons. Miss your teachings Mike
Hi Mike - Acts 4:12, Yes, that's right! Hence, the Nephilim could be said to still be around, as the saying goes, "Its not the outside that matters, but what's on the inside!"
If you only knew. It's "to be continued" it appears, possibly coming from a disembodied spirit who somehow was or the spirit has to do with Mary Todd Lincoln and then, 80 or so years later, Gladys Presley. I quit a lady I had cleaned house for almost 20 years..not because of the bizarre physical occurences that happened every time I was there the summer of '21. It's a long testimony..2 years and it's still happening but not at her house...like 2 sources telling me in strange out of the blue ways. If she and the 2 women I mentioned earlier, were walking down the street together, they'd pass for triplets. My ancestors and myself have the most profiund parallels to both families. However, the lady here where I live, hasn't known anything about me much and certainly not before she met me...I didn't for awhile even think she was behind it because it was things of my past she didn't know about. I went through some deep thoughts remembering the twisted events that brought me to this town twice... suddenly the words came that I've been placed here.
Hi Mike, Thanks 4 the👍 up, if that was you, or anyone else? Yeah, as u stated about Churches teaching contrary to this truth, bear in mind that "Christianity" is actually "Rome/ Babylon" to a higher or lesser degree, and a counterfeit to the new testament ( I'm not afraid to say this!) Also Rome never made it to Ethiopia, where the book of Enoch, even to this day is preserved in there bible! Praise God for that!!
Wrong, The Nephilim were the offspring of a certain class of angels called The Watchers. However when the Nephilim died they became evil spirits NOT demons. 2 different words in the bible.
A commonly held belief by the vast majority of Christians today after having been spoon fed the scriptures. It's amazing how few believers "actually" read the whole of the scriptures w/o having someone else tell them what to believe or being coached to how to read it. You should be given wisdom by your relationship with god, not what people tell you to believe and how.
Hi, Yes like me! Having spent 30 years or so, in this false counterfeit to the new testament, called "Christianity" ( because that's what it is, a counterfeit) I now study the scriptures using the principals of exegesis + hermeneutics! Wow! No wonder Jesus Christ stating " ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set thee free" Although many of the ways God sets one free is not never exhaustive, but him leading disciples to use the above principles of exegesis + hermeneutics, sure is one top ten on Gods list!!
Also prophetically stars can represent human rules and kings. So it’s not even fully clear if these 3rd of the stars falling from heaven are angels or human rulers. Remember that prophetic language used in visions isn’t meant to be literally but symbolic
Revelation 12:4: "His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth so that he might devour her child the moment it was born."
The Book of Revelation is a Blue Print for what God was going to do before He said one word. Should we build a tower without first counting the cost? Do we start a project without a plan and then become unable to complete it? Stars are angels. Morning Stars. Job 38:6,7
The Koine Greek of Revelation 12:4 has a literal interpretation of “third part”. It has nothing to do with a numerical amount, but more precisely of a category. John is pointing out precisely that one sub-set of a larger whole with three (probably distinct) divisions or categories is being spoken of herein.
That’s also found nowhere in the bible… In scripture we have the word “everlasting” mentioned almost always over the word “eternal”. By definition if something lasts forever there is time there.
@@joshuakarr-BibleMan The heavens and the earth, spacetime were all made together it's the same universe. This universe will be destroyed by fire eventually and we'll be in a new one with a new heaven. There is no reason to say heaven is outside of time. God was before the creation of this universe but being tied to this universe now himself at least in part exists bound to the time of this universe as he to some degree is in heaven and walked the earth yet the bible says the whole universe exists within and is sustained by God.
@@chrissonofpear1384 The bible says Lucifer corrupted the traffic, which means he corrupted Gods word he was supposed to minister to those under him. That is how Lucifer turned angels, demons, man against God through deception and lies.
@@FromValkyrie I ask because Heiser makes a big deal of the Angels who fell and came to Earth. I was curious if there was an answer he or his understudies took hold of concerning the number. But you're right it really doesn't matter.
The man child called up to the throne of God, Re 12:5, is the rapture of the church. Because the entire 12 chapter has not taken place yet. The three woes establish a linear chronology within the 8th and 12th chapters of the book of Revelation, which links the three woes to the last three, 5-7, trumpets. Revelation 8:13 KJVS And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound! The third woe is Satan cast down to earth , Re 12:12.
So how many rebelled? What is the answer? Is there any theology on this? Michael Heiser a pretty impressive dude. I wonder why GOD took him home? At least he won't have to go through the tribulation.
He always says this, but in Revelations the tail of the dragon sweeping a third of the stars is clearly a reference to angels in heaven. Does he ever actually say what he thinks that line is actually referring to?
@@landygreene8523 Since you're so enlightened, please give me a timestamp from the minute and twelve second video where he states explicitly what the stars are referring to in that passage.
The video is just over one minute. Michael Heisers point is: It IS said that one third of the angels rebelled against god. But not before the fall of Adam and Eve, but later, when the virgin mary gave birth to the messiah.
@@liia9736 Say from 30 to 55 sec covers your question provided you keep in mind that in order to read it he has placed it on 2 screens and gives each adequate time to be read.
@@herr.schmidt hmmm, verse 4 in Rev 12 describes: "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." Then in verse 5: "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.". So it's NOT later, after the birth of the Messiah at least. Third part of the stars of heaven is clearly before the birth of Christ. The first 3 verses has 2 wonders (they are named wonder in Heaven), like 2 historical things that happend? There is no clear reference to before or after the fall of Adam/Eve only the mention of 2 wonders.
Isaiah 11:6 once said "The lion will lay down with the lamb." Not one version of the bible says that now. No matter how old it is. *The wolf who scatters the flock is here my friends and the church has been given over to a reprobate mind. This meaning that the church leaders are quietly giving another gosple in these last days.*
Even the dead sea scrolls that were found read as the bible reads now it never said "The lion will lay down with the Lamb" What is your source that it said that?
The true church remains and consists of a remnant and not any particular denomination. Within each denomination there remains a few that are living sacrifices for Jesus Christ and unmoved by any evil spirit. The remnant is out front but in the background. All the rest of false christianity will soon fail and fall as it will not be able to hold up as the world crumbles. Then the remnant will surface, even be persecuted, and we will return to practicing faith in Christ as in the book of Acts.
So you say that God is not able to preserve His Word? Just because you in your mind have the Lion and the Lamb that will lay down? You mix up scriptures and now you are bringing heresy to proclaim false things and accuse brothers/sisters of false things? That sir is a dangerous thing.
Which "fall" are you talking about..............Satan's fall or Adam and Eve's "fall?" They are two very different things. Satan was already a fallen being when he confronted Adam and Eve in the garden. Just how long he had been a fallen being, before he attempted to deceive Eve, we do not know. His own "fall" from grace may have taken place slightly prior or even ages prior to the "fall" in the Garden. "Original sin" for mankind occurred in the Garden, but their sin was NOT the "original sin" in the universe as a whole. That took place with Satan and his fallen angel companions prior to the Garden and the creation of mankind.
Satan was one of the heavenly beings called a cherub, and cherubim guarded God's throne. While the Bible doesn't state why Satan is referred to as the dragon, it's pretty clear he is a terrible and powerful beast like the word dragon is meant.
Satan was one of the heavenly beings called a cherub, and cherubim guarded God's throne. While the Bible doesn't state why Satan is referred to as the dragon, it's pretty clear he is a terrible and powerful beast like the word dragon is meant.
I have always felt that time passage in our experience here and now is very different in the "spiritual world" how ever that is defined. But the simple fact we are stuck with is it will always be speculation. No one knows so we can only be sure about what is taught in the Bible.
YHWH fulfills the law by judging the gods and becoming the snake. Adam, the Christ, wields the fiery sword, judges the earth, and becomes a worm, thus fulfilling the law.
Guess what - the heavenly realm is on a different timeline than the Earth. From the standpoint of eternity, everything on Earth happens at the same time. So, we don't know when the angelic creatures rebelled in relation to events on Earth, but we have a pretty good idea that it was before the fall in the Garden, because Adam and Eve were tempted by the leader of the rebels. This is a good example of a scholar relying on academic rules more than the guidance of the Holy Spirit to do interpretation.
HERE is the guidance of the Holy Spirit. GOD's prophet, the prophesied return of Elijah, speaks: "You do err, not knowing Scriptures nor the power of GOD." (Matthew 22:29) One cannot know Scriptures (nor anything else) until one finds the "Philosopher's Stone," which is the fact that GOD IS ABSOLUTELY ALL POWERFUL. One will then realize that GOD'S ANGELS CANNOT FALL. (See Psalm 103:21) Any reference to "fallen angels" is symbolic. SATAN is the selfish EGO that GOD's fallen children have made for themselves; the "fallen angel" of GOD's children, which is but an irrational fantasy. And this imaginary creation - the ego, "satan," the opposite of G(O)OD - was the cause of "the fall" of GOD's children, who are "saved" by ABANDONING the imaginary ego - like Jesus Christ did. That's why He came; to show us how to abandon the ego. All mysteries have been revealed in these "end times." Click and ye shall find!
I don't think Michael Heiser has ever said that angelic rebellions have not happened prior the creation of Adam. His main point is that the Bible does not say that *the third of the Heavenly Host* rebelled *before* the creation of man. In his interpretation, the third rebelled in reaction to the birth of Christ. On the other hand, the man child in Revelation 12 may be a reference to the glorification/rapture of the Church. The description may be so very Christ-like because Jesus is the head of the Church. The man child may be a reference to Christ and Church united. It would make sense that some would oppose such grace, dignity and importance given to humans.
@@anikozoe5028 You know, you're right. I was being unfair to Heiser. I've read several of his books, and I know what he was getting at. He could be right that the angelic rebellion was progressive. I'm just married to a lot of ideas that he tried to overturn in his theology. The passage in Rev. 12 about the dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars from heaven doesn't refer to the initial rebellion in my view. It's pretty obviously addressing the progression in the role that the rebels play in the overall plan of God. There is nothing to prohibit the notion though, that all of them had rebelled in the pre-Adamic past and were only permitted to invade the Earth en masse in advance of the birth of Jesus, intensifying the angelic conflict that has been waging throughout human history. On the contrary, I think that's the implication. There is clearly more than one conflict described there and the passage seems to span the history of Israel. The part about a war in heaven and its transition to warfare on Earth is certainly talking about future events. There are many aspects of the supernatural realm that haven't been revealed to us that leave us with many unanswered questions about the things that have been revealed. Such as: If a third of the angelic creation rebelled and have been condemned to the lake of fire, why hasn't their sentence been executed? Why were the Devil, the fallen angels, and demons instead allowed to continue in the heavenly realm even participating in the Divine Council? Why are they given freedom to influence, attack, control, and even bodily possess humans? (and, according to Heiser, mate with them) If they rebelled, they have free will. If so, then they also have the ability to repent. Why isn't that happening to any of the myriads of fallen angels? Why wouldn't such an appeal for mercy be answered with their pardon and reconciliation? Yet the Bible makes no mention of salvation of the fallen "sons of God" per se. It states that they believe (sufficient for human salvation), but they are not said to be saved. I think that there are solutions to those problems, and that they are directly and intimately related to the reason for our existence. We may not know the answers, but we're surely free to speculate and draw logical inferences from what has been revealed. The more we come to know the Lord, the more we can know how He thinks and trust His decisions and actions to conform to His character. I liked Heiser. I just think that he had a tendency to equivocate when he saw a scholarly conflict and, in some cases came to theological conclusions that weren't warranted from a spiritual standpoint but were supported by a strictly academic reading in context. This is one of those cases. It's no problem for me. It's common for scholars to bend to the influences of their peers, because they're constantly being challenged. Heiser remained true to the Gospel as he understood it. That's the main thing. I see his point, and he could be right, and I could be wrong. I simply think that there are holes and contradictions in his theology that are caused by his approach that are resolved by other theories.
@@brettrice5523 You have raised so many great questions! ....the answers of which we are longing to find out, while Dr. Heiser may already be glorying in by now. ಥ‿ಥ I suspect we won't have to wonder much longer either, as we are reaching the end of the end of the Church Age and the day of our redemption is drawing near. We will soon know the greater context of rebellions, the creation of man and salvation. 🙏🏻 Maranatha.
Accept that Christians very tuned into the Bible sense that Rev passage is speaking to that. And Heiser as usual speaks like he has a lock down argument when he clearly doesn't. Those angels symbolically referenced in the Rev passage could have been in a rebellious state already.
The Book of Revelation is a prophetic book, and a prophetic book uses symbols to represent something - and since we do not see a lot of "suns" or Jupiters or Saturns or other planets still rolling over the face of our little ball of mud - it MUST represent evil angels. Lord Jesus mentions many times "evil angels" in a plurality. So I believe the men of faith for two millenia interpreted correctly: "one third of the angels" were duped by the former Morning star - turned "evil archangel" ! That is why sin still mysteriously but powerfully has the entire world in it's eagle-like "evil" powerful talons...
Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:15, Luke 3:38 references men as the 'sons of God'. Where is it written in scripture that angels are the sons of God? Hebrews 1:5 says exactly different..angels are not sons of God. Genesis 6:2 is referring to human men. The angels that left their 1st estate are in chains awaiting judgement Jude 1:6.
From Enoch we learn that there were other angles that were evil. Genesis 6 shows us there were rebel angels who took human wives. But we do not know how many. I seem to recall that Michael was sick a while back - how is he doing ?
Yes sir. I find that story in Genesis to be a significant attempt to corrupt the human blood line in hopes to prevent the birth of Christ. I have not personally looked into the book of Enoch for that story, but I thought it (not the Bible) said there were 200 fallen angels who took the human wives. I wanted to capture this video clip to reinforce the idea that nowhere in scripture does it say anything about 1/3 of the angels rebelling with Satan prior to the fall in the garden. I have a friend that follows him more closely than I do and she said that he is doing okay atm, but has lost a lot of weight.
@Kerry Genesis 1 talks about when God created the Heavens, the Earth, animals, fish, birds and Man & Woman etc. I believe that the book of Revelation is not about future events but where for the Christians back before 70 AD because Revelation 11 says this "Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months." Revelation 11:1-2 ESV The Temple was completely destroyed in 70 AD just like Jesus predicted in Mathew 24 I can send you a video explaining this a lot better if you'd like? It would take awhile to try and explain everything.
@Kerry I guess but there is also partial preterist I guess I'm kind of in-between those there's different beliefs in that stuff. When I first started out studying the Bible I was pre-tribulation rapture then I was post-tribulation rapture and now I'm a partial preterist/preterist
What the good Dr. left out is that the verse in Rev. 12:4, that reads: “And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and HURLED them to the earth.” The Greek word [ἀστήρ ] translated as “stars” does NOT imply “angels,” but “as-tare,” from where we get the word “asteroids.” Food for thought: The FIRST SIGN of Rev. 12, manifested in September 2017, and everybody FORGOT that Revelation 12 has TWO SIGNS, first the Woman, and the second, the fiery Red Dragon whose “TAIL” drags asteroids and hurls them to earth. This September will be the seventh year since the first sign, and seven is a very significant biblical number. Ever seen the Sumerian depiction of a red star with a tail that looks like a meteor, that according to them brought great destruction around 4,000 B.C. Or thereabouts, when it passed near the Earth? Is it just a coincidence that the US government according to the U.S. Sec. Rumsfeld, in a televised press conference ON 9/10/2001, reported that the government had lost track of $3 trillion dollars in the Pentagon budget. Next day a MISSILE, not an airliner (look at the only video that the f b I didn’t confiscate in the Judicial Watch website) HITS the window of the Pentagon accounting office! Has ANYBODY heard about this missing money, or from where the military got the money to build the D.U.M.B.’s and underground cities? Have you noticed lately that all of the billionaires are busy building underground bunkers and shelters? You can’t make this 💩 up! Are we getting the picture now?
GOD's prophet, the prophesied return of Elijah, speaks: "You do err, not knowing Scriptures nor the power of GOD." (Matthew 22:29) One cannot know Scriptures (nor anything else) until one finds the "Philosopher's Stone," which is the fact that GOD IS ABSOLUTELY ALL POWERFUL. One will then realize that GOD'S ANGELS CANNOT FALL. (See Psalm 103:21) Any reference to "fallen angels" is symbolic. SATAN is the selfish EGO that GOD's fallen children have made for themselves; the "fallen angel" of GOD's children, which is but an irrational fantasy. And this imaginary creation - the ego, "satan," the opposite of G(O)OD - was the cause of "the fall" of GOD's children, who are "saved" by ABANDONING the imaginary ego - like Jesus Christ did. That's why He came; to show us how to abandon the ego. All mysteries have been revealed in these "end times." Click and ye shall find!
I'm quite sure that portion if the revelation is outside of time. The child was snatched up to God and the womn fled to the wilderness, and then again the woman was given wings to fly to the wilderness? No. In some ways, the woman is Eve, and she also represents Mary, and in some ways she is the church. Heiser's grasp of Scripture is dubious, on a spiritual level.
There are three simulations, heaven, the ghost/angel level, and the material universe. The first high level angels in this universe were created by Michael/Jesus and Spirit in the ghost/angel level. The first angels then non-sexually reproduced lesser angels. Lucifer was a high level administrative/management angel in the angel headquarters (In my Father's home there are many mansions) located in the ghost/angel level. Satan was Lucifer's first assistant. Neither of them were ever on the earth. The Devil was the highest ranking angel on the earth and the serpent in the garden. Beelzebub was a low level rebel angel on the earth. They are not the same being, they are all separate angels involved in the rebellion. As for the cause of the rebellion being that the Messiah was coming, this is only partially correct. Lucifer wanted to maintain power and control over the angels. Michael/Jesus began this universe but He had to have many life experiences before He could have full authority and power. First Michael had to live and experience being various types of angels, then the last one was as a human being. Lucifer knew that once Michael/Jesus finished His human experience that Michael/Jesus would become more involved in universal affairs so Lucifer began his rebellion just before Michael/Jesus came to the earth.
I miss you, Dr. Heiser. You were a lighthouse in the darkness. Godspeed, sir.
I miss him too
@@tdk3713 We'll soon meet in the spirit realm **wink**
I don’t miss him because he taught some strange doctrines at time. Much learning puffed him up in pride like Felix in the New Testament.
@@WW3_Soon yeah ok 🙄
I miss him also and I only discovered him on UA-cam a couple of months ago. I believe his field of Interest into the other the other created beings in God's universe maybe controversial but I treasure a statement and the book he wrote about what does God want. To me if that's all he produced in his entire life as far as literature goes it would suffice as a great contribution to mankind
Professor Heiser has mad sick theo bro game !!! He is in heaven smiling down on all of us learning from his teachings and furthering on the cause! Much eternal love to this brother who I call " THE Professor "
RIP M Heiser.. Learned so much from him
Totally agree with you Mike! Even though that's what most churches teach as to where demons come from. A good study into Genesis 6 shows you that the Fallen Angel's offspring were the Nephilim and when they died they became disembodied spirits hence demons. Miss your teachings Mike
Hi Mike - Acts 4:12,
Yes, that's right! Hence, the Nephilim could be said to still be around, as the saying goes, "Its not the outside that matters, but what's on the inside!"
If you only knew. It's "to be continued" it appears, possibly coming from a disembodied spirit who somehow was or the spirit has to do with Mary Todd Lincoln and then, 80 or so years later, Gladys Presley. I quit a lady I had cleaned house for almost 20 years..not because of the bizarre physical occurences that happened every time I was there the summer of '21. It's a long testimony..2 years and it's still happening but not at her house...like 2 sources telling me in strange out of the blue ways. If she and the 2 women I mentioned earlier, were walking down the street together, they'd pass for triplets. My ancestors and myself have the most profiund parallels to both families. However, the lady here where I live, hasn't known anything about me much and certainly not before she met me...I didn't for awhile even think she was behind it because it was things of my past she didn't know about. I went through some deep thoughts remembering the twisted events that brought me to this town twice... suddenly the words came that I've been placed here.
Hi Mike,
Thanks 4 the👍 up, if that was you, or anyone else?
Yeah, as u stated about Churches teaching contrary to this truth, bear in mind that "Christianity" is actually "Rome/ Babylon" to a higher or lesser degree, and a counterfeit to the new testament ( I'm not afraid to say this!)
Also Rome never made it to Ethiopia, where the book of Enoch, even to this day is preserved in there bible!
Praise God for that!!
Wrong, The Nephilim were the offspring of a certain class of angels called The Watchers. However when the Nephilim died they became evil spirits NOT demons. 2 different words in the bible.
@@stevenbeck5746 Hi Steven,
I'll look in2 this, and get back to you later.
THANKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A commonly held belief by the vast majority of Christians today after having been spoon fed the scriptures. It's amazing how few believers "actually" read the whole of the scriptures w/o having someone else tell them what to believe or being coached to how to read it. You should be given wisdom by your relationship with god, not what people tell you to believe and how.
Hi,
Yes like me! Having spent 30 years or so, in this false counterfeit to the new testament, called "Christianity" ( because that's what it is, a counterfeit) I now study the scriptures using the principals of exegesis + hermeneutics!
Wow! No wonder Jesus Christ stating " ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set thee free"
Although many of the ways God sets one free is not never exhaustive, but him leading disciples to use the above principles of exegesis + hermeneutics, sure is one top ten on Gods list!!
Sorry, " One of the top ten on God's list"
RIP Mike
Also prophetically stars can represent human rules and kings.
So it’s not even fully clear if these 3rd of the stars falling from heaven are angels or human rulers.
Remember that prophetic language used in visions isn’t meant to be literally but symbolic
Revelation 12:4:
"His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth so that he might devour her child the moment it was born."
The Book of Revelation is a Blue Print for what God was going to do before He said one word. Should we build a tower without first counting the cost? Do we start a project without a plan and then become unable to complete it? Stars are angels. Morning Stars. Job 38:6,7
And walking to Proxima Centauri, the nearest star, would take 950 million years!
The Koine Greek of Revelation 12:4 has a literal interpretation of “third part”. It has nothing to do with a numerical amount, but more precisely of a category. John is pointing out precisely that one sub-set of a larger whole with three (probably distinct) divisions or categories is being spoken of herein.
The easy answer, there is no time signature in heaven. God moves in and out of time as he pleases.
That’s also found nowhere in the bible… In scripture we have the word “everlasting” mentioned almost always over the word “eternal”. By definition if something lasts forever there is time there.
@Tiny Ford
God created time and space, and He remains their master in every way.
But why exactly, would any angel become unhappy, confused, ignorant, or gullible, in heaven, before any Revolt?@@joshuakarr-BibleMan
@@joshuakarr-BibleMan The heavens and the earth, spacetime were all made together it's the same universe. This universe will be destroyed by fire eventually and we'll be in a new one with a new heaven. There is no reason to say heaven is outside of time. God was before the creation of this universe but being tied to this universe now himself at least in part exists bound to the time of this universe as he to some degree is in heaven and walked the earth yet the bible says the whole universe exists within and is sustained by God.
@@chrissonofpear1384 The bible says Lucifer corrupted the traffic, which means he corrupted Gods word he was supposed to minister to those under him. That is how Lucifer turned angels, demons, man against God through deception and lies.
Those angels defected, they became deaf, defective and dejected.
That's what happens when we depart from Almighty God.
Okay then how many angels fell with Satan in the Rebellion against God in the beginning ?
There is no verse on it.
What does it matter?
@@FromValkyrie I ask because Heiser makes a big deal of the Angels who fell and came to Earth. I was curious if there was an answer he or his understudies took hold of concerning the number. But you're right it really doesn't matter.
Absolutely true.
Never heard this!
Where can I find the original full video of this
pretty sure it's this video: ua-cam.com/video/H41Lw2YEY74/v-deo.html
What did happen with angels swept by red dragon in Revelation 12:4?
The man child called up to the throne of God, Re 12:5, is the rapture of the church. Because the entire 12 chapter has not taken place yet. The three woes establish a linear chronology within the 8th and 12th chapters of the book of Revelation, which links the three woes to the last three, 5-7, trumpets.
Revelation 8:13 KJVS
And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
The third woe is Satan cast down to earth , Re 12:12.
Sooo, it's a timing issue? It didn't occur "before" the Fall, but it occurred sometime "after" the Fall?
So how many rebelled? What is the answer? Is there any theology on this? Michael Heiser a pretty impressive dude. I wonder why GOD took him home? At least he won't have to go through the tribulation.
He always says this, but in Revelations the tail of the dragon sweeping a third of the stars is clearly a reference to angels in heaven. Does he ever actually say what he thinks that line is actually referring to?
He just did, do you ever really listen
@@landygreene8523 Since you're so enlightened, please give me a timestamp from the minute and twelve second video where he states explicitly what the stars are referring to in that passage.
The video is just over one minute. Michael Heisers point is: It IS said that one third of the angels rebelled against god. But not before the fall of Adam and Eve, but later, when the virgin mary gave birth to the messiah.
@@liia9736 Say from 30 to 55 sec covers your question provided you keep in mind that in order to read it he has placed it on 2 screens and gives each adequate time to be read.
@@herr.schmidt hmmm, verse 4 in Rev 12 describes: "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." Then in verse 5: "And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.". So it's NOT later, after the birth of the Messiah at least. Third part of the stars of heaven is clearly before the birth of Christ. The first 3 verses has 2 wonders (they are named wonder in Heaven), like 2 historical things that happend? There is no clear reference to before or after the fall of Adam/Eve only the mention of 2 wonders.
Isaiah 11:6 once said "The lion will lay down with the lamb." Not one version of the bible says that now. No matter how old it is. *The wolf who scatters the flock is here my friends and the church has been given over to a reprobate mind. This meaning that the church leaders are quietly giving another gosple in these last days.*
Even the dead sea scrolls that were found read as the bible reads now it never said "The lion will lay down with the Lamb" What is your source that it said that?
@@apoligetics7 ua-cam.com/video/Ck6FuyXQROI/v-deo.html
The true church remains and consists of a remnant and not any particular denomination. Within each denomination there remains a few that are living sacrifices for Jesus Christ and unmoved by any evil spirit. The remnant is out front but in the background. All the rest of false christianity will soon fail and fall as it will not be able to hold up as the world crumbles. Then the remnant will surface, even be persecuted, and we will return to practicing faith in Christ as in the book of Acts.
So you say that God is not able to preserve His Word? Just because you in your mind have the Lion and the Lamb that will lay down? You mix up scriptures and now you are bringing heresy to proclaim false things and accuse brothers/sisters of false things? That sir is a dangerous thing.
@@travellingeurope3596 We have but one accuser Sir. And I am not He.
Which "fall" are you talking about..............Satan's fall or Adam and Eve's "fall?" They are two very different things. Satan was already a fallen being when he confronted Adam and Eve in the garden. Just how long he had been a fallen being, before he attempted to deceive Eve, we do not know. His own "fall" from grace may have taken place slightly prior or even ages prior to the "fall" in the Garden. "Original sin" for mankind occurred in the Garden, but their sin was NOT the "original sin" in the universe as a whole. That took place with Satan and his fallen angel companions prior to the Garden and the creation of mankind.
My question to you, is Satan a dragon instead of a an angel or a man?
RSVP
Wesdale, search for Unseen Realm, I believe he answers your question in that lecture. Satan was a throne guardian.
Satan was one of the heavenly beings called a cherub, and cherubim guarded God's throne. While the Bible doesn't state why Satan is referred to as the dragon, it's pretty clear he is a terrible and powerful beast like the word dragon is meant.
Satan was one of the heavenly beings called a cherub, and cherubim guarded God's throne. While the Bible doesn't state why Satan is referred to as the dragon, it's pretty clear he is a terrible and powerful beast like the word dragon is meant.
@@rustyrussell3211 "guardian"?
@@puichiung2959 "Guarded" ???
There is nothing to suggest that the 2 sentences are without a great chronological break, as with Gen1 verse 1 and 2.
I have always felt that time passage in our experience here and now is very different in the "spiritual world" how ever that is defined. But the simple fact we are stuck with is it will always be speculation. No one knows so we can only be sure about what is taught in the Bible.
YHWH fulfills the law by judging the gods and becoming the snake. Adam, the Christ, wields the fiery sword, judges the earth, and becomes a worm, thus fulfilling the law.
Guess what - the heavenly realm is on a different timeline than the Earth.
From the standpoint of eternity, everything on Earth happens at the same time.
So, we don't know when the angelic creatures rebelled in relation to events on Earth,
but we have a pretty good idea that it was before the fall in the Garden,
because Adam and Eve were tempted by the leader of the rebels.
This is a good example of a scholar relying on academic rules
more than the guidance of the Holy Spirit to do interpretation.
💫... Congrats! You get the gold star. Every good student of the Bible knows that not everything is laid out in sequential order.
HERE is the guidance of the Holy Spirit. GOD's prophet, the prophesied return of Elijah, speaks: "You do err, not knowing Scriptures nor the power of GOD." (Matthew 22:29) One cannot know Scriptures (nor anything else) until one finds the "Philosopher's Stone," which is the fact that GOD IS ABSOLUTELY ALL POWERFUL. One will then realize that GOD'S ANGELS CANNOT FALL. (See Psalm 103:21) Any reference to "fallen angels" is symbolic. SATAN is the selfish EGO that GOD's fallen children have made for themselves; the "fallen angel" of GOD's children, which is but an irrational fantasy. And this imaginary creation - the ego, "satan," the opposite of G(O)OD - was the cause of "the fall" of GOD's children, who are "saved" by ABANDONING the imaginary ego - like Jesus Christ did. That's why He came; to show us how to abandon the ego. All mysteries have been revealed in these "end times." Click and ye shall find!
I don't think Michael Heiser has ever said that angelic rebellions have not happened prior the creation of Adam. His main point is that the Bible does not say that *the third of the Heavenly Host* rebelled *before* the creation of man. In his interpretation, the third rebelled in reaction to the birth of Christ.
On the other hand, the man child in Revelation 12 may be a reference to the glorification/rapture of the Church. The description may be so very Christ-like because Jesus is the head of the Church. The man child may be a reference to Christ and Church united. It would make sense that some would oppose such grace, dignity and importance given to humans.
@@anikozoe5028
You know, you're right. I was being unfair to Heiser.
I've read several of his books, and I know what he was getting at.
He could be right that the angelic rebellion was progressive.
I'm just married to a lot of ideas that he tried to overturn in his theology.
The passage in Rev. 12 about the dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars from heaven doesn't refer to the initial rebellion in my view.
It's pretty obviously addressing the progression in the role that the rebels play in the overall plan of God.
There is nothing to prohibit the notion though, that all of them had rebelled in the pre-Adamic past and were only permitted to invade the Earth
en masse in advance of the birth of Jesus, intensifying the angelic conflict that has been waging throughout human history.
On the contrary, I think that's the implication.
There is clearly more than one conflict described there and the passage seems to span the history of Israel.
The part about a war in heaven and its transition to warfare on Earth is certainly talking about future events.
There are many aspects of the supernatural realm that haven't been revealed to us that
leave us with many unanswered questions about the things that have been revealed.
Such as:
If a third of the angelic creation rebelled and have been condemned to the lake of fire, why hasn't their sentence been executed?
Why were the Devil, the fallen angels, and demons instead allowed to continue in the heavenly realm even participating in the Divine Council?
Why are they given freedom to influence, attack, control, and even bodily possess humans? (and, according to Heiser, mate with them)
If they rebelled, they have free will. If so, then they also have the ability to repent.
Why isn't that happening to any of the myriads of fallen angels?
Why wouldn't such an appeal for mercy be answered with their pardon and reconciliation?
Yet the Bible makes no mention of salvation of the fallen "sons of God" per se.
It states that they believe (sufficient for human salvation), but they are not said to be saved.
I think that there are solutions to those problems, and that they are directly and intimately related to the reason for our existence.
We may not know the answers, but we're surely free to speculate and draw logical inferences from what has been revealed.
The more we come to know the Lord, the more we can know how He thinks and trust His decisions and actions to conform to
His character.
I liked Heiser.
I just think that he had a tendency to equivocate when he saw a scholarly conflict and, in some cases came to theological conclusions
that weren't warranted from a spiritual standpoint but were supported by a strictly academic reading in context.
This is one of those cases.
It's no problem for me. It's common for scholars to bend to the influences of their peers, because they're constantly being challenged.
Heiser remained true to the Gospel as he understood it. That's the main thing.
I see his point, and he could be right, and I could be wrong.
I simply think that there are holes and contradictions in his theology that are caused by his approach that are resolved by
other theories.
@@brettrice5523
You have raised so many great questions! ....the answers of which we are longing to find out, while Dr. Heiser may already be glorying in by now. ಥ‿ಥ I suspect we won't have to wonder much longer either, as we are reaching the end of the end of the Church Age and the day of our redemption is drawing near. We will soon know the greater context of rebellions, the creation of man and salvation. 🙏🏻 Maranatha.
RIP
Accept that Christians very tuned into the Bible sense that Rev passage is speaking to that. And Heiser as usual speaks like he has a lock down argument when he clearly doesn't. Those angels symbolically referenced in the Rev passage could have been in a rebellious state already.
The Book of Revelation is a prophetic book, and a prophetic book uses symbols to represent something - and since we do not see a lot of "suns" or Jupiters or Saturns or other planets still rolling over the face of our little ball of mud - it MUST represent evil angels. Lord Jesus mentions many times "evil angels" in a plurality. So I believe the men of faith for two millenia interpreted correctly: "one third of the angels" were duped by the former Morning star - turned "evil archangel" ! That is why sin still mysteriously but powerfully has the entire world in it's eagle-like "evil" powerful talons...
Indeed!
So is he suggesting that happened at the birth of Jesus? Because refuting a belief from a passage doesn't explain the passage.
As far as I was aware it was oral tradition
Romans 8:14, Philippians 2:15, Luke 3:38 references men as the 'sons of God'. Where is it written in scripture that angels are the sons of God? Hebrews 1:5 says exactly different..angels are not sons of God. Genesis 6:2 is referring to human men. The angels that left their 1st estate are in chains awaiting judgement Jude 1:6.
100%
Free will in heaven seems counter productive
From Enoch we learn that there were other angles that were evil. Genesis 6 shows us there were rebel angels who took human wives. But we do not know how many. I seem to recall that Michael was sick a while back - how is he doing ?
Yes sir. I find that story in Genesis to be a significant attempt to corrupt the human blood line in hopes to prevent the birth of Christ. I have not personally looked into the book of Enoch for that story, but I thought it (not the Bible) said there were 200 fallen angels who took the human wives. I wanted to capture this video clip to reinforce the idea that nowhere in scripture does it say anything about 1/3 of the angels rebelling with Satan prior to the fall in the garden.
I have a friend that follows him more closely than I do and she said that he is doing okay atm, but has lost a lot of weight.
Dr Michael Heiser past away on Monday Feb. 20 2023 from cancer and has entered into the Unseen Realm 🙏
@Kerry what don't you understand? I'll try and help you.
@Kerry Genesis 1 talks about when God created the Heavens, the Earth, animals, fish, birds and Man & Woman etc. I believe that the book of Revelation is not about future events but where for the Christians back before 70 AD because Revelation 11 says this "Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months."
Revelation 11:1-2 ESV
The Temple was completely destroyed in 70 AD just like Jesus predicted in Mathew 24 I can send you a video explaining this a lot better if you'd like? It would take awhile to try and explain everything.
@Kerry I guess but there is also partial preterist I guess I'm kind of in-between those there's different beliefs in that stuff. When I first started out studying the Bible I was pre-tribulation rapture then I was post-tribulation rapture and now I'm a partial preterist/preterist
This is what happens when you only read the Bible or just the King James Version. Obviously hadn’t read the Book of Enoch.
What the good Dr. left out is that the verse in Rev. 12:4, that reads:
“And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and HURLED them to the earth.”
The Greek word [ἀστήρ ] translated as “stars” does NOT imply “angels,” but “as-tare,” from where we get the word “asteroids.”
Food for thought:
The FIRST SIGN of Rev. 12, manifested in September 2017, and everybody FORGOT that Revelation 12 has TWO SIGNS, first the Woman, and the second, the fiery Red Dragon whose “TAIL” drags asteroids and hurls them to earth.
This September will be the seventh year since the first sign, and seven is a very significant biblical number.
Ever seen the Sumerian depiction of a red star with a tail that looks like a meteor, that according to them brought great destruction around 4,000 B.C. Or thereabouts, when it passed near the Earth?
Is it just a coincidence that the US government according to the U.S. Sec. Rumsfeld, in a televised press conference ON 9/10/2001, reported that the government had lost track of $3 trillion dollars in the Pentagon budget.
Next day a MISSILE, not an airliner (look at the only video that the f b I didn’t confiscate in the Judicial Watch website) HITS the window of the Pentagon accounting office! Has ANYBODY heard about this missing money, or from where the military got the money to build the D.U.M.B.’s and underground cities?
Have you noticed lately that all of the billionaires are busy building underground bunkers and shelters?
You can’t make this 💩 up!
Are we getting the picture now?
GOD's prophet, the prophesied return of Elijah, speaks: "You do err, not knowing Scriptures nor the power of GOD." (Matthew 22:29) One cannot know Scriptures (nor anything else) until one finds the "Philosopher's Stone," which is the fact that GOD IS ABSOLUTELY ALL POWERFUL. One will then realize that GOD'S ANGELS CANNOT FALL. (See Psalm 103:21) Any reference to "fallen angels" is symbolic. SATAN is the selfish EGO that GOD's fallen children have made for themselves; the "fallen angel" of GOD's children, which is but an irrational fantasy. And this imaginary creation - the ego, "satan," the opposite of G(O)OD - was the cause of "the fall" of GOD's children, who are "saved" by ABANDONING the imaginary ego - like Jesus Christ did. That's why He came; to show us how to abandon the ego. All mysteries have been revealed in these "end times." Click and ye shall find!
absolute rubbish dude...
I'm quite sure that portion if the revelation is outside of time.
The child was snatched up to God and the womn fled to the wilderness, and then again the woman was given wings to fly to the wilderness?
No.
In some ways, the woman is Eve, and she also represents Mary, and in some ways she is the church.
Heiser's grasp of Scripture is dubious, on a spiritual level.
Brilliant man. Absolutely wrong
There are three simulations, heaven, the ghost/angel level, and the material universe. The first high level angels in this universe were created by Michael/Jesus and Spirit in the ghost/angel level. The first angels then non-sexually reproduced lesser angels.
Lucifer was a high level administrative/management angel in the angel headquarters (In my Father's home there are many mansions) located in the ghost/angel level. Satan was Lucifer's first assistant. Neither of them were ever on the earth. The Devil was the highest ranking angel on the earth and the serpent in the garden. Beelzebub was a low level rebel angel on the earth. They are not the same being, they are all separate angels involved in the rebellion.
As for the cause of the rebellion being that the Messiah was coming, this is only partially correct. Lucifer wanted to maintain power and control over the angels. Michael/Jesus began this universe but He had to have many life experiences before He could have full authority and power. First Michael had to live and experience being various types of angels, then the last one was as a human being. Lucifer knew that once Michael/Jesus finished His human experience that Michael/Jesus would become more involved in universal affairs so Lucifer began his rebellion just before Michael/Jesus came to the earth.
Not true. Revelation 12 teaches two falls....
Whaaaat? How lost is this guy?
Now he knows how horribly wrong he was.
The Angels that defected with Donald Trump
Gods telling us it happened