My dad and I rode the river that summer. From Lee's Ferry to Lava Falls. The outflow from Glen Canyon Dam was one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. We reached out and touched the top of that giant spire around mile ten. We were one of the last groups to go through Crystal Rapid that year. We lost our motor going through Lava falls. We rode on a Hatch raft with two pontoons. I was under 100 lbs. and two grown men had to weight me down so that I wouldn't be thrown from raft. Best Ever!
I was on a 72 hour trip with George Wendt, Doc Nicholson, Curt Smith, Neusom Holmes and others. We rowed to the back of Redwall cavern. Three rapids on the whole run. Loved this montage. Doc wrote it up really well in BQR
Thanks so much for posting this documentary. I've been a passenger tree times, al around 10,000-15,000 cfs. Can't imagine what you guys went through. Interesting to see Lava being run on the left and Bedrock basically disappear. Earned my stripes last month by swimming Waltenburg from the beginning.
Thanks for putting this together. I have a friend who was on a private trip durning this period. His words could not discribe what you photos have showen. I like the video in the begining.
Love your comments. And you were right - the four-foot boards were to keep water from overflowing the dam because overflow would have destroyed it. Basic hydro-dynamics 101. I knew Kenton Grua, who rode the river at this level in a Dory! Using batteries and headlights at night.
OK... got in for now: Written by my friend Larry Stevens, P.H.D., most incredible naturalist in the Grand Canyon and old-timer boatman. That's why you can't google it. He lives in Flag.
I was wondering If I could use that song in one of my youtube videos, I am doing a canoe trip up in the Canadian Shield and this song would work really well. Thanks
He said "It was understood from the outset that the spillways would probably suffer some erosion from cavitation if they were used at high flows for long periods". Spillways are made for spilling water when flows are dangerously high, and the reservoir is threatening to overtop. If you are building a spillway, which is only used during high flows that are threatening the dam, it seems ridiculous to claim that they knew beforehand that they would be damaged from cavitation at high flows.
"it seems ridiculous to claim that they knew beforehand that they would be damaged from cavitation at high flows." What they had not yet figured out is how to deal with it. Since then they've arrived at a simple and non-obvious solution to break the suction.
@@thomasmaughan4798 This was a direct quote from them. If you’re interested in learning more about it you can read a great book called the Emerald Mile. It’s ostensibly about dory boatmen in the Grand Canyon, but it also has a deeply researched story about the dam and it’s construction. In that book it’s clear that like so many other government projects even including supplying our soldiers during war, when humans are involved and politicians dictate budgets and egos with power are making decisions, things get “ignored”. Such was the case here, where they were told repeatedly that the sandstone wasn’t hard enough, and that cavitation could be very destructive. You can see in the book that the then powers that be made the conscious decision to not address that. Consequences exist, whether people want to accept that or not.
The point is to illustrate that their "accurate" forecasts went from less than normal, to above normal by 12%, then by 31%, then by more than double.. not to mention that these updated "forecasts" were on the fly and rather late to do much about, and nearly cost the loss of the dam (by the chief's later off-the-cuff admission). None of this would have happened (and I wouldn't have had the experience of a lifetime!), had they not been greedy and left the dam nearly full before the spring floods.
I surely wish I would have started getting interested in Colorado River Rafting back in the 70's. It seems that today it is just too expensive and I have lost so much physically (cancer and age). River rafting for me would have been something like confronting my fear of white water (maybe it is good to have some fear of white water)
He said that because they ran it at high flow rate (not high pressure, cavitation occurs because the water pressure DROPS below the vapor pressure of water) that the spillway was damaged. If you are implying they didn't build it for a high enough pressure, then you should change that in your video.
Sorry... which snout? The ones in Crystal? If so, nope... all Diamond motor boatmen doing their one or two trips a year on the oars. Otherwise let me know a time point.
ahh, i think we've found our answer here. In the video, he is referring to a high flow rate through the spillway, which is an engineering limitation, not something they intended to happen. He wasn't talking about the flowrate of the river that built the water level up so high that the spillway had had to be run much longer than it was supposed to. Poor planning imo, I guess it was a matter of seeing the rapid fill-up coming.
Sorry, in Australia and very slow connections so can't view this older version for songs. Please re-comment with more info on that song you want, esp. lyrics. Perhaps I can help that way!
"Somewhere in the blue, you'll find me, Singing out my heartaches like a fool. Somewhere you'll find me, wishin' I could be anywhere with you" That is the chorus I think. I put the lyrics on Google, but can't find the song.
They new the spillways would work as long as the concrete was smooth as glass. Cause we all know that glass smooth concrete stays that way for at least 30 or 40 days after it is finished. I mean you cant blame them for expecting that concrete to be smooth 20 years after it was poured. HA HA One a more serious note these are two great videos of the Grand Flood.
Really! So you are an expert in concrete? The flanges were engineered. Do you even know what that means? NOT! Do you even know anything about the Hydrologic paradox? Again, I think Not. Look it up on Google. I don't want to waste my time educating you.
"only a 112% of normal" That means it was 12% higher than it usually is, not 112% higher. So getting shocked by going from 12% above normal to 110% above normal would be unexpected.
Jim Dye Sorry... very hard to do within this site, due to their oversight. They watch for links to other sites. You can find the link by going to my website onwardswaywardboatmen and email me with that request. I can then send it to you direct. Eezy-peezy.
If you have a Mac and MusicBox, or another way to record audio from your PC, you can just record it... glad you like it. What's on here is all there is amigo. Sorry.
You gave water to the delta last year and in June 2015 you are getting your reward. The universal law of supply ensures those who give are never impoverished. More releases to the delta !!! More water for everyone. Holding back only impoverishes all of us and accumulates a dangerous poverty for those who are greedy or act in fear. Give. Give. Give !!
2nd fastest....btw. For the story of the fastest, contact John Williams Navtec Expeditions in Moab, UT for the story of the actual fastest descent. -20hrs. Motorized. 2 Men. #RHIB boat. Destroyed a lower unit @ hr 12. Rebuilt it with help. Finished the run with time to spare. Some call it pioneering. Other's call it Styley. ;)
My dad and I rode the river that summer. From Lee's Ferry to Lava Falls. The outflow from Glen Canyon Dam was one of the most amazing things I've ever seen. We reached out and touched the top of that giant spire around mile ten. We were one of the last groups to go through Crystal Rapid that year. We lost our motor going through Lava falls. We rode on a Hatch raft with two pontoons. I was under 100 lbs. and two grown men had to weight me down so that I wouldn't be thrown from raft. Best Ever!
I was on a 72 hour trip with George Wendt, Doc Nicholson, Curt Smith, Neusom Holmes and others. We rowed to the back of Redwall cavern. Three rapids on the whole run. Loved this montage. Doc wrote it up really well in BQR
Thanks so much for posting this documentary. I've been a passenger tree times, al around 10,000-15,000 cfs. Can't imagine what you guys went through. Interesting to see Lava being run on the left and Bedrock basically disappear. Earned my stripes last month by swimming Waltenburg from the beginning.
Thanks for putting this together. I have a friend who was on a private trip durning this period. His words could not discribe what you photos have showen. I like the video in the begining.
That's the Crystal Rapids I remember. Hard right turn and a gigantic wave. I was a teenager at the time.
I love the music selection. Thanks for putting this together.
What is cfs? Maybe cubic feet per second. Great video. Thanks. LCR? btu?
Yes, cubic feet/second. Little Colorado River (was a lake)
Love your comments. And you were right - the four-foot boards were to keep water from overflowing the dam because overflow would have destroyed it. Basic hydro-dynamics 101.
I knew Kenton Grua, who rode the river at this level in a Dory! Using batteries and headlights at night.
Keep tabs on the paperback version of the Emerald Mile by Kevin Fedarko coming out this fall... it will add info about the fastest trip you note...
Emerald Mile is a scholarly work that should be a must-read for any enthusiast of the Colorado River and the Grand Canyon.
Before the dam was built, these high flows were regular occurrences on the Colorado. What do you think carved that massive canyon?
And caused millions in damage and many lost lives
OK... got in for now: Written by my friend Larry Stevens, P.H.D., most incredible naturalist in the Grand Canyon and old-timer boatman. That's why you can't google it. He lives in Flag.
I was wondering If I could use that song in one of my youtube videos, I am doing a canoe trip up in the Canadian Shield and this song would work really well. Thanks
The proof is that since 83, they've been repaired and re-channelled to prevent cavitation, and are expected to work properly next time.
In the land of the navajos...interesting report😉🙌
No worries, go ahead and use the song. Give Larry credit... I'm sure he'd love it. Let me know when you've posted so I can see. Cheers.
He said "It was understood from the outset that the spillways would probably suffer some erosion from cavitation if they were used at high flows for long periods". Spillways are made for spilling water when flows are dangerously high, and the reservoir is threatening to overtop. If you are building a spillway, which is only used during high flows that are threatening the dam, it seems ridiculous to claim that they knew beforehand that they would be damaged from cavitation at high flows.
"it seems ridiculous to claim that they knew beforehand that they would be damaged from cavitation at high flows."
What they had not yet figured out is how to deal with it. Since then they've arrived at a simple and non-obvious solution to break the suction.
@@thomasmaughan4798 This was a direct quote from them. If you’re interested in learning more about it you can read a great book called the Emerald Mile. It’s ostensibly about dory boatmen in the Grand Canyon, but it also has a deeply researched story about the dam and it’s construction. In that book it’s clear that like so many other government projects even including supplying our soldiers during war, when humans are involved and politicians dictate budgets and egos with power are making decisions, things get “ignored”. Such was the case here, where they were told repeatedly that the sandstone wasn’t hard enough, and that cavitation could be very destructive. You can see in the book that the then powers that be made the conscious decision to not address that. Consequences exist, whether people want to accept that or not.
The point is to illustrate that their "accurate" forecasts went from less than normal, to above normal by 12%, then by 31%, then by more than double.. not to mention that these updated "forecasts" were on the fly and rather late to do much about, and nearly cost the loss of the dam (by the chief's later off-the-cuff admission). None of this would have happened (and I wouldn't have had the experience of a lifetime!), had they not been greedy and left the dam nearly full before the spring floods.
11:30 he's wearing that cord out.That was a great run through there.
Awesome pics, they should really unleash the rivers a little more often if just to keep the silt moving downwards toward the sea.
wow!! thanks so much for this!
I surely wish I would have started getting interested in Colorado River Rafting back in the 70's. It seems that today it is just too expensive and I have lost so much physically (cancer and age). River rafting for me would have been something like confronting my fear of white water (maybe it is good to have some fear of white water)
He said that because they ran it at high flow rate (not high pressure, cavitation occurs because the water pressure DROPS below the vapor pressure of water) that the spillway was damaged. If you are implying they didn't build it for a high enough pressure, then you should change that in your video.
Do you think that could be Karen Byerley (Kazan) running that snout right at the end?
Sorry... which snout? The ones in Crystal? If so, nope... all Diamond motor boatmen doing their one or two trips a year on the oars. Otherwise let me know a time point.
@@Jeffe01 Yep. The one right at the end of the video. I know Karen ran during this event, but not sure what she was driving.
@@provinqa Ah.. nope sorry… all boys. I remember her as we passed along the river from time to time. Another great woman pioneer!
ahh, i think we've found our answer here. In the video, he is referring to a high flow rate through the spillway, which is an engineering limitation, not something they intended to happen. He wasn't talking about the flowrate of the river that built the water level up so high that the spillway had had to be run much longer than it was supposed to. Poor planning imo, I guess it was a matter of seeing the rapid fill-up coming.
Sorry, in Australia and very slow connections so can't view this older version for songs. Please re-comment with more info on that song you want, esp. lyrics. Perhaps I can help that way!
"Somewhere in the blue, you'll find me, Singing out my heartaches like a fool. Somewhere you'll find me, wishin' I could be anywhere with you" That is the chorus I think. I put the lyrics on Google, but can't find the song.
Fast Forward 38 years and it’s almost fully dried up... Mismanagement of ressources... Humanity’s complete failure
They new the spillways would work as long as the concrete was smooth as glass. Cause we all know that glass smooth concrete stays that way for at least 30 or 40 days after it is finished. I mean you cant blame them for expecting that concrete to be smooth 20 years after it was poured. HA HA One a more serious note these are two great videos of the Grand Flood.
Really! So you are an expert in concrete? The flanges were engineered. Do you even know what that means? NOT!
Do you even know anything about the Hydrologic paradox? Again, I think Not. Look it up on Google. I don't want to waste my time educating you.
What is the second to last song on this video?
"only a 112% of normal" That means it was 12% higher than it usually is, not 112% higher. So getting shocked by going from 12% above normal to 110% above normal would be unexpected.
Cubic Feet of water per Second… past any given point. It’s how they calculate river flows in the US of A.
There is another, updated copy of this vid on another video site that starts with a v, just in case you're wondering.
Give us a better hint on that website, PLEASE!
Jim Dye Sorry... very hard to do within this site, due to their oversight. They watch for links to other sites. You can find the link by going to my website onwardswaywardboatmen and email me with that request. I can then send it to you direct. Eezy-peezy.
Think this will happen again?
***** We can only hope... but next time, kablooey!
+Jeffe Aronson what is the name of the first song?..
Land Of the Navajo by Peter Rowan... ;-)
trying to find this version..
You won't.... a friend is singing it.. ;-)
anyway I could get this copy? this version is on point.
If you have a Mac and MusicBox, or another way to record audio from your PC, you can just record it... glad you like it. What's on here is all there is amigo. Sorry.
I'd like to know more about the singers, they came up with some cool lyrics.
See credits at end of part 2... ;-)
Bmac n
You gave water to the delta last year and in June 2015 you are getting your reward. The universal law of supply ensures those who give are never impoverished. More releases to the delta !!! More water for everyone.
Holding back only impoverishes all of us and accumulates a dangerous poverty for those who are greedy or act in fear. Give. Give. Give !!
2nd fastest....btw. For the story of the fastest, contact John Williams Navtec Expeditions in Moab, UT for the story of the actual fastest descent. -20hrs. Motorized. 2 Men. #RHIB boat. Destroyed a lower unit @ hr 12. Rebuilt it with help. Finished the run with time to spare. Some call it pioneering. Other's call it Styley. ;)
Motors don't count...
Uh, huh. Unless you hate Glen Canyon Damn... in which case...
its dam...not damn
5**************