Latter-day Saint here. If the Church were false, I would want to know. I can relate to what he is saying that it is scary to shine a light on your beliefs and really examine them. I’ve done a deep dive into my faith and have come to opposite conclusion of Isaac. I found abundant evidence that supported the veracity of my faith. I’m glad that he appears to be in a good place and found a new home. Thanks for sharing that story of Elder Christofferson. I got to meet him once and he, and the other Church leaders I’ve met, are genuinely good people.
Sealings are different than marriages. Joseph was sealed to many people that he did not treat as traditional marriages that involved intimacy. The multiple first vision arguments are much-ado-about-nothing. I’ve read all the first vision accounts and don’t see what all the fuss is about. Do you tell a story the exact same way all the time, or do you include different details according to who you are talking to? The various accounts are fairly consistent all things considered. The various details lend credibility to what happened. The translations I find to be one of the most compelling evidences that Joseph really was a prophet. He got way too many things right about the ancient world that nobody in his day could have known. Furthermore, you focus solely on perceived problems with the Church, but ignore many of the better evidences of the Church. I have never seen a critic honestly contend with the best arguments supporting the veracity of the Church. They just stick with the same old criticisms and rarely try and answer positive evidences. To truly ascertain the truth of something, you have to consider all the evidence in its totality and weigh it out rather than just focusing on your critical evidence.
@@phillipcook3430 Do you have daughters and/or a wife? If Russell Nelson came to them first (because that's what Smith did) to begin the coercion process- and then told you he was going to marry them because an angel with a flaming sword would kill him if he didn't-- what would you do? Because as a married woman with 2 beautiful daughters-- I'd ask him if I could watch when the angel gets him. And then kick him out. Being as old as he is, I'd just get a RO, but if it were Smith, I'd deck him. Legitimately. When I found out about Smith's heretical antics, I was a YW pres. Looking at all of my girls (including my daughters, who were there)- that Sunday filled my heart with so much outrage and grief. My husband was equally disgusted. There's NO excuse. Kinda crazy how every cult leader at some point says that God told him he needs to acquire himself a bunch of women.
If the church fell into apostasy after the death of the last apostle (aprx. in 100AD) then why do you trust the bible which was compiled, translated and canonized by an apostatized church?
I was raised Catholic but it wasn't something we took seriously. Mostly did for grandma. Years later when I had reached out to the Catholic Church and got nothing back I met the Mormon missionaries. I joined the church and did the whole thing. Years later I lost my faith in anything supernatural. I tried to get my faith back in Mormonism but struggled to see the church as anything more than a bunch of really good people running a church the way they would run a business. I have since returned to attending Mass but I haven't had any white light moment. It all makes sense intellectually though. I still struggle to make sense of why the Mormons are such good people when they have some crazy origins. Its also disappointing to me that my family didn't follow the Catholic faith fully because it has everything I found with the Mormons but they just didn't live it.
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. I hope you receive the light you are looking for. Respectfully, perhaps consider: by their fruits ye shall know them? Maybe the origins aren't any stranger than the stories of Noah, Moses, Abraham, or Peter?
Hehe, the truth is, you'll find crazy origins of all faiths, cultures, religions, and governments. Bad and good. At this point in my life, I almost completely rule that stuff out. People like to attack Mormons for polygamy, yet polygamy exists in the Old Testament. People like to attack Catholics for medieval times and paying of tithes for remission of sins (fair enough), but the Calvinist and catholic movements slaughtered each other for years. There's so much dark history everywhere you go. The truth is, there still will be moving forward into the future. But there's much good. I like to look at the day to day lives of the people, how they conduct themselves, then look at the doctrines and teachings and organization itself. And somewhere, between that big conglamorate, you seem to gleem some truth, or the closest to it.
@@Swatta637 no that's the incorrect way to view things. It's very factual that the Catholic church is the church and any non Catholic denomination are pretenders.
Encourage you to dig into the Bible. Don’t ever resist challenging everything against the Scriptures. No denomination has it all together. The body of Christ is made up of many members.
God has called you back to the Church for a reason and you are answering that call. Pray for your family. When the time comes, you may be that anchor that brings them back home. I was the first of my family to take the Catholic faith seriously and it was an amazing experience to watch my mother say in her 70s... "It really is all true, isn't it?" She had been raised Catholic all her life but never really believed until the last years of her life. I was glad to have helped bridge that gap so she could meet the Lord. It's lonely being the first and bridging the gap for your family. But I promise you, there is nothing compared to the graces God gives you to be the one at the gap.
As an ex-mormon and Catholic, I can confirm the biggest "certain set of issues" facing young people has been the translation process of the Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham entirely, and Joseph Smith's sexual sin in adultery, specifically polygamy and polyandry.
@@irenemccann7032 Why is so difficult for people to understand that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ alone. Even Peter said it; Acts 4:12 12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Why the pope ? Why Joseph smith and his false apostles, why Muhammad? Why Buddha ? Why can’t people understand that God made only one REAL WAY to heaven? This way has been prophesied all over the Bible from generations to generations. And is only through he’s only Son Jesus and no one else..
To be an Apostle called by and lived with YESHUA Hebrews 1:6 It doesn't matter what LDS say but for leading to a Hell of a Future? WARNING MATTHEW 18:1 - 7
Truth is truth but people have this tendency to moralize about it to extremes. The moralizations and judgements people make are often too negative to build anything and too often tear down any good that has been built from imperfection.
Ex-Mormon here. They wouldn't be leaders if they weren't charismatic. They're a board of directors of a corporation that sells religiosity. I think some of them might be nice, but they're business men first.
Has the Pope read the Book of Mormon ? Can we just Add it in to the rest of the Catholoc Bible & print it worldwide ? I don't see why churches are still split off from the Mother Church at Vatican City ?
11 місяців тому+3
Well, The Catholic Bible is pretty set on it's Cannon, The Book of Mormon would be an extremely late addition, and would have little to none correlation to the Canon. Also, pretty sure that the Mormon Leaders would be really upset by the Catholic taking their sheep and also their monetary charity. One does not simply strap a new book to the Catholic Canon. Also haven't read it, it surely is going to have something that is against Catholic Beliefs. So, the Catholic Church has no reason to mass produce and distribute that. Surely a Mormon faithfull would like very much to simply make a whole church convert to their faith by the printing of a book. They are divided because each one of them wants to Rule, and be respected and revered and also each one of them have an Argument as to why they are the leader, and why what they say is righter than the others. And sure, Centuries of disagreement and further development and double-downs on whatever they were accused of pushed them further apart. Oh yeah and also the disagreement of doctrine and disbelief in what the others belive, and most essential stuff like that.
Add the Quaran in there too... Catholic Means Universal, so might as well add in Mormon and Islam and shape them into conforming Catholic beliefs. Do remember book of Amos, book of Giants... very entertaining reads & a favorite of all the Ancient Aliens Ancient Astronauts believers - those naughty Nephilim getting into trouble polluting YHWH's new planet Earth project with their corrupted seed... Then YHWH has to come along behind them and Flood the Earth to destroy all the wicked monstrosities... those animal headed drawings in Egypt = Real Creatures, not imagined, not head masks, actual bird headed and dog headed alien hybrid creatures ! The Sphinx = once an actual Ruler of Egypt, an actual lion person alive and real ! @
Adding the Book of Mormon to the Bible is like adding the Sequel Trilogy of Star Wars to the original canon. Not only can you tell it doesn't have the same author and its historical inaccuracies, but the Book of Mormon also completely drops the ball on the main themes of the Bible itself. Joseph Smith is to religious figures what Rian Johnson is to Star Wars directors.
Because Mormons don't actually believe in God? They don't believe in the Holy Trinity God at all and the Jesus they claim to follow, they don't believe is Fully God. Mormon baptisms are not even valid, though other Christian baptisms in the correct form are. Nothing about LDS is real. Though there are many living and faithful LDS, who I pray come home to know the Real, One, True God
I think a better analogy is, adding the book of Mormon to the Bible would be like adding Star wars to Lord of the rings or willow... Honestly tho, I'm confused to the star wars reference?? Would you please explain the book of Mormon connection to star wars
Latter-day Saint here. If the Church were false, I would want to know. I can relate to what he is saying that it is scary to shine a light on your beliefs and really examine them. I’ve done a deep dive into my faith and have come to opposite conclusion of Isaac. I found abundant evidence that supported the veracity of my faith. I’m glad that he appears to be in a good place and found a new home. Thanks for sharing that story of Elder Christofferson. I got to meet him once and he, and the other Church leaders I’ve met, are genuinely good people.
How did you resolve that JS married teen girls and already married women? Or the multiple "first vision" accounts, and all of the translation issues?
Sealings are different than marriages. Joseph was sealed to many people that he did not treat as traditional marriages that involved intimacy.
The multiple first vision arguments are much-ado-about-nothing. I’ve read all the first vision accounts and don’t see what all the fuss is about. Do you tell a story the exact same way all the time, or do you include different details according to who you are talking to? The various accounts are fairly consistent all things considered. The various details lend credibility to what happened.
The translations I find to be one of the most compelling evidences that Joseph really was a prophet. He got way too many things right about the ancient world that nobody in his day could have known.
Furthermore, you focus solely on perceived problems with the Church, but ignore many of the better evidences of the Church. I have never seen a critic honestly contend with the best arguments supporting the veracity of the Church. They just stick with the same old criticisms and rarely try and answer positive evidences. To truly ascertain the truth of something, you have to consider all the evidence in its totality and weigh it out rather than just focusing on your critical evidence.
@@AR-sz5lmread Don Bradley’s work. It’s not a simple answer.
@@phillipcook3430 Do you have daughters and/or a wife? If Russell Nelson came to them first (because that's what Smith did) to begin the coercion process- and then told you he was going to marry them because an angel with a flaming sword would kill him if he didn't-- what would you do? Because as a married woman with 2 beautiful daughters-- I'd ask him if I could watch when the angel gets him. And then kick him out. Being as old as he is, I'd just get a RO, but if it were Smith, I'd deck him. Legitimately. When I found out about Smith's heretical antics, I was a YW pres. Looking at all of my girls (including my daughters, who were there)- that Sunday filled my heart with so much outrage and grief.
My husband was equally disgusted.
There's NO excuse.
Kinda crazy how every cult leader at some point says that God told him he needs to acquire himself a bunch of women.
If the church fell into apostasy after the death of the last apostle (aprx. in 100AD) then why do you trust the bible which was compiled, translated and canonized by an apostatized church?
I was raised Catholic but it wasn't something we took seriously. Mostly did for grandma. Years later when I had reached out to the Catholic Church and got nothing back I met the Mormon missionaries. I joined the church and did the whole thing. Years later I lost my faith in anything supernatural. I tried to get my faith back in Mormonism but struggled to see the church as anything more than a bunch of really good people running a church the way they would run a business. I have since returned to attending Mass but I haven't had any white light moment. It all makes sense intellectually though. I still struggle to make sense of why the Mormons are such good people when they have some crazy origins. Its also disappointing to me that my family didn't follow the Catholic faith fully because it has everything I found with the Mormons but they just didn't live it.
I'm sorry to hear about your struggles. I hope you receive the light you are looking for.
Respectfully, perhaps consider: by their fruits ye shall know them? Maybe the origins aren't any stranger than the stories of Noah, Moses, Abraham, or Peter?
Hehe, the truth is, you'll find crazy origins of all faiths, cultures, religions, and governments. Bad and good. At this point in my life, I almost completely rule that stuff out.
People like to attack Mormons for polygamy, yet polygamy exists in the Old Testament. People like to attack Catholics for medieval times and paying of tithes for remission of sins (fair enough), but the Calvinist and catholic movements slaughtered each other for years. There's so much dark history everywhere you go. The truth is, there still will be moving forward into the future. But there's much good.
I like to look at the day to day lives of the people, how they conduct themselves, then look at the doctrines and teachings and organization itself. And somewhere, between that big conglamorate, you seem to gleem some truth, or the closest to it.
@@Swatta637 no that's the incorrect way to view things. It's very factual that the Catholic church is the church and any non Catholic denomination are pretenders.
Encourage you to dig into the Bible. Don’t ever resist challenging everything against the Scriptures. No denomination has it all together. The body of Christ is made up of many members.
God has called you back to the Church for a reason and you are answering that call. Pray for your family. When the time comes, you may be that anchor that brings them back home. I was the first of my family to take the Catholic faith seriously and it was an amazing experience to watch my mother say in her 70s... "It really is all true, isn't it?" She had been raised Catholic all her life but never really believed until the last years of her life. I was glad to have helped bridge that gap so she could meet the Lord.
It's lonely being the first and bridging the gap for your family. But I promise you, there is nothing compared to the graces God gives you to be the one at the gap.
I’m a Latter Day Saint, thanks for sharing that cool story about elder christofferson
As an ex-mormon and Catholic, I can confirm the biggest "certain set of issues" facing young people has been the translation process of the Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham entirely, and Joseph Smith's sexual sin in adultery, specifically polygamy and polyandry.
As an exmormon and ex-neighbor of Todd Christopherson, I love this.
Did you have many interactions with Todd? Like, how was he as a person?
I’ll stick to the catholic faith, which Jesus Christ left to us through St Peter thank you
I just can't, the catholic church's history, both recent and ancient has too much darkness for my taste
@@irenemccann7032 Why is so difficult for people to understand that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ alone.
Even Peter said it;
Acts 4:12
12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
Why the pope ? Why Joseph smith and his false apostles, why Muhammad? Why Buddha ?
Why can’t people understand that God made only one REAL WAY to heaven?
This way has been prophesied all over the Bible from generations to generations.
And is only through he’s only Son Jesus and no one else..
Thanks.
super odd, could you guys one day talk about Zechariah 5? and give what you think it may be talking about?
Just for starters they call THEMSELVES Saints as a member of the LDS
To be an Apostle called by and lived with YESHUA Hebrews 1:6 It doesn't matter what LDS say but for leading to a Hell of a Future? WARNING MATTHEW 18:1 - 7
Truth is truth but people have this tendency to moralize about it to extremes. The moralizations and judgements people make are often too negative to build anything and too often tear down any good that has been built from imperfection.
Ex-Mormon here. They wouldn't be leaders if they weren't charismatic. They're a board of directors of a corporation that sells religiosity.
I think some of them might be nice, but they're business men first.
Forget it
Has the Pope read the Book of Mormon ? Can we just Add it in to the rest of the Catholoc Bible & print it worldwide ?
I don't see why churches are still split off from the Mother Church at Vatican City ?
Well, The Catholic Bible is pretty set on it's Cannon, The Book of Mormon would be an extremely late addition, and would have little to none correlation to the Canon. Also, pretty sure that the Mormon Leaders would be really upset by the Catholic taking their sheep and also their monetary charity. One does not simply strap a new book to the Catholic Canon. Also haven't read it, it surely is going to have something that is against Catholic Beliefs. So, the Catholic Church has no reason to mass produce and distribute that.
Surely a Mormon faithfull would like very much to simply make a whole church convert to their faith by the printing of a book.
They are divided because each one of them wants to Rule, and be respected and revered and also each one of them have an Argument as to why they are the leader, and why what they say is righter than the others. And sure, Centuries of disagreement and further development and double-downs on whatever they were accused of pushed them further apart. Oh yeah and also the disagreement of doctrine and disbelief in what the others belive, and most essential stuff like that.
Add the Quaran in there too...
Catholic Means Universal, so might as well add in Mormon and Islam and shape them into conforming Catholic beliefs. Do remember book of Amos, book of Giants... very entertaining reads & a favorite of all the Ancient Aliens Ancient Astronauts believers - those naughty Nephilim getting into trouble polluting YHWH's new planet Earth project with their corrupted seed... Then YHWH has to come along behind them and Flood the Earth to destroy all the wicked monstrosities... those animal headed drawings in Egypt = Real Creatures, not imagined, not head masks, actual bird headed and dog headed alien hybrid creatures ! The Sphinx = once an actual Ruler of Egypt, an actual lion person alive and real ! @
Adding the Book of Mormon to the Bible is like adding the Sequel Trilogy of Star Wars to the original canon. Not only can you tell it doesn't have the same author and its historical inaccuracies, but the Book of Mormon also completely drops the ball on the main themes of the Bible itself.
Joseph Smith is to religious figures what Rian Johnson is to Star Wars directors.
Because Mormons don't actually believe in God? They don't believe in the Holy Trinity God at all and the Jesus they claim to follow, they don't believe is Fully God. Mormon baptisms are not even valid, though other Christian baptisms in the correct form are. Nothing about LDS is real. Though there are many living and faithful LDS, who I pray come home to know the Real, One, True God
I think a better analogy is, adding the book of Mormon to the Bible would be like adding Star wars to Lord of the rings or willow...
Honestly tho, I'm confused to the star wars reference?? Would you please explain the book of Mormon connection to star wars