Americans are getting scammed
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- Опубліковано 21 кві 2024
- Asmongold Clips / Asmongold Reacts To: Rep. Michael Waltz questioning Air Force officials about the exorbitant costs spent by the military
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You don't need a 'knowledgeable buyer' to recognise that a bag of bushings for $90k is a ridiculous price. You just need people who aren't corrupt as fuck.
Blame the businesses that sell this to the government. They know the can take advantage of the government. Thats how business is right now.
Black budget comes from this savvy "Black Magic" laundering. Stay asleep
@@mystraunt2705 but who else is their comeptition?
Lol nice copy pasta from “Forbes Breaking News” latest video about this topic.
@@jeffrey2004 I'd argue it's a rather logical conclusion most people would arive at, even in the case that it wasn't a copy pasta. Which I take your word for right now, not that it matterrs either way.
blizzard: 800% value!
military industrial complex: hold my beer
Clash Royale: hold my keg
🤣🤣
I legit think Asmongold has stocks in both. the video gamer.. oh have you ever heard of Destiny.. a woman's name? That is your life now..
How is Miskif's sister doing?
D4BAD
Old story, been that way for as long as I can recall. Back in the 80's it was $400 dollars for a hammer, and $800 for a toilet seat. The flaw is that each branch gets a budget for a year. If they don't spend that budget, it gets reduced to what they actually spent, so they "spend that money" each year to make sure the budget stays as high as it can go.
Why can’t they just buy more assets instead of spending on assets at an absurd cost? It seems inefficient. I assume it’s because someone in the government is benefiting from selling these expensive items?
@@nionex2796 few reasons
One is that the additonal price tag on items is a easy thing to justify, its just what they were charged (supposedly), and then the excess cash can go towards things that are needed but are difficult to justify, like maybe a number of chairs which are designed to help people with back injuries (cant work with a back injury by protocol, but it really only effects heavy loads and strenuous activity, not a lot of fine work, so you can actually work with some considerations, but you want a proper chair for it) or just reorders of particular parts because a specification was slightly wrong.
Another is that if they order excess items, they have to store all them somewhere, and thats an almighty pain.
@@nionex2796 as I understand it, and anyone who has worked in the government or military, feel free to chime in and correct me, they don't actually cost that much. They simply put that price on the invoice so as to keep the budget they were given.
@@PapaJohn1972 So basically they are committing fraud by overstating its costs? Still doesn’t make sense that they could’ve simply bought more assets rather than just falsifying information. Perhaps it isn’t as simple as it seems though.
@@nionex2796Well it makes sense for the corrupt politicians who fill their pockets with that budget.
I've heard the argument that a lot of the USA's "black budget" items that don't get reported are covered up with stupidly high prices for things like this, however it also leaves a lot of room for corruption.
There is no cure for corruption, letting some $$ slip is a million times better than what they do in russia or china.
You also have to understand that black. Simply means criminal shit that the average person would get 25-life or the death penalty for.
You mean like the sworn testimony from last year saying IRAD is leaking funds?
By some rule of thumb, the black project would get 10k and the otter 80k would go to someone's pocket
Well you see, it’s $100 for the bag, and $89,900 for everyone’s pockets who signed off on the budget.
Without the 89,900$ payoff, the 100$ bag would never have been approved on the budget. 100$ too expensive.
It probably has to go through many inspections and tests, so extra price would be expected, but yeah I wasn't expecting that.
It's not in a "pocket" it's put into special programs that aren't released to the public. But, it's still wrong.
I bet it cost $2 on Temu.
just like third world countries gov "we have big budget 49.99% go for you 49.99% go for me and the rest for public"
Saying that a bag of bushings is worth more than 2 years of work as a public school teacher is extremely wild. I’m not a big fan of the government.
30 on 30
No ones stopping you
@@jonathanh.2038 im not a big fan of the government
30 30 30
wouldn't it be the contractors who are over charging the DoD cuz they know they'll pay for it regardless of price?
As someone getting into government contracting, it is a complete mess. Information and contracts are spread across a multitude of websites with different formats, and many websites are out of date, or defunct. For someone that understands the systems, it would be easy to divert huge sums of money to BS purchases. I would actually be surprised if the government wasn't paying stupid prices for random crap.
oh buddy look up how much random pork they shove into bills.
the corruption in government is absolutely insane. and the cpi seems complete bullshit too judging by the amounts of money government officials steal from the taxpayer in western countries.
Overspent and overbought but DoD is oblivious to all of it since nobody cares. We have pallets of crap just sitting in supply (some for over a decade) that will never get used and is already outdated.
It isn’t random, it’s intentional. They account for corruption in budgets at this point.
Some context I found:
You cannot by a bag of bushings for “any jet turbine engine.” for $100.00 anywhere at a retail store. The FAA would fine the store and manufacture into oblivion for selling uncertified aircraft parts in a heart beat. So the question here would be how much more do the bushings cost over the cost of the same bushings for a like civilian aircraft. That question was not asked.
Mil-spec. The specification for a part on most military equipment are often different from those of a commercial aircraft. The requirements needed to power a jet engine are very different from those needed in a commercial aircraft. A bushing in the engine of an aircraft that can move at more than mach one is different from an from one that won’t. The expense of getting to this point, the certification, the tooling, and ramping up a production would likely not be worth the money the competitor would have to spend.
The question by Mike Waltz is a classic “gotta” question to begin with. Unless he knew that particular question was going to be asked, Secretary Kendall won’t have a clue about a specific part to start with. Why should he?
More:
Those figures are generated by the cost to pay all the people in the supply chain.. Because of the amount of paperwork, number of people involved in the purchasing process, and the time involved for the part selection, the requisition forms, approval of the requisition, submitting the requisition to multiple vendors for bids, shipping, receiving, transport from the government depot to the location where it's needed, blah blah blah..
All of those costs add up.. That analogy is used to show the inefficiency of a bureaucracy..
It seems like it’s more beneficial for the government to make their own parts than rather making a special orders from vendors at a high cost. However, It would also be costly to maintain equipment and utilities for production, so I’m not sure if that would be a solution. All I can say is that I agree it seems inefficient with all the numerous processes and paperwork for parts.
So it's a monopoly
while that is great and all that there's more to the story, it's still clearly completely unsustainable.
@WinterSina, you can always try to get all those licenses and sell it at a price of 45,000 per bag, but will it be profitable?
It still sounds like a super inflated price, though.
"He should've asked how much you THINK they should pay" - that's actually a great question lol
And after he refused to answer that ask if $1000 seems reasonable.
The sad thing is, this was the lowest bidder for those bushings.
yes about the smatest said in this video lol
@@PetrifEye WHOS BIDDING
considering how american "debates" are just asking series of "gotcha" questions nowadays, this would indeed be a great question
Every person that approved these contracts should be in jail and forced to pay back the money they stole.
And who exactly would put them in jail? They're all in on it.
Damn you gotta be such an innocent and soft individual who thinks women shit flowers and clouds are cotton candy when you think there is no corruption in the government and anyone actually would be held accountable... lmao...
It’s their Free Will
if they do that then dont be suprised when the price of food go up by 200 times the next day
@@dynamicflashy The house always wins.
As a mechatronics tech and a machinist, i can tell you right here and right now, a baggie of bushings should never, not ever cost that much... If you made them out of most exotic plastics or powder metal, they would never reach that price... Maybe 10k, maybe even 20k for certain powder metallurgy, but a bushing like this is most likely a high temp. alloy that has minimal temp-size delta, and ultimately, a bushing like that, for a jet engine is not a bearing component, not in a functional system, just like how a journal bearing is not a bearing in a car, it has to sustain the environment, but something else does the actual bearing function... It`s the film of fluid, be it oil, be it air, be it fuel that is forced at pressure between that bushing and the shaft that rides in it, that provides a bearing layer, same as a dentist`s grinder... Even if these were diamond lathe turned/bored out of inconel, they would still not go for more than 20k$ a baggie... Not if you aren`t being ripped off like a dog...
Sure, if you ask me to make you a baggie of these in inconel, i will charge you 20k with no issues, it`s a bitch to set up the machines to make them, that is the only setup that that machine has for however long you are going to be making these, you need special tooling, all the other stuff, but on an industrial level how these are made - there isn`t a shop that is losing a machine to specially set up a single product for a limited run of a single baggie... The shops that make these make these and like 10 other components, and every machine that is bought is bought to run literally one setup or maybe a few over the whole lifetime of the machine... One machine or dozens of them - that make these bushes all day long, all night long, with automatic stock feeders, automatic toolchanges, specialized lubricant/coolant, literally everything is set up to make these, and those machines churn out literally hundreds of thousands of these in a 24hour cycle in a dedicated, certified shop... At that rate, a baggie is the raw material price, shipping, taxes, all other basic govt. theft and maybe additional 40% of price per piece is the actual work that resulted in that specific bushing if the work is really complex and involves a lot of consumables, but even then, you aren`t paying for work, you are paying for consumables that allow for the work to be done in the first place...
I`m almost always against regulations and govt. interventions, as they are mostly just theft or robbery, depending on how forceful the application thereof, but this shit needs some proper regulations and inspections... 90k for a baggie of not drugs is unacceptable... If i knew the material, i could vouch for some of the price, there are really monstrously expensive materials, but i somehow doubt that these are more exotic than specialized bronze or inconel or something similar, which while costly, in an equivalent solid rod of mass of this baggie+40%(lost material in parting operations - at absolutely worst rates) would probably not exceed 1.2k$ at wildest expectations... I`m assuming that this is special bronze, but i`m rating the price for inconel solid rod of 16mm, which is thicker than these appear to be, but you know, od. work to fit the bores... 16mmx750mm inco solid rod is around 900euros, say 1000$... If each of these is 20mm long, or what is that, 8/10 of an inch length, you can make with 40% parting losses - around 22 of these, and that baggie doesn`t look like it holds more than 20 pieces... and keep in mind that 40% parting losses are a machinist crime to put it that way, a literal waste of material, you should have around 1mm or 40 thou loss at every parting operation, which in this case would be around 5% losses and would net you 35 bushes instead if my mental math checks out... So 1000$ raw material for 35 bushes, plus taxes, shipping, work hours, consumables and all the other shit with inconel as material, would not place this baggie above 1000$ if there is 20 bushes in the baggie... Maybe 1.5k$ just for some extra margin of error... And that is using the top grade inconel(jet turbine material), and i suspect it`s bronze, which lowers that price by no less than 30% at minimum...
"It`s the film of fluid, be it oil, be it air, be it fuel that is forced at pressure between that bushing and the shaft that rides in it, that provides a bearing layer, same as a dentist`s grinder... Even if these were diamond lathe turned/bored out of inconel, they would still not go for more than 20k$ a baggie... Not if you aren`t being ripped off like a dog... "
And the thickness of that layer of oil must be precisely controlled, right?
What happens if the gap is too big? The oil pressure drops too much and you get catastrophic failure, right?
What happens if the gap is too small? The surfaces rub on each other and overheat and you get catastrophic failure, right?
If you guarantee that all the bushings are +/- 0.0005", and it turns out they didn't actually fit that spec, and there's a catastrophic engine failure as a result, guess what happens to you? That's right, you go to prison for defrauding the government.
So you make damn sure everything you sell meets that spec.
Then consider that these aren't bushings you can sell to just anyone. No one else needs them. They're application-specific, and low production volume. You can't spread the cost of your tooling change across a million units.
And you have to pay for testing and certification of those parts. To keep your ass out of prison.
@@dafunkmonster Except that these are the same ones used in all the other jet turbines, not some mil-spec racket bespoke part, as mentioned in the video. Except that the margin for error isn't that small, otherwise these vehicles couldn't function at more than one altitude, let alone for military applications. Except that there is basically no justification for this expense unless you are a corrupt Boeing suit that kills whistleblowers, or an embezzling bureaucrat that has to justify his own job and existence.
You're fucking clueless.
LOL turning bushings that'd be insane
@@elmohead How else do you think bushings are made?
ALL MILITARY SERVICES do this. This is coming FROM a service member that has WORKED on aircraft. the parts are expensive, and cheaply made. this scam has BEEN happening for a very long time
I'm a maintainer in the Air Force. Many of the things we order are just like this. I ordered paper warning tags for $70 each. Literally just labeled paper and string I can make myself, but they won't allow. So much fraud, waste, and abuse situations and nothing changes
it's on you to report that stuff.
@retard1582 Report it to whom? The higher-ups whose pay increases with their budget? The whole government is a scam, they are all incentivized to waste as much as possible so they can say they went over budget and need more funding for the next year. It never ends because this is the actual purpose of the system and the way it is structured.
@@retard1582Report to who? The reason this stuff is so expensive is because the people at the top are corrupt.
@@retard1582 Lol thinking a Enlisted Airmen most likely an E1-E5 has to "report" the purchasing cost of items. Why would he need to "report" it? Do you think they are unaware of how much they spend on it?
@retard1582 you don't get it. Command literally doesn't care and nor does the CO. I remember paying $50 for a pack of tags. Shit was insane.
It's all about funneling tax payer money to private corporations.
Lobbying a politician has the highest ROI in the world.
Look how many congrescritters *became* millionairs while in office.
Especially when you hear how cheaply those politicians sell us out for. For the "cost" of that bag of bushings, you could buy more than a few politicians to sign whatever you want.
At this point, minimizing your tax liability is a civic duty
@Vandil_the_Rogue That's mine and my friends plan, going to buy land together and start a food forest.
They don't need taxpayer money. Never did. People in charge are not good guys, full stop.
This is pretty common although thats some AAA bushings right there. I work for the state and our secretary once showed me where she HAS TO order random stuff for the team. I remember a ~4€ can of wet wipes was 76€ for the cheapest one available on the list...
This truly is a 90000% value proposition.
For the seller, not the buyer.
Worked in an Army electronic mantainence shop, can confirm.
Military contracts are fucking insane. The corruption and lobbying to keep exclusive rights as suppliers for military equipment is fucking insane.
Aren't there tons of suppliers that are certified that the military can shop around for?
I was avionics in the Navy. We had contracts with Raytheon so if a 10 cent capacitor went out on a part, they'd get a refurbished part and pay a million for it. I'm not even exaggerating.
@@justinland1208 What happens to the damaged part? Don't those get turned in, repaired, and refurbished? It should just be a 1 for 1 swap with only a convenience fee.
In the Army I lost the power cable for my STT (satellite transportable terminal). I went to the General Dynamics office on post to see what a replacement would cost. It was a $5500 part. I went to an electronics supply store off-base and the same cable costed a little over $100. I bought it and it worked great.
@@svenjorgensen5 That's a month's salary for a lost cable. The Army is always getting angry at their troops for losing expensive items, making them liable for losses. Enough to make unlucky Joes go into indentured servitude, and their decision to join the military not worth it at all. Maybe they should start getting angry at the people who jack up the prices unnecessarily.
Reminder that this has been going on for decades under all administrations and both parties.
Reminder that Rumsfeld called for an audit of all of this mess and found over a Trillion missing 1 month I believe before 9/11, and then nobody wanted to talk about it again.
But watch both sides will blame one another like kids 😂😂
@@jodycwilliams$2.3 trillion and the records of said money coincidentally was right where the Pentagon was hit the following day 🤷♂️
I'm glad someone said this. Both parties are complicit in this. Sometimes people also go on about Socialism vs capitalism and the truth is this sort of corruption happens under both these financial ideologies as well. Although if there was honest competition and the buyer wasn't being lobbied to make a bad decision, you'd see prices drop dramatically.
Reason why they keep inciting wars, need to keep that scam going
I talked to a guy who used to work in logistics or something for the military, and they would get mad at him if he found cost effective ways to do stuff. Because if you don't spend all your money, won't have an excuse to ask for more next time. It is a straight up scam.
I worked as a contractor at Nellis AFB for a few years. I totally did not witness KC130 mid air fueling tankers fly sorties to dump tens of thousands of gallons of aviation fuel into the Pacific Ocean towards the end of every fiscal year so they could justify the budget for next year. That never happened multiple times. I never saw it, dont ask.
Congress required the Pentagon to pass an annual audit in 1990, they did not attempt until 2018 and have fail six straight audits since then.
Pretty sure we revolted for less egregious reasons.
@@GhostLink92 We revolted for any taxes at all. Modern Americans are complete cowards compared to the colonials.
They just failed one and I didn't see a thing about it anywhere. It's basically just common knowledge and accepted at this point.
9/10/2001 Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense at the time, held a press conference announcing that they couldn't account for over 2 trillion dollars.
And then the next day..."some people" did some things.
@@corvuslightPeople just don't care. They can't accept that their government is malicious and or incompetent because it would shatter their illusion of security. They choose to remain ignorant and comfortable.
Just wait till you hear about hospitals and the cost of their supplies.
Indeed, health insurance is a scam like all other insurance and government projects. Give them the money and just trust them they are going to spend it wisely
That's for the hospital to get a loss in financial statements and write off the tax. The one getting fucked is IRS not taxpayers. It's a little different but still broken system nonetheless.
Fake news, American healthcare is affordable. Now if you'll excuse me, i owe the hospital 50 dollars for this band aid i just recieved.
@@KindaGhostyyyeah, it used to be $60 per bandage. $50 sounds like a big-win situation
@@hilihkintil6789 thats cap
Mans holding the remainder of my mortgage in his hand. Just to put that into perspective.
Oh, ya, that's been an issue for decades. I worked on aircraft for the army, some of those materials are laughably expensive.
If you make them literally from gold, they will be cheaper.
The material they are made of might very well be more expensive per pound, sadly the person getting mad about the cost doesn't provide any context as to what part it is. Or what the manufacturing process for it actually entails.
so is a 100GB SSD in a macbook btw
Its not what they are made of - its the standards they have to get certified to. I wouldn't be surprised if they spent $5M-$10M getting that component certified under all the various ICAO/FAA/Milspec designators required before the part could be purchased.
@@johnheifner5813 And? The reward would be the contract, not an absurd price tag.
@@jimmysthoughts8571 As someone who works in this field let me educate you on the military procurement of aviation components.
1.) Military sets milspec certification standards on part based on souped up FAA/ICAO standards for the same part.
2.) Military puts out bid for part guaranteeing X quantity of purchases.
3.) Mfgs decide how much it will cost to machine, certify, warranty, and handle the lifetime liability of the part. Then they bid it.
4.) The contract is awarded to the lowest bidder - in this case it was $90,000 per bag.
Which part are you mad about exactly?
Independence Day talked about this almost 25 years ago.
President Thomas Whitmore (Talking about Area 51): I don't understand, where does all this come from? How do you get funding for something like this?
Julius Levinson : You don't actually think they spend $20,000 on a hammer, $30,000 on a toilet seat, do you?
Except the money goes to the procurement company.
Its all money laundering
Hardly money laundering, the government accepts "campaign money" from these military suppliers and then just pays them back with tax money when they get into office. It is more lobbying than laundering @@stronensycharte64
It's a $100 bag of bushings they say it's 90k so they can move $89900 into black budget programs.
@@XDin4D No the companies that sell this shit are just making a fuckton of profit on the tax payers backs.
if you watch the entire video its much worse. Not only are they massively overpaying for the high quality bushings, they are using the high quality bushings in situations where the regular cheap ones are acceptable. yeah, sure, your $700 million stealth bomber may need expensive parts but you don't need to reuse the same expensive parts for a standard cargo plane.
I work in aerospace machining.
It's that expensive because we need to follow a bunch of heinous tolerances and quality control guidelines.
You think that bag is expensive? One part in a batch of 10,000 pieces that is bad for some reason or another WILL CAUSE THE ENTIRE 10,000 PIECES TO BE SCRAPPED.
I understand. But 90k though ?
If you think thats bad,
For some equipment, the military are not allowed to repair themselves, because they doesn't have the "right" to fix it.
So they have to fly that corpo fixer to wherever that equipment is and let them fix it instead of asking army engineers to do so.
I wonder how that gonna work during actual wartime.
It's not. They will throw anyone with a tiny bit of experience at it and tell em to get it done
while that is technically true, and considering you know this then you should also know that in practice the people that could have the "right" (authorization) to fix the equipment would be some dumbass 20 year old grunts basically still training in a maintenance shop that you would have to trust with a tens of thousands dollars worth of equipment and not fuck it up. Instead of just sending it back to the factory it came out of and getting a brand new replacement.
Same happens in germany. It is a huge problem because the mechanics lack training as a result on top of being a scam. At least after decades of neglect there is now some awakening. only took a war almost right next to us.
@@anon7596 nar dude, its the same with mc d icescream machines, the workers cant "repair" them only the company that makes em can
sounds like what apple does to its consumer base. charge exorbitant prices and design a product that's meant to be repaired only by their engineers.
Fucking greedy corpo sons of bitches.
$90k for the bag, $89,900 goes into the defense contractors pockets, then rest on jets. EZ payday
and they're putting bank robbers on death row...
@@notmo.
Of course, they steal from BANKS.
I work for a machining company that makes aerospace parts like these bushings. (not these exact ones) they can get pretty expensive. ($5 a piece)
But NOT 90k for a bag. Thats ridiculous.
I gotta start selling bushings to the air force
Ah the beauty of the government: It's not the best product for the best price, it's paying stupid amounts of money to a friend of a friend.
It's the Cantillon Effect in true fashion.
More like lobbyist @@coldblade666
I work in government, this is a known thing.
Just a quick example: an air filter for a Ford F150 will cost you between $8-$16 depending on the brand and where you buy it.
You know how much we pay? $96 per filter.
These businesses know that if any government entity is buying something it will get bought no matter what. (Job bids are a whole different thing)
I have used a purchase ticket to order oil for fleet trucks and it was over $48 per quart. Went back to that same place after work to buy a quart of oil for my truck and only pay $7 at most.
Ah i see. This issue comes from both corrupt companies and corrupt people who are happy to screw the government because the government will always pay.
What a horrible world we live in.
Nice to hear someone's personal experience. Thanks for sharing. So shitty though overall lol
In our shop a 4 0z. tube of grease was $300, a quart of oil was $900, a 4in ball valve was $50,000.
I work for government too, and ive seen similar things 😂.. its not someone money soo... 💀
It's not just government, it's anything involving an institution, that the business knows has mountains of money at their disposal. Any insurance (health, medical, automobile, home) you go to a business and tell them the insurance is covering the procedure or product and guess what, it just jumped up x4 in price. The consumer doesn't care, they're not paying for it, the business doesn't care, the insurance has to cover it, and so round and round we go in circles. Go to a body shop and see how much the invoice is if you're paying out of pocket, now tell them geico is covering it, see how much it is now
I did parts inventory for my division while in the navy, $90k for this isn't even a very extreme example. At least you can argue there more QA and regs done for these, ask them how much they pay for a 5 gallon bucket of normal paint.
Bro got 3 1/2 bricks of coke in his hands right there.
Yes you heared me right. These bushings cost more then 3 BRICKS of fully clean uncut coke...
Now let that sink in.
Healthcare works the same way.
was thinking the same thing, and found you beat me to it sir!
At least with Healthcare they can lie and say the 1000% charge up is to cover the student loans of the doctors. Which is obviously itself just another scam.
there is a reason why the cure for cancer still hasnt been found, even though whistleblowers leaked it twice in last 20yrs but we never hear the end of it. cancer treatment is more profitable than cure for big pharma
True but people have a harder time putting a concrete value on their health, whereas the tangibility of these physical goods in question makes the improper valuation much more plain to see.
Pentagon still couldnt explained why a cup of coffee costs $1200 each.
Cause how would they pocket 1,199$ if they didn't spend that much on a cup of coffee?
I can second this, as active duty in the Navy as an ET. I’m a UHF tech working on WSC-3 transceivers. Those radios were made in the late 70s early 80s and would be junk now. But modules within them run anywhere between $3,000 up to $45,000. Basic old electronic modules are marked up like crazy. Don’t even get me started with our MBT/ABT that supply power around the ship.
from my time in the military, ive seen cases where the Airforce has to buy all the parts, down to the screw, from original aircrafts manufacturer- per contract or they lose the warrenty and support
We pay these companies a ridiculous amount and they’re fucking us over.
It's not just the companies' faults, it's the government officials who profit from said companies by lying to their constituents about where their hard earned money is actually going, all while making huge profits. Goes hand-in-hand with insider trading.
@@Nickdeaugustine If anything, it's 100% the government. Without the government approving of this, the companies wouldn't be able to do anything.
It’s almost like they’ve paid the politicians to ensure it keeps happening.
@@zeriel9148 Nobody approving it except the few corrupt people that profit by doing it. Everyone else is just acknowledging what they're told because not everyone within a government entity has access to all this information.
its likely not the companies its someone in between taking the kickback
replace bushings with saline and you got a great description of american healthcare too😓
Exactly the same in all aviation industries including the RAF in the United Kingdom. "Aircraft grade"....
They still pay top dollar for old aircraft computers and analog components. Hundreds of thousands for some fragile component that was outdated 40 years ago and will need to be replaced in a month. Not just one or two old components, mind you, but 90% of the aircraft.
The reality is that 90K is going to pay bunches of people to do meaningless paperwork to get passed through the government and approved to sell and then buy it. Very very little goes to the product or testing of it. Majority is going to pay for the contract specialists that do the paperwork.
that also do nothing. ;)
Man I wish I was a suit dummy.. Why did I become a tradesman?
That's a long way to write "corruption."
I'd venture to guess that a significant portion of the cost of jet turbine bushings went to figuring out how to make them.
I was in the Air Force. I always said it was extremely stupid the costs the military pays for what they get. Its literally 6 digit price tags for relays and switches. The same thing you can buy at home depot for 20$ is paid for by the military at prices of 50,000 or 100,000. Half of these basic simplistic parts that are nothing more then pieces of metal clicking together are also "unrepairable" and Boeing says they cant repair them and you must buy a whole new assembly. Imagine it.
While I agree the price tags are exorbitant for literally no reason, I also wouldn't compare a home depot relay to anything used in aviation or avionics. Granted the ones I use now in academia are only a few hundred a pop there's a world of difference in the protection circuits with added say, p-channel circuits, p-n diode protections or even just high arc count rated gates that stop that metal clicking piece from causing a fault that'll ground you or worse leave a system engaged/disengaged.
Everything when I was in the military though was a joke expense wise, even considering serialized everything.
Let's assume (probably correctly) that the $20 equipment from home-depot sucks. If the bad one costs $20, the good one will cost $100. Shit, go for $1,000 if you want. It still beats the shit out of the 50k they are spending
@@AnyMEmdqyou could hand craft artisan relays and switches and it wouldn't cost $1k. The $20 at Home Depot is already inflated.
So when they say they spent several billion dollars in a project it's because of this
@@4.0.4 Not the point, though.
Let's go with some factual info, first: If the baseline price of a product, inflated or not, is $20, the baseline price for the actually good version of that product would be around $100.
And what I said, is that, even if that was still short, because neither the $20 or the $100 ones are accurate to their needs, and they need the absurdly expensive version of the product, that won't be even 1k. But giving them the undeserved benefit of the doubt and saying that's the case, $1k each, that's still 50 to 100 times cheaper.
His estimate was way off. It would be more like 1k or so but that is dependant on batch size, if it was just that bag it would be around 5k. Its not the part it the audit trail, the doc packs for high integrity components are beyond comprehension. For level 1 parts, items that if the fail could lead to a catastrophic failure for heat treating alone you will need the temperature graphs, the furnace calibration certs, the operator competence certs, the internal sign off certs operator and team leader/ quality rep sign offs along with their competency records. That is for the heat treating alone. The full pack for sourcing and testing the raw material to machining and checking the part will be around 100 plus pages and take a week or so collect. Sounds excessive I know but how many times have we read of a mechanical failure and it was traced back to a simple bolt. A simple COTS, commercial off the shelf, part would not get anywhere near a assembly in many sensitive industries. In the nuclear submarine industry any cots parts used for packing or transport must be painted red so there is zero chance they will get anywhere near the boat. But 90k and someone is having a giggle for sure. In these industries it became evident to me over the last 20 years you pay for the audit trail, the parts are free! Or it's down to the customer for military the government, do you accept a commercial level of failure and you can have that bag of bolts for $200. With the threat of industrial manslaughter on the table they will never say yes
Id like to see the supporting evidence because 90k might not be for the bag itself but for the capability and guaranteed supply of the bushings. Like when the USAF had a contract with Dell for the toughbooks, it was something like 8k a laptop, but that came with a unlimited repair and replacment contract.
What's even funnier is he doesn't talk about how this is a problem...
1. Across the board, all branches of the military have this issue,
2. A lot of what is paid for at an excess (out of the taxpayer's pocket of course) eventually ends up in surplus or as foreign aid donations
🤣
The other $89 900 is for "Logistics" AKA paying politicians to sign off on their questionable endeavours.
Independence Day 1996 - Cost of a Hamer
Great movie quote that I always remember when governmental cost comes up.
Like 20k are for "logistics" The other 69k (nice) are 50-50 between the one politician that got the deal made, and the owner of the company who happens to be their spouse's cousin. Of course, the ones who get part of the 20k and their spouse's cousins also have their own 90k deals going on. The 20k are just symbolic, the real payment for looking the other way is looking the other way in turn
USAF also was buying $1,280 coffee mugs... And When I was in the USMC friend of mine was in Supply, and showed us there were hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on absolute bullsht every day... He was on GCSS ordering and reviewing the accounting for the unit.. Its Fking insane how much money is literally wasted on BS in the military..
No one tells you they pay the premium because it’s the most accurate possibly not even 0.0005mm off. When you are making aircraft’s you want everything done right or you risking lives and even more money.
Source: friend of aerospace engineer who went to top 3 school worked for nasa and now designes planes
this is for anything in avionics, I used to work in a parts warehouse, we have two lists, one was regular parts, and one was avionics. they are commonly made by the same company, using the same standards, but only one of them has been approved by the FAA which instantly and dramatically increases their price.
also a lot of the smaller airplanes use old GM motor components . . . take that for what you will
Yup. I ship commercial aerospace parts and it's crazy how much gets spent for even the simplest of items. Stuff anyone could literally buy down the street like toiler paper, but it's gotta be FAA approved so it's sent across the country overnight for $400+ because the plane flies out in a few days and they are few rolls short.
This is the normal for the government. stop paying taxes.
I did property management for the army. I once saw one of our printers cost $6,000 on the property book, so I googled the brand and model number listed, and I could buy it from Office Max for $300. This is obscene.
Aircraft parts cost so much because they can literally track its entire life back to the mine shaft the material came out of. This is for safety so when your Boeing door blank falls off, you can find out if its material defect or incompetence.
But we aren't worried about companies cutting corners and planes falling out of the sky, that was last month's concern. Now we're mad that military jets have really expensive components in them, because we see similarly-named components at our local hardware store for way cheaper.
>90k
>Not coke
>Scam
Well, yeah. This is the air force; not the cia.
actually it is even worse then that. it isn't limited to the air force. the navy pays such prices as well as the army and the marines. A pair of night vision goggles for example cost the military 6 digits where as the civilian version costs 3 digits worth.
* Ba-dum tss *
even crazier that they pay 90k a bag and then also get tax cuts on top of that lmao
Mostly from hiring managers that have no idea about what they are managing. Therefore they have no idea the true value of what they are managing/ordering along with not knowing what is actually necessary and not just bloat. They also do this to make sure they spend all their money in the budget or next year they will not get an increase.
I've been saying this for over a decade now. I did an internship at the DOD for Nuclear Weapons maintenance and I saw what they were paying for simple things just like bushings and I couldn't believe it. This is exactly why I think that China is either on parity or beyond the US in military ability. They just don't spend $9000 on a hammer.
IRL pay to win
Except only difference is with these 90k bushings no winnings occurring just massive debt on both sides.
@@novusparadium9430 The company selling to them and government people who pocket the money are winning friend.
In P2W every dollar goes to your power. This is worse than skin collection
Money laundering. Full Stop.
Ehhh, there is no need, whatsoever, to launder outgoing tax dollars.
This is corruption, plain and simple.
"He should have asked him how much he thinks it should cost"
Thats a good point asmond
to be fair if you dont know anything about the process its not reasonable to be able to know the price.
ive sold fasteners to clients in the defense industry before and a box of similar looking bolts could go from 10 bucks to 100.000 depending on the specifications. and i can vow for the fact that those prices were no scams.
@MennilTossFlykune i do think that its corruption in this case, or at least in many similar ones. but my point was that there are some cases where such a price would be warranted.
i only mentioned this because i dont think asking a politician "how much do you think this should cost" is a great question.
and in case you were referring to me gaining something from corruption, neither i nor my boss have had commission contracts. technically the head of the sales department would "profit" from this but in my case it was a one time 100 grand contract in a department that had 300+ million in yearly sales. i dont think he even noticed it.
all this to say that sometimes parts can be extremely costly without anyone doing it maliciously.
@@angulinhiduje6093 How can the price range on the same thing vary %1,000,000 and not be a scam? Please explain
@@angulinhiduje6093 How can the price on the same thing vary %1,000,000 and not be a scam. Please explain
you must understand that the alot of the reason things are expensive are due to the contract. under our contracts we have to get the company to promise to not share information with other companies and countries therefore we must also pay for discretion.
makes for good headlines and sound bites... recall they did the price comparisons before with the navy... problem was the "stuff" was for use on attack subs... they needed to be sound proof/dampening... incase it fell.
cool. Does that still warrant a 90k price tag?
@@edwinvoncarstein They could be made of an insular material for usage on a shaft that's inside a radar unit of some kind, that also needs to meet extreme temperature requirements while not deforming. You have no idea since there's zero information given on the context.
It's often the specs and "failure rate"... you get 80-90% a lot cheaper, the last few % gets more and more expensive... But this seems a bit over the actual cost differences for this one.
so the first 85% is $85 and the last 10% cost $89915, just a tad over I would say..
@@HoLeeFuk69 You have no clue how hard it is to knock a decimal place off the failure rate.
You also have no clue how hard it is to knock a decimal place off the tolerance.
@@dafunkmonster why is that? you just assume you're the smartest person in the room and no one else knows anything about failure rate? we're not talking about improving the failure rate bozo. Why don't you breakdown the cost behind the $90000 bag of bushings first big brain genius man.
Whenever the government makes purchasing decisions this is inevitable. Similar concept to a corporate employee with a company card (but even they have limits). If it's not your money as a gov employee, you soon stop minding the dollar differences. When cost is not a concern the only logic is If my job is X then I need Y - that's it, end of discussion and creativity. Then imagine there's dozens of you before and after you work there, and that price context is lost every time. No wonder it balloons exponentially. Then multiply yourself by the couple million others who work for the federal government.
Bro as a former military aircraft mechanic you wouldn't believe the prices the military pays for nuts and bolts. There are single bolts that cost 10,000$ each and none of the hardware the military uses is anything special. It is the exact same shit you can go down to the hardware store and buy. Parts manufacturers have monopolized the market and with rules that have been set in place the military is not allowed to shop anywhere else, so they get to hike up the prices of nonsense goods with no repercussions because there is no competition.
micro transactions goin crazyyyy
We've been getting scammed for generations..
TBH those bushings may be high precision and some specific high tensile or special alloy if it's for aircraft, which can drive cost through the roof.
i think it's rather unlikely that they pay 90k for every bag of bushings.
my guess is that's a part for a very specific plane used for very specific applications using a specific alloy, possibly having to be made by hand due to low numbers.
so they're using like one of these bags per 3 years or smth.
90000% value stonks
We're soooo cooked
The best part is that even if the price goes down 50% to please the public, it will still be a ridiculous waste of money.
If the military still works on the bidding for commissions system, that was probably the lowest prices for those bushes that the companies were offering.
People are saying its a scam but there's also the possibility that its to cover up the black budget. You want to fund shady programs but keep it off the books? This is how you hide the money. Scam could still be true, but it doesn't have to be the only thing going on here.
Cost plus..look it up.
The bigger the government is the more people are going to be using it for profit. Every time the government spends money someone is getting rich. The government is a system of private profits and public losses.
From what i read in the comments when this first posted was the price is bc of a highly regulated metal industry that cant just use the nuts u get from Home Depot. The level quality needs to be that to handle aircraft
Well if it is for an jet engine that might actually be the cost in civilian too, plane parts are insanely marked up since they have to be "rated" to be on an airplane.
What is the exact part? Doing some quick search, cost of a aircraft bushing varies from $0.10 to $600 a piece
noooo stop making sense, it's corruption man. get mad grrrrrr
So, a lot of military supply pricing is because the company that will be the supply source for XYZ bids on a contract, and the lowest bidder essentially wins it. That essentially turns into the contract they hold from then on says the military group that bought their contract cannot go to anyone else for these specified supplies so the supplier can just go "you need to pay me $500 for a screw" because the contract didn't say they couldn't do that. Similarly, whenever there's construction happening on a base and it takes 5 times as long as it should to put up a 1 story building with 4 rooms because all the workers only work 2 hours a day when they feel like it, that happens because that construction company won the contract and they can't really be forced to work faster, and will still be charging $2mil for that work
Yeah, part of the reason why a company will low bid is because they have a guarantee of repeat business.
If they didn't have that guarantee, they wouldn't bid so low.
There's a piece of tape that goes over a relief vent on a part I work on for an aircraft that costs $3,000. On deployments we just use clear masking tape you'd get from any arts and crafts section.
id venture a guess that theyre not standard bushings. every piece of a plane is regulated by the faa and they require specific parts be approved by themselves, making a 10.c sheet metal screw 40$ a pop in some cases.
Sure, there is obviously going to be increases in cost when you need very specialized equipment, but a 90,000% increase is way beyond reasonable. If people can't see that they are delusional. Anyone that works for the government in contracting or does contract work for the government knows just how fast and loose they are with spending because there are much worse cases than this (At least this one serves a purpose with helping keeping our nation safe even though it is still a complete scam).
if it's used in a turbine engine, how much did they pay for testing and compliance? Don't make those cost astronomical and you wont get astronomical steel circles.
The military in general is getting decimated by costs like these... Imagine how much the screens cost. Not at liberty to say, but you could buy at least 90 ipads... For the cost of one.
This is the way government contracts work sadly... I remember when we had to order a bolt for our Humvee for a seat bracket and it was 120$ for 1 when you could go to a local store and pay about 1.50$ at the time...
It costs $90k because the government requires them to cost $90k. You can't just sell them any bushings. There has to be a year long bidding process, contract negotiation, planning documents made, extensive material science experiments run, Security Standards so our enemies don't know what these are, The documents need to be revised, the parts need to be tested at three separate occasions, and bunch of other crap. And this process has to happen 3 times over, because the first batch bought are never used, the second batch bought are only used on test ranges/labs, and the third batch actually gets used.
..the enemy already knows what it is, it’s a fuckin bushing, no secret there
@@deathlineee24then make those and sell to govs for 45k a bag, why won't you? That'd be half the price already. Not made from chinesium clay steel but from something durable to last years in extreme heat and cold under a lot of strain. We'll be waiting, oh our military industry saviour!
@@deathlineee24 Remember that China _just_ recently found out how to mass-produce ballpoint pens on an industrial scale. They're completely incapable of making even Soviet-level jet engines. This might be more relevant than one might think.
@@roadent217 So u are the type of guy to let a suspecious american-chinese man into a research lab and get a good sleep after 😂 Dont underestimate ur enemy. Remember that "Israel" gave F-16 engine module to China. This might be more relevant than one might think 😉
@@roadent217bro WHAT. China is way more advanced than all that. They have stealth fighters . Pretty sure they can make ball point pens ffs
At one point in my life, I worked as a defense subcontractor. There is often two ish reasons why The cost is so prohibitively expensive. The first reason is usually the parts and question are super ultra specialized made of either unique alloy or made to the exact specifications of some exact detailed drawling. And the more unique a part is the more likely you’re going to have to have a ton of people underneath NDA and top secret and other legal paperwork to do this and they also need to be ultra specialized in this kind of thing for them to get governmental approval.
The other reason why some things are so expensive is absolutely stupid. It’s because the company will literally have to sit there for months on end waiting for the bureaucratic paperwork to go through so many defense companies feel justified in charging an absurd price because they have to keep the lights on while we’re waiting for some pencil pusher to approve.
Low production volume.
No outside customers (nobody else to sell to to bring per unit costs down).
Testing and certification to guarantee they meet specs.
Guarantee of long-term support.
The cheap chinese shit people buy off the shelves at Home Depot or off Amazon are:
1. very high production volume
2. not tested or certified
3. have no long-term support
@@dafunkmonster yeah this too
This is what happens when you give too big of a budget for the job they are doing, because they just start adding random crap at insane prices to justify the need for the budget to keep increasing.
As a former air force helicopter mechanic, this is accurate. I once had to replace a small plastic disk that wasn't important to flight and held no significance for the aircraft at all. It cost 1850. It was just an access panel for the drip pan of a pavehawk. It wasn't high tech or anything.
As someone who worked supply procurement for the air force, I can tell you some of the prices for shit was outrageous. A radio transmitter about the size of my hand was almost a million dollars. The bushings are probably titanium or platinum or some other precious metal. That's why they're so expensive. I had to order bags of bolts like this that were thousands of dollars each and it was because of what the bolts were made of.
Even if they're made out of titanium or platinum, I find it extremely hard to justify why it should cost almost a million dollars unless it's made out of diamonds.
@quissbird-10 Tbh I doubt it actually costs that much. I feel like it's priced like that to keep it out of our reach, because we're not just gonna call someone up and be like "Hey I need a bag of titanium." Much like medical care. If I go to the doctor without insurance, they'll send me a bill for several hundred dollars. But with insurance, I get a bill for like 5 bucks because the insurance company tells them to eat a bag of dicks and they go "Okay."
It's all a scam to keep insurance companies in the loop.
what material costs that much? a bag of bolts costing thousands is the equivalent of pure gold. titanium and platinum are like $30-50 an oz.
"A radio transmitter about the size of my hand was almost a million dollars."
How many years did a team of electrical engineers spend designing it?
For that 1 bag only or a freight full?
I worked in one of those bushing factories. If the client asks for a ridiculous accuracy so that the cutting block needs to be resharpened after every 30m-1h of use and requests everything to be tripple checked which risks half the stuff being thrown away and redone and if the client also askes for the same procedure as medical products that need to have tripple checks on top of everything and risks having to throw out everything and start the whole order over then yes, I can see how the price check can inflate hilariously. In the end, if the client demands it, we have to do it.
Also wanted to add another fact. The place I worked at had a "don't refuse any order" policy and I remember a production so shitty and hard to work with that the higherups told us; "Don't worry we'll raise the price so high they won't order it anymore." Guess what happened? The client simply said fine I'll pay and they probably still producing that crap to this day.
I got family in the business of finding good deals for the Air Force and military all together but I specifically remember hearing Air Force. Going to see what he thinks of this. He’s been doing it for awhile and actually gets paid pretty handsomely.
To do aerospace machining work. The part need to be made in an iso 9001/ as9100 certified shop. To do aerospace parts for the government you also need cmmc compliant(2.0 is coming soon and cost $50000 for the 1st level audit) the material need not only a cert but it need to be a domestic compliant cert with full heat lot traceability. Then there's the parts. If they go in a jet turbine engine those definitely are not just some normal bushing. They may be machine out of one of the many hi temp super alloys out there. Beyond that the tolerances may be extremely tight and there could be other processes including heat treatment , plating, and x ray inspection just to name a few. Most of the time you have to submit a fai that needs approval which double time and machine setup costs. Only other thing I can think of is all the paperwork. But yeah they should be $5 a piece
Great comment. Also, these weapons platforms and other equipment are extremely expensive to develop (often with 10-15 year development life cycles). They involve thousands of engineers, machinists, and support personnel across many first and second party companies. There are business negotiations and contracts with the government where the supplier can make money through various revenue streams (such as Maintenance, Repair & Operations).
These politicians know EXACTLY why these bushings cost that much. They just want to pretend that it's an outrage so they can score political points.
the cost can be higher, because they are from am American producer and they can be more expensive, because they have a higher guaranty, that they are not defect.
but like 1000-5000$ is the limit ffs.
Of course. I can completely understand them being expensive due to higher quality manufacturing. That is, until they use that as an excuse to add a couple more zeroes to the price tag
@@quissbird-10 yea, to be honest, i suspect, that these things are not like....bought....but ordered spare Parts....you cant directly buy a bag of bolts from a turbine factory.
So it is kinda retarded to buy these spare Parts from this company, because they are overprized and not the actual product, they sell.....turbines.
american produced fasteners are not great...
Ok, so if it ends up costing more than $5000 to make a set of bushings for a jet engine, they should just use cheap shit and let the engine blow up?
@@dafunkmonster once again, i presume the cost is partly so high, because it is a jet-engine company, selling jet.engines....and their spare parts....and i bet, that they buy these idiotic parts from the jet engine producer.
so the jet engineer has to order it from a different munfactor, secure the quality of it a second time without existing for this purpose and than, they sell this stuff overprized, because they actual dont want to do this stuff......
i bet, the stat eis not going to the actual company, that actual produces it.
Yeah it's sad how this just keeps going on and on.
This kind of mismanagement of funds is sadly not limited to military spending. When I worked for California State Parks in Orville a few years ago, my boss spent $20000 on monitor stands and spent $80000 remodeling a VERY small kitchen.