Many moons ago (won't say how many), I spent some range time with some airgun target shooters. Those guys were REALLY good. The interesting thing is that they had a set of custom made dies that they put every pellet they shot through. It looked kind of like the old Ideal hand loaders. When I asked, they told me that the dies brought every pellet back into spec., and every pellet they shot into a target had gone through the dies. Only much later did I realize that these were probably custom made dies, just for those guys, and probably cost as much as their guns. But from what I saw, it really worked. Of course, they were only shooting 177 wadcutters, so only one kind of pellets to deal with, but I'm thinking that once a particular brand/style/weight has been decided on, something similar could be done.
After machining the dimple into the pedestal, before removing it from the lathe, put a dab of lapping compound on to several pellets and lap the dimple under power to the exact shape of the nose of your pellet. I've used this process to lap the top punch on my lubrisizer when sizing cast bullets. It will take several pellets to perform this but the results will produce a perfect match for the bullet or pellet that your lapping.
A dapping tool works for pellets from 17 to probably 35.. though my .357 pellets seem well made.... 17, 20, 22, and 25 are easy to form the the skirt with... a dapping tool is a rod with a ball on the end... almost perfect to use! Thanks for the video!
Kris ... Have you ever tried one of Marmot Militia's Hammer Forged barrels. I got one about 4 months ago and I know 3 other people who have purchased one also ... between the 4 of us we are averaging 1/2" groups at 50 yards. We lube the pellets with FP-10 and pull a patch through the barrel about every 50 to 75 rounds. The barrels are made with the JSB line of pellets in mind but the 15.98g and 18.13g and the AA 16g work best. The barrel is incredibly tight as opposed to the Crossman barrel as it comes from the factory. It is a drop in replacement with no additional work necessary. Prior to buying the new barrel, the best I could do with my synrod was 2 1/2" groups. You will have to lube the pellets because the barrel is sooooo tight that it will lead the barrel up really quick without it. The guy at Marmot Militia says that he guarantees his work and if it does not meet your expectations, he will refund your money. This is the only modification I have on the synrod and the difference is night and day.
even the after mod groupings are horrible. well, you've managed to talk me out of ever putting money on a marauder. I'll stick to my spring pistons for now.
You are right , this is a sizer...as in shrinking to a specific size. Most people buy a large head diameter (Larger than their lands & grooves) so the sizer makes them a perfect (Sizes them down ) fit to their rifle. When you buy the LW barrel , you want to buy an extension with an extra baffle or two so the relationship will remain the same between your barrel and outer tube will remain the same.One can now purchase an extension for the air chamber also ! Noise is same or less .
I'm almost 7 years late, but if you hadn't thought to already, get a small tube you can place onto your pedestal around the pellet to keep it perfectly upright, and you'll not have to deal with that issue again. As a bonus, it'd improve consistency of what you're doing, particularly if you were to make its length such you can't "over-tap" the BB into the skirt.
if you hadnt noticed, the more consistent shots(as in fps) were the most accurate, those far off ones were either low in fps or rlly high. that culd be fixed with the regulator mod, you can find it on here.
Its a counterfeit. You better contact JSB and report the store that sold it to you. JSB have a proprietary alloy and the shape of their pellets are always consistent.
From the muzzle, the Beemans are about 60 FPS faster, but they have poor ballistic coefficient; whereas the JSB has very good BC. Therefore, after a certain distance, the JSB's are retaining more velocity.
you can use a jewelers doming kit, i have been sizing and flaring skirts for centuries that way, also have a similar sizer , i got my standard deviation down to 4 fps for a .20 cal pellet i love my milling machine for any projects i need to do and former machine shop experience with bridgeport, acme gridley lathes and a few CNC. you got the right sizer idea, just limit the depth to the exact length of the pellet then press in precision dome tool, the jewelers sets have plenty of sizes to work for any pellet, you also can chuck the dome tool in a drill press and limit pull down of handle on drill press to flare pellet just right, rather then a manual flare, you actually could set milling machine or drill press at slow speed and it would not hurt pellet since its a doom tool and has a shine surface to it. another thing is every rifle has its oun "choke" the lands and groves with smaller diameters are loose on a pellet will make them shoot scattered, for example i have a daisy 747 pistol with a very tight choked barrel wich even makes cheap pellets accurate just because of the fact the pellet gets good rifling, a way to test pellets is push them down barrel then look for deep cuts on head and skirt of pellet, if you see that its a good sign, a good example is a gamo TS .22 pellet, the head diameter is under size for for a lot of air rifles and doesnt get needed rifling on the first part of pellet, or benjamin .20 cylinder pellets dont have flare enough to be seated flush in some bores, so the need to be flared a bit. your test at 60 yards you could add a 30 yard test since some pellets may have a limit to how far they go before they lose the twist in flight and stability, like a football that has lost its spin, same with pellets if you push them to far in distance. some pellets are velocity fussy also, the best accuracy i have seen in .22 cal pellets are guys in england who shoot them at 550-750 max wich is maybe a sweet spot for all .22 pellets. go heavy and tame velocity down a bit you may see good results. check scope for canting also, i have known many people to forget canting of a scope can cost you an inch or two at them distances, a leveled platform to shoot from, a leveled rifle, and a leveled scope. this is why even i got a cheap daisy 35 smooth bore plastic pump rifle can do dimes and under at 15 yards, it would do quarter sizes at 15 yards if i didnt level everything
If you weight each pellet you may be amazed. I just weighted 500 JSB Jumbo Heavy Diablo 19.13 gr 5.53mm and found that they made almost equal piles of 18.0gr (and less), 18.1, 18.2,18.3, 18.4 and a smaller amount at 18.5, and a few at 18.6. I have ordered a tool to size the skirts at 5.53 (because some are not even round). I want to be able to get the best pellet and power setting in a FX Impact. Thank you for your video.
Teds Holdover showed him getting flight instability from a dirty barrel and this quit after cleaning. A good gas seal and the pellet engaged in the rifling is likely very much going to affect accuracy.
I just use the head of one pellet to fix the skirt of another. No holder, just one in each hand. Quick and easy for expanding the skirt or fixing a bent one. You might try this and see if there is any proof.
First off, excellent work! Your videos are clear, informative, and entertaining. Thanks! Second, if this is still interesting to you, i have found that while pellet testing, i must shoot a new pellet at least 7 times off target before recording its group data so as to allow the barrel to be be "leaded" to that pellet. For instance, when switch from the beeman fts to the unmodified jsb,the first few! This can be tiresome, but totally worth it in accessing accuracy. Thanks for your great work!
These pellets come in a variety of head sizes I use 5.52 mm however I believe 5.50 and 5.51 are available. There should be a sticker on the back of the tin that will have the head size in brackets (52) for 5.52 etc.
Couple other thoughts: The .22 barrels are Crosman production barrels (can be real crap). The .25's used to all be manufactured by Green Mountain for Crosman (much better barrels). I believe Green Mountain has done runs of .22cal for the Marauder ((and would be great upgrade option).
I own the 22 Mrod. It is a real shame that crosman can't take a hint at fixing their over sized barrels. Their CP pellets shoots pretty well out of my rifle but I prefer heavier pellets. I did the same thing you did with expanding the skirts but also the head of a 5.50 barracuda through a sizing die I made and a press. What was shooting 1 inch at 25 yards turned into one holes!
I LOVE your videos! They are very educational and informative. However, since you have figured out how to make the JSB Match Diabolo Exact pellet one of the most accurate pellets for the Marauder with excellent grouping is there a reason you haven't contacted the manufacturer in Czech Republic? Maybe they could very easily make an adjustment to their dies and send the pellets for you to test. I believe that they would LOVE to be the world's #1 accurate pellet for the Marauder. It would increase their sales 10 fold.
That was an awesome video you constructed. A real eye opener at that, I know a lot of work went into producing this fine Tutorial . In any case you really taught me something,....Thanks.
i used to this kind of modfi on few of my pellets i figured the best way is use precision screw driver of .23 size and simply hold the pellet and take the pellet on screw driver inside its skirt and press while circulate it on the tip of screw driver ,than use a small size funnell to smoothen the roughed edges , simple push of fingers will do , u dont need hammer ,lead is too soft to change u can dent it chew it mold it just by pressure of ur fingers nails if u can use them rightly and that way u might need much lesser time mading all pellets ig u need
They're key-holing. The pellets are not being stabilized by the grooves. It fixes it by opening the skirt, or just using a shorter, lighter pellet. Have you measured the lands inside the barrel? Get a replacement from Benjamin, size your pellets, open the skirts.
now my JSB match exact king diabolos are by far the most accurate .25 cal i have ever fired through any of my .25 cal air guns.my marauder loves them my hatsan loves them and my wolverine loves them more than any other .25 cal pellet.
Incredible groups at 60 yds. Impressive. I think your on to something. I use H&N ftt for my prowler. They print head diameter on the tin. My first two tins read 5.53mm. Got good results. I ordered two more, and was worried when I saw a new label, and printed size read 5.54mm. I noticed them going in the breech requiring more push. I was surprised to see my group tighten up, a lot.
John Tempest Pellet size is critical and must be printed on the retail tin, I often find this is often not the case, my old model Daystate must have 4.52 anything else is scrap lead, I used Bisley Magnum since gun was new, my search for them from non firearm outlets was very frustrating, I called with a firearm dealer who went through a huge catalogue and found them,but he has to purchase 50 tins, which understandably he can't do! However he found another brand JSB with the same specifications where he can buy single tins, I will gladly try these, too many variables in air gunning especially when air rifles are so expensive!
Are you happy with the LW? 23.8 inches must leave you with only one baffle--has the noise increased much? The sizer looks like a well-made product, and it would definitely be faster if all the pellets fell into the holes easily without too much time spent shaking it around. Unfortunately, it appears to be a pellet shrinker only, but I could be wrong. It didn't say anything about the tool expanding them first before shrinking them to size.
What you have there sir are a phenomenon called spiraling pellets. Those thousandths are what are making them less accurate. It's hard to explain but what it is when the pellets skirt is a tiny bit to small or large for the barrel. Thus creating a funky spin. Now you know that your gun likes the larger skirted pellets. If needing a reference EDgunusa and his pellet sorting video will help explain more.
Do try the H&N Barracuda match 21.65 grain pellet before you change barrel.I have found that ignoring the sizes stated on the tin H&Ns always fit tighter in the barrel compared to JSBs.I have 4PCPs but 26 springers so i feel the fit of the pellet.
Kris, I will be shooting the exact pellets you are shooting in the video. My .22 pellet rifle and my .22 pellets both read 5.5 MM. I found some pellet sizers being sold on ebay today. The problem I am having is the pellet sizers come in 4 sizes (5.50, 5.51, 5.52, 5.53.) . how do I know which is the right size for these pellets? I was hoping with your exact precise measuring you might be able to tell me. I sure would appreciate it. Thank You!
wiegh ur pellets m8 . there cn be a 1 grain difference in a pack of h&n ftt and jsb ive heard have similar wieght variations . that will be costing u the up down on your group size . also look on the bk of the tin on the barcode thart gives the true head size . thnks for taking the time to make a vid and help the community . big up from across the pond
Why didn't you buy 5.52 0r 5.53 the options are there for barrel tolerances. Or kinda think buy over sized and pass through a pellet sizer to bring them down if needed. Measures twice cut once kinda thinking
Since you seem to have a machine shop, and all the mod seems to do is expand the skirt, why not machine a swage for a reloading press? I think it would be more consistent.
Hi Guys, my Mrod .22 will shoot the JSBs shoot a dime size group but put those same JSBs in my Airforce condor and you have a tack driver able to hit parts of the same starting hole shot. HN Hollow points .22 in my Mrod is also a take driver. Your Maurader should be able to shoot dime size or less groups at 60 yards with rare flyers. I would consider turning up your hammer spring abit to get more FPS out of your airrifle. Heavy pellets like JSB need more power behind them for consistant accuracy. Just my experience.
I have not been able to find any of the 18.1 in anything but 5.52. None of my tins have the size listed anywhere. Another problem is that .01mm is actually smaller than .001 inch. The difference in head diameter that I saw between the first two pellets was .002 inch. Mathematically, if (big IF) the first tin were 5.51's, and with the .002 difference I saw, then the second tin should have been something like 5.56. I am thinking that it is more of a quality-control issue on JSB's part.
I think it would be easier to buy pellets that shoot better through your marauder. I have found that my marauder .25 loves the crosman pellets. I have tried other brands and they don't shoot as well.
I also noticed that your pellet speed went up to about 635fps. When shooting the Beeman, they were going far slower than the JSBs. Very odd considering they are far lighter. I would conclude your gun prefers a large head/skirt combination and higher speeds.
The JSB's have a much higher Ballistic Coefficient than the Beeman. (.034 for the JSB and .022 for the Beeman). The chronograph readings you see in this video are taken at about 60 yards, but at the muzzle, the velocity using the same gun & same tune average about 780 for the JSB's, whereas the Beeman is faster at around 844 fps. Results may vary depending upon the gun and it's specific tune, but given enough yardage, the 18.1 JSB's will eventually overtake the 14.66 Beeman.
after reading all the rhetoric below, I had two thoughts how many pellets have been put through that rifle?(possible dirty barrel) and check the grain weights of each tin of pellets,in a tin of 500 .22 cal I have had deviations of 2.2 grains.Try to separate by weight then wash and re- lube your pellets(bullet lube not oil) make sure the lube dries overnight to stop dieseling.try with different power settings.good luck happy shooting
i think it may be a barrel problem at 60 yards all the groups were poor, i have rapid 7 and a huntsman and they both group under 1inch at 60 yards, but thanks for sharing,
And I agree, at least with the barrel I used up to this point, that a larger (tighter) pellet is more accurate. The Beeman FTS that was the most accurate .22 in my previous video "Accuracy & Energy Test" measures about .218 inch at the head which would make them a true 5.53-5.54mm. The latest batch of 18.1 JSB's (500 tin) I recently purchased from Pyramid Air are still measuring about .216 which would make them 5.49. A true 5.52mm should be at least .217 inch--yet to fin a 18.1 JSB that large.
Hi seems your gun prefers a .22 with a larger skirt ? also did you give the barrel a light clean with a pull through and then re lead with 20-30 pellets before testing each batch/brand, if not this could be your problem. Another thing is different batches of the same pellet can vary greatly, batch number is usually on a sticker on the bottom of the tin, so different batches can be like shooting different brands.
Ah I just looked it up, they don't do another head size with this pellet. they do 5.50, 5.51, 5.52 in 16 grain. These probably sell more at least in Europe. An 18 grain pellet just means a worse trajectory when you have to live with a power limit
I would clean the barrel, put a good few pellet's down range. (same make) Try your test on ONE type of pellet. You could try that with the others, but start from cleaning again, and running the barrel in, again. I use JSB Diablo, but not the heavy. Great in my gun. I am not an expert, so bare with me. A friend of mine has the same gun as mine, but not as accurate with the JSB's. We have tried each other's gun's and pellets. His gun and pellet's are fine with me shooting, and vice versa. Good luck.
TedsHoldOver (here on YT) did an accuracy test on the .25 marauder. He stated/showed a "copper coated pellet" that the marauder loved. Might take a look at it. But well done on your vids. Very well done
do you not think it might just be the gun is shooting with too much fpe at 60 yards due to the light weight of the pellet so it is destabilizing mid flight. you should get some slow motion scope can footage and it will clarify this as even after the 'modification' @ 60yds the group is still very large. the ability of getting a group under 1" at that range should be possible.
It's like carpet squares, each batch is a slightly different color and have batch numbers on the box. Pellets are the same, however they never have a batch number on the tin. Of course all pellets have subtle weight differences and skirts have small nicks too and are dirty with sworf. Match shooters, wash lubricate and sort by weight, extremists also view with a USB microscope. As for shooting a wabbit who cares.
Kris, hope you are still shooting air guns. Great video. I want to try expansion of my pellet skirts after a statistical analysis found wider skirts (as estimated by Yrrah roll results) reduce shot spread. How did you make your pedestal? Any guidance for folks like me that don't have access to a machine shop?
Excellent video and test. I didn't read every bodies comments but have you tried the JSB Exact 15.8s? I shoot them in an Airgun Tech Vulcan and they 1 hole at 25 yards. I have hit small English Sparrows at 60 plus yards with them. Maybe your gun doesn't like the heavier ones. Just a thought. I have actually modified many pellets in a similar way you did without much result. I think head diameter is also very important. Anyway, excellent video!! Thank you
Are jsb like the air arms pellets come in 2 sizes 5.52/5.51 I always found the slightly bigger ones grouped finger nail size and small ones went wild maybe you need to try a few different brands good vid very interesting
wow, never seen pellets keyhole before . two on the paper on the left size at 0:58 are keyholed(for those who dont know a keyhole is when a projectile destabilizes and hits the target sideways)
jsb exact jumbo heavy 5,53 18,1 grain and jsb jumbo express 14,4 grain are the most common jsb's here in greece.... there are some HN's 5,53 very good too and the AA pellets in 5.52 are good too...!!! i can't post u a link to see but i think it wouldn't be hard to get...isn't there a forum for airguners to ask others?
Have you tried fire Lapping?That’s what I did with my .22 marauder And that helped my accuracy tremendously at 50 yards I was getting around a half inch to three-quarter inch group if you’re interested on what I did please ask me what grit i used I’ll be more than glad to help I have knowledge😎😎
@taemard I ordered a new barrel for the .22 from Crosman. It took them several weeks to get it shipped out. I am hoping that is a good sign--like maybe a batch for a new and improved design that finally got finished. Slim chance, I know; but either way, it will be exciting to give the pellets you mentioned, as well as a few others, a second chance. (I tested the Crosman Premier and the Predator Polymag in one of my previous videos.)
I know there are rimfire shooters out there that when they want to get the most accuracy out of a box o' gun food, they weigh each one and measure each one and separate them into groups within a batch. Would following a similar process for pellet/air rifle food have the same results? I know in your other video, about 3/10 shots were flyers. That would lead me to believe you could eliminate some, if not all of them by weighing/measuring them beforehand. What do you think?
I tell ya, as far as .177 pellets go, the best Ive used is the RWS superdome 8.3g, these are deadly accurate in my 1200 ruger...... They are cheaper to by thru wal-mart, especially if you use in store pickup.....
Try some cheep o's I'm using Daisy precision max premium grade .22 / 14grn/ head .215 / skirt .225 flat nosed, they do make pointed. In my tuned B-3, the thin skirt, seals wonderfully and the soft lead grabs the rifling, the pellets have a graphite coating, there going for about $3.00 for 250. That is before you spend lots of cash
After more than a decade I have stumbled across your video, I hesitate to say you might try a better springer, My JSB's unwashed unsorted unmodified fly really well out of all sorts of odd and random air guns. AA prosport, Bam 40,cometa star, bsa airsporter bsa superstar etc etc.
Thanks for the comment, but I am trying to understand why portrait vs landscape would make any difference in credibility. So your saying that if the modified pellet was on the left and unmodified was on the right (or vise versa) that you would not have been able to take the video as seriously as the way I did it with over/under?
thanks for the video. in my opinion, jsb pellet has been very inconsistent between batch. have a look at the bottom of the tin and record the batch number. either its a batch number or perhaps the machine batch. in .177 heavy exact, i find that the batch 0 and 2 would be the most consistent. ive tried it on different gun, hw100 and cricket. both gun shows the same result. have you tried running it at higher speed? with jsb, i find skirt expansion during the flight inside the barrel is very important. ive tested the jsb king, and ive even tested it between the perfectly round skirt and the one i bent/dented. they almost gave same result and i believe due to pellet expansion. try running it closer to 950 or even 1000 at the muzzle? anyway awesome vid mate
from what i heard JSB is very concious about things like these so you might want to mail them that information. Who knows, they might have a look at their machines/batches and resolve this problem.
@BeyondNeptune I would be interested to know just what causes the size differences. Do the casting dies actually wear out? Sometimes I wonder if the larger pellets I measured that shot so much better were actually borderline scrap, and the smaller were closer to their ideal size. If dies were wearing out, wouldn't the pellets from those dies be larger?
Kris Minnear - short answer for everyone is, yes, dies can wear out. BUT that takes so many thousands of uses that it really isn't a factor. What IS a factor is changes in the alloy used. Pure lead will yield one diameter, and adding a trace of another metal (tin or antimony or etc), will give a slightly different diameter from the same die. The heat that the dies operate at will also give subtle differences in diameter, as will the pressure of inserting the lead into the dies. Cold forming VS hot forming, and so on. What can I say? These are facts. Good video.
I really dislike JSB's system of naming their pellets; when I made this video, I wasn't sure what to call them. According to the schulzdiabolo site you noted (thanks), the 18.1 grain I use are "Exact Jumbo Heavy" and they only list 5.52. JSB also makes "Exact Jumbo" (not heavy) which are supposedly only 15.9 grain. It is this pellet that is available in 5.50, 5.51, and 5.52 head sizes. I haven't tried this lighter pellet; I don't think it is quite as popular with Marauder owners.
"BB" is actually a size of birdshot used in shotguns and is listed as being .180 inch. The BB's I used in the video to spread the skirt of the .22 pellets are the common steel ones used for modern day BB guns. They actually measure closer to .172 inch which ironically is closer to "B" sized birdshot--listed as .170 inch.
rule of thumb,find the most accurate pellet and shoot nothing else.it saves a head ache trying to figure out why your gun is shooting off.also,bench vise the gun.target bullseye,shoot 1 pellet.keeping the gun scoped on the bullseye,now move cross hairs to the pellet hole.when hairs are on pellet hole,bring gun/scope back to bullseye and shoot again.you should be very close.repeat the steps until you are spot-on.you will find 'fliers' once in a while but do not correct scope until all other causes are ruled out..causes could also be wind/etc.i use H&N.
As discussed below, head size is pretty critical when it comes to accuracy. Don't believe what it says on the tin either! My last tin of .177 JSB Exacts were supposedly 4.52mm, but the entire tin, as measured with my PelletGage, were 4.50 or 4.49. My Daystate rifles (a MK3 and a Pulsar) will shoot 4.51, 4.52 (preferred) and 4.53 very well, but 4.50 and smaller won't group well at all.
I use the point on a Phono Jack as it fits perfectly and corrects bent pellet skirts on cheap pellets.
Many moons ago (won't say how many), I spent some range time with some airgun target shooters. Those guys were REALLY good. The interesting thing is that they had a set of custom made dies that they put every pellet they shot through. It looked kind of like the old Ideal hand loaders. When I asked, they told me that the dies brought every pellet back into spec., and every pellet they shot into a target had gone through the dies.
Only much later did I realize that these were probably custom made dies, just for those guys, and probably cost as much as their guns. But from what I saw, it really worked. Of course, they were only shooting 177 wadcutters, so only one kind of pellets to deal with, but I'm thinking that once a particular brand/style/weight has been decided on, something similar could be done.
After machining the dimple into the pedestal, before removing it from the lathe, put a dab of lapping compound on to several pellets and lap the dimple under power to the exact shape of the nose of your pellet. I've used this process to lap the top punch on my lubrisizer when sizing cast bullets. It will take several pellets to perform this but the results will produce a perfect match for the bullet or pellet that your lapping.
A dapping tool works for pellets from 17 to probably 35.. though my .357 pellets seem well made.... 17, 20, 22, and 25 are easy to form the the skirt with... a dapping tool is a rod with a ball on the end... almost perfect to use! Thanks for the video!
Kris ... Have you ever tried one of Marmot Militia's Hammer Forged barrels. I got one about 4 months ago and I know 3 other people who have purchased one also ... between the 4 of us we are averaging 1/2" groups at 50 yards. We lube the pellets with FP-10 and pull a patch through the barrel about every 50 to 75 rounds. The barrels are made with the JSB line of pellets in mind but the 15.98g and 18.13g and the AA 16g work best. The barrel is incredibly tight as opposed to the Crossman barrel as it comes from the factory. It is a drop in replacement with no additional work necessary. Prior to buying the new barrel, the best I could do with my synrod was 2 1/2" groups. You will have to lube the pellets because the barrel is sooooo tight that it will lead the barrel up really quick without it. The guy at Marmot Militia says that he guarantees his work and if it does not meet your expectations, he will refund your money. This is the only modification I have on the synrod and the difference is night and day.
even the after mod groupings are horrible. well, you've managed to talk me out of ever putting money on a marauder. I'll stick to my spring pistons for now.
You are right , this is a sizer...as in shrinking to a specific size. Most people buy a large head diameter (Larger than their lands & grooves) so the sizer makes them a perfect (Sizes them down ) fit to their rifle.
When you buy the LW barrel , you want to buy an extension with an extra baffle or two so the relationship will remain the same between your barrel and outer tube will remain the same.One can now purchase an extension for the air chamber also ! Noise is same or less .
I'm almost 7 years late, but if you hadn't thought to already, get a small tube you can place onto your pedestal around the pellet to keep it perfectly upright, and you'll not have to deal with that issue again. As a bonus, it'd improve consistency of what you're doing, particularly if you were to make its length such you can't "over-tap" the BB into the skirt.
if you hadnt noticed, the more consistent shots(as in fps) were the most accurate, those far off ones were either low in fps or rlly high. that culd be fixed with the regulator mod, you can find it on here.
Its a counterfeit. You better contact JSB and report the store that sold it to you. JSB have a proprietary alloy and the shape of their pellets are always consistent.
Blitz4000 Might be the actual store he bought it from. Little mom and pop shops have been known to "upgrade" certain merchandise.
Seems like a task well suited to a reloading press. The skirt flaring pressure could be closely controlled.
From the muzzle, the Beemans are about 60 FPS faster, but they have poor ballistic coefficient; whereas the JSB has very good BC. Therefore, after a certain distance, the JSB's are retaining more velocity.
great video, its awesome to hear the pellets pass by the mic.
you can use a jewelers doming kit, i have been sizing and flaring skirts for centuries that way, also have a similar sizer , i got my standard deviation down to 4 fps for a .20 cal pellet i love my milling machine for any projects i need to do and former machine shop experience with bridgeport, acme gridley lathes and a few CNC. you got the right sizer idea, just limit the depth to the exact length of the pellet then press in precision dome tool, the jewelers sets have plenty of sizes to work for any pellet, you also can chuck the dome tool in a drill press and limit pull down of handle on drill press to flare pellet just right, rather then a manual flare, you actually could set milling machine or drill press at slow speed and it would not hurt pellet since its a doom tool and has a shine surface to it. another thing is every rifle has its oun "choke" the lands and groves with smaller diameters are loose on a pellet will make them shoot scattered, for example i have a daisy 747 pistol with a very tight choked barrel wich even makes cheap pellets accurate just because of the fact the pellet gets good rifling, a way to test pellets is push them down barrel then look for deep cuts on head and skirt of pellet, if you see that its a good sign, a good example is a gamo TS .22 pellet, the head diameter is under size for for a lot of air rifles and doesnt get needed rifling on the first part of pellet, or benjamin .20 cylinder pellets dont have flare enough to be seated flush in some bores, so the need to be flared a bit. your test at 60 yards you could add a 30 yard test since some pellets may have a limit to how far they go before they lose the twist in flight and stability, like a football that has lost its spin, same with pellets if you push them to far in distance. some pellets are velocity fussy also, the best accuracy i have seen in .22 cal pellets are guys in england who shoot them at 550-750 max wich is maybe a sweet spot for all .22 pellets. go heavy and tame velocity down a bit you may see good results. check scope for canting also, i have known many people to forget canting of a scope can cost you an inch or two at them distances, a leveled platform to shoot from, a leveled rifle, and a leveled scope. this is why even i got a cheap daisy 35 smooth bore plastic pump rifle can do dimes and under at 15 yards, it would do quarter sizes at 15 yards if i didnt level everything
If you weight each pellet you may be amazed. I just weighted 500 JSB Jumbo Heavy Diablo 19.13 gr 5.53mm and found that they made almost equal piles of 18.0gr (and less), 18.1, 18.2,18.3, 18.4 and a smaller amount at 18.5, and a few at 18.6. I have ordered a tool to size the skirts at 5.53 (because some are not even round). I want to be able to get the best pellet and power setting in a FX Impact. Thank you for your video.
Where did you order the pellet sizer please?
Teds Holdover showed him getting flight instability from a dirty barrel and this quit after cleaning. A good gas seal and the pellet engaged in the rifling is likely very much going to affect accuracy.
I just use the head of one pellet to fix the skirt of another. No holder, just one in each hand. Quick and easy for expanding the skirt or fixing a bent one. You might try this and see if there is any proof.
First off, excellent work! Your videos are clear, informative, and entertaining. Thanks! Second, if this is still interesting to you, i have found that while pellet testing, i must shoot a new pellet at least 7 times off target before recording its group data so as to allow the barrel to be be "leaded" to that pellet. For instance, when switch from the beeman fts to the unmodified jsb,the first few! This can be tiresome, but totally worth it in accessing accuracy. Thanks for your great work!
These pellets come in a variety of head sizes I use 5.52 mm however I believe 5.50 and 5.51 are available. There should be a sticker on the back of the tin that will have the head size in brackets (52) for 5.52 etc.
Couple other thoughts:
The .22 barrels are Crosman production barrels (can be real crap). The .25's used to all be manufactured by Green Mountain for Crosman (much better barrels). I believe Green Mountain has done runs of .22cal for the Marauder ((and would be great upgrade option).
I own the 22 Mrod. It is a real shame that crosman can't take a hint at fixing their over sized barrels. Their CP pellets shoots pretty well out of my rifle but I prefer heavier pellets. I did the same thing you did with expanding the skirts but also the head of a 5.50 barracuda through a sizing die I made and a press. What was shooting 1 inch at 25 yards turned into one holes!
I LOVE your videos! They are very educational and informative.
However, since you have figured out how to make the JSB Match Diabolo Exact pellet one of the most accurate pellets for the Marauder with excellent grouping is there a reason you haven't contacted the manufacturer in Czech Republic? Maybe they could very easily make an adjustment to their dies and send the pellets for you to test. I believe that they would LOVE to be the world's #1 accurate pellet for the Marauder. It would increase their sales 10 fold.
Lightly lubing your pellets may also improve accuracy even further.
In rifles when I find a round show great accuracy I go back to the same store,right away, and get the same lot#.
That was an awesome video you constructed. A real eye opener at that, I know a lot of work went into producing this fine Tutorial . In any case you really taught me something,....Thanks.
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@Darwin Roy Yea, I've been using KaldroStream for since november myself :D
@Darwin Roy yup, have been watching on kaldroStream for since november myself =)
@Darwin Roy yup, I've been watching on kaldroStream for since december myself :)
@Darwin Roy Yea, been watching on kaldrostream for since december myself :)
i used to this kind of modfi on few of my pellets i figured the best way is use precision screw driver of .23 size and simply hold the pellet and take the pellet on screw driver inside its skirt and press while circulate it on the tip of screw driver ,than use a small size funnell to smoothen the roughed edges , simple push of fingers will do , u dont need hammer ,lead is too soft to change u can dent it chew it mold it just by pressure of ur fingers nails if u can use them rightly and that way u might need much lesser time mading all pellets ig u need
They're key-holing. The pellets are not being stabilized by the grooves. It fixes it by opening the skirt, or just using a shorter, lighter pellet. Have you measured the lands inside the barrel? Get a replacement from Benjamin, size your pellets, open the skirts.
excellent accuracy kris fairplay. was well impressed at the 60 yards modified. keep it up
now my JSB match exact king diabolos are by far the most accurate .25 cal i have ever fired through any of my .25 cal air guns.my marauder loves them my hatsan loves them and my wolverine loves them more than any other .25 cal pellet.
Incredible groups at 60 yds. Impressive.
I think your on to something. I use H&N ftt for my prowler. They print head diameter on the tin. My first two tins read 5.53mm. Got good results.
I ordered two more, and was worried when I saw a new label, and printed size read 5.54mm. I noticed them going in the breech requiring more push. I was surprised to see my group tighten up, a lot.
John Tempest Pellet size is critical and must be printed on the retail tin, I often find this is often not the case, my old model Daystate must have 4.52 anything else is scrap lead, I used Bisley Magnum since gun was new, my search for them from non firearm outlets was very frustrating, I called with a firearm dealer who went through a huge catalogue and found them,but he has to purchase 50 tins, which understandably he can't do! However he found another brand JSB with the same specifications where he can buy single tins, I will gladly try these, too many variables in air gunning especially when air rifles are so expensive!
Great vid Kris, don’t listen to the negative dude. I love analytical videos like this. Keep up the good work.
Are you happy with the LW? 23.8 inches must leave you with only one baffle--has the noise increased much?
The sizer looks like a well-made product, and it would definitely be faster if all the pellets fell into the holes easily without too much time spent shaking it around. Unfortunately, it appears to be a pellet shrinker only, but I could be wrong. It didn't say anything about the tool expanding them first before shrinking them to size.
What you have there sir are a phenomenon called spiraling pellets. Those thousandths are what are making them less accurate. It's hard to explain but what it is when the pellets skirt is a tiny bit to small or large for the barrel. Thus creating a funky spin. Now you know that your gun likes the larger skirted pellets. If needing a reference EDgunusa and his pellet sorting video will help explain more.
I have a gen 2 Marauder shoots the 18,13 JSB's you tried here at the end excellent. My Hatsan AT-44 Tactical QE also shoots them amazingly accurate.
+Michael Procenzano My Gen 2 marauder refuses to shoot any Benjamin pellet accurate be it my Gen2 .25 or Gen2 .22
Do try the H&N Barracuda match 21.65 grain pellet before you change barrel.I have found that ignoring the sizes stated on the tin H&Ns always fit tighter in the barrel compared to JSBs.I have 4PCPs but 26 springers so i feel the fit of the pellet.
Kris, I will be shooting the exact pellets you are shooting in the video. My .22 pellet rifle and my .22 pellets both read 5.5 MM. I found some pellet sizers being sold on ebay today. The problem I am having is the pellet sizers come in 4 sizes (5.50, 5.51, 5.52, 5.53.) . how do I know which is the right size for these pellets? I was hoping with your exact precise measuring you might be able to tell me. I sure would appreciate it. Thank You!
Use a drill press to modify your pellets, setting the amount of down travel and mount the BB in the head of an allen cap screw.
Is not in danger of damaging the pellet? It is better that the manufacturer knows this modification. Greetings from Mexico
wiegh ur pellets m8 . there cn be a 1 grain difference in a pack of h&n ftt and jsb ive heard have similar wieght variations . that will be costing u the up down on your group size . also look on the bk of the tin on the barcode thart gives the true head size . thnks for taking the time to make a vid and help the community . big up from across the pond
Why didn't you buy 5.52 0r 5.53 the options are there for barrel tolerances. Or kinda think buy over sized and pass through a pellet sizer to bring them down if needed. Measures twice cut once kinda thinking
Since you seem to have a machine shop, and all the mod seems to do is expand the skirt, why not machine a swage for a reloading press? I think it would be more consistent.
Hi Guys, my Mrod .22 will shoot the JSBs shoot a dime size group but put those same JSBs in my Airforce condor and you have a tack driver able to hit parts of the same starting hole shot. HN Hollow points .22 in my Mrod is also a take driver. Your Maurader should be able to shoot dime size or less groups at 60 yards with rare flyers. I would consider turning up your hammer spring abit to get more FPS out of your airrifle. Heavy pellets like JSB need more power behind them for consistant accuracy. Just my experience.
Great video! Impressed by your thoroughness. Thank you.
This should be shown to the JSB folks so they can change their molds ! Its amazing the difference. Have you tried this on other brands? Great videos !
I've shot 10s of thousands JSB 18.13 in .22, and 10.34 in .177, I use them in benchrest competition's and NEVER had a problem, don't blame the tools.
I have not been able to find any of the 18.1 in anything but 5.52. None of my tins have the size listed anywhere. Another problem is that .01mm is actually smaller than .001 inch. The difference in head diameter that I saw between the first two pellets was .002 inch. Mathematically, if (big IF) the first tin were 5.51's, and with the .002 difference I saw, then the second tin should have been something like 5.56. I am thinking that it is more of a quality-control issue on JSB's part.
I think it would be easier to buy pellets that shoot better through your marauder. I have found that my marauder .25 loves the crosman pellets. I have tried other brands and they don't shoot as well.
I also noticed that your pellet speed went up to about 635fps. When shooting the Beeman, they were going far slower than the JSBs. Very odd considering they are far lighter. I would conclude your gun prefers a large head/skirt combination and higher speeds.
The JSB's have a much higher Ballistic Coefficient than the Beeman. (.034 for the JSB and .022 for the Beeman). The chronograph readings you see in this video are taken at about 60 yards, but at the muzzle, the velocity using the same gun & same tune average about 780 for the JSB's, whereas the Beeman is faster at around 844 fps. Results may vary depending upon the gun and it's specific tune, but given enough yardage, the 18.1 JSB's will eventually overtake the 14.66 Beeman.
The 18.1 grain JSB Diabolo Exact made a 3-shot average of 780.4 ft/s at 1-yard from the muzzle of the Marauder.
after reading all the rhetoric below, I had two thoughts how many pellets have been put through that rifle?(possible dirty barrel) and check the grain weights of each tin of pellets,in a tin of 500 .22 cal I have had deviations of 2.2 grains.Try to separate by weight then wash and re- lube your pellets(bullet lube not oil) make sure the lube dries overnight to stop dieseling.try with different power settings.good luck happy shooting
Actually, he is not "shooting @ 640fps"- he is impacting the target down range where the chrony is located at the mentioned velocity ...
i think it may be a barrel problem at 60 yards all the groups were poor, i have rapid 7 and a huntsman and they both group under 1inch at 60 yards, but thanks for sharing,
And I agree, at least with the barrel I used up to this point, that a larger (tighter) pellet is more accurate. The Beeman FTS that was the most accurate .22 in my previous video "Accuracy & Energy Test" measures about .218 inch at the head which would make them a true 5.53-5.54mm. The latest batch of 18.1 JSB's (500 tin) I recently purchased from Pyramid Air are still measuring about .216 which would make them 5.49. A true 5.52mm should be at least .217 inch--yet to fin a 18.1 JSB that large.
You could try removing your shroud and baffels to remove the potential of your pellets clipping.
H&N Field Target Trophy pellets in 5.53mm skirt diameter is what the .22 cal. Marauder likes.
Hi
seems your gun prefers a .22 with a larger skirt ? also did you give the barrel a light clean with a pull through and then re lead with 20-30 pellets before testing each batch/brand, if not this could be your problem. Another thing is different batches of the same pellet can vary greatly, batch number is usually on a sticker on the bottom of the tin, so different batches can be like shooting different brands.
I wonder what would the groups look like if you'd done the same test using a fx or an air arms pcp. without any pellet mod.
Ah I just looked it up, they don't do another head size with this pellet. they do 5.50, 5.51, 5.52 in 16 grain. These probably sell more at least in Europe. An 18 grain pellet just means a worse trajectory when you have to live with a power limit
I would clean the barrel, put a good few pellet's down range. (same make) Try your test on ONE type of pellet. You could try that with the others, but start from cleaning again, and running the barrel in, again. I use JSB Diablo, but not the heavy. Great in my gun. I am not an expert, so bare with me. A friend of mine has the same gun as mine, but not as accurate with the JSB's. We have tried each other's gun's and pellets. His gun and pellet's are fine with me shooting, and vice versa. Good luck.
TedsHoldOver (here on YT) did an accuracy test on the .25 marauder. He stated/showed a "copper coated pellet" that the marauder loved. Might take a look at it. But well done on your vids. Very well done
do you not think it might just be the gun is shooting with too much fpe at 60 yards due to the light weight of the pellet so it is destabilizing mid flight. you should get some slow motion scope can footage and it will clarify this as even after the 'modification' @ 60yds the group is still very large. the ability of getting a group under 1" at that range should be possible.
It's like carpet squares, each batch is a slightly different color and have batch numbers on the box.
Pellets are the same, however they never have a batch number on the tin.
Of course all pellets have subtle weight differences and skirts have small nicks too and are dirty with sworf.
Match shooters, wash lubricate and sort by weight, extremists also view with a USB microscope.
As for shooting a wabbit who cares.
Kris, hope you are still shooting air guns. Great video. I want to try expansion of my pellet skirts after a statistical analysis found wider skirts (as estimated by Yrrah roll results) reduce shot spread. How did you make your pedestal? Any guidance for folks like me that don't have access to a machine shop?
Excellent video and test. I didn't read every bodies comments but have you tried the JSB Exact 15.8s? I shoot them in an Airgun Tech Vulcan and they 1 hole at 25 yards. I have hit small English Sparrows at 60 plus yards with them. Maybe your gun doesn't like the heavier ones. Just a thought. I have actually modified many pellets in a similar way you did without much result. I think head diameter is also very important. Anyway, excellent video!! Thank you
Are jsb like the air arms pellets come in 2 sizes 5.52/5.51 I always found the slightly bigger ones grouped finger nail size and small ones went wild maybe you need to try a few different brands good vid very interesting
Its funny that the JSB are around 20 fps faster than the Beeman while weighing nearly 4grs more?
wow, never seen pellets keyhole before . two on the paper on the left size at 0:58 are keyholed(for those who dont know a keyhole is when a projectile destabilizes and hits the target sideways)
Again, enjoyed your review, and time spend putting this together. Thanks much from a fellow Washington res...
I noticed on the final test the bulls eyes were doing 648 fps and the low fliers were all below 610 fps.
jsb exact jumbo heavy 5,53 18,1 grain and jsb jumbo express 14,4 grain are the most common
jsb's here in greece.... there are some HN's 5,53 very good too and the AA pellets in 5.52 are good too...!!!
i can't post u a link to see but i think it wouldn't be hard to get...isn't there a forum for airguners to ask others?
Have you tried fire Lapping?That’s what I did with my .22 marauder And that helped my accuracy tremendously at 50 yards I was getting around a half inch to three-quarter inch group if you’re interested on what I did please ask me what grit i used I’ll be more than glad to help I have knowledge😎😎
@taemard I ordered a new barrel for the .22 from Crosman. It took them several weeks to get it shipped out. I am hoping that is a good sign--like maybe a batch for a new and improved design that finally got finished. Slim chance, I know; but either way, it will be exciting to give the pellets you mentioned, as well as a few others, a second chance. (I tested the Crosman Premier and the Predator Polymag in one of my previous videos.)
Crosman Premier Hollowpoints work great in my .22 Marauder.
I know there are rimfire shooters out there that when they want to get the most accuracy out of a box o' gun food, they weigh each one and measure each one and separate them into groups within a batch. Would following a similar process for pellet/air rifle food have the same results? I know in your other video, about 3/10 shots were flyers. That would lead me to believe you could eliminate some, if not all of them by weighing/measuring them beforehand. What do you think?
seems like the real issue might be the crown on the barrel
keep these vids up love thus type of shit
Guess your inaccurate batch came from a different machine at the factory. Thanks for the review. You have some serious patience.
Perhaps the machines that made the pellets were worn out and they modified it after they made your old tin.
Great video thanks for the hard work and clarity. It's given me some ideas 👍
I tell ya, as far as .177 pellets go, the best Ive used is the RWS superdome 8.3g, these are deadly accurate in my 1200 ruger...... They are cheaper to by thru wal-mart, especially if you use in store pickup.....
Excelent test, congratulations.
just buy the right headsize 5.50 to 5.53 jsb and HNN field target goes up to 5.55
Try some cheep o's I'm using Daisy precision max premium grade .22 / 14grn/ head .215 / skirt .225 flat nosed, they do make pointed. In my tuned B-3, the thin skirt, seals wonderfully and the soft lead grabs the rifling, the pellets have a graphite coating, there going for about $3.00 for 250.
That is before you spend lots of cash
After more than a decade I have stumbled across your video, I hesitate to say you might try a better springer, My JSB's unwashed unsorted unmodified fly really well out of all sorts of odd and random air guns. AA prosport, Bam 40,cometa star, bsa airsporter bsa superstar etc etc.
Thanks for the comment, but I am trying to understand why portrait vs landscape would make any difference in credibility. So your saying that if the modified pellet was on the left and unmodified was on the right (or vise versa) that you would not have been able to take the video as seriously as the way I did it with over/under?
my weihrauch hw 97 would do a sub 1 inch group at 50m bench rested, i would suggest you try air arms field diablo pellets
Nice Video! Thx for showing! :-)
Great video, Thanks!
Cool tool you made! 👍
thanks for the video. in my opinion, jsb pellet has been very inconsistent between batch. have a look at the bottom of the tin and record the batch number. either its a batch number or perhaps the machine batch. in .177 heavy exact, i find that the batch 0 and 2 would be the most consistent. ive tried it on different gun, hw100 and cricket. both gun shows the same result. have you tried running it at higher speed? with jsb, i find skirt expansion during the flight inside the barrel is very important. ive tested the jsb king, and ive even tested it between the perfectly round skirt and the one i bent/dented. they almost gave same result and i believe due to pellet expansion. try running it closer to 950 or even 1000 at the muzzle? anyway awesome vid mate
from what i heard JSB is very concious about things like these so you might want to mail them that information. Who knows, they might have a look at their machines/batches and resolve this problem.
God this would drive me mad brother. For the bad ones I would keep my ranges down and use them off on plinking. Regards Cliff.
If I had a machine shop like yours, I would have made my own pcp air rifle. I'd use a Lothar Walther barrel.
@BeyondNeptune I would be interested to know just what causes the size differences. Do the casting dies actually wear out? Sometimes I wonder if the larger pellets I measured that shot so much better were actually borderline scrap, and the smaller were closer to their ideal size. If dies were wearing out, wouldn't the pellets from those dies be larger?
Kris Minnear - short answer for everyone is, yes, dies can wear out. BUT that takes so many thousands of uses that it really isn't a factor. What IS a factor is changes in the alloy used. Pure lead will yield one diameter, and adding a trace of another metal (tin or antimony or etc), will give a slightly different diameter from the same die. The heat that the dies operate at will also give subtle differences in diameter, as will the pressure of inserting the lead into the dies. Cold forming VS hot forming, and so on. What can I say? These are facts.
Good video.
I really dislike JSB's system of naming their pellets; when I made this video, I wasn't sure what to call them. According to the schulzdiabolo site you noted (thanks), the 18.1 grain I use are "Exact Jumbo Heavy" and they only list 5.52. JSB also makes "Exact Jumbo" (not heavy) which are supposedly only 15.9 grain. It is this pellet that is available in 5.50, 5.51, and 5.52 head sizes. I haven't tried this lighter pellet; I don't think it is quite as popular with Marauder owners.
so when are you going to make the finishing video?
"BB" is actually a size of birdshot used in shotguns and is listed as being .180 inch. The BB's I used in the video to spread the skirt of the .22 pellets are the common steel ones used for modern day BB guns. They actually measure closer to .172 inch which ironically is closer to "B" sized birdshot--listed as .170 inch.
The chrono is set up at the target, not the muzzle. Maybe also useful :)
rule of thumb,find the most accurate pellet and shoot nothing else.it saves a head ache trying to figure out why your gun is shooting off.also,bench vise the gun.target bullseye,shoot 1 pellet.keeping the gun scoped on the bullseye,now move cross hairs to the pellet hole.when hairs are on pellet hole,bring gun/scope back to bullseye and shoot again.you should be very close.repeat the steps until you are spot-on.you will find 'fliers' once in a while but do not correct scope until all other causes are ruled out..causes could also be wind/etc.i use H&N.
Good job
Experiments are very useful
Thanks
thanx for the great effort
As discussed below, head size is pretty critical when it comes to accuracy. Don't believe what it says on the tin either! My last tin of .177 JSB Exacts were supposedly 4.52mm, but the entire tin, as measured with my PelletGage, were 4.50 or 4.49. My Daystate rifles (a MK3 and a Pulsar) will shoot 4.51, 4.52 (preferred) and 4.53 very well, but 4.50 and smaller won't group well at all.