I highly recommend playing players like MEP, they will exploit your groundstroke weaknesses, if you are not technically sound on your strokes specially on the forehand and you can not dictate play in a consistent fashion you will never beat MEP. I mean there are other ways to beat him but he is a good barometer to see where your strokes are at. If you want to move to the next level you have to beat players like MEP consistently. Top Knot did not play bad at all, but it showed the limitations in his game. He should look at this and look at what he needs to improve. Just my two cents. Great job guys
Agreed. MEP showed that many players under pressure have problems hitting a volley and overhead with conviction. by just "pushing" the ball in, you just become a sitting duck at the net. if you are not going to put the ball away at the net, then why bother come to the net and become exposed? When MEP was in trouble, he just lob it or hit it high. it does not need to be a good lob because top knot won't kill it. the threat is neutralized and the point starts all over again. Top Knot took risks to set up this winning opportunity and just gave it back to MEP for free.
MEP is weak coming to the net. When he leaves balls short, it’s a good idea to counter with another drop shot. I’ve seen other players win many points like that. He’s really good at running sideways. Not so much approaching the net or retreating back to the base line. Countering with drop shots also takes away his lobs and passing shots
@@ARMANDO17able Exactly. Drop the drop....but that's a shot many players don't have, especially if Ben's drop has a lot of spin on it. The players who beat MEP all employed at least a couple of drop shots, and FOREHAND SLICES. TopKnot doesn't seem to have the slice forehand in his repertoire. 50 year old used it beautifully against Ben. When Ben hits you that nasty little crosscourt slice to your forehand and you're not in a good position, just use his trick and neutralize it with a forehand slice of your own into the open court. This will give you time to get back into defensive position. I would also use the lob against him Top Knoat said at the beginning he was going to be patient, but he didn't seem to do that in the first set. He played a good second set.....and his overhead at 4-4 30-30 looked like it might have caught the line....
I'd recommend a few strategies that MEP does very well and others should absolutely use too. They work against most recreational players: 1. When in trouble, hit a lob to reset the point. 2. Move your opponent not only left and right, but also back and forth. 3. Focus more on your shot's placement than power. Especially against someone who can redirect power well. 4. Being fit always helps, more so in singles than in doubles.
Half the footwork is missing, more coaching is needed. You can tell when they get that certain ball and they try to stand there all flatfooted to try to drive at it.
Tired of MEP being seen as a lazy hacker with no technique. He just rarely hits topspin shots, which are the bread and butter of most players. But his strokes are very precise, and he runs to every ball. Not an easy thing to do. He earns all his wins.
Agreed and I've never seen him as lazy hacker. He has technique - just not 'classic' - whatever that really means.. And btw, McEnroe, Connors (forehand), Borg (Backhand), Santoro, I can name plenty more - they didn't use 'classic' technique either. They used core 'PRINCIPLES' like timing, accuracy, triple vision, etc. I can't say it enough. Tennis not a bodybuilding or beauty pageant show. It's a hit the ball into the court one more time and win the point game.
@@cldavis33 Well said. Almost all the great players did something unorthodox.....and then it becomes the orthodox, because coaches figure it out and copy it. But developing a new style is what creates champions......Nadal's forehand follow-through was completely unorthodox, as was his grip. Federer's forehand straight arm, not bent) and hopping step were unorthodox, as was his use of the slice forehand. Borg, Evert and Connors were all two handed backhanders who played from the baseline when everyone else was a serve and volleyer with one-handed back hands. Agassi, Pam Shriver, and Chang used oversize rackets, and Agassi's ground strokes were something completely new. Shriver hit slices on both wings! Lendl's forehand was unique and new at the time. Becker landed on the wrong foot when he served. Courier's stokes were unique, taken from baseball. The Williams sisters use oversize racquets and hit with open stance backhands....You gotta be an original somewhere....
@@joemarshall4226 That is true. One thing few people did was copy McEnroe's serve (I think). I only saw him at the tail end of his career, but I don't recall many recreational players copying his service motion.
MEP is a perfect example of how tennis can, and is supposed to be, a simple game. With totally simple and unorthodox strokes, he practices 3 fundamentals of the game: early racket preparation for groundstrokes, watching the ball through contact, and has a talent for prudent shot selection. Most folks may think he is a basic player, I'd say he mostly wins in the 4.5-5.0 range (dont know his actual ranking) with that mastery of those fundamental principles. Well done!
You is correct. MEP is 9-1 in 4.5 singles. In future matches (being edited) we have him play against players who play both 4.5 and 5.0 level (most have winning record at 4.5 and a less winning record at 5.0).
@@joshuamann7788 being in the top 10% of recreational tennis players (4.5 is top 10%), is pretty far. One could argue and say it could take you to top 10 in world with 2 wins off of Federer (Santoro).
@@TennisTrollChannel then again I don't see to much recreational tennis in my area. I mostly see college students and highschoolers working their way towards scholarships so it depends on area ig
I've been inspired by MEP serve and want to mix that into my game vs the usual topspin-slice serve. It reminds me of Kerber's serve and how no one can consistently attack it. Very effective up to 5.0 level.
This is a great example of the importance of fitness in tennis. 80% of points were lost purely b/c topknot was gassed and put forth lazy shots or poor form (he clearly is a good player, just struggled). Would love to play MEP, he's a great defensive player and doesn't use the ticky tack shots a lot of guys with this style employ. Great match to learn from. Thanks for sharing! Also kudos to topknot for remaining engaged and not getting negative, great sportsmanship.
Thanks TT for these videos and your work with Essential Tennis. I just played a guy in my league that is so similar to MEP; left handed, slicing and dicing, great athlete. I knew exactly what to do based your past videos. Got an easy win. Thanks again TT!!!
Couple of thoughts. MEPs serve clearly has more zip on it. Nice work! If top knot was better at the net, he’d have probably won. There were so many points lost at the net that I’m sure he was kicking himself for.
Prematch thoughts. MEP is the favorite, as I remember Topknot to have a somewhat unstable game. It'll be interesting to see if MEP gets in a lot of drop shot & lob combos and if there's a first effect of the video on the 5 common mistakes at the 4.5 level. Stats Topknot W 14 | 28 b4 f4 f3 a s v7 v3 O3 s v5 s f3 f8 O8 |f3 f7 a f5 f11 v7 v7 b3 b2 f13 s s v11 s f3 v8 v3 v7 f3 v9 b5 b2 b6 f6 a b5 b4 b2 E 19 | 36 fp4 b6 f8 f3 b8 v5 b3 b5 b5 v4 v4 f3 v5 f3 df v5 v3 f4 b2 |df O9 df v7 f3 df f3 f3 f2 O7 b5 O5 b3 f7 f6 v5 f5 df b2 f2 b2 f3 b3 f3 O9 f2 b2 v3 v7 b3 O5 v3 O9 b2 f6 b6 MEP W 13 | 13 L9 s L6 s s fp5 s s fp7 L8 d4 f3 d5 |fp8 f5 b7 L9 s d3 fp7 s s f3 s L5 s E 3 | 14 f5 L4 d10 | f6 b2 d4 f14 b4 f3 f6 d2 f14 b2 df f8 d3 f11 Interpretation MEP has definitely added something to his game, namely that serve on which he has been working with Crunch Tennis youtube coach. Previously we have seen his serve was difficult to attack but not to defend against. In this match he hit 10 winners with it. To do that, at this age, bringing a newly acquired technique into match play, shows to me that MEP is probably a 4.5 player regardless of his unorthodox game and could easily take an orthodox game even higher, being so talented and apt at learning. As for Topknot, my almost namesake but not look- or soundalike, strong serving today and overall play. Here are some W/E stats to think about: serve 9/5; forehand 12/19; backhand 9/14; volley 10/10; overheads: 2/5. As mentioned last time, technically you have an early take back on the forehand, which may affect its reliability. OTOH, 8 of those 19 errors are 3rd ball forehands, so it's probably also a matter of intention (still also a matter of timing, there's less time after the serve).
10/10 on the volleys?! Wow, that’s why the 2nd set was so good. Most players get caught dialing it back against MEP. Credit to TK for adapting, and going aggressive.
MEP's serve has improved, I saw him train with crunchtime coach channel. Overtime if he improve his mechanics, it will be a greatb addition as a weapon.
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In alot of these exchanges, these playets dont have the full footwork patterns to deal with all the different kind of balls, so its no wonder they can only hit half of the balls and then they get the difficult balls and start making lots of easy mistakes with them BECAUSE HALF THE FOOTWORK IS MISSING. They have to get MORE COACHING to learn the rest of the footwork patterns for those balls.....
@Sally Kingston thank you for pointing that out. Three of us looked at it but we all missed it. One day, we would like to have the videos edited professionally if the channel continues to grow.
I think the lack of any pace/power on Topknot's volleys were the deciding factor. He just couldn't put balls away at net. Also, it can be deceptively tiring to play net. Having to hit many approach shots, volleys, and overheads can take a major toll. If you attack MEP, it has to be with full force. Anything below that energy level will backfire. Overall, good match by both players! TopKnot did play better in the 2nd set. Nice tweener at 7:43. MEP is just too solid. His serve did seem to have a little bit more pop 👍
Having the power and movility of TopKnot the only way to beat MEP is by also having a decent net game; just by comming to the net regularly and effectively I think MEP would have no chance against a consistent player with some power. But you know, it is easier said than done.
I'd say his serve and ground strokes are 4.0, but his movement speed, footwork and volleys are 3.0. If you don't have good movement in tennis, than you have to rely on ball predictability and he had a hard time gauging where the ball was going.. to his credit, his opponent is completely unorthodox.
Hsieh Su-Wei, female MEP, will be playing Osaka in the AO quarters. Hsieh Su-wei is an amazing talent. All self-taught with no formal training because of family was poor. Hsieh is the role model and champion for all club players.
@@TennisTrollChannel her father taught her. he wasn't even a tennis player. look at Hsieh's two hand forehand grip. It is a two handed backhand grip on the forehand side. Hsieh is sliding the right wrist up on he forehand and sliding down on the backhand. very weird. Her father taught her the wrong stuff. haha
Based on what I've seen on this channel, 4.5 seems to be somewhat elastic. Virtually everyone has a decent serve, but aside from that the quality varies a lot. Btw, 1:52, that's clearly in (inside the line). Play it at x0,5 speed.
4.5 is somewhat of a wide range between the top players and the ones that were bumped from 4.0. It’s the top 10% of recreational tennis players; however, there is some difference between a person in the top 10% vs a person in the top 5% in my opinion.
MEP - brilliant as always. I watched the lesson you took on the serve. I noticed in a BIG way your next match you utilized some of that, and your serve had a LOT more pop on it watching on video of course. You have more power than I thought after watching that lesson. Seriously dude, you had some server really popping during that lesson. You are now using a 'quick' serve and getting some of what he coached you on to get more pace on that serve. If you slow it down, and keep that racket head up, and then release with your speed it will work - I can see it, I can hear it too. Don't be bitter at people wanting to help. We are all rec players, we all want to improve 1% if we can. You are clearly improving and it makes us in the 'peanut gallery' cheer because you know, none of us are ex-Division 1 players either.
MEP wants viewers to provide suggestions and help him improve. It's a major reason he's willing to post many matches on our channel for all to see and comment - he reads all the comments. With some of the older videos, there were a handful of comments that were inappropriate trolling regarding his serve and l had to delete a couple of them due to poor choice of language. His response was likely to those particular comments.
@@TennisTrollChannel Totally get it and appropriate Troll. I personally would also give them the middle finger so to speak. MEP is improving like we all want to. None of us here are Pros. I give Kudos to anyone working to improve any aspect of their game. Period.
Love this match. MEP is getting more E with a stronger first serve. And for the the rest of us who like to come to the net, have to stick those over heads. I just saw that analysis guy’s video and makes perfect sense. Also, In this case, same with the volleys.
One of the parts of MEP's game that I havn't seen talked about much is his ready position and how it relates to his groundstrokes. Although he doesn't grip his racquet with two hands, he still keeps it forward and low. So he is ready for practically any ball he'll get. Plus, on top of this, he doesn't have a huge swing, so he doesn't need to worry as much about being late or off balance. Problem with having a more modern technique, is we add so much more movement. So much more can go wrong. If we are off on our balance/body position, our shot is affected more, our timing is affected more. I actually think topknot has great groundstrokes. He hit some incredible shots and was able to add pace to a lot of balls without losing control. I think it's mostly his prep, which coincides with what he said about a lighter racquet and the difference in his game we saw when he switched. When you are moving into the court so much it just makes it that much more important. I know there is a lot of people that give advice on here and I honestly do not feel like I am a better player than him, the only reason I was able to bring this out is because it kind of hit home when he was talking about racquet weight. I was having wrist pain and trouble with being late on my strokes and wondered if it was related. So I compared video of my strokes to the pros to see why. And, I noticed their prep is so much simpler and they use their non hitting hand to grip the racquet and rotate their body until the racquet is pretty much 90 degrees to the side. I tried that and I couldn't believe the difference. There is so much extra force you put on your wrist if you swing your racquet back quickly with just one hand. It is actually ridiculous. I made the adjustment and my racquet feels so much lighter, and my wrist pain has started going away. It's also become much easier for me to get my racquet lower and hit on balance when I'm prepping more with both hands. Stupid how something seemingly small can make such a big difference. I feel like the same is happening to him. And in different way, he was not prepping by holding the racquet forward enough when he closed the net. Was just too close to the body and the contact point on the volley ended up being farther back than he was expecting. Honestly think he could fix those issues in no time at all and be an incredibly strong player. That serve is so meaty compared to his older videos. I think he could really upset some tennis troll players. ;)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. The unit turn (believe that is what most coaches call it) it key to hitting a solid shot. My coach would tell me over and over to get my racket back and ready quicker. Never can have it back too early, but having it late will cause all sorts of problems. Once the unit turn is made, the kinetic energy chain is likely flow more naturally as we uncoil.
Got beat by a Spanish MEP yesterday. Brutal game. Felt like I played well, just missed a few volleys / smashes late in the match along with my composure
Bring him forward..drop shots.short balls to wide ad side of service line, or short balls wide deuce side of service line. By definition, pushers don’t want to move their feet! Bring them forward to get them out of their pushy comfort zone! Bring them forward to pass them via lobs or via open angles. Bring them forward to make them work.
I'm surprised TopKnot won a single game let alone do as well as he did in the second set. I knew he'd lose after the second point in the match. MEP's serve definitely has improved.
TopKnot was losing 90% of the points at the net but he persisted with that strategy. Plus his lack of fitness showed because he was completely gassed like 4 games in.
To be precise about the points won/lost at the net: TK hit 10 volley and 2 overhead winners, against 10 and 5 errors. MEP hit 4 passing and 5 lob winners, against 1 lob error. That's 13 - 24 from TK's perspective, so rather 66% than 90% MEP's drop shots were 3-4 today, shifting it back to 61% I agree a losing strategy should be abandoned but in MEP's you don't have a choice: with his drop & lob strategy you'll have to volley and smash. You won't battle it out on consistency either, so you have to go corner to corner and finish at the net.
@@knotwilg3596 5 lob winners - wow! That is a very telling stat. Either MEP is the best lobber ever or TK's approaches and volleys are lacking some effectiveness.
And i wpuld say for MEP's opponent, his is name a bad player, but is not in adequate shape for singles in Atlanta. Doubles might be a better game for him while he improves his cardio.
What boggles me is that most players, aside from MEP, are not really solid in their ground play. Yet, someone as TopKnot has a great serve and all... Curious how tennis is being tought in the US. In the Netherlands (and Europe mostly) we have a lot of clay courts which would help I guess.
As a near fellow countryman, I agree the US players have comparately strong serves. Although Nikola Aracic is firm on the serve "not being a throwing motion" I do have the impression the importance of baseball in the US culture is helping them getting it right.
I can't speak for all Americans, but with hard/fast courts the most dominant surface here, the Serve + 1 tactic (big serve, big forehand) can be very effective. I do wish we had more clay courts here as this would force players to construct points much better and not rely too much on power to win points.
I used to despise MEP's game, but I understood that it is an efficient game at this 4.5 level, as I myself have lost to similar players because I didn't have the tactical understanding of the game that MEP has. One thing that catches my attention is that he runs A LOT and catches balls at angles, so playing his game with soft balls is asking for a loss.
I'm guessing the additional weight helps keep it more balanced with off-centered shot. I did hit with the racket afterwards and it felt softer on the arm.
@@TennisTrollChannel I could see it helping to dampen the vibration, but having the added weight in the very center of the point of twisting (draw an imaginary line from the center of the butt cap to the top of the racquet) shouldn’t have any significant effect on twisting forces. Adding weight at 9 and 3:00 definitely would help that because those are the points farthest from the center. It’s pretty well known that adding weight at those points increases stability which is the efficient way of saying “lessens the amount the racquet twists in your hand on ball impact”.
It's a poor workman who blames his tools. Unless you're in the top500 players in the world, your level of play is not affected by your racquet, strings, or balls. The only sport where people chase equipment more is golf.
A very entertaining match. TK played well but too many unforced errors and needs to work on his overheads. MEPs lobs are exquisite and his serves do look a lot stronger now. Well played guys!
Weak overheads are a common theme on this channel among 4.5s and their one of the reasons why so many people struggle against MEP, who employs the high ball to great effect.
@@SpiritDonkey They are 4.5. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. If you think they shouldn't be, then you should write a letter to the body responsible for the ranking system, pointing out that ranks shouldn't be based on results but on style.
Spirit Donkey I like watching someone with an unconventional technique holding his own and often beating someone who plays in the "correct" style. Thanks to Tennis Troll for putting this on You Tube. There's only one Tennis Troll!
Can't wait for the Tennis troll cinematic universe fights vs the essential tennis cinematic universe in Georgia. Please set up up Mep, Tennis troll and wanna be pro vs, Mark, Scott and Ian respectively. It would be epic!!
Top Knot was in the position exactly where MEP wanted him. Make him play in no man’s land. If you try to hit hard the balls will go long so you try to take the pace off and give MEP more in control and let him do his magic. Just my opinion Top knot can hit a little bit flatter on ground strokes and maybe can work on the depth also . Easier said than done so kudo to both players and great match none the less. MEP continue his legacy as usual.
tennistroll, what are you using to film this? Where I play has playsight and the quality is much worse with that and the court is fisheyed from the cameras
Just a great example of how MEP's game frustrates. This was the first time I've seen Topknot play, and for about a set and a half I'm sitting here thinking "no way this guy is a 4.5"... but the realization later was that most of those unforced errors in the first set were a result of footwork and the expectation of how a ball normally comes back from players of that level. But then he started to figure things out and looked exactly like you'd expect a 4.5 to look, hitting tons of sharp winners off short balls and setting up points better. I definitely get the feeling that if there were a rematch, MEP would have a much tougher time of it. Still, a really fun match to watch and some great playing from both players!
Man I'd loved to play against Ben but since I'm based in Europe, no dice! But at least we got a copy of him in our club, I was 1:63:4 down when I got my self injured. You need to earn every point and it's like looking into a looking glass, every weakness of yours is exposed. Thumps up to Ian @essentialtennis, he made me change my view about players like Ben.
It's literally like watching a boa constrictor squeeze the life out of a larger and seemingly more dangerous animal for hours. There was a point right at the beginning of the second set when top knot literally looked back at the camera with that "seriously this is really being recorded" look on his face.
MEP, watch the foot faults bro. I also just realized that you have McEnroe's forehand (I'm guessing that's because of the grip, but it's unique). Well played!
@@TennisTrollChannel This was the standard forehand for many in wood racquet days: Point the racquet back, hit the ball, point the racquet forward. The grip is actually an "australian" grip...very similar to a continental, but the base of the index finger is kind of between bevels....at least in Mac's case. ...not sure about Ben This is what Ellsworth vines (great player of the 30s) said when he analyzed the 70s game.
Did I just see Topknot hit a tweener? It was a nice shot, too! Ha ha ha! W onders is a good never cease... I spent some time trying to put myself in Topknot’s place wondering how I would handle MEP, answer: not well. Honestly, it felt suffocating. I’m glad I’m not in that situation often.
I really like the mechanics of Top Knot’s ground strokes! One of the most mechanically sound and simple looking forehand techniques I’ve seen on this channel. You can tell he likes to hit a lot of balls. That being said the rest of his game needs some help. His overhead technique is good but he looks very uncomfortable. His net game got a bit exposed. But man I’d sure like to have that forehand!
My experience is if you can't beat them from the baseline, you have to draw them to the net and try to pass or lob them. I have had success with unorthodox players.
That's a common suggest strategy for MEP. That or run him corner to corner. Both have pros and cons. I'm guessing it depends on the player and if the person has strong drop shots/lob. Good suggestion.
Definitely draw MEP to the net with some drops and short angle slices if you have those shots. His tendency is to always drift back so he can run side to side. Also keep upper body up when hitting overhead. Kinda hunches shoulder down when hitting over head. I do that when I get tired. I get tired easily though. LOL. Nice match.
MEP got some good pace on some of those new serves.....it might look funky, but it's effective. He doesn't seem to extend his arm all the way when he serves...seems to be hitting it with a bent arm...Toss it higher and jump up to meet it, if you want to create more pace...but it's pretty effective just the way it is....
I think MEP will start to work on what you mention. Think he’s focused on getting rid of the ‘waiter tray’ and I think that is likely next step as he progresses.
@@TennisTrollChannel Did you see that link to "Chang", the guy who was number one on his 40+ 4.5 ladder in South Carolina? He had such a weird game, it made MEP look like a lesson player. I would love to see the two of them play. Chang is fast as can be, and appears to just pop everything up in the air with a little kick, and then run the next ball down. I'd chip in for the car fair if they want to get together and video a match.....
I've now watched Ben play six or seven matches. Ben's play is really solid, he's in great shape, almost always in good position and makes very few unforced errors, and hits surprisingly good passing shots, especially off the forehand side. After the first game it was clear that Ben was going to handle TopKnot. TopKnot made way too many unforced errors, continued charging the net despite his poor volleying and weak overheads. I would have liked to see him change tactics. TopKnot couldn't consistently return Ben's much improved serve. As we've seen, to defeat Ben, you need deep, crisp approach shots and crisp, accurate volleys, and a strong overhead, and most importantly, few unforced errors. TopKnot's backhand volley was awful, and poor footwork on his overheads set him up for defeat. Thanks for another fun match. Don't think I agree with TopKnot's 4.5 rating, he would be a 4.0 here on the Eastern Shore of Maryland.
haha, MEP (Most Enjoyable Person) continues to amaze. The one key about MEP is he hardly ever hits the ball long, he'll hit the net but hardly ever long. TopKnot had a good serve, 1st serve % was high, had to be over 80%, but his game otherwise lacked. MEP's serve was very good as well, 80% 1st serve in probably. It's MEP's craftiness, you want to make popcorn and watch MEP.
TopKnot - first thought after watching every single point. Topknot - you are a little LATE on almost 90% of your contact points and hear me out---- ***once you pass the service line***. for a short shot, slice, volley, overhead, doesn't seem to matter the shot. Once you pass the service line, your contact point is late - and the ball goes long. You are not hitting it too hard. It is a timing thing. You have a great game. Keep your stroke preparation more compact if you can. Blade your body more on all strokes, especially the overhead. Turn that core more in prep, and keep your racket takeback compact. Great match dude.
Thank you for providing suggestions. Sounds like TopKnot needs to be more out in front with his shots near the net. Maybe he's bringing his racket too far back resulting in a late shot?
@@TennisTrollChannel Sure thing. None of us watching knows 'why' someone is late. Too many variables. The key thing is to know in your mind, that spot. Get to it on time. It could be late decision on the contact point, the target you envision, a lot of things. Pick a target as soon as you can, pin-point the contact point and then you have a great chance to get your racket there in time regardless of the technique employed. Hope this helps. It helps me too just to put pen to paper on my own shots. I'll be working on this too. - Chuck
@@TennisTrollChannel Troll - I just want to mention after over 25 years playing hearing all the suggestions, like hit out in front more. Yes that's true . But to hit 'out front' is only a core principle---and true. Why does a person hit out front 'more'? After all these years, I really feel any contact point you aim for positionally is a matter of where you imagine that contact point to be. If it's out 'front' then you will do whatever it takes to get there. The key is in the mind. WHERE is that ideal contact point? That has to be the main thing in the forefront of the mind. The mechanics will FOLLOW. :) The timing to get there will follow.
@@TennisTrollChannel Right - we force it and are late. When we say naturally, that confuses people. Naturally needs no explanation, no coaching, no comments at all. Naturally means someone whomever it may be, understands that perfect contact point out front and get there on time because they know what time to get there.. See?
TK has really great serve and sexy tweener, but he should work really hard on both the half-volley at the net and the backhand high volley put away, coz these two shots seem to be his weakest.
TopKnot knows a lot about racquet construction and stringing, for sure. But he doesn't hit any stroke (other than his nice serve) anywhere near hard enough for the hollow core v. foam core thing to even become a factor. I understand that's his profession, but he shouldn't get hung up into thinking that is having any effect on those strokes. You gotta be hitting way whippier off both wings for that stuff to matter. As MEP has proven once again, being in really good shape and having a smart split step is what matters the more at this level.
I find these games really interesting. Is there any chance of you indicating whether the serves are 1st or 2nd serves? There don't seem to be many aces, yet I am guessing that MEP's opponents must be capable of big serves. Perhaps they are playing safe?
Thank you for reminder. I need to look into a way to note first or second serves. Unfortunately we made several videos already but with new one we can. One way to tell if to look at the speed as second serves tend to be slower. There won’t be many aces at the 4.5 level. I think there is a tendency for MEPs opponents to play it safe at times. MEP is good at blocking back fast serves; however, he rarely hits a winner off the serve. Therefore, players may feel there is less of a need to go for a big serve if a slower, safe serve is not going to attack it.
True, but MEPs unique way of hitting the ball and his ability to run down the next shot and lob it is effecting them, also, I think. US Open John said the spin on those shots really threw hm off, noting that his volleys are usually reliable.
When someone hits with under spin and you're volleying, you have to make an adjustment by opening the racket face a bit more. This will impart more height and spin on your volleys. Anyways as far as I can see no one can do drop shots, drop volleys.. mep didn't come forward once in this match!!
@@almacnamara2000 They try, but drop volleys are tough to hit off backspin shots without a lot of practice. What you say about volleying backspin shots is true, but there's more. Backspin shots tend to rise up, or even seem to "Stall". You have to really watch them and adjust right up until the last split-second. They float some times, and they die some times. The tendency is to hit them into the net. And if they have a mix of back and side spin, then you've got your hands full...lol
The underspin really effects volleys. I have a strong slice backhand and my instructor encouraged me too use it for passing shots noting that the backspin will cause anything less than a firmly struck volley to drop into the bottom of the net. He's right, it's worked that way many times.
It's weird seeing these big-serving 4.5s that are completely unable to hit (or even attempt) an overhead for a winner. If any of them could actually capitalize on mediocre MEP lobs it's not that close.
I think MEP's lobs are more difficult to hit it looks. Most drop within 1-2 feet of the base line. If so, that means the person has to hit an overhead a between the service line and baseline - that is not easy for many recreational players to consistently do.
As a big fan of knotwilg's statistical analyses of matches, I tried to teach myself his system. When I encountered some problems, I wondered whether there is some sort of "standardized" tennis stats system. I came across this: www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2015/09/23/the-match-charting-project-quick-start-guide/ I took a stab at charting this match via that system. Even though knotwilg has already provided his always stellar statistical take, I thought it might be interesting to see another angle. Because it's hard to know if a serve is the first or second (other than in double fault points, or points where I noticed a stray ball at the net during the serve), the 1st vs 2nd serve stats should definitely be read with a large grain of salt. I also had to occasionally guess at what happened when the near court player was off screen. I'm hoping the system's creator will share some of his spreadsheet formulas that present other stats, but here's the match summary that is a tab in the basic spreadsheet: MEP 6-1 7-5 TopKnot
1 Aces 3 1 Double Faults 5 93% 1st Serve In % 89% 38/52 (73%) 1st Serve Points Won 39/76 (51%) 1/4 (25%) 2nd Serve Points Won 3/9 (33%) 39/56 (70%) Service Points Won 42/85 (49%) 82/141 (58%) Total Points Won 59/141 (42%) 4/12 Break Points Won 1/1
10 Winners 25 11 Unforced Errors 51 0/0 Net Points Won 0/0
Longest rally: 13 shots (SET 2: 0-0, 40-40) Total shots: 545 Average rally: 3.9 shots Here's a link to the raw data. The summary that I cut/pasted above can also been seen on a per-set basis there if you download view the spreadsheet in some app where the macros are active: drive.google.com/file/d/10vePShlzqQrPSbnb479t860BRUIPZwL6/view?usp=sharing
@@TennisTrollChannel The stat that surprised me the most is that TK dominates the 10+ shot points. I would've thought that was MEP's bread and butter. In fact, MEP's winning percentage uniformly decreases as the points get longer, which is the opposite of what I would've guessed. This seems to imply that one of the keys to beating MEP is by making the points as long as possible -- who would ever have thought that? Not me. I'm going to map another of MEP's matches where he loses and see if this pattern is consistent.
@@repoman7804 actually I’m not too surprised and that may be due to us having played. My experience with him makes me believe MEP is not a pusher. I see him as a counter puncher. He goes for his shots - usually drop shots/shirt angles and then ends the point with a lob or passing shot. I am curious to see how the stats play out with other matches at 10+ shots.
@@TennisTrollChannel Here are all the statistical views of this match that you could ever hope for: www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20210213-B-TennisTroll-F-Mep-Topknot.html. The author of the charting system graciously ran my annotation through his analysis script on a one-time basis. Man, I wish I could see all of this info for every match I was willing to chart. That said, I'm currently annotating the MEP v USOpen John match to further hone my annotation skills, and to see the match summary like I've already provided here.
Topknot has similar play to me. Slightly better serve . A little bit worse groundstrokes, especially bh. But as me not good winning volley and smash. Dropshots I cannot judge because he didn't play. And it's so exhausting to have clean winner on volley and to make error.
![Most Exhausting Player vs The Captain Part 1 [USTA 4.5]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9gXNVS472wE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Most Exhausting Player vs The Captain Part 1 [USTA 4.5]](/img/tr.png)
Consider viewing Essential Tennis' analysis on this match: ua-cam.com/video/6ETLSzyk0qE/v-deo.html
I highly recommend playing players like MEP, they will exploit your groundstroke weaknesses, if you are not technically sound on your strokes specially on the forehand and you can not dictate play in a consistent fashion you will never beat MEP. I mean there are other ways to beat him but he is a good barometer to see where your strokes are at. If you want to move to the next level you have to beat players like MEP consistently. Top Knot did not play bad at all, but it showed the limitations in his game. He should look at this and look at what he needs to improve. Just my two cents. Great job guys
Agreed. MEP showed that many players under pressure have problems hitting a volley and overhead with conviction. by just "pushing" the ball in, you just become a sitting duck at the net. if you are not going to put the ball away at the net, then why bother come to the net and become exposed? When MEP was in trouble, he just lob it or hit it high. it does not need to be a good lob because top knot won't kill it. the threat is neutralized and the point starts all over again. Top Knot took risks to set up this winning opportunity and just gave it back to MEP for free.
MEP is weak coming to the net. When he leaves balls short, it’s a good idea to counter with another drop shot. I’ve seen other players win many points like that. He’s really good at running sideways. Not so much approaching the net or retreating back to the base line. Countering with drop shots also takes away his lobs and passing shots
@@ARMANDO17able Exactly. Drop the drop....but that's a shot many players don't have, especially if Ben's drop has a lot of spin on it. The players who beat MEP all employed at least a couple of drop shots, and FOREHAND SLICES. TopKnot doesn't seem to have the slice forehand in his repertoire. 50 year old used it beautifully against Ben. When Ben hits you that nasty little crosscourt slice to your forehand and you're not in a good position, just use his trick and neutralize it with a forehand slice of your own into the open court. This will give you time to get back into defensive position. I would also use the lob against him Top Knoat said at the beginning he was going to be patient, but he didn't seem to do that in the first set. He played a good second set.....and his overhead at 4-4 30-30 looked like it might have caught the line....
I'd recommend a few strategies that MEP does very well and others should absolutely use too. They work against most recreational players:
1. When in trouble, hit a lob to reset the point.
2. Move your opponent not only left and right, but also back and forth.
3. Focus more on your shot's placement than power. Especially against someone who can redirect power well.
4. Being fit always helps, more so in singles than in doubles.
Half the footwork is missing, more coaching is needed. You can tell when they get that certain ball and they try to stand there all flatfooted to try to drive at it.
I would like to start a petition to put MEP in the tennis hall of fame.
No need. He is already a HOF.
MEP is so beloved by the UA-cam Tennis Community! He’s a celebrity around here. 🐐
10/10 would lose to him again
I fuckin hate him
Don't know about. A very bad example for any new tennis player.
he is a joke on youtube
Tired of MEP being seen as a lazy hacker with no technique. He just rarely hits topspin shots, which are the bread and butter of most players. But his strokes are very precise, and he runs to every ball. Not an easy thing to do. He earns all his wins.
Agreed and I've never seen him as lazy hacker. He has technique - just not 'classic' - whatever that really means.. And btw, McEnroe, Connors (forehand), Borg (Backhand), Santoro, I can name plenty more - they didn't use 'classic' technique either. They used core 'PRINCIPLES' like timing, accuracy, triple vision, etc. I can't say it enough. Tennis not a bodybuilding or beauty pageant show. It's a hit the ball into the court one more time and win the point game.
@@cldavis33 Well said. Almost all the great players did something unorthodox.....and then it becomes the orthodox, because coaches figure it out and copy it. But developing a new style is what creates champions......Nadal's forehand follow-through was completely unorthodox, as was his grip. Federer's forehand straight arm, not bent) and hopping step were unorthodox, as was his use of the slice forehand. Borg, Evert and Connors were all two handed backhanders who played from the baseline when everyone else was a serve and volleyer with one-handed back hands. Agassi, Pam Shriver, and Chang used oversize rackets, and Agassi's ground strokes were something completely new. Shriver hit slices on both wings! Lendl's forehand was unique and new at the time. Becker landed on the wrong foot when he served. Courier's stokes were unique, taken from baseball. The Williams sisters use oversize racquets and hit with open stance backhands....You gotta be an original somewhere....
So true. Great comment.
@@TennisTrollChannel And then there's McEnroe, who did EVERYTHING upside down and backwards.....
@@joemarshall4226 That is true. One thing few people did was copy McEnroe's serve (I think). I only saw him at the tail end of his career, but I don't recall many recreational players copying his service motion.
I see MEP I click like.
Thank you for posting this complete match. Nice to see MEP working his magic.
Welcome. Will continue to post full matches unless it's a long one.
I’m laughing the the racquet throw from out of the shot.. and wondering why more people haven’t thrown their frame against Ben. Good stuff.
What y'all didn't see was the ball bouncing OVER the fence after landing... hence my toss
MEP is a perfect example of how tennis can, and is supposed to be, a simple game. With totally simple and unorthodox strokes, he practices 3 fundamentals of the game: early racket preparation for groundstrokes, watching the ball through contact, and has a talent for prudent shot selection. Most folks may think he is a basic player, I'd say he mostly wins in the 4.5-5.0 range (dont know his actual ranking) with that mastery of those fundamental principles. Well done!
You is correct. MEP is 9-1 in 4.5 singles. In future matches (being edited) we have him play against players who play both 4.5 and 5.0 level (most have winning record at 4.5 and a less winning record at 5.0).
Well yeah but the principles of tennis only get you so far in the game
@@joshuamann7788 being in the top 10% of recreational tennis players (4.5 is top 10%), is pretty far. One could argue and say it could take you to top 10 in world with 2 wins off of Federer (Santoro).
@@TennisTrollChannel idk in my area all the 4.5s I know would run him into the ground. I enjoy watching and all but yeah
@@TennisTrollChannel then again I don't see to much recreational tennis in my area. I mostly see college students and highschoolers working their way towards scholarships so it depends on area ig
I've been inspired by MEP serve and want to mix that into my game vs the usual topspin-slice serve. It reminds me of Kerber's serve and how no one can consistently attack it. Very effective up to 5.0 level.
Why does MEP hit such a soft first serve?
Well done Mr Ben, liked the quicker serve experimentation, competitiveness switched up to 11 as always. Thanks TT.
This is a great example of the importance of fitness in tennis. 80% of points were lost purely b/c topknot was gassed and put forth lazy shots or poor form (he clearly is a good player, just struggled). Would love to play MEP, he's a great defensive player and doesn't use the ticky tack shots a lot of guys with this style employ. Great match to learn from. Thanks for sharing! Also kudos to topknot for remaining engaged and not getting negative, great sportsmanship.
If in Atlanta area in future let us know.
@@TennisTrollChannel would love to! I’m not too far away in Raleigh.
@@thomashouston8709 excellent. Next time I’m in your area I will reach out.
Thanks TT for these videos and your work with Essential Tennis. I just played a guy in my league that is so similar to MEP; left handed, slicing and dicing, great athlete. I knew exactly what to do based your past videos. Got an easy win. Thanks again TT!!!
Excellent! Excited to read comments from viewers who are finding our channels useful with improving their tennis.
MEP is a playa! Pusher no more. Mep is hitting passing shots.
"It's going in again." If that doesn't sum up playing Ben, I don't know what does.
It's only after a few match reviews that one starts to appreciate the lethal drop & lob combo. The man has weapons, they're just not very common.
Lol
MEP is a 🎾ninja! And he squeezes the life out his opponents.
Couple of thoughts. MEPs serve clearly has more zip on it. Nice work!
If top knot was better at the net, he’d have probably won. There were so many points lost at the net that I’m sure he was kicking himself for.
I don't kick myself in those situations anymore, it's always so close I just chuckle at how good I could've been
Prematch thoughts. MEP is the favorite, as I remember Topknot to have a somewhat unstable game. It'll be interesting to see if MEP gets in a lot of drop shot & lob combos and if there's a first effect of the video on the 5 common mistakes at the 4.5 level.
Stats
Topknot
W 14 | 28
b4 f4 f3 a s v7 v3 O3 s v5 s f3 f8 O8
|f3 f7 a f5 f11 v7 v7 b3 b2 f13 s s v11 s f3 v8 v3 v7 f3 v9 b5 b2 b6 f6 a b5 b4 b2
E 19 | 36
fp4 b6 f8 f3 b8 v5 b3 b5 b5 v4 v4 f3 v5 f3 df v5 v3 f4 b2
|df O9 df v7 f3 df f3 f3 f2 O7 b5 O5 b3 f7 f6 v5 f5 df b2 f2 b2 f3 b3 f3 O9 f2 b2 v3 v7 b3 O5 v3 O9 b2 f6 b6
MEP
W 13 | 13
L9 s L6 s s fp5 s s fp7 L8 d4 f3 d5
|fp8 f5 b7 L9 s d3 fp7 s s f3 s L5 s
E 3 | 14
f5 L4 d10
| f6 b2 d4 f14 b4 f3 f6 d2 f14 b2 df f8 d3 f11
Interpretation
MEP has definitely added something to his game, namely that serve on which he has been working with Crunch Tennis youtube coach. Previously we have seen his serve was difficult to attack but not to defend against. In this match he hit 10 winners with it.
To do that, at this age, bringing a newly acquired technique into match play, shows to me that MEP is probably a 4.5 player regardless of his unorthodox game and could easily take an orthodox game even higher, being so talented and apt at learning.
As for Topknot, my almost namesake but not look- or soundalike, strong serving today and overall play. Here are some W/E stats to think about: serve 9/5; forehand 12/19; backhand 9/14; volley 10/10; overheads: 2/5. As mentioned last time, technically you have an early take back on the forehand, which may affect its reliability. OTOH, 8 of those 19 errors are 3rd ball forehands, so it's probably also a matter of intention (still also a matter of timing, there's less time after the serve).
10/10 on the volleys?! Wow, that’s why the 2nd set was so good. Most players get caught dialing it back against MEP. Credit to TK for adapting, and going aggressive.
@@Wannabe-Pro 10 winners, 10 errors, to be sure
Imma hit it until I lose
@@knotwilg3596 yea, he didn't win 9 out of 5 serves😂
@@transklutz W/E
MEP's serve has improved, I saw him train with crunchtime coach channel. Overtime if he improve his mechanics, it will be a greatb addition as a weapon.
If you would like to be entered into a drawing for a free, signed MEP shirt, consider subscribing. We’ll share a community post with info by end of February and those that respond to it will be entered into the drawing.
Great idea!!
In alot of these exchanges, these playets dont have the full footwork patterns to deal with all the different kind of balls, so its no wonder they can only hit half of the balls and then they get the difficult balls and start making lots of easy mistakes with them BECAUSE HALF THE FOOTWORK IS MISSING. They have to get MORE COACHING to learn the rest of the footwork patterns for those balls.....
@Sally Kingston thank you for pointing that out. Three of us looked at it but we all missed it. One day, we would like to have the videos edited professionally if the channel continues to grow.
I am gunning for this shirt
I think the lack of any pace/power on Topknot's volleys were the deciding factor. He just couldn't put balls away at net. Also, it can be deceptively tiring to play net. Having to hit many approach shots, volleys, and overheads can take a major toll. If you attack MEP, it has to be with full force. Anything below that energy level will backfire.
Overall, good match by both players! TopKnot did play better in the 2nd set. Nice tweener at 7:43. MEP is just too solid. His serve did seem to have a little bit more pop 👍
Good point with net play being tiring. Sprinting to net over and over and always reacting quickly is tiring.
Having the power and movility of TopKnot the only way to beat MEP is by also having a decent net game; just by comming to the net regularly and effectively I think MEP would have no chance against a consistent player with some power. But you know, it is easier said than done.
Guy in the yellow has a very good and consistent serve, but 3.5 strokes.
Someone is in yellow?
i agree with you, Henry.. i liked his serve a lot.. but his strokes, not so much
4.0 serve, 3.5 stokes, 2.0 smash and volleys in general
@@garynewcombe910 Second set wardrobe change.
I'd say his serve and ground strokes are 4.0, but his movement speed, footwork and volleys are 3.0. If you don't have good movement in tennis, than you have to rely on ball predictability and he had a hard time gauging where the ball was going.. to his credit, his opponent is completely unorthodox.
nice MEP i see the new serve creeping in!!! great job
Why you gotta do me like that
lol -
MEP goat of Tennis You Tube :)
Proof that hitting level and match play, although very related, are two completely different things.
Hsieh Su-Wei, female MEP, will be playing Osaka in the AO quarters.
Hsieh Su-wei is an amazing talent. All self-taught with no formal training because of family was poor.
Hsieh is the role model and champion for all club players.
Self taught? I didn’t know that. Amazing.
@@TennisTrollChannel her father taught her. he wasn't even a tennis player. look at Hsieh's two hand forehand grip. It is a two handed backhand grip on the forehand side. Hsieh is sliding the right wrist up on he forehand and sliding down on the backhand. very weird. Her father taught her the wrong stuff. haha
@@TennisTrollChannel check out her grip change on the youtube video "Hsieh rally and grip change".
@@williamyeh6925 I'll look it up. Sounds interesting, but it works. Heck - I wonder if some folks are starting to copy her cause she does it so well.
@@TennisTrollChannel don't tell MEP. haha
Based on what I've seen on this channel, 4.5 seems to be somewhat elastic.
Virtually everyone has a decent serve, but aside from that the quality varies a lot.
Btw, 1:52, that's clearly in (inside the line). Play it at x0,5 speed.
4.5 is somewhat of a wide range between the top players and the ones that were bumped from 4.0. It’s the top 10% of recreational tennis players; however, there is some difference between a person in the top 10% vs a person in the top 5% in my opinion.
MEP - brilliant as always. I watched the lesson you took on the serve. I noticed in a BIG way your next match you utilized some of that, and your serve had a LOT more pop on it watching on video of course. You have more power than I thought after watching that lesson. Seriously dude, you had some server really popping during that lesson.
You are now using a 'quick' serve and getting some of what he coached you on to get more pace on that serve. If you slow it down, and keep that racket head up, and then release with your speed it will work - I can see it, I can hear it too. Don't be bitter at people wanting to help. We are all rec players, we all want to improve 1% if we can. You are clearly improving and it makes us in the 'peanut gallery' cheer because you know, none of us are ex-Division 1 players either.
MEP wants viewers to provide suggestions and help him improve. It's a major reason he's willing to post many matches on our channel for all to see and comment - he reads all the comments. With some of the older videos, there were a handful of comments that were inappropriate trolling regarding his serve and l had to delete a couple of them due to poor choice of language. His response was likely to those particular comments.
@@TennisTrollChannel Totally get it and appropriate Troll. I personally would also give them the middle finger so to speak. MEP is improving like we all want to. None of us here are Pros. I give Kudos to anyone working to improve any aspect of their game. Period.
Love this match. MEP is getting more E with a stronger first serve. And for the the rest of us who like to come to the net, have to stick those over heads. I just saw that analysis guy’s video and makes perfect sense. Also, In this case, same with the volleys.
I like this comment - MEP getting more E : ]
One of the parts of MEP's game that I havn't seen talked about much is his ready position and how it relates to his groundstrokes. Although he doesn't grip his racquet with two hands, he still keeps it forward and low. So he is ready for practically any ball he'll get. Plus, on top of this, he doesn't have a huge swing, so he doesn't need to worry as much about being late or off balance. Problem with having a more modern technique, is we add so much more movement. So much more can go wrong. If we are off on our balance/body position, our shot is affected more, our timing is affected more. I actually think topknot has great groundstrokes. He hit some incredible shots and was able to add pace to a lot of balls without losing control. I think it's mostly his prep, which coincides with what he said about a lighter racquet and the difference in his game we saw when he switched. When you are moving into the court so much it just makes it that much more important.
I know there is a lot of people that give advice on here and I honestly do not feel like I am a better player than him, the only reason I was able to bring this out is because it kind of hit home when he was talking about racquet weight. I was having wrist pain and trouble with being late on my strokes and wondered if it was related. So I compared video of my strokes to the pros to see why. And, I noticed their prep is so much simpler and they use their non hitting hand to grip the racquet and rotate their body until the racquet is pretty much 90 degrees to the side. I tried that and I couldn't believe the difference. There is so much extra force you put on your wrist if you swing your racquet back quickly with just one hand. It is actually ridiculous. I made the adjustment and my racquet feels so much lighter, and my wrist pain has started going away. It's also become much easier for me to get my racquet lower and hit on balance when I'm prepping more with both hands. Stupid how something seemingly small can make such a big difference. I feel like the same is happening to him. And in different way, he was not prepping by holding the racquet forward enough when he closed the net. Was just too close to the body and the contact point on the volley ended up being farther back than he was expecting. Honestly think he could fix those issues in no time at all and be an incredibly strong player. That serve is so meaty compared to his older videos. I think he could really upset some tennis troll players. ;)
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. The unit turn (believe that is what most coaches call it) it key to hitting a solid shot. My coach would tell me over and over to get my racket back and ready quicker. Never can have it back too early, but having it late will cause all sorts of problems. Once the unit turn is made, the kinetic energy chain is likely flow more naturally as we uncoil.
Got beat by a Spanish MEP yesterday. Brutal game. Felt like I played well, just missed a few volleys / smashes late in the match along with my composure
I like how the color of the score changed with his shirt change. V cute.
Thanks. Try to keep it coordinated.
TopKnot's unforced errors are deadly
Yeah, me as a lefty would have a field day just returning the ball to his backhand all day long.
Ben is the TTC super star! Congrats for Ben!
MEP strikes again. I love watching this guy grind his opponents to the ground. Haha!
Topknot, When coming in for a volley you must never let the ball drop below the net cord you go from an offensive shot to a defensive shot
You see; you're not wrong
But I am lazy af
unless you can hit a good drop volley....
Bring him forward..drop shots.short balls to wide ad side of service line, or short balls wide deuce side of service line. By definition, pushers don’t want to move their feet! Bring them forward to get them out of their pushy comfort zone! Bring them forward to pass them via lobs or via open angles. Bring them forward to make them work.
Nice match from both players!
Another opponent, another soul harvested. 💀MEP💀
LOL
I'm surprised TopKnot won a single game let alone do as well as he did in the second set. I knew he'd lose after the second point in the match.
MEP's serve definitely has improved.
Topknot did do well with the new racquet in set 2, but he didn't land a sweet tweener like in set 1 with it! Whose to say which is better 👀
Oh snap #truth
TopKnot was losing 90% of the points at the net but he persisted with that strategy. Plus his lack of fitness showed because he was completely gassed like 4 games in.
To be precise about the points won/lost at the net:
TK hit 10 volley and 2 overhead winners, against 10 and 5 errors.
MEP hit 4 passing and 5 lob winners, against 1 lob error.
That's 13 - 24 from TK's perspective, so rather 66% than 90%
MEP's drop shots were 3-4 today, shifting it back to 61%
I agree a losing strategy should be abandoned but in MEP's you don't have a choice: with his drop & lob strategy you'll have to volley and smash. You won't battle it out on consistency either, so you have to go corner to corner and finish at the net.
@@knotwilg3596 5 lob winners - wow! That is a very telling stat. Either MEP is the best lobber ever or TK's approaches and volleys are lacking some effectiveness.
@@CoachAdrian both
don't forget a bad attitude and excuse factory at the end
MEP's serve does pack a punch and he has really good touch and feel.
And i wpuld say for MEP's opponent, his is name a bad player, but is not in adequate shape for singles in Atlanta. Doubles might be a better game for him while he improves his cardio.
By "improve my cardio" did you mean: "drink more beer"?
MEP how do you feel being so talented and yet a beast?
What boggles me is that most players, aside from MEP, are not really solid in their ground play. Yet, someone as TopKnot has a great serve and all... Curious how tennis is being tought in the US. In the Netherlands (and Europe mostly) we have a lot of clay courts which would help I guess.
Some of these players might not get lessons all the time from coaches
spot on, he exposes weaknesses on groundstrokes.
As a near fellow countryman, I agree the US players have comparately strong serves. Although Nikola Aracic is firm on the serve "not being a throwing motion" I do have the impression the importance of baseball in the US culture is helping them getting it right.
I can't speak for all Americans, but with hard/fast courts the most dominant surface here, the Serve + 1 tactic (big serve, big forehand) can be very effective. I do wish we had more clay courts here as this would force players to construct points much better and not rely too much on power to win points.
ANDY RODDICK SAYS SERVE HARD HIT FOREHAND HARD FOR AMERICA
OTHERWISE GET OFF THE COURT
-TK 🤣🤣🤣
Love the Collab with PewDiePie!
Pls don't reveal my secret identity
I used to despise MEP's game, but I understood that it is an efficient game at this 4.5 level, as I myself have lost to similar players because I didn't have the tactical understanding of the game that MEP has. One thing that catches my attention is that he runs A LOT and catches balls at angles, so playing his game with soft balls is asking for a loss.
Wow MEP's serve lookin real spicy
It's always hard to play against a pusher. Best thing to do is to be patient and return balls in the same way and wait for a clear opening.
I’m no physicist, but I don’t see how injecting foam into a racquet handle would have any effect on the racquet twisting.
I'm guessing the additional weight helps keep it more balanced with off-centered shot. I did hit with the racket afterwards and it felt softer on the arm.
@@TennisTrollChannel I could see it helping to dampen the vibration, but having the added weight in the very center of the point of twisting (draw an imaginary line from the center of the butt cap to the top of the racquet) shouldn’t have any significant effect on twisting forces. Adding weight at 9 and 3:00 definitely would help that because those are the points farthest from the center. It’s pretty well known that adding weight at those points increases stability which is the efficient way of saying “lessens the amount the racquet twists in your hand on ball impact”.
@@ViaticalTree The whole narrative sounds bollocks to me as well. Equipment doesn't play a big role at the recreational level anyway.
It's a poor workman who blames his tools. Unless you're in the top500 players in the world, your level of play is not affected by your racquet, strings, or balls. The only sport where people chase equipment more is golf.
A very entertaining match. TK played well but too many unforced errors and needs to work on his overheads. MEPs lobs are exquisite and his serves do look a lot stronger now. Well played guys!
Weak overheads are a common theme on this channel among 4.5s and their one of the reasons why so many people struggle against MEP, who employs the high ball to great effect.
How can you be very entertained watching hacks with bad technique hit balls 10 feet out?
@@knotwilg3596 these guys are far from 4.5
@@SpiritDonkey They are 4.5. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. If you think they shouldn't be, then you should write a letter to the body responsible for the ranking system, pointing out that ranks shouldn't be based on results but on style.
Spirit Donkey I like watching someone with an unconventional technique holding his own and often beating someone who plays in the "correct" style. Thanks to Tennis Troll for putting this on You Tube. There's only one Tennis Troll!
Can't wait for the Tennis troll cinematic universe fights vs the essential tennis cinematic universe in Georgia. Please set up up Mep, Tennis troll and wanna be pro vs, Mark, Scott and Ian respectively. It would be epic!!
We are hoping to : ]
Top Knot was in the position exactly where MEP wanted him. Make him play in no man’s land. If you try to hit hard the balls will go long so you try to take the pace off and give MEP more in control and let him do his magic. Just my opinion Top knot can hit a little bit flatter on ground strokes and maybe can work on the depth also . Easier said than done so kudo to both players and great match none the less. MEP continue his legacy as usual.
The smack talk .....wow...luv it
tennistroll, what are you using to film this? Where I play has playsight and the quality is much worse with that and the court is fisheyed from the cameras
Think this was iPhone 7
@@TennisTrollChannel how are you attaching to the fence?
@@jgardne depends. Use a selfie stick and tape stick to fence or tape stick to a price of wood with a hook and hook to fence.
Just a great example of how MEP's game frustrates. This was the first time I've seen Topknot play, and for about a set and a half I'm sitting here thinking "no way this guy is a 4.5"... but the realization later was that most of those unforced errors in the first set were a result of footwork and the expectation of how a ball normally comes back from players of that level. But then he started to figure things out and looked exactly like you'd expect a 4.5 to look, hitting tons of sharp winners off short balls and setting up points better. I definitely get the feeling that if there were a rematch, MEP would have a much tougher time of it.
Still, a really fun match to watch and some great playing from both players!
You da real MVP
-TK
@7:43 NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Imagine playing a match against MEP with the sound of pickleball from the other court.
Lol. With this video I was able to edit most of the pickle ball sounds away. TopKnot deserves a bunch of credit for only tossing his racket once : ]
🙋🏼♀️ Reading the front and back sweat stains, I predict a fun match and a MEP victory in two sets. 😁
Funny but true
9:05 is why MEP is legend.
I find myself always cheering for Ben.
Man I'd loved to play against Ben but since I'm based in Europe, no dice! But at least we got a copy of him in our club, I was 1:6 3:4 down when I got my self injured. You need to earn every point and it's like looking into a looking glass, every weakness of yours is exposed. Thumps up to Ian @essentialtennis, he made me change my view about players like Ben.
It would be interesting to see a match between MEP and the last guy who played against Troll
D1 Scrub? Maybe we can arrange that one day in future.
Yes
That one
And the other cool match would be MEP with two-handed forehand
It's literally like watching a boa constrictor squeeze the life out of a larger and seemingly more dangerous animal for hours. There was a point right at the beginning of the second set when top knot literally looked back at the camera with that "seriously this is really being recorded" look on his face.
lol. I'll have to look for it. I missed that.
MEP: the 36th chamber of Tennis-Shaolin. You will be tested to your limits and beyond.
Good description : ]
MEP, watch the foot faults bro. I also just realized that you have McEnroe's forehand (I'm guessing that's because of the grip, but it's unique). Well played!
I can see a little resemblance. I think they both use a continental grip.
@@TennisTrollChannel This was the standard forehand for many in wood racquet days: Point the racquet back, hit the ball, point the racquet forward. The grip is actually an "australian" grip...very similar to a continental, but the base of the index finger is kind of between bevels....at least in Mac's case. ...not sure about Ben This is what Ellsworth vines (great player of the 30s) said when he analyzed the 70s game.
Diadem commercial. Topknot those Yonex are light.. not nearly as heavy as my 95burnfst. And then I added lead tape to a whopping 371swing weight.
Did I just see Topknot hit a tweener? It was a nice shot, too! Ha ha ha! W onders is a good never cease...
I spent some time trying to put myself in Topknot’s place wondering how I would handle MEP, answer: not well.
Honestly, it felt suffocating. I’m glad I’m not in that situation often.
I really like the mechanics of Top Knot’s ground strokes! One of the most mechanically sound and simple looking forehand techniques I’ve seen on this channel. You can tell he likes to hit a lot of balls. That being said the rest of his game needs some help. His overhead technique is good but he looks very uncomfortable. His net game got a bit exposed. But man I’d sure like to have that forehand!
My experience is if you can't beat them from the baseline, you have to draw them to the net and try to pass or lob them. I have had success with unorthodox players.
That's a common suggest strategy for MEP. That or run him corner to corner. Both have pros and cons. I'm guessing it depends on the player and if the person has strong drop shots/lob. Good suggestion.
@@TennisTrollChannel Drop the ball to his forehand, dare him to hit a winner. It’s probably his most uncomfortable shot, forehand winner.
Definitely draw MEP to the net with some drops and short angle slices if you have those shots. His tendency is to always drift back so he can run side to side. Also keep upper body up when hitting overhead. Kinda hunches shoulder down when hitting over head. I do that when I get tired. I get tired easily though. LOL. Nice match.
I rarely see people at Rose Park. Strange to see this filmed there.
First time for me - it's nice. Same surface as the other parks in area.
Mep is the human backboard,
MEP got some good pace on some of those new serves.....it might look funky, but it's effective. He doesn't seem to extend his arm all the way when he serves...seems to be hitting it with a bent arm...Toss it higher and jump up to meet it, if you want to create more pace...but it's pretty effective just the way it is....
I think MEP will start to work on what you mention. Think he’s focused on getting rid of the ‘waiter tray’ and I think that is likely next step as he progresses.
@@TennisTrollChannel Did you see that link to "Chang", the guy who was number one on his 40+ 4.5 ladder in South Carolina? He had such a weird game, it made MEP look like a lesson player. I would love to see the two of them play. Chang is fast as can be, and appears to just pop everything up in the air with a little kick, and then run the next ball down. I'd chip in for the car fair if they want to get together and video a match.....
I've now watched Ben play six or seven matches. Ben's play is really solid, he's in great shape, almost always in good position and makes very few unforced errors, and hits surprisingly good passing shots, especially off the forehand side. After the first game it was clear that Ben was going to handle TopKnot. TopKnot made way too many unforced errors, continued charging the net despite his poor volleying and weak overheads. I would have liked to see him change tactics. TopKnot couldn't consistently return Ben's much improved serve. As we've seen, to defeat Ben, you need deep, crisp approach shots and crisp, accurate volleys, and a strong overhead, and most importantly, few unforced errors. TopKnot's backhand volley was awful, and poor footwork on his overheads set him up for defeat. Thanks for another fun match. Don't think I agree with TopKnot's 4.5 rating, he would be a 4.0 here on the Eastern Shore of Maryland.
Don’t know if I’ve ever seen a prematch interview where a player basically calls his opponent a cheater
Its an inside joke.
Well, The opponent admitted it....
@@joemarshall4226 yeah I'm 100% cheater 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@darthtau LOL I think that overhead you hit at 4-4 30-30 actually looked like it caught the line.....just sayin'....
haha, MEP (Most Enjoyable Person) continues to amaze. The one key about MEP is he hardly ever hits the ball long, he'll hit the net but hardly ever long. TopKnot had a good serve, 1st serve % was high, had to be over 80%, but his game otherwise lacked. MEP's serve was very good as well, 80% 1st serve in probably. It's MEP's craftiness, you want to make popcorn and watch MEP.
With extra butter
I think MEP is improving
TopKnot - first thought after watching every single point. Topknot - you are a little LATE on almost 90% of your contact points and hear me out---- ***once you pass the service line***. for a short shot, slice, volley, overhead, doesn't seem to matter the shot. Once you pass the service line, your contact point is late - and the ball goes long. You are not hitting it too hard. It is a timing thing. You have a great game. Keep your stroke preparation more compact if you can. Blade your body more on all strokes, especially the overhead. Turn that core more in prep, and keep your racket takeback compact. Great match dude.
Thank you for providing suggestions. Sounds like TopKnot needs to be more out in front with his shots near the net. Maybe he's bringing his racket too far back resulting in a late shot?
@@TennisTrollChannel Sure thing. None of us watching knows 'why' someone is late. Too many variables. The key thing is to know in your mind, that spot. Get to it on time. It could be late decision on the contact point, the target you envision, a lot of things. Pick a target as soon as you can, pin-point the contact point and then you have a great chance to get your racket there in time regardless of the technique employed. Hope this helps. It helps me too just to put pen to paper on my own shots. I'll be working on this too. - Chuck
@@TennisTrollChannel Troll - I just want to mention after over 25 years playing hearing all the suggestions, like hit out in front more. Yes that's true . But to hit 'out front' is only a core principle---and true. Why does a person hit out front 'more'? After all these years, I really feel any contact point you aim for positionally is a matter of where you imagine that contact point to be. If it's out 'front' then you will do whatever it takes to get there. The key is in the mind. WHERE is that ideal contact point? That has to be the main thing in the forefront of the mind. The mechanics will FOLLOW. :)
The timing to get there will follow.
@@cldavis33 I like this comment. It has to naturally be out of in front. If we try to force it, it won't work.
@@TennisTrollChannel Right - we force it and are late. When we say naturally, that confuses people. Naturally needs no explanation, no coaching, no comments at all. Naturally means someone whomever it may be, understands that perfect contact point out front and get there on time because they know what time to get there.. See?
This is entertainment
MEP is a barometer
TK has really great serve and sexy tweener, but he should work really hard on both the half-volley at the net and the backhand high volley put away, coz these two shots seem to be his weakest.
TopKnot knows a lot about racquet construction and stringing, for sure. But he doesn't hit any stroke (other than his nice serve) anywhere near hard enough for the hollow core v. foam core thing to even become a factor. I understand that's his profession, but he shouldn't get hung up into thinking that is having any effect on those strokes. You gotta be hitting way whippier off both wings for that stuff to matter. As MEP has proven once again, being in really good shape and having a smart split step is what matters the more at this level.
Who are you?
@@darthtau A guy who watched a video of a guy worried about grip core get worked by a guy hitting all slice with his non-dominant hand.
This knife serve 😳
The modern game is all about hitting from the baseline, but it doesn't work against MEPs. You must be able to volley and smash overheads consistently.
I find these games really interesting. Is there any chance of you indicating whether the serves are 1st or 2nd serves? There don't seem to be many aces, yet I am guessing that MEP's opponents must be capable of big serves. Perhaps they are playing safe?
Thank you for reminder. I need to look into a way to note first or second serves. Unfortunately we made several videos already but with new one we can. One way to tell if to look at the speed as second serves tend to be slower. There won’t be many aces at the 4.5 level. I think there is a tendency for MEPs opponents to play it safe at times. MEP is good at blocking back fast serves; however, he rarely hits a winner off the serve. Therefore, players may feel there is less of a need to go for a big serve if a slower, safe serve is not going to attack it.
Ben is using slice and makes you hit up on the ball, you have to bring him into the net.
I've got a pretty good idea where the serve from MEP is going on the deuce side. Like every time.
And you still can't do much with it.....he does slap it out wide flat once in a while
@@joemarshall4226 agreed. Thats how I see it as well.
Continuing theme of people playing MEP having poor volleys.
True, but MEPs unique way of hitting the ball and his ability to run down the next shot and lob it is effecting them, also, I think. US Open John said the spin on those shots really threw hm off, noting that his volleys are usually reliable.
When someone hits with under spin and you're volleying, you have to make an adjustment by opening the racket face a bit more. This will impart more height and spin on your volleys.
Anyways as far as I can see no one can do drop shots, drop volleys.. mep didn't come forward once in this match!!
@@almacnamara2000 They try, but drop volleys are tough to hit off backspin shots without a lot of practice. What you say about volleying backspin shots is true, but there's more. Backspin shots tend to rise up, or even seem to "Stall". You have to really watch them and adjust right up until the last split-second. They float some times, and they die some times. The tendency is to hit them into the net. And if they have a mix of back and side spin, then you've got your hands full...lol
The underspin really effects volleys. I have a strong slice backhand and my instructor encouraged me too use it for passing shots noting that the backspin will cause anything less than a firmly struck volley to drop into the bottom of the net. He's right, it's worked that way many times.
@@photobearcmh therefore it's probably not a good strategy to come into the net v mep if you can't handle this spin!?
Hm... I wondering what ball are they playing with...
Pretty sure they're using Diadem balls.
It's weird seeing these big-serving 4.5s that are completely unable to hit (or even attempt) an overhead for a winner. If any of them could actually capitalize on mediocre MEP lobs it's not that close.
I think MEP's lobs are more difficult to hit it looks. Most drop within 1-2 feet of the base line. If so, that means the person has to hit an overhead a between the service line and baseline - that is not easy for many recreational players to consistently do.
You need a SABR type return for the MEP serve
As a big fan of knotwilg's statistical analyses of matches, I tried to teach myself his system. When I encountered some problems, I wondered whether there is some sort of "standardized" tennis stats system. I came across this: www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2015/09/23/the-match-charting-project-quick-start-guide/
I took a stab at charting this match via that system. Even though knotwilg has already provided his always stellar statistical take, I thought it might be interesting to see another angle. Because it's hard to know if a serve is the first or second (other than in double fault points, or points where I noticed a stray ball at the net during the serve), the 1st vs 2nd serve stats should definitely be read with a large grain of salt. I also had to occasionally guess at what happened when the near court player was off screen. I'm hoping the system's creator will share some of his spreadsheet formulas that present other stats, but here's the match summary that is a tab in the basic spreadsheet:
MEP 6-1 7-5 TopKnot
1 Aces 3
1 Double Faults 5
93% 1st Serve In % 89%
38/52 (73%) 1st Serve Points Won 39/76 (51%)
1/4 (25%) 2nd Serve Points Won 3/9 (33%)
39/56 (70%) Service Points Won 42/85 (49%)
82/141 (58%) Total Points Won 59/141 (42%)
4/12 Break Points Won 1/1
10 Winners 25
11 Unforced Errors 51
0/0 Net Points Won 0/0
Overall
58/92 (63%) Points Won, 0-4 Shots 34/92 (37%)
23/43 (53%) Points Won, 5-9 Shots 20/43 (47%)
1/6 (17%) Points Won, 10+ Shots 5/6 (83%)
10 Most Consec Pts Won 6
7 Last Ten Points 3
Longest rally: 13 shots (SET 2: 0-0, 40-40)
Total shots: 545
Average rally: 3.9 shots
Here's a link to the raw data. The summary that I cut/pasted above can also been seen on a per-set basis there if you download view the spreadsheet in some app where the macros are active: drive.google.com/file/d/10vePShlzqQrPSbnb479t860BRUIPZwL6/view?usp=sharing
Thank you for sharing this. MEP won 10 consecutive points? That's amazing.
@@TennisTrollChannel The stat that surprised me the most is that TK dominates the 10+ shot points. I would've thought that was MEP's bread and butter. In fact, MEP's winning percentage uniformly decreases as the points get longer, which is the opposite of what I would've guessed. This seems to imply that one of the keys to beating MEP is by making the points as long as possible -- who would ever have thought that? Not me. I'm going to map another of MEP's matches where he loses and see if this pattern is consistent.
@@repoman7804 actually I’m not too surprised and that may be due to us having played. My experience with him makes me believe MEP is not a pusher. I see him as a counter puncher. He goes for his shots - usually drop shots/shirt angles and then ends the point with a lob or passing shot. I am curious to see how the stats play out with other matches at 10+ shots.
@@TennisTrollChannel Here are all the statistical views of this match that you could ever hope for: www.tennisabstract.com/charting/20210213-B-TennisTroll-F-Mep-Topknot.html. The author of the charting system graciously ran my annotation through his analysis script on a one-time basis. Man, I wish I could see all of this info for every match I was willing to chart. That said, I'm currently annotating the MEP v USOpen John match to further hone my annotation skills, and to see the match summary like I've already provided here.
MEP is exhausting because he makes less unforced errors, whoever he plays! So, if you want to beat him, you'll have to do the same.
That's probably one of the best strategy to use when playing him.
At minimum
MEP com seu jeitão esquisito passando o rodo na galera
What’s MEP UTR? I am curious...
I believe it is 8.5. I do know it is between 8 and 9.
Wow pretty good...would love to see a full match between you two guys again! :)
@@kshiralk we will in future. Want to have MEP play different players to see how different styles adjust to MEP’s style.
Topknot pre match interview kinda looks like he doesn’t have any horizontal strings.
I feel like TopKnot was getting fatigued then he started getting sloppy.
Topknot has similar play to me. Slightly better serve . A little bit worse groundstrokes, especially bh. But as me not good winning volley and smash. Dropshots I cannot judge because he didn't play.
And it's so exhausting to have clean winner on volley and to make error.
I feel your pain. Missing a shot where the court is open hurts.
The guy in yellow had a very nice serve but it was unfortunate he couldn't back it up at the net or he would of won the match.