Well I mean at the haunted house afterwards the reason why tails was scared of ghosts is because they realized after this shadow was supposed to be dead.
Heroes is probably the closest thing we'll get to 'classic Sonic' aesthetics in 3D. It's so colourful, creative and surrealist. Really reminds me of the Genesis games.
I've always liked Sonic Heroes more than I feel most do, I just think it has an incredibly energy. The soundtrack is so, so good and the visuals I think are really gorgeous for the time - and even if the core gameplay isn't as exciting as the best of 3D Sonic, at least Sonic Team actually COMMITTED to a gameplay style and didn't bog it down with silly gimmicks like so many other 3D Sonic games. I think the game gets a really bad rap, it's not amazing but it's not bad at all
This game was one of my favourites on the GameCube. I had just turned 12 and the idea that I could play as not only Sonic but 11 other characters was mind blowing. I spent so long in the Casino level because I just loved the aesthetic and music. I’m not actually sure I ever completed the game though, and I may have to rectify that… at the age of 29.
I was only 6 when this game came out, I never completed it, it was just way to hard for me. I got stuck on the lava level for years and just lost interest lmao
I'm also 29. I remember being so enthralled with this game, then when I would go back to SA or SA2B, I'd remember why I preferred those two over this game.
If it's one thing I absolutely love about Sonic Heroes is that the levels have a sense of scale and being just memorable. For that alone I can ignore all the other flaws.
Despite all the negatives stacked against it compared to it's adventure counterparts I just adore the scenery and the spectacle that there is in Sonic Heroes. It's also why I Love rail canyon even though in gameplay alot of people hate it. But because of how it's done and how fun it is to speed blitz I enjoyed it regardless.
The scenery doesn't mask the extremely copy and paste level design throughout most of it. Since you spend more time in areas on general, it also highlights the finer detail issues that much more. Suffice to say, I feel it is one of the uglier games when taking everything into consideration and not just the surface level aesthetic.
This games story when compared to how future ones do it just feels passionate. Forces, Colors, and Lost World feel like they are making fun of themselves while Heroes instead revels in its cheese with positive energy.
I think it's the sincerity behind it. Heroes can get super corny at times but you can't help but have a little smile because it's fully played straight (and also not too long most of the time), nowadays a lot of franchise have this strange sense of detachment whenever something cheesy pops up, either not wanting to commit to it or trying to play it ironically with the "haha it's just a kids game so stupid amirite fellas?" so at best you're indifferent and at worse you just want to skip the whole scene.
Self awareness is becoming so common that nowadays most media feels like it's trying to cinemasins itself. It's nice to find something that plays its cheese completely straight
My opinion on Heroes has gone back and forth like crazy over the years, and now it's up there as one of my favorites...provided I have access to save states to mitigate the jank. For all of its issues, I think Heroes strikes kind of a beautiful balance in gameplay variety with the 3 formations (once you know how to best use each one at least). The stages are amazing aside from Casino Park, Bingo Highway and Rail Canyon (which are unfortunately all back to back so you get a bit of a slog halfway through). If I could change the course of Sonic's history, I think I'd have a direct Heroes sequel happen after the first that would take the fundamental gameplay, polish it all up, adjust the roster in a way that makes each team a bit more distinct mechanically (think how knuckles and omega differ from big and vector and apply that more to the other formation characters).
The biggest way they differentiated the power characters was by having them attack in different ways and have their combos be different. Plus some of their animations, like gliding, differ. So it's not about giving them different moves entirely, but maybe tweaking the effects or animations of their moves in order to make the speed and flight characters feel different from the others in their type. Similar to how all of the supers basically do the same thing, but all look different and have different secondary effects. I think it'd be fun to have Team Rose with Amy focusing on her hammer acrobatics and Cream focusing on Chao stun attacks. Maybe give cream more ammo with her thunder shot because of the Chao and to play into Team Rose being the easier story. Like, Cream only has Big and Amy, but gains Chao as you level her up throughout the level. Even just having Amy use her hammer jump as her homing attack instead of the base homing attack could help. Maybe she could get more height out of her homing attacks because of her hammer jump attacks. Shadow could use chaos control rather than a homing attack, meaning it's harder to keep momentum while attacking but maybe give him another chaos ability to help him get back up to speed, probably as part of his tornado spin. That or have his tornado attack send out chaos spears to deal some additional chip damage to whatever enemy you're not flipping over. Meanwhile, Rouge could be useful for pickpocketing rings from enemies with her attacks. This could play into Team Dark generally being a harder mode. Maybe make rings in the world a little more sparse outside light dash areas so Rouge would not only stun, but help keep the team alive. I think a bigger focus on Espio being a ninja could help with him, and they started to do that in the base game. His tornado attack makes him invisible for a short time and he does use shuriken when doing some of his leveled up attacks. I do like how they give Charmy some new platforms only he can use. That does help him feel a bit different. Maybe giving hidden extra paths with that could help with better differentiating him more. Since he's a bee, they could maybe make his thunder shot have a little more power so it does some more damage while also stunning. I find them to be the hardest to really make unique as opposed to the other teams.
So basically the good parts are really good and the bad parts are really bad… That’s pretty much how I remember this game myself. When this came out though I was finally old enough to recognize bad gameplay and the bad outweighed the good to me
@@LeUberTroll the only “bad” i see is the slipperlyness of characters (especially near edges of platforms and in special stages) as well as how the game gets bland halfway through the 4 playthroughs. Those combined with level pieces here and there don’t really equate to more bad overall from what I see. Its so weird how this game creates extremes with people’s views of it. I don’t understand how it does it.
@@jtlego1 Level 1 they are the worst characters for combat, only good for ferrying the others across gaps. But once you get them to level 3 they become monsters.
Hahahahah memory unlocked I totally forgot about that part 😂 my favorite memory is listening to the title song on repeat for hours because I would just leave it up on my TV since my game would be erased if I turned off my Xbox (the memory card was fucked up)
I think the in-stage dialogue adds a ton of charm to these characters, hearing Sonic and Shadow get spooked by ghosts while Charmy simply laughs at them always gives me a warm smile
When I see this game I'm reminded when Omega had personality once, he wasn't just generic robot 3637 AND was actually funny. Whenever he shows up in the newer games with his generic robot sounds to remind us that he's indeed a robot (as if it wasn't obvious enough) I roll my eyes. It was especially soo bad in 06 and Forces.
Some other thing I've noticed in later games is how janky his animations look, I get that he's a robot but there was something incredibly satisfying in how he moved in Heroes and even Shadow (the ballerina spin has no right being as badass as it is). In 06 his robotic movements are slow to a painful degree, and while he's a bit faster in Forces he still suffers from that same sudden limitation of movements which just doesn't suit him.
@@lpfan4491 He was actually created because there was no other existing character at the time that would fit the team dynamic with Shadow and Rouge. Just like how Cream was created for Team Rose, although in her case they managed to introduce her prior thanks to the Advance games.
26:19 They're not looking for snails, why would eggman task team chaotix with hunting snails? That makes no sense. They're looking for hermit crabs, which is much more logical
Advice for anyone playing this game: In the special stages use the power character (gathers the most orbs) and HOLD the boost button down this will effectively change all of the special stages to easy mode
I'd love to hear more. Is there, perhaps, a playthrough of Sonic Heroes featuring you and three other gamers where you definitely don't avoid talking about the game at all costs until giving in to Eggfleet cause of how sublime it is?
Personally, I feel like Heroes IS the unofficial Adventure 3. It follows the reduction in gameplay variety that happened between 1 and 3, but also suffered the same sort of gameplay issues.
yeah, seaside hill is probably my favorite sonic location to date but it’s weird they put it in a game with green hill, when they have relatively similar color schemes/aesthetics
Fun fact: In sonic heroes: all the eggman fights are not eggman, but rather metal sonic, or specifically, Neo metal sonic. You save him at the end of team chaotix' story because he was overthrown.
Yeah it's been very obvious he was in his 20s based on the games he talks about playing in his childhood. If he was in his 30s he'd have be talking about NES games when he was very young among other things. If someone starts talking about 3D era games as childhood games it kind of gives it away.
@@Furluge Not necessarily. I’d expect more of the N64/PS1 and maybe a bit of SNES/Genesis. You’re talking about the 90’s for people in their early to mid 30’s, at least in terms of when they were old enough to understand and play video games.
33:23 The Sonic Paradox team had a great justification for why Team Chaotix would want to fight Team Dark. In Grand Metropolis, they just got done destroying all of Eggman's robots in the area, so it makes sense that upon seeing Omega, they'd assume he's on their hit list as well.
When you started talking about all the little techniques to avoid things like the slippery physics, I really felt that! Just the mention of them let me know how much you love the game. I played the hell out of this game as a kid and spent hours getting all A ranks, and trying to get a super fast time in Rail Canyon. Now when I go back to it, I either play Dark or Chaotix, and despite the frustration I love this game with my whole heart. Thanks for the great video :)
Agreed here, I feel like Sonic Heroes' idea and playability could have stayed in the over for longer or get worked for a following game. Though repetitive the levels give a feeling of progression and adventure, the characters themselves are fun and play well and though a junk, the story is a good junk.
@@Essu_ and I agree! Wasnt trying to justify bad physics, just commenting on the relatability, as I used to do all those things as a kid too (and still do).
I think this game is responsible for why I love character action games: particularly one where you can switch styles on the fly. DMC, Yakuza 0, and Bayonetta's weapon sets are the pinnacle of action gaming because they allow me to adapt to a situation or do flashy combos and moves on the fly. This is where it started
I commented on one of his community posts last week "Still waiting for that Sonic Heroes Retrospective" and I couldn't be more happy. Thanks King K lol
I remember getting this game back from the store on a rainy day when I was around 6 or 7 years old. The music, the settings, the themes were so great, definitely one of my best gaming nights growing up, and I wish I could go back in time and play this for the first time again.
I kinda miss being able to fall in love with a game based on premise alone. Like, playing a mech game nowadays, I'd be wondering if the sense of scale is supported by enemies and the environment or if it's functionally indistinct from just running around, I'd be analyzing the controls and the balancing and the pacing. But as a kid, I'd have been all "I'm DRIVING A ROBOT! WHOOOOOO!"
@@Mayeur000Donz I miss not knowing the limit of games. Back when playing Sonic FELT like an adventure just because the young mind could imagine a thousand different possibilities and somehow still be suprised at every new thing.
every zone in this game inspired me so much creatively as a kid, ESPECIALLY that final level. this game just had so much going for it. I also spent way too much time trying to find a hidden chao garden after all my time in adventure 2 tho lmao
Man, I played the crap out of this game as a kid. I was hype when I unlocked the true final boss for the first time. It’s janky, had underwhelming bosses, and I hated the haunted zone, but I still think this game is over-hated. It’s nice and arcady perfect for being in between big Sonic games.
@@mitchellhoward3209 this game is laughably patronizing still throwing formation signs at you in the final level as if it isn't obvious by the 12th stage. You can only possibly die to bottomless pits as sonic by fucking up really badly
I think Sonic's calmness to Shadow being back made sense. He's just excited rather than shocked, a pleasant surprise and a chance to butt heads with a rival again. I really love the line and the delivery of "talk about being stubborn and full of surprises!". In the Japanese version he actually calls back to Sonic's line in SA2 from the final Sonic Vs Shadow battle. He says something along the line of "stubbornness is my saving grace" then when he sees Shadow in heroes he says something like "I guess stubbornness is your saving grace too!"
Because you didn't mention it: the reason why Metal Sonic steals Froggy, Cheese, and Chocola is because Chao are related to Chaos and Froggy used to be part Chaos. Metal Sonic needed to copy their data for his ultimate form. That's what brings Team Rose into the story. It's only mentioned very briefly in the cutscene that follows beating Egg Albatross as Team Rose. Regarding the issue of unique levels for the team: I believe one way to handle this would've been to simply assign different acts to different teams, weaving the story line together. Sort of like if you played Sonic Adventure 2 chronologically.
I'm so happy to see someone praising Sonic Heroes, it really deserves a rerelease at some point soon as over the years I've seen so many more people appreciating it for what it is rather than pointing out its flaws and being negative. the early 2000's era of sonic really is under rated sometimes, it had a charm and style that we probably won't see again, but this game was defiantly the peak of that. Great video!
Is there a specific reason to why we never got Sonic Adventure 3? It genuinely baffles me, sounds terrible but surely it would make them a ton of money?
Because Sonic fans taught the higher ups that they could pump halfbaked shit like this to the masses and it would be considered "up there with the greats". And now all you get is halfbaked shit. This may be the only time I don't side with the consumer because the consumer is smiling with a big shit mustache and asking for more.
@@GuitarSlayer136 Yeah true, makes me sad. As someone who grew up with adventure 1&2 and heroes i really don't enjoy the more modern games. They just seem a bit soulless to me and that's probably why
You always treat every title with so much respect. It really points out all the nuances that go into making these games. Always appreciate your opinions. Keep it up man.
Heroes is one of the most *underrated* sonic games ! I love it so much. It’s my second favorite sonic game after sonic adventure 2 ! I want a sequel so bad 🔵🟡🔴
I had received this game as a gift back in 2005 along with my gamecube that I still have today. Great video, narration and talking points for a game that brings back incredible nostalgia and memories 17 years later
This is my exact feelings about the game! I love replaying this game, and I can't explain to other people why I love it so much. Something about it just hits my brain like a drug lol
I was in primary school when Heros came out and I remember there being so much hype for it, and how excited I was to bring it home. It's definitely got a place in my heart despite how much of a mess it was.
I tend to compare it to The Wonderful 101 but I see what you mean. It can be interesting to tackle things with multiple characters or weapons but Sonic Heroes limits it a bit by not allowing switching midair or during a number of other states. Usually for good reason I imagine since it doesn't need more bugs and sometimes plays into balance with the cannons.
Same, when he said that Team Sonic was the standard, I was thinking "speak for yourself!" Don't get me wrong I still love playing as the other teams but I always found Espio to be cooler than Sonic or Shadow.
Seriously, I have so many nostalgic memories of this game alongside Adventure DX. Seeing this just makes my inner child smile. It also has to be among the first games I played where I genuinely started to care about the soundtrack.
"But hey - sometimes, it doesn't make sense. Love doesn't make sense. It doesn't follow a set of rules. I love Sonic Heroes for the mess that it is, and I think I came to terms with that a long time ago." One of the best notes you've ever ended a video on. A brilliant video, King! ^^
Sonic Heroes will always be one of the most memorable games I played as a kid and I’ll always love it for that no matter how objectively bad or good it might be. Ahhh, simpler times…
3:00 EXACTLY. This makes me think of Sonic Unleashed and Sonic and the Black Knight... Two games that people HATED (some even still hate it to this day) all because they were weird. "What? Sonic turns into a werewolf? HUH? Sonic doesn't need a sword to be cool, what is this garbage?" But both those games showcase Sonic's inspiring personality better than most Sonic games, they had a ton of really great aspects that people ignore because "WEIRD." In Sonic Unleashed, the gameplay for the day levels is some of the best Boost levels in the franchise. In Black Knight, they had an incredibly deep and thought-provoking narrative and very stylized gameplay (plus, more playable characters than just Sonic)!
Sonic and the Black Knight and Unleashed is probably the best Performances that the 4Kids Voice Actors put in during their entire run as the Sonic Characters as well, as another tidbit to back up your point.
I’ve been binging your videos the last few days and this one genuinely gave me goosebumps, I played this game for YEARS and you made all my memories rush back Thank you for that
To be fair, he’s been cooped up by his lonesome on a floating island for most of his life and hasn’t really explored the world for a reason not relating to the master emerald up until this game. Everything is going to be a “wild ride” to him
Someone who appreciates Final Fortress and Egg Fleet as final levels. I agree. They're great final levels. Up until Titanic Monarch in Mania, I had them as my favorite final levels in Sonic.
I mostly agree with this entire assessment. I'll never understand why so many Sonic fans disregard this entry so easily. Also, from your comments about SA2, it is refreshing to see another Sonic fan that doesn't hate the treasure and mech stages. I think they are highly underrated.
I grew up on Heroes and I'm just now playing through it properly. There's so much to love about this game, from the bright visuals to the fun cutscenes, to the music to the level aesthetics. And watching someone with a good control of the game, it's satisfying! While the mechanics are a slightly hard fit for the speed-based franchise, it's conceptually really fun, but poor controls and some frustrating level design and physics from all the factors that were in play make it just how you describe! If everything worked a bit more as intended, it would be the perfect adaptation of the classic titles!
team chaotix literally had a mission to destroy ALL egman’s robots like two stages before the team dark meeting, they could’ve used that as their reason to fight
Now that I see it from a new angle, having enemies that don't go down in one hit makes sense. Sure, sonic is supposed to be strong, but he's not abnormal in most tv shows. It usually takes a few good bops to take down most bots in shows like satam or x
I’m glad someone else can see what I see in this. It’s my favorite 3D Sonic game and to see the highs and lows discussed like this makes me want to jump back in and experience it all over again!
I have always had a love for this game! This was my only true Sonic game that I had growing up, and maybe that made me used to it, but I've always respected how it has a consistent goal of "Race to the goal" even with sections that require you to defeat enemies before moving on. Nice to hear what others think about it though!
I'm so sad this game never got a sequel. Like what did omega do with metal sonic? The levels were so creative as well as the platforming formula. This was my intro to sonic when I was 8
Aside from the god awful character battles and the lack of polish. This is still my favourite video game of all time. EVERYTHING from the level design, the mechanics, the amount of layers, the visuals. These are by far the best I’ve ever experience from this whole franchise and I always find myself coming back. That’s why Sonic Heroes is THE GOAT! 🙏🏻 🔥🐐
Somehow I managed to miss the sonic adventure games and never played them as a kid, but what I did have was sonic heroes. And alongside ratchet and clank, its one of those childhood games I have vivid memories of
I think team rose was significantly slower (even Amy). I remember getting the emeralds with less effort as team sonic etc. Sure, getting to the stage is easier with Amy's team but the actual special stage seemed to be harder. I have vivid memories of being confused about why I could beat the stages with even team shadow but not team rose.
It's doable, but yeah Team Rose is significantly slower than Team Sonic. In fact, so is Team Chaotix. You can see this in the multiplayer versions of the Emerald Challenge, where Rose and Chaotix will fall behind in auto-running sections. And IIRC the game straight up rates them based on speed with a 3-star system). Team Sonic and Team Dark have equivalent speeds, Chaotix is slightly slower, and Rose is the slowest.
Needing to play the game with all four teams to unlock the last story really just feels like it's running counter to the whole point of making the different teams act as difficulty levels. That coupled with the fact that each individual story doesn't truly get resolved here and its more of its own thing makes me wonder why they couldn't change the unlock requirements to instead be "beat ANY story, collect all seven Chaos Emeralds". It's not even like that'd mess with the reveal too much, every single story has some clues towards Eggman's identity, some of which get pretty blatant, and Eggman "dying" at the end is automatically a dead giveaway.
As is often (almost always) the case with this franchise, I find that Heroes has appealing ideas and level design, that is marred by how these ideas are executed in a practical sense. The sheer amount of jank and wonky collision detection are really hard to ignore in Heroes, more so than in other 3D titles. I suppose this is just something we need to accept with Sonic.
Loved your perspective on Sonic Heroes. It took my back to my late middle school years where I'd spend hours upon hours A ranking everything trying to unlock super hard mode. A always enjoyed the gameplay and alot of your points made me laugh because it was fun to know I wasn't the only one who suffered from the game's crazy amount of glitches. Your video took me back to a good time in life and for that you have my thanks.
I think the one thing I miss most about the early 3D experiments (okay, so just Sonic Adventure and the one I don't talk about) was the idea of a hub map. It was fun having those regular people being all totally out of place, and having a map with no timer or immediate objective to detract from just naively wandering around.
When I was a kid, Team Rose was my favorite team funnily enough. I understand the flaws with it considering that it’s actually just baby mode, but Amy was my favorite character in the Sonic series so I was very happy that I could play with her as a main character throughout the whole game
Dude same. I just really liked Amy as a kid so I mostly played their story the most. Hell, they were the only story I managed to finish as a kid. (I played heroes on the ps2 and I never had a memory card so I would wake up at like 6AM just to see how far I can go) The furthest I got with team Sonic was probably hang castle or the eggfleet one. But for chaotix and dark, I could barely finish lmao.
@@jonathanlgill on the other hand I still stand that Charmy beating up Eggman as the credits starts rolling was the unexpected reward that made me fully glad I went through with that campaign.
I think another aspect of the game that can make it enjoyable is that there's a lot of weird jank in the game that can be really fun to take advantage of if you know about it. By looking up stuff about the game, you can learn neat tricks, such as rapidly swapping between speed and power while rail grinding to build speed, completely skipping a few pinball tables, and using a glitch to build team blast meter super quickly. I don't know if this element of the game would resonate with a lot of people, but I've always found exploits like these super fun to utilize.
Sonic Heroes is perfect for someone with younger siblings. You can have one do the Team Sonic Story, little brother does Team Rose, I do team Dark. Everyone gets their own section of the game to do.
As my first sonic game, this one will always hold a special place in my heart. I'm really bad with words so hearing someone manage to vocalize everything I love about it and acknowledge that it's still great in spite of its faults made my day. Thank you for this and all your hard work :)
One of the things that I think makes Heroes such a contentious entry is how it influenced later games in the series. When Sonic Team included Green Hill as an unlockable in SA2, it was with the conceit that they would never return to it again, and that they were moving on to a bright, all new, all different future for Sonic levels. Then the very next game marketed itself as "RETURNING TO SONIC'S ROOTS GUYS LOOK CHECKERBOARD HILLS" and ever since then, Sega has had this misguided fascination with "Sonic's roots," despite never really seeming to understand what actually made those games good in the first place (except maybe Generations.) Add to that the weird new focus on combat turning half of Sonic 06 (the half that isn't a buggy, awful mess) into Sonic homing attacking enemies until a switch is available or some other scripted thing happens. And don't even get me started on half of Unleashed. Heroes is frustrating to me because it's so close to being an amazing 3D Sonic game, but I know they'll never remake it or fix it in any way. It'll always be the Sonic game where if you don't walk into the loops right, you go flying through them.
...guess what? Sonic Adventure 2 was also promoted as a "return to Sonic's roots," as a way to sidestep the fact that they were removing the ADVENTURE Fields that gave the sub-series its name. xD I think they made the claim for literally every mainline game released in the 2000s.
The funny thing about heroes is to unlock everything you would need to do each stage at minimum 8, once in the story for each team and once with alternate objectives, and that's assuming you get an A rank and the emerald on your first go which you need to unlock super hard mode which rewards you with being able to play all of it AGAIN but much harder than team dark this time :v
I wouldn't say metal sonic comes out of nowhere at the end. He is seen at the end of the canyon levels for Team Dark and Team Sonic. Tails notes that the "Eggman" they defeated wasn't one of his regular robots as it is melting. Afterwards we see Metal Sonic form from the liquid metal all T1000 like. Even saying that he had copied the teams data. Getting the data of the Ultimate Lifeform was not something he was expecting but is something he took full advantage of. At the end of Team Rose, you can hear metal sonic say that he has collected the data of the Chao and Chaos (which is why he kidnapped Froggy, as there was still some residual Chaos essence in the poor guy). And finally the end of Team Chaotix where it is revealed that their client was Eggman. When you do the Egghawk fight as Team Dark, "Eggman" remarks as if he has never encountered Omega before. Even though that is impossible if that was really Eggman. During the add clear boss fight as Team Chaotix in the Haunted Castle, the "Client" gets insulted when Chaotix insults the good doctor. Mix this with the Client telling Chaotix to kill "Eggman" and you can piece together the conspiracy. Also in Haunted Castle, there is a statue of Eggman that when you get flipped upside down, is "replaced" by a statue of Metal Sonic during Team sonic and Team Darks playthroughs. Symbolizing that Metal Sonic has gone rogue. Imprisoned Eggman and took over his empire. In terms of the Story I would recommend going Rose > Sonic > Dark > Chaotix. Chaotix does ruin the twist if you do it early. As the other 3 stories leaves it vague if Metal Sonic is working for his creator like in Sonic CD or if he is on his own. The statue in Haunted Castle hints towards the latter narratively. Most of the clues towards Metal Sonic being the main antagonist are in the dialogue. So if you are not paying attention you do miss most of them.
Heroes was a game I played the hell out of as a kid, so its super nostalgic to me. Even despite its jank I can't help but love it. And I actually went back and played through it fully a little while back (including the true ending I could never get to as a kid) and I will say I enjoyed it. Not the greatest thing I've ever played, but I still had a good time, which is enough for me.
I know you mention at the end of the Sonic Adventure 2 retrospective in this set that there couldn't really be a Sonic Adventure 3 at this point, but I would sincerely love a Sonic Heroes 2 with the same sort of SA1-SA2 idea refinement for itself. Sonic Heroes is my favorite Sonic game because of the team mechanic and the concepts it allows, and thinking about how outstanding it would be with the SA2 treatment where every team (either these same trios or changed ones) had their own set of levels and mechanics with a properly interwoven story culminating in "everyone do your part" at the end would be beyond perfection for me.
11:59-12:05 This man just gets it. And the showcase for the Egg Fleet really takes me back to when storming Eggman's flying fortresses was this grand event. The way Sonic and team are just there, ready and raring to break some bots-ship by ship-really hits a sense of awesome juvenility it feels like the series has been lacking for a long time. I miss when Sonic had that sense of compulsory energy; that feel of "we're doing this?!...Well, hell yeah!" This video was wonderfully nostalgic. Massive thanks for helping me to remember the wild ride this game was. Also, Egg Emperor uses a lance, not a sword. You can recognize them by how unloved they are.
refreshing to see someone on the internet who actually understands the concept of "just because i like [thing] does not mean [thing] is good" (and vice versa)
30:53 This was right after Shadow saw a destroyed robot version of himself, so I think the line is fine. Also Rouge started a fight with Team Chaotix because she thought they were after Eggman’s treasure, she says something along those lines right before the fight starts.
I think I broke my PS2 disc by replaying the egg fleet act so much. Like, I didn't even get to the final ending with metal Sonic; I just kept replaying these levels
Heroes was actually my first Sonic game; heck, I think one of my first console games or even Video games in general I ever played. So it holds a special place in my heart, and I still think it's great despite it's flaws. It's also really shaped my expectations for Sonic games as I've discovered, in terms of gameplay and story; which is probably why I found Unleashed to be the first Sonic game released in my lifetime that I bounced off of, and have only been bouncing harder off of Generations, Lost World, and Forces as they each move further towards the basics and away from more complicated elements of the story other games built up. Anyway, I actually think I enjoyed the game a bit more than you: probably helped that I wasn't exactly good at the game (remember, first console game), so I switched stories whenever I got stuck on one. I remember Team Sonic & Dark's Power Plant levels get me on their rising plasma traps. As such, I had no issues with Team Rose because they were the first Team I completed the game with, followed by Team Chaotix, who helped me get a feel for the game. I then naturally beat Team Sonic and finally Team Dark, and moved on to the epic final boss. The game's something special man.
31:04 For real though, Sonic was more surprised to see Amy at the end of Power Plant than he was to see a guy he thought was dead
Well I mean at the haunted house afterwards the reason why tails was scared of ghosts is because they realized after this shadow was supposed to be dead.
Heroes is probably the closest thing we'll get to 'classic Sonic' aesthetics in 3D. It's so colourful, creative and surrealist. Really reminds me of the Genesis games.
true
colors got close too imo
@@ctpp64 agreed!
It has a imaginex style that I do not like, it’s too plasticy
U kinda forgot of Sonic Lost World
I've always liked Sonic Heroes more than I feel most do, I just think it has an incredibly energy. The soundtrack is so, so good and the visuals I think are really gorgeous for the time - and even if the core gameplay isn't as exciting as the best of 3D Sonic, at least Sonic Team actually COMMITTED to a gameplay style and didn't bog it down with silly gimmicks like so many other 3D Sonic games. I think the game gets a really bad rap, it's not amazing but it's not bad at all
I think that Sonic Heroes is the best Sonic game in my opinion. It's always been my favorite. I grew up with it.
It's my favorite sonic game! Esp the pvp mode. Rose and Tails were a blast. Or miles? Omfg I'm 27 and I was asking this same question at 12 LOL
@@RavanaMuse I'm 24 and I been saying Tails all my life😂
@Freddy Voorhees i thought the game was meh as a kid but i actaully love it more as an adult
This game was one of my favourites on the GameCube. I had just turned 12 and the idea that I could play as not only Sonic but 11 other characters was mind blowing. I spent so long in the Casino level because I just loved the aesthetic and music. I’m not actually sure I ever completed the game though, and I may have to rectify that… at the age of 29.
go for it. the game is incredibly casual when compared to other Sonic games, so you most likely wont struggle at all. at least that was my experience
@@spimbles F### Mystic Mansion though. *ESPECIALLY* the Team Chaotix version, both missions (ESPECIALLY the EX one).
I was only 6 when this game came out, I never completed it, it was just way to hard for me. I got stuck on the lava level for years and just lost interest lmao
@@mattgonzalez1796 so true. That level was bullshit
I'm also 29. I remember being so enthralled with this game, then when I would go back to SA or SA2B, I'd remember why I preferred those two over this game.
If it's one thing I absolutely love about Sonic Heroes is that the levels have a sense of scale and being just memorable. For that alone I can ignore all the other flaws.
Like a true adventure, I love Seaside Sea.
Despite all the negatives stacked against it compared to it's adventure counterparts I just adore the scenery and the spectacle that there is in Sonic Heroes. It's also why I Love rail canyon even though in gameplay alot of people hate it. But because of how it's done and how fun it is to speed blitz I enjoyed it regardless.
The scenery doesn't mask the extremely copy and paste level design throughout most of it. Since you spend more time in areas on general, it also highlights the finer detail issues that much more. Suffice to say, I feel it is one of the uglier games when taking everything into consideration and not just the surface level aesthetic.
The soundtracks are really good, like Mystic Mansion, i cannot stop listening to this one as it's so catchy.
@@bebopknux5857 Negatives stacked against it compared to adventure? What? SA1 and 2 have more negatives in them than heroes. Idk what you mean
This games story when compared to how future ones do it just feels passionate. Forces, Colors, and Lost World feel like they are making fun of themselves while Heroes instead revels in its cheese with positive energy.
I think it's the sincerity behind it. Heroes can get super corny at times but you can't help but have a little smile because it's fully played straight (and also not too long most of the time), nowadays a lot of franchise have this strange sense of detachment whenever something cheesy pops up, either not wanting to commit to it or trying to play it ironically with the "haha it's just a kids game so stupid amirite fellas?" so at best you're indifferent and at worse you just want to skip the whole scene.
@@MegaGlassguy holy shit sonic is the video game equivalent to Rick and morty in that aspect
Self awareness is becoming so common that nowadays most media feels like it's trying to cinemasins itself. It's nice to find something that plays its cheese completely straight
Sonic Colors might be the most unfunny Sonic game in existence,half the time I just wanted the cutscenes to end already.
My opinion on Heroes has gone back and forth like crazy over the years, and now it's up there as one of my favorites...provided I have access to save states to mitigate the jank. For all of its issues, I think Heroes strikes kind of a beautiful balance in gameplay variety with the 3 formations (once you know how to best use each one at least). The stages are amazing aside from Casino Park, Bingo Highway and Rail Canyon (which are unfortunately all back to back so you get a bit of a slog halfway through). If I could change the course of Sonic's history, I think I'd have a direct Heroes sequel happen after the first that would take the fundamental gameplay, polish it all up, adjust the roster in a way that makes each team a bit more distinct mechanically (think how knuckles and omega differ from big and vector and apply that more to the other formation characters).
Casino Park and Bingo Highway can burn in hell. Those levels caused me so much pain....
The biggest way they differentiated the power characters was by having them attack in different ways and have their combos be different. Plus some of their animations, like gliding, differ. So it's not about giving them different moves entirely, but maybe tweaking the effects or animations of their moves in order to make the speed and flight characters feel different from the others in their type. Similar to how all of the supers basically do the same thing, but all look different and have different secondary effects.
I think it'd be fun to have Team Rose with Amy focusing on her hammer acrobatics and Cream focusing on Chao stun attacks. Maybe give cream more ammo with her thunder shot because of the Chao and to play into Team Rose being the easier story. Like, Cream only has Big and Amy, but gains Chao as you level her up throughout the level. Even just having Amy use her hammer jump as her homing attack instead of the base homing attack could help. Maybe she could get more height out of her homing attacks because of her hammer jump attacks.
Shadow could use chaos control rather than a homing attack, meaning it's harder to keep momentum while attacking but maybe give him another chaos ability to help him get back up to speed, probably as part of his tornado spin. That or have his tornado attack send out chaos spears to deal some additional chip damage to whatever enemy you're not flipping over. Meanwhile, Rouge could be useful for pickpocketing rings from enemies with her attacks. This could play into Team Dark generally being a harder mode. Maybe make rings in the world a little more sparse outside light dash areas so Rouge would not only stun, but help keep the team alive.
I think a bigger focus on Espio being a ninja could help with him, and they started to do that in the base game. His tornado attack makes him invisible for a short time and he does use shuriken when doing some of his leveled up attacks. I do like how they give Charmy some new platforms only he can use. That does help him feel a bit different. Maybe giving hidden extra paths with that could help with better differentiating him more. Since he's a bee, they could maybe make his thunder shot have a little more power so it does some more damage while also stunning. I find them to be the hardest to really make unique as opposed to the other teams.
So basically the good parts are really good and the bad parts are really bad…
That’s pretty much how I remember this game myself. When this came out though I was finally old enough to recognize bad gameplay and the bad outweighed the good to me
@@wozthescott2804 for me I can only say that about bingo highway for team sonic/dark.
@@LeUberTroll the only “bad” i see is the slipperlyness of characters (especially near edges of platforms and in special stages) as well as how the game gets bland halfway through the 4 playthroughs. Those combined with level pieces here and there don’t really equate to more bad overall from what I see. Its so weird how this game creates extremes with people’s views of it. I don’t understand how it does it.
Kinda crazy how strong the flight characters can be. That maxed out thunder shoot is insane.
Level 3 Fly characters are basically “I GOT DA POWAH O’ GAWD” and I love it.
@@jtlego1 Level 1 they are the worst characters for combat, only good for ferrying the others across gaps. But once you get them to level 3 they become monsters.
Fun fact even a level 2 flight character can solo Egg Emperor in its entirety and not take any damage
@@Soniman001 this, always use to cheese that boss with tails
This is unrelated to the game but your voice is ridiculously soothing to listen to
It's Halo man! Love your stuff. Have a nice day!!
Sometimes I turn on his videos and just fall asleep
It's, like, half of the reason I listen to his videos.
My exact thought
He's like a mellowed out Nerrel
I have so much nostalgia for this game. My favourite memory is still thinking Knuckles shoulds "SHIT! ROCK! YEAH!" During his punch combo
Meanwhile I thought he shouted "SITH! ROCK! FEEL IT!"
@@alexc4003 i thought he said shift, does he actually say shit?
When I played this as a kid my mom always thought Knuckles said Shit 😅
man, I still hear it to this day.
Hahahahah memory unlocked I totally forgot about that part 😂 my favorite memory is listening to the title song on repeat for hours because I would just leave it up on my TV since my game would be erased if I turned off my Xbox (the memory card was fucked up)
there has never been a more true first 5 words to a video title
I'm choosing to ignore the last one
Same ☺️
Don't worry, so is the entire fanbase.
Sonic Adventure 2 is a Loveable Masterpiece
Sonic Heroes is a Loveable
game
I think the in-stage dialogue adds a ton of charm to these characters, hearing Sonic and Shadow get spooked by ghosts while Charmy simply laughs at them always gives me a warm smile
When I see this game I'm reminded when Omega had personality once, he wasn't just generic robot 3637 AND was actually funny. Whenever he shows up in the newer games with his generic robot sounds to remind us that he's indeed a robot (as if it wasn't obvious enough) I roll my eyes. It was especially soo bad in 06 and Forces.
Same, I absolutely love Omega in Heroes.
Some other thing I've noticed in later games is how janky his animations look, I get that he's a robot but there was something incredibly satisfying in how he moved in Heroes and even Shadow (the ballerina spin has no right being as badass as it is). In 06 his robotic movements are slow to a painful degree, and while he's a bit faster in Forces he still suffers from that same sudden limitation of movements which just doesn't suit him.
"insert robot noise here"
Omega only exists to assist Shadow's characterwriting, change my mind.
@@lpfan4491 He was actually created because there was no other existing character at the time that would fit the team dynamic with Shadow and Rouge. Just like how Cream was created for Team Rose, although in her case they managed to introduce her prior thanks to the Advance games.
26:19 They're not looking for snails, why would eggman task team chaotix with hunting snails? That makes no sense. They're looking for hermit crabs, which is much more logical
Sarcasm level 100 haha
They should search for hedgehogs not for crabs
Advice for anyone playing this game: In the special stages use the power character (gathers the most orbs) and HOLD the boost button down this will effectively change all of the special stages to easy mode
I'd love to hear more. Is there, perhaps, a playthrough of Sonic Heroes featuring you and three other gamers where you definitely don't avoid talking about the game at all costs until giving in to Eggfleet cause of how sublime it is?
Funny you should say that ua-cam.com/video/Jr7COGiYYyw/v-deo.html
Underrated comment
Ok, but why was Ryan wearing red underwear?
@@hansgretl1787 Come on, we already know why...it's communist propaganda.
That playthrough is legendary
Personally, I feel like Heroes IS the unofficial Adventure 3. It follows the reduction in gameplay variety that happened between 1 and 3, but also suffered the same sort of gameplay issues.
It started development as such. I mean even just in general you can see it has the same spirit, but thwy had to turn it down a bit
I'm Honestly pissed that air fleet wasn't in Generations.
yeah, seaside hill is probably my favorite sonic location to date but it’s weird they put it in a game with green hill, when they have relatively similar color schemes/aesthetics
@@deanmoriarty6015 it would have fit perfectly as well.
@@deanmoriarty6015 Because it's what people chose
Fun fact: In sonic heroes: all the eggman fights are not eggman, but rather metal sonic, or specifically, Neo metal sonic. You save him at the end of team chaotix' story because he was overthrown.
"I'm 23 years old.." Okay, thought you were 35 or something. Your voice is super deep.
he was born on Dec 1, 97
Same
Yeah it's been very obvious he was in his 20s based on the games he talks about playing in his childhood. If he was in his 30s he'd have be talking about NES games when he was very young among other things. If someone starts talking about 3D era games as childhood games it kind of gives it away.
@@Furluge Not necessarily. I’d expect more of the N64/PS1 and maybe a bit of SNES/Genesis. You’re talking about the 90’s for people in their early to mid 30’s, at least in terms of when they were old enough to understand and play video games.
Yeah, that one kind of knocked me out of my trance lol
That Ocean Palace music.... man it hits me right in the nostalgia.
33:23 The Sonic Paradox team had a great justification for why Team Chaotix would want to fight Team Dark. In Grand Metropolis, they just got done destroying all of Eggman's robots in the area, so it makes sense that upon seeing Omega, they'd assume he's on their hit list as well.
When you started talking about all the little techniques to avoid things like the slippery physics, I really felt that! Just the mention of them let me know how much you love the game. I played the hell out of this game as a kid and spent hours getting all A ranks, and trying to get a super fast time in Rail Canyon. Now when I go back to it, I either play Dark or Chaotix, and despite the frustration I love this game with my whole heart. Thanks for the great video :)
Agreed here, I feel like Sonic Heroes' idea and playability could have stayed in the over for longer or get worked for a following game. Though repetitive the levels give a feeling of progression and adventure, the characters themselves are fun and play well and though a junk, the story is a good junk.
Also I really want to see more of the Chaotix.
...Okay, but I still shouldn't have to come up with techniques to avoid the game's shortcomings that are built into the game at its core.
@@Essu_ and I agree! Wasnt trying to justify bad physics, just commenting on the relatability, as I used to do all those things as a kid too (and still do).
The best of Heroes is trying to A-rank the game, especially on Power Plant, Mystic Manor, and Final Fortress.
I absolutely love the Heroes OST, nostalgic and so good
I think this game is responsible for why I love character action games: particularly one where you can switch styles on the fly. DMC, Yakuza 0, and Bayonetta's weapon sets are the pinnacle of action gaming because they allow me to adapt to a situation or do flashy combos and moves on the fly.
This is where it started
I commented on one of his community posts last week "Still waiting for that Sonic Heroes Retrospective" and I couldn't be more happy. Thanks King K lol
Hey mall, Swott here.
Hi yall, Woz here.
I remember getting this game back from the store on a rainy day when I was around 6 or 7 years old. The music, the settings, the themes were so great, definitely one of my best gaming nights growing up, and I wish I could go back in time and play this for the first time again.
This game brings back so many memories... I loved it back when I couldn't think about games critically haha
This is the single most honest and self aware comment on youtube.
Gratz
@@GuitarSlayer136
I kinda miss being able to fall in love with a game based on premise alone.
Like, playing a mech game nowadays, I'd be wondering if the sense of scale is supported by enemies and the environment or if it's functionally indistinct from just running around, I'd be analyzing the controls and the balancing and the pacing. But as a kid, I'd have been all "I'm DRIVING A ROBOT! WHOOOOOO!"
this is how I feel about some of my favorite Sonic games now
@@Mayeur000Donz I miss not knowing the limit of games. Back when playing Sonic FELT like an adventure just because the young mind could imagine a thousand different possibilities and somehow still be suprised at every new thing.
every zone in this game inspired me so much creatively as a kid, ESPECIALLY that final level. this game just had so much going for it. I also spent way too much time trying to find a hidden chao garden after all my time in adventure 2 tho lmao
Man, I played the crap out of this game as a kid. I was hype when I unlocked the true final boss for the first time.
It’s janky, had underwhelming bosses, and I hated the haunted zone, but I still think this game is over-hated. It’s nice and arcady perfect for being in between big Sonic games.
I refuse to accept anyone beat this game as a kid
@@mitchellhoward3209 If you cared enough back then you could do it as a kid cause even I pulled it off. Kids have more patience in completing games
@@mitchellhoward3209 First game I ever finished and I was 9 years old, don't underestimate the youth when they love something.
@@mitchellhoward3209 this game is laughably patronizing still throwing formation signs at you in the final level as if it isn't obvious by the 12th stage. You can only possibly die to bottomless pits as sonic by fucking up really badly
@@thatitalianlameguy2235 guess I wasn't as epic as you back in elementary school
I think Sonic's calmness to Shadow being back made sense. He's just excited rather than shocked, a pleasant surprise and a chance to butt heads with a rival again. I really love the line and the delivery of "talk about being stubborn and full of surprises!".
In the Japanese version he actually calls back to Sonic's line in SA2 from the final Sonic Vs Shadow battle. He says something along the line of "stubbornness is my saving grace" then when he sees Shadow in heroes he says something like "I guess stubbornness is your saving grace too!"
Ah this was and still is my favorite Sonic game, nostalgia is a hell of a thing
I totally read that like “cocaine is a hell of a drug” from that Chapelle sketch.
Because you didn't mention it: the reason why Metal Sonic steals Froggy, Cheese, and Chocola is because Chao are related to Chaos and Froggy used to be part Chaos. Metal Sonic needed to copy their data for his ultimate form. That's what brings Team Rose into the story. It's only mentioned very briefly in the cutscene that follows beating Egg Albatross as Team Rose.
Regarding the issue of unique levels for the team: I believe one way to handle this would've been to simply assign different acts to different teams, weaving the story line together. Sort of like if you played Sonic Adventure 2 chronologically.
You’re a lovable mess :^)
You too.
bruh momento
Haedox and KingK bromance
So when's the wedding?
Thought you were talkin about square space for a sec
I'm so happy to see someone praising Sonic Heroes, it really deserves a rerelease at some point soon as over the years I've seen so many more people appreciating it for what it is rather than pointing out its flaws and being negative. the early 2000's era of sonic really is under rated sometimes, it had a charm and style that we probably won't see again, but this game was defiantly the peak of that. Great video!
Is there a specific reason to why we never got Sonic Adventure 3? It genuinely baffles me, sounds terrible but surely it would make them a ton of money?
Because Sonic fans taught the higher ups that they could pump halfbaked shit like this to the masses and it would be considered "up there with the greats".
And now all you get is halfbaked shit. This may be the only time I don't side with the consumer because the consumer is smiling with a big shit mustache and asking for more.
Probably because of Sonic Heroes.
@@GuitarSlayer136 Yeah true, makes me sad. As someone who grew up with adventure 1&2 and heroes i really don't enjoy the more modern games. They just seem a bit soulless to me and that's probably why
@@StuffAboutSandwiches that’s cap 🧢
Real Deal heroes is far better than the adventure games imo
You always treat every title with so much respect. It really points out all the nuances that go into making these games. Always appreciate your opinions. Keep it up man.
Heroes is one of the most *underrated* sonic games ! I love it so much. It’s my second favorite sonic game after sonic adventure 2 ! I want a sequel so bad 🔵🟡🔴
I had received this game as a gift back in 2005 along with my gamecube that I still have today. Great video, narration and talking points for a game that brings back incredible nostalgia and memories 17 years later
This is my exact feelings about the game! I love replaying this game, and I can't explain to other people why I love it so much. Something about it just hits my brain like a drug lol
I was in primary school when Heros came out and I remember there being so much hype for it, and how excited I was to bring it home. It's definitely got a place in my heart despite how much of a mess it was.
I don't really have any stock in this game, but it's just nice to hear some positivity. Thanks for being a certified videogame enjoyer.
It's always so melancholic watching videos on nostalgic games like this, feels like I'm going back in time...
Fluid character switching reminds me of fluid weapon switching in games like Doom.
I tend to compare it to The Wonderful 101 but I see what you mean. It can be interesting to tackle things with multiple characters or weapons but Sonic Heroes limits it a bit by not allowing switching midair or during a number of other states.
Usually for good reason I imagine since it doesn't need more bugs and sometimes plays into balance with the cannons.
Team Chaotic was my favourite team. I just liked how I could turn invisible and have my teammates to all the heavy lifting for me.
Same, when he said that Team Sonic was the standard, I was thinking "speak for yourself!" Don't get me wrong I still love playing as the other teams but I always found Espio to be cooler than Sonic or Shadow.
Seriously, I have so many nostalgic memories of this game alongside Adventure DX. Seeing this just makes my inner child smile.
It also has to be among the first games I played where I genuinely started to care about the soundtrack.
"But hey - sometimes, it doesn't make sense. Love doesn't make sense. It doesn't follow a set of rules. I love Sonic Heroes for the mess that it is, and I think I came to terms with that a long time ago."
One of the best notes you've ever ended a video on. A brilliant video, King! ^^
Weeb
Sonic Heroes will always be one of the most memorable games I played as a kid and I’ll always love it for that no matter how objectively bad or good it might be.
Ahhh, simpler times…
I knew you'd bring up egg fleet. The intro cutscenes blew my mind and are still so epic to see
I love Heroes cutscenes.
3:00 EXACTLY. This makes me think of Sonic Unleashed and Sonic and the Black Knight... Two games that people HATED (some even still hate it to this day) all because they were weird. "What? Sonic turns into a werewolf? HUH? Sonic doesn't need a sword to be cool, what is this garbage?" But both those games showcase Sonic's inspiring personality better than most Sonic games, they had a ton of really great aspects that people ignore because "WEIRD." In Sonic Unleashed, the gameplay for the day levels is some of the best Boost levels in the franchise. In Black Knight, they had an incredibly deep and thought-provoking narrative and very stylized gameplay (plus, more playable characters than just Sonic)!
Sonic and the Black Knight and Unleashed is probably the best Performances that the 4Kids Voice Actors put in during their entire run as the Sonic Characters as well, as another tidbit to back up your point.
I’ve been binging your videos the last few days and this one genuinely gave me goosebumps, I played this game for YEARS and you made all my memories rush back
Thank you for that
something abt that part where you zoomed out and exhaustedly whispered "what a thrill" really spoke to my soul
Knuckles repeating "What a wild ride" in 3 different locations almost made me do a spit-take.
To be fair, he’s been cooped up by his lonesome on a floating island for most of his life and hasn’t really explored the world for a reason not relating to the master emerald up until this game. Everything is going to be a “wild ride” to him
"Why do we care what it SHOULD be?"
God if only more people adopted this mentality regarding video games
I still own this game and I absolutely love it. There’s a few janky bits here and there but it is how ever many years old 😄
Someone who appreciates Final Fortress and Egg Fleet as final levels. I agree. They're great final levels. Up until Titanic Monarch in Mania, I had them as my favorite final levels in Sonic.
I mostly agree with this entire assessment. I'll never understand why so many Sonic fans disregard this entry so easily. Also, from your comments about SA2, it is refreshing to see another Sonic fan that doesn't hate the treasure and mech stages. I think they are highly underrated.
I grew up on Heroes and I'm just now playing through it properly. There's so much to love about this game, from the bright visuals to the fun cutscenes, to the music to the level aesthetics. And watching someone with a good control of the game, it's satisfying! While the mechanics are a slightly hard fit for the speed-based franchise, it's conceptually really fun, but poor controls and some frustrating level design and physics from all the factors that were in play make it just how you describe! If everything worked a bit more as intended, it would be the perfect adaptation of the classic titles!
Man, you made me genuinely miss when Ska was a music genre that games used a ton. Now its rare.
team chaotix literally had a mission to destroy ALL egman’s robots like two stages before the team dark meeting, they could’ve used that as their reason to fight
This game is pure nostalgia. Not sure any newcomer would enjoy it, but it is sooooo fun to revisit every now and then.
Glad i'm not the only one that thinks Egg Fleet is one of the best sonic levels ever.
its like if Sky Deck and Final Rush had an honor student baby.
Its waay better than Sky Deck tho
Now that I see it from a new angle, having enemies that don't go down in one hit makes sense. Sure, sonic is supposed to be strong, but he's not abnormal in most tv shows. It usually takes a few good bops to take down most bots in shows like satam or x
I’m glad someone else can see what I see in this. It’s my favorite 3D Sonic game and to see the highs and lows discussed like this makes me want to jump back in and experience it all over again!
I have always had a love for this game! This was my only true Sonic game that I had growing up, and maybe that made me used to it, but I've always respected how it has a consistent goal of "Race to the goal" even with sections that require you to defeat enemies before moving on. Nice to hear what others think about it though!
Oddly enough, team rose it's prime speed run material. Easy routes to learn, surprisingly fast but not enough to lose control.
That title is so extremely accurate...
I'm so sad this game never got a sequel. Like what did omega do with metal sonic? The levels were so creative as well as the platforming formula. This was my intro to sonic when I was 8
Aside from the god awful character battles and the lack of polish. This is still my favourite video game of all time.
EVERYTHING from the level design, the mechanics, the amount of layers, the visuals. These are by far the best I’ve ever experience from this whole franchise and I always find myself coming back.
That’s why Sonic Heroes is THE GOAT! 🙏🏻 🔥🐐
Somehow I managed to miss the sonic adventure games and never played them as a kid, but what I did have was sonic heroes. And alongside ratchet and clank, its one of those childhood games I have vivid memories of
I think team rose was significantly slower (even Amy). I remember getting the emeralds with less effort as team sonic etc. Sure, getting to the stage is easier with Amy's team but the actual special stage seemed to be harder. I have vivid memories of being confused about why I could beat the stages with even team shadow but not team rose.
I had that same experience trying to get the emerald from Mystic Mansion
It's doable, but yeah Team Rose is significantly slower than Team Sonic. In fact, so is Team Chaotix.
You can see this in the multiplayer versions of the Emerald Challenge, where Rose and Chaotix will fall behind in auto-running sections. And IIRC the game straight up rates them based on speed with a 3-star system). Team Sonic and Team Dark have equivalent speeds, Chaotix is slightly slower, and Rose is the slowest.
Needing to play the game with all four teams to unlock the last story really just feels like it's running counter to the whole point of making the different teams act as difficulty levels. That coupled with the fact that each individual story doesn't truly get resolved here and its more of its own thing makes me wonder why they couldn't change the unlock requirements to instead be "beat ANY story, collect all seven Chaos Emeralds".
It's not even like that'd mess with the reveal too much, every single story has some clues towards Eggman's identity, some of which get pretty blatant, and Eggman "dying" at the end is automatically a dead giveaway.
This is the sonic game I've the most nostalgia. I would love a remake
The nostalgia of playing this on a ps2 as a kid is unreal
As is often (almost always) the case with this franchise, I find that Heroes has appealing ideas and level design, that is marred by how these ideas are executed in a practical sense. The sheer amount of jank and wonky collision detection are really hard to ignore in Heroes, more so than in other 3D titles. I suppose this is just something we need to accept with Sonic.
Loved your perspective on Sonic Heroes. It took my back to my late middle school years where I'd spend hours upon hours A ranking everything trying to unlock super hard mode. A always enjoyed the gameplay and alot of your points made me laugh because it was fun to know I wasn't the only one who suffered from the game's crazy amount of glitches. Your video took me back to a good time in life and for that you have my thanks.
Cut out the nostalgia.
The day has come you finally looked at my favorite sonic game, thank you for reviewing this loveable mess.
I think the one thing I miss most about the early 3D experiments (okay, so just Sonic Adventure and the one I don't talk about) was the idea of a hub map. It was fun having those regular people being all totally out of place, and having a map with no timer or immediate objective to detract from just naively wandering around.
When I was a kid, Team Rose was my favorite team funnily enough. I understand the flaws with it considering that it’s actually just baby mode, but Amy was my favorite character in the Sonic series so I was very happy that I could play with her as a main character throughout the whole game
Similar for me--I love the Team Chaotix characters, and while a mission mode is good in concept, it's usually a bit punishing in practice.
Dude same. I just really liked Amy as a kid so I mostly played their story the most. Hell, they were the only story I managed to finish as a kid. (I played heroes on the ps2 and I never had a memory card so I would wake up at like 6AM just to see how far I can go) The furthest I got with team Sonic was probably hang castle or the eggfleet one. But for chaotix and dark, I could barely finish lmao.
@@jonathanlgill on the other hand I still stand that Charmy beating up Eggman as the credits starts rolling was the unexpected reward that made me fully glad I went through with that campaign.
I think another aspect of the game that can make it enjoyable is that there's a lot of weird jank in the game that can be really fun to take advantage of if you know about it. By looking up stuff about the game, you can learn neat tricks, such as rapidly swapping between speed and power while rail grinding to build speed, completely skipping a few pinball tables, and using a glitch to build team blast meter super quickly. I don't know if this element of the game would resonate with a lot of people, but I've always found exploits like these super fun to utilize.
The only things I can remember about this game are that I got it for $15 on PS2 and I could only ever beat Team Rose's storyline all the way through
Sonic Heroes is perfect for someone with younger siblings. You can have one do the Team Sonic Story, little brother does Team Rose, I do team Dark. Everyone gets their own section of the game to do.
"Why should we care what it should be, if it's good and it's fun?"
Beautiful!
As my first sonic game, this one will always hold a special place in my heart. I'm really bad with words so hearing someone manage to vocalize everything I love about it and acknowledge that it's still great in spite of its faults made my day. Thank you for this and all your hard work :)
One of the things that I think makes Heroes such a contentious entry is how it influenced later games in the series. When Sonic Team included Green Hill as an unlockable in SA2, it was with the conceit that they would never return to it again, and that they were moving on to a bright, all new, all different future for Sonic levels. Then the very next game marketed itself as "RETURNING TO SONIC'S ROOTS GUYS LOOK CHECKERBOARD HILLS" and ever since then, Sega has had this misguided fascination with "Sonic's roots," despite never really seeming to understand what actually made those games good in the first place (except maybe Generations.) Add to that the weird new focus on combat turning half of Sonic 06 (the half that isn't a buggy, awful mess) into Sonic homing attacking enemies until a switch is available or some other scripted thing happens. And don't even get me started on half of Unleashed.
Heroes is frustrating to me because it's so close to being an amazing 3D Sonic game, but I know they'll never remake it or fix it in any way. It'll always be the Sonic game where if you don't walk into the loops right, you go flying through them.
But... Sonic Heroes rehashed SA1's beach, not Green Hill.
...guess what? Sonic Adventure 2 was also promoted as a "return to Sonic's roots," as a way to sidestep the fact that they were removing the ADVENTURE Fields that gave the sub-series its name. xD I think they made the claim for literally every mainline game released in the 2000s.
The funny thing about heroes is to unlock everything you would need to do each stage at minimum 8, once in the story for each team and once with alternate objectives, and that's assuming you get an A rank and the emerald on your first go which you need to unlock super hard mode which rewards you with being able to play all of it AGAIN but much harder than team dark this time :v
Wait a minute, this isn’t a Sonic Heroes Retrospective. This is just…
GRAND METROPOLIS.
Great video by the way.
I wouldn't say metal sonic comes out of nowhere at the end. He is seen at the end of the canyon levels for Team Dark and Team Sonic. Tails notes that the "Eggman" they defeated wasn't one of his regular robots as it is melting. Afterwards we see Metal Sonic form from the liquid metal all T1000 like. Even saying that he had copied the teams data. Getting the data of the Ultimate Lifeform was not something he was expecting but is something he took full advantage of. At the end of Team Rose, you can hear metal sonic say that he has collected the data of the Chao and Chaos (which is why he kidnapped Froggy, as there was still some residual Chaos essence in the poor guy). And finally the end of Team Chaotix where it is revealed that their client was Eggman. When you do the Egghawk fight as Team Dark, "Eggman" remarks as if he has never encountered Omega before. Even though that is impossible if that was really Eggman. During the add clear boss fight as Team Chaotix in the Haunted Castle, the "Client" gets insulted when Chaotix insults the good doctor. Mix this with the Client telling Chaotix to kill "Eggman" and you can piece together the conspiracy. Also in Haunted Castle, there is a statue of Eggman that when you get flipped upside down, is "replaced" by a statue of Metal Sonic during Team sonic and Team Darks playthroughs. Symbolizing that Metal Sonic has gone rogue. Imprisoned Eggman and took over his empire. In terms of the Story I would recommend going Rose > Sonic > Dark > Chaotix. Chaotix does ruin the twist if you do it early. As the other 3 stories leaves it vague if Metal Sonic is working for his creator like in Sonic CD or if he is on his own. The statue in Haunted Castle hints towards the latter narratively.
Most of the clues towards Metal Sonic being the main antagonist are in the dialogue. So if you are not paying attention you do miss most of them.
Loved this game so much growing up. One of my most played gamecube games for sure
Heroes was a game I played the hell out of as a kid, so its super nostalgic to me. Even despite its jank I can't help but love it. And I actually went back and played through it fully a little while back (including the true ending I could never get to as a kid) and I will say I enjoyed it. Not the greatest thing I've ever played, but I still had a good time, which is enough for me.
This game brings back so much nostalgia omg 💙❤💛
I know you mention at the end of the Sonic Adventure 2 retrospective in this set that there couldn't really be a Sonic Adventure 3 at this point, but I would sincerely love a Sonic Heroes 2 with the same sort of SA1-SA2 idea refinement for itself. Sonic Heroes is my favorite Sonic game because of the team mechanic and the concepts it allows, and thinking about how outstanding it would be with the SA2 treatment where every team (either these same trios or changed ones) had their own set of levels and mechanics with a properly interwoven story culminating in "everyone do your part" at the end would be beyond perfection for me.
Ah yes, the game where every character put Vaseline on their foreheads
11:59-12:05
This man just gets it.
And the showcase for the Egg Fleet really takes me back to when storming Eggman's flying fortresses was this grand event. The way Sonic and team are just there, ready and raring to break some bots-ship by ship-really hits a sense of awesome juvenility it feels like the series has been lacking for a long time. I miss when Sonic had that sense of compulsory energy; that feel of "we're doing this?!...Well, hell yeah!"
This video was wonderfully nostalgic. Massive thanks for helping me to remember the wild ride this game was.
Also, Egg Emperor uses a lance, not a sword. You can recognize them by how unloved they are.
refreshing to see someone on the internet who actually understands the concept of "just because i like [thing] does not mean [thing] is good" (and vice versa)
30:53 This was right after Shadow saw a destroyed robot version of himself, so I think the line is fine.
Also Rouge started a fight with Team Chaotix because she thought they were after Eggman’s treasure, she says something along those lines right before the fight starts.
I think I broke my PS2 disc by replaying the egg fleet act so much.
Like, I didn't even get to the final ending with metal Sonic; I just kept replaying these levels
Sonic Heroes was definitely 1 of a kind. I want a sequel!
Heroes was actually my first Sonic game; heck, I think one of my first console games or even Video games in general I ever played. So it holds a special place in my heart, and I still think it's great despite it's flaws.
It's also really shaped my expectations for Sonic games as I've discovered, in terms of gameplay and story; which is probably why I found Unleashed to be the first Sonic game released in my lifetime that I bounced off of, and have only been bouncing harder off of Generations, Lost World, and Forces as they each move further towards the basics and away from more complicated elements of the story other games built up.
Anyway, I actually think I enjoyed the game a bit more than you: probably helped that I wasn't exactly good at the game (remember, first console game), so I switched stories whenever I got stuck on one. I remember Team Sonic & Dark's Power Plant levels get me on their rising plasma traps. As such, I had no issues with Team Rose because they were the first Team I completed the game with, followed by Team Chaotix, who helped me get a feel for the game. I then naturally beat Team Sonic and finally Team Dark, and moved on to the epic final boss. The game's something special man.