Turkey Tom Asks If He's A Bad Person And Hypocrite In Debate w/ Destiny And VG
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Last night on Destiny
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#Destiny
#Politics
#Debate
Nice of tom to let destiny come on stream so much lately
Yeah glad Toms calmed down a lil bit , he’s been such an Uber excited orbiter , it’s made him Irish , and I’ve watched him for years .
Irish?@@rooneyjagoboo
@@CheechoAswell , example of what happens when you comment quick and move on ,
Nope it wasn’t Irish , crush mebbe 🤣
@@rooneyjagoboobig dog what did you MEAN
@@elansleazebaganno as I put above , fek knows ✨
“You’re justifying a holocaust”
“I would cull carnivorous animals”
☠️☠️☠️ is this guy still for real or?
holocosting murder necessitaters is not holocosting innocent animals
The amount of cognitive dissonance VG exudes on the regular is hilarious
@@DavidCastillo-uq1jg ???
I don't agree with his stance, but it's still significantly more reasonable than "I know I'm taking part in what is by far the largest holocaust the world has ever seen, but mmmmmm bacon!!!"
This argument isn't dumb I don't think?
Vegan Gains isn't smart enough to understand the consequences of removing the apex predators. He proves that with his white tail deer argument. It was the eradication of wolves that caused the population explosion. He has the reasoning ability of a twelve year old boy.
Thank you
yup the ecosystem is just now starting to get better and the deer population is just now getting to a proper level with wolf populations raising enough to get some off the endangered list. i did reports on this 15-20 years ago and people still thought killing off the wolves would somehow be better once they started to come back. Alaska became an even bigger mess from it. thankfully they made it a law to not hunt them but to just relocate packs when they get too big or numerous to encourage the population in the rest of the states. and its done wonders.
Its dumb to me that destiny thinks that people who eat meat care when household pets get abused are these absolutely horrid hypocrite yet holds the position that he can eat meat and have this strange meta layer that humans are on a different plane.
Why can't the household pets be on a level above livestock but below humans?
destiny is a womans name.
Because you'd need to state what metric is being used to determine these different levels of moral consideration. People normally try and claim it's intelligence, but we know that's flawed. And what about animals that are common as both pets and food, like rabbits?
@@thegrinderman1090
There are traits that we obviously care about in aspects of morality (and by extension law) that we could set as parameters for valuing something. Self-awareness for example, would be a minimum requirement for agency (which agency is basically the only thing we care about from a moral aspect, at least in my opinion). That would make things like dogs and pigs at a different level than something like chickens or cattle. Also, most vegans do have a hierarchy for animals and it is almost always related to intelligence (either directly or indirectly).
Actually agree with this take a lot. Pets are above farm animal. It's just that simple.
@@kaelinbruningfulIt's not that simple when there's plenty of people with farm animals as pets lol. Even with farm animals, there are levels. Like horses.
@@kaelinbruningful if you were born in Korea you could have eaten dogs, I probably could have too
VG is more insane than I ever thought possible.
the genociding of carnivorous animals is crazy
@@dalooly why
@dharmatycoon8201 because that would lead to the destruction of the planet. Lmao. Take middle school biology. Carnivorous multicellular organisms have been around since life began. Vegan Gains is championing the collapse of thr biosphere because of his horrible moral compass.
Looks a little chubby to be as narcissistic as he is, must be all those grains he's eating lil
@dharmatycoon8201 Seriously? Predators play an important role in ecosystems as well and keep herbivore populations low enough that they don't destroy all of the vegetation in an area. Which would then cause the herbivores to starve and die anyway.
Idk why people care so much about the lives of non-plant life but think it's totally fine for plants to be killed. It is all life. And for all we know, plants may have much more consciousness than we can see. The ultimate truth is that all life is important and that destruction and creation are also important parts of the cycle of life. Judging people who eat meat or animals that prey on other animals is honestly ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding about how nature continues to function.
VG the type of dude to microwave his ice cream
Uh if you don’t microwave your tub of ice cream for 10 seconds to soften it up for scooping you are a peasant, dude
@@arthurporter131 just microwave the spoon bro. That way the ice cream stays colder longer.
Mad that someone figured out how to eat ice cream better instead of you.
@@DubcatcherAmazing My parents made me have a fear of microwaving spoons, they said it’d explode and never to do it💀
@@TwigCity My Oneida Renoir Pembrooke spoons can be microwaved and one time I left one of my forks embedded in some food and it microwaved just fine
As long as he's still postin main channel vids - im cool with Turkey Tom's Orbiter side hustle
Being logically consistent if he’s willing to cull carnivores then he’s basically saying he would be willing to cull any human that eats meat including his family, friends and the people he’s speaking to on this video…
In my view, there is a difference between someone killing an animal for consumption, and beating an animal for joy. This is why I can actually agree with vegans on the problems of the conditions of cattle/poultry farming. There is no need to be cruel even if the goal is eventually to end its life. Similar idea with the death penalty, just because we will be putting one to death, does not mean that torture is permissable.
I think Destiny has been on the internet too long. His jade comes out in these internet debates. "if you eat meat and get upset when the neighbor hits their dog, you're the worst kind of person." This is an insane, sociopathic thing to say...unless you've been doing internet-logic brain for 11 years...
Yeah my respect for him has dipped a bit
Yeah
Nah he's not tripping, he's saying if you dont care cuz it's an animal, you should be consistent in thinking things that happen to other animals is also fine, you can claim pigs and cows getting their throts slit is okay then immediately get mad that your neighbor kicked a dog, he's saying your a POS if your adamantly being a hypocrite like that. It's not online brain, it's just logical consistency
@@erickane457destiny is a moral anti realist… you know that right? Or no?
@@erickane457 exactly. Some of these fans just don’t want to admit to themselves that their position is inconsistent.
After listening to VG I am glad he has his perspective on vasectomies. He really is looking out for the world by making sure he doesn’t produce progeny. 😂
Do you really think the harm he does by going off the deep end with some of his views is worse than what a meat eater does? Like even if you believe he's abusing his pets by putting them on vegan diets (even though they're healthy), and even if we actually did start culling carnivores in whatever way his plan for that is, I'm not sure the total harm done would be worse than what just a regular meat eater does in their day to day life.
I disagree with him on many things, and find him to be a bit of an asshole, but if we're being serious, that's not worse than slaughtering sentient beings for pleasure multiple times a week for life.
@@thegrinderman1090what if i kill one elk , it generates about a years worth of food. When we farm for grain or anything we kill squirrels birds lizards whatever makes its way to it.therefore I prefer just eating large animals since death occurs in both outcomes might as well pick the one which has less death.
@@akxv9514large animals eat grain tho. When you eat livestock you waste all that vegetable the was farmed to raise the livestock. Omnivores who eat nothing but free range elk are probably .01% of all americans, any vegans would prefer people hunt cause it's far more humane than livestock industry.
@@AUstudios then we agree. I hunt for my food and usually it causes the least amount of harm possible.
@@akxv9514you've never been to a restaurant or grocery or fast food? Just straight elk?
VG is proof of the saying "you are what you eat."
VG's stance on carnivorous animals is absolute nuts. He's abusing his pets by feeding them vegan food. However good his intentions are I cannot take him seriously.
Biting the bullet on wild carnivores is absolutely insane and unhinged holy shit.
This conversation reminds me of a great nugget of wisdom.
"Now don't get me wrong, I love animals, but I like eatin' 'em more... fun to pet, better to chew"
Chickens do not stop laying eggs after 1-2 years lmao
Dude on the right (in the thumbnail) really needs to shave 🪒 his chest.
Rabbits, hamsters, various birds, as far as pets go: these are fine, _herbivorous_ options.
Why does VG insist on purchasing carnivorous animals and doing these weird science experiments on them?
...Of course judging by his Tiger culling take: I think he might actually just be crazy.
The position is completely valid wild animal suffering matters as much as human and livestock lives. If it causes overall harm then good then he’s not for it the position is that killing carnivorous animals spares more lives then taken and it’s inconsistent if a human should be defended from being killed by a animals but not another animal
@@rinneganofrage7206they don’t need to kill humans to survive
People who keep flying animals like birds in cages are weird. Idk where vg got his pets from but its very easy to get stuck with a stray cat or dog that you didn't seek out. At some point you find one living under your car or a friend pressures you into taking it
@@rinneganofrage7206 If you're gonna risk destabilizing the ecosystem to get rid of a predatory creature: at least start with mosquitoes instead of land mammals.
I wonder what would happen if science discovered that mashrooms and plants can feel pain and have some kind of consciousness. What would vegans eat?
Tel Aviv University researchers discovered that tomato plants “scream” when they're stressed out. This is said to happen when they don't receive adequate amounts of water - or when their stems are cut. However, the plant's screams cannot be heard by the human ear - as these veggies only emit high-frequency sounds.
@@RoloTumassi-jg9ej well lets hope they dont discover more cause VG is going to starve himself to death 😂
@@karljonson3287 .... dont incentivize me with promises like that :P
VG has made distinctions about degrees of consciousness hence why he doesn’t take issue w the consumption of bugs you guys can stop circle jerking now lol
@@RoloTumassi-jg9ejscream is a very loaded word to use here and most people don't use it that way. Plants lack a nervous system and brain last time I looked
Destiny is 100% wrong that eating meat for sustenance means that you can't be upset if someone is torturing animals. That's a wild take. Just about every meat eating animal forms bonds with others and tries to protect certain animals from harm. People can care about people or other animals and want them humanely killed. Most people don't want a dog to be tortured, why are they wrong if they eat meat?
What about eating a dog that was humanely killed?
@@notbob6922 If your concern is animals not being torture then you met that criteria.
@@notbob6922 humanely killed is an oxymoron
VeganGains thinks killing animals is bad unless your killing killer animals. This is hilarious.
is this the turkey tom channel now?
VG is wrong about deer overpopulation. Not only did we do reforesting and such, but we also killed off most of their predators.
I didnt know he made his dog and cat vegan.
Literal mental illness. Learning about that and the fact he wants to genocide all carnivores has pretty much made me write off everything he has to say about veganism. He is literally championing the collapse of the biosphere as we know it, just because of "moral superiority." Dude is in the same position as anti natalists.
Based
If breaking up woods with farmland would keep the deer population under control why does Iowa have some of the largest deer populations in the country?
The whole of VG’s argument hinges on his opposition agreeing that animals are entitled to human rights. He tries to then equate eating animals to cannibalism for shock value. It’s false equivalency. If you don’t give him the courtesy that animals deserve human rights, his argument falls apart.
Human rights involve democratic participation the right to arms etc. Babies still have rights to be protected from harm under the law, but they are incapable of participating in many other human rights because they can't communicate and have undeveloped brains. We already allow pets some rights, it is illegal most places to abuse animals, u even need a background check to get a dog sometimes. So we both believe animals deserve the right of protection under the law from abuse in cases, now we're just debating where on the spectrum their rights lie exactly.
Animals eat other animals. If you give them a pass, are you not also siding with them?
The only difference between a vegan and a carnivore is how much damage they want to do.
@@y0uCantHandleno, because I happen to believe humans are more capable of making moral judgements than animals are. Just like a child can't be tried for a crime the same as an adult. Same reason
@@AUstudios Your example proves that morals are subjective And reinforces that “the only difference is how much damage you are willing to do / accept “
If your child or pet animal kill’s someone, you can be liable. Even though you didn’t do it, you are their custodian, therefore we as a society agree that you should be held responsible.
But when it’s extended to nature for areas we are custodians for, you aren’t held liable.
If you are complacent in allowing _“billions / trillions of genocide”_ each and every year, are you not morally bound to prevent it? Being custodian, are you not responsible? VG believes so and said we should cull the perpetrators.
It’s self evident there is a moral difference for what is considered murder / Genocide.
That’s why we give a pass to nature and give ourselves a pass for farming.
@@AUstudios does vegnism extend to oysters? They don’t have any central nervous system…. They have no more capacity to experience pain or suffering than a tomato does. They are living but so are tomatoes.
Consistency makes a lot of people seem like sociopaths. The standard societal expectations is compassionate inconsistency.
I just dont view other animals as morally equal to us. I remove morality from food. Our species are omnivores and i dont really care otherwise.
Its not immoral to eat meat for nutrition.
Kicking a dog is immoral becaue There is no reason to do it and youre just an asshole.
All theese internet muppets lack logic
You almost never can remove morality from anything. Religions have made stuff like wearing two different kinds of cloth a moral issue. In the end everything can be moralized whether you want or not.
you remove morality from food, so there's nothing that you would ever consider immoral so long as it provides food?
@@vgpunk22I'm a human, that's not a human, that thing that's not human is tasty and provides me energy
That's as far as you need to go lol
@@foodsupply5071 it can be moralized but morality is inherently subjective. I just dont care
VG is abusing his pets while acting sanctimonious about carnivores eating meat lmao
I'm assuming his pets are rescues, and it's possible for them to be perfectly healthy on well-planned vegan diets with regular vet visits. I wouldn't personally put a cat on a vegan diet because it's difficult to get right. Dogs can be vegan no problem.
@@thegrinderman1090 dogs can be vegan and not die on the spot. That doesn't mean it's good for them.
@@johnd3687 My ex's dog was vegan. It was very intelligent and lived a long, happy life. What specific nutrients do they require for a diet to be 'good for them', which can't be obtained on a vegan diet?
@thegrinderman1090 specific amino acids like taurine. Also, it's bad for their emotional health.
@@johnd3687 That's false. A vegan diet for dogs includes taurine. And I assure you the vegan dog I knew ate a lot better (and more expensively) than any dog on standard meaty dog food.
Is it abuse to feed a dog a non-vegan diet of supermarket own-brand dog food?
Desinty's argument that abusing pets should not affect a meateater is kind of wild, or at least describring it as "the worst people ever". Like the difference is they're pets and we assign them more of a sentimental value in society, like as an actual social factor for humans compared to livestock. It's also implied in the names (livestock vs. pets), and I'm pretty sure dogs were used as companions for hunting even in ancient times. Maybe it's not completely logically consistent, but iirc he's not against "societal value" arguments.
I get calling it dumb or inconsistent maybe, but he's so extreme about it. If you have a cow as a pet a lot of meateaters would also feel bad if you abused it,. Maybe it's inconsistent but there is a pretty obvious reason to why. Also, needlessly harming animals is generally just frowned upon, if it's a pig or a dog doesn't matter that much. "Needlessly harming" here meaning not doing it to get their meat.
I watched a video of a guy repeatedly slapping a donkey in its face, and thouroughly enjoyed it when the donkey finally grabbed his legs and dragged him around in circles while he was screaming like a b*tch, so yeah. Just an adectode I guess.
Do NOT ever feed your dog a vegan diet😂😂
Animal abuse 🥵🥵
Damn, turkey tom is a legitimate PoS. His defense of leafy harrassing people is endless and full-spirited. So long as he finds it entertaining then it is a good thing in his worldview.
🤓
Turn off the computer nigga like close your eyes
Bro get off the internet, chillax for a bit and maybe eat a snickers. This is not that serious.
I hate Leafy but Pokimane absolutely didn't care at all.
She's the most corporate and fake person on Twitch. If Leafy bothered her at all it was probably because she saw him as a risk to her corporate brand.
So she takes a 2 week break. And the day she comes back Leafy is banned from Twitch.
I feel bad Leafy bothered her. But at the same time she doesn't even feel like a real person
It doesn’t matter what you’re eating, it died for you to do that. Or you’re eating it while it’s still alive.
tbh recently I've been eating less meat bc im trying to buy only the one that comes from farms that should treat them a bit better and it costs more, its unfortunate really, respect those who manage to become vegetarian or vegan, those who arent insane tho
I just find it kinda dumb how tom makes vids basically debating ethics then always comes to the idea that nothing matters if it doesn't harm himself, it's like a complete contrast.
So... like every meat eating animal... snakes.. all dead.. owels.. dead... wolves... gone... spiders anyone? sharks, groupers, snappers, fuck the number of sea life to be killed off is mind boggling.... the dude is unhinged
I'm sorry, but an impossible burger tastes nothing like a real one
I agree its much better. Zero cholesterol and all the protein of 80/20 ground beef but way less fatty. America is fucking obese, I'm tired of it.
Destiny quietly going "baaaaaased" at the worst possible times lmaoooo
"ain't no waaaaaayyy"
I'll argue he says based at the best time 😏
Repent to God christ
@@FinleyBagley no shot, bucko. L + ratio
The extermination of predatory species blew me away... holy shit.
Yeah and right after saying his pets are vegan... I didn't realise how far the black mold has grown into his brain until I saw this video.
Reminded me of the video of the person who went on national television saying their dog would choose vegan over meat... the news people put out both options. It went about how you'd expect.
@@atabixxwhat's wrong with vegan pets? Pretty sure he gives them a special type of supplemented food
@@MyMrdoodoo Sure I mean if some how the animals are getting what they need from meat through other sources then sure I guess? A cat or dog will never be vegan though, that is forced upon them. Which is animal abuse in most cases but again, if they are getting exactly what they need then it's fine. Usually just a very bad thing though
@@atabixx I'd say forcing the diet upon them, as long as it's healthy, is better than killing other animals to feed them.
When I thought VG couldnt get any more unhinged dude said he'd kill predator animals, actually unreal, that sounds evil af, killing all the Eagles, owls, wild cats, spiders, praying mantises etc. Would actually wreck the ecosystem, what a psycho
Its because his argument is just ass. If you understand anything about the trophic system then you realize you can always move the goalpost regarding ethical consumption. Is the issue suffering or is it the fact that we eat living organisms? If its suffering, does that mean we can eat meat if we find ways to harvest animals with 0 suffering? If it is due to it living then why can we eat plants? I think we can for sure improve the ethics tied to animal harvesting but to say it is unethical on his terms is batshit crazy
as if killing herbivores aint psycho
@@Anxh007 killing 10 prey animals wont make much of a dent in an ecosystem, but killing 10 predators has a good chance of causing imbalances that ends up starving hundreds
@@Anxh007do you think a lion is psycho or do you think it’s doing what it was made to do?
@@Anxh007sounds like you want all those Herbivores to slowly starve to death then
It's baffling how VG says that the meat industry is like the holocaust but also wanting to drive some species to extinction I can't 💀
Those species exist by killing others. It’s defense of the victimized party to kill them. I don’t know if it would work ecologically though.
Right is he seriously stating what he thinks should happen or trolling??
I mean. It makes sense.
You wouldn't not kill Nazis because you are against the holocaust
@@justifano7046 VG is so deep into his philosophy that he thinks predators are Nazis? xd. its not like the animals chose to kill for food.
@@justifano7046it's like capital punishment for murder.
I’m only 4 minutes in but I’m pretty sure this video is just gonna be:
VG: you’re a bad person
Tom: I know :( but steak good :)
on a loop
average tom w
Tom posted a pic irl with Vegan Gains today. The most unexpected crossover
Touch grass
@@jp32123grass ghey
@@jp32123 You’re on this channel too foh
lmao, this is prior to him finishing the choke hold and VG is on the run now tho
@@FirstLast-dh8ks going to be the wildest JCS video Destiny ever watches
Using the Holocaust to justify your veganism while simultaneously advocating for the extermination of all carnivorous animals is wild.
You might as well just say “I don’t actually give a fuck about the justifications of my beliefs I just want to feel morally superior”.
VG looks like he’d tried to measure how long he slept by using a ruler
Culling carnivores would entail eliminating -
- birds, bats, seals, whales, stingrays, sharks, octopi, fish, bacteria, frogs, spiders, lizards, snails, krill, wasps, snakes, possums... etc. It is not a rational argument AT ALL when it would result in a complete collapse of the biome.
Also his argument for providing limited area to achieve balance is destroyed by real life example - Anticosti Island, Quebec, Canada
that's a dystopia for animals genocide for carnivores, overbreeding, complete collapse of the biomes, and starvation for the rest
@@quillclock only primitive life would be allowed. Welcome to mosquito world!
Proximity of an animal (either actual or emotional) is a universal consideration for how people feel about animals and it applies to humans as well. Destiny might say that if you are fine with eating meat you can't be mad about a pet being abused.
This argument is dumb. For consistency then he should also think that someone being injured across the planet carries the same weight to your own SO, which is patently absurd. There are levels of concern people assign to everything in their life, even otherwise similar entities. Typically Family>friends>acquaintances>strangers even though these are all people. Your own pet over a stray maybe. Even a feed animal you own over unknown animals in a random farmer's field.
Substituting eating animals with imprisonment.
_”if you are for imprisoning convicted murderers you better not be against imprisoning a random girl in your basement because imprisonment is against human rights.”_
yeah people are focusing on the insanity VG pulls out in this debate (and that makes sense tbh, because VG says some truly deranged shit), but that take from Destiny is also complete dogshit, and just very obviously a warped worldview. Not only do I not think it's inherently hypocritical to care about some non-human animals more than others (for the reasons you bring up), I also think making hypocrisy out to be the absolute worst thing ethically, just in general, is absurdly dumb. Like, everyone is flawed, no one is a perfect paragon of morality, and I generally think doing at least some good things is always better than being a complete piece of shit, even if said piece of shit is consistent in their shittiness.
But that doesn't change the fact that it still holds moral value and you should still give it moral consideration. The point is going WAY over your head here nobody is saying you have to care about a chicken across the planet as much as you do your mother. The point is regardless if you emotionally care more about your brother than a starving kid in Africa you should say "yes it's okay to torture and kill the starving kid in Africa because it isn't my brother" is that so hard to comprehend for you?
@@vanessaashford9203It is hypocritical for the most part even if it doesn't always apply as some things we consider animals don't have sentience. You think it isn't hypocritical because you care more about your dog than a chicken? I swear the average meat eater iq drops to 40 when trying to defend their hypocrisy. So it's not hypocritical of me to say "it's okay to torture and kill your grandma after all it's not like it's my grandma!" How is this so hard for you to grasp?
Hypocrisy isn't the worst thing ethnically but it is obviously bad and it's espeically bad when it's pointed out to you and you don't consider it and it's even worse when you openly admit it and simply say "yeah I'm hypocritical on this and I will be forever!"
This line of reasoning is completely regarded and I could make it about almost anything. "Sure I graped that girl but I could've graped tortured and murdered her but name me one person who's perfect in every way!!! Exactly! In my opinion people overlook me saving 10 babies lives from a burning fire and donating 10 billion dollars to cancer research how i see see it i generally think doing at least some good things is better than being a piece of shit even if said piece of shit is consistent in their shitiness"
No one being perfect and doing more good things than bad this being good is agreeable but that doesn't change the fact you are doing a bad thing and nobody being perfect isn't an excuse for bad behavior and doing some good things isn't one either.
Being a hypocrite to this magnitude is an incredibly large flaw and since it's such a widespread issue it's a large issue and you can see the effects of it in the world the less of it the better especially when it's blatantly hypocrisy like this it's a sign of a major failure critical thinking in the population.
@@jobo2243 sure they can still have moral consideration but at different levels based on their proximity and importance to each person.
If you would give your brother $100 when their broke why aren't you mailing $100 to every starving family? Because one is more important to that person and therefore has higher consideration.
We can make it even more obvious too. Why aren't you dividing your income evenly across even all the people you know? Are your bills more important than theirs?
VG tells Tom he's a bad person and a hypocrite, then takes him lifting the next day.
Gigachad move right there.
Unironically a gigachad move lol
“I can save him” 🗿
VG can't even squat 225 without injuring himself lol
@@xbefri23 Gimme source, bruh.
@@xbefri23i know you’re lying bc i could squat 225 the first time i’d ever lifted and VG is a dedicated lifter who is way bigger than me lmfao.
hating like your life depends on it jesus get a job 💀
I don't get the "you can't eat meat and get mad at your neighbor for kicking their dog"
Seems pretty obvious we care more about things the closer they are to us.
Humans in thbe west are closer to dogs or cats than they are to pigs and cows.
By that logic shouldn't we either learn to be okay with abuse of dogs, or do more to prevent the torture of animals that are pets in other society?
@@AUstudios but if a society of people is close to dogs... That society isn't gonna be happy about dog abuse.
Even if it isn't your dog, and even if it's a dog across the world
@@justifano7046but why are they close to dogs? If enough people were close to pigs would it no longer be acceptable to do anything more than kick a pig in america
@@AUstudios I mean on its own it's not acceptable to kick a pig.
As to what's making us closer likely societal influence. Growing up with these animals as companions is likely tk have them not seen as food items.
@@justifano7046then why support the torture of pigs en masse if it's not justifiable 2 kick them. It's not like we need pork to survive
Did I just hear VG say that he would kill animals that eat other animals? What the fuck?
Yeah because they hurt other animals :((
This is one of the topics where Destiny has a dogshit perspective; but Gains is insane wanting to cull all predatory species.
I definitely agree. I didn't expect Gains to say that. And I justify my meat eating differently from Destiny, but I think it's logical and makes sense.
Why is that insane, other Than ur knee jerk reaction?
VG is and has always been a bad proponent of Veganism.
Just watch the debate he had with dr avi to understand why it’s not a insane position
I don’t know that VG’s position is even so absurd given he sees animal rights as an extension of human rights. It is essentially the same thing as the moral question about un-aliving the H-man before WWII occurred: it is immoral to perform the act of murder, but the number that would be saved makes it potentially justifiable. I think more moral conundrums stem from things further down the line, most obviously the “playing god” that humans get to do with other species.
Happy to have Tom on board as an orbiter
tbh he's not a orbiter because if you use that logic, if Destiny retired then all his orbiters would have nothing to orbit but Tom has 2 big channels of his own so he's basically like Aba, just another Sun who likes to come and chill.
@@sirteabag8652 He's like Aba, minus a brain.
@@sirteabag8652 no he called in hes an orbiter now
@@skellymen2395 But is he career dependent on Destiny streaming ?
@@sirteabag8652 yes
I heard someone say "Oh, VG isn't really that crazy. It's just a character!". But now I'm certain he's genuinely unhinged.
Dude, I've known this guy for a long time. He's been at this for almost 9 years now, AT LEAST, and it's pretty obvious that he's legit. When you watch how he talks with other people and how he speaks about himself, it becomes quite clear (if it wasn't already) that he's very serious. I still remember when his videos first started showing up on the Drunken Peasants, and the crazy controversies he got into, revolving around filming his grandpa's deathly heart attack, and expressing a strong desire to kill MrRepzion. Aaah, the good old days....
@@dusanradojkovic8190as a fellow old school VG viewer (i was binging his shit back in 2017) we can both at least agree that this new soft spoken VG is such a let down and fall from grace. Pre 2020 schitzo VG was so fucking funny
@@perpetual_suffering1458 If you watch his live streams enough, he still says a lot of crazy shit (I say "crazy", but I can somewhat relate to the anger, admittedly; that being said, I'm not a sociopath like he is). I've still heard him say he would love to beat the shit out of certain people and kill certain people or whatever. I've heard him say he would kill all meat eaters if he had Thanos-level finger-snap powers. I've heard him say that the only reason he hasn't killed anyone yet is because he doesn't think he could get away with it, and I've heard him say that if murder were legal, he probably would start killing people. Those are just some examples of shit I've heard him say in the last year or so. Also, that he thinks he could legitimately become the Prime Minister of Canada and, if he did, he would do a much better job than Justin Trudeau. Kind of an aside, but also funny.
Considering VGs history of making fun of kids with cancer, telling people he would literally murder them for eating meat and generally acting like a psychopath I don’t think he can judge anyone else.
Vegan gains is fucking hilarious for all that shit
True, but Vulture Tom being edgy bad faith carnivore and Destiny endorsing kicking your dog took the cake for this round. One side looked unhinged in this convo, and it wasn't VG.
Flashbacks to when he made a video about how his family had to talk him down from uploading his Grandpa’s heart attack that killed him because he ate meat
thank you for reminding me of this gem, memories unlocked.@@thegrimeyhole
@@burnbird16 VG literally is in favour of killing every predator animal out there and you are saying he is not unhinged :D :D :D
Destiny’s argument on 11:52 and his disability to differentiate between killing an animal to eat and abusing an animal for any other reason is beyond me. The idea that you have to either be okay with a neighbor abusing his pet and then eating meat in understandable or NOT be okay with the neighbor abusing his pet AND NOT be okay with eating meat lacks a lot of nuance that I know he’s capable of giving to other topics. Imagine thinking that beating an animal is comparable to hitting a car is insane. The killing of an animal to sustain another is not the same as killing or abusing an animal for the amusement of another, there’s something inherently different when the ones doing so are humans and I’m pretty convinced Destiny is smart enough to know this. Someone please tell me he just doesn’t care enough, that’ll be at least be more understandable
No, because you dont need livestock to survive, so you're just killing or abusing animals because you prefer meat over other options. Dogs are livestock in other cultures and our livestock are sometimes pets.
@@AUstudios You absolutely do, the fact that we as humans have to create other means to recreate other things that give us and our pets (in the case of VG’s pets) the nutritional value of meat is proof of that. A better argument would be that we have found better methods to supplement those nutritional needs without the need to kill animals, but that doesn’t disprove my argument, in fact, my argument is necessary to make that better argument. Also, whether an animal is a subject of worship doesn’t mean that is not an animal. So using that argument also does nothing.
@@thementalcrutch8931you may as well say we need religion to survive, you'd be just as accurate. did you know that vegans gave existed throughout human history? What about meat makes it essential to modern wealthy 1st world nations?
@@AUstudios I don’t see the correlation between religion and eating meat, maybe because you believe we needed religion before and you think I would argue we still need it now? Because if that’s what you think, you’re wrong and I won’t make that argument because I don’t believe it. Also you are missing the point that I’m making, my point is not that it’s essential to 1st world countries, although I personally believe that real meat is better than synthetic or fake meat, but that’s not a logical argument of mine. Please find me where I made the argument that it was essential.
@@thementalcrutch8931i said u don't need livestock to survive. You replied we absolutely do.
Vegan gains thinks we don't farm in Africa, really
For someone who care so much about animals, you would think he would know about the food chain and trophic cascades.
Collapse of the biosphere and the end to life as we know it, including humans and all the animals Vegan Gains loves? "As long as life goes extinct morally, then it's okay 👍"
- Vegan Gains probably
honestly a lot of people have this assumption that animal rights extremists also care about/understand ecology or the environment, and it is absolutely not the case. Like just last night I was reading about how a bunch of conservation organizations and government agencies came together (under recommendation from actual ecologists) to remove protections for mute swans in the US, as they are an invasive species from Europe that has been proven to be environmentally destructive, and a bunch of animal rights groups, non-scientist cranks who insist mute swans are somehow native to North America (they straight up aren't), and just uneducated randos with zero understanding of the situation freaked tf out basically because "swans are pretty uwu", but the animal rights groups were the most aggressive dissenters. A lot of these people live in a fantasy world and have zero understanding of science or reality in general, and are fully willing to fuck with the environment if it goes with their wacky beliefs.
I think that animal cruelty for no purpose beyond cruelty is absolutely wrong. I am fine with animals being killed either in the wild or in farms by for purposes such as culling pests, gathering materials (meat or otherwise) or animal on animal violence.
I think humans should try to make the killings as quick or painless as they can within reason because humans are more advanced than other animals and have the capabilities and reasoning to consider it.
One could argue that animal cruelty almost never serves "no purpose". someone could beat their dog in hopes that it listens, someone could drown kittens in a bag so they aren't a future burden, someone could beat a dog to death because its entertaining to them. one could kill a cow simply because meat tastes better than tofu. i think advocating for humane slaughter is a bit hypocritical. should the suffering of animals be taken into account or not? Almost like saying slaves are humans so you should treat them humanely yet they're still slaves.
@@vgpunk22someone could also cut their dick off to make it rain, just because someone believes they’re being cruel to achieve a purpose doesn’t mean that’s whats happening.
I think you need to draw a distinction between meat for survival, and meat for pleasure. Slaughtering an animal for pleasure should be on the 'for no reason' side, unless you're also going to say people who get enjoyment from torturing animals are also doing it 'for a reason'.
@@vgpunk22 I wouldn’t go as far as hypocritical. I think there is a good middleground which should get better for the animals over time.
In medieval times it would have been slower and involved more suffering whereas now we have ways of rendering the animals unconscious before they are shot in the head with a .22. You would not expect a farmer in the 11th century to be capable of such humane slaughter.
Tl;dr: I don’t think its hypocritical to make it more humane within your means.
@@thegrinderman1090 I don’t think there is a distinction between the use of the meat. If the person wants the meat then that is reason enough.
If someone wants to kill an animal because it is a pest (eating their crops? Damaging their property?) then thats all good, once again I would hope they do it as humane as is within their means.
If someone is killing an animal unprovoked with no reason beyond them wanting it dead I consider that to be wrong.
A good analogy of my reasoning would be this: Murdering someone who has never done anything to you is obviously wrong. Murdering someone who burned your house to the ground is still wrong but an argument could be made for it being deserved. If there is no possible argument to be made that the animal’s death was warranted then of course it is unwarranted. If there is a reason to it then I think it is okay. Even minor reasons like “the bird woke me up” would be okay in my eyes.
VG’s take on whitetail deer is ridiculous. I grew up in rural areas of Pennsylvania around whitetail deer, a lot of these areas have been developed, turning them into suburbs. The deer didn’t go away, they increased. Mostly because of people feeding them, having gardens, and no ability to hunt because of the danger of hitting a home with a bad shot. So it’s basically a safe space…A lot of the areas around me, the deer so used to people, you can nearly feed them by hand. So his idea of developing areas, will result in less deer, that’s a big no.
yeah whitetail deer are basically vermin in large stretches of the east coast and midwest at this point, and a big part of why their population has exploded is precisely *because* their natural predators have either had their populations greatly reduced (like black bears) or have been outright extirpated (like cougars and grey wolves) from most of the areas that are now full of them, and thus they're now constantly on the verge of overpopulation, especially with humans protecting them and feeding them on top of that. This is why actual ecologists push for culling of certain wild animal populations, for the exact opposite of why VG wants to (which would severely worsen an already major issue)
he knows absolutely nothing about ecology, a 9th grader could probably correct him in his knowledge on it, and yet here he is mouthing off like he's some kind of expert. Typical animal rights extremist brainrot, tbh.
maybe the relative lack of protein in his diet is causing his body to divert every essential amino acid it gets ahold of toward his gains, at the cost of basic brain function.
Destiny has a really bad take here.
I have a similar opinion to him, that we are a separate species, and thus my morale arguments are generally confined to human experience and suffering, and valuing human life.
And in the same suit I would say I respect the circle of life, the animal kingdom, the natural order, whatever you want to call it.
On that note, there are plenty of examples of animals adopting members of a different sub-species, or even an entirely different species, confusing as it seems to a naturalistic "kill or be killed" worldview.
But in saying that, looking at ourselves, and people on the extreme side of ourselves, we can fully anthropomorphise all animals to such a insane degree, that it really isn't surprising.
I also think being compassionate and empathetic is a core tenant to survival overall, as much as that also contradicts the "kill or be killed" darwinian mindset people tend to black-and-white think about when it comes to the natural world.
In reality, I think if any species had no nurturing, no empathetic, no compassionate, etc.. side to their social interactions, then life wouldn't have gotten to the point it has.
So when it comes to people caring about dogs and cats being abused, etc..? Well, I think it's fairly obvious when you sit back and really think about it. And outside of the emotional component to it, you can rationalize that level of animal compassion, as well.
What I mean is, we as a species have adopted many animals into our social groups for many purposes. Some as lifestock purely, but that's somewhat recent. The animals we usually adopted were, like the obvious dogs, animals with purpose. Same with horses. sheep, etc..
Did we eat them? very likely, but they also served important purposes of protection, transport, produced products for clothing, etc..
With dogs, we are also the entire reason the modern canine exists.
And to fully rationalize a "moral" reason for not liking to see dogs abused (as one example), well, we are the reason they exist, we have a responsibility almost, similar to the duty we have for bringing our own children into the world, except on a more meta/species level.
I reserve the right to feel compassion for dogs, and other animals dependent on my support to live, who i've adopted into my family unit, etc..
And not give that much of a damn about animals that are purely bred for lifestock/meat purposes. Would I prefer they live comfortable lives until death? very much so, and you might even have me voice as much to people in a debate.
In the same ilk, I keep ant colonies. I find them interesting to observe, it's a hobby I can partake in with my busy work-life, which requires little time to actually maintain if i'm super busy. An extension of this is I keep colonies of crickets, as feeder animals for them, as well as micro fauna.
Do I feel a little responsibility for their well being? yes, no doubt, as they are undoubtedly my responsibility. But I certainly don't invest emotion on the level I do my dog(s) or other companion animals.
We have no responsibility to dogs, there are cultures that reject dogs entirely
No not really, the thing with humans is that we can adopt or rejecf any animal on an individual basis,india loves cows, u wouldnt force them to not care about cows right? And the chinese people eat dogs thing, if they did, wouldnt really matter in the grand scheme of things, much like how you care about dogs and dont care about cows while some cultures disagree, all animals are objectively if we take it globally all pretty much are worth the same
This is unnecessarily verbose.
cool story bro
personally, I don't like people abusing their dogs/cats etc since it's pointless harm. Harming it doesn't do anything positive. Meanwhile, even though we harm millions of animals for food they are being used for food so it's different.
destiny is pretending to believe this shit so he doesn't sound hypocritical lmao. Acting like kicking a dog is like kicking your car
Yeah it's so fucking cringe
based off his view of animals it is literally almost the same. Nothing hypocritical about his worldview at all. In fact it's more hypocritical to care about someone kicking a dog but then not give a fuck when you eat meat when those animals are almost always in TERRIBLE conditions and their entire purpose is to be eaten
@@swordyshield I'm saying he's lying (maybe to himself) about viewing dogs and cars the same so it wont appear hypocritical when he eats meat
@@swordyshield Because thinking cars and dogs have the same capacity for suffering is actually psychotic
@@adamsandler8885 again it has nothing to do with this though. Obviously, a dog has more capacity for suffering. Destiny just (based off this video anyways) says that he views dogs as lower forms of existence basically. You can say that's psychotic but it's not hypocritical unlike the idea that hitting a dog is bad yet eating meat is okay
Only thing I'll never get over is vg forcing his wolf hound pup to starve for his own ego cus of the vegan diet he forced on it.
Like, when a professional steps in and tells you you're abusing the animal, I think that speaks volumes
@@wolfsage9I guess he could euthanize him instead. Doesnt really sound like that big of a deal
@@wolfsage9too bad because if they eat any meat he'll have to leave them lmao
this has to be the laziest attempt at a gotcha that appears every time VG is featured on destiny’s stream. quick google search: “dogs prefer meat, but a vegan or vegetarian diet is possible with the right supplements.”
also lol at the fake concern over the dogs diet. where is the concern for the kidnapped, tortured, and slaughtered animals we use for livestock?
it’s crazy, i’m not vegan or vegetarian but i find myself defending VG from these low iq rebuttals every time he appears. something about the topic of veganism just turns you peoples’ brains into shit lmao.
And currently his cat - an obligate carnivore. It’s animal abuse.
insane how no one had a good take here.
What's your take then?
"There are societies where people eat other people.."
"Based"
😅
Vegan talking points literally nails it in why everyone makes fun od vegans.
I’ll bite the bullet and say caniblism is ok as long as it’s consensual
Ew
This doesn't work when you consider that someone may be temporarily impaired. Like a depressed person may consent to being eaten in a moment of weakness but a day later if they were still alive they would regret the decision, as our current understanding of rape works.
There have even been cases in Japan for example of creepy psychos manipulating suicidal women into letting them kill them. When the reality is, given support and therapy there's a very good chance those women wouldn't have made the same decisions.
Obviously you're memeing but there are weird people out there.
@@dotanonso i guess sex is illegal then
@@dotanon I assumed the system would be a "after I die I consent to use my body for X"
Maybe instead of going to research/science, you could sell your corpse so the money goes to the charity of your choice or your next of Kin.
@@dotanon I know that you didnt but it really sounded like you just argued that you cant give consent to your death...
Okay just a reminder, destiny's granny repeatedly killed a few of their dogs, and he eventually stopped feeling attached to them.
And?
@@tomj1676 I think it's a relevant backdrop for him saying that he won't be too bothered if his neighbour was b3ating the crap out of his dog :3
@@ddawg3230 okay
How ironic VG is actually engaging in animal abuse by forcing vegan diets on his cats and dogs and saying he would "cull all wild carnivorous animals", talk about a lunatic. He has to be some sort of long-game troll, no way someone is that unhinged.
Dogs can get by just fine on plant based diets as they are not obligate carnivores like cats. all that other shit he said is wild tho ngl. personally if i came across a bear trying to kill a deer I'd shoot the bear assuming the deer wasnt too terribly injured already, but culling carnivorous animals is a bit much. if there were a button to make every animal herbivore I'd do that
@@vgpunk22hahahaha “I’d kill the bear”, bros gonna make Bears go vegan
@@vgpunk22that’s a good example actually.. because white tail deer are having big overpopulation problems in a lot of areas… due to natural predators not being around anymore. They’ll reproduce until they starve to death. Babies starving to death. Disease becomes rampant, and they destroy the ecosystems of a lot of other plants and animals. Personally I feel a hunter shooting an adult deer who is going to eat the whole thing is about the best death that animal is going to get. I don’t think VG is very well read on the negative externalities of his positions. Or more likely he’s just too egotistical and deluded to consider them. He’s right that factory farming is messed up in a lot of ways, but the “kill all Carnivores” position is just… ignorant.
Dogs can eat a plant based diet. Dogs actually evolved the ability to digest grains around the same time we did. They have evolved to eat a similar diet to ours.
@@vgpunk22you are a psychopath if you’d actually intervene in nature in such a way. Let the bear get its meal and move on with your life.
Cows literally don't exist in the wild. Their only purpose is to become human food. Also, I disagree that you can't have different feelings about domesticated animals. In the US, we've determined as a society that dogs and cats can become part of the family - of course you would look at them differently than a barnyard animal raised to be eaten.
Where do you think cows came from? Do you think we got them from, did we build them out of machinery?? Do you think it would be a good idea to release domesticated dogs into the wild anywhere in America? Most breeds like golden retrievers, pugs, and a hundred more are not able to exist in the wild any more than cows.
No one talks about the cries of the carrots.
Tel Aviv University researchers discovered that tomato plants “scream” when they're stressed out. This is said to happen when they don't receive adequate amounts of water - or when their stems are cut. However, the plant's screams cannot be heard by the human ear - as these veggies only emit high-frequency sounds.
@@RoloTumassi-jg9ej Thank you for sharing this info. I was just referencing a song haha
@@fireyfistoffire Tool?
@@RoloTumassi-jg9ej Yeap, "Life eats Life" - Disgustipated by Tool
@@RoloTumassi-jg9ej What evidence did they provide to show that this is not a purely mechanical response but is instead an intentional "scream"? I can imagine a mechanistic reason of a lack of water causing vibrations in the air, but to assume that a being with no central nervous system is "screaming" requires much more groundwork. Based on your description, it sounds like the article lays this groundwork?
VG is literally advocating for deforestation at one point this guy is nuts at around 9 mins
Must we start putting foxes on trial for hunting and eating rabbits?
Not even 6 minutes after making this comment he unironically agrees with this😭
No cause animals doesn’t have moral agency but they have moral value
@@UkiyoIkou Nah bruh, that’s not what he said at all. He said we should just genocide all predators
@@impeacefulgamer Considering Vegan Gains wants to make all carnivorous animal extinct (he literally said he wants to cull the tiger population) I would say that you are actually wrong.
@@impeacefulgamer it's all or nothing buddy
VG could read tv guide out loud and still somehow sound condescending
why you change back the pfp huh
Yeah, why did you change it back?
Oh, I haven’t seen that in the comment section before about VG. Oh wait I have very unique critique you have there just what I expect from you.
Bro keeps the most up voted comments in his notes to use for future videos
He talks like a Californian teen girl.
14:55 "You didn't know that it was a hydrolised isolate protein, you dumb fuck" just caught me off guard, that was hilarious
So predator animals don't get rights because they eat other animals bro what?
So its ok for VG to cause animal harm in order to live but not ok for carnivores to cause animal harm to live? Dude can't be serious
Vegan Gains is torturing his cat via its diet. Hes making it go blind.
that is considered animal abuse in some states.
Do you know the specifics of the diet? Why do you say that?
Which nutrient(s) that cause blindness aren't present in the cat food VG is using?
@@aioli121 You question makes no sense, try rewording it lol
@@jack_the_wendigo It's wild to me that you didn't understand what I was asking. But I'll reword it for you anyway. Based on what Vegan Gains is feeding his cat, what specific nutrients are missing from the formula whose absence is causing blindness in the cat?
As soon as Vegan Gains said he wanted to make all carnivores go extinct (tigers, etc) dude totally lost me. How do you have such a strong beliefs on veganism but have no idea or not believe in the decades of research about the roles of carnivores in the ecosystem and want to remove them.
8:12 the pets would vote against your meal plan.
You running a little north Korea in your house.
Lmao
Honestly I was floored guy said his cat and dog eat vegan. My ferret was fed a raw all meat diet cause the kibble had too much vegetables they got sick. Dude is fine with culling meat eating animals
@@ImpulsiveLimboDogs actually can be perfectly healthy on a vegan diet. (Though cats cannot.)
@@thomaswest4033 yeah I mean most dogs have a balanced diet with meat. If a dog is experiencing stomach issues boiled chicken and rice are the go-to.
Also said he is all about killing animals that eat meat.. which is pretty fucked if you don't agree with killing cows, pigs, chickens for food.
@@ImpulsiveLimbo I worked at a pet store, and anecdotally the most common allergy dogs had are with chicken actually. I'd be curious if this is a fluke, or where you may have heard about the rice and chicken thing?
Is Destiny still pretending he doesn't have an emotional response to seeing an animal being tortured so he can act like he has a logical position?
Yes. I honestly feel the ONLY even half decent response to the veganism thing is that me not eating meat is over the course of my lifetime gonna save like... a tiny percent of animals.
@@mrlemongrapefulI’ve been a meat eater my whole life, just finished a pot roast…and I’ve never heard a great argument for eating meat. It’s basically “I grew up doing it and I like doing it”. But on moral grounds there’s really no winning
@@mrlemongrapeful I know you're already saying it's not a great argument yourself, but I don't think it's even half-decent... It's like saying 'I only murdered 5 people, what's the big deal? There are billions of humans, I'm not even causing a millionth of a percent of human death.' The impact on the species population is not the moral dilemma here, its the impact on the individual.
@@TonyCox1351well that’s not to say no human is morally justified in eating meat. But if you’re living in a first world country then yea there’s no justification.
No, he doesn't say that and I don't think he has ever said that. I'm pretty sure he's said the opposite even. He claims to separate his emotional response from his moral stance.
No matter how hard a vegan tries they can never beat the argument "i don't care" i don't even get why they try and engage with it. It simply isn't somthing they can argue someone out of
I guess they're trying to find something you do care about. Most people care about cats and dogs so their attempt is to try to extend that feeling towards other animals.
u realize thats not an argument, and its completely unbeatable in every sense, not just for veganism. As a thought experiment, whichever topic u feel strongest about, argue it in ur head but for every argument u make counter it with "yeah but i don't care" see if u can beat it.
@@vgpunk22 your right its not thats why if I was arguing I would simply leave. Instead of sitting there for half a hour trying to poke and prod at them
Saying you 'don't care' when you don't have a refutation to a logical argument is the most insecure shit. Why not just admit you're wrong, and accept that you can either be a good person and change, or be a bad person and continue as you were? It just comes across like you're ashamed of your behaviour, and even more ashamed to admit it.
@@thegrinderman1090if I say idc about animals and I eat meat. That literally means there shouldn’t be an argument. You don’t have to defend or deny anything. You get to say I don’t care and the other person needs to fuck off lol.
Why does anyone feel bad for someone that's "getting death threats" (VG) when he wishes death (or use to) on people several times a week? (over-selling how often he does it SLIGHTLY). Either way he cannot say, "I see animal rights as an extension of human rights." Then turn around and say things like, "We should kill off predators in the wild for killing other animals." AND threaten peoples lives over meat. I will say he is at least consistent, but NOBODY should feel bad for him.
Also, I know Destiny is tired of certain topics, but that's the nature of his job. Maybe he should take a break if he is being drained by the topics that he entertains on his channel.
Screw this argument I want to know why I have a large urge to pick on Vegan Gains?
he's insufferable. I don't care if you agree with him you would want to pick on him
11:04 thats hinge bro thats the dumbest take ive heard from him yet , its either black or white ? No in between ?
Vegan Gains gets blown out by leafy Stan…. Sad
This is actually a really enjoyable listen. I appreciate having these contentious topics discussed by a myriad of moderate perspective that reflect the norm. It's so much better than just hearing VG proselytize his dogma and Destiny deflect disinterestedly with intellectual arguments.
Well said. Like most people don't think the way either Destiny or VG thinks.
Tom is really good for this content imo
VG is one of the most insufferable destiny guests. His own logic doesnt even make sense. Also if hes so against animal abuse, why is he feeding a cat (which is a carnivore) a plant based diet
VG is literally poison. If I didn't know he was a seriously unhinged nutcase, I would think he's just a hilarious troll.
Ok, let me just say that Vegan gains is flat out wrong in regards to nations like South Africa needing the meat trade to sustain itself, we have a huge amount of our population living below the poverty line and and many living on subsistence level income. For these people and families the main form of protein they ingest is chicken of which is farmed in South Africa it is the cheapest meat product by far and ultimately protein source that they they can afford which makes it so integral. When VG says he doesn't think that's true hes wrong and shouldn't comment because he hasn't researched it and doesn't know. I know this because I live in South Africa and it is a very important aspect regarding the socio-economic working of the country, we also don't import our meat, or better put about the meat that is imported is only for about 1-5% of the popualtion as those are the only people who can afford it, South Africa currently ranks 15th in the world in beef exported out the country.
Secondly the man whose against killing animals is for the culling of carnivorous animals, an ecological system that has been in place since the first predator discovered 560 million years ago. I studied game ranch management in and worked as a Habitat Manager at one of the best Private Gamer Reserves (Safari Parks) in South Africa and his theory about how to sustain the deer and herbivore populations would never work. The size of a deer or antelopes territorial range, and I use territory because that's the word he used, territory especially when referring to animals doesn't tend to extend to non territorial animals of which the vast majority ungulates, or cloven hoofed animals are, so he's wrong on just simple terms. Instead we would consider it their available range to inhabit. The capability of a population of deer or antelope to reproduce doesn't depend on the size of the area they inhabit, depends on the number of viable females there are, the populations are self regulatory. What would end up happening is that the population would increase based on the number of females that fell pregnant, (its generally around a third) and this would occur year on year if there were no predators or no means on human intervention. The antelope would exhaust all there food sources and end up starving and dying, if the population was large enough some might survive until the next growth season where they would be able to start bring population numbers back up. But this doesn't solve for his stopping animal suffering problem it exacerbates it. Moving animals to different areas might be a temporary solve as they would inevitably run into the same problem, and you would eventually find that you would run out of places to move these deer and antelope eventually. I would love to bring this up with Vegan Gains since he is clearly clueless on this matter.
Little bro is feeding his dog some vegan slop wtf
u calling it slop when half the pet food on the market is ground up intestines with shit still in em that went bad weeks before canning.
@@vgpunk22 his animals will die
The Vegan guy lost me when you said you should kill predator animals, the earth has its own balance, killing predators to help the prey is playing God
Destiny not caring about a dog getting kicked in front of him just makes him sound like a psycho.
Not everyone has to care about what a lot of people do.
Ask people who work in a meat plant if they care about their animals getting kicked, they'll get a good chuckle
Ask a fisherman if they care when they slam the head of the fish to kill them so they can gut them lol.
@@AUstudiosMeat plant worker would probably throw hands if you kicked their pet dog
@@vesuvius2444what's the difference between their dog and the animal on the factory floor?
11:13 out of touch?
I'm in favor of Animal welfare and generally certain animal rights. Vegan Gains just isn't good at convincing people and is getting hung up entirely on the emotional response (which I understand to a degree because if you do care, the reality is quite depressing). He needs to engage in reasons why someone who is apathetic to other species should care. Pollution, health issues, waste management, psychological issues (even Destiny has talked about warning signs for serial killers), e.t.c. Need to also provide practical and better alternative solutions.
Turkey tom is very difficult to look at to say the least
“I went to a sanctuary and I petted a cow” yep got some city boys here acting like they know animals. Smh. VG dude is just a pussy if he really views humans the same as animals, then goes on to make contradictory statements like “I’d kill tigers to extinction”. His logic is all over the place. Destiny is spot on w/ the logic. Except I’d say it’s okay to have a healthy respect of animals, like you see your neighbor kicking his dog- that’s unnecessary cruelty, so yes I’d take issue. I work on a large commercial ranch herding cattle 7 days a week. All we produce is beef (also cows are adorable Tom! but VG, try herding cattle then try and tell me theyre intelligent 😂) yes we do slaughter cattle but it is in a human way it’s like flipping a switch. Now, their are a lot of factories(not a ranch like where I work) out their that do fall into the animal abuse column I don’t agree w/ and think should be regulated. Is that a bad stance? Meat eating is okay if humane? Why does it have to be so one way or the other?
It's not a problem unless you want to be consistent and not hypocritical. Kicking a dog is no less unnecessary cruelty than America being the top .01% of meat consuming countries. We eat so much cause we prefer meat over other options, and for no other reason really. Again there's nothing wrong with your belief, it's not like our laws are perfectly based on moral consistency.
That was my favorite response ever to the NNT:
“Well that would lead to a contradiction, or hypocrisy on your part”
“Yeah. Of course.”
The implication is that you'd be claiming to hold a value you don't actually hold which has led to the contradiction. If you're dishonest, you can simply accept that, but in these sorts of conversations, it's assumed that you intend to present your ideas honestly. So a good faith actor would backtrack to figure out what value claims led to the contradiction to see how they can be adjusted to rebuild consistency.
@jessie6600 I’m not really a fan of VG, so I don’t care about him winning or whatever. In fact, he tends to lose most arguments by virtue of his own terrible approach to conversations. I’m more concerned with the other folks being dishonest in a self-serving manner simply because they don’t want to contend with having an incoherent set of values. It’s incredibly cowardly. I feel like some audience members eat it up because they know they couldn’t perform any better.
@jessie6600 I get the concern over some rando mandating a change in your eating habits, which is why I think VG’s approach is dogshit. But we ought to promote a society where people respect their own morals enough to adjust them when they’re self contradictory. Before anyone shits themselves, I’m going to use a slavery comparison, not because meat eating = slavery, but because slavery is something we generally agree was bad that required a change in contradicting morals. If the people who led the movement against slavery had instead held contradictory values that people ought not be owned as slaves but also thought that their personal gains from slave-based economies warranted maintaining it, then we would have never upended slavery. I don’t support having a set of moral inconsistencies that could be used to retroactively support something as bad as slavery, because the implication is that we won’t have the willpower to upend the next worst atrocity that we’re still committing. Whether that’s harming animals, killing innocent people abroad, supporting sweat shops, supporting major contributors to climate change, or whatever else, we ought to get our values in line for the sake of improving present/future atrocities.
@jessie6600 I don't believe you can be morally inconsistent with regards to your actual values. The issue is when you present your values using white lies to convince yourself that you behave better than you do. That's where the contradictions come from in the first place.
For example, many people say it's vital that animals experience minimal pain when slaughtered, but meanwhile US animal agriculture will bar any unauthorized footage of slaughter, and when footage comes out, there are countless instances of significant pain for the animal in their final moments. If the person then says they still support conventional US meat production while continuing to hold the value that minimal pain is necessary, then at that point they're simply lying about their values. That's where the problem is.
So I don't think you're arguing in bad faith or anything, but from my perspective, your argument boils down to the idea that mischaracterizing one's moral values should be acceptable in conversations regarding morality. I just don't see why anyone would subscribe to that position when the clearest and simplest step to take is acknowledging the contradiction and working our way back through value claims to figure out what was said that is false.
I don't think this necessarily results in someone becoming vegan. It just happens to be the case that for a lot of people who resolve these contradictions, empathy towards animals is a stronger moral value than more self-serving moral values that they previously used to justify harm to animals.
@jessie6600 And I agree that there's no compelling reason to categorize people as "good" or "bad". Only actions should be considered good or bad. So it's less that the dad in your example is a good person, and more so that he should maximize the good things he does and minimize the bad things. I don't see why drinking on the weekends is necessarily bad, but assuming you're saying he does it in a way that negatively impacts his relationship with family or something and he believes he should not act that way, then he has a moral obligation to either stop acting in that way or accept that the value he claims to hold does not represent his actual beliefs.
I would eat dog but I wouldn't sit quietly looking at a dog being abused. Killing for food is just continuing the cycle of nature to me.
So as long as the dog is used for meat or leather and the suffering happens out of sight then youre ok with that
@@AUstudios The suffering as they kill the dog can be in my sight. But one thing is unnecessary suffering and another is killing. Like I have been to slaughters of pigs to eat them but I do not support bullfights and wish it was banned. Also, plants react to damage, isn't that pain? If all animals have some sort of aversion to damage, should we eat at all?
@@next_door_rigil3270do you think it's worth considering how eating animals is "necessary"? What if I told you killing a dog without need is a type of abuse and counts as suffering? When you kill a dog or other non-human animal for leather it's no more necessary than a bullfight. Bullfights are culturally significant, just like we don't allow abuse of cats under the law here for cultural reasons, even though cats are food. Bullfights can serve a needless purpose, just as killing animals to produce products we like is a needless purpose.
@@next_door_rigil3270there's a difference between damage response and pain. Harvesting fruit is a part of the reproduction cycle, and trimming plants makes them stronger and healthier. Should we not eat plants since they are organic life? Perhaps, but it's irrelevant in my view because humans must kill organic life in order to survive, but we can easily and drastically reduce the suffering and torture that we cause by eating less meat and more vegetables.
@@AUstudios Exactly that. I believe it would be problematic to just transition completely all at once. In my opinion, there are different degrees in pain and indeed reducing meat consumption and increasing vegetable consumption leads to a reduction of pain. However, eating meat is not comparable to watching a dog being abused.
I'm sure VG has no problem running around on his chinese slave labor iphone
Made from materials mined by child sex slaves in the kongo
He has an android
The topic of culling predatory species is controversial, and opinions vary among different groups, including among vegans. Veganism primarily emphasizes not using or consuming animal products and avoiding harm to animals as much as is practical and possible. Here's what can be generally said about the topic in the context of vegan ethics:
Non-Interference in Natural Processes: Many vegans believe in letting nature take its course. Predation is a natural process that has occurred for millions of years and plays a critical role in maintaining ecological balance. Culling predators to protect prey would be seen by many as unnecessary interference in these natural processes.
Ecological Considerations: From an ecological standpoint, predators play crucial roles in ecosystems by controlling the population sizes of prey species, preventing overgrazing, and promoting biodiversity. Removing or drastically reducing predator populations could have unintended negative consequences on ecosystems.
Ethical Concerns: Ethically, many vegans would be opposed to intentionally causing harm or death to animals, including predatory species. The ethos of veganism is often rooted in compassion and non-violence.
Practical Concerns: Some argue against such culling practices, pointing out that they are often short-term solutions. If a predator species is culled to protect a prey species, there might be an overpopulation of the prey species, which can lead to other ecological challenges.
Exceptions: There might be situations where intervention is considered, such as when a particular species is introduced to a new environment and becomes invasive, threatening native species and the balance of the local ecosystem. In these cases, some might see culling as a regrettable but necessary action.