My second degree was in physics, I started in my 30s after having studied philosophy and as a passionate musician. Physics is no less creative than the arts, the ends might be different but physics requires ample creativity so as to create a model and/or understanding that is truly new. It's a shame that physics and mathematics aren't taught with an aim of discovery and creation, rather than only understanding the basics of the tools of the subject. It is a little like learning an instrument but only practicing scales. Interestingly, on mind altering states, I find intense exercise and playing music seems to inspire ideas and understanding in physics.
"To be a political power, you have to suppress truth from morning to evening." And ... "Maybe my ideas are wrong. Of course they are wrong." Great quotes. I need to put them in my journal. Thanks. Also, extremely heartened that Carlo Rovelli disagrees propositiion that we exist within a simulation.
Why are you interested in whether the universe is a simulation or not? I always think it makes no difference at all since everything we can interact with is contained within it anyway
I find that his dismissal of the simulation theory was his weakest stance in this conversation. Silly, ludicrous, or whatever term he used is not a rebuttal. It's fine that he doesn't believe it but but he didn't offer any insightful counter arguments. Great conversation otherwise but I'm perplexed why this subject was used for the video title...
The simulation was very likely considered ‘catchy’ for today’s audience. I appreciated very much that he frankly refuted the idea of a simulation but even more that he brought it back to the current level of ‘human thinking’ … the idea of simulation is today’s prison of thoughts
I love the way Carlo doesn't finish statements that are obvious in the context of his previous words. So many sentences just end in thin air because there's no need to finish them. This increases the density of his communication...
>In 2023 he was one of the firmataries of the International Peace Conference manifesto which accuses USA-NATO-EU of being the aggressor in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. hahahaha
@@numberonedad Not sure why you find that "hahahaha" funny, but what I do know is you lifted that quote without citing your source. Do better, be better.
@@er... it's from wikipedia and just a fact. it's not possible to link to sources on youtube fyi, so do better, be better, before casting aspersions on others. the idea that autocracies have the right to invade their weaker neighbors due to international pressure has nothing to do with pacifism nor leftism, and that's what's funny. not sure how you could miss that.
@@numberonedad Two issues with your statement. 1. Setting aside the fact that it is a place to start research rathe then an end all be all, you can still cite Wikipedia without posting the link. 2. You contradicted yourself in a way that I cannot know where to start unpacking without posting an entire research paper. What I will say is you missed the mark entirely. Happy new year!
@@er... 1. apologies, i had figured his support of this absurd position was common knowledge among fans of his and wouldn't require a citation. 2. you'd prefer not to explain how USA-NATO-EU is the aggressor in the invasion of Ukraine, because there is no reasonable explanation. "Leftism" that excuses the crimes of autocrats is fraudulent. Happy New Year to you too!
Actually excited for this and so surprised to see this guy's picture pop up in my subscription feed. Probably my favorite author. You should absolutely read every one of this man's books if you're even casually interested in physics and the science of space-time. They're very accessible and beautifully written.
@@OutragedPufferfish I read Reality Is Not What It Seems and it was hugely enjoyable. I'm hoping my library gets in his other books on audiobook because it's the best way for me to comprehend books.
@@OutragedPufferfish "Seven Brief Lessons in Physics" is probably where I'd start. It's the most accessible and his other books build on things he talks about in this one. "Helgoland" and "Reality Is Not What It Seems" are my favorite I think, but they're honestly all great. He also has a book called "There Are Places in the World Where Rules Are Less Important Than Kindness" which is a collection of shorter essays he's written on all kinds of non-physics topics that's an interesting departure from his usual wheel house.
The fundamental problem with the simulation hypothesis is the following: it is epistemologically self-undermining. What that means is that if we are living in a simulation then the laws of physics we observe are part of the simulation as well. That means that we have no idea what the real laws of physics are in the non-simulated reality. Nick Bostrom’s (fellow Swede by the way; not a fan!) argument for why it’s likely that we live in a simulation is based on the laws of physics we observe in our universe. But these laws of physics might be simulated as well! So in that case we have no basis for our knowledge about anything, including the likelihood that we live in a simulation! So the hypothesis just undermines itself epistemologically. It’s like the Boltzmann brain idea.
You are stretching the concept to its limits here. I prefer a simpler explanation - the universe is a simulation and probably most of it does not exist in physical terms. The 'laws' of physics pertain to the human experience only, so yes, these laws are also part of the simulation, but this does not necessarily mean that the simulation of the universe is itself part of another simulation. What I do believe is that universe we live in, and our own human lives, are 'manufactured', i.e. exist to a set plan. Free will is an illusion because we have little or no choice as to how we live our lives, we are 'programmed' to live our lives in a certain way. If we didn't then we would simply do what gives us pleasure, i.e. have sex all the time and eat and drink until we die of excess. Human awareness of acceptable limits of behaviour is part of our programming.
As a computer programmer i think carlo has just oversimplified....and I think the actual reality can be infinite in all means....Because our world is finite and has alot of limitations and laws this strongly indicates that our reality canNot be the base reality...Moreover, "A scientific application simulates real-world activities using mathematics." then Why computer simulations are scientific applications?.....the existence of computer simulation itself indicates a strong probability...Apart from that, the old idea that everything in universe is machine was due to lack of knowledge of Quantum physics....But now we have both sides of reality ... Also i think laws of physics and logics are nothing but our understanding of simulation because we want to make sense of everything....Everythings seems to be logical because its programmed....Also i think you are neglecting the claim because of some dogmatic biases you have grounded your imagination on the idea that our world is only world that why you somehow want to avoid this possibility...
I have closely read (and tried to understand) Carlo Rovelli's The Order of Time and have listened to some of his interviews. With this interview (with its marvelous range, texture, and set of questions) I have new, profound respect for him. What a stimulating scientist, what a wonderful humanist and human being! To me, he represents the great tradition of Italian Renaissance, blending scientific rigor with philosophical and historical reflection. That is so unusual and valuable in this age of narrow specialization, even among the greatest scientists. Thank you!
Something I said a few times before: I wish more Heterosexual people would speak up for Gay people, and more White people to speak up for Black and Brown people...
you've caught my interest , an open and honest discussion . Einstein once said "It's not that I'm smarter than others ,it's just that I stay with problems longer ." love this talk .
Science and art often merge to create a thing of beauty. In music, the science of instrument manufacture provides a tool for the musician to apply skill and creativity. In photography, camera science and technical skill enable the vision of the photographer to create a masterpiece. As an artist, Picasso understood the need to learn technique when he said "learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist." Why must we separate knowledge in compartments? Why compartmentalise education?
At around 10:56 Aaron references the 1954 book ‘The Doors of Perception’ by Aldous Huxley, in which Huxley mentions William Blake (1757-1827)-which is probably why Aaron mistakenly attributed it to Blake here. In the book Huxley describes his experience of psychedelic experience under the influence of mescaline, as Aaron says in the conversation.
I feel Aaron's last question. I think some kind of spiritual rejuvenation is possible and I daresay desirable, while I also agree with Mr. Rovelli's stance that humanist values are to be found on the inside.... The thing is, isn't it, that this spiritual thing could be founded on a robust theory of subject/object dualism, and in such a paradigm causation by the efficient past is "an abstract limit in some circumstances of the creative interaction that governs the becoming of actual entities in all circumstances", and perhaps look something like Alfred N. Whitehead's organic cosmology. Then our sense of spiritual meaning in the cosmos would truly link up, as it would be precisely our capability of finding value within that we understand relates us to all the rest in a way that makes evident our self-worth. Or for now one could just hold that it's really nice for each individual to be able to express themselves fully and freely in this life in a way that's conducive to individual growth and social welfare.
He seems to be a realist. He understands current affairs. Surprisingly, not many people can do this, most are affected by current one sided news, stereotypes, propaganda, and hearsay.
Because I had minor brain damage I was put on Phenobarb at 4. At the same time I was raised by an Energy/Faith Healer Grandmother. This was in the early 50s so I wasn't "programmed" by TV commercials. I also lived a very isolated childhood spending most of the time in the woods. I was a blank canvas that was experiencing unique realities while being told how to use that energy to change the outcome. I SAW the problem, the healing and then the health. What a child experiences the first 7 years becomes their REALITY. My POINT is that I experienced a non physical life and was trained to operate in that. So YES, Reality is an illusion. Now I rent from a Native American woman in NM and have experienced the FRINGE of their Reality. Their Reality is NOT the same as mainstream USA> Heads up. Those Folks have a foot in both worlds now.
I document my experiences in art. In 1980 I started a book of collages because I was losing my Mind. Now 40 years later the art is about NOW. There are people's photos from magazines that I used....that I met 6 years ago. Because we live in a time where Reality has been recorded "Time" has been F**KED with.
Baghdad Renaissance was merely the act of collecting knowledge from India, China, Persia, Egypt and leftovers of ancient Hellenistic Greeks. Thanks for the translations into Arabic.
I think he's missing the point in simulation theory. It's not that there's any specific empirical evidence that we live in a simulation, it's a logical extrapolation based on the possibility that a simulated universe is possible. We don't currently know that this is the case, but if it is, it suddenly becomes infinitesimally unlikely that we just happen to inhabit the real universe that hosts all of the simulated ones.
The part discussing university life in Bologna at 13:13 where Carlo Reviolli mentions Deleuze and Guattari … I found his book The Order of Time after studying Deleuze’s philosophy of time and idea of three syntheses of time.
He's clearly a smart man but his comment that socialism is winning today is...not even close to being true which is a good thing. Capitalism is still very much so dominating the world economy.
If you want to deny the Abrahamic versions of God, that’s one thing. If you want to deny a creator altogether which is a highly logical thing to believe for how everything began, I need more then essentially everything was a big oopsie.
I was patient with the half answers, inchoate ideas, and trailing thoughts, but Rovelli totally lost me with his scorn for ideas he disagrees with in the last third of this interview. Not nearly as brilliant as I thought he would be.
Young people in China _definely_ worry about the future, and are are fed up with the present. He must be unfamiliar with the, e.g., "lying flat" and "let it rot" movements -- many Chinese youth no longer see a point in playing the game, and have given up on economic mobility. Also, regarding what China has been up to relative to Europe -- they've been up to things that are presently forcing them over an economic cliff. A ridiculously high fraction of their GDP was a real estate sector that basically amounted to a Ponzi scheme. And while I like high-speed rail as much as the next guy, much of their lines are hemmorhaging money and were shoddily built. Corruption is rampant, and an absurd amount of the budget goes to the maintenance of a gigantic, bloated corpse of a corrupt government. They're also belligerently running around the South China Sea trying to claim the whole place. ... there's an unpleasant whiff of Tankie-ism in this interview.
Time does exist but as a process not a dimension nor an absolute entity. and it’s normal that time is relative because time is a process that differ based on different observers (different calculations based on different situations).. time in physics has direct connection to distance , that’s why they couldn’t understand time at subatomic scale. (Time is a process). The current understanding of space and dimensions,….etc And how they took space, time, some constants and their roles,…etc as axioms,….. etc Infinity and the role of Pi, space is one indivisible unit and how could the fine structure constant is a sign that space is one indivisible unit must be maintained,….etc Dirac had the right to wonder (LNH). The only solution is to rely completely on future generations and invest in them (the fundamentals of physics are far much harder). Time is related to distance and velocity (interrelationships), they only make things more complicated to satisfy their wrong interpretations. 3:50 Gravity affects the measurement tools (clocks), not time itself directly! Because time is a process. and the assumption that light experience no time is not accurate assumption. Both Newton and Einstein had wrong understanding of time, time is not an independent entity (not a dimension nor an absolute entity). Time is a (process). There’s no chance to understand the fundamentals of physics without connecting both levels (subatomic and cosmological levels), that alone could take up to few hundreds of years of continuous scientific hard work. It’s very dangerous to rely on current pseudoscientists, they just hide under the cloaks of some former good physicists but they have nothing to add to science, many of them are storytellers.
He may be a historian of science but he doesnt have much of an understanding of human history. Prior to Christianity the Roman Empire was already vicious and an empire to boot that spread through much of the meditaranean with grandiose ideas of superiority so Christianity is not the harbinger of empire. Secondly, antiquity and the greeks also had notions of superiority in fact the athenians fancied themselves demi gods while they feared the barbarians at the gates aka the Spartans. By the way the confuscians aslo fancied themselves to be superior and looked down on the barbarian tribes of the steppes. Lastly, he mentions that our inner thoughts as humans are much better at coming up with a better society than revelation. But wait, you dont believe in a God so this so called outside vs inside dichotomy doesnt even make sense. Wouldn’t revelation be a human invention then since no God exist to have revealed such knowledge to us? You confuse me sir!
I was the other way around, I studied physics and then became a beggar, sadly not through choice. I can see the connection between physics and science, especially in how the disconnect between the scientific principles at the time of the enlightenment and now how haven't translated well into principles of good governance.
They dismissed and skipped over the simulation idea without actually discussing it properly. The idea is basically a thought experiment designed to look further and more radically into what David Chalmers calls the hard problem of consciousness.
I used to give some mental energy to simulation theory and I decided it didn’t matter. For all we will likely ever know, this is the one life we have and we should live it accordingly.
35:00 - helena sheehan wrote an excellent book about marxism and the philosophy of science, tracking all these debates from Marx and Engels to post WW2
He never said he doesn't believe in "god". He said that we all feel there is something beyond our comprehensive capacity that we call with different name and enjoy in different ways and I totally agree with him. We "see universe" we "don't understand it fully" but that doesn't prevent us to enjoy our earthy experience for whatever it is. We enjoy it in our minds. There are only 7 notes but millions of songs. Infinite creation is evident to every fool on earth if they observe with open mind. I am not religious, but I understand why people are. I believe there is something more to everything around us but we are unable to understand it completely because we are human beings. We have our limits. But within those limits we are able to thrive as much as the "laws of universe/god" make it possible.
If by system he means the CCP dictatorship allowing the development to happen then I agree that its proven better than 150+ countries around the world embracing democracy and cult-dictatorships which just breed corruption and failure. But separating China's development from the West doesn't make sense as it was unlocked by embracing markets and Western investment and offshoring.
There are boundaries beyond which we cannot make observation. This may be due to limitations in our current scientific abilities.. but what if these are defined limits which we cannot go beyond are fixed and unbreachable? What would that be an indication of, If not a simulation?
Maybe or just that we have reached the boundaries we are unable to breach because of the limitations of our matter. Would a 7 dimensional being have the same limitations? The film Arrival offers an intriguing idea/question around language impact on brain development and universe understanding.
Why not God? Is it easier to believe that we are in a simulation? Is there a practical difference beyond just how we conceptualize the universe? Personally, the simulation idea strikes me cold with dread, whereas the God idea seems to be far more "warm" and sensible, if not somewhat frightening in a different way.
39:33 Am I the odd one out here? When 16 I delivered a lecture to the French language club in our school. The topics were not assigned and I choose to talk about Henri Poincaré. Poincaré was at the forefront of development of Electrodynamics. He contributed to the idea of the speed of light being finite, corresponded with Hendrik Lorentz (hence not only Lorentz Group, but also Poincaré group), but his main contribution to science was contained in the work Sur le problème des trois corps et les équations de la dynamique [On the problem of the three bodies and the equations of dynamics]. Poincaré introduces concepts of non-integrable systems, qualitative analysis and develops analysis situs (topology) towards its modern shape. Call me biased, but I consider Poincaré's contributions of no less, in fact, greater impact on science, than those of Einstein. For most of the people, even for the scientists, the idea of non-integrable systems is something they instinctively desire to reject... This was the case with my audience. They questioned everything I said (although I had all the citations - something not usually demanded at such casual talks). They even questioned my pronunciation of Poincaré's name. Mine was right, they knew it, but their shaken belief in omniscience of science pressed them to take revenge...
Buddhism: The ego, the outward projected mind, creates a false reality, and we all live there. This false reality is called samsara. But there is a true reality, one we must access from within, by dissolving the ego and discovering the true mind.
probably worst interview i have seen aaron conduct, and it still wasn't terrible. he was clearly fanboying over carlo but didn't seem to have been prepared enough for this type of discussion, where there is a large gulf between their expertise, and so he is asking imprecise and vague questions of a physicist, which is rarely all that fruitful. Dawkins and this Carlo would disagree on very little and that would still be a more interesting conversation.
Aaron should have pushed harder with the notions of intelligent design and simulation theory. The best argument for the simulation thing is: we can do OK simulations right now; it is plausible that, with lots of time and resources, we will be able to make near-perfect simulations in the future; if there was a version of reality where near-perfect simulations were possible, there would be an infinitesimal amount of simulations and only one true reality. Given these factors, the chances of our reality NOT being a simulation are extremely low.
I don’t agree with all Carlo Rovelli said - especially when mentioning some historical events - but I enjoyed the conversation and I respect and like his thinking and humanist approach.
Great interview. The idea of simulation was only lightly touched and dismissed without much of an explanation. Not sure why that topic was chosen as the title. :)
Where would one find Einstein's 1914 Manifesto, It appears he refused to sign the manifesto of the Ninety-Three as he was a pacifist, but his own manifesto I cant seem to locate. Given that Carlo reiterates that he no longer wanted to be a vagabondesque individual, I'm wondering if he was at a time influenced by Herman Hesse's Siddhartha. Interestingly in regards to China, the wealth disparity is now higher than Europe and is reaching a point where it is close to such in the USA, I felt he was implying it was Socialist and I think China now requires novel definitions of what it is, its some sort of hybrid. Carlos beliefs don't seem to fit in with the binary of Atheism, he has meandering notions and intuitions that seem incompatible with such a fixed label, especially if we consider God to be in essence something "other" internally experienced, maybe humanitarianism is connected with the acceptance of the intangible notion of the evenly dispersed sacred, the opposite of Ultra Nationalism, maybe intuitive wisdoms of the past, in a sense precursors to faith based systems, to a degree should be retained via reinterpretation. On a sidenote nice Tradescantia (burgandy ?) on the shelf!
It's a deterministic future. We're on a 2d plane but 3d space allows for variables in your timeline, which is a direct result of memory retention or information that must be held by the laws of physics. Proven: if you isolate a blackhole, it still expands due to probability alone...it makes 3d space. Time is just an expression of how that information travels to and from you. In other words...everytime you orientate your position in space you make a probability in the future and those interactions are accounted for by making 3d space.
Aldous Huxley and Mescaline. Quoting William Blake. :) Did you know Captain Beefheart - when he was a door-to-door salesman - once tried to sell AH a vacuum cleaner? A truly epochal intellectual encounter, which took place over a Kirby.
Its funny because i was interested with this topic long ago.. Until i was thinking does it matter we living in simulation or not? My problems are real enough for me to handle 😂
As ever, I loved listening to Carlo Rovelli. I would have enjoyed the interview even more if Aaron Bastani had calmed down a little when it came to presenting his own interpretations of Rovelli's ideas. ;-)
1:01:00 Time travel is only possible through cycle two and only forward but it’s not possible to travel back in time (Time is a process), it’s only possible to see the past as if it’s a recorded film that too will not happen before humans reach cycle two which requires deciphering both gravity and consciousness type one.
I find it fascinating. I believe that we will know the answer to this if we become capable of creating, with our knowledge through technology, inventions conscious of their existence and surroundings. This would be very difficult, however. If we cannot achieve it, it is because what we create will always be non-conscious and will respond to commands given by humans and their laws, limiting them, as the creator is limited. This could also mean that we might be in a simulation where our way of thinking, among other things, would be programmed, and there would only be a bit of randomness when we are 'free' to think. If you observe a game, it was created by a human, and this game will have characters and phenomena that do not necessarily correspond to reality. In other words, these may be more limited or exaggerated, but making them identical to reality is very difficult. So, if something created this reality we are in, and this reality is the game, then that something could be limiting us or creating a reality with beings and phenomena more extravagant and capable of things that the creator cannot do or is limited in. This doesn't end here, as that creator could be part of a larger simulation where that creator is just another character, and the reality or creation itself of all things would be multiple fractals at different scales, where the repeating pattern is the simulation itself.
I thought that science had gone off the idea of the recycling, beating heart universe idea. My favourite scientists, my favourite people are those that echo the words of one of my fave quotes for decades: 'All I know is that I know nothing.' Socrates. I was very tickled to discover that he probably didn't say this...
My second degree was in physics, I started in my 30s after having studied philosophy and as a passionate musician. Physics is no less creative than the arts, the ends might be different but physics requires ample creativity so as to create a model and/or understanding that is truly new.
It's a shame that physics and mathematics aren't taught with an aim of discovery and creation, rather than only understanding the basics of the tools of the subject. It is a little like learning an instrument but only practicing scales.
Interestingly, on mind altering states, I find intense exercise and playing music seems to inspire ideas and understanding in physics.
Just to add, I'm about to (hopefully) embark upon reserch in theoretical physics this year.
Didn't Einstein say something like creativity is more important than intelligence?
I admire your passion and enthusiasm and wish you all the best in your adventures in the world of theoretical physics@@thomasullmann7447
I’m going to remember this.
Great idea. Yes physics should be used to create. Its creative. It makes devices.
From interstellar to simulation theory, I feel Aaron has had a few bubbles burst during this interview! Loved this interview ❤
"To be a political power, you have to suppress truth from morning to evening." And ... "Maybe my ideas are wrong. Of course they are wrong." Great quotes. I need to put them in my journal. Thanks. Also, extremely heartened that Carlo Rovelli disagrees propositiion that we exist within a simulation.
second quote is particularly a propos
Why are you interested in whether the universe is a simulation or not? I always think it makes no difference at all since everything we can interact with is contained within it anyway
“Freedom is ignorance of ourselves. And that’s fine”
I find that his dismissal of the simulation theory was his weakest stance in this conversation. Silly, ludicrous, or whatever term he used is not a rebuttal. It's fine that he doesn't believe it but but he didn't offer any insightful counter arguments. Great conversation otherwise but I'm perplexed why this subject was used for the video title...
The simulation was very likely considered ‘catchy’ for today’s audience. I appreciated very much that he frankly refuted the idea of a simulation but even more that he brought it back to the current level of ‘human thinking’ … the idea of simulation is today’s prison of thoughts
Dear Novara Media, your takes on the Palestinian conflict have been really good. Please don't stop.
Kind regards.
FABULOUS HUMAN BEING 🙏
What a nice man. Thanks Aaron for inviting him.
Happy New year to you all at NM and thank you for your honest reporting and bringing a little hope to us all
I live in Santa Fe....I'll take your Good Wishes. Blessings.
I thought this interview was never going to be uploaded. What a new year gift by Novara. Thank you.
I love the way Carlo doesn't finish statements that are obvious in the context of his previous words. So many sentences just end in thin air because there's no need to finish them. This increases the density of his communication...
imho i'd say we
What an amazing guest and great conversation!
Thank you Novara Media
Carlo Rovelli is such an amazing writer. Seeing this interview pop up is an absolute dream!
>In 2023 he was one of the firmataries of the International Peace Conference manifesto which accuses USA-NATO-EU of being the aggressor in the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
hahahaha
@@numberonedad Not sure why you find that "hahahaha" funny, but what I do know is you lifted that quote without citing your source. Do better, be better.
@@er... it's from wikipedia and just a fact. it's not possible to link to sources on youtube fyi, so do better, be better, before casting aspersions on others.
the idea that autocracies have the right to invade their weaker neighbors due to international pressure has nothing to do with pacifism nor leftism, and that's what's funny. not sure how you could miss that.
@@numberonedad Two issues with your statement.
1. Setting aside the fact that it is a place to start research rathe then an end all be all, you can still cite Wikipedia without posting the link.
2. You contradicted yourself in a way that I cannot know where to start unpacking without posting an entire research paper. What I will say is you missed the mark entirely.
Happy new year!
@@er... 1. apologies, i had figured his support of this absurd position was common knowledge among fans of his and wouldn't require a citation.
2. you'd prefer not to explain how USA-NATO-EU is the aggressor in the invasion of Ukraine, because there is no reasonable explanation. "Leftism" that excuses the crimes of autocrats is fraudulent.
Happy New Year to you too!
I’ve lived in Italy for years. Rovelli is a great example of what amazing people Italians can be, when they’re not being Giorgia Meloni.
How to spot an populist extremist? All he/she/they does is speak about the opposite end of the spectrum.
Very well said.
thank you :)
So you dont agree with Meloni's views on things? How does that discredit her?
Actually excited for this and so surprised to see this guy's picture pop up in my subscription feed. Probably my favorite author. You should absolutely read every one of this man's books if you're even casually interested in physics and the science of space-time. They're very accessible and beautifully written.
Which of his books would you recommend to me to start with?
@@OutragedPufferfish I read Reality Is Not What It Seems and it was hugely enjoyable. I'm hoping my library gets in his other books on audiobook because it's the best way for me to comprehend books.
@@Definatalie Thank you!
@@OutragedPufferfish "Seven Brief Lessons in Physics" is probably where I'd start. It's the most accessible and his other books build on things he talks about in this one. "Helgoland" and "Reality Is Not What It Seems" are my favorite I think, but they're honestly all great. He also has a book called "There Are Places in the World Where Rules Are Less Important Than Kindness" which is a collection of shorter essays he's written on all kinds of non-physics topics that's an interesting departure from his usual wheel house.
I’ve never heard of this dude, but i thoroughly enjoyed this conversation
The fundamental problem with the simulation hypothesis is the following: it is epistemologically self-undermining. What that means is that if we are living in a simulation then the laws of physics we observe are part of the simulation as well. That means that we have no idea what the real laws of physics are in the non-simulated reality. Nick Bostrom’s (fellow Swede by the way; not a fan!) argument for why it’s likely that we live in a simulation is based on the laws of physics we observe in our universe. But these laws of physics might be simulated as well! So in that case we have no basis for our knowledge about anything, including the likelihood that we live in a simulation! So the hypothesis just undermines itself epistemologically. It’s like the Boltzmann brain idea.
You are stretching the concept to its limits here. I prefer a simpler explanation - the universe is a simulation and probably most of it does not exist in physical terms. The 'laws' of physics pertain to the human experience only, so yes, these laws are also part of the simulation, but this does not necessarily mean that the simulation of the universe is itself part of another simulation. What I do believe is that universe we live in, and our own human lives, are 'manufactured', i.e. exist to a set plan. Free will is an illusion because we have little or no choice as to how we live our lives, we are 'programmed' to live our lives in a certain way. If we didn't then we would simply do what gives us pleasure, i.e. have sex all the time and eat and drink until we die of excess. Human awareness of acceptable limits of behaviour is part of our programming.
@@tancreddehauteville764that's an unfortunate delusion to hold
As a computer programmer i think carlo has just oversimplified....and I think the actual reality can be infinite in all means....Because our world is finite and has alot of limitations and laws this strongly indicates that our reality canNot be the base reality...Moreover,
"A scientific application simulates real-world activities using mathematics."
then Why computer simulations are scientific applications?.....the existence of computer simulation itself indicates a strong probability...Apart from that, the old idea that everything in universe is machine was due to lack of knowledge of Quantum physics....But now we have both sides of reality ...
Also i think laws of physics and logics are nothing but our understanding of simulation because we want to make sense of everything....Everythings seems to be logical because its programmed....Also i think you are neglecting the claim because of some dogmatic biases you have grounded your imagination on the idea that our world is only world that why you somehow want to avoid this possibility...
I have closely read (and tried to understand) Carlo Rovelli's The Order of Time and have listened to some of his interviews. With this interview (with its marvelous range, texture, and set of questions) I have new, profound respect for him. What a stimulating scientist, what a wonderful humanist and human being! To me, he represents the great tradition of Italian Renaissance, blending scientific rigor with philosophical and historical reflection. That is so unusual and valuable in this age of narrow specialization, even among the greatest scientists. Thank you!
Thanks for this brilliant interview ❤
Thank you for introducing me to this wonderful scholar. Imagine if we had political leaders with the logic, insights & philosophy of Carlo Rovelli.
I love that Mr Bastani isn't hesitating, but straight out says "it's completely implausible".
bastani is the interviewer btw
SPEAK TRUTH AND OWN IT PEOPLE 👌
Something I said a few times before: I wish more Heterosexual people would speak up for Gay people, and more White people to speak
up for Black and Brown people...
Really looking forward to this discussion.
you've caught my interest , an open and honest discussion . Einstein once said "It's not that I'm smarter than others ,it's just that I stay with problems longer ." love this talk .
Science and art often merge to create a thing of beauty. In music, the science of instrument manufacture provides a tool for the musician to apply skill and creativity. In photography, camera science and technical skill enable the vision of the photographer to create a masterpiece. As an artist, Picasso understood the need to learn technique when he said "learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist." Why must we separate knowledge in compartments? Why compartmentalise education?
Oh thank you so much for this super interesting conversation!! love it.
One of the best conversations I have listened to. Carlo Rovelli and I are from the same generation so I had no trouble understanding him.
At around 10:56 Aaron references the 1954 book ‘The Doors of Perception’ by Aldous Huxley, in which Huxley mentions William Blake (1757-1827)-which is probably why Aaron mistakenly attributed it to Blake here. In the book Huxley describes his experience of psychedelic experience under the influence of mescaline, as Aaron says in the conversation.
Isn't the simulation argument just a revival of gnosticism? This was a fabulous interview, more Carlo please
Mhmm, that’s exactly what I’ve been saying!
Wow, you're right!
I feel Aaron's last question. I think some kind of spiritual rejuvenation is possible and I daresay desirable, while I also agree with Mr. Rovelli's stance that humanist values are to be found on the inside....
The thing is, isn't it, that this spiritual thing could be founded on a robust theory of subject/object dualism, and in such a paradigm causation by the efficient past is "an abstract limit in some circumstances of the creative interaction that governs the becoming of actual entities in all circumstances", and perhaps look something like Alfred N. Whitehead's organic cosmology. Then our sense of spiritual meaning in the cosmos would truly link up, as it would be precisely our capability of finding value within that we understand relates us to all the rest in a way that makes evident our self-worth.
Or for now one could just hold that it's really nice for each individual to be able to express themselves fully and freely in this life in a way that's conducive to individual growth and social welfare.
"Science is a wonderful space of freedom". Und so bewegt sich doch! Great stuff.
Everything’s technology humanity couldn’t exist without it. We die in the night.
totally agree with Rovelli that there is too much pressure on academics to come up with things quickly. They need more time than they are given.
He seems to be a realist. He understands current affairs. Surprisingly, not many people can do this, most are affected by current one sided news, stereotypes, propaganda, and hearsay.
I loved this interview ❤️
Excellent conversation with a great mind... thank you for this
I've been waiting for this one!! Thank you Novara for introducing us to Carlo and his work. Ordered some of his books from the local library.
HAPPY NEW YEAR NM , keep on and thanks
Great interview Aaron. Keep up the amazing work Novara. You bring hope❤
Not Engels! The living Stalin and Lysenko, he's surely talking about (regarding biology in 50s-60s USSR).
Because I had minor brain damage I was put on Phenobarb at 4. At the same time I was raised by an Energy/Faith Healer Grandmother. This was in the early 50s so I wasn't "programmed" by TV commercials. I also lived a very isolated childhood spending most of the time in the woods. I was a blank canvas that was experiencing unique realities while being told how to use that energy to change the outcome. I SAW the problem, the healing and then the health. What a child experiences the first 7 years becomes their REALITY.
My POINT is that I experienced a non physical life and was trained to operate in that. So YES, Reality is an illusion.
Now I rent from a Native American woman in NM and have experienced the FRINGE of their Reality. Their Reality is NOT the same as mainstream USA> Heads up. Those Folks have a foot in both worlds now.
I document my experiences in art. In 1980 I started a book of collages because I was losing my Mind. Now 40 years later the art is about NOW. There are people's photos from magazines that I used....that I met 6 years ago.
Because we live in a time where Reality has been recorded "Time" has been F**KED with.
Interesting and stimulating ideas, thank you.
I listened to this man lecture at the royal college of science on Time. I Clicked the video immediately. Hoping to learn alot.
Baghdad Renaissance was merely the act of collecting knowledge from India, China, Persia, Egypt and leftovers of ancient Hellenistic Greeks. Thanks for the translations into Arabic.
Sometimes I think there is a hell, and I am in it.
I think he's missing the point in simulation theory. It's not that there's any specific empirical evidence that we live in a simulation, it's a logical extrapolation based on the possibility that a simulated universe is possible. We don't currently know that this is the case, but if it is, it suddenly becomes infinitesimally unlikely that we just happen to inhabit the real universe that hosts all of the simulated ones.
The part discussing university life in Bologna at 13:13 where Carlo Reviolli mentions Deleuze and Guattari … I found his book The Order of Time after studying Deleuze’s philosophy of time and idea of three syntheses of time.
This is why I love downstream!
That was such an interesting and wide ranging conversation.
What a great start to 2024. 🎉
He's clearly a smart man but his comment that socialism is winning today is...not even close to being true which is a good thing. Capitalism is still very much so dominating the world economy.
If you want to deny the Abrahamic versions of God, that’s one thing. If you want to deny a creator altogether which is a highly logical thing to believe for how everything began, I need more then essentially everything was a big oopsie.
Doors of Perception was Aldous Huxley
Thanks for the very interview. Much interesting
I was patient with the half answers, inchoate ideas, and trailing thoughts, but Rovelli totally lost me with his scorn for ideas he disagrees with in the last third of this interview. Not nearly as brilliant as I thought he would be.
I thought I would go mad waiting for him to finish a thought.
@@CAM-fq8lv And the swallowing sounds.
An important contemporary thinker with humanist values. Love his writing
Young people in China _definely_ worry about the future, and are are fed up with the present. He must be unfamiliar with the, e.g., "lying flat" and "let it rot" movements -- many Chinese youth no longer see a point in playing the game, and have given up on economic mobility.
Also, regarding what China has been up to relative to Europe -- they've been up to things that are presently forcing them over an economic cliff. A ridiculously high fraction of their GDP was a real estate sector that basically amounted to a Ponzi scheme. And while I like high-speed rail as much as the next guy, much of their lines are hemmorhaging money and were shoddily built. Corruption is rampant, and an absurd amount of the budget goes to the maintenance of a gigantic, bloated corpse of a corrupt government. They're also belligerently running around the South China Sea trying to claim the whole place. ... there's an unpleasant whiff of Tankie-ism in this interview.
An excellent guest👍 Need to see Carlo have a debate with Robert Salporsky on the issue of free will....
Time does exist but as a process not a dimension nor an absolute entity.
and it’s normal that time is relative because time is a process that differ based on different observers (different calculations based on different situations)..
time in physics has direct connection to distance , that’s why they couldn’t understand time at subatomic scale.
(Time is a process).
The current understanding of space and dimensions,….etc
And how they took space, time, some constants and their roles,…etc as axioms,….. etc
Infinity and the role of Pi, space is one indivisible unit and how could the fine structure constant is a sign that space is one indivisible unit must be maintained,….etc
Dirac had the right to wonder (LNH).
The only solution is to rely completely on future generations and invest in them (the fundamentals of physics are far much harder).
Time is related to distance and velocity (interrelationships), they only make things more complicated to satisfy their wrong interpretations.
3:50 Gravity affects the measurement tools (clocks), not time itself directly!
Because time is a process.
and the assumption that light experience no time is not accurate assumption.
Both Newton and Einstein had wrong understanding of time, time is not an independent entity (not a dimension nor an absolute entity).
Time is a (process).
There’s no chance to understand the fundamentals of physics without connecting both levels (subatomic and cosmological levels), that alone could take up to few hundreds of years of continuous scientific hard work.
It’s very dangerous to rely on current pseudoscientists, they just hide under the cloaks of some former good physicists but they have nothing to add to science, many of them are storytellers.
He may be a historian of science but he doesnt have much of an understanding of human history. Prior to Christianity the Roman Empire was already vicious and an empire to boot that spread through much of the meditaranean with grandiose ideas of superiority so Christianity is not the harbinger of empire. Secondly, antiquity and the greeks also had notions of superiority in fact the athenians fancied themselves demi gods while they feared the barbarians at the gates aka the Spartans. By the way the confuscians aslo fancied themselves to be superior and looked down on the barbarian tribes of the steppes. Lastly, he mentions that our inner thoughts as humans are much better at coming up with a better society than revelation. But wait, you dont believe in a God so this so called outside vs inside dichotomy doesnt even make sense. Wouldn’t revelation be a human invention then since no God exist to have revealed such knowledge to us? You confuse me sir!
"William Blake Doors of Perception" lololol!
It’s Aldous Huxley isn’t it?
No, he's right. The phrase came from William Blake and was popularized by Huxley when he used it as the title of a book.
A lovely man with a very fine mind.
I was the other way around, I studied physics and then became a beggar, sadly not through choice. I can see the connection between physics and science, especially in how the disconnect between the scientific principles at the time of the enlightenment and now how haven't translated well into principles of good governance.
What a fascinating interview. Really enjoyed listening to Carlo. Highly recommend
They dismissed and skipped over the simulation idea without actually discussing it properly. The idea is basically a thought experiment designed to look further and more radically into what David Chalmers calls the hard problem of consciousness.
I used to give some mental energy to simulation theory and I decided it didn’t matter. For all we will likely ever know, this is the one life we have and we should live it accordingly.
Truly fascinating just simply listening to be observing good topics and perspectives. ❤ 🙏🏾✌🏾✌🏾✌🏾
Love this
49:45 according to Our World in Data the literacy rate in China was 65.5% in 1982, 97.2% in 2020.
Beautiful bit of brain food to mull over at the start of the new year 🙂
Very interesting discussion
Excellent!
35:00 - helena sheehan wrote an excellent book about marxism and the philosophy of science, tracking all these debates from Marx and Engels to post WW2
He never said he doesn't believe in "god". He said that we all feel there is something beyond our comprehensive capacity that we call with different name and enjoy in different ways and I totally agree with him. We "see universe" we "don't understand it fully" but that doesn't prevent us to enjoy our earthy experience for whatever it is. We enjoy it in our minds. There are only 7 notes but millions of songs. Infinite creation is evident to every fool on earth if they observe with open mind. I am not religious, but I understand why people are. I believe there is something more to everything around us but we are unable to understand it completely because we are human beings. We have our limits. But within those limits we are able to thrive as much as the "laws of universe/god" make it possible.
If by system he means the CCP dictatorship allowing the development to happen then I agree that its proven better than 150+ countries around the world embracing democracy and cult-dictatorships which just breed corruption and failure.
But separating China's development from the West doesn't make sense as it was unlocked by embracing markets and Western investment and offshoring.
Yes he can, thank you both.
Bernardo Kastrup also.
There are boundaries beyond which we cannot make observation. This may be due to limitations in our current scientific abilities.. but what if these are defined limits which we cannot go beyond are fixed and unbreachable? What would that be an indication of, If not a simulation?
Maybe or just that we have reached the boundaries we are unable to breach because of the limitations of our matter. Would a 7 dimensional being have the same limitations? The film Arrival offers an intriguing idea/question around language impact on brain development and universe understanding.
Why not God? Is it easier to believe that we are in a simulation? Is there a practical difference beyond just how we conceptualize the universe? Personally, the simulation idea strikes me cold with dread, whereas the God idea seems to be far more "warm" and sensible, if not somewhat frightening in a different way.
39:33 Am I the odd one out here?
When 16 I delivered a lecture to the French language club in our school. The topics were not assigned and I choose to talk about Henri Poincaré. Poincaré was at the forefront of development of Electrodynamics. He contributed to the idea of the speed of light being finite, corresponded with Hendrik Lorentz (hence not only Lorentz Group, but also Poincaré group), but his main contribution to science was contained in the work Sur le problème des trois corps et les équations de la dynamique [On the problem of the three bodies and the equations of dynamics].
Poincaré introduces concepts of non-integrable systems, qualitative analysis and develops analysis situs (topology) towards its modern shape. Call me biased, but I consider Poincaré's contributions of no less, in fact, greater impact on science, than those of Einstein.
For most of the people, even for the scientists, the idea of non-integrable systems is something they instinctively desire to reject... This was the case with my audience. They questioned everything I said (although I had all the citations - something not usually demanded at such casual talks). They even questioned my pronunciation of Poincaré's name. Mine was right, they knew it, but their shaken belief in omniscience of science pressed them to take revenge...
hyped up
Excellent ce Rovelli surtout qu'ici il parle aussi politique et philosophie / J'apprécie ce podcast British relish all dress! Merci!
Great questions, but the answers were not satisfying honestly. He's a great middle aged speaker of knowledge
I'd be surprised if William Blake had access to mescaline ... think you may be thinking of Huxley.
Interviewer is confused about the timeline. Probably because simulation. Also might just be a random UA-cam dumb dumb. 🤷♂️
Buddhism: The ego, the outward projected mind, creates a false reality, and we all live there. This false reality is called samsara. But there is a true reality, one we must access from within, by dissolving the ego and discovering the true mind.
This interview needed to go on for longer, they'd only just taken their trousers off when it finished.
probably worst interview i have seen aaron conduct, and it still wasn't terrible. he was clearly fanboying over carlo but didn't seem to have been prepared enough for this type of discussion, where there is a large gulf between their expertise, and so he is asking imprecise and vague questions of a physicist, which is rarely all that fruitful. Dawkins and this Carlo would disagree on very little and that would still be a more interesting conversation.
Aaron should have pushed harder with the notions of intelligent design and simulation theory. The best argument for the simulation thing is: we can do OK simulations right now; it is plausible that, with lots of time and resources, we will be able to make near-perfect simulations in the future; if there was a version of reality where near-perfect simulations were possible, there would be an infinitesimal amount of simulations and only one true reality. Given these factors, the chances of our reality NOT being a simulation are extremely low.
I don’t agree with all Carlo Rovelli said - especially when mentioning some historical events - but I enjoyed the conversation and I respect and like his thinking and humanist approach.
what a wonderful crossover episode, can't wait to get home and watch!
Realize with the different cultural backgrounds it's not the same but would be interested in Dr. Rovelli's input on the Mandela Effect.
Great interview. The idea of simulation was only lightly touched and dismissed without much of an explanation. Not sure why that topic was chosen as the title. :)
Where would one find Einstein's 1914 Manifesto, It appears he refused to sign the manifesto of the Ninety-Three as he was a pacifist, but his own manifesto I cant seem to locate. Given that Carlo reiterates that he no longer wanted to be a vagabondesque individual, I'm wondering if he was at a time influenced by Herman Hesse's Siddhartha. Interestingly in regards to China, the wealth disparity is now higher than Europe and is reaching a point where it is close to such in the USA, I felt he was implying it was Socialist and I think China now requires novel definitions of what it is, its some sort of hybrid. Carlos beliefs don't seem to fit in with the binary of Atheism, he has meandering notions and intuitions that seem incompatible with such a fixed label, especially if we consider God to be in essence something "other" internally experienced, maybe humanitarianism is connected with the acceptance of the intangible notion of the evenly dispersed sacred, the opposite of Ultra Nationalism, maybe intuitive wisdoms of the past, in a sense precursors to faith based systems, to a degree should be retained via reinterpretation. On a sidenote nice Tradescantia (burgandy ?) on the shelf!
It's a deterministic future. We're on a 2d plane but 3d space allows for variables in your timeline, which is a direct result of memory retention or information that must be held by the laws of physics. Proven: if you isolate a blackhole, it still expands due to probability alone...it makes 3d space. Time is just an expression of how that information travels to and from you. In other words...everytime you orientate your position in space you make a probability in the future and those interactions are accounted for by making 3d space.
Aldous Huxley and Mescaline. Quoting William Blake. :) Did you know Captain Beefheart - when he was a door-to-door salesman - once tried to sell AH a vacuum cleaner? A truly epochal intellectual encounter, which took place over a Kirby.
Its funny because i was interested with this topic long ago.. Until i was thinking does it matter we living in simulation or not? My problems are real enough for me to handle 😂
As ever, I loved listening to Carlo Rovelli. I would have enjoyed the interview even more if Aaron Bastani had calmed down a little when it came to presenting his own interpretations of Rovelli's ideas.
;-)
Aaron trying to convince him of the possibility that we are living in a simulation.
He just wasn’t having it!
1:02:00 all the details of explaining the mechanism of Time as a process were written both in physics (Time as function) and in human brain.
I want a copy of Carlo's Pirate Radio Book. I was in Italy with my husband in 1970's and he was held by the the Carbenary as a Red Brigade member.
1:01:00 Time travel is only possible through cycle two and only forward but it’s not possible to travel back in time (Time is a process), it’s only possible to see the past as if it’s a recorded film that too will not happen before humans reach cycle two which requires deciphering both gravity and consciousness type one.
I find it fascinating. I believe that we will know the answer to this if we become capable of creating, with our knowledge through technology, inventions conscious of their existence and surroundings. This would be very difficult, however. If we cannot achieve it, it is because what we create will always be non-conscious and will respond to commands given by humans and their laws, limiting them, as the creator is limited. This could also mean that we might be in a simulation where our way of thinking, among other things, would be programmed, and there would only be a bit of randomness when we are 'free' to think.
If you observe a game, it was created by a human, and this game will have characters and phenomena that do not necessarily correspond to reality. In other words, these may be more limited or exaggerated, but making them identical to reality is very difficult. So, if something created this reality we are in, and this reality is the game, then that something could be limiting us or creating a reality with beings and phenomena more extravagant and capable of things that the creator cannot do or is limited in.
This doesn't end here, as that creator could be part of a larger simulation where that creator is just another character, and the reality or creation itself of all things would be multiple fractals at different scales, where the repeating pattern is the simulation itself.
aaron bastani wanted several times to shoehorn his progre agenda on rovelli. bad interviewer
I thought that science had gone off the idea of the recycling, beating heart universe idea.
My favourite scientists, my favourite people are those that echo the words of one of my fave quotes for decades:
'All I know is that I know nothing.' Socrates.
I was very tickled to discover that he probably didn't say this...
what did he say after 'radio' at 14:32?
"Radio Alice", the name of the 'open-speaking radio', born in that period in Italy because new ideas were repressed by the reigning government.