What Are Rubber-tire Trams?! What is this thing?!?! - Translohr
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2021
- What is a rubber tire tram, what are the benefits, what are the disadvantages of this system? Do you like it or should be destroyed and replaced with a real tram?!
Check out full length footage of these trams:
Venice:
• This Tram Operates on ...
Medellin:
• Rubber-Tire Trams in M...
Paris:
• Rubber-tyred tram in P...
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Please comment if you have opinions or facts to share about the video or transit in general! Its a learning process for all of us and I enjoy being educated on what in the end we all love: transportation - Авто та транспорт
![[Doku] Eine Straßenbahn mit Reifen | Translohr in Paris (2023)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/L8kCn19WocQ/mqdefault.jpg)
In hilly Medellin it makes sense. In Venice/Mestre and Paris it is just a gimmick.
Nah still pretty dumb. They can take those easily still on metal wheels. There’s a great video on here of a night tram speeding through up and down slopes in narrow city streets.
@@kishascapeYes, the number 28 tram in Lisbon.
I live in Sheffield and the supertram does 10% gradient, sometimes in snow. So pretty sure steel wheels can get up gradients if you want them too.
@@onlineo2263 The video stated that this particular "tram" could do 13% slope.
Seems like this system perfectly combines the disadvantages of bus and tram systems.
It's designed for areas that conventional trams can't operate:
High gradient hills.
Streets with tight turn radii, particularly in old towns/cities.
Neighbourhoods where noise control is important.
They can also accelerate faster and slow down more quickly.
Its biggest disadvantage is that its a proprietary system and automatically more expensive than conventional trams. Trolley bus is much, much cheaper.
@@EdgyNumber1 Well you could make a tram, which can climb steep hills and make sharp turns, it would still be somewhat unconventional ( especially for the steep hill climbing, as sharp turning is not as much of a problem ), but it can be done. Faster acceleration and deceleration is nice, though in this case, it is at cost of effectivity of the ride overall and it's power consumption which is less than ideal.
@@milokojjones can you show an example please, 13% gradient climbing tram, with similar capacity (Translohr can be up to 46 meters), which can stop &start uphill.
@@kekessalman Dont forget to mention 120 degree turns in a full length train too!
Agree, at least the new "trackless tram" are actually trackless and wireless, this thing here just wasteful.
Although, they said this system is good for hilly areas like Medelin, but they could just used bus and saved tons of money.
Yes, it is useful just for specific areas ... "Mountain tram" for cities on hills with (mostly tourist mountain towns) with fixed high capacity route needed..otherwise not much to look for from city perspective
No, it isnt. Only a waste of money.
Oslo tram can get up some pretty steep hills so i dont see why you would want it
Nope, regular trams can climb hills much more effectively than many people think
@@IldenMelder from city who have tighers turns this tram can help.
@@grassytramtracks from city who have tighers turns this tram can help.
I see more disadvantages than advantages. To say nothing of cost and maintenance. The tires probably wear out faster than steel wheels.
Thank you for presenting the idea.
In cities like Medellin, its a good alternative cuz it can overtake steeper slopes, otherwise its just waste of money, its similar to trolleybus and seems to have more capacity, at least in Venice, in Paris a simple regular tram with steel wheels can do the work far more cheaper
@@allancoelho6905 Just build a trolleybus, this system is taking the worse of both trams and buses and putting it together.
@@DeltaXFish well yes, but actually yes
@@allancoelho6905 no, they arent. Conventional trams can go up very steep slopes.
@@MarceloBenoit-trenes now that you said it i remember Santa Teresa tram, here in Rio de Janeiro
There is a thing that also uses rubber tires.
It is called the troleybus.
A trolleybus doesn't have the capacity of one of these
@@jordanmaris1641 so this is a M A S S I V E trolley
@@jordanmaris1641 but they can get pretty big: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hess_lighTram_Trolley
Translohr uses single wire and pantograph, trolleybuses use two wires and sensitive connections.
Translohr is guided (I guess trolleybuses can be guided too), 46 meter Translohr can be operated by single driver just using a dead man switch.
You haven't mentioned two other disadvantages:
- switching mechanisms are very complex especially on x crossings
- the gap between pavement and rail is huge, compared to a classic tram rail. This fact makes translohr rails even more dangerous for cyclists.
You are right, Lorail Train Passion, in Italy the town Padua, which has such a system, received a lot of claims from citizens, who had problems with their bikes and falled down due to this gap
Why would there being a large gap between the rail and the pavement make it more dangerous for cyclists? surely that would just create a larger space in the road for cyclists to ride in between the rail and the pavement?
@@kidsea13 Sorry, I explained it not so well. The cyclists must be very careful while riding because the bike wheels often get stuck in the rail and they fall from the bike. It occurred me too, crossing the road with my bike where the tram passes, I got stuck and fell
@@Trento68 Oh, the rail creates a big gap in the road; that makes sense. That does sound very dangerous... thank you for the explanation
Can I derail it just by putting a speed bump like a two by four under the tires so the guide wheels are lifted off the rail?
One major disadvantage that you have mentioned is that since the Translohr system is a proprietary technology, once you adopt its infrastructure, you're essentially locked in a single vendor when it comes to rolling stock. If you adopt a conventional tram infrastructure, you are mostly limited by your track gauge and loading gauge, but those are fairly standardized across manufacturers.
Interoperability = 0, especially in Paris.
It doesn't allow for grassy trackbeds as well, which can improve the attractivity, ecological value and water infiltration possibilities of a street enormously.
And in city centres, you still have the overhead wires. While with tram systems, you have quite some interesting solutions with a third rail (Bordeaux), or batteries (Luxemburg).
Catenary-free tram systems are IMO always manifestations of political failure. Overhead wires have no real drawbacks at all and each kind of replacement, may it be batteries or ground-bound systems, come with some waste of power and money resources.
These semitrams can run on batteries too. Were you paying attention?
Bordeaux trams are catenary/battery. They drop the pan for running through the old parts of the city so as to not spoil the look of the architecture.
@@josephturner4047 in the city centre they use a 3rd rail that only goes live when fully covered by the tram
The whole POINT of a translohr is it has a battery for city operations. Also a simple rail next to the drive rail would fix that, even easier than just a conventional rail.
The bogie design is actually much more complicated than you might think. The guide wheels are mounted on linkages ahead and behind of the main load bearing tires. In a given direction, the set of guide wheels which are ahead of the tires are fixed/rigid to the steering linkage and the trailing set of guide wheels are "floated" by hydraulically releasing the linkage. When the tram reverses direction, the guide wheel linkage which was previously trailing is then made rigid and the opposite for the other set.
Nearly the same design of bogie will be in place on the Cityval on Ligne B in Rennes.
These vehicles are only as comfortable as the road surface allows. I have ridden on two systems - Nancy and Paris T5. Both were very bouncy, rumbling and banging as the rubber tyres had worn grooves in the tarmac which had deteriorated badly. Standing on board these is not a pleasant experience and rubber on concrete or tarmac can never match the smoothness of steel on steel. Also, the wearing of the rubber and the crumbling concrete or tarmac create more airborne pollution or damaging run-off.
They run on a concrete layer covered with industrial grade floor coating, not tarmac. I too thought that it could have dogged grooves, but it seems that the tyres are those being worn out faster leaving a rubber coating. But is something good only for step grades.
the case of nancy's rubber-tire tram is different, as the system (bombardier tvr and not translohr) wasn't functionnal at all and the "buses" could switch from diesel to electric. it was advertised as a trolleybus rather than a proper tramway.
I have not ridden on a Lohr system tram, but i did ride on the now closed Bombardier system in Caen. The Caen vehicles were noisy and uncomfortable and damaged the road surface. I certainly think the disadvantages of Lohr outweigh the advantages. Looking at other peoples comments I was particularly struck by that from letraindejardin. 'C'est un truc inventé sur mesure par Lohr pour la ville de Clermont-Ferrand capitale mondiale des pneus Michelin.' ''It is a gimmick invented by Lohr taylor made for the city of Clermont-Ferrand, THE WORLD CAPITAL OF MICHELIN TYRES.' Regarding gradients, the recently modernised metre-guage tramway in Gmunden (Austria) goes up a 10% gradient. And the modern trams have taken over a metre guage branch railway from Gmunden to Vorchdorf (the compatability point). Regarding curves, I have always been amazed by the extremely tight tramway curves in Basel and Berne. But nowadays to see a very tight tramway curve I do not need to go to Switzerland. I just walk about 500 yards from my Nottingham flat to the Lacemarket tram stop.
It's a guided trolleybus, not a tram. And like the failed predecessor systems in Caen and Nancy, this one will last for about 10 years and fail too ..... I used the one in Mestre (Venice) and the comfort was as awful as the road surface. Caen luckily replaced it with a tram. Paris should do that too with its Translohr line.
It is not quite the same technology in theory. In the Translohr technology, the streetcar never leaves its track, except in case of an accident, and the possible length of the vehicles is longer. In Nancy the "tramway" leaves its track several times. It is more a guided trolleybus than a tramway. There is also a double pole system and not a pantograph system.
After having already taken it in Paris, I find it pleasant, it's not as noisy as it seems. And the acceleration is very close to the acceleration of the pneumatic subway.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Tram : uses a guided rail, can only speed up and slow down, doesn't yield to pedestrians on crossings, only uses one overhead wire and uses rail as neutral, uses tram specific signalling, doesn't abide by the traffic rules of buses
This is a tram, it's not the same as the Caen and Nancy trolleys
@@nuabioof83 that's where you failed. This does yield to peds and traffic since it runs in the street. And those terms alone don't define a tram as an Interurban does the same thing and it's bigger than a tram.
I’ve been in the system in Clermont Ferrand and those things shake back and forth like crazy.
Advantage:
- Has the soil occupation of a narrow gauge (1 meter gauge) tram. See Zurich of Bern tramway systems
Arguable advantages:
- Short radius curves (I have seen very tight curves even on Rome standard gauge tram, Line 8. You can hear the wheel flanges squeaking against the rails)
- High grade inclines. Zurich tramway system shows that standard trams can climb step inclines. Maybe for Medellin ones a wheel on steel rail vehicle should need rack and pinion, while rubber tires do not.
Arguable disadvantage:
- the tires, passing always in the same place, wear out grooves: indeed you can clearly see where tires pass and where not, but it is dubious that groves are dug. The tram runs on concrete slab coated in industrial grade n-slip floor coating. Remember, the rubber of the tires wear out first. It is possible that the trace of the wheels comprises some rubber coating.
Other disadvantages:
- The design of the interiors is poor. Having tires of the appropriate size to bear the weight causes loss of space for passengers, even if there are pads over the wheel case in the mid sections to lean on while standing, anyone using it blocks the passage. Seats are placed in such a way you can't provide a large number of seats and you waste space for standing passengers.
- driving wheels embracing the rail may be blocked by small stones and even autumn leaves, this was discovered during the tests in Padua (2005-2009), the first Italian town to install it and possibly among the first ones in the world, works started in 2003, first part completed in 2005, service started in 2007, northern part built and opened to service in 2009.
- the system is possibly even less bicycle friendly than standard trams.
- Incompatible with ancient paving system [see below].
I had a copy of a French railway magazine (before 2005) where they said that the Lohr system was discarded by Paris municipality, that opted for a standard train. It seems that a second attempt from Lohr salesperson succeeded.
The history why Padua choose that suppository on tires is fun, was not it a waste of public money.
In 1995 the then city major, having been Euro-deputy and having visited Bruxelles and Strasbourg, developed a project for a tramway like that in the Alsatian city. The project was founded for what now should be 63.100.000€. The opposition rode the protest due the dislike of overhead wires, interference of works to local business and so their next election campaign was all for NO-TRAM, even with the use of Photoshop rendering we could now call "fake news". They won, but soon discovered that they should have built something that Italian law could accept as a tram, or face the restitution of the money. They looked around for solutions, even a system following a strip painted on the road was proposed, but that was ludicrous (nobody recalls the scenes of Roger Rabbit in Toontown?). The Lohr solution was choose, propagandized as less invasive and cheaper. A public tender was launched for 51 millions €, possibly to show that it was cheaper than the standard tram, and this led, to the design of stops suitable only for the shortest vehicle configuration (three articulated coaches), thus preventing any idea of multi-heading (during the test I saw two units coupled in the initial depot nearby the railway station). History will show that extra 15 million € will be required.
The first problem war that many streets in Padua center are paved either in cobblestones or porphyry cubes. The tram route passes one of the main Padua routes, Via Ponti Romani, a streets built covering a pre-existing channel in the 19th century fifties. This street was one of those paved in porphyry cubes. But the tram runs on a track made of concrete slabs, and that created immediately problems with the pre-existing paving. A solution was attempted with thin porpyry or porphyry like tiles glued to the slabs. When tested, this solution resulted in a failure and, to cut short a long story, now the street is paved in tarmac.
Second problem. The NO-TRAM campaign was also against overhead wires, especially in the larges city yard, Prato della Valle, the fifth larger in Europe. Therefore they asked special battery equipped vehicles to pass the yard without resorting to overhead wires. And indeed today, before a tram passes in the yard, stops for some seconds while the pantograph lowers in the last stop before the yard, crosses the yard itself (one more stop) and then stops again a few seconds to raise the pantograph. But the line south of Prato della Valle is much shorter than the norther one, so a tram has no time to reload the batteries. The first solution to solve this was discarded immediately, because having longer vehicles to carry more batteries was prohibited due the platform length in the stops. The solution used was to build the tram depot near the south terminus and any southbound tram reaching the terminus enters the depot to charge its batteries while another one takes its place.
3:46 that's the best view of this system's inner workings that I have ever seen. I remember seeing some articles about this type of tram when it was new, and it had a few problems (like any new technology), but I think I remember the prototype system in Leon France having steering control so that the operator could take the tram off the route to the storage and maintenance yard.
I thought the system would fail from putting too much stress on the guide rail (like the prototype did on multiple occasions) or having high maintenance costs from using rubber tires and wearing out the guide wheels and rail.
Somehow, like nearly every strange form of transport, it seems to have found a niche. In Medellin. The better grip of rubber tires on [road surface] works for hills and inclement weather.
Other than that, traditional rail trams rule.
why not use trolleybuses? I guess you can make these tram/buses much longer with higher capacity...
Didn't someone's mention that articulated buses with 3 cars wear out quicker and they're replacing them in Switzerland or something?
There is another system in Caen, France, as well. I've ridden on it and it's *definitely* not as a smooth as an actual tram, or even close. It's marginally better than a bus, but not much. I don't see any advantage. Even in places with steep hills, like Lisbon, conventional trams have shown to be quite capable. Seems like a solution in search of a problem.
The system in Caen has now been replaced by a regular tram, if I’m not mistaken.
@@davidsorton2023 exactly. ua-cam.com/video/GTX3_-Wz6Ak/v-deo.html
@@davidsorton2023 Glad to hear it. It was pretty rough.
@@lmlmd2714 The system there was a Bombardier GLT, which was essentially just a bus. A bus with electric motors and a centre wheel. The ones in Nancy had trolley poles, but the Twistos in Caen had pantographs, meaning that when they came off the rails, they lost power. However, the Nancy ones were designed as guided trolleybuses, and could operate off-rails. The ones in Caen were decidedly badly maintained, and the rollways were bouncy.
There is a yt video (not by me) which explains these oddities:
ua-cam.com/video/Kr4EZwZbxwQ/v-deo.html
The system's ability to make tighter turns is particularly advantageous in cities with archaic tight and irregular grids and its ability to climb steep grades trumps all the disadvantages in cities like Medellin. I'd be curious to know how it handles snow . . . not much of a problem in Paris or Venice, but what about Medellin?
There's no problem, in Medellin doesn't snow
even modern trams can make tight turns of 12-15 metres radius, as it is often the case in the old-style networks in Europe (or Toronto/CAN for all it matters). The large manufacturers cater for that market, since it has a pretty big share.
Modern systems are mostly built for wider turns (the Alstom systems in France mostly 50 metres revenue service, 25 metres for non-revenue lines), however it is not an issue to build otherwise...
In Clermont-Ferrand they don’t have much problems with snow. the guide-wheels push the snow out of the gorges by the force of pressure.
Critical points can be heated by electric resistance too…
my friend eric In Medellin, Colombia we do not have climatic seasons, here it is hot, cold or rainy, it is a country where snow does not fall, in fact Medellin has a nickname that they call it the city of Eternal Spring
Snow and ice build up in the guide rail and because there's less weight pushing down into the groove,it doesn't get cleared effectively
It’s insane to create a proprietary technology. They should have installed a quality trolley bus and had twice the frequency of service or a much larger network.
I’m amazed there are two systems but they are incompatible with each other.
The Chinese have built a trackless-tram but it’s battery operated. Like these the vehicles are heavy so the roadway will need just as much concrete as a tram. Nuts!
Good video, nonetheless.
The only issue for me is the amount of space in side the vehicle looks thinner than a normal tram.
Though that may just be my perspective.
I see more disadvantages than pros.
Like?
@@railwaystuff did you watch the video?
Agree to that.
@@railwaystuff the pros and cons were featured in the video
The ride seems to be pretty bumpy and noisy... I'm not sure if I like it.
Aesthetically pleasing. I think the rail guide could also conduct electricity on sections immediately beneath the tram as it passes over that section, potentially elliminating a heavy battery on-board and overhead wireing. Especially in old historic sections of town where overhead wireing would mar the appearance.
You need both a live wire and a neutral wire, here the guide rail already conducts electricity as a neutral wire so you still need the live wire above
Trolleybus is way cheaper.
But less capacity
It would look good in a HO scale model, using a Faller like system.
An underrated comment.
I remember in rural France in the 50s and 60s small single carriage trains that ran on rubber shod wheels. They were very quiet and smooth. Funnily enough the local people called them ‘Michelin’ trains.
First time i saw one of this was in Venice, i didn't even know they existed, my mind was unable to understand how could this work, thanks for explaining it. What i can notice that this thing is really loud.
I like it, but I do not think it would work in severe winter conditions like Canada or Scandinavia.
As a resident, I can confirm that Toronto’s streetcar system works just fine in winter, this system should not be too different
@@jasonpereira4024 yes, IT IS.
@@jasonpereira4024 now it does, but the older cars didn't do so well
It's cheaper to install than classic tram but has higher running costs in total and actually combines disadvantages of both systems. Bus and tram.
The few advantages can be solved for the tram system too.
I once travelled on the rubber-tyred train on the Paris Metro. Advantage there is the steep gradient encountered; easier for a rubber-tyred vehicle. Noticeable sideways jerking though on curves.
If I remember well, the first of its kind has been build in Nancy, France, might wanna check that out.
What's the installation and operational cost comparisons with trolley buses?
I had always been wondering why this type of tram has been chosen for the line 5 between Market of Saint-Denis and Sarcelles, in the north of Paris. I thought that maybe it was because these are amongst the poorer suburbs of Paris, but I understood that may not be the case ? I take this tram from time to time in order to stroll on the hill called 'Butte Pinson', a charming area often represented by impressionist painters, particularly Maurice Utrillo.
There's a rail-guided rubber tire tram in Nancy, France where the rolling stock is registered as road vehicles, not trains. I lived nearby in Metz which has rubber tire trams that are unguided. I will say that it certainly beats the alternative, which in frugal cities is buses. These small cities usually never seriously considered the investment into proper light rail. But the experience is quite a ways off of an actual tram. Especially in europe, where city centres commonly have cobblestone laid throughout the historic cores. Riding through those areas is pretty awful.
In Lyon, though, there are rubber tire trams which are just marketed as bus services. They come nearly as frequently as the regular trams there and are genuinely pretty good as they don't typically go through the areas that have cobblestone. The neighborhoods they serve, though, aren't nearly as nice.
Very well filmed..i still think they look cool but consider a real tram has double metal rails in road.
I'm courious on how these ride at Gradent in the wet, having rubber wheels. Is there any slipage?
These are actually n-articulated buses.
The traction is on the rubber-tyred wheels, not in the rail wheels.
Since the more drawbacks than advantages that had, the only good aplication is in Medellín or another city with steep streets.
Would you then consider rubber tire metros to be buses?
@@fernbedek6302Can Rubber-tyred metro trains ride in streets?
@@stift18The guideways look pretty similar to o-bahn bus guideways, so… presumably? They just couldn’t steer on a normal road, much like these vehicles (some versions might need other modifications, but that’s also akin to these vehicles).
Caen, Normandie had a similar system branded 'Twisto'. They replaced it with a conventional tram system. I guess sometimes there is a case for these things but sometimes I think some cities and transport authorities just want quirky. West Midlands Transport Authority springs to mind with the Parry People Mover in Stourbridge and the planned VLR (Very Light Rail) for Coventry. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_139
Clermont-Ferrand is also where Michelin's Global HQ is located. Not surprising that their tram system is a Translohr!
At least the system works, compared with the TVR of Bombardier which was a failure and is now out of production….
Clermont-Ferrand and Medellin I like 👍
Paris and Mestre I don’t understand why…
In some cases this system can prevent vibrations on houses or institutions too.
When tires are stuck in a fixed position and into a turn, that rubber wears out quick. Almost like doing a burnout
Interesting several type of trams and metros in Paris
I rode a Paris metro (subway) that was unusually smooth and upon exiting noticed its large rubber wheels. The ride was great, but I wondered if maintenance was more expensive? The above idea seems good for the hills, but maybe a waste for flat areas.
@Richard Joniec in fact, easier to stop and go on lines with several nearby stops. However, they HAVE steel wheels behind the rubber tired ones.
In Belgium in 1985, I saw a single track on the road with an overhead wire above it, but never saw the vehicles. Now I know. It's the Translohr system that uses LRVs with rubber tires.
It was a prototype as far as I can remember.
You probably saw the testing track for the TVR from Brugeoise & Nivelles/Bombardier, a now abandoned tyred "tram".
Just a fancy trolleybus. A regular low-floor tram is more effective and more economical in the long run (50+ yrs).
I wonder what would happen if the vehicle gets a punctured tyre. It must be a time-consuming job to replace a wheel. If the puncture renders the vehicle immobile, surely others would bank up behind it for a long time while the wheel is replaced. Perhaps, though, the vehicle can continue back to a depot unloaded with one or two punctured tyres.
It's worth mentioning the tram of Nancy in France. It's also on Rubber tire and is able to take deviation without the center rail if needed.
Vidéo is about the Translohr system only. Nancy "tramway" is the TVR system by Bombardier, a prototype now abandoned, which is worth than the Translohr.
There was another in Caen, that was replaced by a conventional tramway in 2019. Was TVR system with pantographs.
What is when Bicycle crosses the System in a low angle?
Plus I think there is a similar System in which the Trams cann drive also without guidance.
At least I had heard that some of this Systems already had been converted to standart Trams.
Is this air inflated tyre or just complete rubber tyre??
There was no comment on the noise level of the tram trains vs. trams on rails. How do they compare? How about the maintenance of the guide rail vs that of regular street cars?
ระบบขนส่งมวลชน ยอดเยี่ยมมากครับ
There are rubber-tire subway trains in Paris too.
I think they are pretty suitable for south america, places like Medellin/Bogota, and Im gonna add cities like Caracas, La Paz, Rio de Janeiro, Lima etc
They have a history of breaking down a lot.
I saw 20 years ago a rubber-tired metro in Paris. Maybe they still exist. But I didn't know there are also trams with this technology. Pretty interessting. :)
One additional disadvantage of this technology is, that rubber tries generate particulate matter.
Paris Rubber-tired metros still exist, yes. And some other French metros are rubber-tired too (Lille for example).
@@andrefourtier100 Lille is a VAL light metro system. The Paris, Montreal, Mexico and Santiago ones have steel wheels behind the rubber tyred ones.
@@MarceloBenoit-trenes You right 🙂 Steel wheels behind the tyred wheels are used on switches and are "safety wheels" too, in case of tyres issues.
VAL means now "Véhicule Automatique Léger" but at the beginning, it meant "Villeneuve-d'Asq - Lille" after the name of the two cities between which the 1st line was created.
And I believe that you already know all of that... 😀
2:42 Depicts the only good advantage to lohr style rubber tire trams:
They can turn a 90-120 degree corner without needing to slow to a snail's crawl nor create a bunch of screaching for a simple turn.
-Thus. *These trams can be routed in grid-pattern streets, be plotted in routes with numerous turns, & be constructed to run in streets only meant for road cars!*
Technically it`s a long guided trolley bus.
Is it better than busses though?
air cushioned trams? They are like hovercrafts, reducing friction between the rails and the tram which means less drag, less noise and better everything.
Nope
They ride like a stretched out bus.
Bumpy and everything.
@@blue9multimediagroup ok.
I do think some of Canada’s hillier cities could look into it (mainly Quebec City and Hamilton, though maybe Calgary or Vancouver)?
Please no.
I don't think, that the steel saved by using only one rail, does oputway the higher maintenance costs due to the increased ware of rubber tires and the added mechanical complexity due to the guidance wheels.
No lo han mencionado pero le veo mas futuro a esto como reemplazo de los buses en las líneas brt, pero pensándolo bien sale mejor reemplazar la calzada por rieles y pones un tranvia, mas barato el mantenimiento y con muchos proveedores de repuestos, pero si el terreno no permite poner tranvia esto es mejor que un trolebús articulado ya que es mas estable y no va cada 50 metros dando saltos en la parte trasera.
great system you can also drive with troleybus and normal bus on this traject.
It looks cool on hills
I saw something like that also in Nancy, France, so I am wondering, if you forgot to mention this system or is it another type of tram?
Nancy (and Caen) system is worth than Translohr. It's a prototype by Bombardier (now abandoned by B.). The vehicles aren't permanently attached to the guide rail, depends on the sections of the line : on some sections there's no guide (about 1/3 of the unique line). The vehicles are hybrid : they can run with diesel engines like articulated buses where there's no overhead wiring. The city of Caen has just abandoned this system and will replace it by a classical tramway, and has sold its rolling stock to Nancy for spare parts. Nancy begins to think to replace this system either by tram or by classical trolleys. It's a fiasco!
@@andrefourtier100 Hasn't been the system in Nancy substituted by a real tram line?
@@Trento68 Not yet! Maybe one day... It'll be expensive and the present system is very expensive too, it costs far more than it earns. 🙄
@@andrefourtier100 Like most transit systems around the globe! Love them, and love the ones that are different but they never (almost) make any money
@@andrefourtier100 in fact, they destroyed the Nancy trolleybus system!!! However, they look more like a trolleybus there.
Thanks for the great video!
I do not see much space for discussion here though. Is it a tram or not? It is a physically track-guided system with its own characteristics and it would be best to handle it juridically as such (if the "tram or no tram" question is thought to relate to its juridical status).
The Translohr is a nichè product with significant drawbacks compared to a tram, and as such it should only be chosen where its one special ability is needed: the ability to climb steeper grades than a tram while maintaining a tram's narrow and curvy trace. Perfect selection for Medellin, bullshit selection for Paris, and also bullshit selection for Mestre, where the whole network does not make use of the system's benefits except exactly in one short section which is the steep downtown-side ramp down to the tunnel station. As simple as that, IMO.
Conventional trams can climb steep grades too.
I think that's a kind of hybrid between a classic tramway and trolleybus.
India has planned one for "Nasik" city, they call it "metro neo"
They calling it rubber tyre metro, will have trolleybus style power supply but train like design and is going to have dedicated pathway, and even elevated routes like a metro train
Rubber tyred trams sound like a guideway bus without bus lanes or BRT elements.
Would be the ideal upgrade for the overwhelmed Trolleybus line 10 in Mexico city, the current shorth sighted administration build an elevated BRT line instead of a tram or extend the Metro line 8 and as soon as it open the line became simply insuficient to serve the demand, a Translohr system would be a good replacement using the current BRT/metro type stations without adding a lot of weight to the elevated viaduct.
Trollybusses work GREAT on hills ... should be considered more often . Regulator Trams are #1 .
These can go off road, and since they don’t drift and are guided they don’t need as much training.
And trolleybuses don't provide the capacity of this type of public transport. The main problem with buses is that they are limited to about 120-150 passengers. Articulated buses with more than two segments have been tried, but not successfully. This is the moment when rails shine (pun intended): The segments are all force-guided by the rails and allow the train to run corners without issues. Translohr is an attempt to provide the guidance from a rail and thus the capacity of large trams with the versatility of routes like a bus. It might not be a perfect solution though, as it also combines the drawbacks of both as in high car maintenance and high construction cost for the track.
@@QuarioQuario54321 actually no they can't. They're stuck on that guide rail in the center.
@@SiqueScarface there is a thing called a biarticulated bus in countries outside of America.....
@@blue9multimediagroup Yes, but also here, you are limited to about 180 passengers. Vehicle directional stability and turning around corners without forced steering gets more complicated if you have more independent elements, e.g. connected carriages.
What about The other system for rubber tyred tram?? Glt from bombardier i think?
Works in southern locations where snow or ice never blocks the rail.
I don't understand...if they are this much disadvantages then why Padua has decided to build two additional tramway lines using the exact translohr technology?
They can also accelerate and sea celebrate extremely fat as shown in the clip of the tramss arriving and departing the stop with platform doors.
Trams could still have rubber tyres, if the rubber had a high content of carbon or powdered aluminium, or if there were separate power return shoes on the rails. Or for hills a standard tram could use aluminium induction plates instead of having powered wheels.
I think translohrs are really cool but no-one else I know thinks that. The benefit of a translohr most people forget is its grip is so good, it can theoretically drive upside-down. They can climb easily double the incline of your average tram, and accelerate much, much faster. The reasons people hate them are insane energy consumption and the fact rollways must be constructed, or else the road is eaten in about 6 months. Cities with rollways have very good ride, but the lack of suspension in the translohr vehicle means that any bump feels like driving over a fucking canyon. I, however, like translohrs but still, I do admit they are fucked up.
1:30 was that vehicle made by bombardier?
I mean... it could work in hilly cities like Pittsburgh or San Francisco but, otherwise, just buy a double-articulated trolleybus. I think France using it is just a PR gimmick for attention
Hey the Tram runs on a Single Line!...Really Funny!
I believe Montreal and Paris subway trains are really guided buses because they run on rubber tires and the rails only exist to guide them.
It is not always the case. It's true for lines 1, 4, 6 and 14 (I may have forgotten some). But the majority of the lines are on tracks, like trains.
No environmental and city friendly green track possible, high costs for damaged roads and tires.
Those tires also have a high part in particles polluting the sea.
Steel on steel is way more comfortable, as well as much more effective and energy saving.
Tramway can also have underground energy or batteries to get over heritage places or streets.
Is it a solution to squeeky trams?
I like it.
Rubber has a high coefficient of friction ,meaning it reduces energy efficiency ........ But rubber has high elasticity ,making a softer ride........
No, they haven{t a softer ride. Read some of the comments here.
How about Seattle, L.A. and Jersey City?
Basically invented for Clermont-Ferrand so the city could have a 'tram' that used the product turned out by its major industry. Lohr industries eventually got into trouble and Alstom 'bailed' them out by purchasing the Translohr system thus enabling the Paris projects to proceed instead of the city being embarrassed by the chosen vehicle supplier folding mid-project. Alstom have since effectively killed the Translohr off and don't offer it to new customers. I gather from industry reports that Alstom took all the Translor tech people and moved them to electric bus development. It has managed a few more sales than the ill-fated Bombardier Guided Light Transit system, a very similar idea.
I think the biggest disadvantage is that these trains run a groove into the street. Roads are less durable than rails, and so that cost is high. If the city this tram runs on is not steep, then there’s almost no advantage.
Either make it a trolleybus, which is kind of a more beneficial version of this or a real tram
Only the Paris Metro has rubber tyred trains I believe. I love them, but the French have tried rubber tyres on trains in other areas in the past with some success. But the world wasn't interested. Not sure this works on mainly flat areas, but hilly cities would benefit. Interesting. If I ever get back to France I would love however to ride the line.
Paris, Montreal, Mexico and Santiago have rubber tyred trains on heavy metro, BUT they all have steel wheels behind them. And NO, there are no cities that can benefit of this. Conventional trams can climb steep grades. This is a waste of money, a problem looking for a solution.
@@MarceloBenoit-trenes Thanks for that. I reckon though it is a solution looking for a problem. Which as you say, doesn't exist.
I mean rubber tyred trams aren’t bad. They can get up hills.
no they cannot lmao, and trams can do similar slopes nowadays, and there are plenty of other ways to go about it than putting tyres on them.
Rubber tyred trams and metros make it easy to go uphill. Trains and trams on rails require zigzags.
Trams don't don't require zigzags tou go uphill. In Lisbon trams can climb hills with a 13.5% gradient
Rack railway systems are one of the best alternatives for trains to go up slopes or hills, much better than rubber tires I think. Trem do Corcovado in Rio de Janeiro is a great example of how well it works.
Are rack railways similar to funicular and incline railways?
They have this tram system in Medellin Colombia
The main question for me, is a tram a road vehicle guided by rails or simply a rail vehicle that is allowed to run on roads?
Guided by rails
Didn`t even know that something like this exists.
Cuz it’s a gimmick to get more money out of cities and various other contracts.
...and let's keep it that way TBH
And what about the systems like there was in Caen, France ,(now replaced by a traditional tram) and Nancy, France, where they're still thinking about it, despite the trolley-bus-trams there approaching the economic end-of-life.
When I first saw this I thought the power came from the ground like the old streetcars in Washington, DC.
It sorta does as electrical ground !
@@millomweb no it doesn't. Power comes from the wires. Negative current (which isn't power) goes through the central guide rail.
@@blue9multimediagroup Except that there's only one wire, not two. So you appear to disagree with me in your first sentence then agree with me. And, as anyone who understands electricity will tell you, the 'negative' wire actually has the positive flow of electricity since electrons which do flow are negatively charged.
I see many skeptical people in the comments, but at least in Medellín they work well. They have way more capacity than buses, wich Colombia has had a lot of trouble with
They are not buses as they have that rail to guide them where it'll get complicated will be if, assuming it's not another hyped up con(hype-r loop being the biggest!),is the trackless trams that I've read about in China.
Which are also nonsense.
They are just busses which have the look of a tramway, following a line on the street.
Wonder what happens in autumn or winter, when they are covered in leaves or snow.
Good for politicians and the purpose of getting cars out of town on the grounds that the lane will be for cars anyway. I mean wide 3-lane streets and changing one lane to a bus lane (because the tram will also go.)
Maybe instead of calling it a tram, it should be called a guided trolley bus.