Masterclass: Product Market Fit 10X Faster with Amy Jo Kim
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- Today I sat down with Amy Jo Kim, creator of @Game Thinking TV and early designer of world-class products including Rock Band, The Sims, Ultima Online, eBay and Netflix. We talk about her journey into tech, game dev, and how founders have a lot to learn from game thinking.
Along the way, we learn a number of secrets on how to get to product-market fit 10x faster.
00:00 Intro
01:06 Meet Amy Jo Kim
01:47 Engineer, then designer, then the product
02:48 Finding her tribe
04:30 Game Thinking: PMF 10X faster
06:22 Core loops driving retention
08:31 Lessons from Ultima Online
11:48 Test with core super fans first
13:38 Pick your users
15:26 Slack's customer journey
19:04 Storyboarding skips you ahead
23:38 The most important story: Your user's
26:51 Overcoming founder ego
30:15 What founders can learn from game design
32:03 Amy Jo Kim's lessons for those starting out
37:20 Learning more about Game Thinking
5 Game Design Tips from Will Wright, Sims Designer
• 5 game design tips fro...
Still Logged In: What AR & VR can learn from MMOs (Ralph Koster)
• Still Logged In: What ...
Follow and subscribe to Amy Jo Kim
/ gamethinkingtv
/ amyjokim
Buy Amy Jo Kim's book Game Thinking amzn.to/37VA5Uj
I’m Garry Tan, venture capitalist and cofounder at Initialized Capital. We were earliest investors in billion dollar startups like Coinbase and Instacart, and I’m a Forbes Midas List Top 100 venture capitalist in the world. We want these videos to be about helping people build world-class teams and startups that touch a billion people. Our startups have gone on to create more than $40 billion in market value so far, and Initialized has over $770M in assets under management. I’m doing my own one man UA-cam channel with no staff or crew - we're going for raw and unfiltered, not perfect.
For 2020 I’m donating all proceeds from my UA-cam channel (Ads + affiliate links) to Code2040 to fight for racial equality in tech. Join me in donating at code2040.org
Do you like my audio and video setup? My full kit is here: kit.co/garrytan
Follow me on Twitter- @garrytan / garrytan
For startup advice - Follow and DM me on Instagram / garrytan
Please like this video and subscribe to my channel if you want to see more videos like this! - Наука та технологія
Maturity is when you stop with Gary Vee content and begin with Garry Tan content.
Haha #tangang
true. and thats what gary vee wants too, he literally says ' stop watching my shit and go do stuff'
Then comes Garry to help us build!
Btw, thanks for the great content as always Garry
It's funny because it's true!
I had no choice but to like this. So true.
"If you can get market truth, your odds of success go up. The longer you don't listen to it, the more you burn through and circle the drain. It's your lifeblood as an entrepreneur". Priceless!!
So true
She is so articulate! The subtle distinctions she makes are spot on. You can't fake the insight that comes with her decades of experience. Thank you for sharing!
Love this! "Don't try to boil the ocean." Avoid the sunk cost fallacy; use low-fidelity UI at first so you'll get honest feedback about features. "You can use an eraser on the drafting table or a sledgehammer at the construction site." Thanks for making these videos.
Thanks Ryan!
a fucking awesome interview ,like i literally moved my food aside, open up word and started taking notes , now these are some absolute pure gold
Thanks a lot for the heart
"Let's make new mistakes. We've got some lessons from the old mistakes"
Love it! 🙌🏽
Amy Jo is one of the most fascinating people I've ever met! I went through her bootcamp a couple of years ago and it was foundational for my first EduTech product launch.
It reminded me about my childhood that I loved playing video games so much and wanted to create games myself. I wished I could have grown up in a country like United States. I hope my people keep learning English. I’m thankful that I keep improving my English so I can learn much more from the amazing people out there. Thank you for your contribution.
This was some next level product lesson. Never watched anything this good. Thank you for educating us for free!
Garry you're consistent even during the holidays
Love it! 🎉
Thanks for tuning in Haris!
This was a brilliant chat, and an intersection of interests for me :) biggest takeaway personally was the importance of "a paradoxical combination of strong vision and strong ego + a driving hunger for market truth and willingness to iterate vision based on market truth". Thanks for this Premiere, Garry!
Garry and Amy Jo. This is evergreen. Really helpful.
This is a great interview! I love how every idea is tied to a particular game that’s basically a household name. I remember Rock Band well! Perfect intersection of technology, business, and everyday life.
Thanks John!
Great content as always. Amazing how you can listen to this for free and absorb so much value from Gary as well as the interviewees! Thank you Sir 🙏🏻
Glad you enjoyed it!
Gary thank you for doing these interviews. I get a lot out of hearing you discuss cool new topics with people who have experienced much more than I.
I am a early stage startup in the Drone and unmanned space ... and I picked up quite a lot on project management. Thank you
How do you think Drones can help Farmers ( Technically uneducated) ? Can we have something like DaaS ( drones as a service) ?
@@monushetty7015 I get your question ... especially the part of "technically uneducated" I have a lot to say about that ...but I think this is not the right place for it!
Thanks for watching Neville!
WOW Garry, just wow. this was powerful! I ordered the book before getting half way in. I can tell her way of approaching product is just on another level. While I think its important to learn the basics of product management (or even mid/adv) NONE of these gave me a structured approach that fully worked for me.
Her thoughts on Slack following a game design/day X approach blew me away. We have onboarding systems and demos but the idea of a "bot" or fully interactive system to do a demo is so much more meaningful. We have a complex payments platform and people are scared to try it out, even after the onboarding/demos. A bot to facilitate test transactions is GENIUS.
I am a HUGE vision sort of guy that disagrees with unbranded ugly MVPs. You can pivot a product but you cannot pivot your branding or relationships! I think her approach will aid in expanding my toolkit. very excited.
This is awesome
I got more focus, clarity, and ideas from this than everything else like this I listened to in the last week and a half
Holy Mole-y! What a goddess! Amy (and always Garry) are GREAT teachers. I know I say this every time, but 'this was the best'. There are so many nuggets in this episode - there's the Google way and there is the 'in the trenches way' - Amy Jo's notion of using Slack's map to create your brand solves/streamlines so many questions, so much trouble - and to paraphrase, "Save yourself the trouble, SKIP AHEAD!". As the WMMWK (World's Most Mature Wunder Kind), I loved the point about using anything that has interested you, or that you have been involved with, to help you on your next path. For me, Tech and Hollywood reflect/shadow/mimic each other. Running a company in Tech, sounds like doing post production on a weekly television show, executive produced by Steven Spielberg, with notes and hard air dates. Your heart gets tested hourly, but you love it and you wouldn't give it up for the world. It's a creative, heart-breaking and an adventurous narcotic. (But, I digress, almost constantly). When Moola comes my way, my first hire is...
Thanks for watching Walton!
This is gold
Thanks SuperKillaki!
Amazing insights! Please more conversations like this one!
Garry has content that you don’t even know you might want to know about while doing your own start up 👌
This is amazing Garry, loved this session.
Very insightful! Thank you ❤️
Very informative and a great help to assessing my process.
Thank you for the amazing lesson, these were great advices
Thank you for the guest.
Garry you literally practice what you preach. I get surprised when People say they don’t have time. You do so much but still have time to read and react to comments.That says a lot!
Appreciate you Kwaw!
I'm rewatching this video to re-immerse myself about Product-market fit. My company is about to test with our hot core super fans. Thanks Garry, you're my first source to go to and I can't learn enough from you. BTW, I saw you at Valencia Street (Mission District) sitting with your friends and I waved to you, thanks for waving back, as you can see I was starstruck!
Oh haha, that was you. Thanks for waving!
@@GarryTan I had to wave, even though I knew I was intruding on you and your friends (sorry). I’m a huge fan, your vlogs are super informative and inspirational, got me to where I am. I hope I’ll have 10 minutes with you one day to say Thank you and also show you what your inspiration have helped me accomplished. ❤️🙏🏻
It's a beach head not a destination. Pure gold.
I played UO for years. A real eye opener for me, as both a gamer and hopeful designer.
I connect with this so much. I came from design/art and got interested in engineering/coding along the way. When I asked if I can bridge the design/engineering gap by doing a lot of prototyping, testing of ideas, but I got rejected by my superior, and ask if I want to get out of the team as I am not good to the team if I don't focus on design. One of the saddest day of my life, I cried. So angry. Thanks for this!!!
This was a great video to think about what is really utilizing gamification. Too many corporates only scratch the service of claiming to do "gamification" only to mimic the superficial traits of something that stereotypically only looks like a game.
Great points about building a story to build a great product and engage the users or players to grow into it and still have "end-game-content" to keep going.
Incredible value as always, Garry!
Thanks Randon!
Thank's for the inspiration!
Thanks Gary for the content, got a good set of links to follow and read more about!
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you! very helpful content.
Man! It is great content. This is enjoying the silicon vibe valley from far away.
So true Nasir, keep up the incredible work that you're doing!
Top quality content ! Thanks
Need to buy that book.
thanks for the content Garry, it is very useful 💪
My pleasure!
Thank you for another GREAT video 👍
I love your content Gary always looking forward to new content!
More to come!
what a masterclass, thanks garry and amy
Thank you so much Gary! Were you able to find the Ralph Koster talks she mentions at 8:07 btw?
Also, you don't have to worry about my retention cause I'm hooked on these videos.
Thanks once again.
5 Game Design Tips from Will Wright, Sims Designer
ua-cam.com/video/scS3f_YSYO0/v-deo.html
Still Logged In: What AR & VR can learn from MMOs (Ralph Koster)
ua-cam.com/video/kgw8RLHv1j4/v-deo.html
AWESOMELY IMPRESSIVE!!! 🍏🍒🍎
Just leveled up with Gary and Amy
This is so, so good! I’m building a social fitness app, and this gave me great advice.
@It's Phoenix legit scam !
Fitness apps are overrated
Curious - what's the app you're working on?
This should have wayyyy more views
Woah this was incredibly useful
I'm glad!
Thanks Gary for sharing this super helpful video! Finding fans of a startup's idea could be a hassle for some people. How could startups look for their fans? And how can product managers determine that they have interviewed enough people for them to make a conclusion about their product market fit? Thanks!
I learn so much from Garry Tan. Thank you.
Game theory and game design...
Two concepts that are key to making a remarkable product IMO
Awesome vid
nice episode Garry!
Thanks Vincent!
Jumping off clubhouse it’s a nice change to see facial animations and emotion
Clubhouse is so awesome!!!!
Haha yes, clubhouse helped me realize how much I would enjoy doing more interviews and videos.
@@GarryTan totally. I need a balance. Keep up the great content.
Absolute gold
Hi Garry, loved the video! I am interested in what Amy was saying about systems at 36:27. I'm a biomedical engineer developing a mechanical medical device and wanted to know if 'systems thinking' would be applicable to my field?
If so, I would appreciate any tips you have to get my feet wet.
Thanks!
This was great. Very insightful, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
I immediately watched the journey walkthrough after this. And it gave me chills of how much of an impact (market truth) that game had on lots of people. If you’re curious watch it and read the comments on everyone’s “journey”
Thank you for this! #tangang
I love this video. I'm so lucky that I met Garry at my age 29
Thanks for watching!
00:01 Amy Jo Kim's system helps founders and product managers skip ahead to product market fit.
02:10 Amy Jo Kim's experience in building online communities and working with brands in the entertainment industry.
06:25 Having a strong core learning loop and re-engagement experience is crucial for building a successful product.
08:32 Understanding the player experience over time is essential for game design.
12:24 Finding your beachhead before shipping is crucial for faster product-market fit.
14:26 Designing a coherent journey for product engagement.
18:06 Designing a product based on the mental model and actual journey of the customer.
19:55 Low-fidelity testing leads to less attachment to ideas and more accurate feedback
23:30 The power of a product lies in triggering a story in the player's/customer's head.
25:22 Getting brutal feedback and finding the right people to test with is crucial for achieving product market fit.
29:07 Using tools and frameworks for market experimentation leads to faster execution and addiction to market truth
30:47 Building a product requires discipline and the ability to make tough decisions.
34:22 Tech needs to be more inclusive and diverse in order to reach its full potential in society.
36:20 System thinking is crucial for product leaders.
I have a question.
How much Lo-fi testing is enough?
Metrics such as PMF can sometimes be measured in 30D retention or even MRR growth, but before we commit time to create an MVP, do we just decide to talk to say 20 ppl? 100?
This was nothing but 💎💎💎💎💎
Garry Tan has content that is like cut by a katana sword. Super polished and slick and I call it 100x content. Put your mind 100x forward after you watch it and cut down the learning curve(katana).
Amazing
Wow, such a holiday gift to the channel followers.
If @Garry and Amy could follow up another one about figuring out a (hidden) gamification system for marketplace / SaaS product, that would be of a huge help for us - at least for those who are exploring build SaaS enabled Marketplace product.
Anyway, thanks for the great content.
This was a topic Amy alluded around ~23:00, but did not touch super deep into that subject 😀
Hi Garry,
I always enjoy the content you produce , but I want to get to know your personal business experience.
Is there a video out there , tracing back all your business ventures ?
Thanks, I probably should do more about that.
Please share that paper about MMO Lessons, Gary!! I dont see it in the description
5 Game Design Tips from Will Wright, Sims Designer
ua-cam.com/video/scS3f_YSYO0/v-deo.html
Still Logged In: What AR & VR can learn from MMOs (Ralph Koster)
ua-cam.com/video/kgw8RLHv1j4/v-deo.html
@@GarryTan Awesome!! Thank you so much!!!
Hey Garry, just thinking on how it would be to get an offer from giga.old companies like Amtrack to renew the customer experience in a gamefaction way, to make Your next train ride enjoyable. Is it even possible for Amtrack like companies to absorb this and change?
Marketing facinates me a lot like human psychology getting in their subconscious generating brand recall just so much to learn and experiment with wish I could study business in Harvard business school
Marketing is super important.
Throw back to Meridian59 - just an amazing interview
hi Garry, thanks for the video but you haven't posted the links you said you'll share with us. The ones Amy talked about
5 Game Design Tips from Will Wright, Sims Designer
ua-cam.com/video/scS3f_YSYO0/v-deo.html
Still Logged In: What AR & VR can learn from MMOs (Ralph Koster)
ua-cam.com/video/kgw8RLHv1j4/v-deo.html
@@GarryTan thanks
It feels criminal to have access to this for free! Thank you Gary and Amy.
Hi Garry, thank you for bringing great valuable content here on UA-cam. I hope you don't mind if I ask you a question here regarding a career in venture capital, LinkedIn won't let me send a message. I'm curious what technical skills should a non-technical person learn or acquire to start a career in the venture capital space? I've learned coding and analytics so far. What else can you recommend?
blog.garrytan.com/six-skills-for-startup-success-what-founders-can-do-to-improve-their-chances-before-they-take-the-plunge
Thanks for watching!
My theory is the skills are the same for early stage as for founders because founders want help building the biz and choose people who can do that to take money from. And those are the people you want to back.
Late stage is totally different: more financial and diligence and hustle/sourcing oriented.
Thanks for replying! Looking forward to more of your videos.
Waiting to be aired..
Thanks for tuning in!
Some of the ideas in the book are inspired by Nir Eyal 2013 hooked book.
I will like this channel translate in Spanish 🥺
What is D20, D90 ?
How do I reach out to @garryTan with my startup idea
Whats D90 D30 D20 D1 D7 mean??? 7:20
I fell asleep waiting 😅
Wow... I love her... Let's make new mistakes
Yep, I’m always ready to be schooled🤓
Thanks for watching!
re-engagement, retention, D7, D90, core loops , MMO's, ... a lot of terms that are not explained.
your good spreads faster than taliban, love you
The creators of cyberpunk 2077 should watch this video 😁✌️
😪Both Garry and Amy have a lisp and it's super cute to me
You are a partner of YC. Why don't you run
Y Combinator youtube channel? :)
I haven’t worked there for more than 5 years
The “market truth” is my mother now...
Garry you should start a band and call it Fringe haha
Gary Vee had a proven concept, Gary Tan found product market fit
Could u explain D20, d30. Thanks. U lost us there.
Oh sorry. Day 7 and Day 30 retention, based on cohort - it's the gold standard of how to measure whether your app or service is good and working for your customers. More benchmarks here: www.lennyrachitsky.com/p/what-is-good-retention-issue-29
1-based on my notes, I understood that Day xx retention is an indicator of PMF, Product Market Fit, for long term retention. Is this correct?
2-why the huge Delta or spread with your indicators? You said , I think, that u focus on D1, D7 while she is at D30, D90. We thank u in advance for your feedback.
As a maker D1 to D14 allows you to iterate fast. As an investor I look at D30 and D90 to figure out if I should invest. So both matter but you probably need to focus more on shorter measures so you can improve faster.
"Far fetched ideas"
Haha i'm 22