Horizon IT inquiry: Alan Bates says 'atrocious' Post Office is 'beyond saving' | ITV News
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- Опубліковано 8 кві 2024
- Prominent campaigner and former sub-postmaster Alan Bates has called the Post Office an "atrocious organisation" that's "beyond saving" and will be the "bugbear" of government for years to come, in his evidence to the Horizon IT inquiry.
Speaking from the witness box, Mr Bates accused the organisation of attempting to "discredit and silence" him for more than two decades and “definitely trying to outspend us” as part of its “aggressive” tactics at the High Court.
ITV News' UK Editor Paul Brand reports.
Read the full report on the ITV News website here: www.itv.com/news/2024-04-09/a...
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Post Office ltd was able to be Judge, Jury and Executioner. Paula Vennells and all of the senior Executives, Post Office, Fujitsu and Ministers in the know HAVE TO GO TO PRISON for the damage done to innocent peoples lives and the lives that are sadly lost. How does Paula Vennells sleep at night!
This is a perfect example that "POWER CORRUPTS AND ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY"
We heard from Jason Beer yesterday afternoon that they have covert recordings, including one between Vennels aide and the Post Office Legal Services creating only partial disclosure to her, allowing plausible deniability. That does not mean she is not functionally responsible, as similar cut-outs exist in Law in the Primary Justice System: the most notable is the CPS, both reporting to Government. The decisions to prosecute went to Court, invoking a preliminary stage sought in the Judicial System of amicable resolution through mediation and arbitration. We saw this in Alan Bates' own case, initially, but then it blew apart when amicable became intimidatory after he discovered a sense of wider injustice.
she sleeps at night as a priviliged member of the establishment.
Mr Bates - a Great British Character, a national hero, a superstar, a good man. Thank you.
Those Post Office bosses who used British Courts as a weapon against people they KNEW were innocent should see severe jail time. It's so simple!
hope we see prison time...but having seen the inquiry I think many should see prison time
We've had weeks and weeks (actually years) of accusations against PO bosses. Every day we get people talking about prison for these people. But no journalists ever go and ask the police why they're doing nothing. So I'm asking - where the hell are the police?
😅
Ask where was the government and you'll get the answer where were the police
The police are clearly protecting the fatcats. We should not be surprised really. Its the norm.
The police work for the government. They have no interest in helping the public with anything. They are a bad organisation themselves similar to the post office and government.
Fairly easy to google and find out the Met Police have been formally investigating Fujitsu since November 2020 (for perjury and perverting the course of justice) and Post Office high-ups, investigators and lawyers since February 2023 (fraud, perjury, perverting the course of justice and misconduct in public office). I imagine that one problem is that, as the inquiry has gone on, more evidence and more potential suspects/offences have come to light.
Post Office goes out of it's way to be hateful.
And Fujitsu acted corruptly in pursuit of profit. The PO and Fujitsu and the Tory Government
I don’t understand why protecting faulty software was worth sending innocent people to jail.
Those responsible should spend at least 20 years behind bars.
ITV should do a 2nd series of Mr Bates vs the Post Office.
Just boycott the post office products (banking/travel insurance etc). Simple. They don't deserve our trust, not after all this.
My thoughts exactly and is what I’m doing.
I have swooped a regular delivery to DPD and put all my junk mail back in the post box amongst any other thing I can think of.
@@albybloke2289What you’re actually doing there is boycotting Royal Mail, not the Post Office. They are different things. And boycotting local post offices will just hurt more innocent post masters who are trying to make a living - it won’t do anything to the corporate entity.
But boycotts don't work apparently
Please dont boycott post offices. A lot of good people work tirelessly in the post office
The Post Office charges far too much for a stamp. They should be in prison just for that
I think you'll find it's the Royal Mail that sets the price of stamps. Outlets such as post offices and supermarkets then sell them at that price.
@@robertfitzjohn4755 "The Post Office, which has about 11,500 branches across the UK, was formerly part of Royal Mail, but was split off in 2012 when the mail service was privatised." Does that price include a profit?
The relationship would seem interesting. Even more interesting is the inheritance of legal powers.
@robertfitzjohn4755 The post office and royal mail is PRECISELY THE SAME THING. DUH 🙄
@@guff9567 When someone offers a correction, perhaps you should do a simple Google search to check the facts before doubling down on your mistake?
From the Government's own website: "Royal Mail and the Post Office are separate companies with independent Boards.
Royal Mail is the company that delivers parcels and letters - the provider of the universal postal service. The Post Office is the nationwide network of branches offering a range of postal, Government and financial services."
This is what happens when government creates a monopolistic institution, and absolves itself from management or accountability despite being the sole shareholder. I agree with Alan Bates. It is time that THIS GPO organisation is dissolved and replaced with something accountable, functional and economically viable.
No this is what happens when politics makes cosy corrupt deals with private enterprise for the sake of lucrative contracts in return for big donations to the party coffers
The problem is who do you trust to uphold the law since it would appear all those connected to this case are GUILTY and untrustworthy, there is a law about being guilty by association and it should be applied in this case to EVERYONE involved who colluded to convict anyone innocent !!! Sadly no one will be convicted since this is standard practice for the system, cover up the evidence that could clear anyone innocent !!
I hope you are wrong and that all the money "scammed" out of these post masters is paid back to them and with compensation - for some it will never be enough... sadly
Face it these so called senior management were not competent in their office and their actions criminal. Factory managers have accountants and other business managers who design systems to cross check each others measure of the business like waste, false reporting. output ,service, labour and material variances etc. Where was all the systems in the Post Office to give them warnings something wasn't correct. Why suddenly did they have a crime wave from uncoordinated sub post office managers nationwide? It stinks and the civil service & government officials are looking for a way off the hook and not justice in my opinion.
What makes you think that this wasn't deliberate?
Should be Sir Alan Bates now
Give Alan the CBE vennels gave back as well as his own award.
Bates is fantastic!
cant wait for may 9th when andy parsons the post office lawyer who called him a liar is to appear....hope its jason beer grilling him
In the Sixties and Seventies, the Royal Mail/GPO, was trustworthy. That has dissipated.
More respect
Respect
That man is a living legend
It would have been so easy for him to just ignore it and go with the flow. Bravo for having the integrity to stand up for the truth!
I wonder where to next for Vennells, if not prison. Unfortunately, these types have a habit of laying, low without punishment, then reappearing in plumb jobs.
She will get off scot free.
@@smudger671 A woman of the corrupt church too. I'm sure God will want a few words with her when she croaks it.
@@smudger671 hope you are wrong but suspect you will be proved right
@@paulrichards6894 And keep her fat pension and bonuses, and the government still has contracts with Horizon who will no doubt get off scot free as well.
Outrageous and egregious 😢
Well done!!
I dont think saying the Post Office should be handed to Amazon is helpful to anyone.
Why not? It's his opinion and based on the treatment he's received from the PO surely he's entitled to say what he feels. For the record, I found it very helpful. Watching and listening to Alan is great compared to the 'cloak and dagger' ways of the PO and all its rich bosses. Again, for the record, I don't think your comment on YT was helpful at all - and unlike you I only speak for myself because I don't claim to know what other people think. So I look forward to receiving your answer to my question.
@22Phantasm because Amazon are known for caring about their staff or anyone?
@@22Phantasm Also, it has nothing to do with him and the absolute awful way they've been treated, but suggesting Amazon as an alternative is ignorant to the way their staff is treated.
What an awesome person Allan Bates is , and totally unassuming. All the very best wishes from New Zealand
WHAT A STAR!!! And what stamina, to keep going at it, for decades!! HE should run the P. Office!!
Mr. Bates deserves more than full compensation for his damages. The PO should be made to pay punitive damages as well.
P.vennells needs to be investigated, BUT not under the old pals act! But don't hold your breath.
It's not so much an I.T. scandal as a Post Office governance scandal.
The authority’s will fail us as always 10/10. He will have to do it himself. Very wrong.
Workers never get true justice & never will.
Great for him to say “If Authorities Fail Again” as they have & the public now need to see these Post Office Scoundrels brought to Justice & convicted so they can see the inside of a jail cell for along time!
Who knew this is really a modern class struggle, between the haves and have-nots.
Since we now know some of the monies stolen from the Sub-Postmasters through the errors created by the software were later assigned as profits to the company, and that some of those involved received bonus and performance payments. Those involved in particular all senior executives should have their personal finances investigated, to see if their motive was personal gain. In particular any trust funds for which they or their families are beneficiaries, especially where they are held in offshore accounts should be audited.
I wish Alan Bates all the best!
This man should be given a M.B.E for telling the truth a rare thing nowadays
Alan Bates is simply a hero.
But I don't think I would trust anyone now to rebuild the Post Office and not make an even worse organization.
Needs to have a ‘go fund’ me page for these potential civil cases
Post office .. old de
.
Its all very well to say that the group will take out private prosecutions if the authority’s do not, the trouble is the CPS can take over private prosecutions, water them down to next to nothing or drop them all together.
It will be very interesting to see what happens.
Not that ITV, the director, script writers, actors etc. owe any money to the victims. Each victim should be reimbursed every penny taken from them all because of Fujitsu & the Post Office, but it’s still taking too long. The victims suffered additional losses that will likely never be repaid through their lawsuits and the recently proposed legislation. I’d like to see ITV give up some of the profits from the series to those who lost more than they’re ever going to collect. I am Canadian I have watched the first two episodes with others scheduled over the next two weeks. ITV have obviously sold this series, I think world wide, as I have read comments from Americans, Ausies, Europeans, New Zealanders as well as Britains. It’s great the series has had such a positive impact however making a huge profit off of the pain of the sub postmasters and their families feels kinda wrong as well.
The PO were so concerned about the brand image and its contract signings. That statement will wipe out £millions in shares and put off investors.,,,,,,,,,,, Why was fujitsu altering another company's records?
Omg…Nick Read…he’s just another Tory clone……he looks sounds and behaves just like any Tory minister….and as usual , giving nothing away.
Bates needs a gofund me page to prosecute them any lawyer that takes the money is dispicable this is England
I mean everyone uses a post office but as an organisation it is simply out of date and unfit for purpose, amazon could replace it overnight
Gv ment post office ... Umm just like life they do what they do . Best luck our country...
You're forgetting Fujitsu's role, a private company, in this matter. I wonder how much money did Fujitsu donate to the Tories?
"Sir Alan Bates".
Come on Blighty, it's men like him that deserve a knighthood.
Its too easy to keep going on about The Post Office this or the Post Office that when in fact it is a Government department that runs along government lines. Yes Venalls etc are the public face of the Post Office but any actions they put in place where as a result of Government expectations.
As a Post Office employee at the time we were all excited by the new computerr system being introduced. It was supposed to be a joint venture with the DSS, however at the last minute they withdrew leaving post office ltd with the full bill for Fujitsu to develop and introduce yhe system. What did the DSS know? Did the government know it was open to manipulation and that is why the DSS withdrew? We will never know, but calling for the Post Office to be disbanded is not addressing the root cause of the whole scandal.
At a time when government had decreed there were far too many post offices and began culling the Crown network it begs the question is this how the Government sought to reduce the Sub Post Office network?
How can they even stand themselves!! .. AB struggled with accounting??? LOL. Then how do you explain his intensely thorough record keeping?? ..omg..Thank golly he was more capable than the PO !!!
The cell doors are opening hopefully it'll take 25 to 30 years for those that are convicted for someone to find the keys to let them out that's if they're still alive as what they've done to the Post Office staff involved in this trend case
Mr Bates is simply the best
Happy to contribute to crowdfunding to bring private prosecutions, if this inquiry is just going to be for show.
Paula for prison forever 😊
where did the money go?
Will we see the journalists from Computing Weekly and Private Eye being called? Their could turn up with decades of back issues for starters.
if you go on the website you can see who is being called but from memory, I don't think I saw either of those 2 but they should
Can we expect a China or US acquisition of this for a few cents or a
BP like incident and it mysteriously changed hands. Cough cough.
Also interesting that if for instance some ordinary person gets caught speeding, the law deals with that with no problems at all. Where are the police at present? Nowhere to be seen. Not even a comment. I think we can see where this is going - another Grenfell, drag the enquiry out as long as possible, then forget once the furore has died down. You might accuse me of being cynical, but my response would be that I am an evidence based pragmatist.
Disgraceful.
When the great train robber stole Millions from the post office, they all got 30 years. The people working at the top of the post office take millions in wages other innocent people went into jail through their lies,I wonder if they’ll get 30 years.
having watched most of the inquiry there are so many who were criminally involved in this they would need to build a new prison as there are so many
@@paulrichards6894 I suppose it was easier to bring the train robbers to prison. There was only nine of them.
Vennells, the devil has two faces.
Alan Bates is the one worthy of a CBE……!
Went to my local post office to print some bank statements on the machine it said 15p a print so I printed 15 sheets. Was served by the post mistress told me to tap my card to pay later found out she had charged me £9. Thieving cow.
Not all sub postmasters are Mr Bates. They weren't then and they're not now.
The Crown betrayed the people…👎
Your going to need me and millions of other tax payers to help prop up this "atrocious organisation".
I consider Mr Bates very long sighted.
The post office is haemorrhaging tax monies at an alarming rate.
am I the only person who thinks Nick Read looks like Michael Gove`s brother!!! This whole travesty is beyond believe !!!
Nick reed I found a new puppet to put on the front line
This just goes to show, just having more women in leadership positions does nothing!
It’s is a dead parrot 🦜
The Post Office will use tax payers money to ensure this expensive enquiry runs and runs and runs. And the Govt and the new Labour Govt will help them.
The new Labour Government will have no reason to cover up for the misdeeds of the Tories and the PO has no power over this inquiry, when it hands down its findings they will be devastating to all the PO, Fujitsu and the Government wait and see
@@cristosl The misdeeds have their genesis in Blair and his Labour government. This is the start of the evil.
@@rogerroger5255 True and I'm not going to defend Blair or even Gordon Brown. But what Labour cabinet minister back then sits on the opposition front bench or even still sits in parliament? But there are connections to the current cabinet of ministers and todays Tory parliamentary party. Also I don't see much enthusiasm for defending Blair in today's Labour Party. I would be happy if you could point out where I ere on this, as I am following this from Australia
Post Office and Royal Mail are now moribund organisations .
Correct!! The dying throws!
And do you think if they handed it all over to say Amazon it would all be squeaky clean. If the solution is to privatise the postal service then why not also nationalise Fujitsu
@@cristosl It was ICL .. a nationalised and corrupt organisation. Most public bodies are.
Tory/MAGA Propaganda
Finally itv mention crozier!!!
It took 75 minutes for the post office enquiry line to pick up my call yesterday. I dialled at 0800, the second they opened. My parcel, delayed by 12 days, allegedly a 48 hour delivery, has disappeared in the sorting centre. Despite it being tracked. Despite the labelling being clear, with a return address if needed. Expensive sunglasses. No doubt stolen. “We deal with thousands of parcels a day, we can’t guarantee them all” said the simpering idiot on the phone.
I agree, disband it. It’s beyond useless. My posty apologises every time he drops off the ever increasing pile of junk mail. That I’ve signed online to not get… they are a dinosaur of a national diagrace. .