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Who actually wants these Jordan 86 Fleer Rookie Cards? 🚨
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- Опубліковано 12 лип 2024
- Who actually wants these Jordan 86 Fleer Rookie Cards? 🚨
#tradingcards #SportsCards #cardcollecting
Today we discuss who actually wants to pay a premium for these signed Michael Jordan 1986 Fleer Rookie cards?
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Really curious who had access to both MJ and PSA to get this done.
The cards themselves are already very suspect. A couple of those have consecutive psa 10 certs, with pwcc/probstein origin. Yikes. That combination is a giant red flag.
Probstein
Typical special privileges for the good ole boy network
@@DanTheCardMan2 ouch. if it is probstein, the fact theyre trying to hide it makes it look even worse
@@ancientredwoods8502 PWCC is even/was the worst followed closely by the prober
Jordan lost a bet in a poker game
the amount of money that this dude paid PSA to be involved and do this, had to be INSANE. psa should be much clearer about that “relationship”/service that they provide. so they probably guaranteed him a 50-60%gem rate
Completely agree
Buy a beckett monthly
@@liverust5 ….? spit it out junior!
Terrible ink choice and some of those cards show flaws. Owner knows someone at PSA.
16M per card? That offer is bull.
Especially when you factor in MJ is still alive lol
@@DanTheCardMan2 just more hobby bullshit. Insiders getting richer
This is a altered card and should not be a PSA 10. Cards with writing or pencil or pen marks take a significant hit to the grade of the card.
Of course, anyone can answer this opinion. I myself believe (and of course I am open to having my point of view augmented) that adding anything to the surface of the card other than maybe a lint free cloth is card alteration. An on card sticker is a "device" that was applied to the card by the card manufacturer, this is ok because it was "done in accordance with manufacturing planning." Adding a post-manufactured on card signature, no matter how smoothly, I believe has compromised the surface of the card.
Surface "problems" that occur during manufacturing compromises surface grading, SO A POST-MANUFACTURED ON CARD SIGNATURE MUST NEGATIVELY AFFECT A CARDS SURFACE GRADE.
Please provide your point of view on the opinion above.
Thank you.
A millionaire my friend, and one who wants to be DAMN sure these are stated authentic and genuine. He might actually be the only person who can say he owns such items. Whether or not they’re worth what he invested wasn’t the point. He knows they are and are authenticated as such. Who else can say that
I absolutely don’t have the funds to throw 200k or more at a card, but…. Hell yes I’d love to have one of those!! lol 😂
You and me both! Haha
I collect MJ (inserts mostly) and have not yet acquired an auto. It’s high on my wish list. My preference is playing days, on card factory autos. But I’m going to say I’ll make an exception if Michael Jordan wants to stop by my house, hang out and sign some cards! These are amazing, earth shattering, dream come true sports cards. The story and provenance behind them only makes them more valuable in my eyes.
Very fair mate, would you pay that much of a premium for one? I.e. 80x more like this guy wants?
I've personally never liked rookie cards that were signed but I'm a 43 year old that's been collecting nonstop since 86 so the hobby doesn't care about me anymore.
I care about you brother. I'm the same age as you.
It's as if I'm talking to myself, I'm 45 lol
@@jimbo1028 yes sir I know what you mean.
The hobby we see online ain’t the real hobby, most collectors feel the same as you
What do you mean 'the hobby doesn't care'? If the hobby was only made up of one demographic it would've died out 100 years ago. The beauty is that this is for everyone.
My question is: HOW DOES UPPER DECK VIEW THIS SITUATION?
I thought that Upper Deck has an exclusive contract with Michael Jordan, doesn't that meant that MICHAEL IS ONLY SUPPOSED TO SIGN "CERTAIN ITEMS" with Upper Deck's knowledge?
Good point, maybe they got paid too
@@DanTheCardMan2 thats what i thought. this whole thing reeks of good ol boy network. and to now have the only 6 10/10s in existence, the rich get richer
@@JeezyKeen Correct.
I think a lot of refractors, parallels, chrome cards etc, even auto cards are over rated. I think the simple base cards in psa 10 condition should be what is in demand.
Back in the day, autograph cards were actually discouraged, especially the rookie card.
They still sort of are tbh. Nat Turner is infamous for saying that to people on Twitter haha
Yeah, everyone autographed photos. Now you can't hardly find an unsigned photo. Cards are going to end up the same way. It's going to end up much rarer to find an unsigned item than a signed item.
@@vintagecollector5340 we saw the same thing with Stan Lee autographs on key comics. Flooded the market
@@DanTheCardMan2 It's why I don't collect autos. Theres just too many out there. I prefer an unsigned rare photo, but I do own a Griffey and Pete Rose signed photo. I own them for the photos, though, and not for the autos.
Contrived 10/10s. Only a connected person could get PSA to do this for them. Signing habits can change. Bill Russell didn't sign much at all until the 1990's then he started signing more regularly for a couple decades. Jordan could do the same and maybe PSA will give this sweetheart autograph arrangement to others with PSA 10 RCs.
I would prefer a non auto version. Maybe just me though.
People pay a premium for modern rookie cards with sticker autographs on them, and most of them are worthless in a year. For much less than a box of cards these days you can buy many signed hall of fame rookie cards.
I agree but 16m for a card that’s normally 300k?
@@DanTheCardMan2even 300k is insane
I'd just rather an on card auto than a sticker auto lol
One thing to keep in mind is that it’s not as simple as choosing the color of the pen. I collect lots and lots of in person autographs whether that be at shows or actual sporting events.
The older more vintage cards you will see permanent markers or sharpies used more often as they transfer better onto the card. In my opinion Steadler is superior to actual sharpie brands and is the brand of choice used by card manufacturers on their current autos.
These older style cards don’t take as well with paint based pens like newer style chrome cards do. I tested quite a few colors/brands etc when preparing for a Kareem Abdul Jabbar auto session. The metallic paint pop more but are very very streaky and don’t dry as a solid consistent line. Therefore it wouldn’t never 10/10 the card auto grade. That’s why they used blue sharpie. Even though it looks worse.
As far as the want or desire for autographed cards. To me the value comes from me handing my card to the athlete to sign it and inscribe it with something unique. But I personally wouldn’t purchase it at a premium if I wasn’t the one to acquire it.
But think this talks to autos as a whole even larger. Compare the going rate for a below average nba rookie patch auto on a product like flawless or NT. People are paying 1,000’s of dollars for nothing more than role players and you can go out and buy Magic Johnson and Larry Bird on card autos for a couple hundred dollars. The current card market has flooded with sooo many autos that people will be in for a rude awakening.
Autograph pricing should follow the rarity of the autograph. Jordan only exclusively signs with UD. Therefore there’s a demand there. Same with Lebron but with the rumor of Lebron maybe signing with fanatics that’s going to drastically affect the price of all his autos. Whether they are from a product or from in person meetings.
In the past year I’ve had Jerry West sign and inscribe The Logo, Jerome Bettis sign and inscribe The Bus, Tony Dorsett sign and inscribe Americas Team, Randy White sign and inscribe Manster, and LT sign and inscribe LT was a bad mother fucker. I love these cards with my whole heart and they will never leave my possession so in a sense the value to me is irrelevant.
I am meeting Mark Hammil next month and purchased a PSA 8 copy of his 1977 topps rookie that I plan to crack and have him sign and then regrade/slab it for my personal collection. I’ve never seen a copy that highly graded signed or sell so I wouldn’t even know the value.
I also think the asking price is nuts but understand the history behind his signing and the rarity of this.
Part of the reason the 1952 Mickey Mantle PSA 10 is so valuable is because of its rarity not just because of the age of the card but also the short print run due to that shipping incident.
So if you only have 6 total PSA 10/10 cards in existence I can totally see the value jumping and getting absolutely crazy on the day Jordan passes if his current signing restrictions stay in place.
Sometimes it’s hard for us normal folks to understand the funds of the super rich. If you’re a multi billionaire at a certain point money doesnt really even matter. Thats how you end up with someone like Elon Musk tossing 45 million dollars a month to a political super pac. Some people just apparently have fuck you money 😂
Well guess that will make two of us getting that card signed in Chicago next month. Cracked mine open at a PSA 9 and looking to get regraded and signed. Not sure what I’ll do with it from there since I have two other things I’m getting signed by him.
I understand that pen choice is a difficult one but they practiced with these and they don’t look good at all. They should have used a paint pen tbh
@@DanTheCardMan2 agree. I personally would like the one that pops a little more with a poorer transfer over the blue on these cards. Just pointing out why I believe they choose the blue as someone who thoroughly tested out different types and brands on the lower end 86 Fleer base cards and stickers. It’s not the best set to get signed at all.
Not a fan of buying in person signatures from people.
Its either the authentic card from the set or an in person Signature i have gotten myself. nothing more for me.
100% but even then you have to scrutinize manufacturers not messing with autos see panini see dak prescott autopen
Jordan can’t just go out and sign things. When he die. These will be the most valuable cards ever
He has a long way to go between now and then (fingers crossed) so who knows how many more he signs.
These cards are rare because Michael Jordan doesn’t sign fleer rookies anymore because of his agreement with upper deck
I’ve been buying Brady rookies, hopefully long term they keep climbing,
I’ll take one but I’d have to trade frisbees, bongs and old skateboard decks.
In reality it’s my dream card and I’d love to have a signed one.
Not the bong cobber. Genuine collectors item - especially as one gets older and reminisces about the old days.
All I need is a Pete Maravich rc, 1st Dr. J. rc (I have the A/S rookie card), the '80 Bird/Magic rc & the Jordan DC to complete 18 years of complete sets. Even have a bunch of Star sets & Food sets. What I gotta complete besides the obvious rookie cards mentioned above are all the inserts related to each years set. I have most but still looking. A whole lotta fun and eating beans & rice😂😂😂
Haha, beans on toast is a staple for aspiring card collectors 😂
Lol
They’re 10/10. These are legit. You can’t just go get one of these haha.. people are insane. The seller should be asking more than 2x what he’s asking now, or wait 15-20 years and ask for 10x more than asking now
He’s already asking 80x more 😂
Wait until the auto fade, would it still be a 10? Some are sign with a pen which shows a little indention which should decrease the value, not increase it.
Random comment but I would rather have a licensed Jordan auto than just his plain rookie card. I think long term, autos are going to hold their value in this massive junk wax era that we are in.
I'm not a fan of autographs on "grail" cards, especially if the card grades PSA 10. But I can't buy the argument that "we shouldn't pay a premium" for the auto, which seems to imply the auto is worthless.
I think my point was lost on many. Premium is one thing but this one is 80x
@@DanTheCardMan2 Yeah, maybe you should have said "we shouldn't pay a ridiculous premium" or something.
I think the autos look terrible for being a preplanned event years in the making also how did all of these cards grade a 10 again? knowing how hard it is to get a ten. You think a normal person could crack 6 PSA 10s and get them all to grade a ten again?!! I don’t think so.
As a rule of thumb don't ever get rookie cards autographed, but this is MJ
The cards I have had signed in person are special to me and won’t ever go to PSA, they are part of my collection. I wouldn’t pay the premium for these even if i had the money to throw around. With that being said, I can absolutely see someone paying the premium for these just because of the egos in the hobby. I could see a Logan Paul or another influencer coming in a scooping one up for clout. Thanks for the video!
Another good video! Keep'em coming!!! Jordan usually only signes in black. It might have shown up just as good😂
Taking money out of it I would much prefer a sharp looking Jordan licensed auto from any year over these. I don't mind IP autos generally but these look very average. Funny how they all got 10/10.
I can see why people would want one but the guys asking for an 80x premium per card.
PSA 10/10 signed rookie cards are a niche segment of the hobby. You have to understand the history of MJ autographs. He has only signed through Upper Deck until these showed up.He just doesn't do private signings. I would imagine either a close MJ business partner or someone in his family arranged this signing. You are making it sound too easy. The man doesn't need the money, he's a billionaire.
No I totally get that. My point was should they command an 80x premium like many are making out it should.
What are the chances that if the seller sent in all of those cards unsigned, with no hype, that PSA would of gave them all 10s?🤔 Most of us would have received 5 9s and 1 10 at best🤨
Some were already PSA 10s but yes I agree with you!
These kind of autos of players that have pack pulled autographs will always be less desired. An exquisite auto or patch auto is and will always be more desirable.
This is what I have been saying. We can always create rarer cards, as long as the market wants it. For this case, many have said the autos are ugly, but it is NOT the point. The point is,
"For relics and autos, it is just that easy to reshape the market."
So when you are holding a piece of, let's say the rarest relics card of a certain player for now, I do not mean to challeng but let's use the 1 of 1 you recently get. Imagine they do a card of his Jersey (assuming he won a Champion league with the team) Champion league final.
This is why when we think about modern cards, especially the Panini Era. They are already overprinted. People have been saying no RPA for Wemby so the Prizm is the rarest. I mean, can Fanatics make a PA from Wemby's first match with spurs? Is that a RPA? I mean as long as the market goes with that, then it is that. (Just like you shared awhile back, the influencers have been double standard regarding unlicensed cards from topps)
Exactly right!
Pop on cards like this can change overnight which is why the 100m valuation is absurd
I have shared on IG. Whether it worths 100m, time will tell. I mean the one holding the card might feel very secure of owning the rarest auto card of MJ.
But what if someone with the link find a PMG green, EC now and a 1/1 98 PMG (all these are 7 figures by default) and let MJ sign. Immediately, his card would be downgraded.
This is what I always want to tell people. The line between the rarest card of a player is on thin ice. And we are not at an era that an aggressive new sheriff is in town. As long as he sees fit he won’t care you upper deck or panini era masterpieces. And unlike this time, the mass will go with the new sheriff
Good video, agree there sweet cards but mj still alive can sign more. If I had 500 mil I would buy one for 500-800k
So he got 10 cards signed and 6 got 10s. I wonder if he hadn't flown a PSA employee down to witness would they have all just got PSA 6/7/8s...
Just like when psa would send graders to the homes of their most well known customers, no bias on those grade
If those were 89 Griffey UDs, you can guarantee only 1 could be graded a 10.
Zack Hample has a great collection
I agree with the video maker totally--good advice
It completely depends on the athlete. Not only is Jordan the GOAT, but he hasn't signed anything in actual product releases in a long time, he's notorious for not signing much stuff at all, and he's got enough money coming in from other areas where he has zero reason to just start pumping these out as some type of cash grab. The people saying there shouldn't be a premium on autographed MJ rookie cards are acting like this is some random player that actually would needs the money and would have reason to start cranking these out. This isn't Ken Griffey fucking Jr that's been signing thousands of items every single year since he retired and can be found at like every single large sports card convention.
There is no world where there shouldn't be a massive premium for an autographed Jordan rookie card that's been authenticated and graded a 10. I don't even understand how somebody could feel differently.
Keep in mind the main reason for feeling differently is that the autos are commanding an 80x premium over a current PSA 10 copy. Thats where the question is coming from. Is his auto worth paying 16m as opposed to 200-300k?
@@DanTheCardMan2 That's a fair point, but we have to keep in mind that with any item that hits the secondary market, demand dictates what something is worth. If these sell at this price, then the market has told us that it is worth an 80x premium. If they do not sell at this price, then the sellerl(s) will have to adjust until they hit a price point that does bring in sales.
Put it this way, since this is something fairly new (these cards autographed in this grade), the correct thing to do is moon them out on pricing and see if somebody bites. When nobody really has any idea what the true value of something is due to lack of comps, pricing it up and adjusting as needed is the right way to go, especially with something of this tier.
What we shouldn't be doing (and I'm not saying this about you, but about the collector community in general) is get too caught up and form strong opinions on what something is worth until we see what it actually sells for. Without comps, none of us know what the true value is. I stand by my point that these are worth a massive premium over regular PSA 10 MJs, but I just don't know whether that's 10x , 100x, or something in the middle.
Be funny if they didn't get a "10" on one of the Autos. If they submitted Griffey's 89 UD card, only one of those cards would be PSA 10.
To me, I person signed memorabilia isn't really all that special unless the one who signed is no longer with us. I've got a couple of Puckett And Gwynn autos that are the only in person that I own and at least at this time, really care about.
I think the added appeal is also getting the auto yourself
Hello from the rising sun Japan 🇯🇵 I am a new subscriber. Interesting topic
Thanks for subbing!
Blue marker ruins them, and the 100 million dollar offer are both huge jokes. Even paying a premium for a Jordan UNC auto is funny. They were 175 dollars each for years, 2500 now is funny. A dual patch auto with Lebron and Kobe from Exquisite was max 750 bucks.
If I was an athlete I just would not sign my rookie cards. I’d sign other memorabilia and then start signing second year release cards. The blue writing on these looks awful. Surely a white might have stood out better.
michael jordan buys these cards himself. it's been known for a while. he signs them and sells them through other people.
These were not ones he owned
They’re worth what someone will pay. Who wants to pay $4.8 Billion for a boat? Not you? Someone did when they bought the “History Supreme.” Don’t count someone else’s money. Just because you can’t comprehend the price tag doesn’t mean there isn’t someone who pays millions a year for yacht upkeep on a boat they use twice a year that sees $500k as literal pocket change.
I’m not one of them, but I’ve worked in tech for 28 years and I know many people who spend much more for much less interesting and useful things.
I’d even go so far as to say, your shock is a selling point to them. To prove they can and we can’t is half the joy.
I understand that but 16m for a card that sells for 300k? An auto that many can go and get adds that much value?
@@DanTheCardMan2 Anyone spending that much money on it, should such a person come forward, isn’t thinking about them as a life changing investment the way you or I would. They just know they can do it, it’s been hyped up and is rare, and that they’ll not notice the money is even gone. Again, your shock at how much money such a person spends is half the reason they do it.
@@DanTheCardMan2 that and their collection is likely owned by a business entity or trust if they’re spending millions on it, and that entity’s expenses can sometimes be tax deductible for them even.
Spot on. When it comes down to it these are colored pieces of cardboard. Any value is only what someone is willing to pay.
I would never buy an "in person" auto that I didn't see signed, I don't care who authenticates it.
Many feel the same way
I agree 100% Dan. The in-person autograph of a player's rookie card (I don't view 86 Fleer MJ as a RC by the way) was cool when a few people were doing it but once it became a flavor of the month, it became annoying. Rookie cards are hobby constructs. Adding an in-personal signature to them may attract hardcore player collectors but most casual fans are going to get the lowest priced auto or best bang for the buck.
Completely agree and for living athletes there are so many avenues to chase one for yourself. Just a weird valuation on these
I would try and sell them, doesn’t look very appealing
Love the title! Defaced rookie cards, it's tragic.
I love IP autos but this just seems a bit crazy.
the blue ink makes no sense for this card. Did they at least try to write on a random '86 Fleer prior to the MJ session? Total fail
Apparently they did, and they still chose to go ahead with that kind of marker lol.
@@DanTheCardMan2 Yikes! I think whether or not in-person autos are a good idea totally depend on the color scheme of the card being signed.
Maybe he can trade one of those for that off center wemby 1 of 1 psa "10"
Haha
First off how does the auto grade work? If you have a scale 1-10 & everything gets a 10 than something is messed up. To me a 10 auto signature means the auto has to be readable & handwritten nicely. This PSA 10 is none of that & I say good luck getting 100 million For the record there are buy back signed Jordan 86 Fleer RC auto's out there that look better than this.
Auto grades are such a farce. I think they’re pointless
Great idea. Poor execution, certainly not 10 autos as grading scale states for 9 and below “other aesthetic issue such as they state undesirable location if the location of the autograph hinders the eye appeal of the autograph, slightly, in some way.”
There’s no blank space so Location of the auto is an issue when using that ink.
The funny thing is they practiced on a few other cards first. They should’ve gone with a gold or white paint marker imo
@@DanTheCardMan2 that’s crazy if they tested it. Big mistake on choice, would look so nice if a paint pen so the autos and inscriptions are visible
@@TysonBeckDesign lol yep. I believe it was quoted in the cllct article.
My opinion I think they destroyed these cards! Why in the world would they use a blue marker like that?? That looks absolutely awful
to me it a damage card now since it signed and should only care his autograph value? now if it comes out of a pack it was intended to be signed and have jersey way different then, getting a card sign in person that was not intended to be the product. it goes with any hobby out there it not original now. so, I would value it at 500!
I can understand the cards commanding a premium but 300k to 16m? The Guy is dreamin lol
To me these are trash because you can't make out the signature. If the signature was in silver or gold it would have been best.
Maybe they look better in person but I doubt it
I’m a high-end Fleer guy. Have the whole set (and stickers) slabbed and autographed. These are 🗑️
I just feel the narrative behind these is a gimmick. About 3 years too late. 2020 hobby would’ve gone wild for these 😂
@@DanTheCardMan2 At the very least go to Staples and get a $3 thin blue sharpie. The other issue is MJ is alive and well and apparently has a price. Though part of this was a lost golf bet + money. Long story for another day …
@@SportCardMadness they said they practiced on other cards first. Clearly not enough to see the pen was a dud choice 😅… more money than sense
No one in their right mind. You can't even see or read the auto on the stupid card, LOL. I'm speaking from the minority that can actually afford one.
The autos are terrible. I would rather have the 10 with NO auto UNLESS the auto were in silver or gold.
Just bet mj if he loses in golf he has to sign them. Easy peasy
Jordan don't loose though.
I'll take one... for free.
you change ur cam?
Yeah, a few months ago now I think.
NFTs.... trust me
😅
Probstein
They are from his 30 apparently
Are they really 10s? That is the first question that comes to my mind. Seems like a publicity stunt, at least to some degree.
Certainly feels that way tbh
Horrible choice of color for the autos.
I think an actual video of jordan signing these should come with the cards. Other than that, no thanks.
I hate jersey cards what a waste
Nothing more than a glorified IP auto. Not pack pulled, not part of the master checklist. Give me the 2006 buyback auto over any of this
I do prefer back pulled stuff but my general point was that its absurd this guy is making out like an IP turns a 300k card into a $16m one lol
I hate any rookie card that has an in person auto. If they are issued with an auto it’s fine . But cards like this are worth much less to me.
As far as I'm concerned , these cards are ALTERED with any type of writing on them. It's NOT the original manufactured card.
Defaced cards. Get your beckett
Don't like these signed.
Autos are overrated!!!!!!!!!