I love how Yuzuru forces his head into alignment with his toe pick right before he takes off on all of his toe jumps (including this gorgeous quad lutz of course) and he deserved +5.75 GOE on that element if I were a judge😍 The Eteri-lutz should be an over rotated triple jump 😑
Can't stand how they can do over 0.5 revolutions less in the air and still get similar GOEs. I wish judges recognized good technique, but hoping for something from the ISU is pointless lol.
@@figureskatingcow4636 The difference is only about 0.25 revolution You just neet to start counting the angle based on the body position during take-off, not based on the foot's position (this makes much more sense since foot's moment of inertia is negligible compared to body's moment of inertia) So, Anna and Sasha (and most of other skaters since forever) prerotate about 0.5 revolutions Nathan, Boyang and Yuzuru prerotate about 0.25 revolutions (based on body position during take-off) Also, you should take into account, that "prerotation by x degrees" is not as bad as "underrotation by x degrees", because during prerotation stage most of the skater's weight is already in the air and skater just barely touches ice with a toe pick
@Figure Skating Cow .25 pre-rotation is allowed by the ISU. 0.5 is a little much, but a skater shouldn't get more GOE for doing more revolutions that the ISU states is necessary. Yuzuru's lutz here had 3 bullets checked and one could argue he should've lost a bullet or two for a scratchy landing and tilted air position. The 3's and 4's are more than generous for his lutz.
Yes he deserved +5.75 for perfect 4Lz, +5.25 for perfect 4Lo, +4.65 for 4S, 4.50 for (4T+2T) +2.50 for Chsq, +1.95 for Stsq, +1.50 for CCoSp, +1.35 for FCSSp, and at least 97.50 PCS for making only 2 mistakes, popped 3A+3A, and step-out on fully rotated 3F. 4Lo : +4.05 should be +5.25 4Lz : +3.94 should be +5.75 4S : +2.22 should be +4.65 4T2T : 1.90 should be +4.50 4T3F : -2.31 should be -1.00 3Lz : +1.60 should be +1.85 Stsq : +1.18 should be +1.95 Chsq : +1.71 should be +2.50 CCoSp : +1.30 should be +1.50 FCSSp : +0.86 should be +1.35 PCS : 93.64 should be 97.50 If scored fairly, he deserved 212 points. He was at least 18 points underscored, while ''decided winner'' was at least 28 points overscored, and that's how they created a ''Score Sheet Champion'' won by HUGE margin.
No bias but from how the toepick was utilized, Hanyu did a slightly more difficult version since his toe pick was at the same direction as his takeoff foot. Also, that technique reduces the chances of the toe pick suddenly becoming the takeoff foot similar to a loop (like Aliev's pyeongchang 4Lz) You should have included the Grassl Lutz
Oh my God yes. I totally forgot about Grassl. But yeah Yuzuru's technique makes for the most difficult Lutz out of everyone, and the fact that he's relatively consistent is amazing.
@@figureskatingcow4636 I'm new to FS but can someone explain to me how it is that Hanyu gets more rotations with a more difficult entry (all his jumps have choreo in and out) and yet falls behind Chen by quite a bit as far as GOE.
@@figureskatingcow4636, that is very true, I still lay awake at night sometimes wondering, and I still cannot understand why they do this to arguably their best skater! 😭 Thanks for the video!!!
@Tammy C I'm confused where people get this from? Hanyu gets higher GOE on his 4T, 4S and 4L 90% of the time. The only jumps that Nathan gets higher GOE on is the 4F for obvious reasons and 4Lz. And another thing, even in ISU simulation they allow up to 1/4 pre-rotation. Hanyu not prerotating at all isn't a GOE bullet, he's basically just over-rotating by the ISU's standards. It's not ISU corruption, it's logic.
The Isu must really hate Boyang, his perfect 4 Lutz got less GOE than Trusova's overrated 3 Lutz... I have nothing against her, I think she's a tenacious and hardworking girl, and very brave to try quads. But I wish they would point out the preparation and the full blade on the toe pick. Same goes for Shcherbakova (but hers is actually worse).
I know!!! 😭 Like, what do they have against him??? Sometimes his Lutzes don't have the best landings, but otherwise they are truly amazing and completely textbook!!! If I remember correctly, he had quite a stunning Lutz in his 2018 OG SP, but he only received .30 higher in GOE than an underrotated and Loopified Lutz from another skater!!! 😨😱😡😬 It's really unjust how little they reward him and some other skaters.
With worlds cancellation, we need more FS videos. Please make more! Men quad lutz in the video are all good. Between Trusova and Scherbakova, I'll say Trusova quad looks better, has outside edge, though still rotate too much on ice. I cringe every time Scherbakova does her version of "quad" lutz. She does not have an outside edge and sometimes rotation on ice could reach to 270 deg. It's not a good technique, and she should not be rewarded as much with GOE.
I'll definitely be making more! And yeah I agree, Trusova's Lutz at least uses the toepick, although I feel she lifts up her outside edge too soon. Shcherbakova's looks pretty but technically it's a mess. She's only doing 3.25 revs but the judges call it a quad, and that is simply unfair.
@@figureskatingcow4636 well we know that ISU does not have guidance about prerotation so I just wish that her Lz edge is called and maybe deduction on bad takeoff (-2 to -3 GOE). If judges do that Anna's quad lutz would not earn +2 or +3 that she got in competitions.
People always downplay Nathan's 4lz, but his outside edge going into it is insane and he's the most consistent skater out there with an actual correct and rotated 4lz
It is more difficult to see the edge with hose pulled over skating boots, but I believe Sherbakova's edge was cleaner than that of Trusova. Yuzuru lutz is perfection itself.
Can we appreciate the height on the men's 4Lz? They are so jaw-dropping! I don't think the women's singles should do quads all the time. It's too risky and takes away their artistry because of focus on their quad jumps. Men have more power, but have less flexibility and balance, while women have much more difficult spin combos and spiral sequences, and should take advantage of it more. I wish the ISU put more point-emphasis on those other elements. The women's 3Lz and 3A are amazing! Shouldn't those jumps be talked about more? Shouldn't the ISU be impressed with those less-rotation but higher-quality jumps rather than their obsession with young teens doing subpar quads (actually triples)? How about jump combinations? I remember 10-20 years ago when people lost their sh-t about a 3-3 combination. Sometimes even 3-2-2 or 3-3-2 combinations too! Those seem more impressive and allocate more points than one quad!
I would take a good 3-3 or three jump combo over a Quad Lutz by a small girl any day. I think that a woman should only go for quads if they are not going growing anymore (like Liza), otherwise it's simply unsustainable.
Disagree. Difficulty will ALWAYS take a toll on artistry, regardless of gender, but it’s also why defines figure skating as a sport. I do not like the egregious jump technique of some skaters, but again it happens on both men and women. On the other hand, I love the elegance and power of some quads landed by ladies, like Sasha and Valieva’s quad toe. Let those girls do their thing, they are pushing boundaries and deserve our utmost respect.
Trusova's is overscored, should be a q and a little positive GOE. Anna's should be -2 or -3. The rest is accurate considering Nathan has the best air position, rotation speed and good height. Yuzu is a little tilted and foward on landing so his is justified as well. Can't tell from Boyang's, seems a bit low.
Nathan's and Boyang Jin's 4Lz are so textbook perfect with great height, distance and fast rotation speed. He and Boyang Jin holds some of the highest scores for 4Lz. Mikhail's 4Lz is also textbook example even though it wasn't in the top scores. Hanyu only did one correct 4Lz out of the three he did in his whole career.
Lee Harry Yuzu has less preparation and more steps before his quad lutz, increasing the difficulty and instability of the jump. If he would take half the rink to prepare for the jump, i bet he would be landing it at least 80% of the times.
@@chibiousstore5712 I wrote "I'm trying" So Yuzu did (since 2011) 4Lz at 2017 Rostelecom Cup, 2019 GPF - both clean, 4CC and maybe another one during his senior career ... Nathan over 40 (since 2016) and some in combination 4/3... If you remember about any Yuzu 4Lz at competition and GOE please write ...
I was trying to count how many Top 10, Top 20, Top 30, Top 50, GOATs and Legends lists Hanyu is mentioned in, and how many GOATs and Legends lists my favorite jumper is NOT mentioned. And just 😟 the result is so shocking 😞
His 4lz is otherworldly but his transitions are just ordinary. To be fair, no one in the field has good 4lz transitions since it's such a hard jump in general.
Nathan had the highest mark for 4 Lutz 16.26 (2019 Worlds) After Beijing 2022 the highest mark is 16.43. You don't see because you are @Sherry from UA-cam (which I'm sending ❤️❤️❤️), not ratified international judge.
@@olegrostov9722 Still didn't answer my question. If Boyang, Yuzu and Kolyada did the exact same 4Lz with textbook technique then they should in theory get a score of 16+ on it just like Nathan. It doesn't take a certified judging license to see that this doesn't make sense.
@Sherry T That is because comparing same jump from different competitions judged by different judging panels will definitely give different results. Video creator should have taken the same jump from same competition for fairer comparison though it would be difficult since skater like Hanyu only did three 4Lz in his whole career.
Hanyu did only ONE correct 4 Lutz in his whole career. It was at 2019 GPF. (and 2017 Rostelecom Cup, 2020 4CC) If he had done a few dozen clean 4Lz, he would have gotten the Chen score for sure. I admit Boyang had an excellent 4Lz. He was very good, but he's not the athlete he used to be.
Also I disagree your calculation of Yuzuru’s rotation. His toepick is pointing outward but his upperbody and knee is already facing forward, the revolution should be a bit less than 3.85.
School got cancelled, so now there's time for making videos. Reply with suggestions!!
I'm in college and the rest of the semester turned into online learning lmao
I really really missed your videos!
I'll definitely be uploading more now!
Yuzuru Hanyu looks elegant pre- and post-jumps, and during jumps. Busy, busy, busy before a jump, and coming out of it seamlessly.
Yuzuru makes the Lutz so beautiful, not only for the jump itself but also the in and out.
I love how Yuzuru forces his head into alignment with his toe pick right before he takes off on all of his toe jumps (including this gorgeous quad lutz of course) and he deserved +5.75 GOE on that element if I were a judge😍 The Eteri-lutz should be an over rotated triple jump 😑
Can't stand how they can do over 0.5 revolutions less in the air and still get similar GOEs. I wish judges recognized good technique, but hoping for something from the ISU is pointless lol.
@@figureskatingcow4636
The difference is only about 0.25 revolution
You just neet to start counting the angle based on the body position during take-off, not based on the foot's position
(this makes much more sense since foot's moment of inertia is negligible compared to body's moment of inertia)
So, Anna and Sasha (and most of other skaters since forever) prerotate about 0.5 revolutions
Nathan, Boyang and Yuzuru prerotate about 0.25 revolutions (based on body position during take-off)
Also, you should take into account, that "prerotation by x degrees" is not as bad as "underrotation by x degrees",
because during prerotation stage most of the skater's weight is already in the air and skater just barely touches ice with a toe pick
@Figure Skating Cow .25 pre-rotation is allowed by the ISU. 0.5 is a little much, but a skater shouldn't get more GOE for doing more revolutions that the ISU states is necessary. Yuzuru's lutz here had 3 bullets checked and one could argue he should've lost a bullet or two for a scratchy landing and tilted air position. The 3's and 4's are more than generous for his lutz.
Yes he deserved +5.75 for perfect 4Lz, +5.25 for perfect 4Lo, +4.65 for 4S, 4.50 for (4T+2T) +2.50 for Chsq, +1.95 for Stsq, +1.50 for CCoSp, +1.35 for FCSSp, and at least 97.50 PCS for making only 2 mistakes, popped 3A+3A, and step-out on fully rotated 3F.
4Lo : +4.05 should be +5.25
4Lz : +3.94 should be +5.75
4S : +2.22 should be +4.65
4T2T : 1.90 should be +4.50
4T3F : -2.31 should be -1.00
3Lz : +1.60 should be +1.85
Stsq : +1.18 should be +1.95
Chsq : +1.71 should be +2.50
CCoSp : +1.30 should be +1.50
FCSSp : +0.86 should be +1.35
PCS : 93.64 should be 97.50
If scored fairly, he deserved 212 points. He was at least 18 points underscored, while ''decided winner'' was at least 28 points overscored, and that's how they created a ''Score Sheet Champion'' won by HUGE margin.
No bias but from how the toepick was utilized, Hanyu did a slightly more difficult version since his toe pick was at the same direction as his takeoff foot. Also, that technique reduces the chances of the toe pick suddenly becoming the takeoff foot similar to a loop (like Aliev's pyeongchang 4Lz)
You should have included the Grassl Lutz
Oh my God yes. I totally forgot about Grassl. But yeah Yuzuru's technique makes for the most difficult Lutz out of everyone, and the fact that he's relatively consistent is amazing.
@@figureskatingcow4636 I'm new to FS but can someone explain to me how it is that Hanyu gets more rotations with a more difficult entry (all his jumps have choreo in and out) and yet falls behind Chen by quite a bit as far as GOE.
@@tammyc3072 Honestly, I think it's just ISU being incapable to judge with integrity. I don't have any other explanation lol
@@figureskatingcow4636, that is very true, I still lay awake at night sometimes wondering, and I still cannot understand why they do this to arguably their best skater! 😭 Thanks for the video!!!
@Tammy C I'm confused where people get this from? Hanyu gets higher GOE on his 4T, 4S and 4L 90% of the time. The only jumps that Nathan gets higher GOE on is the 4F for obvious reasons and 4Lz. And another thing, even in ISU simulation they allow up to 1/4 pre-rotation. Hanyu not prerotating at all isn't a GOE bullet, he's basically just over-rotating by the ISU's standards. It's not ISU corruption, it's logic.
Yuzuru and Boyang's quad Lutzes are stunning
And nathan chen with 4.76 🤔
@@leeharry6105 Amen!
Nathan's 4Lz - 16.26 points ( ! ) was really phenomenal !
Best Lutz : Yuzu , Boyang , Kolyada
Quad Lutz HIGH QUALITY Mikhail Kolyada Boyang Jin Nathan Chen Perfect Technique ua-cam.com/video/djpr_2be9iU/v-deo.html
Not really, it means nothing if you can’t do it consistently.
@@liitbro i think it could mean a good deal in the right competition tbh, but could certainly backfire
why not nathan?
Yuzuru Hanyu has a beyond perfect quad lutz
The Isu must really hate Boyang, his perfect 4 Lutz got less GOE than Trusova's overrated 3 Lutz... I have nothing against her, I think she's a tenacious and hardworking girl, and very brave to try quads. But I wish they would point out the preparation and the full blade on the toe pick. Same goes for Shcherbakova (but hers is actually worse).
Boyang's problem is he's not consistent and the majority of the time his 4lz isn't great looking.
I know!!! 😭 Like, what do they have against him??? Sometimes his Lutzes don't have the best landings, but otherwise they are truly amazing and completely textbook!!! If I remember correctly, he had quite a stunning Lutz in his 2018 OG SP, but he only received .30 higher in GOE than an underrotated and Loopified Lutz from another skater!!! 😨😱😡😬 It's really unjust how little they reward him and some other skaters.
With worlds cancellation, we need more FS videos. Please make more!
Men quad lutz in the video are all good. Between Trusova and Scherbakova, I'll say Trusova quad looks better, has outside edge, though still rotate too much on ice. I cringe every time Scherbakova does her version of "quad" lutz. She does not have an outside edge and sometimes rotation on ice could reach to 270 deg. It's not a good technique, and she should not be rewarded as much with GOE.
I'll definitely be making more! And yeah I agree, Trusova's Lutz at least uses the toepick, although I feel she lifts up her outside edge too soon. Shcherbakova's looks pretty but technically it's a mess. She's only doing 3.25 revs but the judges call it a quad, and that is simply unfair.
@@figureskatingcow4636 well we know that ISU does not have guidance about prerotation so I just wish that her Lz edge is called and maybe deduction on bad takeoff (-2 to -3 GOE). If judges do that Anna's quad lutz would not earn +2 or +3 that she got in competitions.
yuzu is so elegant and seamless
I'm still cheering for Boyang. I think he needs a chance to train outside China to truly show his possibilities. Mr. Hanyu, impeccable.
People always downplay Nathan's 4lz, but his outside edge going into it is insane and he's the most consistent skater out there with an actual correct and rotated 4lz
Too many people on Twitter crap on Nathan, and it's so frustrating. He's probably the best jumper FS has ever had.
@@figureskatingcow4636 Agreed!
His 4lutz at saitama is STUNNING
His 4lz is stunning but GOE is way too high. That’s fact.
@@ninomi0_o Only skater in the world doing it correctly and consistently. Also with transitions going in and out of it. So, no. Stay mad. :)
Well... i'm not surprise if Nathan always get GOE +5 ....judges love him ...
Yuzuru (wow) and Boyang are stunning! Also for Nathan.
It is more difficult to see the edge with hose pulled over skating boots, but I believe Sherbakova's edge was cleaner than that of Trusova. Yuzuru lutz is perfection itself.
Can we appreciate the height on the men's 4Lz? They are so jaw-dropping!
I don't think the women's singles should do quads all the time. It's too risky and takes away their artistry because of focus on their quad jumps. Men have more power, but have less flexibility and balance, while women have much more difficult spin combos and spiral sequences, and should take advantage of it more. I wish the ISU put more point-emphasis on those other elements.
The women's 3Lz and 3A are amazing! Shouldn't those jumps be talked about more? Shouldn't the ISU be impressed with those less-rotation but higher-quality jumps rather than their obsession with young teens doing subpar quads (actually triples)?
How about jump combinations? I remember 10-20 years ago when people lost their sh-t about a 3-3 combination. Sometimes even 3-2-2 or 3-3-2 combinations too! Those seem more impressive and allocate more points than one quad!
I would take a good 3-3 or three jump combo over a Quad Lutz by a small girl any day. I think that a woman should only go for quads if they are not going growing anymore (like Liza), otherwise it's simply unsustainable.
Disagree. Difficulty will ALWAYS take a toll on artistry, regardless of gender, but it’s also why defines figure skating as a sport. I do not like the egregious jump technique of some skaters, but again it happens on both men and women. On the other hand, I love the elegance and power of some quads landed by ladies, like Sasha and Valieva’s quad toe. Let those girls do their thing, they are pushing boundaries and deserve our utmost respect.
Trusova's is overscored, should be a q and a little positive GOE. Anna's should be -2 or -3. The rest is accurate considering Nathan has the best air position, rotation speed and good height. Yuzu is a little tilted and foward on landing so his is justified as well. Can't tell from Boyang's, seems a bit low.
Nathan's and Boyang Jin's 4Lz are so textbook perfect with great height, distance and fast rotation speed. He and Boyang Jin holds some of the highest scores for 4Lz. Mikhail's 4Lz is also textbook example even though it wasn't in the top scores. Hanyu only did one correct 4Lz out of the three he did in his whole career.
Yuzu and boyang luzt is so beautiful unfortunately their luzt dont stable 😔 and too dangerous make them injured. 🙏
Lee Harry Yuzu has less preparation and more steps before his quad lutz, increasing the difficulty and instability of the jump. If he would take half the rink to prepare for the jump, i bet he would be landing it at least 80% of the times.
Lee Harry I'm trying to calculate how many 4Lutzes Yuzu did and how many Nathan at international competitions ... And just 😲
@@olegrostov9722 the result?
@@chibiousstore5712 I wrote "I'm trying" So Yuzu did (since 2011) 4Lz at 2017 Rostelecom Cup, 2019 GPF - both clean, 4CC and maybe another one during his senior career ... Nathan over 40 (since 2016) and some in combination 4/3... If you remember about any Yuzu 4Lz at competition and GOE please write ...
I was trying to count how many Top 10, Top 20, Top 30, Top 50, GOATs and Legends lists Hanyu is mentioned in, and how many GOATs and Legends lists my favorite jumper is NOT mentioned. And just 😟 the result is so shocking 😞
Nothing compares to Nathan’s consistently high-quality quad lutz, with super efficient textbook technique and intricate transitions❤️❤️
His 4lz is otherworldly but his transitions are just ordinary. To be fair, no one in the field has good 4lz transitions since it's such a hard jump in general.
Schools are cancelled here too, so I need your videos!
hanyu's landing is not even clean.
Nathan's 4.76 + GOE ! 👑 Was 16.26 now is 16.43 . This is the 4 Lutz even to the beat of the music !
He deserved it but why did Boyang and Yuzu not get 4+ GOE?? I don't see a difference...
Nathan had the highest mark for 4 Lutz 16.26 (2019 Worlds) After Beijing 2022 the highest mark is 16.43.
You don't see because you are @Sherry from UA-cam (which I'm sending ❤️❤️❤️), not ratified international judge.
@@olegrostov9722 Still didn't answer my question. If Boyang, Yuzu and Kolyada did the exact same 4Lz with textbook technique then they should in theory get a score of 16+ on it just like Nathan. It doesn't take a certified judging license to see that this doesn't make sense.
@Sherry T That is because comparing same jump from different competitions judged by different judging panels will definitely give different results. Video creator should have taken the same jump from same competition for fairer comparison though it would be difficult since skater like Hanyu only did three 4Lz in his whole career.
Hanyu did only ONE correct 4 Lutz in his whole career. It was at 2019 GPF. (and 2017 Rostelecom Cup, 2020 4CC) If he had done a few dozen clean 4Lz, he would have gotten the Chen score for sure.
I admit Boyang had an excellent 4Lz. He was very good, but he's not the athlete he used to be.
1:26 lol at nathan’s super inflated goe from the other men’s wth?
can i know what music is playing in the background please? thank you!
Assassin's tango!
@@figureskatingcow4636 ah thank you!
Also I disagree your calculation of Yuzuru’s rotation. His toepick is pointing outward but his upperbody and knee is already facing forward, the revolution should be a bit less than 3.85.
funny lol xD xD