The best hot hatch of all time? Peugeot 205 GTI vs Mk1 Golf GTI
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2020
- The debate on whether the Volkswagen Golf GTi is best or the Peugeot 205 GTi has raged for years. Both these cars could outpace a supercar of the era down a country road. Here I get to drive them both and find out which fo me is the real KING of the GTIs.
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Any 'petrolhead' will have a great deal of respect for the original Golf GTI, but for me there is no comparison. 205 GTI any day of the week. Thanks for upload.
Astra GTE !
@@malcolmhardwick4258 I only drove one once (a mk. 2, 8 valve), and didn't dislike it, far from it. However, it was a completely different sort of hot-hatch to the 205 GTI. It lacked the intimacy, the responsiveness, the twitchiness, and the excitement. Horses for courses, as they say.
@@malcolmhardwick4258 As a former 205 GTI owner, I always thought the Astra GTE was underrated.
I had a 205 1.9 Gti from new. Absolutely fantastic 😃
Excellent review Jack.
Two great cars. The 205 still looks so pretty today, they got it so so right when Peugeot came out with this design, especially in GTI guise.
Thanks buddy..!
I owned both back in the day.....I had the 1.6 versions, and I seem to remember the golf was a 4 speed....it was definitely better built, but the 205 was way more fun, it always felt like a go-cart compared to the golf. Loving these videos, so much nostalgia 😍
Agree Graham. I owned both the 1.6 and 1.9 205 GTi and only sold the 1.9 because we had a baby and we needed something bigger. I also owned a Mk2 Golf GTI-16v a little later. I loved all three. If I HAD to pick one? It would be the 1.9 205. It was just so much fun. Mind you, it was very flimsy and in an accident, I wonder if the Mk2 Golf would fare a little better?
The problem with the 205 was that it was so good it was impossible to drive slowly. You'd reverse it out of the garage at 60 miles an hour it was just that kind of car. I have no idea how I didn't lose my licence back then. Had there been cameras like today I would have done for sure.
Max Goodman They literally didn't like to drive slow, the throttle was so instant, I loved mine and have never had so much fun in any car since. I took on a Ferrari 355 around twisty roads in the 90s...and the Ferrari driver insisted I let him drive my pug...he was hugely impressed 😀
IKWYM. My later 115bhp 1.6GTI was a hoot to drive and I'd have probably has lost my licence had I justified spending the extra on a 1.9.
Before I even watch this I know the answer Peugeot 205!
Yess
205 all the way, awesome car in every way
Peugeot 205 everyday of the week!!! And no need to apologise about your wind 0.27 it happens to the best of us🚒👍
That Golf is a lovely example. So many UA-cam tests are negated nowadays by selecting cars that have been messed with.
No contest! The 205GTi is twice the car, but respect to the Golf for starting off the hot hatch era
BMW 2000tii touring was a few years before but always gets forgotten. 🙂
All 205 gti's came with a free asbo and restrain order, the golf gti was a more refined hooligan asbo's where optional lol i owned 2 pug 205 gti's which i drove with great enthusiasm and eventually over cooked it twice did a spot of landscape gardening and hedge bottom re-arranging. managed to not do the same with the golf maybe id learned to avoid hedge bottoms. The problem with the golf was it rotted around me and literally fell apart. im grining from ear to ear with the fond memories of both. if i had a choice though it would be the pug 205gti
Fair play man , but I’m a sucker for mk1’s 🤛🏿
😂 what a load of old shit, there’s thousands of Mk1 golfs still on the road, because they didn’t rot away, not like some Alsace tin did like the Peugeot or renaults of the same era
The golfs still as good today as it always was
@@pheasantpluckersson2138 are you kidding? 205 rusting? Yeah right
205 gti, every single time .I like the golf but I LOVE the Pug !!!
This was a great trip down memory lane for me, thank you! I owned both of these cars back in the day and enjoyed both for the different rewards they offered. Moved on to a Caterham 7 before growing old and boring! I enjoyed your review and thought you captured the essence of them well.
I'll probably get some stick in the comments for this and I will say I've never driven a mk1 Golf GTI but I have driven quite a few other mk's of Golf GTI and I've always found them very underwhelming/ dull cars , cracking video as always Jack 👍
The steering of the golf MK1 and 2 always felt like I was winding up a rubber band. Like there wasn't any direct contact. All eighties era vag cars had that disconnected feel. The KR 16v was a brilliant engine though. (As was the Mi16)
For me the 205 GTi all the way.
I love them both, and yes: the 205GTI is in many respects a much more legal successor to the Golf1 GTI than the Golf2 GTI is.
I like the Peugeot more simply because of the way it looks.
Awesome to see these cars reviewed back to back in this day and age, i lusted after both of these for many years but never had the opportunity to drive one, what a joy to see them both together its like stepping back into my childhood :)
The Golf looks like an 80's car the 205 is timeless. If the 205 gti was produced today as a new car it would not look out of place.
Yeah France should do a retro Peugeot GTI styled like a 205 same way Fiat does with the 500
Lovely Jubbly, another great video full of enthusiasm for these wee cars.
Always look forward to your posts. Good information
The reverse light switch on the gearbox of the Golf is knackered, the reverse lights are staying on, also the wiper arms and spindles are set up for a left hand drive vehicle, on a right hand drive UK spec the spindles are mirrored and the arms sweep up towards the offside pillar.
I owned a mk1 GTi and in South Africa it was a four door 1.8i. I was a schoolboy and I loved it to bits. Fond memories. We never got the 205 and only got the 206 much later. Had two of those too, both GTi’s as well!
I am from South Africa. I have a 208 GTi. 147 kW 😈. We never had any 80s Peugeots sadly. Missed out on the best decade for hot hatches with the 205 GTi. That's why we have so many locals crazy about VW these days. The Golf is so boring. Even the current ones are. And too common too 😒😴
I’ve always thought the Golf looked a bit girly whereas the 205 is a beast
I’d have the 205 in a heartbeat
I recall vividly being in the back of a 1.6 205 GTi when it 'swapped ends' on a twisty sussex road 😱💩
I had a 1.6 and a 1.8 Golf, both were fantastic. Then I had a Renault 5 GT Turbo which I had mildly tweaked. My best memory of the Renault was racing a Capri Brooklands from the lights, I slowed at 60 mph whilst leading. My Peugeot 205 !.9 was also a great machine but build quality on the French cars was poor whereas unsurprisingly the Golfs were on another level. Looking back, my first choice would be the Golf 1.8 GTI, but all were great!!!!
The design of the 205 is way better. It looks a lot more modern, a little futuristic and very well balanced. One of the coolest small cars ever made. On some rare occasions Peugeot produces absolute brilliance.
I ran a 205 GTI 1.6 for a few years. The thing which sticks in my mind was the steering. Great to see they are still getting the love. Unfortunately, mine was knackered at 60k and burnt more oil that petrol. I traded it in for a brand new 106 Rallye 1.6. The Rallye was everything the 205 was and more. All the fun without the quirks. Give one a try.
Yes, would love to try one!!
Will await a comparison review of the Pug 1.9 against its natural rival back in the day: the Renault 5GT Turbo.
Ruairi McCarthy If remember correctly, the Uno Turbo didn’t win many (any) tests back in the day.
Oh I love the gt turbo
Nah, the gt turbo was no march. My work colleague had one. Dreadful build, always issues. Pug was way better and faster
The Renault 5GT Turbo would Eat 205 Gti's for breakfast, everything the 205 GTi did very well, the little Renault did BETTER. Peugeot were worried.
The R5 exploded every 5 min, the XU lump was very reliable.
Great review I had a Golf GTI 1.6 and a 1.8 110 HP back in the days around 1981 these cars are still amazing drove them both for around 8 years the handling is great ! 👍
Thank you and enjoy whatever you’re driving now!!
Great review, I worked at a VW dealers in the early 90's so managed to drive a lot of Golf's, both mk1 and mk2 GTI's 8v and 156V, but the car I owned was a 205GTI 1.6 had it lowered slightly on Spax springs and dampers it went round corners like it was on rails, it just fizzed in the hands and under yer bum, brilliant little go cart, after that I had a 309GTI Series 2, spent a small fortune getting it tuned.... which went like a stabbed rat, and handled even better on the back roads, round where I use to live... but stupidly sold it, because I saw something newer, faster etc, that just turned into a money pit.... story of my life with cars and motorbikes.
Wish I still had the 309GTI now, even harder to find a decent one, than the 205.
I had the same spec car as that blue one. Heavy dose of nostalgia, what fun times!
ALFASUD TI Was the best big hatch if all time
The 205 is a real landmark car in every respect. I love the Golf but the 205 is a masterpiece of design and packaging. One of the best looking cars ever designed. I have driven diesels, lesser petrol engined versions and GTIs and they are always fun with great chassis control. The GTI just seemed to hit that spot where looks, performance, handling and sheer enjoyment converged. A real high point for Peugeot.
Agreed!!!
Great video! Both are pretty and have that pure design ethic that eventually gets blurred away through the years with updates and revisions. The mk1 particularly has an extremely clean aesthetic. Looks like a it was designed with a drafting pencil and lines. Ahh the before times.
The 205 was always the better car to drive and faster. Golf has VW build quality something the 205 never got close to but I'd take the 205 over the Golf and twice on Sunday.
Agreed!’ Hope all good buddy!
Everyone talks about how the Golf was so much better built than the 205, yet the only way you can reach that conclusikn is by leabing corrosion resistnace out of the equation. For such a supposedly poorly built car, you still see 205s out and about in everyday use fairly frequently.
Having been at the wheel of a 205 and owned a 309 (which I guess has similar set up). I'm with you on the steering. These cars had better steering than anything else I've ever driven.
I remember driving a mk1 1.8 16valve,it was some kind of special edition with a body kit having to fight the torque steer as it headed for the pavement it was a lot of fun.
Drove both back in the day. The 1.6 Mk1 GTi was a bit sharper but due to the conversion to RHD, which left the master cylinder on the left, the braking performance was eye-opening, and not in a good way. The 1.6 205 was similarly a bit revier and pointier than the 1.9, but had such sharp throttle response it was almost an on/off switch. They were renowned for violent lift-off oversteer. So both were great fun; it was just a case of whether you prefered entering the scenery facing forwards or backwards.
Nice video would be interesting to compare Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9 with Mk2 Golf GTi 16 valve
Id take either over a modern car I must admit both were a pleasure to own the most missed though was a scirocco
Could have done with this video 25-30 years ago when as schoolboys we were arguing about which car we wanted to own (but were never likely to until we were much older).
For what it's worth I always wanted a 205 back then, butI later ended up owning a succession of Golfs.
A great review! I owned a Mk 1 1.6 Golf GTI and a Mk2 Golf GTI but I always enjoyed a blast in my mates 205 1.9, it just felt more hooligan! However with that in mind the Mk2 Golf GTI was an awesome car. I think VW have never better that car and I drive a modern Golf Mk7.5.
I drove a Golf Mk 1 GTI, and rallied a 205 GTI. The golf was the 1.8, the 205 was the 1.6. That 8v Golf engine was just so torquey. The 205 was just a roller skate, though we had Bilstein suspension roll cage and competition engine mounts in it....so probably not the best comparison. I can't say which I preferred as clearly they were used differently. Probably I would say, for smooth consistent pace it was the golf, for flat out stuff the 205. But how can you compare a rally car to a road car? Anyway, just thought I'd comment. I remember that if you unscrewed the eight 10mm bolts on the front valance of the 205, and disconnected the hoses, you could lift out the entire front of the car, radiator and all, and basically walk into the engine bay to work on it. We were always told, "if you think you are going to bin the 205, grab the handbrake and go in backwards....that way you will do less damage!" I have to say that I am really warming to your channel Jack, and your presentation, great stuff.
The 1.6 and 1.8 GTI engines are so different. Totally different cylinder head design. I found the 1.6 much more rewarding to rev - it sang between 3k and 6k RPM and loved to rev. 1.8 all about the extra midrange torque which you can really feel. One for me though is Mk 2 16v. Still use an Oak Green big bumper as my daily driver. Never misses a beat and still feels great.
Definitely the 205. Always wanted one!
That 205 is timeless.
Honestly if I had the money I would have either one. Both great little cars.
For that price bracket '80s era, I'd have an AE86 over any other hot hatch any day of the week
I also loved both cars what I loved most on the golf was its steering I felt it was talking to me all the time telling me what the front wheels where doing but road holding for me was always the 205 it felt more sure footed specially leaving the motorway n the curve had negative camber n If it was also a little bumpy you felt the car jumping out a little over each bump there the 205 felt so much better in similar conditions, just wished I also had an Alfasud as I only drove it once for bout 15 minutes n its road/holding was Very impressive the way it went round corners was Brilliant as i wasn't mine i never pushed it not with Gino sitting in the car anyway
I’m not gonna say that one is better then the other.
Both the Peugeot 205 GTi and the Volkswagen Golf GTi are legendary hot hatches
I had an 83 golf with lowered bilstein suspension and bigger compomotive wheels with lower profile tyres, absolutely loved it, cornered really flat but would still eventually cock its leg. Liked the Peugeot as well but always have a soft spot for the MK1 Golf.
They are King and King - Both are superb from different drivers view points - I think they stay together - close and fabulous
I'd have to take the harder edged VW myself. That particular Golf GTI seems to be riding a bit high however.
The steering sharpness difference is likely the larger wheels and lower profile tires on the 205.
Nice review but my weapon of choice in the 80s xr3 oh yes ! Agh nostalgia
I had an XR3i MK3 Escort.....the 205 murders it. But it looked great, though.
Would like to see you do a comparison of a 205 gti and a Renault 5 GT turbo. You did a great job of contrasting the two here 👍
As a 3 time GTI owner (currently have a MkVII, Sport), I admit my old Pug 306 XSi was my fave handler at least in FWD world. The 306 was unreliable but so good on a back road. Here in the US sadly, old good FWD hatches are really limited to the Golf GTI, but then later on we have Mazdaspeed 3. We had the Fiesta ST, but now no longer available in the US :/, the new Corolla XSE is pretty sport, but hope we get the GR version.
Alfasud Ti Cloverleaf would be my pick of the early hot hatches but both these are nice.
Bought a 205 gti for my Mrs when she passed her test about 15 years ago .she never got to drive it much ,I always nicked it for a blast .ive owned escort Rs turbos ,xr4x4 , 2 Impreza wrx and various others , and to this day I've not driven a car that you can blast through the twisteys like the pug .it handled brilliant.
I loved my 1990 'H' Peugeot 205GTI that I had for a few years in the mid-late 90s. Huge fun, responsive engine, lovely steering etc. Do also like the looks of late Mk1 Golf GTi's too which are much nicer looking that the MK2 imo.
The Golf was a revelation when it first appeared. Remember, there was nothing else like at that time. I never got the chance to try a Golf but did have a friend with a MkI Scirroco Storm which was amazing. There was very little that could keep up with that on a bendy bit of black stuff. Mind you, my 1275GT Mini (a bit tuned) would give it a real run for it's money!.
The 205 was a very different car as far as I remember from my one time drive. Much more kart like and a bit fidgity I thought. Huge fun though.
Nice vid Jack, more please. How about a Lambo Urraco and the Influenzo? That would be a brilliant thing to see.
Would love to but need to find an Urraco first!!
@@Number27 I like to give you a challange!
"sniffing out the apex"
What a perfect description
Thanks for this. Next up Ren 5GT Turbo!
You need to try an alfasud, would suggest 1.2 ti is optimum drive though lacks power of later versions with bigger engines.
What a video!! 205 for me was always superior to the Golf (But actually, I'd personally go for a 309 GTI!)
Looks like the handbrake cables on the Pug have popped out of the grooves in the petrol tank. (I'm assuming the 1.9 is the same as the 1.6 here.)
Both nice cars but the BMW 2000tii touring is the original hot hatch for me. 130bhp and rear wheel drive, with split folding rear seats. Even the non injected 100bhp version is a great car. Anyway, thanks for the video. Really enjoyable.
Definitely the best one is the Puglet 205 GTi.
I drove a golf GTi many years ago having just passed my test.. so early in my driving career that I used to sit almost on top of the steering wheel and I found the position of the door mirrors to be very awkward to use. It was a lush car though... but when I discovered the Puglet...
W😮W!
I ran 3 mk1 gti's for about 10 years. They do benefit from a front strut brace underneath. Mine weighed 860kg. I had a 1.8 campaign, a 2 litre 8 valve by gti engineering (i still have the lovely nardi leather wheel in my attic) which I crashed and a 1.9 that I put a Tim Stiles 2 litre 8 valve and a "formel e" gearbox as it had so much torque. A friend lent me his 1.6 peugeot gti he loved and I just didn't think that much of it, in fact I couldn't see what the fuss was about. It felt light but largely due to the tinny bodyshell and fittings. The driving experience was underwhelming. And my other car at the time was a 140bhp Caterham so I'm no softy. Just my experience, obviously drive them both and buy what you prefer. Btw my last mk1 gti did 500,000 miles before I was heavily rearended on the a120. Whoever broke that car got themselves a hell of an engine
The 1.6 Mk1 Golf wasn't as quick, but the engine was *much* smoother than the later 1.8 and very cammy, it didn't come on song until 4,000 rpm and then it was all whizz bang. :) Really good review and I think the 205 is a better GTI out of the two - but both iconic vehicles. :) BTW - If you want to try the 205 against a mk2 Golf we have a totally standard small bumper Mk2 16v from 1988 in Tornado red. :)
Now we have to get you into a Lancia Delta Integrale! 😍
Already owned one.. was a good car but did not like it as much as I thought I would. There are videos on it on the channel!
No mate, you should be comparing the Mk1 Golf, to the other hot hatches that came before it, and around the same time. Like the earlier Simca 1100ti, Austin Maxi HL (both hatchbacks), Talbot Sunbeam Lotus, the Alfasud 1.5ti cloverleaf, the Renault 5 alpine, etc
I had a pug 205 gti it was great fun . Handling was mega
Renault 5 turbo was fast but no way as fun to drive .
I had one in the 90s, and it's so much better looking than the Golf of any gen!
I also had both in my younger years I loved them both but when it comes to road holding the 205 Is my number 1 choice where i was never sure about the golf was say leaving the motorway as the road was going left if there was also a negative camber on that road the golf was a bit scary nothing as sure footed as the 205 but the golf steering I loved it just spoke to u all the time to tell u exactly what the front wheels where doing, what would I get today if I had the choice? tough call but it be the 205, the only other car I drove very briefly was my mate's Alfasud but not for a long time to have an opinion but its road holding was Amazing maybe one day 205 versus the Alfasud? it be very interesting n am sure not just for me thanks once again mate a fair n honest comparison cheers
Thanks matey, must try an AlfaSud soon!!
I think that the wheels and tires specifications on both cars are big effects in term of riding performance. (Golf 175-70-13 vs Pug195-50-15)
I had a 1.6 gti had it tuned up it was a blast to drive there was no car in its class that could even get near it the pug just loved to be taken to the max but you had to be careful of liftoff on windy roads wish I’d brought a Peugeot Gti6 later on as this was the last true Hothatch from them 😅
No, no, no best comparison would be 309 16v ( Europe only ) vs. Golf mkII 16v.
I'd have the 205 over the Golf all day long but I'd have a Sud Ti Cloverleaf as James tested over the Golf. I don't think you can compare them as they are different eras.
Neither. The Mk2 Golf GTI 16V Big Bumper is king. (Owned x2 Mk1’s, x4 Mk2’s). Still rolling in a 1989 Mk2, with 60k on the clock. Love it. You need the PAS. Mk1 too harsh, especially on our roads today. Mk2 just glides. The Mk2 earring VW advert was spot on, still no creaks or rattles.
Very interesting review Jack thanks for that, 2 absolute classic cars, both with pluses and minuses! For your bad back I'd go for the hard seats of the Vw myself!
I remember the 80s so well , the RS 1600i, Rs Turbo , XR3is , Astra GTEs , never had the money at the time plus i only spent time in the Golf GTI and RS1600i both rocket ships at the time compared to my daily driver in the 80s a 72 MGB Roadster bought for £1500 .Of the two i think i would go with the Golf , never a fan of french cars , but still prefer a white Escort RS Turbo for looks
Escort rs turbo series one all day long
The 205s interior is way superior to the golfs. It's design looks Cyberpunk-esque and the ergonomics is great too. The seats are really great. Got a '94 1.1l Forever
Peugeot any day. But for 5k, Renaultsport Clio 197 with a Brembo upgrade, true it's a decade later but if you are looking for thrills on a budget, mine was a 97 with a Cup Chassis, but so reliable and felt solid, handling was fantastic, 197HP with unbelievable braking. Supercars could pass on the straights but on a twisty B road... One of the few cars I regret selling and surely a future classic
Great car but already something you have to drive pretty quick to get thrills. The beauty of the 205 is you don’t have to be going that quickly to have fun
205 Hands Down
Had a sorrento green 89 1.6 205, now i have a 2.0 8v mk2 and 16v mk2 golf; have my ear to the ground and if i find my old pug i will buy it back in a hearbeat 👌👍only car i have lost it in several times and not crashed 😁
Love these comparisons!!
Other hot hatches to compare, I'd love to see a the Alfasud Renault 5gt, Williams clio, 106 Rallye 306 Rallye and integra typeR, 182 Trophy.
All fantastic cars but which ones the best????
Would love to try a Sud and 5GT !!
@@Number27
I can recommend the Williams clio.
It's a joy to drive.
I've owned a Mk1, and driven a few 205's and I'd agree the 205 is better. Comparing it to a Mk2 would be pointless as they do feel so much heavier compared with the Mk1. Personally my favourite of the era is the Uno Turbo I.E., my friend had an MI16 205 and he regularly saw the back of it. Still love the little hatches, I daily a Clio 182 :)
The Peugeot is clearly superior in every way. I think a fairer comparison would've been the 16v Mk2 Golf tbh. My mate had an 8v Mk2 when I had a 205 back in the day. My 205 was way quicker in a straight line and in the bends though.
Well, he owns the 205 so no surprises which car he thinks is better. In any case, the Golf is a 1970s car, the 205 a 1980s car. Things had moved on between 1976 and 1986 so it's obvious.
sniffing out the apex, needs to be a Tshirt
The corolla GT was the best because it was RWD, it made my 205gti feel like it was stapled together. 205gti was fun though, going sideways around corners in it made me want a RWD.
Yep.. built pretty badly these!!
There are metal clips that secure the handbrake cables to the tank on ebay under citroen zx handbrake clips which will stop them hanging down like yours are
Clips are there but it keeps falling out! Now fixed
Nice to see these cars offering nice performance and good visibility in their original designs. The successors of each model became somewhat overweight with less visibility due to Euro crash legisilations. Although.neither car would be my choice . The Alfasud, although not originally a hatchback and not so engine efficient being on carbs not fuel injected offered better steering feel, throttle response ,.nicer gearchange and a connection to the road which neither Golf or Puggy could get near. The 1st Golf Gti's had notoriously bad brakes for its performance with a spongy pedal feel. On paper these were both faster and more economical than the Alfasud but there the comparison ends. If it was a hatchback,.I'd choose a Fiat Abarth 130tc which was a "riot" of car . Nice vid.
Thanks for watching Martin!
You can learn to lift off oversteer to your advantage. Remember not to lift mid bend in a 205!
Funnily I never found it a problem in my 1.6. Only car I've spun unintentionally was my Imp, and that involved an oil spill on an M3 off-ramp.
I always remembered to lift off mid bend, it was the best thing about the car, chuckle chuckle.
Different class as Peugeot 305 ultimate Golf GTI competitor as opposed to 205 being a VW Polo competitor - great comparison though as best GTI I think the Peugeot wins hands down as such a playful car
Ahhh nostalgia 😂 I owned two 1.6GTi’s. loved them because - raw, rewarding and random LOOS🤪😂😂😂😂
Classics, thanks
Are we all forgetting the MK1 Chrysler/Talbot Sunbeam Lotus that came out FIRST !!!!
It WAS the FIRST 'Hot hatch' !