Pastor Reacts to Mike Winger | "When to be scared you are NOT a genuine Christian"
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Is @MikeWinger correct that we should be a little scared that we aren't genuine Christians? !!! This video is not to degrade the man, but we desire to point out the error in the teaching !!!
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Mike Winger Video: • When to be scared you'...
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#mikewinger #genuinefaith #saved #bibleline #salvation #soteriology #genuinechristian #ephesians #truth #response #responsevideo
Thank you so much for treating a brother in error as a brother, not mocking, but in love. I'll be praying for his understanding. :)
Yes absolutely. There’s a right way to do these things, and many UA-camrs do it incorrectly. We don’t only want to win arguments. We want to reach souls.
- Trent
@@BibleLine Amen! Yours was quite different than most I’ve seen. You were very calm as you pointed out the errors with love and humility and presented the truth from the Bible. You truly reflected the Spirit of Christ. (Not saying that’s why I believe you’re a Christian tho!) 😉
Haha! Thank you.
- Trent
Bibleline or lies about Bible
Listen to what Mike said closely at 3:35 and then recognize this man’s intentional misinterpretation…
The more one trusts and stand on the word of God, the more peace that comes. People just seem to think that God needs our help to keep saved and justified and righteous. Thank you Jesse, you're awesome, Brother!
I am going to pray for Mr. Winger.
I'm sure he appreciates your prayers. Mike Winger is a strong Christian brother. This video is nonsense.
@@DaisyDayz1I love my brother Mike Winger.....but he is not being clear hear and as Christians its very important to be clear.
Why not pray for truth rather. What makes you so sure is that mike is wrong ? I suggest you pray that you understand it properly because its a matter of life and death. Mike, Washer, MacArthur, Vodie, Allen Parr and many other good bible teachers are all on the same page regarding this topic. maybe this gentleman who made this video does not understand them or is getting it wrong. I suggest that while praying for Mike you pray for discernment because praying for Mike sounds a bit self righteous. Like i challenged the person who made this video, maybe give Mie a call and have a brother to brother conversation. Imagine paul challenging Peter without having dealt with Peter directly first. Not great for so called brothers in Christ
@@donovanlangeveldt5494 I'm sure you know but there are ALOT of great Bible teacher who disagree with all the men you mentioned in your comment. I would be one who disagrees with them as well and Mike Winger would disagree about their reformed interpretation of scripture. 😇
@@donovanlangeveldt5494. If your a. Christian - you will be chastened . You are arrogant and self righteous . If you’re not disciplined then maybe. You’re fooling yourself . Job 5:17 Jeremiah 31:18 and of course Hebrews 12:6. All the men you mentioned. Are in error . They are doctrinally in complete error . I know about the chastening of the Lord . If you judge yourself. Than you can avoid chastisement 1 Corinthians 11 verse 31-32. . Hope you humble yourself . If your one of the Lords. - he. Will. Correct you .
"When to be scared you are NOT a genuine Christian"? Before you believe the gospel.
...and after you hear "depart from me, I never knew you"
Shared the Good News with a child who attends a Christian school. He told me that 1 John 5:13 was the complete opposite of what his friends and teachers have taught him. "They tell me that you can't know and even if you could it would be better to be surprised." Praising God that he now knows 100% for sure that he could never be lost! Thank you for your ministry and continued clarity on Grace!
That’s amazing! Thank you for sharing and supporting!!
- Trent
l have just discovered this channel. It's so refreshing. The gospel shows the goodness of God, in that it's completely free for undeserving sinners. l remember the day l got saved. It was so liberating that l was an emotional wreck the whole day. From that moment my perception of God changed. Scriptures like "The LORD is merciful and gracious" hit different.
Thank you Thomas!
- Trent
"But to him that worketh not, but beleiveth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness". Rom.4:5
Amen!
Amen🙏
What’s the difference between an inheritance and a gift?
Is salvation a gift, or an inheritance?
Gift@@jeffreypaulross9767
Amen!
Thank you. I'm crying...
Sure thing Freya! I’m so happy that this was a blessing to you.
- Trent
I remember watching him around three years ago and he was talking about how he doesn't know yet if eternal security is true or not. And I was like, why are you teaching the bible if you don't know basic doctrine.
I remember coming across the same thing with him when asked if salvation could be lost he basically just said he did not know or wasn't sure. If one doesn't know for sure if they are eternally saved, then anything they teach will be tainted with works or performance to some degree as it is their own self would be their measuring stick instead of Christ alone.
Yikes! You’re both right. And James very clearly calls out teachers as having a greater judgment.
I do pray that Mike somehow understand the truth one of these days. Thanks guys
- Trent
He is not allowed to be unsure.
I can’t explain what this teaching from you and Pastor Tom Cucuzza has taught. I have so much respect for Mike Winger but you’re right, this was confusing. I encourage you to send this to him and have a discussion with him about it. He’s a humble guy and I do think he would adjust his thinking about this as I have.
@rosieds4996 thank you so much! We actually had another person reach his personal assistant with our video. They returned with his verse by verse through Romans, claiming we misunderstand his teachings. I think it is very clear the confusion of his video that we reacted to. We pray he changes his mind on this! Thank you
- Trent
Please keep these kinds of videos up! This was SO HELPFUL and affirming to me!! I was also in tears watching. God bless you for teaching the truth!!
We do appreciate the positive feedback. We wanted to make these in attempt to attack the teach-ING not the teach-ER.
Thanks so much. We’ll make more.
- Trent
@@BibleLine And that you did, very well!
amen...
James 2:10 torpedoes any notion that "sinning less" justifies or proves a "genuine conversion" because if you kept the entire Law, but offend in one point; you become DEBTOR TO IT ALL. This is why we must have Christ's righteousness imparted to us through faith. This happens to every believer who trusts Christ's complete and full payment on our behalf.
Good video here.
Well said. Thank you!
- Trent
Thanks, Jesse. Mike Winger is very effective and very likeable, but he defines repentance as turning from sin... And he considers this as a requirement to be saved...
Hey Kees!
Thank you so much. So many a preacher misdefines that word!!
- Trent
Amen!! Clear as day!!
Thank you!!
- Trent
Excellent video!
I love this style of video, and believe it to be so very helpful to those who have been confused by such "teachers".
Thank you so much for always speaking the truth boldly, and in love with much integrity!
I love these kinds of videos too. They helped me out of Calvinism.
Thanks Allyson! We have more to come!!
- Trent
@@elizabethl3323
I'm so happy you have been set free from the oppression of Calvinism!
Northland Bible Church, Pastor Tom Cucuzza, is also wonderful and "affiliated" with this ministry.
Thank you so much for clarifying this, I've watched Mike a few times, he seems like a great guy, but something didn't sit right with me, you're spot on, we should not be mislead and be in the "scary zone" UA-cam is filled with people that try to confuse us. Thanks again brother, God bless, Sheree
I'm glad you addressed this video. I came from Calvinism/Lordship and stopped watching Winger.
Absolutely!! Thanks for supporting us. We’ll do similar videos in the future.
- Trent
@@BibleLine you've been in my feed a lot and I just started watching you after my Pastor said you're safe. I'm a lot more careful of who I listen to since leaving Lordship. I'm happy God has given me another good teacher. God bless you and your family.❤️🙏❤️
Oh how very cool!! What is your pastor’s name? We love having connections to other clear ministries. God bless you too!
- Trent
I have just been going to a church in my country that listens to a lot of Winger's content and they seem to hold him as a good Bible teacher. Winger has a nice personality, he is spot on with some topics of the Bible, but his lordship theology is all messed up. I was in lordship stuff also. Such a pressure and burden to "prove your salvation" by works all, of, the, time! No wonder i became miserable and crashed after many years in it. Thanks to God He still restores His children when they err badly as I did.
Super glad to hear about the state you are in now, sis :) May God bless your week ahead
Excellent video reaction. Mike seems to be confused himself so in effect he is just confusing others. Thank you for being clear. You knocked this one of the park.
Thanks Drew.
- Trent
Thank you for this!!! May God bless you and your ministry
Sure thing! Thank you for supporting us! God bless you.
- Trent
I’m so glad I don’t have to wonder “uh oh does Mike Winger think I’m saved??” I’m so glad my salvation rests on Christs work ALONE and not what some other sinner thinks of me. Fruit inspectors (I was one many years ago) turn so many people away from the gospel. Of course though the real gospel is one of faith alone in Christ.
“Fruit inspectors.” I like that.
I like that .I don't want to be a fruit inspector
Great teching. Thank you.
My biggest question is why is that people want to judge others salvation?
Reminds me of this quote i read....when we are more concerned of others sins then our own, we have lost sight of the meaning of the gospel.
I really enjoy this style of video and hope you make more!
We have some we’re in the process of getting recorded, so look forward to more!! Thank you
- Trent
As believers, we are sealed until the day of redemption. Period. I was listening to Dr Michael Brown today and he was saying we can walk away or continue in sin and forfeit our salvation. I guess they don’t believe we are sealed then.
Right on. That’s a stronghold portion of scripture! If you can lose salvation, then God is a liar.
- Trent
Pastor, thank you for the clarification and reading of the correct translation. Many people who speak about biblical meaning use modern translations which can obviously cause confusion.
I pray that this series can shine a light on discrepancies in teachings and point people towards the TRUE and LIVING God.
Praying Mike Winger understands the simplicity in Christ Jesus and no longer teaches in error. Way too many people getting caught up in those false teachings...
2 Corinthians 11:3 KJV
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Galatians 1 6-7 KJV
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
That’s right! We don’t hate the man, but we hate the false teaching!!
- Trent
And we are to withdraw ourselves from those who teach wrong doctrines (1 Timothy 6:3-5 KJV)
I Love Bibleline ❤God Bless em Teaching Truth. Gospel 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Thanks Gary!
- Trent
Thank you for clarifying Mr. Winger.
Thank you, Pastor Jesse, for using the KJV and encouraging others to use it also!
Great job Jessie
Thank you so much!
- Trent
Mike Winger has a good heart,he just doesn't rightfully divide the scriptures so he's very confused most of the time
Agreed. He could have an impact if he got the gospel correct!
- Trent
Mike Winger looks confused most of the time. He had a video where he was confused about exactly how much works is needed to prove you are saved. He said something about maybe a little and questioned how much works shows you are saved. He posts hours long videos pontificating.
He is ultimately saying that no Christian can have an assurance of salvation unless they are perfect. Because we all sin. Even him.
My favorite 4 teachers have been John Barnett from DTBM, Robert Breaker, Andy Woods, and Gene Kim. Now I have a fifth. You're nailing it man. Love you brother.
Thanks Ian. We’ll check those guys out!
- Trent
@@BibleLinewell count John Barnett from DTBM off the list.. Never seen him teach works salvation before but he posted a video earlier today that only true disciples of Jesus go to heaven. Super heavy works within. Breaks my heart.
@@ianhelgerson6146 DTBM has been very subtle with the works-based salvation. DTBM will talk out both sides of mouth and will backload works to salvation to prove or provide evidence that you are truly saved. Typical modern day pharisees trying to hide in plain sight.
He is another Calvary Chapel taught pastor . I see a pattern from this church . I attended one , until I heard the wrong doctrine . Proof - turn from your sins for salvation . Calvary. I believe uses ESV . This is what I heard before I said enough . Please do one on the horrible self righteous Ray Comfort /. Living waters .
Thank you so much for your clear explanations using scripture. It seems like he is constantly fighting the truth he is being convicted of as he talks. Like his own mind goes "error" but he doesn't stop but continues onward into confusion. This is so frustrating to watch. I really think many who have set themselves up as teachers (or Satan did) should not be teachers... That they need to be in the benches learning, not teaching.
Appreciate the nice comment. You’re absolutely right.
- Trent
Another great video!
Thank Pastor Jesse and I love your teaching the true gospel along with Ralph Yankee Arnold. I am a ordained minister but struggle with sin so I do not teach or preach because of this struggle with lust sin. So thank you for all you do. I hope and pray my carnal desires go away.
Tune in to this series we started. It’s helped me (Trent here), and I think it will help you.
Why Do I Need Personal Standards? 01
ua-cam.com/users/liveSOHfUiKvAnY?feature=share
It’s a Wednesday night series. We stream Wed @6:30 PM EST
I pray you gain victory with the Lord in your struggle over sin.
- Trent
Amen Brother
I loved Pastor Mike but this video really got me back when I saw it.
Good message
Thank you!
- Trent
Great analysis, could you provide a video on the Church Split refuting once saved always saved?
Can you be more specific?
- Trent
I'm confused because I don't know what the truth is anymore because FreeGracers say one thing, Lordship salvation people say another thing, the delineation of how to be saved and receive eternal life is disputed on both ends, and I don't know where I stand with God. If it's that easy to just believe how do I know if I TRULY believe? How much faith do I need to believe, will that faith in the Gospel waver from time to time? And once a person believes in Christ and becomes a Christian, can he/she struggle with sin, committing it over and over, and still be a Christian? If a Christian has truly died to sin and is no longer a slave to sin, does committing the same sin over and over mean they're not saved and is still a slave to sin? I don't see any person who believed in the Old Testament and New Testament who committed habitual sin over and over and over and over and is still saved. And I hear so many conflicting views concerning Romans 7 . . . and what does it mean to walk in the Spirit, and how often do you confess your sin based on that chapter in 1 John and what if you don't confess it and . . . I'm aggravated, angry, tired, depressed, and confused with all this, and I don't know where I stand, I don't know what to believe because there are so many conflicting opinions, and I don't know if I'm really saved, and this is no light matter because this is dealing with eternal life---with heaven and hell. I need help and I'm on my last leg right now. I don't know what else to do. Just believing in Christ sounds too easy yet at the same time it's not because I don't know if I truly believe because my faith is so small surrounded by doubt and anger with God & Jesus. If this confusion and depression and anger is what being a Christian is about, then I don't want it! Where is the joy and peace and confidence I hear other Christians talking about? Is it not meant for someone like me, with the current mire of sin that I'm caught up in, and the feelings that Jesus/God the Father could never accept me?
There is a Soteriology series here and one on the book of Galatians that is very helpful.
I know it is scary to be in the place you're in right now but please spend time listening to free grace teachers like Jesse Martinez (BibleLine) and Yankee Arnold. We are told in scripture we can know if we have eternal life and that anyone who believes in Jesus has it. One of the devils plans is to destroy our confidence in Christ so we don't do anything for the Kingdom of God as saved children of God. Living in fear produces no good fruit. Living trusting that Jesus paid it all on the cross and that payment is on our accounts produces peace and grace in our life and walk.
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Hey Brian,
Here’s a few things that may help.
1) Jesus died for all sin of all time: past, present and future. Romans 3:23-28 makes this clear. Therefore you do not have to do anything in order to pay for your sin on your own. This is true even if you believe then commit more sin.
2) Faith alone in Jesus Christ plus nothing else saves. If you add anything to what Jesus stated (“believe in me” - John 6:47), then he did not need to die. The Lordship view does add works to the gospel (regardless if they are “proof,” it is still adding).
3) Read 1 John 5:10-13 about 10 times. I really want you to think about it. John says clearly how we know we are saved. It’s because we believe in the record that God have his Son. We trust in Jesus at one point in time and we are saved. What is the proof we are saved?? The Word of God. That is the record. Peter puts the Word above his own experience in 2 Peter 1.
4) Easy Believism? This is a common attack by Lordship pastors because they believe it just promotes more sin. Nevertheless, grace promotes a sanctified life. Lordship and legalism promotes more sin because the person is constantly looking to stop sinning by comparing themselves to the law/commands. The law points out the fact that we are sinners (Galatians 3) and that we need a Savior: Jesus.
5) Works are not a prooftext of salvation. The Bible does not support this, but it does support that good works are to be done AFTER salvation. Good works are profitable to others, but they don’t save anyone into eternal life. Therefore using them as a proof of salvation is confusing at best. You would constantly look at yourself rather than Jesus Christ.
I hope this helps. Here’s how you know you’re saved: Have you believed that Jesus Christ died to pay for all you sins, was buried and is risen again?
If so, you’re saved.
See these verses in the KJV
Romans 4:1-5
John 3:15-18, 36
John 5:24 - this one is very clear, even in context.
Feel free to reach out via email too. We could even talk on the phone.
questions@biblelineministries.org
- Trent
@@BibleLine I don't know if just believing in Jesus is all there is. Again it sounds too easy and if I truly believed in Christ, why am I keep returning to the same sin over and over and over? Where's the power over sin and walking in the Spirit because I don't see it in my own life.
@@brianseay8242 after we are saved we have a couple things we should do ever increasingly in order to grow spiritually one get in the bible, study, I recommend 4 hours a day every day, at least, read and study Pauls letters and the book of acts , the other thing we should do is pray to him, open up the lines of communication and grow closer to him Again 3-4 times a day to start, then when you know the word pretty good you have developed prayer life pray to the lord to through the holy spirit help you to put to death some of your fleshly things ,, just my opinion!!
God bless your minestry
Hi Btother,
I just found your ministry a few months ago, and love your teaching.
Watched Macarthur, Piper, Washer, Sproul, sermons for years.
Some were uplifting but many left me in doubt about my salvation.
You have clarified the salvation by Faith alone doctrine, thankyou.
One question, you mentioned a couple of times about Gods chastisement of the unrighteous by early death, sickness etc.
Did i get that right? If so could you explain.
Rob
I agree mike has good motives. But the quote “let me get over here where I know I’m clearly in Christ” is a recipe to 1) looking at your works to justify yourself and 2) becoming self righteous before someone else who struggles.
The lord gifts us with measures of faith and not everyone is going to be as good at defeating certain sin as others. But they may be really strong in their kindness. This is why the Lord had to make it by faith because man truly has does not have a solid capacity to judge.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Paul spoke to believers and said, let not sin dwell in your mortal bodies.
That’s right! John 5:24 is so very clear!
- Trent
Great video!
Lordship salvation is what made me stay away from God for a long time cause I knew I couldn’t be a sin less person or even close to that.
Many have told us this. If we’re honest, we all come to that conclusion. A prideful person says otherwise.
- Trent
God has not given us the spirit of fear but of power, love and a sound mind.
If he didn’t pay for it all. We are all screwed.
Intellectuals have big librarys and apologists also. Mac Arthur all nt5hese calvinist have to intellectualize the simple Gospel message on salvation.🦁
A person can go to church and do good works and at the same time not be saved because they never trusted in Christ alone. That's why you don't judge by person's works, you ask what they believe.
Man you get this
If fear becomes our motivation and fuel for for "good" works which proves that we're saved, then our motivation is off. God doesn't want fearful Christians running His affairs. To be an effective Christian we should have joy from confidence in our salvation and allow the Holy Spirit to work through us which will bear good fruit.
Listen very carefully to how Mike’s words are being misinterpreted and twisted. Mike never says that you are saved by works or that you can lose your salvation through sin. Mike’s point is that works are a demonstration of faith, as it very clearly says in the Bible. Read James 2:14-26. Don’t rely on false teachers who twist the truth. Read the entire Bible for yourself. The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth.
I thought the same. My understanding of Mike Winger’s position has been. we are saved by faith alone - because of that faith, & filled with the Holy Spirit, we do good works.
@@lhale7085 That is exactly right. The Holy Spirit enables us to continually grow in our desire to live our lives in a way that is honoring to Him, which is worship. We are not saved by good works, we are saved FOR good works. Mike Winger is a very good teacher and has many in-depth studies, I highly recommend him. He is very Biblically sound, he does not twist scripture.
Winger makes good works a mandatory part of the believer's justification. And he's somewhat unresolved on eternal security, too. It's subtle and that's why I said over and over that I have heard him give the gospel clearly before. However, it's stuff like what I put in this reaction video that give me second thoughts on what he really believes saves a person. Thanks. - Jesse
@@BibleLineYour misrepresentation of Mike’s position is deliberate and obvious.
Good works are not automatic because we still have the flesh nature…
Good works are a choice.
- Trent
I listen to several UA-cam pastors that preach the truth, as you do, that by believing in Jesus alone saves a person. Recently, one of these pastors said that people must "make a decision" in order to be saved. My question is this. Do you believe that a lost person can make a decision to believe, or, do you think that a lost person can only believe when they have been fully persuaded? I did not choose to believe that two plus two equals four, I was persuaded and I have also been persuaded that Christ died for my sins, was buried and rose again for my justification, apart from myself or my works. Thank you. Looking forward to hearing from you, if possible.
Good question. I would say it’s mostly persuasion, but some people don’t require much in order to just believe it. The Bible talks about “faith as a child.” Kids don’t need much persuasion. Of course, if you’re talking to an Atheist or someone of other faiths, they may need much persuasion. In my personal witnessing it varies widely. I work with people who I’m still trying to persuade, but others just accepted it right off the bat! Regardless, we preach Christ and Him crucified. Thank you!
- Trent
I was in lordship salvation for years. Winger is full on lordshipper when he said those. The main part of Lordship false gospel is this:
'You must not only believe in Jesus Christ but you must submit to His lordship in ALL of your life OR you might not be saved! He is either your Lord of all, or He ain't the Lord at all''
That is 10000% legalism. We must NEVER mix our faith in Jesus and how we live. Jesus ALONE is our righteousness, NOT how we live. We should live in God's will, not sin, but if you do live in sin as a christian it does NOT mean you are not saved, it means... you disobey God and do not follow in discipleship. That is it, never add anything to salvation in Jesus.
This double talk from Winger is just... astounding. If I heard him correctly he said, we are not saved by our works, only by faith in Jesus, but if you are truly saved you will not live in these sins... that is NOT faith alone. That is faith in Jesus PLUS us not living in sin. Galatians 3 and 5 101 right there.
And then people misinterpet Matthew 7, James 2, and Matthe 25... man. James is all about HOW to live, it is not automatic. Matthew 7 has a case wherein people did all kinds of things, they said Lord, Lord, they are self-righteous pharisees, but... they never were known of Jesus and they did not do God's will. What is it? John 6: BELIEVE(Only) in Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved!!
Keep up the amazing work you do for God's glory! Most christendom seems to be, in my experience, in this subtle faith plus works stuff somewhere. The problem is solved when we do not mix how we live with our righteousness, ssnctification, redemption, glorification that is... Jesus ALONE! And even our discipleship is in Jesus, but that abiding in good works is not our salvation, Jesus is
That’s very well said. Thank you for discerning the truth correctly, and thank you for the kind words.
- Trent
I never heard of this guy, but I have heard these things since my salvation. Mike's message makes me nervous. My logical mind says God's plan of salvation is so simple a child understands it. Why does certain a teacher or preacher struggle with it. I have heard it put like this: there was a boatman and two theologians in a boat, and one was arguing that salvation was by faith and the other by works. The boatman listened and then said, "Let me tell you how it looks to me." Suppose I call this oar Faith and this one Works. If I pull on this one, the boat goes around; if I pull on this other one, it goes around the other way; but if I pull on both oars, I get you across the river.That might do if we were going to Heaven in a rowboat, but we are not. We are carried on the shoulders of the Shepherd, who came seeking lost sheep When He finds them He carries them home on His shoulders.-Harry Ironside.
Yes, we should not confuse the fact that salvation is only trusting in the finished work of Christ. Mike frustrates the grace of God, but we pray he understands the truth.
- Trent
Read James 2:14-26. Faith without works is dead. Works do not save you, we obey out of love and worship. Works are a demonstration of our faith.
Three issues I have with this position
- you have abdicated your free will, cannot walk away
- you can serve two masters ignoring one loving the other
- you remain saved without ongoing faith
- you rest in your affirmation that you believe but it is the Spirit that bears witness with our spirit not me saying so
- the fact that someone doesn’t know to explain their own position or the Bible correctly doesn’t by default make you right case and point Manichean Gnostics
- why would Christ the Vine cut anyone off for not producing good fruits? Or why accept a branch that won’t produce fruits when he just cut off the branch that didn’t produce fruits. It’s all by faith.
- Israel was saved out of Egypt but never made it to Canaan …
This was soooo good. Just been through a study of James looking at it as a whole. Yes about useless faith that profits no one!
With 1 Corinthians 6 that lists those who will not inherit the kingdom of God, this is where context matters. Notice what comes before this in 1 Corinthians 6 . "Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, DARE to go to law BEFORE THE UNRIGHTEOUS, and not BEFORE THE SAINTS? Or do you not know that the SAINTS will judge the world? And if the world is judged by YOU, are YOU not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? Do you not know that WE will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? If then you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you APPOINT THEM JUDGES who are of NO ACCOUNT IN THE CHURCH? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who be able to decide between his brethren, but brother goes to LAW with brother and that before UNBELIEVERS." Paul calls the Corinthians believers, saints. He calls those who are unbelievers unrighteous. He wants to know why they are going to the unrighteous with their lawsuits against one another. His point in verse 9 is that these unbelieving unrighteous people will not inherit the kingdom of God. They need to stop going outside of the church to settle these matters with unrighteous unbelieving judges. Those who are not believers are not saints. People who are saved are called Saints. People who are lost are called different names: they are called by the sin they practice....fornicators, thieves, idolaters, etc.
Gal 5:
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Yes.
Have you believed in Jesus Christ for the payment of your sins?
- Trent
"They're saved but you can barely tell"
You cannot tell that anyone is saved. There are believers who do good works and vice versa, and there are unbelievers who do good works and vice versa. People cant see another person's faith, only evidence of it (good works).
Good video.
I think sometimes I have questions mainly because of the 2 nd chapter of James. So many teachers use James 2. Faith without works are dead. Can faith save him?
James 2 starts out with how the assembly of believers are showing favoritism to those that were rich and not the poor in the same assembly. Basically the same behavior practiced outside their church meetings. But he then says Can faith save you? Not just discipleship but “can faith save him?” And justified by deeds….he then uses Abraham’s belief was shown by his actions. The same example Paul used except Paul clearly teaches faith alone deeds don’t save. Jesus Christ said the works of God were to believe in Jesus who God had sent. Ok so after all my life of assurance these social media teachers got me double checking and it’s divisive. God help me I have friends that will ask about this.
Would like to see more of this style! Helps a lot
We have more on the way!
- Trent
Sometimes im confident that I’m saved and I’m believing in the right thing and then at other times I’m confused and concerned that I’m tricking myself into thinking I’m saved. I think I got saved when I was 10, but I can’t tell for sure because in middle school I drifted so far from God and was very ignorant of the Bibles teachings. From 6th grade I was away from him, but 7th-8th I was following God, praying again and reading the Bible daily. Until 9th-10th I completely ignored God and even denied Him infront of my ‘friends’ because I was terrified of being judged. It wasn’t until last October (jr year) that I decided to follow Jesus again, I repented and started being consistent on my walk with him. I’m just concerned that Jesus will deny me because I denied Him In front of people before.
Pastor Jesse you did a great job on this piece. Ok this lines up with a write up that I just posted last night. Winger clearly does not understand salvation, service, and eternal security. He is dispensing fear and not faith in Christ alone. He is actually teaching the P in Tulip and of course Lordship salvation. I pray that the video makes it to Winger.
This is the write up.
"A new Christian needs to be prayed over and encouraged not picked apart, critiqued or criticized. I have actually heard someone say after I had told them that so and so got saved, their response was “I hope it sticks”. This is when I first came to the faith, so I did not know how to respond. Now, obviously this person believes in a works and the loss of salvation, which is not biblical. We have to pray and not pick apart the new convert. They should grow by reading the Word of God and have a mature brother or sister in Christ to help navigate their way through spiritual adolescence. There are times things will get worse for the new believer because their flesh is in rebellion. They need reassurance and grace shown to them. They need to understand some basic spiritual truths, one of them is they need to understand that their sin nature is still intact, and that they also have a divine nature, the Holy Spirit that resides on the inside. It is not for us to fruit inspect and judge that new babe in Christ. Lets show grace and give this person space to grow in Christ.
Romans 15:1-2
1¶We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
2Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification."
That’s very well stated. Keep up the good work, and thanks for the support!
- Trent
@BibleLine Thanks brother ! Glory Be To God!!
Don't fully agree with all of your content, but I appreciate the points you make in this video.
Thank you so much for bringing clarity & restoring my reassurance of salvation. I had to stop listening to Mike a few years ago for although he claims not to be Calvinist he still tends to teach that we should live in fear, *lest we fall into sin and think we are still saved*..... which simply engendered fear & misery and feelings of "Who'd be a Christian!" I know he means well but Mike seems to believe in the 'God-of-the-big-stick' who's just watching & waiting to pounce when I trip up (preaching to you too Paul Washer!) - thay way misery & madness lie!😱
Praise the Lord. That’s encouraging to us!
- Trent
Hey Pastor Jesse, I love your channel and how you explain biblical teachings on grace and faith. Could you react to Kingdom Theology his video on "I NEVER KNEW YOU....." I can't remember the words after "YOU" in his title. He doesn't agree with free grace. He believe you must remain to stay saved. He talked about the hypocrisy free gracers in one of his short. His teachings are subtle. He said that Jesus death on cross is not a past transaction but if you embrace in him now you are saved by obeying. Thank you Brother in Christ in your ministry. Your biblical teaching has helped me tremendously. The bible makes sense on the doctrine solteriology free grace through faith in the Christ.
“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.”
John 15:2
“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.”
John 15:4-6
The whole context of this passage is Jesus speaking to His disciples. It has nothing to do with salvation/eternal life.
@@crazylegs1324 hi crazylegs! Yes, Jesus is teaching his disciples that no one can bear fruit without Jesus! If you are truly in Jesus, you will bear fruit. When you are born again of spirit, you will bear fruit. I am not saying we become perfect, but we will not be practicing sin. Key word is practicing! When Jesus talks about branches with no fruit(not abiding in christ) being thrown into the fire, what do you reckon he is talking about?
I don’t mean to start any arguments, but am happy to discuss in peace and love! Thank you for your response :)
@@JHC7-k3m of course!
You are correct that we are born again of spirit. However as Paul said to the Corinthians. We must choose to walk in the spirit. It doesn’t come naturally. Being a disciple of Jesus is a daily choice. Believing in Jesus for salvation is a one time event that eternally secures you. Jesus is clear that Salvation comes through belief in Him alone.
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”
John 6:47 KJV
Discipleship is about bringing God glory and nothing else. One who bears much fruit only proves that he/she is being a good disciple.
“Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.”
John 15:8 KJV
It is not proof of salvation. Judas was a good disciple until he betrayed Jesus. However he was not a believer. If someone is not bearing fruit it does not prove he/she is not a believer. It proves they are walking in the flesh and not being a disciple at that particular moment. The branch being thrown into the fire is about useless branches being used as tinder for fire. It’s not about being thrown into hell. If it were that would be a contradiction to John 6:47 among other verses and it would mean bearing fruit (good works) gets you into heaven (which we know isn’t true). There’s no such thing as practicing sin. Sin is sin. Sin is the transgression of Gods law. One sin makes you guilty of all. One sin sends you to hell. Not practicing sin. The King James Version makes no mention of “practicing” sin. It’s simple. There’s sinners and there’s sinners who have Christ’s imputed righteousness through belief in Him.
@@crazylegs1324 hey! Thank you so much for your civil response, I truly appreciate it :) I absolutely agree that works can not save us! Although, what Jesus is saying works will naturally follow if you have true saving faith and are born of spirit. We can not bear fruit on our own! I don’t think Jesus would talk about branches being used as timber as that does not teach or relate to anything. This is not the first time Jesus talks about things being thrown into the fire :) Also, sin is sin, yes, but ti practice means doing it willingly habitually.
“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 NKJV
To summarize, good works can not save you, but if you have true saving faith, works will come naturally. Faith without works is dead. All of these match what Jesus is saying in book of John in my opinion! This does not mean I don’t sin. It means that I do not willingly sin. I am overtaken at times and I get mad, impatient, and slander in my heart, but I do not willingly do these. It is true my carnal nature wants these things, but I do not willingly practice sin! I hope this makes sense! Even the devil believes in God and Jesus :)
Thank you again for your civil response :)
@@JHC7-k3m
Just need to point something out. The KJV is the only version that is not corrupted.
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which DO such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
Galatians 5:19-21 KJV
Notice how instead of “practice” it says “do”. Jesus makes no distinction between “practicing” sin and just sinning. All sin is equal. All sin separates us from God. All sin is done willfully. If you decide to get upset with someone and scream at them instead of immediately forgiving them you are willfully sinning. If you look at girl with lust you’ve committed adultery in your heart. If you’ve ever been upset with a brother or hated him even for just 1 second you have committed murder in your heart. If you’ve told even 1 lie you are a liar. If you’ve ever put anything before God in your life you are an idol worshiper. Everything is done by choice. Christians willfully sin every day. Sin is the transgression of Gods law.
“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”
1 John 3:4 KJV
Any sin you commit makes you just as bad as the Christian who is sleeping around and fornicating and getting drunk. It’s all the same in Gods eyes. There is no such category for willful sin. There’s sin and there’s righteousness. We cannot be righteous. We must believe on Jesus to be made righteous. Our good works are for being profitable to men. James 2 is about having a profitable faith. “Faith without works is dead” means uselessness and unprofitable. That’s why James says “what doeth it profit?”. “Can faith save him” is in reference to the previous verse about Gods earthly judgement on us for dealing with people in an unmerciful way. Titus 3:8 backs my point up.
“This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.”
Titus 3:8 KJV
We must maintain good works to be profitable to men and lead them to Christ. It is not required to be saved or prove we are saved. If works don’t save us how can they be proof of salvation?
John 15 branches being thrown into fire is not talking about souls being thrown into hell. It’s about if you’re not abiding in Christ and you’re not bearing fruit you are useless and cannot be a disciple. HOWEVER. You are STILL saved because you BELIEVED. The whole passage of John 15 is Jesus talking to the 12 disciples He chose. He makes it clear that they are believers so how can they be thrown into hell if they don’t bear fruit?
“Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.”
John 15:3 KJV
“Clean” means they have believed and had their sins washed away. They are saved and are now being instructed on how to be good disciples.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:15 KJV)
We are saved even if our works are all burnt up.
“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,”
Romans 4:5-6 KJV
The scripture is abundantly clear that our faith/belief is counted for righteousness and how we live cannot change that. Again I reiterate, how can works be evidence of salvation of works do not save? If works came naturally then Paul wouldn’t have to tell the carnal Christians who are babes in Christ to walk in the spirit and not the flesh. Paul is also saying that all sin (the works of the flesh) sends you to hell. He’s not saying if you commit one of those sins you’re going to Hell.
I have a question because i have a hard time understanding 1Co 3. If someone beileve in Jesus, yet still be carnal as you mentioned refering to 1Co 3, can one believe in Jesus and be a homosexual at the same time be saved? Hopefuly you see this comment and thank you in advance for the answer.
Edit: also if someone believed once at one point then became an atheist, are they still saved since they believed, that they just followed their carnal desires? If the answer is not saved, does that mean we can lose our salvation? This is not to debate, i just want some answers.
Those are great questions. Essentially you are asking: Can a person believe in Christ, and then can that person totally reject God, become atheist, homosexual, or dabble in something totally apostate from the truth?
The answer is yes. They CAN - key word is CAN. They SHOULD NOT.
Jesus did for all sin, so any sin the believer does after being saved (becoming apostate and going those routes is sin) is still paid. Jesus made an eternal payment, and the believer receives eternal life the moment he believes. Do we have eternally saved atheists? Yes, I know some. Do we have eternally saved homosexuals? Yes, I know some. Do we have eternally saved apostates? Yes, even the Bible mentions some: Demas, Hymenaeus, Philetus and Alexander.
The believer can never lose salvation. Read John 10:28-30, John 5:24, and John 6:37-40 - in the context also. We are secure forever, and this will never change because we trust in Christ; not ourselves.
These sins SHOULD NOT be committed by the believe (even though the possibility remains) because there is a loss for the believer. Rewards, blessings, physical life, witnessing efforts, being used by God and much more can be lost because the believer is dabbling in sin. His dabbling in sin can cause GREAT HARM to multitudes. He could lead others to reject the gospel message! This would be a tragedy. Nonetheless, salvation is never on the list of loss for the knuckleheaded (or ignorant) believer.
- Trent
If the "but such were some of you" refers to the "the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom" then there is a problem. Weren't they ALL unrighteous prior to believing the gospel??
Oh for sure they were all unrighteous. The believers are the only ones who are washed, sanctified and justified. Yes, it’s only by believing the gospel. And it’s for all.
- Trent
@@BibleLine then what is the verse saying? What exactly were the some and what were the rest of them?
@@riverflows2690 get what you’re getting at. Why would it say “such were SOME of you” if the “such were” is referring to unrighteousness. Because yes everyone was unrighteous before Christ so according to Trent’s interpretation “some of you” should not be in there
@@mccallmemaybe_ exactly what I meant
Ahh I gotcha. I see the point of contention now. I think he says “some” because of the list of sin that precedes. Some of that group may not be fully involved in that entire list, and others more. I don’t think this can be extrapolated to any point in defense of Mike’s teachings (if that is what you’re hinting at). I don’t believe it “shouldn’t be there,” but it seems pretty clear that the main point is these individuals are now justified, etc… He calls them justified in spite of their wickedness. He is trying to stir them up into remembrance of what he preached to them in the beginning. You ARE justified THEREFORE stop doing this wickedness.
- Trent
there was one guy who was sleeping with his mother in law yet was still saved
He never said you wouldn’t have those desires anymore…. He said you won’t continue on sinning to the same degree you would if you had no belief at all.
Such a proclamation is still false. You never rid of or change your flesh nature just because you believed in Christ. You can sin to the same degree, but there is chastening for such sin.
- Trent
This is where I get confused. You will know them by their fruits? Does this mean because we are saved the Holy Spirit is working in us and sanctifying us ongoing? We are the light of the world? We are the salt but if the salt loses its saltiness it is fit for nothing? The parables I think addresses this. So by grace through faith saves us, but in Matthew 24 it says those endure to the end will be saved? Or, stay in the race to win the prize? Please clear this up, thanks
Great video! I love this style of video i’d encourage y’all to keep making these reactions. It’s sad that creators like Mike Winger get hundreds of thousands of views. And it’s sad because Mike Winger is so close to preaching the true gospel yet so far away…
I appreciate the feedback. Editing this was a task!! We do have more in the folder. I pray that Mike finds the truth. He’s a very like-able person, and he could affect many with the truth. Thanks again.
- Trent
Great video.
Mike Winger uses whatever version he feels like, and will sometimes give his own custom translation. This is the problem with those who reject the KJB, they make themselves the final authority.
Good point. Other translations are dangerous in many ways.
- Trent
11Cor cht 5 v 17
I've been using translations other than the KJV for over 40 years. Guess what? I'm STILL not my own final authority.@@BibleLine
How does Mike know he's saved? Is he relying on the evidence in his life? I used to follow Mike and I remember him saying he wasn't sure if once saved always saved is true?
Those are serious questions that he needs to be able to answer. He will never truly KNOW unless he heeds to the true understanding of by grace through faith plus nothing. This is very sad.
- Trent
He is not concerned about the true line of Scripture the Mesoretic Hebrew OT & the Greek NT from Antioch where we get the Majority text from hence the Textus Receptus.
Which by the way the King James Bible is based off... He is more concerned about wanting people to hear what he has to say and what he thinks rather than what the word of God truly says.
That is dangerous and not how a child of God should learn the Bible.... Scripture upon Scripture is how we learn, we let the Holy Spirit guide us unto all truth.
Hey Tommi!
That’s right! I was studying repentance today and the KJV does an excellent job in differentiating between the Greek words from the root metanoeo. Other versions surely cause a huge mix up.
Pray Mike does understand the truth of the gospel. He may be very genuine in his attempt, but he clearly lacks the knowledge of what the scripture actually says. Thanks brother.
- Trent
Amen, Tommy!
I was studying about contentment in all situations we find ourselves in.
The Lord impressed upon me how the word fits neatly together.
Each book, chapter, and verse come together like a beautiful symphony that creates the song of total and unending love of our Father!
Makes you wonder if he has doubt in his own salvation by the way he's talking. Mike Winger is clearly giving a mixed "gospel" that is no gospel at all.
Exactly! It’s is only by grace through faith!
- Trent
Thank you so much for this inspiring video I found very helpful. Came across your videos today and I subscribed. Many blessings to you on yout station. This was helpful.
Thank you so much!!
- Trent
Hmm I'd just add that Paul said all children of God are chastened so, I really don't think we live certain ways to avoid chastisement in my current understanding.
Also I'd like to know what everybody thinks chastisement is. I don't think it's God killing believers.
Based off my own experience, I think it's actually unpleasant experiences that point you to Christ being your only hope and righteousness but eventually leading you to realize your identity as a saint.
That's why the scripture says
11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
I would like your view on what Jesus said: "You will know them by their fruit" in relation to this video.
Sure thing. The context surrounding that statement is regarding false teachers. You know false teachers by what they teach. It isn’t referring to knowing if people are saved by how much fruit they bear. If you want a detailed explanation, I can do that as well.
- Trent
@BibleLine Appreciate your time to reply. I would say that is true, the direct context was towards false teachers, but it most certainly appears to have a more universal application. Jesus further says: "every good tree bears good fruit, every bad tree bears bad fruit."
I actually struggle with this, as I don't believe works save and I am more inclined to your position than Mike's. However I don't think Mike said that a saved person suddenly becomes righteous. I think he said "sin to lesser degrees." I don't think it's possible for a Christian to live however they want, willingly and deliberately denying God, as a lifestyle. Even a carnal Christian who struggles, is struggling. Maybe because they struggle they even ignore God and walk away from Him, as part of their stuggle. I believe God will discipline them......Sorry it's hard to be concise discussing this in text. I *would* appreciate if you discuss further. I am trying to get a better handle on this myself.
I totally understand you. The point that triumphs over this entire thing is that Jesus died for ALL sin. Therefore if a person believes then willfully, deliberately, ignorantly, selfishly, secretly, or whatever adverbs you desire - SINS - they are still saved. Why? The sin is PAID IN FULL. The consequence of that sin? Chastening and loss of blessing/reward.
Mike is conflating salvation with discipleship and this is extremely dangerous.
- Trent
KJV IS THE BIBLE!! No doubt there!!
Here is the problem: the free grace movement is contrary to the beliefs of the apostolic fathers, such as Polycarp, Clement, and Ignatius (we have their writings with us), as well as the teachings of the early church (Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, etc), the medieval church fathers (Thomas Aquinas, Palamas, etc), proto-protestants (Wycliffe, Hus, etc), reformers (Calvin, Luther, Knox, Zwingli, etc), down through Edwards, Spurgeon, and on up unto the near present day. The free grace movement didn't even begin to take off until the 1980s. So when arguing over who is better interpreting scripture, one is arguing from a place of church authority, and the other is not.
Question: I have heard some people telling me that if an beliver loses faith he will go to hell. I know the Eternal Security of the believer is true, but these people lack my assurance. If you could help, thanks.
Hebrews10:38-39 These verses talk about people that have gone back to their old ways and some of them even stopped believing. This was after they got saved. 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; (Hell) but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. There is your answer. Even if you lose your faith somewhere in your life, there is no way you can ever go to Hell. 2nd Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. Jesus said He will never leave you. If you were to go to Hell after you got saved, then Jesus would have to go to Hell with you because He said, "I will never leave you".
@@magicalmike3629 Thank you for the response. It really helped me. I was kinda worried about question. I will pray today and thank God for your blessing response. I'm not mature in the faith so i struggle with these doctrines.
The answer above is solid. Also note the context of Hebrews 10, but also the context of the entire book. The audience is Jewish Believers who are going backwards. The warnings are not loss of salvation, but there is warning of great chastening and displeasure. Never hellfire for the believer.
- Trent
This man is in spiritual prison. All who are in Calvinism are like this. I was like this until Christ freed me from this heresy. I now question if I was even saved back in those days for believing such but this is what is preached and what they show you the scriptures say. The Holy Spirit is trying to tell these people this approach is wrong. They are under conviction and can’t enter his rest until they repent and change how they see Christ in relation to their sin.
Preacher you preach the gospel in a nutshell 🙌
The Line is drawn by Jesus in the parable of the sower. Those who believe for a time but are offended to suffer for Jesus will fall away.
Mike unfortunately teaches more from an Armenian works based ideology and I've never heard him preach a pure grace gospel nor eternal security when you listen close to him there is alot of dbl speak. It's grace by faith but..... Kind of thing..
When one really embraces the gospel, and understands the two natures, books like 1st Corinthians which is like 1st Californians makes sense. A book where saints, were in every way Not living like saints but extraordinarily Carnal that led to severe earthly chastisement for many of them. Saved none the less.
Yeah, he’s said some clear statements before, but teaching like this is terrible confusing. It’s bad also because short “controversial” videos like his video reach a lot of people.
Solid point on the Corinthians. There’s no other way around it! By grace through faith plus NOTHING.
- Trent
@@BibleLine Amen Trent!
"What shall we say then? Shall we go on sinning that grace may abounds? God forbid!" Romans 6:1
God is forbidding us to sin, we must not continue, because there is destruction or punishment for it.
There is punishment, but God never condemns the believer to hell. Works aren’t automatic, and turning from sin is not a requirement to have eternal life. My faith in Jesus Christ for the full payment of my sin is what saved me.
- Trent
@@BibleLine it's not that we must work for our salvation but we must work for our sanctification. Even in Proverbs teaches us not to be sluggard or we'll become poor, spiritually speaking. Also in James "you believe there's one God? Good! Even demons believe that and shudder."
We must urge people to turn away from their sins. In your teaching you're leading people to death. As Paul said to Timothy "rebuke or correct them."
"Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever i have commanded you."
We do teach people to live sanctified lives, but the progressive sanctification process is separate from anything to do with salvation…
We don’t teach Antinomianism or that people can just live it up…. We aren’t leading people to death.
The issue is that YOU probably teach that if a person does not live a sanctified life, THEN they were never saved to begin with. That’s ridiculous. That’s works.
- Trent
You really did a good job with this video. You handle it in a mature professional way. Not like Jacksmack 77.
Thanks Andrew. We try to be considerate of the person. The doctrine they teach needs to be attacked because it is leading people to hell. We try to keep in mind that the person needs to be reached because they are only deceived. Thank you.
- Trent
then why do we sing Jesus paid it all if he only paid for some? that would be hypocritical but we do sing Jesus paid it all because he paid for all of it
Why do you think the KJV is the best translation? Do you have formal training in Greek? It's one of the least accurate translations we have.
Why do you say it's the least accurate? Older is not better by any means, but there is authenticity behind the KJV.
Every new translation has to also change like 10% because of copyright laws.
Nevertheless, we believe the KJV ultimately because it adheres best to the close to original manuscripts we have. It also preaches the clear gospel congruently through the entirety. In ESV, NIV, NASB and others, they change certain texts to fit a doctrinal viewpoint.
One such place is 1 John 3. The change is egregious. See poieo vs prasso in the Greek.
- Trent
How can you possibly reconcile revelation 14: 11-12? It is impossible, if the saints were saved and always saved! This passage is known as the perseverance of the saints passage. The saints who take the mark are forsakers of the faith and therfore did not have the faith and will be thrown in the lake of fire. They were never saved even though they were called saints. Like Christians who you would say once were believers and will always be saved but now put there faith in Islam. These are the ones that were never saved because if there faith was genuine; then its impossible to fall away!! Once saved always saved is conditioned on remaining in Christ. There are many passages that mention people falling away and especially in end times. If you have faith in the unseen and Jesus and you can renounce then you did not have faith.
He is not a free gracer which means he gets to fear the Lord
Hey Bibleline, why did my response to Brian Seay get deleted?
Nothing has been deleted and you are not hidden from the channel. Thanks. - Jesse
@@BibleLineThat is not true. My comments have been deleted several times.
Hey, it’s the editor here. We really aren’t deleting your comments. UA-cam is crazy finicky about this. Are you commenting 10x a minute?? Or are you relaying personal info? Perhaps spam? Idk… we don’t care to delete comments. Thanks
- Trent
Mike Winger doesn’t believe in works based salvation, neither do most Christians. Works do not add up to faith, but, if one truly believes IN (not mere knowledge like demons have) Jesus, they will not walk in unrepentant sin-they will hate the sin, and strive to overcome it through the power of the Holy Spirit. Struggling with sin does not equate to willfully sinning.
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” Hebrews 10:26
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”- Matt 7:21
Yes, we have seen Mike speak very clearly about salvation, and he definitely does not put works on the front end. The demons do only acknowledge the truth, but Jesus didn't die for them anyway.
We agree that the initial starting point is faith alone in Christ alone. Cool. The point of contention (and where some get confusing) is this: Can a believer in Christ willfully sin? Is service somewhat automatic in the life of the believer in that he WILL (as you say) hate the sin and strive to overcome?
Hebrews 10:26 has a context that is not saying anything about loss of salvation or an unproved salvation. The point of that chapter (and book really) is that Jesus has made the full payment through his sacrifice, and therefore no more sacrifice is needed. Verse 26 is actually pointing toward the fact that the believer has eternal security, but through willful sin he can be greatly chastened or taken out of this world.
Matthew 7:21 also has a context. Those who say Lord, Lord actually back up their claims with "many wonderful works." Therefore, if anyone has "genuineness" it is those people. They never had FAITH in Jesus as their Savior (which we agree is the starting point). God does not look at a person's works at the end of their life to determine if they are saved. At that judgment, he points out the fact that he "never knew" them because they never believed. They never became a part of God's family, nor were they sealed by the Spirit.
Can a believer willfully sin? Yes. Should he? NO! If he does, what happens? Chastening from God, but not hellfire.
Are works automatic in some fashion in the life of the believer? NO! Should works be done? YES! What happens to the believer that does not have a genuine and profitable faith? Chastening, and no one is profited from him. Nevertheless, he still believed, and he is saved.
- Trent
let it be known i do not willfully walk in sin as that is foolish why would i want to do the thing that is taking my life
I think maybe you're both talking about two different things. It seems Mike Winger is talking about the state of one's soul as evidenced by the way someone lives. We can look at people who we once knew to be a Christian who has now left the church, doesn't invest their time in the Lord, lives in a constantly sinful lifestyle and then guess that the individual has fallen away (rejecting God in their heart). You, pastor, seem to be talking about how salvation isn't achieved through works. Of course we'll never be free from sin until we leave this earth and Jesus paid for every ounce of it, but that also doesn't give us free license to go live how we want. So I think the question Mike was trying to answer (and yes, he probably didn't quite hit the mark in the way he explained it) was, "How do I know if I've fallen away from Christ?" - which, honestly, I feel that if you're asking that question, you're probably worrying needlessly. Still, there is a need to walk in obedience if you recognize sin in your own life and then come to repentance. It's that process of sanctification.
Correction you don't walk in your spirit you walk in the spirit of Jesus
Sure, Gal. 5:16-23
- Trent
Mike Winger if you want to "unfuzzy" the 2 groups look at the fruit, that's what Jesus said. Also Jesus tells us the 2 lines that false christians cross in the parable of the sower.